GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

BlueSunShirts.com getting FOXed?!!?

POSTED BY: TENTHCREWMEMBER
UPDATED: Friday, October 27, 2006 00:34
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 13996
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Sunday, October 1, 2006 12:41 AM

PURPLEPEBBLE


This is the saddist news i have heard for a long time, I now fear for all the other shiney sites out there i visit.

We hold our breath for fox to be reasonable, and they just kill us off!

How can such evil once of spawned such geniuse?

this is a sad day.

~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~x~
"Why did you leave?".... "Why didn't you ask me not too?"

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Sunday, October 1, 2006 1:24 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


They only can do it because they have us running scared of their lawyers and the consequences that their money or our lack therof can bring upon us, wreaking havock on security and stability and all of the other things we have taken for granted....

The internet... the last bastion of true freedom in the world, is systematically being shut down, one lawsuit at a time.

There is a civil war at hand. One day, and I do believe it will be while I'm alive, the sleeping giant will have had its toes stepped on one to many times, and will rain fury upon the aristocrats and politicians. When all races and colors and religions can agree to be different and truly embrace each other without the false crutch of political correctness, we will rise against and be a force the world has never before seen. And on that day, there won't be a lawyer in the world who can stop us.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.


"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, October 1, 2006 1:48 AM

HEROUVCANTON


uhhh....are we still talkin' about Tshirts?

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Sunday, October 1, 2006 1:54 AM

GRIZWALD


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I will continue to burn copies of Firefly for anyone who wants them* and I encourage everyone to do the same.




Oh now, that sucks! That ticks me off to no end. How can you possibly equate what you are doing with what the fansites and others (like BSS.com) are doing?

Not that anything I am saying here is likely to convince you, but shouldn't it just take knowing you're stealing royalties from the BDHs themselves every time you do this?

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

___________________________________________________
High Priestess of Pork and Ag-Related Activities of the MYTHICAL LAND OF IOWA

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

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Sunday, October 1, 2006 2:54 AM

MYCROFTXXX


Here's a scary thought. What if they don't stop at merchants of Firefly stuff? This web site, for instance, _could_ be served a C&D from F** unless the webmaster has already obtained a license to use images from the show.

I know a lot about this as I was a computer book editor and author which required me to request permission from software vendors (yes, even computer programs are covered by copyrights.)

As mentioned before, if a company does not defend their intellectual property, that's the proper name of this sort of thing, they pass their property into the public domain.

This isn't unlike a homeowner that let's a neigbor build a fence over a corner of their property. If they don't make an effort to have the neighbor move it then after a certain amount of time that property becomes their neighbor's (I had this happen to me in Florida.)

As much as I hate to say it, F** is correct. I expect Universal to do the same shortly.

EDIT: I just had a thought. If Firefly is a "dead" franchise despite the continued sales of the DVD set, maybe this is the first sign of activity by F** to resurrect the show. I'm an "up person" (don't ask my co-workers though) so I can only hope!

--

Given a choice between the earth-that-is and the 'verse-that-will-be I'll take the latter.

宁静

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Sunday, October 1, 2006 2:57 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by Grizwald:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I will continue to burn copies of Firefly for anyone who wants them* and I encourage everyone to do the same.




Oh now, that sucks! That ticks me off to no end. How can you possibly equate what you are doing with what the fansites and others (like BSS.com) are doing?

Not that anything I am saying here is likely to convince you, but shouldn't it just take knowing you're stealing royalties from the BDHs themselves every time you do this?



I agree with you 100%. I also earlier posted that if they liked it then they should buy it and show their support for Firefly, and I also mentioned that Joss should start his own network and have webcast episodes that the fans pay for, without advertising and without middlemen like FOX.... of course, as this smaller example points out, FOX would never allow that even though they obviously hated the show or what it stood for by the unprescedented careless way that they aired the episodes and destroyed the show. This show belongs to us, not FOX. One could argue that you're taking food out of the BDH's mouths by selling merchandise, such as shirts, on your own website too, if you weren't giving them royalties, which they apparently aren't being paid out or we wouldn't be writing this blog now. I don't believe Joss wouldn't let that happen if he didn't have to answer to greedy corporate pigs that are only concerned about the bottom line and how much of a bonus they're getting this year.

The wrong people are getting paid for this, and with the internet, they are antiquated and unnecessary. They realize this and that's what they're afraid of, and that's why there are all the lawsuits or threats therof today. They want to limit our ability to evolve and become part of the project ourselves, thereby eliminating the need for advertising to permiate everything around us, and more importantly, their own bloated and undiserved salaries.

Sorry to piss you off... thems the breaks.

width=150 height=200> "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, October 1, 2006 10:06 AM

WHOISRIVER


Quote:

This show belongs to us, not FOX.


Firefly is the property of 20th Century Fox. It does not belong to us. It's that simple.

In an ideal world, yes, Joss would producing media which he owns himself, but the reality is he doesn't do this. If Joss returns to TV, it has to be with Fox.

The reason Firefly exists is because of 20th Century Fox. The reason Buffy and Angel exist is because of 20th Century Fox. The reason Joss is a multi millionaire is also to do with Fox - aside from anything, they paid him.

Companies like Fox wouldn't be turning over the kind of money they do if they were giving shows away.

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Sunday, October 1, 2006 12:45 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


And that's satisfactory to you, even though FOX treats Firefly and Joss like abused stepchildren.....

It sounds to me like it's time for copyright laws to be rewritten.



"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, October 1, 2006 1:20 PM

WHOISRIVER


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
And that's satisfactory to you, even though FOX treats Firefly and Joss like abused stepchildren.....




Well, in fairness, FOX Broadcasting Corp (the network) and 20th Century Fox (the studio) are two different things. It was really FOX (the network) which didn't have a clue, and they aren't the ones who hold the copyright.

And I wouldn't call failure to market a show the same as child abuse. Well, not generally.

Copyright laws themselves aren't generally a problem, although over zealous corporations enforcing them can be.

At the end of the day, BlueSunShirts.com was making a profit from a show which 20th Century Fox own (and have legally sold the Tshirt license for). They can't moan too much.

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Sunday, October 1, 2006 2:10 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I can't believe the cavalier attitude that the proles take regarding putting a copyright stamp on creativity. Copyrights, when originally enforced, would expire. They were originally set up so somebody who created something would get their dues for it and then it would become public domain for others to shape and mold into the visions they had. And this, was a good thing. This was the age of experimentation and creativity of yesterday.

Today, copyrights are made forever, minus one day... whatever that means. Copyright holders (the ones with money) own rights to anything that we see or experience on TV or in the media in general today, while the people (the ones without money) are forced fed the garbage and if something they do like comes along, they have no control over it and they are forced to sit back and watch its premature demise, if that's what the powers that be desire.

Even the News (or the possibility of truth), it seems, is not immune to this copyright "protection". Recently Bill Clinton embarrassed FOX news during an interview and many people embedded the YouTube video of it in their Myspace profiles. (I personally would rather watch FOX News than CNN, as CNN is a bit too Communistic for my taste. This is not a FOX News bashing session from a loyal CNN enthusiast). These MySpace users were given cease and desist orders from FOX telling them to take the videos off of their sites or else legal actions would be taken against them. Try to find the video now. It was news... It was reported... nobody will remember it 5 years from now though because it has been all but wiped out of existance by the Ministry of Truth. Where is CNN now? Why aren't they reporting this... It would seem a prime oppurtunity to sling some rocks at FOX, but they can't for the very same reason people cannot show it: FOX owns the copyrights to that news and can decide if it even happened or not. One day, it may be a violation of copyrights for me to even talk about it, let alone show it.

I understand that there are legal blockades set in place now, but for sanity's sake, show a little outrage... or at the very least, some dismay about the slow death of creative thought, and OUR show. You sound like a robot when you spew your indoctrinated, Alliance rhetoric to me about copyrights. These laws are only blockades, and if the people should decide they are unnessary, they can be removed. If you wake up one day and freedom of speech has been sued out of existance, realize that it is your current way of thinking that has willingly allowed it to happen in the first place.


And regarding your quote "And I wouldn't call failure to market a show the same as child abuse. Well, not generally." You and I both know that this wasn't failure to market a show. This was either gross negligence and imcopentence, or there was a strong motive for somebody to bury this show... perhaps pressure from members of a certain administration who just so happens to be very Alliance minded. Never in history had a show been so abused.



"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, October 2, 2006 6:40 AM

MYCROFTXXX


As someone who holds several copyrights I can tell you that if you wrote a book, developed a show, or whatever and someone else profited from your original work you would not be very happy.

To answer the question about CNN, their hands are not tied when reporting the news. There is a clause in the copyright law called "fair use" where something that is newsworthy or is part of free speech you have limited right to use the material in some form. Mind you not all of the content.

As far as how long a copyright lasts I don't believe it is "forever" as stated. I could be wrong but I think it is 50 years after the principle holder of the copyright dies. I'm not sure how that works for corporations but I know I don't get to own it nor my heirs after that period of time. This is proven by the status of books by HG Wells and others that have passed into the public domain.

As much as we hate the situation, Fox (or Paramount, Universal, MCA, New York Times, Chicago Tribute, Nine Inch Nails, etc.) have final say how they use or license their intellectual property.

On a related note, I have noticed the licensed versions of Firefly/Serenity merchandise on other websites isn't any more expensive than that offered on Bluesunshirts.com or most of the cafepress-based products. Maybe Fox's licensing isn't that expensive.



--

Given a choice between the earth-that-is and the 'verse-that-will-be I'll take the latter.

宁静

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Monday, October 2, 2006 7:06 AM

WOLFEN68


To 6ixstringjack:

It's a personal moral decision to copy movies/music. However, copying something that is so obviously excellent (and yet on the ropes), is a crime to this community. This show needs our support for any hope of continuation.

I've been buying copies for everyone as gifts and doing what I can to keep the stakes high for the copyright owners....in the hope that something "Firefly" will continue...c'mon movie #2 at least!

Than people like you undermine that effort. If I were you, I'd be ashamed to post here.

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Monday, October 2, 2006 10:32 AM

WHOISRIVER


Quote:


I understand that there are legal blockades set in place now, but for sanity's sake, show a little outrage... or at the very least, some dismay about the slow death of creative thought, and OUR show.



I'm not going to show outrage, because I don't agree with you. It's that simple.

Firefly would *NOT* exist if the current copyright environment didn't exist, and Serenity would also *NOT* exist (Universal Licensing LLC bought the license from 20th Century Fox for the motion picture).

So, before I go tearing down that wall, I'm going to consider that. Do I consider fan websites getting C&Ds a bad thing? YES. Do I consider FOX enforcing their license sales for Firefly a bad thing? No.

It's not copyright law, overall, which is a problem.

I've no idea what an Alliance rhetroic for copyright is, especially since the Alliance is a fictional story device in Firefly. I can say this - I worked on the promotion for the movie, and none of you would be here if it wasn't for the corporate structure which exists around the shows.

What was part of the reason Universal went after Serenity as a movie so aggressively? The Firefly DVD sales. Is copying the series as a protest against copyright going to say 'Hey, there's an audience for this!'? Uhm, no.

Of course, I'm not saying corporations are all good things. Because they're not. They're, uhm, neccessary.

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Monday, October 2, 2006 5:00 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Wrong, wrong, wrong.... Who can change the minds of the indoctrinated?

I don't own copied versions of Firefly or Serenity. I copy them for friends to watch and leave the decision up to them if they want to buy it, which one has, and I've discussed this on another post. This is one more sale that wouldn't have been made if they didn't watch the copies I made for them.

I hear that Paris Hilton is trying to copyright the phrase "That's Hot".... and she'll probably get it. In 1989, Pat Riley trademarked the phrase "Three-peat" for commercial use and was able to collect royalties when the Bulls Threepeated in 1993. I realize that Threepeat is not a word, but this is just rediculous. How far do you propose we let this copyright BS go?

Careful.... One day you'll wake up and we'll all be talking Newspeak because thinking words have all been copyrighted and that would be double plus ungood.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, October 2, 2006 6:40 PM

JAYNESBOWIE


Ahhhh, I don't mean to be rude or anything, but since when have smuggling hot goods and underground dealings been against brown coat beliefs? I mean, that is what the crew DOES for a living aint tit?

Jayne: "Testing, testing. Captain, can you hear me?"
Mal: "I'm standing right here."
Jayne: "You're coming through good and loud."
Mal: " 'Cause I'm standing right here."

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Monday, October 2, 2006 6:50 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Hey JaynesBowie.... Thank you so much for that. It's something that I've been tempted to say each time I've posted on this and other threads about it, but I decided against it. I thought I was swimming in a sea of Alliance types. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that.

I'm all about spreading the signal, but the powers that be didn't properly market the show or the BDM. So if my means of spreading it are deemed unethical by the standards of the Alliance, well they can kiss my butt. I would think that the chance of making some potential buyers out of people who would normally not watch Sci-Fi channel by giving them a few burned DVD's is better than the zero chance otherwise. And then there's always the potential for those to spread the signal even further. Viral marketing is what I believe they're calling it now.

Sorry I can't afford to buy a TV series or movie for every friend I have. I don't make the big bucks and I refuse to be one of the millions of idiot Americans who are up to their eyeballs needless credit card debt for doing stupid things like buying DVD's they cannot afford. I've bought my copies and that's what matters. Now it's up to me to spread the signal in any way that I can, and this is the only means by which I have. I know I'm not the only one.

And I dare anyone of you to look at yourselves in the mirror and have the nerve to call yourselves righteous. You're all liars and scammers at some point in your lives to some degree. It's human nature. Judge not, lest thee be judged.



"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, October 3, 2006 5:09 AM

DRAGONESS


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Copyright law is the worst sin against mankind.



I have to disagree with you there. Just because somebody uses the law in a way that you don't like doesn't make it wrong.

I'm a graphic designer. Without the protection of copyright law, I'd be starving to death. Even though I completely loathe FOX, I believe so strongly in the protection of intellectual properties that I will defend even FOX in their right to take action against violators.

That said, I think they're total morons for simply trying to wipe out sites that are using their product. First of all, it's impossible to find and eliminate every single violation. Second, they could have their cake and eat it, too, if they would just negotiate a license with BlueSunShirts. That way, Fox gets to regulate the use of their property AND gets their proper cut of the asking price. Plus, they don't have to deal with putting together a distribution system, because it's already in place. And the fans get what they want as well.

But who ever accuse FOX of being smart?

Dragoness

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Tuesday, October 3, 2006 7:22 AM

WOLFEN68


6ixstringjack:

I have to assure you that I don't count myself among the ranks of the righteous.

I'm to the extreme in my dislike for DRM and the erosion of fair use rights. If I bought a DVD, how come I can't make a copy for my sister if she's immediate family? When I was a kid, me and friends would all chip in for one music LP, than make copies on cassette tape for each of us to listen to.

At that time, it never occurred to any of us that this would be considered wrong by anybody...after all, why did they sell blank tapes?

In the case of Firefly, my thinking is a little different because I'm so avidly "into it" and hopeful there could be....something...more. In this case, I've worked hard to spread the signal and show the powers-that-be that there is money in this franchise.

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 6:26 AM

SLGN


Quote:

Originally posted by mycroftxxx:
As far as how long a copyright lasts I don't believe it is "forever" as stated. I could be wrong but I think it is 50 years after the principle holder of the copyright dies. I'm not sure how that works for corporations...

When it is an individual who holds the copyright, it is X years (50?) from that person's death. As I understand it copyright, in this case a work for hire, is 75 years from date of publication or 100 years from creation, whichever is shorter.

______________________________________
Got Scape? Farscape now in syndication http://www.farwhat.com/

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 12:09 PM

DRAGONESS


Quote:

Originally posted by slgn:
Quote:

Originally posted by mycroftxxx:
As far as how long a copyright lasts I don't believe it is "forever" as stated. I could be wrong but I think it is 50 years after the principle holder of the copyright dies. I'm not sure how that works for corporations...

When it is an individual who holds the copyright, it is X years (50?) from that person's death. As I understand it copyright, in this case a work for hire, is 75 years from date of publication or 100 years from creation, whichever is shorter.



Copyright can also be renewed by the current copyright holder.

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Thursday, October 5, 2006 1:05 PM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE


Okay, I just have to add this:


------

"The answers we find are never what we had in mind."


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Friday, October 20, 2006 1:36 AM

FLATTOP


Anyone know where BlueSunShirts is meatspace located? Just a country would be fine. I ordered a few shirts before they closed (closed Oct. 8) and have been waiting not so patiently for them to arrive...

----------
Do you know what your sin is Captain?
Aww hell, I'm a big fan of all seven.

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Thursday, October 26, 2006 3:43 PM

LAUGHINGMUSE


I ordered two shirts from them on October 6th. I just received both today. The shirts are fine - but it did take this long for the shirts to reach me. I'm on the west coast and the envelope's return address was in Texas USA.

Have a little more patience, FlatTop - your shirts will probably show up tomorrow.

---------------------------------
Mankind makes tools; we use them to augment our hands, arms and legs.
The computer augments the brain and this makes it very unpopular with totalitarians. - Charles J.C. Lyall

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Thursday, October 26, 2006 5:17 PM

DREAMWALKER


You know someone really needs to explain to the Fox execs the meaning of the words losing gracefully. As in just because they f***ed up royally and have just now realized it there's no point in being petty. Which is what this is all about. They messed up, and now that they've found out that alot of people actually love the BDS and the BDM and are willing to buy merchandise from both and they want to make the money from it. And unfortunately although they are small brained morons, they are small brained morons with copyright laws in their favor. Which sucks for us because I seriously doubt that Fox's goal (after shutting down all of these places) is to market their own Firefly merchandise.

Sorry bout the rant. I spent a long day at work dealing with stupid people, and now I'm seeing there are even stupider people out there. I mean I already knew the Fox execs were idiots but this is a whole new level of stupidity.

"You're talking to Serenity. And Early...Serenity is very unhappy."

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Friday, October 27, 2006 12:34 AM

BROWNCOAT555



While I'm not crazy about these crackdowns on Firefly/Serenity fandom merchandise, I think it does actually suggest that the Suits now know the commercial potential of the franchise and want to tap in.

It ultimately suggests that the franchise is certainly not dead.


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