GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

The Firefly Curse???

POSTED BY: MICRONAUT
UPDATED: Monday, December 18, 2006 23:46
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Monday, December 18, 2006 4:02 AM

MICRONAUT


The Curse of Joss Whedon's Firefly?

I've noticed something... it seems that practically every series that Joss Whedon - along with many of the actors - has been involved with since the demise of Firefly has bit the dust... think I'm kidding? Let's take a look...

Firefly was axed in late 2002 (although most would argue its fate was determined right from the beginning)... look what happened to the shows associated with the principles thereafter:

Joss Whedon - His other series, Angel, was axed 2 years later... and despite massive fan support, the Big Damn Movie "Serenity" under-performed at the box office... very, very strange...

Tim Minear - Second only to Joss in involvement (wrote 4 eps, directed 2, also exec. prod.), he was also involved with Angel (axed), Wonderfalls (axed), The Inside (axed), and Standoff (not looking good). Tim... your next show Drive is not in a good place...

Ben Edlund - Another bigwig... his own series, The Tick, was axed prematurely (prior to FF), but he was also involved with Angel and Point Pleasent, which was also axed. Fortunately, he's sticking with writing for now...

Nathan Fillion - Miss Match (axed), Alligator Point (still born), Buffy (dead), Pasadena (dead), next up, a show called "Drive" with Tim Minear, which I don't give good odds for survival. Scarily, he's also appeared on Lost... what's up with that?

Gina Torres - Although she has had more luck than most ex-FF alumni, she has her share of dead shows, including Angel, The Guardian (she appeared in 2 eps in the show in 2003 and bam! that was the last season for it), then she made some return appearences on Alias in 2005 and 2006, and then suddenly, that show was cancelled too! She's also in Standoff... another bad sign for the show...

Alan Tudyk - He's avoided TV for the most part, but he did make one appearence in Arrested Development - boom... the show's next season's episode order was cut in half, and not much later, the series was axed...

Morena Baccarin - A serious body count behind this beauty... Still Life didn't make it out of the gate... Kitchen Confidential, also starring Nicholas Brendon from Joss Whedon's Buffy, featured her on one episode, and then it was axed too... then she became a semi-regular on Stargate SG-1, and out of the blue, the longest running US sci-fi show, the one that had survived at least 3 previous assassination attempts, was suddenly dead in the water!

Adam Baldwin - This man needs a new career... Aside from Firefly, he was featured in Angel (dead), Stargate SG-1 (dying), a lead in The Inside (dead), and most recently, Day Break, which is now more like "Day Broken"...

Jewel Staite - Pretty and talented, she too is a killer... one appearence in "Dead Like Me" and the show is "dead like so many others"... Then came Wonderfalls, which went over the edge without a barrel... Then Huff, which was huffed and puffed and blown out... and now she's set to be on Stargate Atlantis for the 3rd season - so much for that show!

Sean Maher - Aside from a couple minor appearences on TV, he's avoid that side of the industry... an lo and behold! nothing he's been on has been cancelled! Coincidence? I think not...!

Summer Glau - She, admittedly, is the exception to the Firefly rule... nothing she's been on has suddenly been cancelled... but, with recurring roles on The 4400 and The Unit, her influence may only just be starting...

and finally...

Ron Glass - Another who has been busy avoiding TV, but he did appear in The Division and it soon died... Now, he's been in Shark... and we all know what happened to Jaws...

So there you have it... the Firefly curse! Meta-physics or manifestation, you decide... But, like most curses, there is a way to reverse it... bring back Firefly! That's it... the show was unjustly cancelled and it's ghost is haunting the TV industry through the survivors...

To the Producers out there in TV land, this ghost will spread until it kills your show too... so let Fox and Universal know the truth - to appease the ghost, the show must go on... Do it! Before it's too late!







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Monday, December 18, 2006 5:03 AM

CANTER


Hang on...

Shouldn't a curse hit the ones responsible for the cursed deed? Curses are suppose to be the repercussion of evil deeds, right?

So, shouldn't there be a Fox executive wandering around aimlessly somewhere, desperately unable to make a single show work? His eyes haunted by the horror of never being able to succeed again... Doomed to linger on the fringes of the entertainment industry, forever unable to grasp again the power and glory of a hit show!

Until of course he convinces his previous bosses (He would have had to be fired in the meantime for blind stupidity) to bring back Firefly!

Oh, the joy of fantasies......




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Monday, December 18, 2006 5:19 AM

DARKFLY


You do realize only a few tv shows are actually popular especially the type our BigDamnHereos are in.

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Monday, December 18, 2006 5:26 AM

XGETAWAYXCAR09


Summer Glau recently appeared on the show "Supernatural" in an episode (forgotten the title) and I doubt that show is going to get canceled for a long long time. And also I think Ben Edlund wrote one of Season two episodes, "Simon Said" I believe it is called. One of the best episodes as told by fans of the show also. Supernatural has been compared to "Buffy" and "X-files" so it looks like some people from Firefly have a chance again. Sorry if any of this has been repeated before but I just registered so I havent been able to look everything over yet.


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Monday, December 18, 2006 5:42 AM

MICRONAUT


I have noticed that a lot of the shows the BDH are in are often of the more intellectual and/or offbeat types... and for some reason, many are also on Fox... so, let's see... BDH + smart show + on Fox = cancellation... yep, sounds like the formula...

Quote:

Originally posted by Darkfly:
You do realize only a few tv shows are actually popular especially the type our BigDamnHereos are in.

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Monday, December 18, 2006 6:00 AM

MICRONAUT


I hope Supernatural lasts... it does have a lot of potential, and I certainly would love to have more of the BigDamnHeroes appear on it (or other Vancouver shot shows, like Stargate, Galactica, Smallville, 4400, Dead Zone... the shows all have a good "feel" about them, a certain positive curse-breaking grittiness that a lot of Hollywood shows just can't mimic... other Vancouver shows like X-Files, Outer Limits, Dark Angel, Tru Calling, Dead Like Me, Millennium, Three Moons over Milford, Masters of Horror, even Highlander and Andromeda, all had that same certain look...).

But, Supernatural is also on a tiny network, a lot like Fox was in the early days... despite it being a great show, don't count on it lasting forever...

Quote:

Originally posted by xgetawayxcar09:
Summer Glau recently appeared on the show "Supernatural" in an episode (forgotten the title) and I doubt that show is going to get canceled for a long long time. And also I think Ben Edlund wrote one of Season two episodes, "Simon Said" I believe it is called. One of the best episodes as told by fans of the show also. Supernatural has been compared to "Buffy" and "X-files" so it looks like some people from Firefly have a chance again. Sorry if any of this has been repeated before but I just registered so I havent been able to look everything over yet.


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Monday, December 18, 2006 7:37 AM

KELAI


Summer appeared on Supernatural? When? The last time someone told me that it wwas just a rumour. And so I missed it.

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Monday, December 18, 2006 8:04 AM

ZZETTA13


I submit to you that all the actors should be signed to a new show called "Cursed" or maybe CITV ( Cursed in the Verse ) about a spacecraft with a nine member crew. This ship travels on the edge of a newly found galaxy hiding from the evil Lord Ming (sorry wrong show)

Anyhoo, each week television viewers can tune in and watch the adventures of "Cursed" and just for a tid bit I include with this post a little scene for the show.

Captain on the bridge " I didn't think TransU-s still operated?"

Pilot " They don't. See that.It's their magnetic grappler.They get a hold of us with that we're....Who are those people?

Captain " Oh My Gosh F*x exects!! They get a hold of us we're goners!! H.W. turn the ship around!!

Z

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Monday, December 18, 2006 8:30 AM

STORYMARK


I think it has more to do with TV being a harsh industry, where anything that does not have instant success is doomed.

It only seems so prevalent fior our BDH becuase we follow them sooooo closely. And, because there are so many of them (9 cast members, plus the writing staff) spread out acrtoss the industry now. Statistically speaking, if all of them were to find new work post FF (as they seem to have) most of those shows would be cancelled now anyway, regardless of where we knew them from.

Look up the cast of some other cancelled show. Chances are, they all have a list of failed or almos-ran shows, too. You just havn't noticed because you don't track their careers.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, December 18, 2006 8:55 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Canter:
So, shouldn't there be a Fox executive wandering around aimlessly somewhere, desperately unable to make a single show work?

Thus the "glory" of the film industry: if you work behind the scenes, you can be wildly "successful" (in terms of wealth and inside-the-industry fame) without ever actually producing anything.

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Monday, December 18, 2006 9:11 AM

KURYA


Um...as others have pointed out, its just the nature of the industry... if you look at the start of a new season how many "new shows" are put onto the airwaves.... after thbe midway point how many of those new shows are around, and at the end of the season how many less has remained. Thats just how it is, only a few shows make it, and even then, they may last 1-2 seasons... oh and dont forget that there is a huge amount of pilots that are shot, but not picked up
And sean maher? look at his imdb profile pre-firefly... he was in 3 cancelled shows before... I think...
Prakash

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Monday, December 18, 2006 9:41 AM

JUNIPERJAYNE


I agree. Unlike the tv of my parents' generation, today it's all about the most amount of money you can make the quickest - at least that's what it seems like to me. Make lots of money immediately, then you continue the show.

It's like the Oscars and the Emmys and such - tv execs are out of touch with what people really like.

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Monday, December 18, 2006 9:45 AM

MICRONAUT


I think my original point was, despite our following of the BDH respective careers so closely and despite TV being a harsh industry, there seems to be an inordinant amount of disaster attached to some of these folks in the post-Firefly TV world...

I'm not saying that statistically there is anything to this "curse" concept (it's way too early to make that connection), but rather that on a cursory level, there does seem to be a trend. I noticed this the other day when Day Break was cancelled - boom, another Firefly alumni is out of work... and when the announcement of Tim Minear and Nathan Fillion's new series came across the 'Net, I found myself wondering how long this one would last. So, I looked up some resumes and did a little cross-checking, and it does seem that when it comes to TV, our heroes are indeed Browncoats, with all that the appellation entails...

Hopefully, this is not the case... at least not for long. I'd still love to see a direct to DVD series... if B5 and Stargate can go direct to DVD, if more shows than ever can be seen through iTunes, if DVD sales are making most of Hollywood's money, then there is hope that someone will see that there is still life in the old ship...


Quote:

Originally posted by kurya:
Um...as others have pointed out, its just the nature of the industry... if you look at the start of a new season how many "new shows" are put onto the airwaves.... after thbe midway point how many of those new shows are around, and at the end of the season how many less has remained. Thats just how it is, only a few shows make it, and even then, they may last 1-2 seasons... oh and dont forget that there is a huge amount of pilots that are shot, but not picked up
And sean maher? look at his imdb profile pre-firefly... he was in 3 cancelled shows before... I think...
Prakash



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Monday, December 18, 2006 10:05 AM

STORYMARK


But our point is, it only seems like an inordinate ammount because you (and the rest of us) are paying so much attention to them. The casts of other cancelled shows don't seem to have such a bad track record because you aren't paying any attention to them.

Look up Robert Urich's resume of cancelled shows. No one from our 'verse is in his ballpark in that regard.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, December 18, 2006 10:40 AM

MICRONAUT


Robert Urich was also around for a looooong time... he's bound to have a few dead shows... as will most actors after a while... but Firefly has been off the air for only 4 years... and by my count (admittedly, a little weighted in one direction), the cast plus three crew have racked up 18 kills between them in that time... that's a lot of dead shows for only 12 people...

So, the thing would be to compare the cast list from some other 4 years dead show and see if those survivors have left a similar body count behind after only 4 years... any suggestions? Are there any other curses out there?


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
But our point is, it only seems like an inordinate ammount because you (and the rest of us) are paying so much attention to them. The casts of other cancelled shows don't seem to have such a bad track record because you aren't paying any attention to them.

Look up Robert Urich's resume of cancelled shows. No one from our 'verse is in his ballpark in that regard.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."



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Monday, December 18, 2006 10:47 AM

STORYMARK


Yes, but some that you count were pre- Firefly, so don't really apply. And others were ended intentionally, rather than cancelled (like Buffy). That makes the actual number a whole lot more resonable. Adding in one-off appearances on other shows makes the number even iffier (like Alan on Arrested Development - if you're going to count shows that are eventually cancelled later, then you my as well count every job they ever get, becuase they will eventually end).

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, December 18, 2006 10:54 AM

HUGHFF


Also, let's face it, a single appearance as a guest is a bit statistically unfair.

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Monday, December 18, 2006 11:19 AM

MICRONAUT


Ahh... well, part of the mystique of a "curse" is that it causes damage near and far, both subtle and gross... my logic (if I actually employed any in the writing of the original post, which, I admit, was somewhat tongue-in-cheek) is that the whims of the "curse" have caused more damage than normal chance and fate... For example, Buffy may have ended by choice, but there were rumors of an eigth season reprieve before the final axe fell (Charmed for example, was over at the end of the 7th season, yet, was pulled - mistakenly, if you ask me - out of the firing line for an eigth season; Stargate was axed several times, yet kept coming back; Arrested Development was kicked around like a junkyard mongrel, yet managed to survive anyway) - however, when the alums of FF became involved, then the curse took over and the fate of the show was sealed... Who knows... maybe Buffy would have had another season or two if the Firefly curse hadn't affected it... Maybe Stargate would have gone for an 11th season if the curse hadn't shut down their wormhole... maybe Wonderfalls would still be going if the Firefly curse hadn't shut off the waterworks... Maybe Summer's involvement hasn't killed any shows yet... but if there is a Firefly curse, then maybe the writing is on the wall for both The 4400 and The Unit...

That's the nature of curses... they are mean, whimsical spirits... sparing one, while slaying another... and they can only be appeased by righting the wrong that created them...

Now, if only we can get some executives to believe this...



Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Yes, but some that you count were pre- Firefly, so don't really apply. And others were ended intentionally, rather than cancelled (like Buffy). That makes the actual number a whole lot more resonable. Adding in one-off appearances on other shows makes the number even iffier (like Alan on Arrested Development - if you're going to count shows that are eventually cancelled later, then you my as well count every job they ever get, becuase they will eventually end).

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."



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Monday, December 18, 2006 11:52 AM

THATWENTWELL


Interesting thread.... not because I believe there is a Firefly curse, but because I think we have hit on the primary reason many of us are here. Regular network programming is a wasteland, at least for me. Someone said the networks are out of touch with what the masses want. Well... I do not consider us, at least from an entertainment standpoint, to be part of the masses. Firefly might have never appealed to the masses. It was too intelligent, too deep, at once both tragic and comical and the characters were sometimes heros, sometimes villains, always unpredictable, much like real life don't ya think. I believe the actors were more like us as well and got caught up in the stories they were telling. That and sites like this serve to keep it alive. Nothing would tickle me more than to see the o-cast return for a renewal of the series. Failing that a movie to DVD deal or some such... hey, how long has Star Trek survived? The o-cast was making movies LONG after the series was over. Keep hope alive...

Morbid and Creepifyin I got no problem with...

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Monday, December 18, 2006 12:07 PM

STORYMARK


I wouldn't say all network TV is a wasteland. Lots of it, sure, but that's always been the case, and always will be. If you factor cable series into the mix, I think that TV is as good now, or better, than it's been in my lifetime.

I can think of close to a dozen high-quality shows that have been airing new episodes in the last year, and there are a lot of shows that I hear great things about that I just have not had the time to check out.

Off the top of my head, I consider these all to be very good, if not top-quality shows: Battlestar Galactica(my fav right now), Deadwood (recently ended , though not cancelled), Sopranos, The Shield, Rescue Me, Bones, Heroes, Studio 60, Rome, and South Park (still great). That's just off the top of my head, and doesn't count shows I havn't really seen (or don't watch regularly) like Lost, Nip/Tuck, Dexter, The Wire, 24, Big Love, Weeds, Veronica Mars, Ugle Beatty and Dr. Who.

Sure, not all of those shows are going to appeal to everyone, and there's still no shortage of crap (but remember the old rule: 90% of everything is crap), but there's a lot of good stuff out there, if you have the time to watch it. Or do like me - skip it all and get it on Netflix.

But I think it's a pretty damned good time for TV. It'd be all the better if Firefly were still flying, but it could be a lot worse.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, December 18, 2006 2:23 PM

XGETAWAYXCAR09


Summer Glau did appear on Supernatural. She appeared in Children Shouldnt Play With Dead Things. It was rumored that she was going to play the evil baddie that was going to get killed off, but she didnt. She acted instead as the roomate of the evil baddie :)



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Monday, December 18, 2006 2:49 PM

TRAVELER


I have to admit I am not an expert. I have noticed that most shows do not make it past the first season. If a show lasts four seasons I call it a success. Shows like "Married With Children" and "The Simpsons" are rare.

Our good friend who played Badger is getting a reocurring role on the successful "Medium". I suspect his last showing was also his final showing. But he was on three times. More than he was on Firefly. This was also a prime role in each episode.


Traveler

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Monday, December 18, 2006 3:06 PM

AIYANOODLE


Actually, Summer wasn't the roommate on Supernatural. She wasn't in the episode at all. No idea why she was listed as being on the show.

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Monday, December 18, 2006 6:41 PM

MICRONAUT


When I wrote about this curse of Firefly, I only considered the nine leads and three of the top crew... despite Mark Sheppard's memorable performance as Badger, I didn't think that he had been involved enough to soak up the true power of the Firefly curse...

Same goes for Christina "Saffron" Hendricks... memorable appearences, but not around long enough to be damaged...

Now Jonathan M. Woodward is another story... he's been involved with Joss's projects for a while... Buffy, Angel, and Firefly... so it is possible that he is partly cursed...

I'm telling ya people, there is a curse, and the only way to break it is to bring Firefly back...


Quote:

Originally posted by traveler:
I have to admit I am not an expert. I have noticed that most shows do not make it past the first season. If a show lasts four seasons I call it a success. Shows like "Married With Children" and "The Simpsons" are rare.

Our good friend who played Badger is getting a reocurring role on the successful "Medium". I suspect his last showing was also his final showing. But he was on three times. More than he was on Firefly. This was also a prime role in each episode.



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Monday, December 18, 2006 6:45 PM

DREAMWALKER


I think for any show with our BDH that makes Fox and gets canceled we need to take into consideration that it's not our BDH that are cursed, it's any show on Fox that shows the slightest hint of being intelligent. Seriously 99.9% of what is on Fox I will not watch. And given that Bones is a very intelligent and enjoyable show on Fox I fear for its future. So if there is a curse out there it's the curse of Fox that spread to our BDH.

Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: Oh God, of God, we're all going to die?

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Monday, December 18, 2006 11:46 PM

DARKFLY


Quote:

Originally posted by xgetawayxcar09:
Summer Glau recently appeared on the show "Supernatural" in an episode (forgotten the title) and I doubt that show is going to get canceled for a long long time. And also I think Ben Edlund wrote one of Season two episodes, "Simon Said" I believe it is called. One of the best episodes as told by fans of the show also. Supernatural has been compared to "Buffy" and "X-files" so it looks like some people from Firefly have a chance again. Sorry if any of this has been repeated before but I just registered so I havent been able to look everything over yet.

I'm sorry to dissapoint but Summer wasn't in a Supernatural episode,well she was supposed to make a guest appearence in one episode but pulled out because of another another program.

---------------------------
Wash: Hey, I've been in a firefight before! Well, I was in a fire. Actually, I was fired from a fry-cook opportunity. I can handle myself.



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Vote for Summer Glau(remember case sensitive) at http://www.kolumbus.fi/raine.maattanen/final_cut/

Go to

to see my cool trailer.

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