GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

To be or Not to Be THAT is the Question...

POSTED BY: RIVER6213
UPDATED: Sunday, April 9, 2006 04:26
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Thursday, March 23, 2006 9:57 PM

HIXIE129


The longer you stay away from work, the harder it will be to go back.. Start by going in for just a little while or go in very late or on the weekend,.. but go.

Age! for the last ten months I have been taking vicodin and perks like they are gum drops. I need two vicodin just to get into the shower. The pain is unbearable even with the drugs.. I type most of the time lying down. (That why it takes so long and I don't try to write alot) Believe me I have considered killing myself, but I keep resisting..

You will too..

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:02 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by TheRealMe:
I'm sorry, River. I'd like to give you a hug right now. And what of this family that took you in? Are you still connected with them?

It's true that the protection mechanisms sometimes outlive their usefulness or get out of control. But they don't have to rule your life.



Am I still connected with them? No. I stopped seeing them in my mid 30s after the father of that family died. I didn't go to the funeral because by then I was already the female version of Darth Vader. I don't know why I stopped seeing them after that really, but I have accounts set up under another name for the remaining surviving family members, and all their expenses are paid for by me for the rest of their lives and they dont know where the money is coming from. They will never have to worry about financial problems ever again. This is the best I can do. I don't, I can't let them see what I have transformed into, but I want them taken care of. They helped a littel girl long ago. They gave her love, they gave her a world view, they gave their protection, and they gave here guidance. It's my responsibility to repay them for that.

As for my REAL family...they can all go fish up a tree. If you think that's heartless, well I really don't know what to say, but I will say this: I was under the control of my real family for 16 years, and in that time I was tortured, beatened, starved and told I was stupid and would never amount to anything; I wasnt going to make it in life. In less than 7 years I was under the control of strangers who loved me, took care of me and defended me....which family do you think I'm going to honor?

Life is such a tiring affair...it really is when you think about it. The human mind is such a sensitive thing. I'm so tired, I must sleep.




The River that Could

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:06 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by Hixie129:
The longer you stay away from work, the harder it will be to go back.. Start by going in for just a little while or go in very late or on the weekend,.. but go.

Age! for the last ten months I have been taking vicodin and perks like they are gum drops. I need two vicodin just to get into the shower. The pain is unbearable even with the drugs.. I type most of the time lying down. (That why it takes so long and I don't try to write alot) Believe me I have considered killing myself, but I keep resisting..

You will too..




Why do you need to take vicodin? Were you in an accident?

River

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:12 PM

HIXIE129


No accident, 3 discs in my lower spine are fucked, just plain wear and tear and Age.

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:21 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by Hixie129:
No accident, 3 discs in my lower spine are fucked, just plain wear and tear and Age.



You poor dear! I'm sorry, but sorry don't cut it. Be careful with that Vicodin, its addictive, but I guess you already know that part. The back and spine are such a poor design, and sooner or later, we will all experience that hell which you are currently going through. Hang in there if its possible. I'm sure you have people who love you.

Screaming River

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:40 PM

HIXIE129


The vicodin is really scary because I have been on it so long and I am worried. My sister lives close and I recently bought a condo for my mom, so she is close. I have been avoiding major back surgery, I have been trying every doctor who thinks they can help, but it really looks like I am out of options.

When you talked about the doctor (Shrink) that you went to, I really got a laugh.. My current doctor really wanted me to see one, because I have been in such pain for such a long time, and also I think because he is afraid that I am ready to cut his throat, my throat or someones throat. Any way I saw the shink today and guess what she prescribed more drugs.. I didn't get the prescriptions filled,, I figured I am taking enough drugs right now.

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:05 PM

ROB150185




As for my REAL family...they can all go fish up a tree. If you think that's heartless, well I really don't know what to say, but I will say this: I was under the control of my real family for 16 years, and in that time I was tortured, beatened, starved and told I was stupid and would never amount to anything; I wasnt going to make it in life. In less than 7 years I was under the control of strangers who loved me, took care of me and defended me....which family do you think I'm going to honor?




Damn River!

I thought that my upbringing was harsh.
I wasn't beaten, bruised or scarred, just abandoned.

You have my respect for hanging on so far, after all that.

(Fish up a tree - love that!)




I'll be in my bunk...

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:10 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by Hixie129:
The vicodin is really scary because I have been on it so long and I am worried. My sister lives close and I recently bought a condo for my mom, so she is close. I have been avoiding major back surgery, I have been trying every doctor who thinks they can help, but it really looks like I am out of options.

When you talked about the doctor (Shrink) that you went to, I really got a laugh.. My current doctor really wanted me to see one, because I have been in such pain for such a long time, and also I think because he is afraid that I am ready to cut his throat, my throat or someones throat. Any way I saw the shink today and guess what she prescribed more drugs.. I didn't get the prescriptions filled,, I figured I am taking enough drugs right now.



Good for you! The health care industry is out to make a profit. You go anywhere near them and you come out with a perscription of something you can't pronounce regardless if you need it or not.

You sound like a really nice person...wouldnt it be nice if we could transfer your pain to someone out there who was evil? Anyway. I've stopped playing with my new gun and I have to go to sleep. sleep is the only time I have a measure of peace. I really wish I could stop your pain or at least transfer it to myself.

I really hate who I am

River


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Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:18 PM

HIXIE129


Thank you River. And about transfering the pain,, I won't give it to you but if you can think of someone else. Its almost 4:30am I am finally sleepy.. Made it thru another night....

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:27 PM

REAVERMAN


River, I'm not going to tell you that I understand everything you have gone through, because, honestly, I don't. One thing I do understand very, very well is the desire to end my own life. The last few years have been rough. I lost faith in God, myself, and humanity in general. You are right. Life is tiring. To me, the world is a dark place, devoid of meaning. So, why haven't I ended it already? Why do I get up every day and go through the motions, pretending to lead a normal life? For a couple of reasons. (1)Sheer stubbornness. I turn all the anger and hate(for people, and especially God) inside me into a reserve of willpower that keeps me going. And (2)I dont know how, but I've come to thrive in the dark place where my mind resides. I get some perverse form of happiness from wallowing in the pointlessness of it all. I thoroughly enjoy dark/cynical stuff. The last thing is that, deep down, I really do have some hope that there might be somethin' better just around the corner. It might be a fool's hope, but it's there nonetheless. More than once, that has kept me from pulling the trigger. If you want to end it, that's your choice, but if you want to talk, I could do that. Who knows, maybe you can find something to live for. If not, well then, as I said before, it's your choice.

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:42 PM

SINGATE


I must say this thread has become quite heavenly and that is in no way disturbing.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:53 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverman:
River, I'm not going to tell you that I understand everything you have gone through, because, honestly, I don't. One thing I do understand very, very well is the desire to end my own life. The last few years have been rough. I lost faith in God, myself, and humanity in general. You are right. Life is tiring. To me, the world is a dark place, devoid of meaning. So, why haven't I ended it already? Why do I get up every day and go through the motions, pretending to lead a normal life? For a couple of reasons. (1)Sheer stubbornness. I turn all the anger and hate(for people, and especially God) inside me into a reserve of willpower that keeps me going. And (2)I dont know how, but I've come to thrive in the dark place where my mind resides. I get some perverse form of happiness from wallowing in the pointlessness of it all. I thoroughly enjoy dark/cynical stuff. The last thing is that, deep down, I really do have some hope that there might be somethin' better just around the corner. It might be a fool's hope, but it's there nonetheless. More than once, that has kept me from pulling the trigger. If you want to end it, that's your choice, but if you want to talk, I could do that. Who knows, maybe you can find something to live for. If not, well then, as I said before, it's your choice.



I was just about to go to sleep when I saw your post. I'm so sleepy! I havent slept in 2 days! I am aware that I'm not the only one on this planet that wishes to end it all, and from the sounds of it, you've been given the "full meal deal" of hardships that make you wish for death the same as I.
Lost faith in yourself, god and humanity...that sounds about right. I am here right now like you because I'm stubborn...this is what has kept my sorry, worthless ass alive this long. My continual existence is like laughing at life. "I'm still here my souls screams at life...what are you gonna do about it?"

For myself it has gone passed that though. I know that I've won already, but I'm not too happy with the prize, nor the result. I've fought up the hill against all odds, and I am standing on top of that hill right now, and what do I have to show for it??? Money, and thats it...nothing more.

I made all of that money so I could feel safe from everything except my own mind. And sure I have a choice. I can take this gun right here thats sitting next to me and put a bullet into my brainpan. The reason I don't at the moment is because I've begun so see in the past few days that I'm too scared to pull the trigger. Stupid I know, but I can't seem to get myself to do it, but I WILL find a way to end this life. I have to go...its important. And you are correct, I DO have a choice, but for me, it really doesnt matter.

As for yourself. You seem like you still have a bit of fighting spirit left in you. All I can say for you is to hold on just a little bit longer...perhaps a better day awaits you around the corner. You don't seem dead; you seem to still have some fight left in you...and that's important. So like Mal said "You Hold!"

I am such a mouthy bitch! I seem to always have to have the last word! I'm so tired...I need to sleep but thank you for writing your post. It means a lot to me.


The Little River That Could

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Friday, March 24, 2006 12:26 AM

SANDS


I would highly recommend a book titled:
The Problem of Pain
By: C.S. Lewis

I find when you forfeit religion something else takes that void. We as humans instinctively want to worship, fear, love, and loath something. Do you think it’s a coincidence that Christianity and Environmentalism share some of the most basic beliefs? Environmentalist believe that we should take responsibility for our actions and our treatment of the environment, that the world will one day come to a catastrophic end, that we all need to “Change our ways”. It parallels with Christianity.

In your case your religion is yourself…you worship, fear, love, and loath yourself.

1. I own my own business, so money is not a problem.
You own your own business? I find nine times out of ten small business owners over work themselves. They have the mentality of “If I’m not here the whole operation will fall apart” when in reality its “I’m so important if I’m not here nothing will get done”.

“2. I got rid of all my friends because I need no one.
4. I'm totally uninterested in sex.”
You need nobody but yourself? The apathetic tone of 2 and 4 only implies you feel that others are unsuited to tend to your needs. You are your own companionship.

“5. I'm totally not interested in art, music, or anything creative.”
Anything that has been created to convey the emotions or soul of another do not interest you because they aren’t your emotions or soul.

“7. Children are nice but I have no interest in having one.”
This is probably for the best. Everything that I have read form you show what I like to call an “I’ll martyr myself but you owe me!” attitude. The child would either end up emotionally abandoned or loathing you because of you clinginess.

”8. I disowned the family I was brought up with and it doesn’t bother me in any way, shape, or form. If one of my sisters or bothers died, it would not bother me at all. I wouldn’t be glad if they died, I just simply wouldn’t care.”
Again this doesn’t show a disrespect for human life just it only furthers my point about you being passive of others.

”9. Life is a war that must be won at all costs, yet I'm unclear what the "won" part means, and I'm unsure why it should be fought in the 1st place.”
You can tell everything you need to know about somebody just by the metaphor they put on life.

“3. Religion is a mute point with me.”
By now you can tell I already disagree with you here. You indulge in self worship, you like being the center. You make scenarios in which people will rally around You, show You affection, try and align themselves with You. And after you get what you want from them emotion wise you head off to bed and sleep.

And this was off of one post of yours I’m sure more evidence is apparent through all of your writings that would only benefit my analysis. And if you give any response to this at all I’m sure the body of that reply would only make my assumptions sound.

That all being said:
Is there anything wrong with what you do? Some would say yes, but in my professional opinion it’s your way of obtaining normalcy and that’s a step.

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Friday, March 24, 2006 4:47 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:

The Little River That Could

I like that signature

Don't deny or try to 'get rid' of your pain. That would be impossible. Just try to accept it as part of yourself, but not an all-controlling part.

For someone who balks at shrinks, you seem remarkably in touch with yourself, and the source of your difficulties, and this is not only a good sign, but a powerful tool for change. You say you hate who you are, so be someone else. Create yourself in the way that you want to be. Start with the little things...for small example, do you leave the house with a blank expression looking down usually? Next time, walk out, intentionally looking up at the sky, and smile. It's acting, but repetition will make you comfortable in the role.

Just the act of smiling, however forced or artificial, will begin the change.

Machines can be dis-assembled.

You let us in a little, on here. Now do the same in your life. Crawl, then walk, then run with it.

I, for one, have faith in ya.


Don't MAKE ME come with the cordical electrodes! Chrisisall

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Friday, March 24, 2006 4:56 AM

OTMA


River, I read your long post, and you don't have anything to apologize for. I'm not going to start ignoring you now. I'm back here again, and I hope you will be too.
There are monsters in this world. I don't see you as one of them. You suffered more than anyone should. You showed strength and resolve and succeeded where many would have failed. You are not trash. You never will be.
Part of the reason I identify as a Browncoat is because I despise injustice. When I hear about people being abused, tortured, stripped of their rights and their individuality, ground and beaten down by prejudice or conformity or plain old cruelty, it offends me down to the bone. Whether it comes from government or religion or individual action, I can't tolerate it. It grinds at me when the bastards win.
You deserve better, River. You survived more pain than I've ever known and now you're hurting again, but you deserve to make it this time too. You deserve to win. Not them. Not the ones who hurt you so badly you don't value yourself. If you used that gun, I wouldn't think of it as suicide, I'd think of it as a delayed murder. I cared about your life before today. Now I care more.
River, please get rid of the gun. If you can't bring yourself to do that, at least get rid of the bullets. If you can't decide to live right now, at least make it so you'll have to put effort into not living. Make yourself have to think about it, not just do it on the spur of a moment you might have regretted later.
I care about you, not in an abstract "it's better if people don't die" way, but as an individual, as the person I saw in your picture, as the person I see in your posts. I don't think you really want to die. I think you just want it to stop hurting. Keep posting here, and I will too. I'm in, all the way. I'm not giving up on you. Please don't give up on yourself. You deserve to win.

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Friday, March 24, 2006 7:14 AM

REAVERMAN


As I said before, I too will continue to post here, if you want me to. I ain't got much to offer, but I am a good listener.

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Friday, March 24, 2006 7:16 AM

REAVERMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Sands:
I would highly recommend a book titled:
The Problem of Pain
By: C.S. Lewis

I find when you forfeit religion something else takes that void. We as humans instinctively want to worship, fear, love, and loath something. Do you think it’s a coincidence that Christianity and Environmentalism share some of the most basic beliefs? Environmentalist believe that we should take responsibility for our actions and our treatment of the environment, that the world will one day come to a catastrophic end, that we all need to “Change our ways”. It parallels with Christianity.

In your case your religion is yourself…you worship, fear, love, and loath yourself.

1. I own my own business, so money is not a problem.
You own your own business? I find nine times out of ten small business owners over work themselves. They have the mentality of “If I’m not here the whole operation will fall apart” when in reality its “I’m so important if I’m not here nothing will get done”.

“2. I got rid of all my friends because I need no one.
4. I'm totally uninterested in sex.”
You need nobody but yourself? The apathetic tone of 2 and 4 only implies you feel that others are unsuited to tend to your needs. You are your own companionship.

“5. I'm totally not interested in art, music, or anything creative.”
Anything that has been created to convey the emotions or soul of another do not interest you because they aren’t your emotions or soul.

“7. Children are nice but I have no interest in having one.”
This is probably for the best. Everything that I have read form you show what I like to call an “I’ll martyr myself but you owe me!” attitude. The child would either end up emotionally abandoned or loathing you because of you clinginess.

”8. I disowned the family I was brought up with and it doesn’t bother me in any way, shape, or form. If one of my sisters or bothers died, it would not bother me at all. I wouldn’t be glad if they died, I just simply wouldn’t care.”
Again this doesn’t show a disrespect for human life just it only furthers my point about you being passive of others.

”9. Life is a war that must be won at all costs, yet I'm unclear what the "won" part means, and I'm unsure why it should be fought in the 1st place.”
You can tell everything you need to know about somebody just by the metaphor they put on life.

“3. Religion is a mute point with me.”
By now you can tell I already disagree with you here. You indulge in self worship, you like being the center. You make scenarios in which people will rally around You, show You affection, try and align themselves with You. And after you get what you want from them emotion wise you head off to bed and sleep.

And this was off of one post of yours I’m sure more evidence is apparent through all of your writings that would only benefit my analysis. And if you give any response to this at all I’m sure the body of that reply would only make my assumptions sound.

That all being said:
Is there anything wrong with what you do? Some would say yes, but in my professional opinion it’s your way of obtaining normalcy and that’s a step.



Sands, back off. River doesn't need to be psychoanylized right now.

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Friday, March 24, 2006 7:28 AM

ISAACSHEPHERD


River,
I'm sorry to hear about what has happened to you. I wish I could say more helpful words but I cannot begin to relate to what has happened to you. All I can do is try to help. I'm not much of a talker in real life, but I'm an excellent listener and there are others on this site that are as well. We'd all like to help you.

One amazing thing about being a Browncoat is we're all like family. We all generally care about other people and what happens to other people. Hang in there cause there are people there for you, who'll support you. I thing I've always admired about Mal was his determination and to go through everything that you have, you must have as much or more than Mal does. If there is anything more we can do let us know.
IS

The Bible's a bit fuzzy on the subject of kneecaps.

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Friday, March 24, 2006 12:27 PM

REAVERMAN


River, I'm not going to tell you that you have a lot to live for, because you are the judge of that. I also won't tell you that life is peachy, 'cause it ain't. What I do have to say, even though it probably wont change your mind, is that I care. And I would be honored to call you a friend, even if only for a short time. And if you want to talk, well, friends are there for each other. I'll be there for you; all you have to do is ask.

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Friday, March 24, 2006 9:28 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by Sands:
I would highly recommend a book titled:
The Problem of Pain
By: C.S. Lewis

I find when you forfeit religion something else takes that void. We as humans instinctively want to worship, fear, love, and loath something. Do you think it’s a coincidence that Christianity and Environmentalism share some of the most basic beliefs? Environmentalist believe that we should take responsibility for our actions and our treatment of the environment, that the world will one day come to a catastrophic end, that we all need to “Change our ways”. It parallels with Christianity.

In your case your religion is yourself…you worship, fear, love, and loath yourself.

1. I own my own business, so money is not a problem.
You own your own business? I find nine times out of ten small business owners over work themselves. They have the mentality of “If I’m not here the whole operation will fall apart” when in reality its “I’m so important if I’m not here nothing will get done”.

“2. I got rid of all my friends because I need no one.
4. I'm totally uninterested in sex.”
You need nobody but yourself? The apathetic tone of 2 and 4 only implies you feel that others are unsuited to tend to your needs. You are your own companionship.

“5. I'm totally not interested in art, music, or anything creative.”
Anything that has been created to convey the emotions or soul of another do not interest you because they aren’t your emotions or soul.

“7. Children are nice but I have no interest in having one.”
This is probably for the best. Everything that I have read form you show what I like to call an “I’ll martyr myself but you owe me!” attitude. The child would either end up emotionally abandoned or loathing you because of you clinginess.

”8. I disowned the family I was brought up with and it doesn’t bother me in any way, shape, or form. If one of my sisters or bothers died, it would not bother me at all. I wouldn’t be glad if they died, I just simply wouldn’t care.”
Again this doesn’t show a disrespect for human life just it only furthers my point about you being passive of others.

”9. Life is a war that must be won at all costs, yet I'm unclear what the "won" part means, and I'm unsure why it should be fought in the 1st place.”
You can tell everything you need to know about somebody just by the metaphor they put on life.

“3. Religion is a mute point with me.”
By now you can tell I already disagree with you here. You indulge in self worship, you like being the center. You make scenarios in which people will rally around You, show You affection, try and align themselves with You. And after you get what you want from them emotion wise you head off to bed and sleep.

And this was off of one post of yours I’m sure more evidence is apparent through all of your writings that would only benefit my analysis. And if you give any response to this at all I’m sure the body of that reply would only make my assumptions sound.

That all being said:
Is there anything wrong with what you do? Some would say yes, but in my professional opinion it’s your way of obtaining normalcy and that’s a step.




Sands,

I woke up this morning and decided to take a chance and go to work. I took the advice of one kind soul in this thread and decided to go in for a few hours, but before I did any of that, I logged onto this board to read any possible responses to my queries from last night’s bit of conversations. I was confronted by your post. It’s an interesting post because there are two things within it that are 100% true, and one that’s questionable, and the remaining editorial opinions are really not me, but I am open to investigate if this is true about me. That’s what makes asking for advice or wisdom from other people so great…You never know what you are going get, so thank you for giving me your view.

It’s clear to me that you are one of those thoughtful Christians that have things pretty much tied up in a box. Either you are for god, or you are worshiping something else. It’s an either/or situation, so it is pointless for me to even begin to argue with you on this subject... You are a Christian, and you are some kind of professional, which in certain ways put me at a disadvantage. I am not posting my woes here in this forum to be “right” about anything, I’m here to learn if you can understand that, and I doubt you can. I am going by my experience, my gut feeling and my observations…nothing more. You can take that in any way you wish.

You said that my religion is myself. I will admit that in the past 6 years, I have been quite egocentric, but I wouldn’t call it my religion. I would call it fear of being hurt. I believe that I am somehow operating with the good old fashion human fight or flight response, and I am running like hell, I’m in total flight. I believe that the only way I can be/feel safe is to remove from the equation of my life those variables, and those variables are people. It’s about control. I don’t want to be hurt so I remove everyone that could possibly hurt me. This may not be good judgment, and even I admit this, but it’s a start. It’s human. Nothing new there.

I do own my own business and it is anything but small. In a past post I said I carved myself out an empire. I was not exaggerating when I said this, but strangely enough, I don’t feel very important in this job... I’ve never had, and never will, but it’s something I started and I need to finish it. The company I have is very dynamic and it changes constantly, therefore its impossible for anyone else to step in and handle at this point, which is not a good thing because I really would like to take 2 years off and go do something else. I need to get myself in a different environment. I think it would be good for me.

I got rid of all my friends because I was simply getting too weird for them, and got tired of having to explain my personality shifts to them. I guess I didn’t want people to expect anything from me and I didn’t want to have to live up to their expectations. I don’t see that as bad and wrong…I see that as someone who’s going through something and needed to work things out before she jumped back into the world of humans. Sue me.

The idea of sex doesn’t work for me right now…is that wrong? The idea of being intimate is too much for me at this point in my crazy life…is that wrong. I’m certain that there are many people who are very much “suited” to tend to my needs out there, but only if I’m ready to have my needs tended too. I’m not in my 20s or 30s, I’m 40+ years of age, and sex isn’t my primary focus…is that wrong? Apparently it is to you…once again sue me. This is normal behavior. At least for me right now. Also, its safer to not need anyone, but it is clear that I do need somebody…everyone needs someone, but I no longer have within myself the social skill of give and take that makes a friendship possible. My problem is simply…I don’t trust anyone. Because of personal dysfunction, I am unable to have friends. In my opinion this is a sad and pathetic state to be in. I’m not proud of it at all, and I’m very sorry it happened.


Art, music, and creativity and my interest in it depend on my mood. There are rare times that I do indulge in some art form, but those times are becoming less and less, and it has nothing to do with my not being invested in it…where do you come up with is stuff?

Regarding children. I’m afraid of having children because I know I would want to give that child the best life I could possibly give her/him. I would smother them in love too the point that they would rebel, but abandon them? Never. Only fools abandon their children.

About disowning my family. You don’t know the situation fully which I come from, therefore you are in no position to judge me. I know where I came from and I know what those monsters did, and I shall never forget. If my real sisters and brothers died today, I would not shed a tear for them, but I would shed a tear for a complete stranger if they died. This should tell you something. My real family is in a way decent people now in the present, but in the past they were party to a crime and they know it. They expect me to forgive and forget and I won’t, I cannot do this. I don’t take betrayal lightly.

My metaphor of life being a war still stands. Life is a war, but it’s a war you are never going to win. Life has infinite resources to fight the war…you and I have only finite resources, therefore we are not going to win the war, but we certainly can win a score of battles if our heart and soul is in the right place. I’ve won a lot of battles.

As far as religion is concerned…it IS a mute point. Your dedication to a pie-in the-sky god just shows what a complete fool you are. I don’t even have to continue. And about getting people to rally around me as you put it. If one thing is real clear about me is that I am currently wearing my soul on my sleeves, and I think that people can see it. I’ve approached everyone honestly with my woes, my fears, and my resolves and they responded. They responded not just for me, but also for themselves. This thread is not about me, I’m just the loud mouth within it, but all that I’m going through, other people are going through it also, but in their own way. I’m just being pushy about it, which is why people are responding to me. They are allowing me to be human, and to be sensitive, and to be scared in the only place on this earth that will allow me these emotions and feelings without judgment. This is a gift, and it shall not be wasted by me. I’ll will figure this out or I will die. It’s that simple.

The fact that I added suicide intentions into the mix shows everyone, including myself that I have a resolve. I’m here to do or die.
The ending statement of your last post leaves no room for a proper response. It’s more in the way of a childish attempt at reverse Psychology, but I must confess that your post made me think, and you did come forth with some relevant points that I should consider.





The River who Yawns

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Friday, March 24, 2006 9:39 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:

The Little River That Could

I like that signature

Don't deny or try to 'get rid' of your pain. That would be impossible. Just try to accept it as part of yourself, but not an all-controlling part.

For someone who balks at shrinks, you seem remarkably in touch with yourself, and the source of your difficulties, and this is not only a good sign, but a powerful tool for change. You say you hate who you are, so be someone else. Create yourself in the way that you want to be. Start with the little things...for small example, do you leave the house with a blank expression looking down usually? Next time, walk out, intentionally looking up at the sky, and smile. It's acting, but repetition will make you comfortable in the role.

Just the act of smiling, however forced or artificial, will begin the change.

Machines can be dis-assembled.

You let us in a little, on here. Now do the same in your life. Crawl, then walk, then run with it.

I, for one, have faith in ya.


Don't MAKE ME come with the cordical electrodes! Chrisisall




Thanks Chrisiall,

I do have a lot of personal insight about myself...I know HOW, now I need to know WHY so I can do something about this mess called my life that I created. Thanks for reading in between the lines of my posts, and seeing the person underneath the words. This gives me some hope that perhaps I'm not completly gone yet.

I was really worried yesterday after posting that super personal post. You never how people are going to take that sort of thing.

Sands left a post that I read this morning that caused me to seriously think about what I think about and why. I was thinking this while I was trying to get some work done today. Do you know that I didnt even know it was Friday? I thought it was Thursday! I'm slipping! The people at work know something is up with me, but they are way too tactiful to actually ask. I got to keep this stuff hidden as long as I'm able. who wants to know if their boss is crazy..lol!

River

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Friday, March 24, 2006 9:57 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by otma:
River, I read your long post, and you don't have anything to apologize for. I'm not going to start ignoring you now. I'm back here again, and I hope you will be too.
There are monsters in this world. I don't see you as one of them. You suffered more than anyone should. You showed strength and resolve and succeeded where many would have failed. You are not trash. You never will be.
Part of the reason I identify as a Browncoat is because I despise injustice. When I hear about people being abused, tortured, stripped of their rights and their individuality, ground and beaten down by prejudice or conformity or plain old cruelty, it offends me down to the bone. Whether it comes from government or religion or individual action, I can't tolerate it. It grinds at me when the bastards win.
You deserve better, River. You survived more pain than I've ever known and now you're hurting again, but you deserve to make it this time too. You deserve to win. Not them. Not the ones who hurt you so badly you don't value yourself. If you used that gun, I wouldn't think of it as suicide, I'd think of it as a delayed murder. I cared about your life before today. Now I care more.
River, please get rid of the gun. If you can't bring yourself to do that, at least get rid of the bullets. If you can't decide to live right now, at least make it so you'll have to put effort into not living. Make yourself have to think about it, not just do it on the spur of a moment you might have regretted later.
I care about you, not in an abstract "it's better if people don't die" way, but as an individual, as the person I saw in your picture, as the person I see in your posts. I don't think you really want to die. I think you just want it to stop hurting. Keep posting here, and I will too. I'm in, all the way. I'm not giving up on you. Please don't give up on yourself. You deserve to win.




OTMA,
Thank you for the words of courage. Sorry for me being so blasted egocentric.
I actully do want to die, but before I give up the ghost, I want to know that I tried everything. Life has a way of catching up with you...and its catching up with me fast!!! I can't run fast enough, so its time to hunch my shoulders, turn around and face my demons, and I have a LOT of demons.

I do want to stop hurting. You are correct saying this. And I thought I was being so smart now look what I've gone and done to myself. I'm not going to get rid of my gun...not at all. I want it with me right next to this computer. Its a reminder, its a reminder that I have choices. Its a reminder that if I really wanted too, I could take my life this second. I have the power...I have the choice. Its important for me to know that I have a choice, and sometimes its good to force yourself into some kind of "final showdown"

This is going to sound rather funny. strange as it may sound. I used up all my survival skills to get me this far, and now I don't have any survival skills that works for thse more modern time at the age that I'm at. I made it to the top of the heap and I now I'm the weakest one of them all. Crazy huh?

Thank you for talking to me. Thank you all for taking the time out of your lives to help an idiot. I know I'm being somewhat selfish, and I suspect you know this too, but I hope someday I can return the favor for any of you who falls into the same mind-trap that I'm currently in.

River



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Friday, March 24, 2006 10:12 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by IsaacShepherd:
River,
I'm sorry to hear about what has happened to you. I wish I could say more helpful words but I cannot begin to relate to what has happened to you. All I can do is try to help. I'm not much of a talker in real life, but I'm an excellent listener and there are others on this site that are as well. We'd all like to help you.

One amazing thing about being a Browncoat is we're all like family. We all generally care about other people and what happens to other people. Hang in there cause there are people there for you, who'll support you. I thing I've always admired about Mal was his determination and to go through everything that you have, you must have as much or more than Mal does. If there is anything more we can do let us know.
IS

The Bible's a bit fuzzy on the subject of kneecaps.



IsaacShepherd,
Thanks for your support and kind words of encouragment.

I didnt mean to write so much yesterday! I guess I started typing, and all the words just sort of came out. I never told anyone my story before. I guess I was kinda embarrassed about it. I guess I had expected people here to tell me to shut up and call me an attention whore. I didnt expect anyone to really read between the lines and see the human there. I'm impressed, and I'm glad to be wrong about people.

I'm a determined person in everything I do...I've always been this way. Life to me is a continual Serenity valley. Though, it would be nice if the war would stopped for awhile so I can at least smell the roses.



The River that Tripped

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Friday, March 24, 2006 10:15 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverman:
River, I'm not going to tell you that you have a lot to live for, because you are the judge of that. I also won't tell you that life is peachy, 'cause it ain't. What I do have to say, even though it probably wont change your mind, is that I care. And I would be honored to call you a friend, even if only for a short time. And if you want to talk, well, friends are there for each other. I'll be there for you; all you have to do is ask.



Good grief!

So many nice words in one day! Because of you guys this day ended nicely. Nice words for me!!! This is rare. Thanks Reaverman! Someone cares about me! I'm nothing more than words on a screen and some cares abut me! This is a good thing.

I don't know how to be a friend but I'll give it a try.

Thank you



A Stunned River

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Friday, March 24, 2006 10:30 PM

REAVERMAN


River,
Being a friend is easy. All friends have to do is be there for each other. If there is ever anything you want to talk about, or if you want advice, or anything else, I'll be here.

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Friday, March 24, 2006 11:40 PM

HIXIE129


Hi River

I'm glad you decided to go into work for a few hours, it really is the only way to get back into the swing of things at work.

Hope you felt a little better today, or yesterday, whatever day it is, I see that it is Saturday.

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Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:01 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
. I got to keep this stuff hidden as long as I'm able. who wants to know if their boss is crazy..lol!



Everyone knows that their boss is crazy....

As one who was literally one quart of blood from death, I'll tell ya that getting that close to the other side of the Exit sign offered no revelations or new awareness, only a bunch of irritating stitches. And one friend who called me a 'surprisingly stupid dumass'. *chuckles* In hindsight, he was so right.

I'm glad if any of us could help, even a little...
I'll be back.

(And check out Dark Angel, like I said)Chrisisall

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Saturday, March 25, 2006 6:11 AM

OTMA


Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:

OTMA,
Thank you for the words of courage. Sorry for me being so blasted egocentric.
I actully do want to die, but before I give up the ghost, I want to know that I tried everything. Life has a way of catching up with you...and its catching up with me fast!!! I can't run fast enough, so its time to hunch my shoulders, turn around and face my demons, and I have a LOT of demons.

I do want to stop hurting. You are correct saying this. And I thought I was being so smart now look what I've gone and done to myself. I'm not going to get rid of my gun...not at all. I want it with me right next to this computer. Its a reminder, its a reminder that I have choices. Its a reminder that if I really wanted too, I could take my life this second. I have the power...I have the choice. Its important for me to know that I have a choice, and sometimes its good to force yourself into some kind of "final showdown"

This is going to sound rather funny. strange as it may sound. I used up all my survival skills to get me this far, and now I don't have any survival skills that works for thse more modern time at the age that I'm at. I made it to the top of the heap and I now I'm the weakest one of them all. Crazy huh?

Thank you for talking to me. Thank you all for taking the time out of your lives to help an idiot. I know I'm being somewhat selfish, and I suspect you know this too, but I hope someday I can return the favor for any of you who falls into the same mind-trap that I'm currently in.

River





I understand what you're saying. The choice should always be yours. When the choice is yours and yours alone, and you've made that choice, it's a powerful thing. Sometimes you need to stand at the edge.
I think you've got hard times comin', but you've got what it takes to win. You can count me as a friend if that suits you.

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Saturday, March 25, 2006 7:02 PM

RIVER6213


I'm going to let this thread die and allow it to fall into the maw of archived threads. This is my last post here on the firefly.net board for reasons I'm certain that you are able to all divine on your own. Try not to celebrate all at once.

I want to thank all the people here who have put up with all of my noise...I really do. You were all so engaging and a lot of you have taught me something of value. I have been on this board since September of 2005, and I’m very glad that I got to know some of you…good or bad it was a fun, frustrating, and a very engaging experience. I’m just sorry I couldn’t fit in as much as I wanted to, but that’s what I get for being a dysfunctional one of a kind type of personality
. I’m happy that I got at least a little good science fiction before I went. Malcolm Reynolds, Zoë, Wash, Kaylee, Jayne, Simon, Book, Inara, and River.

One last thing I want to say that will not make any sense to any of you but it’s very important for me to say. I really wish the Soviet Union hadn’t fallen. If it hadn’t, a chain of events wouldn’t have been set off, and I would not have been made so miserable. Strange thing about cause and effect, you never know how an event is going to effect you, or your life.

Goodbye all of you strange browncoat people. I really do hope you get a new series or at least another movie. With all the fuss you kick up, you deserve it. You guys and gals are so funny, and I had fun laughing.

Goodbye

River6213

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Saturday, March 25, 2006 8:50 PM

OTMA


Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I'm going to let this thread die and allow it to fall into the maw of archived threads. This is my last post here on the firefly.net board for reasons I'm certain that you are able to all divine on your own. Try not to celebrate all at once.

I want to thank all the people here who have put up with all of my noise...I really do. You were all so engaging and a lot of you have taught me something of value. I have been on this board since September of 2005, and I’m very glad that I got to know some of you…good or bad it was a fun, frustrating, and a very engaging experience. I’m just sorry I couldn’t fit in as much as I wanted to, but that’s what I get for being a dysfunctional one of a kind type of personality
. I’m happy that I got at least a little good science fiction before I went. Malcolm Reynolds, Zoë, Wash, Kaylee, Jayne, Simon, Book, Inara, and River.

One last thing I want to say that will not make any sense to any of you but it’s very important for me to say. I really wish the Soviet Union hadn’t fallen. If it hadn’t, a chain of events wouldn’t have been set off, and I would not have been made so miserable. Strange thing about cause and effect, you never know how an event is going to effect you, or your life.

Goodbye all of you strange browncoat people. I really do hope you get a new series or at least another movie. With all the fuss you kick up, you deserve it. You guys and gals are so funny, and I had fun laughing.

Goodbye

River6213



Is that it then? Are you really gone this time? Are you reading this, or not? Did you decide to keep flyin', or did you find that bullet with your name on it? I guess I'll only know for sure if you post again. Otherwise, I'll just have to decide what I want to believe.
If that goodbye was real, if you've left this group, and maybe this world . . . well, goodbye then, River6213. You won't be forgotten. Maybe I'm talking to empty air, maybe not. We say what we need to say, what we think is right, and we hope it's enough.
It could have been different. It should have been.
If you don't come back, I hope things are better for you wherever you are.

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Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:56 PM

REAVERMAN


Trust me, I know a thing or two about suicide notes, and that was one. I think she's actually done it. Who knows, maybe she's happier now. Goodbye, River. You'll always be a friend in my book.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Sunday, March 26, 2006 8:33 AM

CHRISISALL


*tears*

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Monday, March 27, 2006 3:26 AM

HIXIE129


*All I can do is wait, now I am left home all alone*

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Monday, March 27, 2006 8:18 AM

CHRISISALL


Tell us if you're okay, if you didn't leave, and got help or something. Will ya?


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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:45 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Tell us if you're okay, if you didn't leave, and got help or something. Will ya?





Please do.

Anyone know how to reach River & make sure she is okay?

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org


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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:07 AM

ISAACSHEPHERD


*hoping and waiting for River's return*

The Bible's a bit fuzzy on the subject of kneecaps.

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 2:42 PM

REAVERMAN


Its been a few days now, and I cant shake the thought that I could have done more, said more to help her. Maybe its just arrogance on my part that I could have said or done anything to change her mind, I'll never know, and that's what eats at me. Maybe I'm wrong and she didn't do it. Its a possibility, but it's not one that I can bring myself to believe. I'm not sure why I'm writing this. Maybe I need someone to tell me I'm right to feel guilty or not. Or, maybe I just wanted to get this off my chest. Maybe that's somethimg else that I'll never really know. And maybe I should stop bothering you folks with my problems. Sorry...

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 3:30 PM

MINIME


Cliches ahead... But they're true, so here goes.

Reaverman:
Whatever has happened or hasn't happened is not your fault. I don't think you should feel guilty. (But I wouldn't start down the path of feeling guilty for feeling guilty.)

And, as you do know - Browncoats never mind helping each other out with problems.

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 5:32 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by minime:
Cliches ahead... But they're true, so here goes.

Reaverman:
Whatever has happened or hasn't happened is not your fault. I don't think you should feel guilty. (But I wouldn't start down the path of feeling guilty for feeling guilty.)

And, as you do know - Browncoats never mind helping each other out with problems.




Minime is right Reaverman. You have nothing to feel guilty for. River is an adult and her decisions are her own and no one elses responsibility. The fact that you truly care shows that your heart is in the right place & that you did all you could to help River.

I didn't really get to talk to her much, and I honestly must say I was put off a bit by some of her more heated comments about Christians, but I am holding out hope she is okay & will return.

Chin up Reaverman. Browncoats stick together & it is only right that we do all we can to look out for one another. We're family.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org


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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 6:08 AM

JOHNBOYTOO


Hmmm....
not been on this board in a while and have to admit I too am wondering about this thread....

With a little experience behind me, somewhat of a blunt personality, and a smidgen of intellect...

Please take this in the helpful way it is offered...

Suicide is NOT a solution... period...
What would that REALLY solve?
just as the thread topic "to be or not to be"....
is really a tangent on "Why are we hear?"...
MANY "smarter" people than I have tried to answer that... and you know, to this day, NO ONE alive really knows for sure... they may propose that they do, but how do THEY or we know....

And although, if we knew the answer to that, I would think MANY of our actions and decision would be different, does it REALLY matter what the answer is ?

I am a simple man,
I hav da kollege teachin, I have da hard knocks learnin....
but I decided a long time ago that I will try to bring effect to the things I can affect :)

If all I have is a hand trowel, I'm not going to attempt to dig for oil, I will seek out the right tool for the job !

My reason for each day, is the joy and laughter each day brings.... Money or lack of it, does not matter, hard times or good times, impacts it only slightly, my belief system thus far has done welll for me....

I TRULY believe you are never faced with more than you can "handle" --- maybe it IS more than you ALONE can handle --- and believe me the loss of a 16 year old son to suicide IS more than ANY parent can handle....

and it NEVER gets better, it just gets "less worse".... it is a part of EVERY breath I take, the guilt, the blame, the "what could I have done".... it has taken a VERY long time and a lot of thought and discussion to realize that it was not of my doing.... no mater how much care and love you give, it is not you, so you don't decide that...

And the sense of aloneness that my son must have felt could not have been more incorrect....

I think now his spirit KNOWS that, but his life will never since it ended on July 5th, 2000.

After was a continual stream of people, kids, teachers, emails, calls, letters,etc... of concern and condolences....
not to me, but for him !

A GREAT, loving, kind, young man that mistook life as something else....

************************************

Is it possible you are more "self-centered" than you think you are? (is that a nice way of saying arrogant :) ?

Is it possible that you think of yourself on a higher level than "the rest of us"....


Who knows why we are here, but do know this...

EVERYONE effects someone, every moment... maybe it is yourself, maybe it is others, maybe if is a memory....

So life is an adventure, knowing that EVERY little decision, no matter how mundane, affects the path you take....

just a .0005 degree turn to the left early enough in your trip will redirect you LIGHT years to the left of the potential previous target after a while....

good luck, and understand that there are more GOOD people out there than not...

it's just that the "bad guys" are usually louder and the news media always leads with what bleeds :)

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 8:25 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverman:
Maybe I need someone to tell me I'm right to feel guilty or not.

You're guilty of caring, that's all. I feel bad too. But I think we did what we could, in this limited way.

Until we find out otherwise, she might be okay...



Chrisisall

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:44 PM

OTMA


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverman:
Its been a few days now, and I cant shake the thought that I could have done more, said more to help her. Maybe its just arrogance on my part that I could have said or done anything to change her mind, I'll never know, and that's what eats at me. Maybe I'm wrong and she didn't do it. Its a possibility, but it's not one that I can bring myself to believe. I'm not sure why I'm writing this. Maybe I need someone to tell me I'm right to feel guilty or not. Or, maybe I just wanted to get this off my chest. Maybe that's somethimg else that I'll never really know. And maybe I should stop bothering you folks with my problems. Sorry...

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.



I wish I could have said or done more too, but I don't think it's realistic to imagine I could have. I'd like to think that maybe she didn't do it. Her post before the last one really sounded like she had decided the other way. All I know is that I honestly tried. I never said a word to her I didn't mean. I was worried every time I posted here that I might not be saying the right things for her to hear, but I figured I'd never be sure exactly what the "right" approach was, so I just said what I honestly felt, the best way I could think to. If she's still out there, I don't begrudge her the uncertainty she's causing by not saying so now. I could understand her needing time away.I'd hope someday she could let us know. If not, I feel sad, but not guilty. I would have felt guilty if I hadn't tried, or if I had tried to manipulate her dishonestly and it backfired. I think you tried the best you could too, and that your efforts were sincere. I can understand it bothering you, it bothers me too, but I wouldn't put any guilt on you. We never tried to take her choices away, we just tried to show her that she had a choice, that it didn't have to end that way, and that she wouldn't have to face the future alone. Whether it worked or not, I think it was the right thing to do.

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Monday, April 3, 2006 8:25 AM

RIVER6213


Well, for all of those who are interested, I made it back. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing, but here I am.

River

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Monday, April 3, 2006 9:54 AM

NUCLEARDAY


Good to see you back :)

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

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Monday, April 3, 2006 10:01 AM

RIVER6213


The fact that I am back is by complete luck. I guess "recoil" never factored into my plan.

River

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Monday, April 3, 2006 10:05 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Well, for all of those who are interested, I made it back. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing, but here I am.

River

To quote from an Indy movie:
"Oh, my friend! I'm so glad you're not dead!"

Ya scared us.
Made it back from.....?



Relieved Chrisisall

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Monday, April 3, 2006 10:27 AM

RIVER6213


I made it back from the hospital Sunday.

River

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Monday, April 3, 2006 10:39 AM

CHRISISALL


I'm assuming you're on a pain medication, am I right?
You aren't usually this short with replies.
Are you all right?
Did you come close?

If you don't want to expand on what you've already written, I'll certainly understand.

You haven't run out of future yet.

Chrisisall, thanking recoil

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Monday, April 3, 2006 10:54 AM

RIVER6213


I'm being short because I'm typing with one hand. I won't have the use of my whole, left hand and arm for awhile. It takes forever to type anything. You are correct, I am on some serious pain medication.

And yes, I did come close; I commited suicide, but as you can see, I was totally unsuccessful, and also I am in big trouble with the authorities. It seems that my little attempt caused a great stir in the neighborhood that I live in.

River

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Monday, April 3, 2006 11:23 AM

CHRISISALL


Well, fortunatly or not, your journey just got more interesting. And now you have new obsticles to overcome.
This may be something that ultimatly makes you stronger. That depends, of course, on you.

*And seeing as you will now have the time to watch it, get the first season of Dark Angel.*

As a fellow close call (not quite as close, I just lost half my blood in a stupid broken glass 'accident'), I'm glad you get a second chance too.

What do you think, are you feeling up to the challenge just now?



Chris

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