River: some clarification please by Luciole

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River: some clarification please

POSTED BY: LUCIOLE
UPDATED: Friday, July 14, 2006 02:19
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Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:13 AM

Apologies if this has already been done to death, but I can't see the info I want, and frankly, life's too short to read through it all. No doubt someone will point me in the right direction if I've missed it.

So, River. Is she really supposed to be 'better' now just because she's resolved the repressed Miranda memory thing? After all she's been through what with having her superbrain chopped up, turned into a psycho killer an' all, I didn't find that very convincing.

That said, I've only seen the series through once and the film twice, so its entirely possible I've missed some point or other.

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Thursday, July 13, 2006 1:59 PM

DQBABY76

well from what i get from the BDM, it seems that shes better. well at least more level headed. it took me a while to notice that in the BDM after they find the Miranda message that she immediately vomits and says "I'm better now." or something like that. thus indicating "now that other people know my secret the weight of carrying it is off now."

also when her brother gets hurt its love and (i guess maternal instinct) that puts her in the "kill em all" phase. I mean i would do the same if someone tried to hurt my family and if i had "kick-ass" kicking ass abilities. heheh...

she'll probably always be a little nuts from what they did to her brain and her psychic abilities but at least we know now that we dont have to worry about trying to protect her so much.

this is just my opinion and I'm sure other really die-hard browncoats who've written a whole thesis on this can give you a better insight.

take care!
-------------------------------------------------
Shepard used to tell me...can't do something smart, do something right.
I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

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Thursday, July 13, 2006 2:08 PM

KANEMAN

After watching the BDM I thought she would be better. I thought during her ordeal with the alliance she had learned about Miranda and was struggling internally. Having resolved that, I think she still has psychic abilities and kick ass mentality, But would be more "social" from there on out.

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Thursday, July 13, 2006 2:25 PM

TEACHDAIRE

According to the scan's carried out at St Lucy's, there's a part that has been removed from her brain. This means that she has no inhibitions, and will instinctively do or say whatever she feels. Therefore, as far as I understand it, she's not "cured" at all, maybe just has some peace temporarilly (ok, I know I spelt that wrong).

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Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:29 PM

ORMAYBEMIDGETS

Quote:
This means that she has no inhibitions, and will instinctively do or say whatever she feels.

No, what they removed was her amygdala. Quoting Simon, "She feels everything;she can't not." The amygdala works as a filter. It's not a filter between what you want to do and what you actually do; it's for your feelings. Simon: "You know, ah, you know how you get scared or worried or nervous, but you don't want to be scared or worried or nervous, so you push it to the back of your mind? You try not to think about it."

Here's another thread about River's sanity:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=21567

-
DB: Doesn't exactly fit the thug in the profile alley. Wait, what?

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Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:39 PM

MORWEN112

I think that knowing the secret of Miranda definitely played into River's troubles but it's probably only one of many secrets that she picked up from the doctors and Alliance bigwigs that surrounded her when she was in their clutches. If the government came up with Miranda, who knows what else they have going on behind the scenes?

She's also got the whole "no emotion filter" issue too, and I doubt that will ever get much better. I mean, if it's gone, it's gone. Combine that with her phychic abilities and it's easy to see why she's "a mite unpredictable."

All of that being said, I think getting Miranda "off her chest" as it were, must have helped her in some way. Perhaps over time, she can somehow learn how to control the emotions and memories swirling around in her brain. We won't know for sure until the Big Damn Sequel comes out.

Mine is an evil sugar high laugh! Bwahahahaha!

Morwen

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Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:51 PM

MIRAMEL

my theory (in that it hasnt already been stated) is that she's know better in that she's not as bad off as she was... but still by no means normal. i wouldn't say she's even mostly better, i mean here brain is still gonna be pretty screwed up. also, in the movie theres defanitly a part after the "im alright" and before teh ass-kicking in which she's tweaking out about the reavers. i'm thinkin that the relatively cogent behavior after miranda was just her usual dose of normality ( i mean, there are certainly times in the series where she's perfectly rational.)

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Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:47 PM

LUCIOLE

Cheers everyone.
Ormaybemidgets - that was just the thread I was after.

L

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Friday, July 14, 2006 2:19 AM

XEYRA

I have written a little about this on the thread someone linked a few messages above.

I have since then re-read the novelization and heard that there is a specific part of the script that didn't appear on the film (can someone with the Visual Companion confirm this?) that has a little more conversation between the Operative and Dr. Mathias, and in which the Operative mentions that River became much more unstable, more disturbed after she was "showed off" to parliament.

In fact, during R. Tam Session 22, which I assume takes place in the early months of River's time at the Academy, she mentions the PAX. River was already very intuitive by then, and she seems to already be "reading" by the time of Session 22, which I guess takes place after she was showed off to parliament men, reason why she mentions the PAX. Knowing the secret of Miranda so early would certainly make someone more disturbed and unstable, which is something the Operative mentions.

What does this mean? It does mean Miranda (and for those who don't think it's such a big secret, imagine living with the death of 30 million people in your mind, not to mention the nightmarish images of Reavers) played a part in River's instability, her insanity. It was not the only thing, but I guess the worst of it.

I do think River is more sane. I think that, purging herself from this secret has helped her immensely, but there remains the fact that she had her amygdala stripped and she'll always feel too much, reason why she reacted so strongly to the Reavers's rage in Mr. Universe's moon, even after she was better; she couldn't shut them up, and it paralyzed her. I think her running towards them in the movie was proof of great courage and will on River's part, but more on that in the thread linked above.

Also, she does have to deal with a lot of minds, because if she can't shut things out, she is subjected to what she feels from others. I do think purging Miranda helped her regain part of her sanity, regain some clarity, and thus allows her to try and gain some control over her abilities. Before, her mind was a big mess of things she couldn't understand. Maybe now she understands better and can do something about it.

Maybe she can socialize more, have less breakdowns, unless there's something that truly scares her, talk more clearly (unless there's ideas she can't put into comprehensible words, which, considering she is a genius, is very likely, as not everyone can understand her leaps of logic).

Is she healed? As long as she doesn't have the ability to filter emotions, which was regulated by the amygdala that was stripped from her, she'll never be truly healed. But she is a strong, intelligent young woman, and she now has the clarity of mind to actually learn how to deal with everything she has become. Doesn't mean it'll be easy, but at least her mind is her own again...

Those are my two-cents, I guess. Opinions vary in this subject, with different interpretations made by different people.

*******************************
Wash: This landing is gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: [deadpan] Oh God, oh God, we're all going to die?

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