GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

River's birthday is next week!

POSTED BY: STEAMER
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 19:14
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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 3:20 PM

STEAMER


According to a thread in the FFF community on Live Journal:

http://community.livejournal.com/fireflyfans/882744.html

Linked from this thread is an Alliance data file on our favourite psych-chick:



The headers are hard to read and probably written in Chinese, but it seems reasonable to assume that the field printed "19dec00" denotes River's date of birth. That being the case, the vestigial mode of time measurement based on solar cycles when she comes into the 'verse will be precisely 494 years from tomorrow! We celebrated Mal's birthday, I say we do the same for River. Who's in?

*saves data-file image as it will make a VERY shiny fanfic reference*



When shooting hoodlums
You don't need
To open eyes
If you can read
FIREFLY

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 3:55 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Oh, me! Let's celebrate her birthday crazy-style, with lots of jacks and stuff!

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 5:24 PM

KELAI


We can rubsoup in each others hair! Or we can blow everything up.

--

//breathe today So many lies s w i r l i n g
All A R O U N D You
you're S U F F O C A T I N G
the e m p t y shape in Y O U
s t e a l s your b r e a t h

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 5:46 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Quote:

Originally posted by Kelai:
We can rubsoup in each others hair! Or we can blow everything up.



Let's do the soup thing. It's always a hoot, and nobody dies from it.

---
Forsaken Lurker

http://www.wunschliste.de/index.pl?vote&r=09 - Vote Firefly (but only once a week, so they all count)!

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:25 PM

MARINA


For sure.

Point of interest: what do you think 04jun18 stands for? couldn't be her intake date, as that would make her almost 18...

EDIT: perhaps the date this report was generated? if it were produced for the operative, for instance, we'd be close to 18 years from what we're proposing as her birthday, yeah?

Don't make faces.

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:44 PM

STEAMER


Makes sense, Marina. "Our Mrs. Reynolds" took place about mid/late October, so the following June would give us the eight months Simon had her aboard the boat, knowin' full well she could....ehh, you know the rest. Too bad one would need a spectrograph to read those field headers.

A week from tonight, I just hope my unconscious mind cooperates and allows me to give River a new pair of boots and dance to "Crazy Love" in my feverish Firefly dreams.



Calm is River
Scared is Jayne
"I can kill you
With my brain."
FIREFLY

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:53 PM

MARINA


I think that works, your birthdate and the report generator-date, because it says Simon broke her out "in 2516" (we gotta give them a little bit of leeway in terms of months and such).

Which brings us to 22aug15. The only other (I think?) date on the sheet.

Theories?

Don't make faces.

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:58 PM

STEAMER


The day River arrived at the Academy. It says in the block of text below that she entered the Academy some time that year.

I'm goin' to bed.

(Christmas shopping for the fam, birthday shopping for River....glad I ain't Simon....)



River grabbed
The gun and
Dropped three
"No power
In the 'verse
Can stop me!"
FIREFLY

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 9:00 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Steamer:

According to a thread in the FFF community on Live Journal:

http://community.livejournal.com/fireflyfans/882744.html

Linked from this thread is an Alliance data file on our favourite psych-chick:






Wow! This is like a huge archeological find. :) I'm unclear about its 'canon-value', so to speak (where do these datapads come from?). But if it's really canon, then it would be major.

Quote:



The headers are hard to read and probably written in Chinese, but it seems reasonable to assume that the field printed "19dec00" denotes River's date of birth. That being the case, the vestigial mode of time measurement based on solar cycles when she comes into the 'verse will be precisely 494 years and one week from to-day! We celebrated Mal's birthday, I say we do the same for River. Who's in?




"Area 54". Cute. :) Of particular interest to me, is that this document finally divulges the location of where River was being held. It says: "Subject was removed without authorization from Area 54 in 2516." And we read:

Project oracle
Alliance research facility 54
Osiris 0A2 54W013

Osiris it is, then (*snif*, there goes my theory of it being Ariel).

En passant we also learn that the Academy was called "Osiris school for the gifted."

I concur, "19dec00" has to be River's birthday. There are two other dates: "22aug15" and "04jun18". If we do the math, then the first, "22aug15", has to be the date River went to the Academy. That would make her EXACTLY still fourteen when she entered! (sic!)

Simon rescued her in 2516. We can reasonably assume late 2516, as it's doubtful he would be lugging around that huge box for all too long (he boards Serenity in 2517). And "04jun18" is likely the date of the time the Operative is holding the datapad (= when the BDM plays).

The latter gives more clues as to another important question: how long time elapsed between Firefly and Serenity? At least the BDM cannot take place much before June 04, 2018. That's interesting enough information by itself.

Still working from the assumption that Simon rescued River late 2516 (and, conversely, that he entered Serenity early 2517), then he and his sister must have been on Serenity for 'bout one-and-a-half year already. That clashes with Captain's "Eight months. Eight months, you had her on my boat." Unless Simon boarded Serenity only late 2517 (Rhyianan rather convincingly argued that the Eavesdown docks scene seems to take place around Fall). But that would mean Simon has been hauling his box around/been in transit for a good ten months! I still say it's got to be early 2517. And that Kaylee's "We're going on a year now" is the most accurate (if by that she meant: them all together as a crew -- at least with her and Simon and River still onboard).

I'm stumped by the "New Providence" reference, though. A quick google search seems to refer to some sort of Space Station in RPG (?). Presumably where Dr. Mathias worked.

Fascininating stuff. Thank you for posting it.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:00 AM

ASARIAN


*bumpity*

Good River stuff in here.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:01 AM

MARINA


For some reason I thought she had been at the academy much longer than ~1 year (re: aug15 and Simon's escape date)... Can't place the quote or the reference, though

Don't make faces.

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:35 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:
Still working from the assumption that Simon rescued River late 2516 (and, conversely, that he entered Serenity early 2517), then he and his sister must have been on Serenity for 'bout one-and-a-half year already. That clashes with Captain's "Eight months. Eight months, you had her on my boat." Unless Simon boarded Serenity only late 2517 (Rhyianan rather convincingly argued that the Eavesdown docks scene seems to take place around Fall).

"Fall" would happen at different times on different planets. Plus Mal has already established that he can't tell time. ("You said three weeks!" "That was six months ago, captain.")

Quote:

And that Kaylee's "We're going on a year now" is the most accurate (if by that she meant: them all together as a crew -- at least with her and Simon and River still onboard).
The "goin' on a year now" was just how long it's been since she got any, wasn't it?

Quote:

I'm stumped by the "New Providence" reference, though.
New Providence could well be a town or city where (it seems, from placement on the form) River was born. Remember: planets are big. You can't just say "I'm from Londinium" and expect people to be able to get in touch with your family, birth-hospital, and house.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:44 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by marina:

For some reason I thought she had been at the academy much longer than ~1 year (re: aug15 and Simon's escape date)...




You'd think so. But Aug 22, 2515 definitely is the right date when River went to the Academy (and corroborrated: "She was fourteen," Simon says in the pilot). And the year 2517 is written on the screen at the start of the series. And, come to think of it, if the BDM takes place around June 4, 2518, then River is also STILL "a traumatized seventeen-year-old girl" at the time. It all fits. Hail to Joss' astounding sense of detail!

EDIT: I must have been blind all along, as I missed the first part of the sentence which says: "In 2515, her family sent her to the Osiris school for the gifted." So, Aug 22, 2515, without doubt, is the date she went to the Academy.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 10:00 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:

Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:

Still working from the assumption that Simon rescued River late 2516 (and, conversely, that he entered Serenity early 2517), then he and his sister must have been on Serenity for 'bout one-and-a-half year already. That clashes with Captain's "Eight months. Eight months, you had her on my boat." Unless Simon boarded Serenity only late 2517 (Rhyianan rather convincingly argued that the Eavesdown docks scene seems to take place around Fall).

"Fall" would happen at different times on different planets. Plus Mal has already established that he can't tell time. ("You said three weeks!" "That was six months ago, captain.")

Quote:

And that Kaylee's "We're going on a year now" is the most accurate (if by that she meant: them all together as a crew -- at least with her and Simon and River still onboard).
The "goin' on a year now" was just how long it's been since she got any, wasn't it?

Quote:

I'm stumped by the "New Providence" reference, though.
New Providence could well be a town or city where (it seems, from placement on the form) River was born. Remember: planets are big. You can't just say "I'm from Londinium" and expect people to be able to get in touch with your family, birth-hospital, and house.




Good point about Fall falling at different times on different planets. :) Besides, seasons are a vestigial mode of time measurement. Based on solar cycles. Not applicable. :)

"New Providence" could very well be River's hometown (on Osiris). I can't find any info on it, though. It would, btw, make sense for River to attend an Academy/school on her home planet.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 10:16 AM

MARINA


Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:

Aug 22, 2015 definitely is the right date when River went to the Academy (and corroborrated: "She was fourteen," Simon says in the pilot). And the year 2517 is written on the screen at the start of the series. And, come to think of it, if the BDM takes place around June 4, 2018, then River is also STILL "a traumatized seventeen-year-old girl" at the time. It all fits. Hail to Joss' astounding sense of detail!



You're right, of course. But I did figure out why I thought that - the River Tam Sessions. The fact that they were numbered into the 400's - I was incorrectly assuming that she was (on average) having no more than one session per day. But I guess if she were having two sessions a day it would fit perfectly.

Don't make faces.

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 10:38 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by marina:

Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:


Aug 22, 2515 definitely is the right date when River went to the Academy (and corroborrated: "She was fourteen," Simon says in the pilot). And the year 2517 is written on the screen at the start of the series. And, come to think of it, if the BDM takes place around June 4, 2518, then River is also STILL "a traumatized seventeen-year-old girl" at the time. It all fits. Hail to Joss' astounding sense of detail!



You're right, of course. But I did figure out why I thought that - the River Tam Sessions. The fact that they were numbered into the 400's - I was incorrectly assuming that she was (on average) having no more than one session per day. But I guess if she were having two sessions a day it would fit perfectly.




Ooo, clever thinking. :) I never even thought 'bout that.

Funnily enough, instinctively it just always felt like she'd been there much longer than a year. But the math adds up.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, December 18, 2006 2:53 PM

STEAMER


*punt*

Can't wait to see what I dream tonight....



Crazy love sets
Hearts a-quiver
And River, oh,
I love River
FIREFLY

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Monday, December 18, 2006 8:10 PM

FLORALBUNNY


Happy pre-Birthday, River Tam!!

(I'll celebrate by shooting with my eyes closed)

bun
~Bastards feted my turtle~

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Monday, December 18, 2006 11:36 PM

DARKFLY


Happy birthday River

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Tuesday, December 19, 2006 10:44 AM

RHYIANAN


Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:
Rhyianan rather convincingly argued that the Eavesdown docks scene seems to take place around Fall



Actually, my argument was that the weather was fall-like during that scene, judging by the clothing the BDHs were wearing. For all I know, it could have been the height of summer, just the climate and temperature were what I associate with early fall/late spring, since all planets are different, as was pointed out earlier.

Also, now that I'm looking at the data on River, something interesting jumps out at me. The dates are done European style, with the day and then the month, but the alliance is supposed to be the US and China (at least from what I understand). So since the dates aren't in Chinese, wouldn't it be more likely that it would be done American style, with the month first and then the day?

I'm a leaf on the wind

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Tuesday, December 19, 2006 4:59 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Rhyianan:

Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:

Rhyianan rather convincingly argued that the Eavesdown docks scene seems to take place around Fall



Actually, my argument was that the weather was fall-like during that scene, judging by the clothing the BDHs were wearing. For all I know, it could have been the height of summer, just the climate and temperature were what I associate with early fall/late spring, since all planets are different, as was pointed out earlier.

Also, now that I'm looking at the data on River, something interesting jumps out at me. The dates are done European style, with the day and then the month, but the alliance is supposed to be the US and China (at least from what I understand). So since the dates aren't in Chinese, wouldn't it be more likely that it would be done American style, with the month first and then the day?




Actually I believe Chinese date format is still European style in Hong Kong. But you make a good observation, nonetheless. It IS a mite odd.

Also, now that I'm looking at the data on River, something interesting jumps out at me. :) The last date on the page: "04Nov03". What's Nov 4th, 2503 all about? The Battle of Serenity Valley, marking the end of the Unification War, began May 2511. Which could mean the Alliance have been running their little operation Oracle since 8 years before the War even! (or, at least, Area 54 has existed that long).


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Tuesday, December 19, 2006 6:36 PM

LVS2READ


Quote:

Originally posted by marina:

For some reason I thought she had been at the academy much longer than ~1 year (re: aug15 and Simon's escape date)... Can't place the quote or the reference, though



Simon says in the pilot: "For two years I couldn't get near her." Which, if you take that at face value, throws a kink into him getting River out in 2516, because, at most, that would have been a year and four months. Now, granted, people don't say "I did such and such a year and four months ago." We're more apt to say a year and a half, or a little more than a year. Still...

Also, according to the timeline found here: http://www.mts.net/%7Earphaxad/firefly.html the pilot begins in late May 2517. So, if Simon got River out as late/early as Dec 2516, would he really haul that box around for almost 5 months? Of course, it's possible she wasn't put in cryo right away, but that opens up a whole new can of worms.

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhyianan:

Also, now that I'm looking at the data on River, something interesting jumps out at me. The dates are done European style, with the day and then the month, but the alliance is supposed to be the US and China (at least from what I understand). So since the dates aren't in Chinese, wouldn't it be more likely that it would be done American style, with the month first and then the day?



Actually, the American military (and I believe many other governmental agencies) uses dd/mm/yr as the standard for writing dates, so this format doesn't surprise me at all.

Just my two bits on the fascinating puzzle that is River Tam. Hope she had a good birthday.

"I love my captain."

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Tuesday, December 19, 2006 7:14 PM

MARTIANWAY


Nothing wise to add to this thread, though I hope it continues.

Happy Birthday, River!

"And you can't stop me by gettin' all...bendy..."

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