GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

No Uni in the Verse

POSTED BY: NEWBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Monday, May 1, 2006 05:57
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Monday, April 17, 2006 5:01 AM

NEWBROWNCOAT


Being somewhat of a newbie, I probably missed discussions about the use of the word "Verse" in numerous earlier threads ;-) But one of the things that is so interesting about FireFly/Serenity is that you can keep watching them over and over and still enjoy them so much and still continue to see things you have never seen before. I have always kind of wondered why the use of "verse" rather than "universe". But I just thought it had something to do with the whole slightly western, slightly folksy, dialog and maybe just drift in terminology over the 500 years and migration from Earth That Was. But last night, when I heard Mal say something like "no power in the verse can prevent Kaylee from being cheerful" it dawned on me where the word really came from. I also had just watched The Train Job where they get in a fight in the bar on Unification Day. They probably use the word "verse" because they don't want to voice the term "uni".

Is this an already well-understood realization here in the "verse" ?



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Monday, April 17, 2006 5:09 AM

RACH


Well, I never thought of it. But it does make perfect sense.

I was confused for a little while too. Kept thinking of it in the sense of poetry/verse/language/laws/possibly even religion. Which nearly makes sense. Nearly.

I'll extend a welcome on board if no one has already done so (I'm not so qualified to do so, being quite recent myself. But seem to be the only one about). Good to have ya.

Spread the word! (see below...)

x



One day.
One plan.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

www.straightfromthehorsesmouth.co.uk/firefly

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Monday, April 17, 2006 5:10 AM

DEEPGIRL187


If no one else has done it already, welcome to the site. Don't forget to ask FollowMal for your Browncoat.

I completely agree with you on that point. I never thought about that before, but it would make sense that they wouldn't want that association. I do wonder if that was Joss and Tim's original intent, though.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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Monday, April 17, 2006 5:17 AM

NEWBROWNCOAT


Thanks for the welcome. Very interesting place ;-)

Growing up in the "Roddenverse", Firefly didn't appeal to me at all when it was actually on TV back in 2002. Fortunately for me, my son converted me over this past Spring Break. He brought the DVD's and BDM back from school and asked me to watch. Didn't take long before becoming a Browncoat. Just plain amazing show/movie/concept/characters/actors/writing/etc.

One day.
One plan.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Monday, April 17, 2006 5:23 AM

NEWBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
If no one else has done it already, welcome to the site. Don't forget to ask FollowMal for your Browncoat.

I completely agree with you on that point. I never thought about that before, but it would make sense that they wouldn't want that association. I do wonder if that was Joss and Tim's original intent, though.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.




I have seen mention of asking FollowMal for a Browncoat, but never really knew why or how. It appears to be a mark of membership so I'd love to receive my Browncoat, how does one go about asking FollowMal ?

One day.
One plan.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Monday, April 17, 2006 6:12 AM

DATALESS


I just think that it's a way to shorten the word. I don't know what "uni" means. I know it's a comic book series. I live on Long Island, New York and there is a tourist town called Port Jefferson Station but everyone I know just calls the town Port Jeff. So I think that's the same kind of thing, just a simple shortening of the word. I think it's also Joss being Joss. I think Joss Whedon has a way of taking words and messing with them. Wiggins (if that is how you spell it) the Chinese in Firefly and Gorram are other examples of this kind of thing.

One more thing I just looked up the word uni and this is what I got.
Main Entry: uni-
Function: prefix
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin, from unus -- more at ONE : one : single

And the word Verse.

Main Entry: 1verse
Pronunciation: 'v&rs
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English vers, from Old French & Old English; both from Latin versus, literally, turning, from vertere to turn -- more at WORTH
1 : a line of metrical writing
2 a (1) : metrical language (2) : metrical writing distinguished from poetry especially by its lower level of intensity (3) : POETRY 2 b : POEM c : a body of metrical writing (as of a period or country)
3 : STANZA
4 : one of the short divisions into which a chapter of the Bible is traditionally divided

Look at 4. Bible Divisions, I think there is more going on than we realize and now I'm more confused then ever. Damn you Joss (Kidding.)

And here is universe.

Main Entry: uni•verse
Pronunciation: 'yü-n&-"v&rs
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin universum, from neuter of universus entire, whole, from uni- + versus turned toward, from past participle of vertere to turn -- more at WORTH
1 : the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated : COSMOS: as a : a systematic whole held to arise by and persist through the direct intervention of divine power b : the world of human experience c (1) : the entire celestial cosmos (2) : MILKY WAY GALAXY (3) : an aggregate of stars comparable to the Milky Way galaxy
2 : a distinct field or province of thought or reality that forms a closed system or self-inclusive and independent organization
3 : POPULATION 4
4 : a set that contains all elements relevant to a particular discussion or problem
5 : a great number or quantity

My head is about to explode. I just want to go back to thinking it's just an abbreviation of universe but now it's got something to do with the bible.

Main Entry: 1 book
Pronunciation: 'buk
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English bOc; akin to Old High German buoh book, Gothic boka letter
1 a : a set of written sheets of skin or paper or tablets of wood or ivory b : a set of written, printed, or blank sheets bound together into a volume c : a long written or printed literary composition d : a major division of a treatise or literary work e : a record of a business's financial transactions or financial condition -- often used in plural
2 capitalized : BIBLE 1
3 : something that yields knowledge or understanding
4 a : the total available knowledge and experience that can be brought to bear on a task or problem b : the standards or authority relevant in a situation
5 a : all the charges that can be made against an accused person b : a position from which one must answer for certain acts : ACCOUNT
6 a : LIBRETTO b : the script of a play c : a book of arrangements for a musician or dance orchestra : musical repertory
7 : a packet of items bound together like a book

8 a : BOOKMAKER b : the bets registered by a bookmaker; also : the business or activity of giving odds and taking bets
9 : the number of tricks a card player or side must win before any trick can have scoring value
- book•ful /'buk-"ful/ noun
- in one's book : in one's own opinion
- in one's good books : in favor with one
- one for the book : an act or occurrence worth noting
- on the books : on the records

Look at 2, BIBLE.

Could Shepard Book be a God?
Joss Whedon is truly an Evil genius, a madman with a pen. I want to be a writer and he makes me feel like I would be writing a bad children’s story, like I truly don't understand the art of writing and all the schooling on the planet would only make me just competent to write a child's book like "Dick and Jane go to the zoo". I still feel like my head it just going to pop. Is there a psychologist in the house. Is there some other reason Port Jefferson is called Port Jeff. Help me.

I used
http://www.m-w.com/ as the dictionary.
I am now going to do some light reading to relax my brain. The Dark Tower IV: Song Os Susannah. I never thought a TV show would be more complex then a 7 novel deep story but Firefly/Serenity has more going on then I would have ever imagined. I think you should delve at your own risk.

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Monday, April 17, 2006 9:39 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


An interesting theory, but I think it's a little simpler than that.
"World" has one syllable. "Universe" has two. Any saying like "nothing in the world" wouldn't flow as well with two syllables at the end. Hence, it was shortened to 'verse, just because it, well, sounds better that way. Rhythm in speech is very important.
Still an interesting theory though, that they wouldn't want the conotation of "unification" in their speech, but if that was the case it would probably be considered treason and such. Plus it's not just browncoats who say it that way. Not all the characters were in the war, after all.

*************************************************
One day.
One plan.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:15 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER


It could be that our scientific understanding advances in the next 500 years and we discover there is actually more than one "universe". There are various science fiction stories out there using the term "multiverse" and exploring the implication of "pocket universes" created out of bubbles of time/space. There are also lots of stories using the idea of "parallel universes".

I have no idea if any of these ideas have any real science behind them. But the term 'verse might come into general use if we ever do discover such things.

Indigo S.

One movie.
One day.
One mission.
On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:25 AM

SIMONB


Hi there and welcome aboard!

FollowMal usually finds you, and hands out the Browncoats around here - when she emerges from her massive store-room full of 'coats (where we suspect she secretly keeps pictures of the Captain).

She should find you soon - she has an uncanny knack of rooting out folks without coats, and then there's usually strawberries for all from Floralbunny or Kaele and then everybody's happy.

EDIT: Failing that, you can always send up a signal and post a new thread letting people know in the title that you're new. She's bound to find you then.

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die

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Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:32 AM

NEWBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by IndigoStarblaster:
It could be that our scientific understanding advances in the next 500 years and we discover there is actually more than one "universe". There are various science fiction stories out there using the term "multiverse" and exploring the implication of "pocket universes" created out of bubbles of time/space. There are also lots of stories using the idea of "parallel universes".

I have no idea if any of these ideas have any real science behind them. But the term 'verse might come into general use if we ever do discover such things.

Indigo S.

One movie.
One day.
One mission.
On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.




Actually, there is a lot of "real science" behind the multiverse concept. It is central to the Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation



One day.
One plan.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:39 AM

NEWBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

Still an interesting theory though, that they wouldn't want the conotation of "unification" in their speech, but if that was the case it would probably be considered treason and such. Plus it's not just browncoats who say it that way. Not all the characters were in the war, after all.



Well, you could be right. I just can't think of an example of another character where you could be certain the character was not a Browncoat, or at least of an independents mindset, that used the word "verse". That doesn't mean there isn't such a case.

Just seems to me that if you really hated the whole thought that is summed up by "Unification Day", where the whole "known universe of human kind" was united under Alliance rule, you might easily drift toward shortening "universe" to just "verse" - start out as just a slang shortening of the word and get picked up as the standard usage because of its dropping of the "uni" part. Seems to be something Mal and crew would be of a mind to do ;-)

One day.
One plan.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:06 PM

MATTCOZ


Quote:

Originally posted by NewBrownCoat:
Actually, there is a lot of "real science" behind the multiverse concept. It is central to the Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.

Among others...

Here is a good reference for multiverse theories in science: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse_%28science%29

I prefer M-Theory and its 11 dimensions of space-time.

Heh, this reminds me of an Angel episode, when Fred gives her presentation on "Supersymmetry and P-Dimensional Subspace".

Fred: “Oh, God! I'm between Ed Witten and Brian Greene? (no reaction from Angel or Gunn) Think Nomar Garciaparra and Sammy Sosa.”

Ed Witten being the founder of M-Theory and one of the most brilliant men ever to set foot on this rock, probably a better analogy would be Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods wrapped into one. Brian Greene being mostly known for his bestselling novel "The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for the Ultimate Theory".

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Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:16 PM

NEWBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by mattcoz:
Quote:

Originally posted by NewBrownCoat:
Actually, there is a lot of "real science" behind the multiverse concept. It is central to the Many-Worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.

Among others...

Here is a good reference for multiverse theories in science: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse_%28science%29

I prefer M-Theory and its 11 dimensions of space-time.

Heh, this reminds me of an Angel episode, when Fred gives her presentation on "Supersymmetry and P-Dimensional Subspace".

Fred: “Oh, God! I'm between Ed Witten and Brian Greene? (no reaction from Angel or Gunn) Think Nomar Garciaparra and Sammy Sosa.”

Ed Witten being the founder of M-Theory and one of the most brilliant men ever to set foot on this rock, probably a better analogy would be Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods wrapped into one. Brian Greene being mostly known for his bestselling novel "The Elegant Universe: Superstrings, Hidden Dimensions, and the Quest for the Ultimate Theory".



Yes, great book ! I also like the M-theory approach. But I love the Many-Worlds intepretation because of its relevance to quantum computing and trying to visualize how this mechanism can possibly work as it does ;-)

http://www.qubit.org/people/david/Articles/Frontiers.html

As a computer engineer, this subject facinates me to no end.

One day.
One plan.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:50 PM

FOLLOWMAL


*Whistles into thread after a hard day working on the June 23rd mission? project? thing? yea the thing?*

Hey, NewBrownCoat! Welcome home. Cuz this is a home. Been full of bickering lately, but it'll come round right again. We have been so busy figuring out the right way to participate in the June 23rd thing.. that I've let my 'coat duties get behind.

*hands NewBrownCoat a browncoat*

There you are.. you became a Browncoat the minute you fell in love with the show.. but this sort of is a way to say.. we're so proud you've joined us.

I hope someone comes along and offers you some food. We used to have a fairly shiny welcoming committee here, but lately... we'll you'll have to forgive us.

I'm so glad you are here.

*waves and whistles out of the thread.. back to her duties*







One day.
One plan.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave!


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Tuesday, April 18, 2006 5:58 PM

NEWBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by FollowMal:
*Whistles into thread after a hard day working on the June 23rd mission? project? thing? yea the thing?*

Hey, NewBrownCoat! Welcome home. Cuz this is a home. Been full of bickering lately, but it'll come round right again. We have been so busy figuring out the right way to participate in the June 23rd thing.. that I've let my 'coat duties get behind.

*hands NewBrownCoat a browncoat*

There you are.. you became a Browncoat the minute you fell in love with the show.. but this sort of is a way to say.. we're so proud you've joined us.

I hope someone comes along and offers you some food. We used to have a fairly shiny welcoming committee here, but lately... we'll you'll have to forgive us.

I'm so glad you are here.

*waves and whistles out of the thread.. back to her duties*







One day.
One plan.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave!




Thanks so much for my very own official Browncoat !!! As for falling in love with the show, well I'm doing that all over again tonight as I continue through the DVD box set for the 3rd time ;-) I'm amazed at how it just keeps getting better each time. Never seen anything like this.

Anyway, keep up the great welcoming job. Don't worry 'bout being a bit behind - getting ready to misbehave on the 23rd should be the number one priority ! Just happy to be on board.

One day.
One plan.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Thursday, April 20, 2006 3:45 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by NewBrownCoat:
Quote:

Well, you could be right. I just can't think of an example of another character where you could be certain the character was not a Browncoat, or at least of an independents mindset, that used the word "verse".



What about Simon? (He lived in the core most of his life; we even see a scene of him and River where she's playing war and they've been outflanked by the Independents.) In OiS he says "I don't think my last act in this 'verse is going to be betraying my sister."
Maybe he picked it up just being on the ship, and obviously he's not too fond of the alliance anymore, but he says it like he grew up saying it... Too bad they never say anything like it in the flashback scenes.

*************************************************
One day.
One mission.
One legion of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Thursday, April 20, 2006 3:56 AM

NEWBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

What about Simon? (He lived in the core most of his life; we even see a scene of him and River where she's playing war and they've been outflanked by the Independents.) In OiS he says "I don't think my last act in this 'verse is going to be betraying my sister."
Maybe he picked it up just being on the ship, and obviously he's not too fond of the alliance anymore, but he says it like he grew up saying it... Too bad they never say anything like it in the flashback scenes.



I would think that he would have picked it up on the ship. In fact, I can just about hear Mal dictating such.

"The verse is not to be 'uni'fied ON MY SHIP !"

One Day.
One Mission.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Thursday, April 20, 2006 4:27 AM

ROCKETJOCK


Actually, what I find more fascinating than the shortening of the word "Universe" to "'Verse" -- which appears to me to be nothing but simple linguistic drift -- is the way inhabitants of this single solar system think of it as being synonymous with both the galaxy, and the universe as a whole.

The opening narrations refer to a "Galaxy of Earths." Mal refers to there being "More than seventy Earths spinnin' around the galaxy", and even The Operative--clearly an educated man -- refers to members of Parlement making every important decision "in the galaxy."

Except for acknowledging the (former) existence of Earth-that-was, the entire 'Verse (by which I mean the single terraformed solar system we see on the show) seems to think of this one system as the whole of creation. As if Americans thought of the entire world being only the original thirteen colonies and the remains of Atlantis...

Mental block? Or cultural conditioning? What do you think?

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

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Thursday, April 20, 2006 4:51 AM

NEWBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by RocketJock:
Actually, what I find more fascinating than the shortening of the word "Universe" to "'Verse" -- which appears to me to be nothing but simple linguistic drift -- is the way inhabitants of this single solar system think of it as being synonymous with both the galaxy, and the universe as a whole.

The opening narrations refer to a "Galaxy of Earths." Mal refers to there being "More than seventy Earths spinnin' around the galaxy", and even The Operative--clearly an educated man -- refers to members of Parlement making every important decision "in the galaxy."

Except for acknowledging the (former) existence of Earth-that-was, the entire 'Verse (by which I mean the single terraformed solar system we see on the show) seems to think of this one system as the whole of creation. As if Americans thought of the entire world being only the original thirteen colonies and the remains of Atlantis...

Mental block? Or cultural conditioning? What do you think?

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn



Well, in Webster's the word "universe" has a number of meanings, only one of which refers to "the entire celestial cosmos".

Main Entry: uni·verse
Pronunciation: 'yü-n&-"v&rs
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin universum, from neuter of universus entire, whole, from uni- + versus turned toward, from past participle of vertere to turn -- more at WORTH
1 : the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated : COSMOS: as a : a systematic whole held to arise by and persist through the direct intervention of divine power b : the world of human experience c (1) : the entire celestial cosmos (2) : MILKY WAY GALAXY (3) : an aggregate of stars comparable to the Milky Way galaxy
2 : a distinct field or province of thought or reality that forms a closed system or self-inclusive and independent organization
3 : POPULATION 4
4 : a set that contains all elements relevant to a particular discussion or problem
5 : a great number or quantity


The word can simply refer to a local body/collection of things. For example, it is proper to say things like "The universe of Firefly fans". So it is really not surprising to me that "universe", or just "verse", is used to represent different scopes of extent depending on the context of its use.

"May be on the losing side, but I'm still not convinced that I'm wrong about the use of 'verse'"

;-)

One Day.
One Mission.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Monday, May 1, 2006 5:36 AM

NEWBROWNCOAT


I was re-watching The Train Job last night and noticed a related case. When talking about how Mal always finds himself in an Alliance friendly bar on unification day, Zoe use the term "U-day" rather than "Unification Day". Just seems like they can't bring themselves to use come close to saying unification, or even "uni" ;-)

Does anyone have an example of where Mal or Zoe ever speaks the words universe or unification in any episode ?

One Day.
One Mission.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Monday, May 1, 2006 5:57 AM

KAYLEESTHEGREATEST


it just sounds cool
much like shiny and other stuff like that
Someday the verse will spit in your soup but at least they gave you soup.
one day
one plan
one mission
one army of browncoats
june 23rd serenity day

-Our mission as browncoats is to make us known.

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