Fanfic that's out in left field? by DeSangro

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Fanfic that's out in left field?

POSTED BY: DESANGRO
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 07:17
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VIEWED: 3103
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Monday, September 29, 2003 1:34 PM

Recently I came across a couple of NC-17 rated stories on 'the Cortex' that featured, and I quote from the summary: "crazy space incest."
Are these stories about River and Simon? Say it ain't so!

I would hate to see Firefly fanfics devolve into a whole lot of PWP ("Porn Without Plot") that is tasteless and betrays the personalities of the characters. Simon and River had a sweet and caring relationship, and it was one of the things I found most touching and interesting about the show.

Does anybody have any thoughts about keeping characters "in-character" while writing fanfic? And basically this is what I posted then deleted in the Episode Discussions List.

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Monday, September 29, 2003 3:24 PM

SHEWHOHATHAPEN

The CSI is most definitely about Simon and River. Threw me when I first heard about it, as well. Simon and River's sibling relationship was and is something that really speaks to me. And while CSI still squicks me, I've read a few fics that have convinced me of its plausiblity within the context of those fics (though, notably, only from River's end).

As far as Firefly fanfiction devolving into lots of tasteless, character-assasinating PWP...

Fanfic is an interesting thing. There's always going to be stuff that's gospel to some and blasphemy to others; tasteless porn to some, evocative romance to others. Different people look and see different things.

My approach is to follow along after what stood out to me in those fifteen precious hours. That gives me, personally, more than enough that I find interesting and intriguing and provocative to play with. Other things stood out to other people and they play with that. And if I ever want to diverge from what I see as established I make sure that I am convinced, in my own mind, that whatever it is that I want to happen could feasibly happen.

After that all I can do is write and hope that I did a good enough job to convince someone else.

So, I suppose my answer to the question of keeping characters IC while writing fanfic is: I'm all for it. I do that to the best of my ability, but I also realize that my perception and other people's perceptions may not be in synch. So sometimes I read stuff and I don't think it works. Other times I'm awakened to a new perspective and the fact that it has some merit.

In the end, unless Joss decides to start editing all Firefly fanfic and as such forcing us to accept the validity of everything that makes it up, everybody's going to have aspects of fics somewhere of which they cannot accept the legitimacy.

Such is how it is when people have free will and opinions and stuff.

---
"I'm very sorry if she tipped off anyone about your cunningly concealed herd of cows."

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Tuesday, September 30, 2003 4:47 AM

DESANGRO

Thanks for your literate and thought-provoking comments, SheWhoHathAPen. I haven't written any Firefly fics (YET!) but with me being a prolific reader and writer, I probably will.

CSI being from River's perspective....hmm, well we all know that River's perception of reality is drastically warped, but I still find it difficult to believe she'd do or feel something like that. (Then again, I am not a mind-reading teenage girl, so I could wrong.) Personally I think River is (for now) so messed up that whatever sexuality she had (or has) has been consumed by her illness. And I still don't think Simon would do anything like CSI.

"My heart bleeds for you." --Citizen Capt. De Sangro, to Citizen First Lieutenant Timmons.

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Tuesday, September 30, 2003 6:41 AM

LJC

I admit, I was squicked by the CSI as well, when it first surfaced in discussions after "Safe" aired.

But given how River has spent her teenage years, and how muddled her emerging sexuality may be, and how close she and Simon are (he is the only man in her life whom she trusts and loves implicitedly, and who gives her unwavering and unconditional love in return) and what place he has in her life, when written *well* and taking into account the incredible *wrongness* of it (rather than played as erotica meant to turn the reader on) I think it can be fascinating to read and not too far off from the characters we saw on TV ever week.

Especially given the scene that was cut from "Our Mrs. Reynolds" (which involves River demanding Book marry her and Simon--which horrifies and bewilders Simon). Though the scene is played for laughs, I was surprised at how much sense it made, given River's mental state at the time.

While I cannot usually "see" Simon ever willingly taking part, I *can* easily see River blurring the lines between eros and agape. She's 17 years old, her hormones are raging, but her socilisation is 4 years behind her peers, and warped by years of torture. Not to mention, she's at the mercy of those around her until she learns to filter out their thoughts and emotions.

But played as straight erotica? ick ick ick. No way. But the opportunity for character study do interest me as a reader and writer (tho my own one tiny foray into the CSI subgenre is only nominally so--as it deals with River's jealousy of Simon and Kaylee's relationship).

P.S. "PWP" actually stands for "Plot? What plot?"

--
Some take the high road. Some take the low road.
And some just go screaming down the highway, dropping flaming bits of wreckage.

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Tuesday, September 30, 2003 9:45 AM

NSEN

Please excuse me if I'm repeating some of what's already been said here, but... Personally, I think that what makes a fanfic writer is their ability to take the characters new places, whilst still keeping those characters 'in character', so to speak. Not changing the characters' personalities, but putting new perspectives on them. Therefore, if a writer could write a CSI fic and still sensibly justify it from the perspectives of the characters involved, then I think it's all cool. It's usually not what you do, but how you do it, and all that jazz. (But River/Simon played as straight erotica would still creep me the hell out, though.)

Regarding River, well - given some of the stuff she's been through, the concept of incest almost seems mild in comparison.

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Wednesday, January 21, 2004 7:17 AM

NUR

I came to the world of Firefly very late, my first episode ever was Ariel (still one of my favourites to this day) and at the very end, I could have sworn that Simon said "No baby, its time to wake up." At first I was just shocked, but then I realized that this is a Joss-world and stranger things have happened. As I watched more and more episodes there were times when I was sure there was an intentional incest vibe coming off the two of them, but at others I was reminded of my own brother and I.

I think that regardless of what your individual view is of the relationshiop between Simon and River there are always going to be people who see something differnt in a particular phrase, moment, scene than you did (or like me who just plain didn't hear properly and had thier whole vision shapped by it), and there are always going to be people who write fanfic about what they see and what they would like to see, be it incest or love between siblings.

I myself so far have 3 Firefly fics to my name, all focused on Simon and River just because, to me, they are the most interesting, involved characters to play with. One is cannon, plain and simple, because from watching the show it can't be denied that Simon feels that its his purpose to watch over and care for River before all other loyalties. The 2 others however are of a more CSI type. I will admit to a bit of a cop out, I wrote them as not being brother and sister just because I was icked. Its one thing to read it and think 'oh, ok, yeah' its quite another to write it yourself.

There is always more that one option, and I think that fanfic is a place where all the options, all the visions, and all the different possibilites can be expressed. You can take a small thing and let it grow and maybe it makes people look at thier favourite characters in a different light, or maybe it makes them enjoy a character they didn't really like before, or maybe its just a PWP, but that is the beauty of fanfiction. It can be whatever the author wants it to. So maybe that is CSI, and thats fine; or maybe its familial love outshining everything else, and thats fine too.

I agree completely with you Nsen, straight Simon/River erotica is just creepifying. There (for myself anyway) needs to be some rationalle, an explanation of what led to the CSI because that is the good part, thats the part that I want to read. The reasons, the emotions, the series of decisions that end up taking them to that place.

If you haven't ever read a CSI story, you might want to consider it, if for nothing but the experience of someone else's view. Hopefully you find a good one (because like all other pairings there are some wonderful ones and some that are just god-awful).

Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained.
-William Blake

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