GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Religions/Beliefs of Browncoats

POSTED BY: ENGINEANGEL
UPDATED: Sunday, October 29, 2006 18:14
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Thursday, August 17, 2006 6:22 PM

ADAMWANKENOBI


I'm an agnostic, and proud of it!

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 7:11 PM

ENGINEANGEL


Quote:

That reminds me of a funny story, is it true that a few years back, a ton of Star Wars fans in Britain found the minimum number of people required for a practicing religion, and got Jedi to become a religion in the next census? I think it's true, but maybe some of our brits know more about it than I... maybe we should all put Browncoat on our censuses....


LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! count me in!!

Quote:

I love these discussions like the one we are having here. But when the majority of the people around you are one religion, a discussion quickly turns into a pissing match (now im talking about when *I* have conversations with people in my town).


yep, I've experienced that and I quickly turned and ran out of that conversation, cause that's not what I want when I discuss this stuff. So I understand what you're saying, I was merely saying what I thought in discussions when one is around this sort of crowd, and the sort of crowds that are understanding and want only to expand their knowledge.

Oh and I second yinyang's:

Quote:

That is a really neat religion, RJ.

::isn't sure if that was a joke, and doesn't want to offend anybody::




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Thursday, August 17, 2006 7:40 PM

ROCKETJOCK


Okay, for the record, "Herbie" was a rather unique little comic book published by the American Comic Group back in the 1950's-1960's. Most of the company's output was fairly bland, but "Herbie" had a blend of quirkiness and non-sequitor humor that made it a cult favorite whose legend extends to the present day.

If you want more information, check out Wikipedia's entry for "Herbie Popnecker", or Don Markstein's Toonopedia entry for "Herbie". I'd post a link to each, but I don't know how, and my more computer-literate offspring is in bed right now.

At some point in the 1970's, L.A. area SF fan Elliot Weinstein (AKA "Elst") founded the Church of Herbangelism as a fannish religion. The offical slogans "Sugetor Sternum Natum" and "Sanctum Molum" translate from the Latin as "Born Again Sucker" and "Holy Moley", respectively.

As for my actual religion (assuming I'm not serious about Herbangelism--I'm not always sure myself), I refer to myself as the world's only Pagan Agnostic. I don't just doubt the existence of God; I doubt the existence of all the Gods, in alphabetical order, beginning with Allah and ending with Zeus. Gotta cover all the bases...

Religion is just too important a subject to take seriously.

"Religion easily has the best bullshit story of all time. Think about it. Religion has convinced people that there's an invisible man... living in the sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn't want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you. He loves you and he needs money. " ~George Carlin

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 7:44 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Lol! I like that quote a lot. Thanks for clearing up the confusion, as well.

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:27 PM

ENGINEANGEL


Heh, thanx for clearing that up! Hey, ya learn something new everyday! and now when i go on milllionare and they ask me about Herbangelism....well I'll still get it wrong cause that's how I am, but I'll have that nagging thought in the back of my mind that I know the answer!!


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Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:31 PM

CALIFORNIAKAYLEE


I've only skimmed the thread, but I thought I'd pop in and add my bit. I was raised LDS (Mormon), but I'm working towards converting to Judaism. I'm loving the journey -- both the spiritual learning and the cooking learning! I've been trying out whatever traditional Jewish recipes I can get my hands on. I passed my challah bread recipe on to my sister, who's been making it up at BYU. And my husband is a big fan of my mashed-potatoes-mix latkes. Not what I'd call "traditional", but hey, only requires dry potato flakes, milk, and butter, and it's kosher, so who am I to complain?

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:51 PM

SHINYALORA


Well I'm a bit late to this thread but you've all got an awesome discussion going so I figured I'd add my own beliefs in here. I am very interested in others religions and theyre beliefs as well so it has been very very interesting to hear all of your ideas on the subject.

I was raised conservative jewish, and many of my beliefs and morals are along those lines. I'm am still a part of the culture that comes with Judaism, and still like many of the laws and traditions that come with it, but I'm not really into the religion part anymore.

I believe that there is something out there greater than us, but I'm really not sure what or who that is. I'm also not sure how involved in everyday life any higher power would be, or if theyre that powerful how interested theyd even be in us.

At the same time though, I am very unhappy with the way all organized religions are handling things right now, and where they seem to be headed. I have a huge fear of anything that wants you to blindy believe and follow without thinking for yourself, and of anything that condemns people who question, or have other beliefs. There is generally less of this in Judaism from what I've seen, but even there it's been more present in recent years, at least around here.

So, anyway, in the end I've come to the conclusion that I am a Jewish Agnostic, and that even though at first it sounds like a contradiction, because Judaism is as much a culture as a religion it works out. Or it does for me anyway, and I'll figure out the rest of my feelings or beliefs from there as I go along I guess. Like many others have said I think it's great that people have faith and that it helps them through, and I sometimes wish I still could feel that way, but it just isn't really something I need, and lately all organized religion has made me feel is uncomfortable. For those that do like it, good for you, enjoy it and use it to be a good person. I have no issue with anyone or with what they believe, and I love having discussions about it, as long as no one tries to force theyre beliefs on me or condemn me for my own. As far as I'm concerned, treat others as you want to be treated and all is well.

Love all you wonderful and open minded Browncoats, and sorry for the long windedness.

Stay Shiny,
Aubrey

Edit: PS to all of those who have mentioned Jewish foods, I'm with you. Latkes, Kugel, and Challah are absolutely wonderfull. mmmmm.

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Friday, August 18, 2006 12:19 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by Qwertyuiopasd:
I'll take the Flying Spaghetti Monster, thankee.


Arr!

http://www.venganza.org/

This really is a great discussion. Can't claim I read it word for word, but what I read through is a great discussion!
Oh, and I forgot to mention I've also been accused of being Gnosic and Taoist. I guess those fit me pretty well, too, at least parts do


Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Gautama Siddharta

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Friday, August 18, 2006 12:42 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Quote:

Originally posted by CaliforniaKaylee:
I've only skimmed the thread, but I thought I'd pop in and add my bit. I was raised LDS (Mormon), but I'm working towards converting to Judaism. I'm loving the journey -- both the spiritual learning and the cooking learning! I've been trying out whatever traditional Jewish recipes I can get my hands on. I passed my challah bread recipe on to my sister, who's been making it up at BYU. And my husband is a big fan of my mashed-potatoes-mix latkes. Not what I'd call "traditional", but hey, only requires dry potato flakes, milk, and butter, and it's kosher, so who am I to complain?

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...



Mmmm... Jewish cooking... *drools*




More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Friday, August 18, 2006 1:34 AM

STINKINGROSE


Pastafarians unite!!
Hey, at least the Kansas State BOE got a few more moderate people voted in this time around.

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Friday, August 18, 2006 2:13 AM

ESTHER


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Quote:

Originally posted by windie:
nothing like "worshipping" the human body.


I think it's a temple, does that count?
Not sure which of my belief structures that came from.



Although it's not mentioned in your set of believes - it's "Paulisic"(he wrote it in Romans or Korinthians. I can look it up, if you care).
Hope, you're not offended now ...
Esther


Love my captain!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 3:06 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Oh goody! A new one to add to my list!
...I've never heard of it, though. Maybe I should look it up.

Quote:

Originally posted by stinkingrose:
Pastafarians unite!!


Ramen, sister!


Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Gautama Siddharta

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Friday, August 18, 2006 3:09 AM

ESTHER


Quote:

I must wax on because I'm having new thoughts (ouch!) Science is based on observations of nature, which can be controlled and repeated. Religion is, maybe??, based on the experiences of people, the emotional and spiritual insides of human beings, and no way is that repeatable. And no way should it be!



Hi Mal4Prez,
I guess, that summs up pretty well the problem with faith/science. If God exists, is he more like a "methaphysical law of nature", that we can "prove" or "misprove" (ist there such a word?), or is he more like a "person", that we can relate to, have experiences with and get loved from.
Its just totally diametrical concepts ...


Love my captain!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 3:20 AM

ESTHER


Quote:

Originally posted by nvghostrider:

When people need constant reminders of what to do and what not to do, they get tired of hearing it.

But maybe what should be taught is morals. Seems alot of them are being lost.




Huh? Contradiction?

But whow, an american "Native"! I grew up wearing Indian-costumes on Halloween (or the German version of it, anyways). Most Germans grew up with a very positive attitude towards "american Indians", since we have a somewhat popular writer (Karl May), who wrote "travel stories" about travels in America (he never did travel, though). He was born in 1842, but there are still movies made about the caracters, he created (among them some very popular "Indians" - the most popular role was plaid by a frenchman, though - ah, all mixed up.).

Just thought, you might find that's fun to know...
Esther



Love my captain!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 3:54 AM

ESTHER


What is or was "RWED" ????
Esther


Love my captain!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 3:57 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Real World Event Discussions


Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Gautama Siddharta

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Friday, August 18, 2006 4:16 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Esther:
Quote:

I must wax on because I'm having new thoughts (ouch!) Science is based on observations of nature, which can be controlled and repeated. Religion is, maybe??, based on the experiences of people, the emotional and spiritual insides of human beings, and no way is that repeatable. And no way should it be!



Hi Mal4Prez,
I guess, that summs up pretty well the problem with faith/science. If God exists, is he more like a "methaphysical law of nature", that we can "prove" or "misprove" (ist there such a word?), or is he more like a "person", that we can relate to, have experiences with and get loved from.
Its just totally diametrical concepts ...



Good point. Continuing with my new thoughts (so much more fun than working...) Maybe God is both of these things you say, because he/she/it is whatever a person wants and needs, and there are soooo many people.

I like how Tristan said it, way up the thread. Something about how we create God, but the God we create can do wonderful things for us. As long as we understand that the God we each believe in is ours, and not necessarily anyone else's.

Which differs from science, because science is the same for everyone. Anyone who holds out a rock and lets go will see it drop according to gravity. Nothing personal about that!

Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Quote:

Originally posted by stinkingrose:
Pastafarians unite!!


Ramen, sister!



Bwah! You guys kill me!


-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Friday, August 18, 2006 4:51 AM

ESTHER


Quote:


I understand what you’re saying but actually, Judaism was not created by man; it was created by God. That is, God wrote the Torah and basically created the religion. Of course, that depends on faith as well. Just saying. Of course, the Torah and Judaism in general is all about interpretation, so…technically, some of the different aspects of the religion could be false. But the basis is said to come straight from God. Again, totally based on faith.



Well, that's just the point of all three "revelationary" religions. Jesus is said to "be God himself" and the Koran (or Q'ran or how you spell it) is believed by moslems to be originally dictated by God. That's why a true Moslem can only read it in Arabic language ('caus everything else would falsify the word of God).
So there you go ...
Esther


Love my captain!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 5:04 AM

ENGINEANGEL


Quote:

originally posted by mal4prez:
I like how Tristan said it, way up the thread. Something about how we create God, but the God we create can do wonderful things for us. As long as we understand that the God we each believe in is ours, and not necessarily anyone else's.



ooo, i like that too!

oh and...um...people? all this talking about jewish foods is making me drool!!! they are taking over my brain!!! ....can't...stop...drooling.... sigh, well there goes my diet...


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Friday, August 18, 2006 5:46 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER


Mornin' all.

Thanks Esther for mentioning Karl May.
I did not mention that I am Native American, (though I prefer indian or native, stupid political correctiness).

As for "be God himself", I think that may have been twisted by too many folks in the past. But logical, loving folks can really benefit from it.
Glad to see you made it out of troll country. Might wanna get a checkup ASAP.





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Friday, August 18, 2006 5:49 AM

ESTHER


I agree with you (all), that no-one wants to have someone others faith forced on him. However, tolerance is easy, as long as you don't care ...

Let me clarify my point with a (personal) story:

When my mother became sick of cancer, my father (being a preachers son) lost his faith. When my mother was dying (we papmered her for about 6 months and she died at home), her faith gave her a lot of strength (that's what a faith should do, is it?) I did some praying with her, but my father just couldn't.

I remember a day, when she laid there wheeping, saying, that she was so scared, that she might be in heaven and he might never come.

Granted, there are may people, who try to "convince" others, because they just cannot bear the thought that there might be another truth (and their own believes might be wrong). They are "missionnaries" for their own sake. But sometimes, it's just because you love sombody, and you believe in heaven, and you want him to go there too.

The question is: is my belive just a way of living, or do I think, it's the truth (with all my heart, thoughts and actions).

Just a thought ...
Esther


Love my captain!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 6:17 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER


That is a question of faith. We are human. We have doubts and it happens. But the way a person live is also the way a person dies. Though some die in very violent ways, most are able to release without pain if they are at peace with themselves.
And it does go both ways, especially when comforting another person. The main thing is that you loved them in this life as well as the next.
CaliforniaKaylee mentioned that she was (raised?) LDS. My little brother has found peace there. I feel bad for him. Not because he cannot drink, smoke, or get tattoo's, but because of the guilt he feels over not being able to convert me and the rest of the family. I really felt bad about this after he returned from his mission. He'd done a very good job in Detroit of all places. But he knows what will happen to my soul according to his beliefs. He also knows that I am the kind of person to accept whatever consequences for my actions. He loves me and believes I am good. Almost in tears thinking how that makes him feel.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Heaven is for the deserving. No one should be denied. Possibly put on hold for purification, but not denied.



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Friday, August 18, 2006 7:10 AM

LIUYAN


another "new/old age" hippie here... i prefer "tree hugging dirt worshipper" :P

with a sprinkling of buddhism and a pinch of gnostic/mystical christianity for flavor.

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Friday, August 18, 2006 7:11 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Esther:
I remember a day, when she laid there wheeping, saying, that she was so scared, that she might be in heaven and he might never come.



Esther - that's heartbreaking! It's really, really hard. What a horrible situation for all of you to be in.

I hope I'm not saying anothing to offend you, but your story is a grievance I have with religion. It lets someone believe that she'll be parted with the man she loves just because he won't, or can't, pray.

The rules of religion can get too rigid, and don't allow for humans to be human. I wish your mom could have been sure that no God would be cruel enough to keep her apart from your father.

** Imagine huggy emoticon here **

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Friday, August 18, 2006 7:12 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Quote:

Originally posted by LiuYan:
another "new/old age" hippie here... i prefer "tree hugging dirt worshipper" :P

with a sprinkling of buddhism and a pinch of gnostic/mystical christianity for flavor.



I knew I wasn't the only one!

*hugs LiuYan*




More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Friday, August 18, 2006 7:19 AM

CALIFORNIAKAYLEE


Yeah, NV, I was raised LDS, and I know the guilt you speak of. I realized that it wasn't the religion for me when I was 15, but it's been a long 10 years since then, to finally come to Judaism. And my family has never "given up hope" on me, which is difficult to handle sometimes. I remember late in my high school years, watching Fiddler on the Roof, which is one of my mother's favorite movies (my family feels a very close kinship with Judaism, which means that in some ways, it's easier for them to handle this choice than if I had chosen any other religion). Anyway, during the Chava ballet sequence in Fiddler, I just broke down crying, because I knew I was going to do that to my parents.

In some ways, I'm thankful that it has taken me as long as it has, because it means that my family has had a long time to get used to the idea. It's not a sudden break with the family, it's been a slow process of asserting my difference of opinion in this one area, while growing closer in other areas. I cried during that scene in Fiddler because I saw (and still do see) my father as very similar to Tevya, and I knew I'd be breaking his heart. At the time, we didn't have a close relationship at all, but in the 7 years since I first went away to college, we have gotten very, very close. I've worked at the same companies as him, sharing rides in the morning, he set me up on my first date with my husband, and for the past three and half years I've been working for his company. I can honestly say that outside of my husband, my dad is my best friend. Seven years ago, I never would have thought that possible.

I know my parents still pray that I will come back to the LDS church, but I think there is a level of respect between us now. I've never tried to talk any of my five younger siblings out of the LDS church, and they see how happy Judaism is making me. It's difficult, but it's not the relationship-destroying process I had feared it would be.

And while I have my own issues with the LDS church, I can see that it makes my family happy. It helps them to live clean, family focused lives, keeps them involved in charity, and gives them a religious community, which are all things that I prize. But I do wish I could convince them that they don't need to worry about that fate of my soul. Thankfully, like I said, there's a high level of respect for Judaism in my family (they even celebrate Hanukkah, because as my mother says, "It's one of God's miracles"). I haven't ever questioned them on the issue, but now that I think about it, they may be convinced that once I officially convert to Judaism, I'll be fine with God. They respect God's covenant with the Jewish people that much.

Anyway, I wanted include one other reply here...
Quote:

So, anyway, in the end I've come to the conclusion that I am a Jewish Agnostic

Aubrey, if you get a chance, you might want to check out Reconstructionist synagogues. I'm still new to all of this, but the synagogue that I've been attending is Reconstructionist, and while we do the prayers all in Hebrew, the emphasis on God is much different than what I've found in other movements. There are more than a few "Jewish Agnostics" in the congregation, as well as Jewish Humanists, Jewish Deists, a whole range of beliefs that de-emphasize God as an anthropomorphic being. And then there's the other end of the spectrum, people who hold nearly Hasidic beliefs, but believe that the Law is changing and changeable, and who have found a home with Reconstructionism.

In short, there's an emphasis on the traditions, on being and acting Jewish, but God's nature and role in the world is seen significantly differently from the other movements, from what I've learned thus far. Maybe something to check out?

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Friday, August 18, 2006 7:34 AM

SAHARA


I was raised Catholic, I'm an atheist now. I don't have a problem with other people and their religions (until they get pushy about it). Everyone is entitled to their own belief systems. I checked out Wicca/Paganism for a while, I like the whole nature thing, but atheist suits me for now.

Interesting thread.

I used to be an agnostic, dyslexic, insomniac. I'd stay awake nights wondering if there was a dog.





Sahara
Blackbird fly into the light of the dark, black night.

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Friday, August 18, 2006 7:43 AM

MAVOURNEEN


There is a book, called The Lovely Bones by Alice Sebold in which the author writes of a young woman going to her Heaven after her death.

Everyone's Heaven was different, but if your idea of what is Heaven intersects with someone else's idea of Heaven, you would meet.
So...if your idea of Heaven is living by the beach, and your Mom's idea of Heaven is living in Inner Mongolia, you would never meet again in Heaven.

I was captured by this book, and loved the idea of a personal Heaven.
I guess why I'm posting is that I have always felt religious tolerance towards just about everyone and everything, because my religion is mine, and its personal. Yours is your own, and personal. If they intersect, fine. If not...that's okay too.

"Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?"

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Friday, August 18, 2006 7:47 AM

SAHARA


Quote:

Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
Quote:

Originally posted by CaliforniaKaylee:
I've only skimmed the thread, but I thought I'd pop in and add my bit. I was raised LDS (Mormon), but I'm working towards converting to Judaism. I'm loving the journey -- both the spiritual learning and the cooking learning! I've been trying out whatever traditional Jewish recipes I can get my hands on. I passed my challah bread recipe on to my sister, who's been making it up at BYU. And my husband is a big fan of my mashed-potatoes-mix latkes. Not what I'd call "traditional", but hey, only requires dry potato flakes, milk, and butter, and it's kosher, so who am I to complain?

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...



Mmmm... Jewish cooking... *drools*





My boyfriend is Jewish. He says that if I ever wanted to convert, I'd be a shoo in with my brisket!



Sahara
Blackbird fly into the light of the dark, black night.

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Friday, August 18, 2006 8:00 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Quote:

I used to be an agnostic, dyslexic, insomniac. I'd stay awake nights wondering if there was a dog.


::giggles::

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 10:00 AM

DONCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Mavourneen:
There is a book, called The Lovely Bones by Alice Sebold in which the author writes of a young woman going to her Heaven after her death.

Everyone's Heaven was different, but if your idea of what is Heaven intersects with someone else's idea of Heaven, you would meet.
So...if your idea of Heaven is living by the beach, and your Mom's idea of Heaven is living in Inner Mongolia, you would never meet again in Heaven.

Okay... so what if Jill's idea of heaven is to spend eternity with Jack, but Jack's idea of heaven is to never see Jill again? Sounds like Jill gets the shaft, as it were...

How about this: everybody gets to spend eternity in their own idea of heaven, regardless of anybody else's beliefs. So Jill spends eternity with Jack and Jack spends eternity without Jill. No reason to think that's illogical in the afterlife.

Personally, I think death is the end... dreamless sleep forever. But I guess I could be surprised. Just hope it's not an unpleasant surprise.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 11:39 AM

CHEWIE


I don't really label myself or my beliefs, but if forced I claim Pagan/Wiccan. I've been to every type of church, synagogue, temple... you name it and I've tried it. Nothing felt right to me until I was invited to sit with a coven.

Blessed be.

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Friday, August 18, 2006 12:02 PM

PAGANPAUL


I'm a follower of Cthulhu.



* - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *

* - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *

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Friday, August 18, 2006 12:03 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Good choice, PP.

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 12:25 PM

FREDGIBLET


Quote:

Originally posted by PaganPaul:
I'm a follower of Cthulhu.





Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

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Friday, August 18, 2006 12:34 PM

MSG


PaganPaul- we have that bumper sticker:) Hey have you seen Hellboy( the movie) it's got some great elder gods:)

See that individual heaven thing coincides nicely with my theory that god is loving and accepts all people who followed their beliefs.

I just love that we can all discuss this and every single one of us has been adult enough to be respectful and debate/discuss their own feelings without an sense of ridicule or problem...We all deserve a big HUG





I choose to rise instead of fall- U2


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Friday, August 18, 2006 1:20 PM

SERYN


Ah, here we go - little miss Kitty, meet the pigeons...

I apologise in advance if this offends everyone, and if you think about it, it will, but its the only honest answer I can give at this point.

I actually think that religion is the single biggest clog tied to the foot of the donkey that is mankind. It is our, as a race, biggest weakness, the one thing that will separate us all for as long as it exists and continue to be the biggest source of pain, suffering and misery until the point where we can evolve beyond it.

Its a very intolerent view - i'd like to see all religion disappear without a trace as soon as possible. And I try daily to find a reason to reverse it, but sadly all that occurs simply re-enforces it.

That said, I understand, as well as I, indifferently educated as I am, can, why religion evolved, why so many still find it so necessary, and why it will probably exist as long as humans do. So i'm resigned to it.

A lot of religous people are human, civilised and enlightened people, same as some are psychopaths and air thieves, but those people would be exactly the same where they religious or not - they would simply have a different outlet for their philanthropy or mania, so the religion may as well not exist - I have no faith in religions redeeming abilities. A person is what a person is - their natural traits will out no matter what, and they will mould their religion in the image that suits and makes sense to them.

My faith (and I have no problem with faith, I believe that a certain amount of faith is necessary to everyone in every aspect of their lives, from faith that things will get better to faith that the abseiling rope you are hanging off is strong enough) is in the human being. On this planet we are something of a unique species, we have developed sophisicated systems of communication, we explore our world through art and science, and we've managed, for the most part, to trancend our animal instincts to become a 'civilisation'.

Which is why I chav-bash so much - despite this belief in human potentianl, i have daily proof of how large sections of society are blindly squandering it by willfully perverting the sucesses of other and stagnating in the banal and petty. And most of the time they absolutely sicken me in their total uselesness as a human being, and the fact that they are spoiling future generations. (and spawning at such an alarming rate!)

As for specifics - I believe in the scientists view of the world, the big bang, evolution, etc, I realise in some ways this is just as much a religion as other - large parts of it are little more than theory, and as all pervasive as it is, by some, it could be seen as the most insidious religion, taught as it is as absolute fact to our children from their earliest years.



But it works for me - i need logic, it need to make sense to me on a level that i don't even conciously know about - gods, angels, reincarnation, heaven, hell, valhalla, the devil... they're ok for others, but in my "soul" they have little more relevance to my life than bedtime stories. (though I do have a soft spot for fairys - when little if we lost something, we would stop and ask the fairy's to bring it back, and the fact that more often than not it seemed to work means that i occaisionally still do it. I never said i was rational or consistent)

So...

again 'pologies, and also, if someone has basically already said the same thing, I do apologies, but the thread was so long i admit i did the bad thing and started skimming, i intend to go back and read properly tomorrow.

This, is a great quote >

Quote:

Originally posted by bigdamntexan:
"while your treating yours like a temple,
I'm treating mine like an amusement park"



And how funny is it that at the same time as a deep and meaningful about religion, we're also discussing Nates family jewels?

Is there an official title for the Firefly groupie? Was BDWhore ever sanctioned?

http://www.myspace.com/seryndippyt

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Friday, August 18, 2006 1:32 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


You didn't offend my, seryn! In fact, I agree with you about 99.99% of it (if I agree all the way, my identity will be in question - are we the same person? - and stuff).

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 1:50 PM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Did someone mention Nathan's family jewels?




More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Friday, August 18, 2006 3:05 PM

ESTHER


Just popped in at the end of my day for another quick reading and posting.

Some of you might have missunderstood my intentions about heaven before. If there's a heaven, I don't think God would deny my father going there. I think, my father just don't want to, and in my conception of God, he respects our decisions. "The other side" (hell) I don't imagine to be all fire and suflur. It's just, being away from God, and if someone chooses to be there, God will not force him into his presence. That's all.

But that's just idle thoughts. We'll see, what's up at this other side in a few years anyways.

There's another interesting thought about heaven:
If heaven is a perfect place, and I go there - well, then it won't be perfect anymore ...

Whole strange concept this heaven thing.

Going to bed now ...
Esther


Love my captain!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 3:26 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Im a fallen christian. Which for all of you who dont speak vinterdraken means that I used to be christian and have a christian upbringing but had my faith janked out of me and lost it all somewhere along the way, now im mostly dissillusioned when it comes to religions, afterlife and such. All I have is this small grain of hope nurtured in the very heart of my being that there will be something somehow after this mortal husk finally gives in to time.


You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 3:26 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Im a fallen christian. Which for all of you who dont speak vinterdraken means that I used to be christian and have a christian upbringing but had my faith janked out of me and lost it all somewhere along the way, now im mostly dissillusioned when it comes to religions, afterlife and such. All I have is this small grain of hope nurtured in the very heart of my being that there will be something somehow after this mortal husk finally gives in to time.


You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 3:26 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Im a fallen christian. Which for all of you who dont speak vinterdraken means that I used to be christian and have a christian upbringing but had my faith janked out of me and lost it all somewhere along the way, now im mostly dissillusioned when it comes to religions, afterlife and such. All I have is this small grain of hope nurtured in the very heart of my being that there will be something somehow after this mortal husk finally gives in to time.


You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 3:26 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Im a fallen christian. Which for all of you who dont speak vinterdraken means that I used to be christian and have a christian upbringing but had my faith janked out of me and lost it all somewhere along the way, now im mostly dissillusioned when it comes to religions, afterlife and such. All I have is this small grain of hope nurtured in the very heart of my being that there will be something somehow after this mortal husk finally gives in to time.


You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 3:26 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Im a fallen christian. Which for all of you who dont speak vinterdraken means that I used to be christian and have a christian upbringing but had my faith janked out of me and lost it all somewhere along the way, now im mostly dissillusioned when it comes to religions, afterlife and such. All I have is this small grain of hope nurtured in the very heart of my being that there will be something somehow after this mortal husk finally gives in to time.


You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 3:26 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Im a fallen christian. Which for all of you who dont speak vinterdraken means that I used to be christian and have a christian upbringing but had my faith janked out of me and lost it all somewhere along the way, now im mostly dissillusioned when it comes to religions, afterlife and such. All I have is this small grain of hope nurtured in the very heart of my being that there will be something somehow after this mortal husk finally gives in to time.


You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 3:27 PM

TRAVELER


I don't know that your post was that long Seryn. My post was awful long and I just discovered I spelled "believe" wrong through the whole thing. But I'm not about to count the words to see who is longest. You owe no one an apology. I have been told I'm going to hell because I don't believe in a "proper" religion. But you said it yourself, their are followers of Christian, Judian, and Islamic faiths that don't condemn. I have a friend who is of the Druid faith. Another who is a Christian minister and gay. The world has room for us all. I must admit I have never met so many athiests. We don't get many in these parts. But of course athiests don't exactly build a lot of churches do they. So I am probably surrounded by them and ignorant of it.

I'm saving myself up for the Santa Claus thread.

Traveler

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Friday, August 18, 2006 5:01 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Santa Claus? You mean FMF is getting another thread?

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Friday, August 18, 2006 6:01 PM

CEDRIC


I'm an eclectic solitary Wiccan. I was with a coven for a while, but we're all so busy that we hardly get together any more.

I believe that our rational and intuitive faculties can work together to give us a more complete picture of reality. Then again, I believe that reality is totally subjective.

There's a Jewish folktale about religion I've loved ever since I first heard it. A spiritual seeker goes to a rabbi and says, "Explain your religion while standing on one foot. If you are still talking when you put your foot down, your religion is too complicated."

The rabbi lifted his foot and replied, "Treat others the way you would like to be treated. Everything else is extra."

So that's my short answer. For more info on my beliefs, read my spirituality blog at www.neopaganthoughts.blogspot.com

BTW, I too am really impressed by how cool this discussion has been.

"Some things stay with you, 'til the day you die."
On the Drift: Music Inspired by Firefly and Serenity, now on sale at
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bedlambards/from/celtic

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Friday, August 18, 2006 7:44 PM

TRAVELER


Hello Yinyang:

I noticed your post. Were you responding to me because I did not get an Email telling of your reply. Tristan sent a post not to long ago that he was not getting Emails informing him of replys and I'm wondering if that isn't happening to me.

I don't think anyone is going start a thread about Santa Claus. But In all seriousness the spirit of giving, that Santa Claus represents, is a nice thing to believe in.

Traveler

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Saturday, August 19, 2006 8:38 AM

ENGINEANGEL


I like your spirituality blog cedric! thanks for linking.

And I have to say, this group has been the best I've ever discussed religions with. Thanks guys for making this such a shiny and nice discussion!


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Saturday, August 19, 2006 9:26 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


Quote:

Hello Yinyang:

I noticed your post. Were you responding to me because I did not get an Email telling of your reply. Tristan sent a post not to long ago that he was not getting Emails informing him of replys and I'm wondering if that isn't happening to me.

I don't think anyone is going start a thread about Santa Claus. But In all seriousness the spirit of giving, that Santa Claus represents, is a nice thing to believe in.

Traveler



I was just being silly.

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:43 AM

WOLFPOET


I'm a UU (Unitarian Universalist). As for my personal beliefs, they're mostly based on Native American religion, except a little more scientific, and there's also some paganism sprinkled in there. I'm celebrating Samhain this year, with some slight adaptions.
In addition, I'm probably going to join the WPM ( www.pantheism.net).

"We will rule over all this land, and we will call it... This Land."
"I think we should call it YOUR GRAVE!"
"Curse you, sudden yet inevitable betrayal."

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Sunday, October 29, 2006 5:02 PM

FREERADICAL42


With a background in theology from 12 years of Yeshiva education, and a high-powered science college, I've got some..."unique" religious beliefs.

I've called what I believe "Rational Judaism"; I believe in active thinking and criticism of one's religion. I believe in G-d, the G-d of Abraham, because I've convinced myself that this deity exists and is who He claims to be.

I keep His laws as they were communicated, and I think about their interactions with each other to make sure I am still maintaining coherence with my initial axioms.

You could say that I don't have a lot of faith; I think that blind faith is just ignorance, and while I respect people who are capable of that, it's just not something I can deal with.

Especially, I am against a few things that characterise current Orthodox Judaism:

1) Unwillingness to criticise traditions, customs, and interpretations that may run counter to the Torah because they have been done for so long.
2) Treatment of women. However they choose to reconcile it (and I've heard all of the arguments), I just can't accept this as fair.
3) Harsh judgment of others for their beliefs.

I wish that we could live in a world where everyone thought critically about their religions, didn't sweat it much when someone messed up about an element of relgion, and generally got along with each other by using their brains in conjunction with their hearts. Like my Rabbis have reminded me time and again, the longest distance in the human body runs between the head and the heart. I wish that it were not so hard to cross.

Spiritually, I believe in something that's a mix and match of (real) Kabbalistic mysticism and Sufi teachings. If you don't know what these are, the journey isn't for me to start you on. If you do, then you'll know what I'm talking about.

Scientifically, I support analysis of the Bible from the perspective of Science. The Bible does claim some things about Creation, and we need to take a look at that critically. In the end I'm able to convince myself that both accounts can be reconciled, and that theology answers the "why?" of life where science answers the "how?"

Likewise, I believe that it's possible for theological ideas to be expressed in scientific and mathematical terms. I've already made some efforts in this respect, but quantitative results are difficult.

As far as Religion's influence on the world, I'm sick and tired of people claiming that religion is the sole evil that has spurred on humanity towards he sorry state we are in. For me, I answer this with a few things:

1) We're not in a sorry state. We've made it a few million years, and we're going to make it more. We get along, and people *are* actually good at heart.
2) People who say this ignore that the Church in the Middle Ages was one of the primary forces against violence. If you don't believe me, look up the Synods regarding Pax Dei. You'll be surprised. Other religions have had similar things. To me, Religion has mitigated the violence that people visit upon each other, and when people have killed in the name of religion, it has been entirely as an excuse that they use to rationalize it with their compunctions against killing people. If there was no religion, we'd find other excuses to be terrible to one another. To me, what you're doing is looking at religion assuming it's supposed to bring morality, when morality and religion are separate topics.

So yeah, that's basically a summary of my beliefs. Eat n' Enjoy.



"See, morbid and creepifying, I got no problem with, long as she does it quiet-like."

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Sunday, October 29, 2006 5:33 PM

ATIGDNG




Conservative Christian.

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