GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Mine is an evil Federation?

POSTED BY: ZZETTA13
UPDATED: Thursday, November 16, 2006 08:30
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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 6:14 AM

ZZETTA13


Hello fellow browncoats :)

I just wanted to put up some thoughts here and for anyone that has a mind to they can add (or not) or disagree or just plain ignore this thread.

Anyhoo here goes. After loaning my sister my Serenity dvd a month ago looks like I may not be getting it back. I consider this a good thing, I can always get another. The thing is, I have her original series of Star Trek & there is where some questions come about.Does anyone eles here see kind of a reverse image between the two? I mean Federation= Alliance sort of thing?

In Star Trek theres the spaceship Enterprise which is somewhat of a space battleship, sailing around the verse tapping out any small band of inserection before it may become a threat to the Alliance, I mean Federation (ha..ha). Almost every eps we find in Star Trek captain KirK and crew are on some lonely out of the way planet snuffing out something that is considered harmful to humanity therefore they deal with the threat ( on these rim worlds) while it's small and just taking root. I get the feeling that if Mal and crew were flying around in the same verse they would be on Kirk's hit list and I don't mean his top 40 song list.

Just some thoughts bouncing around in the old knoggin, Z


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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 12:20 PM

DONCOAT


Joss was well aware of the contrast between his 'verse and the ST universe. He has made comments along the lines of, "Firefly is about the ordinary people that the Entrprise would fly past without even noticing".

I'm sure he felt that the ST franchise presented a much too sterile vision of the future, one with too much of what makes us human "perfected out".

In regard to the Federation = Alliance issue, I'd say it's a pretty close parallel. The difference, if any, is that the Federation really does care for the ordinary folk most of the time (Prime Directive and so on), whereas the Alliance just pays lip service.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 12:45 PM

REGINAROADIE


I second that. The thing about STAR TREK is that the interpretations of the function of the Enterprise and the Federation has varied in the 40 years TREK has existed. In the classic TREK series and the first six movies, the Enterprise was very much like a battleship, despite the opening narration of "to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations". And Nick Meyer who did STAR TREK's 2 and 6 portrayed the ship like it was a submarine. Very caustrophobic and militaristic.

While this was accepted by the fans, Gene Roddenberry himself wasn't too big a fan of that. He always envisioned the Enterprise to be more of a vessel of diplomacy. That why the Enterprise in TNG was more friendly, if you could call it that, with a school and places on the ship where people could relax and actually live on the ship for a long period of time. Unlike Joss, Gene was more of an optimist and figured that 200 or so years later, people would actually figure out a way to live in peace.

The main plot I remember from TREK was that the Enterprise was more of a third party. There would be a conflict between two groups (usually a Federation outpost of scientists versus a group of aliens), and the Enterprise would come in, figure out the conflict and find a way for the two groups to live and work in peace. The Enterprise and the Federation never seemed to me to be an opressive regime, although I understand how some people could come around to that.

So depending on which series or movies you watched, the Enterprise/Federation was a diplomatic vessel, or an opressive force.

Someone should do a cross over fanfic where either the Enterprise (A or E) or Voyager is transported into the Firefly dimension and becomes the mediating party between Serenity and the Alliance.

Or here's another way of looking at it. The Trek verse (or at least Enterprises A and E) takes place 200-300 years from now (I'm a bit rusty on the Trek timeline, so bear with me), but Firefly takes place 500 years from now. Maybe the Alliance is the Federation going corrupt over time. And one day, all the aliens just dissappeared.

**************************************************
"We have five million Cybermen. How many are you?"
"Four"
You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?"
"We would destroy the Cybermen with ONE Dalek. You are superior in only one respect."
"What is that?"
"You are better at dying."

Trash talk between a Cyberman and a Dalek. It doesn't get any better than that.

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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 1:32 PM

HUGHFF


Quote:

Originally posted by DonCoat:
Joss was well aware of the contrast between his 'verse and the ST universe. He has made comments along the lines of, "Firefly is about the ordinary people that the Entrprise would fly past without even noticing".




Mal in the Train job says: That's what the Alliance does; bring everyone under the same rule so that they can be interfered with or ignored equally.

Inexact quote-sorry.

www.cpfc.org - my life
www.nbhs.school.nz - my work

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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 2:04 PM

SIMONWHO


After Firefly, it's interesting to watch Star Trek and every time they mention some random cargo ship, to imagine that it's Serenity.

Most of the time they get blown up.

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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 2:24 PM

LAOSHI


I have to agree that the original Star Trek is just more utopian, more optimistic about people being able to work out there problems and inequalities than Firefly. The Alliance is more like that mirror universe Federation we see poping up rom time to time where James T. Kirk is an oppressive dictator. Of course the mirror universe is a bit cartoonishly evil its th lip side of the unrealisticly good Federation. The mirrorverse badies are all "mine is an evil laugh". I much prefer badies like the Operative who thinks he is serving a noble cause. I remember an interview with Joss where he is going on about how we all rebel against our fathers. He says Han Solo is Malcolm Reynolds father and James T Kirk is his wierd uncle Jimmy.

Alliance n. In international politics, the union of two thieves who have their hands so deeply inserted in each other's pocket that they cannot separately plunder a third. -Ambrose Bierce

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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 2:29 PM

REGINAROADIE


Yes. I always thought that Kirk and Mal would have been great friends if they were to meet. Sort of have the same relationship that Hal and Lando Calrissian had, only without the betrayal and carbonite.

I saw "The Naked Time" on late night TV a while back and there was a moment when that Irish crew member started singing that stupid song for the umpteenth time, and right before he starts up, Kirk goes "Oh god, not again" or something similar to that.

At that moment, I thought to myself "Mal would have said that exact same thing if he were in that situation."

**************************************************
"We have five million Cybermen. How many are you?"
"Four"
You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?"
"We would destroy the Cybermen with ONE Dalek. You are superior in only one respect."
"What is that?"
"You are better at dying."

Trash talk between a Cyberman and a Dalek. It doesn't get any better than that.

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Thursday, November 16, 2006 5:45 AM

ZZETTA13


Doncoat- In regard to the Federation = Alliance issue, I'd say it's a pretty close parallel. The difference, if any, is that the Federation really does care for the ordinary folk most of the time (Prime Directive and so on), whereas the Alliance just pays lip service.

Yepper I agree

ReginaRoadie- Or here's another way of looking at it. The Trek verse (or at least Enterprises A and E) takes place 200-300 years from now (I'm a bit rusty on the Trek timeline, so bear with me), but Firefly takes place 500 years from now. Maybe the Alliance is the Federation going corrupt over time. And one day, all the aliens just dissappeared.

An interesting idea Rerina

Hughff- Mal in the Train job says: That's what the Alliance does; bring everyone under the same rule so that they can be interfered with or ignored equally.
Hughff, I remember Mal saying that too.

SimonWho- After Firefly, it's interesting to watch Star Trek and every time they mention some random cargo ship, to imagine that it's Serenity.

SimonWho :)

Laoshi- I remember an interview with Joss where he is going on about how we all rebel against our fathers. He says Han Solo is Malcolm Reynolds father and James T Kirk is his wierd uncle Jimmy.
and Mr. pointy ears (Spock) his no nonsence straitforward godfather :)

ReginaRoadie- All I've got to say is " One more time. I'll take you home Ile..."

Good informative posts guys. One thing I'd like to bring up is in the pilot eps of Firefly. When the captain of the Alliance crusier comes to the choice of chasing after Serenity or going to help what he thinks is a stranded vessel. He chooses to do the latter. IMO this shows that many ppl do believe that Alliance rule is a good thing. That this is how humanity should go forward and its the evil Mals in the verse that disrupt the advancing flow. Of course we know that not every good or innocent deed on the surface is the same once you get to it's nitty-gritty underbelly.

Z

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Thursday, November 16, 2006 6:03 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by reginaroadie:
that Irish crew member

SCOTTISH!!!



-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, November 16, 2006 6:04 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by reginaroadie:

While this was accepted by the fans, Gene Roddenberry himself wasn't too big a fan of that.

Which is why STTMP is my favourite ST original cast movie.
Feety-pajamas and all!

Carbon unit Chrisisall

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Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:30 AM

PIRATECAT


I luv this subject. Years ago at work my ultra conservative coherts let their mags out one being the American Conservative it was bashing the federation. It was a markist, communist, and utopian plot to take cheese off of burgers. I was like geewiz its just tv. I still can't believe Kirk isn't Irish he likes to drink get into fights and hit the space doxies makes the perfect sailor. Being right as usual my work buds who make this fat little redneck alittle uncomfortable went out and bought another gun just incase french canada attacks the outer banks. So I forgotten about it until firefly Josh Whedon lefty from hollyweird opens my eye on the trekkin world. It does suck look there are people who are just bums whoops I mean artist and alike. Some people live in trailors and some in mansions and like it that way. Stargate's Richard Dean Anderson and J W have made antigun statements on the dvd sets but look like an NRA sponsered show to me so I'm happy.

Let's not be excluded people that would be rude.

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