GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Inara's Jedi mind tricks

POSTED BY: SERGEANTX
UPDATED: Monday, May 31, 2004 12:10
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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 9:19 AM

SERGEANTX


I've been thinking about starting this thread for awhile now. After recently reviewing all the episodes, I'm more convinced than ever that Inara has abilities/skills/training that allow her certain powers of persuasion and perhaps subtle types of mental reading or control. The most obvious example happened in Heart of Gold when she is consoling the woman in the grasp of intense labor pains. Inara's voice assumes a commanding tone and she seems to more or less take control of Petaline's mental focus. With that in mind I've looked back through the episodes and noticed several interchanges involving Inara that could be further examples.

Another example occured in Out of Gas, during the flashback showing Mal firsting renting the shuttle to Inara. The dialog beginning when Inara tells Mal that he wants her on the ship. When I first watched I interpreted this as sexual tension, but it had a certain strangeness to it that fits the "mind tricks" explanation.

I could go on, but most of the other examples are very subtle, most involving Inara manipulating or reading the emotions and perceptions of other characters in the show.

What do you think? Am I out to lunch on this, or is there more to Companion training than the Kama Sutra?

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 9:44 AM

FFYING2


That's interesting, Sarge. I don't think it's a Jedi-like thing. I thing it's an especially acute empathy/reading the situation. This is no doubt enhanced by Companion training, but they must only accept women who are already capable.

It seems like a mild version of that "perfect mate" in ST:TNG, played by Famke Janssen, who could "read" any male and accomodate to him. It also seems to be what Simon THINKS River can do in Objects in Space, not admitting at first the actual psychic skills that Mal and Book suspect.

I haven't seen Heart of Gold, but trained therapists can use tone of voice and word choice to hypnotize a willing subject, calm a patient, and so forth. That could be handy for a Companion.

Good topic.

Ying/
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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 11:37 AM

SERGEANTX


I'm also thinking this might be some of Inara's fascination with Mal. Maybe this is a guy that she can't 'read' and might not be as susceptible to her 'wiles'. Anyway, I'm betting there's a lot more to the whole Companion thing than just a high class escort.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 11:57 AM

HIPPYDOG


Quote:

I'm more convinced than ever that Inara has abilities/skills/training that allow her certain powers of persuasion and perhaps subtle types of mental reading or control.


the biggest one for me was when Jubal slapped her..
I dont remember the exact quote but didnt he say something about "dont try those companion wiles/tricks on me?"
.
Having some sort of special training or skill would also explain why companions are so highly regarded..

Just my 2 Cents.

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 12:04 PM

SERGEANTX


Yeah that's right. Like he knew exactly what she was up to. I think he said something like "Don't go visiting my intentions, don't ever." Given his knowledge about Book and River, he may very well know what the real deal is with Companions.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 12:07 PM

KAYTHRYN


Quote:

Posted by Hippydog: "don’t try those companion wiles/tricks on me?"


It was, "Don't go visiting my intentions. Don't ever."

I don’t think there are any Jedi mind tricks, just that the academy taught companions to read body language, the tones in a persons voice, things like that so that they would be more inviting, more comfortable and enjoyable to be around.

Also, spoiler for HoG...

Select to view spoiler:


In HoG, after Nandi slept with Mal, Inara and Nandi only had to share a look for Nandi to realize that Inara also had feelings for Mal.

That might of helped the argument for some mind reading but, oh well.

-------------------------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 12:19 PM

SERGEANTX


The whole line between ESP type mind reading and just being acutely sensitive/intuitive is kind of fuzzy in the 'verse. Pretty much everything River has done is conceivably explained as extra acute senses combined with extreme mental ability. I'm guessing Joss wants to stay away from superpowers and magic.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 1:03 PM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
What do you think? Am I out to lunch on this, or is there more to Companion training than the Kama Sutra?



Not out to lunch, although I think the empathic emphasis also plays into this. Inara's been trained to perceive people on more than one level of intimacy. She can tell what their intentions are by reading body language, observing the muscles around the eyes, or measuring the tone of voice. One has to think that she has an instinct for it, and that some sort of test had to be performed to determine if she had that instinct before the Academy would even consider training her. In that way, she's very Jedi-like. Not to mention when she and Saffron got into fisticuffs in Our Mrs. Reynolds, Inara showed she has the reflexes of a cat. That, to me, indicated she's had martial arts training as well. Not all clients are the kind benevolent type and as she's not a large woman, she'd have to be able to defend herself if she had to. Again, very Jedi-like.

On the other hand, I don't think she'd be able to trick an Alliance thumper into letting her, an old man, a kid and two androids through a check point either...whoops. I think I set my blender on high when I mixed the metaphor there. Sorry

“We three are the only ones in this place wearing brown.
Means we’ve found something worth fighting for.
Something worth being more than alive for.”
Sarahetc

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 1:13 PM

GAMBIT3


It ain't Jedi Mind tricks.

It's them Feminine Wiles.



__________________________
Kaylee, will you marry me?

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 2:36 PM

PSYKOTEK


what about Dune's Bene Gesserit
maybe something to do with total body and vocal control?

just a thought

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 3:33 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED


Quote:

Originally posted by psykotek:
what about Dune's Bene Gesserit
maybe something to do with total body and vocal control?

just a thought



Damn you! I was going to say that!

________________

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WASH: Sweetie, we're crooks. If everything were right, we'd be in jail.

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 10:09 PM

DRAKON


Not out to lunch at all. Think about it, a lot of sexuality and romance is in looks, glances, the tension of certain muscles. No one really likes to just out and state what they like or dislike during intimacy. What if your partner/playmate goes "Ewwww!!!"? It would spoil the mood.

To be a good companion, one would have to be able to read people. Not telepathy, but just note different things, look out for subtle clues, etc. So yeah, it looks like there is more than Kama Sutra.

Also note that YoSafBrig knew just the right bible/myth to use on the various menfolk. I would even posit that if Inara were not already a companion, YoSafBrig's attempt on her would have worked as well.

Guess this means she does not get to play poker much.

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 11:48 PM

LINDLEY


You know, I posted a while back on another board that Firefly could concievably be a pre-prequel to Dune.

Although I used other evidence to suggest it, this does support my theory that the Companion Guild eventually would become the Bene Gesserit. Its Voice, I tell ya!

I was also speculating that the Blue Hands might become the Bene Teilax, and the Reavers could, with the proper motivations, become the primary force behind the Butlarian Jihad.

Probably doesn't make a lot of sense, but what the heck. :)

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Thursday, September 18, 2003 6:02 AM

GOATUS


She has feminine wiles ;)

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Thursday, September 18, 2003 6:21 AM

STILLSHINY


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
I'm also thinking this might be some of Inara's fascination with Mal. Maybe this is a guy that she can't 'read' and might not be as susceptible to her 'wiles'.

SergeantX



This could very likely be, like in Serenity when she says talks to Book about Mal being a mystery, and the fact that so few men are.

Mal: “See how I'm not punching him? I think I've grown!”

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Thursday, September 18, 2003 6:27 AM

GAMBIT3


Quote:

Originally posted by goatus:
She has feminine wiles ;)



That's what *I* say!

__________________________
Kaylee, will you marry me?

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Thursday, September 18, 2003 11:34 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by psykotek:
what about Dune's Bene Gesserit(SP)
maybe something to do with total body and vocal control?

just a thought



yeah yeah yeah - THAT!!

AND feminine wiles...she is formidable and we are SO not worthy.

“We three are the only ones in this place wearing brown.
Means we’ve found something worth fighting for.
Something worth being more than alive for.”
Sarahetc

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 5:57 AM

LUPINADDAMS


I suggested in the 'Firefly and Religion part 3' thread that inara may well be an initiate of a form of tantra/sex-alchemy/yoga discipline as part of her Companion skillset or even as the basis of Companion-ship... the possibility of her having substantial ch'i-manipulation skills would follow nicely. Part BeneGesseret-like Voice, part body language, part projection of her own life force... possibly even the ability to manipulate subjective time (as hinted at in Serenity).



"You are what you do."
Andrew Vacchs

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 8:59 AM

ANKHAGOGO


I'm going with those who think it's the ability to read posture, facial expressions and other physical signs. Professional card players always say how everyone has a "tell" -- that's not just applicable in cards.

As for Nandi suddenly realizing Inara's feelings for Mal in Heart of Gold -- they were close friends, yes? Maybe this is more of a thing between girl friends than male friends, but if I'm meeting a good friend somewhere, I can accurately judge her current mood from across the food court, before I even see her face or talk to her.
When Nandi comes in, isn't that right after Inara had been wailing her little heart out? Nandi wouldn't be a very observant friend if she couldn't tell that Inara had recently been very upset.

"Well personally, I kinda want to slay the dragon."

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 2:51 PM

GRACEOM


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
I'm also thinking this might be some of Inara's fascination with Mal. Maybe this is a guy that she can't 'read' and might not be as susceptible to her 'wiles'. Anyway, I'm betting there's a lot more to the whole Companion thing than just a high class escort.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith




I think maybe her fascination with Mal is that she can read him. That is, she knows very well that he's powerfully attracted to her, but he's keeping her at arm's length anyway. I'm guessing that's a pretty unusual experience for her The mystery to her (I'm guessing again) is the why of it.

Grace

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 3:22 PM

CORWYN


Inara is as good at her job as you are at yours. Possibly more so, as she was, by all reports, headed for the top. Think about what that means for a minute.

Plus, love is the _original_ Jedi mind trick.

Thank You Kindly.

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 6:45 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


She's just a chick and knows how to use 'it' to get what she wants.

Ok, she's been trained , as a companion, to read people. As a good head for business, she also tilts the playing field in her favor, when applicable. In OoG, she 'tells' Mal that he's going to rent her the shuttle and at a lower price than he's asking for. If she REALLY had Jedi mind tricks, he'd simply agree, but instead he ask .." oh? and why am I going to do that ? ".

Anyway, if anyone has Jedi powers on Serenity, its clearly River.



" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 7:13 PM

SERGEANTX


Inara is actually very old, I'm guess seventy+ years. She, like all companions takes drugs to maintain her youthful looks, but these last only so long. These drugs are a one way street, because when age finally overcomes the power of the drug the crash is so severe most of the women die from it.
So, traditionally they commit a kind of ritual suicide when the time nears. Inara's time is near and she has chosen her little sojourn on Serenity to disappear into 'the black'. She didn't count on falling in love.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:56 PM

MENELUIN


Haven't seen "Dune," but (well, here I go again with my Trek parallels) I was thinking more along the lines of Deanna Troi from Next Gen. We know that she's empathic because she's half-Betazoid, but we also know that to be a Counselor, she's had to undergo a lot of training that would enable her to read people well. Sometimes it's not clear whether her abilities are due to the mental skills she was born with, her exemplary training, or both.

I think Inara's a less extreme example of the same. I mean, you get the sense that even for a Companion, she isn't 'typical,' and that there's more to her than most.



//psykotek wrote:
Wednesday, September 17, 2003 14:36
what about Dune's Bene Gesserit
maybe something to do with total body and vocal control?

just a thought


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Saturday, May 22, 2004 10:33 PM

WEERWOLF


Quote:

Originally posted by GraceOM:
Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
I'm also thinking this might be some of Inara's fascination with Mal. Maybe this is a guy that she can't 'read' and might not be as susceptible to her 'wiles'. Anyway, I'm betting there's a lot more to the whole Companion thing than just a high class escort.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith




I think maybe her fascination with Mal is that she can read him. That is, she knows very well that he's powerfully attracted to her, but he's keeping her at arm's length anyway. I'm guessing that's a pretty unusual experience for her The mystery to her (I'm guessing again) is the why of it.

Grace




I think that goes very well with what YoSaffBridge says in OMR: "Most men are on me inside of ten minutes" and Mal lasted a whole day before he finally gave in to her feminine wiles... And she had them turned on full, whereas Inara is doing her best to keep emotional distance between her and Mal, a distance which both appear to maintain only due to calling names and be abusive to one another. And like Inara, YoSaffBridge had Companion training.

----------------------------------------------
"Damn it Mal... I forgot my line!"

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Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:22 PM

CALHOUN


Quote:

Gambit3 wrote:
Wednesday, September 17, 2003 13:13
It ain't Jedi Mind tricks.

It's them Feminine Wiles.



I agree with Gambit3. This is exactly word for word what I was gunna say!



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Sunday, May 23, 2004 1:21 AM

FIREFLEW


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Inara is actually very old, I'm guess seventy+ years. She, like all companions takes drugs to maintain her youthful looks, but these last only so long. These drugs are a one way street, because when age finally overcomes the power of the drug the crash is so severe most of the women die from it.
So, traditionally they commit a kind of ritual suicide when the time nears. Inara's time is near and she has chosen her little sojourn on Serenity to disappear into 'the black'. She didn't count on falling in love.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock



Would this drugs be at all similar to that sand-type powder used in Dune to maintain life? Would Joss put something like that in Firefly, in a universe that planned to be completely differnet to everything else?

Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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Sunday, May 23, 2004 8:20 AM

ANNIK


Quote:

Originally posted by Fireflew:
Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Inara is actually very old, I'm guess seventy+ years. She, like all companions takes drugs to maintain her youthful looks, but these last only so long. These drugs are a one way street, because when age finally overcomes the power of the drug the crash is so severe most of the women die from it.
So, traditionally they commit a kind of ritual suicide when the time nears. Inara's time is near and she has chosen her little sojourn on Serenity to disappear into 'the black'. She didn't count on falling in love.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock



Would this drugs be at all similar to that sand-type powder used in Dune to maintain life? Would Joss put something like that in Firefly, in a universe that planned to be completely differnet to everything else?



IMHO, the pursuit of eternal youth is a common theme even IRL today. Don't most of you get hundreds of spams per week touting the benefits of HGH, or even why you should be taking Viagra all the time?

I don't think that anti-aging is necessarily a crossover into the Dune universe ... I think it is a major part of our RL culture today ... sad and pathetic state that it is.

BTW ... in Dune, even the Fremen eating the life-expanding spice with everything, they have 'crones', wise women and elderly men ... sure, they're probably ancient beyond the normal un-spiced human span, but they certainly don't stay fresh and youthful for their entire lives. (As per the original novels).

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

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Sunday, May 23, 2004 10:08 AM

ANKHAGOGO


Quote:

Originally posted by Fireflew:
Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Inara is actually very old, I'm guess seventy+ years. She, like all companions takes drugs to maintain her youthful looks...



Quote:

Would this drugs be at all similar to that sand-type powder used in Dune to maintain life? Would Joss put something like that in Firefly, in a universe that planned to be completely differnet to everything else?



Actually, in another thread, the "anti-aging drug" theory was suggested as a possibility for the not-a-suicide-kit box with the syringe in it that Inara pulls out in Serenity, when they first see the Reaver ship.
I do like this idea, but I'd guess her age even higher than 70s. Why, I don't know. I also like the idea that after a certain point the crash from the drug is severe. Nice and traumatic.

"Well personally, I kinda want to slay the dragon."

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Sunday, May 23, 2004 10:10 AM

FIREFLEW


Quote:

Originally posted by annik:


IMHO, the pursuit of eternal youth is a common theme even IRL today. Don't most of you get hundreds of spams per week touting the benefits of HGH, or even why you should be taking Viagra all the time?

I don't think that anti-aging is necessarily a crossover into the Dune universe ... I think it is a major part of our RL culture today ... sad and pathetic state that it is.

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.



Yeah, you do have a good point there. It's strange how people will go to such obscene measures to look/feel young. In some cases, it's just sick. Cher is in her 60s, and she doesn't look young; she looks like a plastic doll akin to Chucky in creepy terms...

Although, to address the first point of the sand, is there any reasons to believe that she is this old?

Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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Sunday, May 23, 2004 3:48 PM

EBONEZER


Yeah, Inara can read people, almost everybody can, although few people can use it as well to her advantage. Definatly compantion training. As far as her jedi-like "Powers of suggestion," a lot of it is in the delivery, but a lot of it (possibly more) is the fact that Inara drips sex apeal.

This might be a shot in the dark (i don't know exactly how men think, and i don't claim too) but wouldn't some men be trilled to do whatever this beautiful compainion might ask them too, just because of the off chance that she might have sex with them? This would probably be very subconcious or subliminal thoughts on the part of the man, but have you ever noticed that sales people will go a little farther for a pretty face then they will for somebody who is less attractive? (except the K-mart, people at K-mart don't help anybody)

-----------------------------------

Four out of five dentists reccomend calling Ebo a girl.

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Monday, May 24, 2004 1:24 AM

JK


Hmm. Mental images of Inara cavorting about the cargo bay with lightsaber in hand. Mal ('bad'. In the Latin) saying "No, Inara. I am your father." Inara turns out to have a brother, Book, who also has the Force/Feminine Wiles. Wash can have had a little maneouvre at the Battle of Tanab, and Simon is actually his cyborg assistant. The watchismacallits on Serenity can get polarised and that's why they can't fly, River is actually head of the Alliance and wears lots of makeup to hide a surprisingly hideous face, and there are links for Zoe, Jayne and Kaylee too...

Don't rightly know what they are, though.

JK - Working to take serious conversations into the Lands of Bizarre

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Monday, May 24, 2004 7:36 AM

FIREFLEW


Quote:

Originally posted by ebonezer:

This might be a shot in the dark (i don't know exactly how men think, and i don't claim too) but wouldn't some men be trilled to do whatever this beautiful compainion might ask them too, just because of the off chance that she might have sex with them? This would probably be very subconcious or subliminal thoughts on the part of the man, but have you ever noticed that sales people will go a little farther for a pretty face then they will for somebody who is less attractive? (except the K-mart, people at K-mart don't help anybody)

-----------------------------------

Four out of five dentists reccomend calling Ebo a girl.




No, this isn't at all a shot in the dark. Many guys will do exactly what you say.

Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."

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Monday, May 24, 2004 9:21 AM

HUMBLE


What you're decribing sounds more than a little like what the Bene Gesserits used in Dune. You know, the power of Voice. My guess was they used vocal tones to semi-hypnotize people or make them more compliant to their bidding. Maybe Inara went through some kind of psychological schooling that trained her to "read" people quickly. I think that's what it is, she's just been around enough and exposed to enough people that she can get a read on most people. I remember that she was fooled by Saffron and being that Saffron was also trained as a Companion, this implies that the Companions must recieve some sort of training that allows them to conceal their own emotions(inscrutability?) while at the same time be able to extract info/get into the heads of their clients.

Just a thought anyway.

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Monday, May 24, 2004 10:47 AM

GRACEOM


Quote:

Originally posted by HUMBLE:
What you're decribing sounds more than a little like what the Bene Gesserits used in Dune. You know, the power of Voice. My guess was they used vocal tones to semi-hypnotize people or make them more compliant to their bidding. Maybe Inara went through some kind of psychological schooling that trained her to "read" people quickly. I think that's what it is, she's just been around enough and exposed to enough people that she can get a read on most people. I remember that she was fooled by Saffron and being that Saffron was also trained as a Companion, this implies that the Companions must recieve some sort of training that allows them to conceal their own emotions(inscrutability?) while at the same time be able to extract info/get into the heads of their clients.

Just a thought anyway.



I think she was fooled by Saffron's innocent act until Saffron tried to seduce her. My impression, from what Inara said later, was that the attempted seduction not only didn't fool her, she recognized the technique as Academy training. So, yeah, it would seem they're trained to perceive and manipulate sexual desire, but the "mind control tricks" don't extend beyond the sexual arena. Not that that wouldn't be quite enough to cause considerable mayhem , as Saffron so abundantly demonstrates over and over...

Grace

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Monday, May 24, 2004 10:58 AM

HUMBLE


I dunno, the "sexual arena" extends for quite a ways.

HUMBLE

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Monday, May 24, 2004 1:03 PM

GRACEOM


Quote:

Originally posted by HUMBLE:
I dunno, the "sexual arena" extends for quite a ways.

HUMBLE



It sure does, LOL! But it doesn't quite cover everything for everyone, which is where I think she runs into a bit of confusion...at times...with certain people...

Grace

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Monday, May 24, 2004 2:01 PM

HUMBLE


"Certain people" meaning Mal? He's kind of a live wire, a raw nerve. Maybe that's why Inara is drawn to him. Confusion/love/lust. Her Companion training seems to break down around Mal for some reason. Maybe old Mal is learning a few of HER mind tricks. Or maybe it's that and something else combined.

Just my view from the peanut gallery. HUMBLE.

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Monday, May 24, 2004 3:18 PM

ANKHAGOGO


Quote:

Originally posted by HUMBLE:
"Certain people" meaning Mal? He's kind of a live wire, a raw nerve. Maybe that's why Inara is drawn to him. Confusion/love/lust. Her Companion training seems to break down around Mal for some reason. Maybe old Mal is learning a few of HER mind tricks. Or maybe it's that and something else combined.




Maybe it's been a while since Inara's actuallybeen attracted to someone the way she is to Mal. I could see where that in itself would confuse her.
Then there the fact that Inara is probably used to the kind of attention she got in Paridiso or from Atherton -- heck, to a certain point, she probably expects that kind of reaction from men of all stations and ages.
Mal acts like he doesn't even notice she's got girl parts. I would think that, for someone who gets men going ga-ga over her without even trying, Mal's seeming lack of appreciation for her looks would just be a)frustrating, and b)bewildering, as well as c)intriguing.

"Well personally, I kinda want to slay the dragon."

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Monday, May 24, 2004 3:57 PM

HUMBLE


ANKHAGOGO: You may be right about Inara's not being attracted to one particular man for quite awhile. Mal doesn't fit into a neatly defined package. He's an oddity and a challenge to her. I'd say if Inara were used to the kind of tender mercies Atherton dispenses, she would have a very short life span. I agree about her feeling frustrated and intrigued by Mal's seeming indifference towards her. But bewildering? I think not. He's expressed his thoughts of her on a number occasions as a whore, yeah? I think she thinks that he thinks he's above her, too good for her. Even in his low-class world as a smuggler and thief, he has the nerve to think himself above her. Imagine how this galls such a woman of her social stature. I'm willing to bet there is as much her own ego driving her interest in Mal as there is animal attraction. What say you to that?

HUMBLE.

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Monday, May 24, 2004 11:01 PM

NICOLACLARKE


Perhaps she finds it refreshing that Mal doesn't automatically treat her like a sex object/commodity. However much she enjoys her work, it must affect how she views men to some extent. While she could doubtless read Mal's feelings developing in the way he acted towards her, and long before he said anything outright, she was intrigued because he made such pains to deny it to himself. Plus, she's fallen for him.

As to her mind tricks, I agree that it's all about an intuitive reading of body language. In that, I guess she's the counterpart of - and contrast to - River, who gives every appearance of reading minds. Quite a neat symmetry.

/ pure intentions, juxtaposed /

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Tuesday, May 25, 2004 8:31 AM

GRACEOM


Quote:

Originally posted by HUMBLE:
"Certain people" meaning Mal? He's kind of a live wire, a raw nerve. Maybe that's why Inara is drawn to him. Confusion/love/lust. Her Companion training seems to break down around Mal for some reason. Maybe old Mal is learning a few of HER mind tricks. Or maybe it's that and something else combined.

Just my view from the peanut gallery. HUMBLE.



Hmm. The thing about Mal is that he cares more about his ship and his crew than he does about getting laid. I suspect Inara hasn't met too many men who put their principles before personal gratification. It's pretty clear she admires that quality in him, even though it's a large part of what keeps him away from her (much of the rest being pride, imo, as in fear that she would reject him).

Also, apart from her little comment when he rents her the shuttle ("You want me"; he blusters --'coz he does; she lets him off the hook: "...on your ship because..."), I don't think Inara has seriously tried to use her Companion training on Mal. I think she doesn't want to try it because: 1) it might work, and then she'd lose respect for him, or 2) it might fail, and then she'd be totally humiliated.

Clearly he's not immune to the lure of a Companion--both Saffron and Nandi got him going with just a bit more than the usual trouble.

In any event, these two people have really cornered themselves...

Grace

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Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:05 AM

HUMBLE


GRACEOM-I'm with you on Mal caring about his ship and THEN his crew. He'd live and die for Serenity, having proven the in Out Of Gas. I think Inara is jealous that these are his primary concerns. She may admire this quality about him but having met so few men of his caliber, she's lost on how to go about putting the moves on Mal. Inara's training probably would not be a factor. It's obvious they have a mutual attraction. (Both being to stubborn to admit it.) The sexual tension is thick enough to cut with a knife!

I think that with Saffron, Mal wasn't going to do the deed with her. Inara's pull was too strong. With Nandi, that's totally on Inara. It was her idea to get Mal to help out. His initial idea was for Nandi an Co. to hightail it. But, oh no, gets persuaded to fight it out. Nandi jumps on poor Mal like a tigress on a steak. Then Inara acts out the hurt, confused, and betrayed schoolgirl routine crying her eyes out.

I believe from Inara's first meeting on Serenity, she was painting herself into a corner. Laying out the foundation to prevent a relationship from forming between her an Mal. Regretting it later on.

Yeah, I think you're right about Mal wanting Inara at that first meeting. She was testing his reactions to get a read on him. Scoping him out. Maybe she didn't intend at first to actually liking and falling in love with Mal.

Whaddaya think. HUMBLE.

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Tuesday, May 25, 2004 12:28 PM

GRACEOM


Quote:

Originally posted by HUMBLE:
GRACEOM-I'm with you on Mal caring about his ship and THEN his crew. He'd live and die for Serenity, having proven the in Out Of Gas. I think Inara is jealous that these are his primary concerns. She may admire this quality about him but having met so few men of his caliber, she's lost on how to go about putting the moves on Mal. Inara's training probably would not be a factor. It's obvious they have a mutual attraction. (Both being to stubborn to admit it.) The sexual tension is thick enough to cut with a knife!

I think that with Saffron, Mal wasn't going to do the deed with her. Inara's pull was too strong. With Nandi, that's totally on Inara. It was her idea to get Mal to help out. His initial idea was for Nandi an Co. to hightail it. But, oh no, gets persuaded to fight it out. Nandi jumps on poor Mal like a tigress on a steak. Then Inara acts out the hurt, confused, and betrayed schoolgirl routine crying her eyes out.

I believe from Inara's first meeting on Serenity, she was painting herself into a corner. Laying out the foundation to prevent a relationship from forming between her an Mal. Regretting it later on.

Yeah, I think you're right about Mal wanting Inara at that first meeting. She was testing his reactions to get a read on him. Scoping him out. Maybe she didn't intend at first to actually liking and falling in love with Mal.

Whaddaya think. HUMBLE.



Can't agree with you about Saffron, LOL! If Mal hadn't passed out from her lipstick, he was so not going to stop with kissing his "nekkid and articulate" new "wife" That's my opinion, anyway.

In Heart of Gold...I think the writers exagerrated Inara's snarkiness toward Mal in order to make his excursion with Nandi seem like less of a betrayal--IOW to provide some foundation for his evident view that Inara had no feelings for him (so he might as well do whatever it took to forget about her). In the other episodes, their banter is mostly more playful--though calculated by both of them to maintain a distance. Much of the time we see them simply enjoying each other's company--wandering about a space station bazaar, having a drink...etc.

In any event, I think her despair when she found out Mal had spent the night with Nandi kind of took her by surprise. For whatever reason (and there may be more than we know at present, as discussed in the "Inara's secret" thread) she'd pushed him away hard, and he...went. I don't think she anticipated it hurting so much. Maybe it's herself that her "Jedi mind tricks" don't work on

Grace

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Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:19 PM

HUMBLE


GRACEOM-I think Mal would've resisted Saffron. If she had to go for the hard sell(no pun intended), by throwing her butt-nekkid bod at him to get a rise out of him, she's either doing something wrong or barking up the wrong tree. No, I believe at that point Inara was his interest.

In Heart, I THOUGHT Inara was weeping over Mal's sexxin' another woman. But maybe she was planning something like this all along. Something else going on with Inara that nobody knows about except her. A medical condition she wants to spare Mal from having to deal with? Maybe she has some some of fatal illness that is progressively getting worse?

I agree that the writing was inconsistent with their "relationship". Hot to cold, etc.,etc. Inara does seem to be her own enemy keeping mostly to herself and somewhat aloof. Like someone that doesn't want to form too close of attachments with others not knowing when you will have to leave them. It makes it easier for her to just pack up and go that way.

HUMBLE.

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Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:44 PM

HUMBLE


NICOLACLARKE-I think everything you're saying is right on the money. Better than I could've said it and with a lot fewer words.

HUMBLE.

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Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:07 AM

NICOLACLARKE


Humble - Thanks!

As for the Nandi situation, I think that Mal's attraction to her (and Nandi's to him) isn't difficult to explain - she has all the qualities that Mal admires (strong will, determination to be independent/self-sufficient, etc). Plus, there's that night-before-a-battle element - the desire to feel alive.

When he says that they (he and Nandi) are the only two people in the room, he means it (mostly)... he doesn't realise Inara has feelings for him, and he's doing his best to repress his own at least partly *because* he doesn't realise. (Notice how, at the end of the episode - after Nandi has made it clear to Mal that Inara does have the feelings - he goes straight for the question...)

Inara's reaction is totally human. She has been trying to deny her feelings too, but this - the first time (bar Saffron) she's seen him respond to another woman - makes her see that isn't as easy as she'd thought. Hence her immediate desire to leave.

As to why she's in denial... perhaps it's her mysterious illness/whatever. Or perhaps not so mysterious: after all, could anyone imagine Mal being happy with Inara as a Companion if they got together? Yet being a Companion is, after all, her life - I'd hesitantly suggest that it's as important to her as Mal's own role as captain of Serenity is to him.

Just my thoughts...

/ pure intentions, juxtaposed /

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Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:16 AM

LIZ


I thought of something that doesn't relate so much to the Mal/Inara thing, but might be an interesting contribution to the "jedi mind trick" thing:

in "Serenity," we see the scene with the different reactions Inara would have liked to have had to the gentleman she was with, but she represses themin favor of a more socially acceptable response.

We see Jubal Early do the same thing when River is talking about his past. (kind of Matrix-y, but that's for a different thread)

i just thought it was interesting that these are the only characters from whom we see these alternate reactions, especially since Early knew what Inara was trying to do when she tried to soothe him.

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Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:22 AM

HUMBLE


NICOLACLARK-You're Welcome!

Yeah, I totally with you on the Mal/Nandi hook-up. (The survival instinct to pass on ones genes prior to a life-threatening situation.)

Can Mal be such a dumb-ass that he has no clue that Inara has feelings for him? Possibly. While watching OMR the guy is so dense about why Inara was knocked out in his cabin that it made ME want to slap him upside his head.

I'm thinking that if the series would have continued, Inara would have forsaken here career as a Companion and gotten more into Mal & Co.'s illegal/quasi-legal activities. (As in Trash when she got the jump on Saffron towards the end of the ep.) Also, as all things come to an end, Inara can only be a companion for a certain amount of time. Joining up with Mal as his partner in crime/significant-other would eliminate the conflict Mal has with her being a Companion.



T.T.F.N.-HUMBLE.

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Wednesday, May 26, 2004 11:25 AM

GRACEOM


Quote:

Originally posted by NicolaClarke:
Humble - Thanks!

As for the Nandi situation, I think that Mal's attraction to her (and Nandi's to him) isn't difficult to explain - she has all the qualities that Mal admires (strong will, determination to be independent/self-sufficient, etc). Plus, there's that night-before-a-battle element - the desire to feel alive.

When he says that they (he and Nandi) are the only two people in the room, he means it (mostly)... he doesn't realise Inara has feelings for him, and he's doing his best to repress his own at least partly *because* he doesn't realise. (Notice how, at the end of the episode - after Nandi has made it clear to Mal that Inara does have the feelings - he goes straight for the question...)

Inara's reaction is totally human. She has been trying to deny her feelings too, but this - the first time (bar Saffron) she's seen him respond to another woman - makes her see that isn't as easy as she'd thought. Hence her immediate desire to leave.

As to why she's in denial... perhaps it's her mysterious illness/whatever. Or perhaps not so mysterious: after all, could anyone imagine Mal being happy with Inara as a Companion if they got together? Yet being a Companion is, after all, her life - I'd hesitantly suggest that it's as important to her as Mal's own role as captain of Serenity is to him.

Just my thoughts...

/ pure intentions, juxtaposed /



Well, I agree with all of this, except for the very last bit about Companion-is-to-Inara as Captain-is-to-Mal. It's her career; she's good at it; it supports her in fine style. It also undermines her self-respect, which is what Mal keeps trying to tell her. Atherton Wing's behavior was just one particularly egregious example. I think it's in "Serenity" the first time we see her with a client...the young guy first asks her to stay, and then when she politely declines he makes a crack about her kind always cheating on the time the customer has paid for. She must get a lot of that kind of crap, and however well she's learned to rise above it, how can it not take a toll?

Grace

edited to add: I'm still not convinced that Mal would not have had sex with Saffron . He seemed pretty far gone to me... But obviously we'll never know, so that's a question for Nathan or Joss as some future con

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