GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

I Need the Ugly Truth-Please Help Me

POSTED BY: RIVER6213
UPDATED: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 15:03
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 8107
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Sunday, March 5, 2006 7:58 PM

RIVER6213


Fellow Browncoats,

Maybe it’s for is an Adults bid for reasonable attention and input, but no other, so please make an attempt to understand. I hope you do, and I hope you respond!

I need your help, and if you can’t, then I understand. I Am a difficult human.

As Citizen pointed out, you are all not my therapy group, but I need your help because I am having difficulties, trouble seeing how my presence, my opinions, and points of view have affected you and other people.

I am a very successful woman. I'm good at science and any left-brained activity, but when it comes to social, conversations, and feelings, I always fail to be able to interpret the situation. When I think I’m being humorous other find it so not humorous. When I am being vague other take what I say and interpret it in a different way other than what I meant. When I’m happy, people act towards me like I’m sad. When I’m sad, people treat me as though I’m angry…go figure.

This forum is my only outlet for the ideas of freedom of expression if you can understand that, and YES, I know it’s a Firefly forum, but I am River in more ways than you want to know, so I think it fits here. Have I offended anyone here, or on this board in any primary, core way? Are my crimes so major, that it means I have to be ignored? And am I that bad? Do my escapades mean that I have no opinion worth looking at?

For all the people who have wondered about this sort of thing. You can have all the money on earth you could ever want. You can have all the status on earth that you will every need, but in the end, when the smoke clears, and the applause has ended, all you really have wanted (as I have) is the understanding of your fellow human being.

In this day and period, this can only come from a browncoat.

River

BTW I was in the news last night





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Sunday, March 5, 2006 8:10 PM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION


There is a condition called Asperger's Syndrome. Many people who are "socially clueless" actually have Aspergers. Remember, I am not a doctor...nor do I play one on tv...but it wouldn't hurt to look up the info and at least rule it out.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 8:41 PM

RIVER6213


Sorry about that. My mistake was I forgot that humans were incapable of being trusted or believed. Strike my original post.

I am such a foolish human

Citizen was right...I Do need help



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Sunday, March 5, 2006 9:30 PM

STDOUBT


Quote:


BTW I was in the news last night


For what?
(EDIT: Trust always depends on mutuality.
Knowledge trumps Belief).
Quote:


Citizen was right...I Do need help


All you need is Love.

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 9:33 PM

SINGATE


You don't need help. I for one think your presence around here really livens things up. I haven't read anything of yours that would be deemed offensive. Then again I have a pretty thick skin. Believe me there are a few others around this board who have done far worse than you. A few people seemed to get bent out of shape over that whole 'destroy the world thread' you started a ways back but from what I could tell most of them were glad you stuck around.



_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 9:58 PM

RIVER6213


***Mood shift complete***
***complete anger towards humanity engaged***

I need to stop posting here. I say stupid things, as you all have figured out by now.
I wrote that IDIOTIC post while I was in what I call a foolish state of mind. I call it the "Cry for help" state of mind, but I locked down that weak part of my being. I need no help; help is for the weak. Pay no attention to it. Love is for the weak. I need no one. Humans are a waste of time. Friendship are a stupid waste of time. My career is all that matters, and the hell with humanity.

This thread is CLOSED because I made a mistake.

River

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:00 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by STDOUBT:
Quote:


BTW I was in the news last night


For what?
(EDIT: Trust always depends on mutuality.
Knowledge trumps Belief).
Quote:


Citizen was right...I Do need help


All you need is Love.




Love is for the weak

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:27 PM

ANOBJECTINSPACE


Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Quote:

Originally posted by STDOUBT:
Quote:


BTW I was in the news last night


For what?
(EDIT: Trust always depends on mutuality.
Knowledge trumps Belief).
Quote:


Citizen was right...I Do need help


All you need is Love.




Love is for the weak



We are weak beings. All of us.

.....
"It's just an Object"
[IMG][/IMG]

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:31 PM

RIVER6213


I always thought success would bring me happiness. I find that now I've arrived I hate everything and everyone so screw all of you.

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 11:00 PM

SINGATE


Love and happiness are illusions created by people to make their lives seem more meaningful. Hate is the truest friend you will ever have so revel in it. An angry River is a good River.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 2:53 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

I am a very successful woman. I'm good at science and any left-brained activity, but when it comes to social, conversations, and feelings, I always fail to be able to interpret the situation. When I think I’m being humorous other find it so not humorous. When I am being vague other take what I say and interpret it in a different way other than what I meant. When I’m happy, people act towards me like I’m sad. When I’m sad, people treat me as though I’m angry…go figure.


Alright, so let me try and gauge whether there is a correlation between the conventional meaning of the words you say and the attitude/emotion that you are really trying to express - this way I can maybe speak to you in your own language in the future

Your last post was angry, right?

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Monday, March 6, 2006 3:35 AM

THEPISTONENGINE


That's not very cheerful, is it? By the way, what were you in the news about.

You seriously need to get a grip on yourself. If you're somehow more socially inept than me, you'd be, well, special. I'm 19 years old and still not even close to losing my virginity.

Hey, everyone can't be the most humorous type. I've given up and tried the tactic of just telling absolute groaners. But the point is, DEAL with it. You don't need professional help, you don't have a syndrome. You just need to accept your limitations, improve on what you can, and deal. Hell, if all of us hear dwelt on our faults, we'd all have to shoot ourselves.

If you have trouble relating to people, maybe you haven't found the right people to relate with? Or maybe you need to stop trying. Seriously, it works. Just relax, be yourself. Everyone says stupid things.

I'm babbling. But you get my point. And I hate you too :-D
Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I always thought success would bring me happiness. I find that now I've arrived I hate everything and everyone so screw all of you.



_____________
Carry the Nuttin'

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Monday, March 6, 2006 3:36 AM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION


You may also want to look up bipolar disorder while you are at it. Lets rule that one out too.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Monday, March 6, 2006 4:29 AM

GIXXER


The truth needn't be ugly.

Your average Browncoat is a happy little bunny, supportive, sensible and generally a Good Person to have around. Might even, in exceptional circumstances, climb up onto the pyre with you, but obviously the First Plan would be to cut you the hell down from it. Did I mention pragmatic too?

However this, and maybe The Montana .50 cal Varmint Shooters Forum, are probably the last places you want to look for such important advice.

Find someone with a couch. Depending on the situation, have a hug, or a proper analytical discussion. Emphasis on the "or"...

G


(No offence meant to the hunters, naturally. I live in England, but I know those Barretts have some serious range on them...)

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Monday, March 6, 2006 5:00 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Fellow Browncoats,

Maybe it’s for is an Adults bid for reasonable attention and input, but no other, so please make an attempt to understand. I hope you do, and I hope you respond!

I need your help, and if you can’t, then I understand. I Am a difficult human.

As Citizen pointed out, you are all not my therapy group, but I need your help because I am having difficulties, trouble seeing how my presence, my opinions, and points of view have affected you and other people.

I am a very successful woman. I'm good at science and any left-brained activity, but when it comes to social, conversations, and feelings, I always fail to be able to interpret the situation. When I think I’m being humorous other find it so not humorous. When I am being vague other take what I say and interpret it in a different way other than what I meant. When I’m happy, people act towards me like I’m sad. When I’m sad, people treat me as though I’m angry…go figure.

This forum is my only outlet for the ideas of freedom of expression if you can understand that, and YES, I know it’s a Firefly forum, but I am River in more ways than you want to know, so I think it fits here. Have I offended anyone here, or on this board in any primary, core way? Are my crimes so major, that it means I have to be ignored? And am I that bad? Do my escapades mean that I have no opinion worth looking at?

For all the people who have wondered about this sort of thing. You can have all the money on earth you could ever want. You can have all the status on earth that you will every need, but in the end, when the smoke clears, and the applause has ended, all you really have wanted (as I have) is the understanding of your fellow human being.

In this day and period, this can only come from a browncoat.




Dear River,

I'm not sure what to say, precisely. I can see why you ask, though. But I can honestly say you've never said or done anything that I felt even remotely offended about (not even when you replied to say River alone is not a good enough reason for humanity to be spared, lol). Switching to serious again.

Perhaps it's got something to do with the way I read, but I'm never bothered when you're frustrated, or appear a bit angry even. I really rather think it's simply a matter of your own humanity shining through, though, despite everything on the surface. If anything, I ere feel more connected to you than less. Like you say, at the end of the day, what we all just really need is the understanding of our fellow human beings. As Contact put it so nicely: "The only thing we've found that makes the emptiness bearable is each other." Ain't nothing wrong with being needy in this regard -- whatever you may have heard elsewhere.

Style, expression, word choice, these can all be altered, if need be. And perhaps you feel the need to. I, from my end of the equation, can just say I'm always happy when you post. For one, because it simply means you're still on our crew. Now, I take it that's probably not a sufficient enough reason for you not to wonder about certain things. But all I can really say is, that in spite of some misgiving you may have about the way you express yourself, you still manage to communicate in such a way that I can genuinely say that I like you. And I'm confident enough to state, that if I feel this way, there be many more with me.

Stay strong!


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, March 6, 2006 7:43 AM

HIXIE129


River, wake up damn it, snap out it girl. You had a moment of weakness.

There are there lots of people who love you, I love you. I feel the same as Asarian, he really did a great job explaining how many of us feel. I'm happy when you post.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 12:30 PM

RIVER6213


Okay, okay!!! So I'm a crazy person with a big mouth...sue me. I'm beginning to see that its sort of weird of me coming into this forum and kicking up all the fuss I do...its strange. If the people at my company could see me now they wouldnt know what to think. They never see this insane part of me, and I hope to god they never do. They are used to my Vulcan demeanor, which I practiced for years, and now I have it down to a fine art. The problem is, when I finally make it home, and I'm alone, and you get a couple of glasses of wine into me, I start to act weird. This seems to be getting worse and worse. Not the wine part, but the acting weird part.

I work almost 24/7...I live at my job because I believe that if you want it done right, do it yourself, but I think I'm starting to come unglued. I was sleep walking last week...3 times! I havent done that crap since I was a child! Yep, this is it, this is the big one...I'm going crazy. Its time to go get a shrink and find out what my problem is before I crack up and beat the crap out of someone, or jump off a bridge....I like the beat the crap out of someone idea better though.

I can see it now. I'll go to a shrink, and I'll tell him/her what my problem is, and they will know right there that they will be able to buy that new boat they always wanted, or put all their kids through college with what I'll be paying them for therapy. Maybe they might have me locked up? That wouldnt be a good thing. Those bozo's at my company would ruin my business, and I'll have to break out of the crazy house I'm at just to hunt them all down and impale their collective heads to a telephone pole.

Anyhow, thanks for the nice words you sympathetic souls, watching a crazy person go through their craziness. I honestly don't really remember starting this pathetic thread by the way.

I think I'll go over to the Storm-front, White Supremacy forum and start up an argument there. Those guys really have no sense of humor, and its fun to poke fun at them because they spend way too much time goose-stepping around, looking at photos of hitler, and hating everyone except for their own pathetic selves....I hate them.

Yup! Without a shadow of a doubt I'm crazy...even I can see it now. Why is it that crazy people are always the last to see their craziness?

River


Holy split personality Batman!

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Monday, March 6, 2006 12:50 PM

STDOUBT


Damn... I wish we could meet up.
Are you an Aries?

Regarding what you said about weakness-
The most tender substance can wear down the mountains.
True strength is gentle.
May you melt.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 12:58 PM

CHINDI


welllll in CASE this is a serious thread... I wanted to add that I have never been offended by any of your posts... and in case it is NOT a serious thread.. let me just add that screwing can be wacky fun! so "screw you" COULD be a compliment...

Chindi

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Monday, March 6, 2006 1:10 PM

CYBERSNARK


*hugs river*

You're right.

I actually put a fair bit of thought into what I could say that wouldn't sound like a Hallmark card, but that's all I got: You are right.

Mercy, kindness, compassion --these are all crutches for the weak and flawed.

Thing is though, that's what humans are (and Vulcans, and just about any other sapient race that could conceivably exist --and I'm not even sure about animals). That's what the universe makes us. Tiamat knows, I have little patience for humanity either. The best thing I can say is that 95% of them wander through their lives with their eyes half-closed, not wanting to be anything other than dullard robots. Not even "people," but just bundles of pre-determined reactions, about as "alive" as NPCs in a video game. At worst. . .

And yeah, you're crazy. Ain't nothing wrong with that, it just means you're not like anyone else.

I'm not gonna throw platitudes at you: being different sucks. It's not fun, it's miserable, and painful, and scary, whether you admit to knowing fear or not. There may very well be no one else like you on the planet.

But you're here now. See how nobody here's attacking you. Flawed, imperfect, and crazy as you are, you're one of us.

Plain and simple fact is, as long as you exist, the world will have to deal with you. And the moment you leave it, the world will be different (maybe not worse, but maybe not better, but I hereby guarantee this: you will be missed). Don't go just yet, you might miss how it ends.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 2:33 PM

CITIZEN


It's not a requirement too listen to a word I have to say.

Unless it helps, but if it doesn't, don't listen, it's probably stupid.

Or something.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

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Monday, March 6, 2006 2:43 PM

SAMEERTIA


Gixxer, I'd climb on the pyre with you.
That's just the kind of friend I am.


River, sweetie. RELAX!
Breathe in and out a few times. I'm trying to catch up to this thread and decifer it all but I'm lost.
I can't tell where you're being serious and where you're really just coming undone.

One thing about boards like this one, though, is that people can't hear what you mean. It helps to use the emoticons to express the emotions behind your words.
A simple - can let people know you're just fooling.
Where a - can let people know you've actually really lost it this time.

We're Browncoats. We're family. We're here to support each other, even when we don't all believe and think the same ways.
*hugs*


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Monday, March 6, 2006 2:48 PM

THEPISTONENGINE


Here's what I think you need to do. Go to a bar. Meet someone, many someones. Have fun. Be yourself.

Stop looking for help on the forums, find it with other flesh and blood people. Speaking of which, I think there's a hot brunette coming over to my dorm room in a few...

_____________
Carry the Nuttin'

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Monday, March 6, 2006 2:55 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by STDOUBT:
Damn... I wish we could meet up.
Are you an Aries?

Regarding what you said about weakness-
The most tender substance can wear down the mountains.
True strength is gentle.
May you melt.



Aries? No I'm a Taurus. I was born in May, so I think that makes me a Taurus...full of bull and all of that.
Finding out one is crazy is not an amusing affair, but now to the dirty business of finding a shrink.

River

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Monday, March 6, 2006 3:03 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by Chindi:
welllll in CASE this is a serious thread... I wanted to add that I have never been offended by any of your posts... and in case it is NOT a serious thread.. let me just add that screwing can be wacky fun! so "screw you" COULD be a compliment...

Chindi



This IS a serious thread even though I don't remember making it last night. I think I must have been in a pretty messed up state of mind. I have all these other emails from other forums in my mailbox and most of them are hate mail, so I must have said a lot of pretty nasty things to a whole bunch of people. One guy sent me a swatika, but thats from that hate-site forum, so I dont mind. Anytime I upset those people is a good day for me.

Thanks for not being offended by my many deranged posts. I've never been a go with the crowd kinda person, and that alone has made me more enemies in life than anything else.

Screwing? I haven’t had nor desired sex in 6 years...no sense starting up on that...who needs the headache that comes with human, sexual involvement?

River





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Monday, March 6, 2006 3:07 PM

GORBISHUN


Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Okay, okay!!! So I'm a crazy person with a big mouth...sue me. I'm beginning to see that its sort of weird of me coming into this forum and kicking up all the fuss I do...its strange. If the people at my company could see me now they wouldnt know what to think. They never see this insane part of me, and I hope to god they never do. They are used to my Vulcan demeanor, which I practiced for years, and now I have it down to a fine art. The problem is, when I finally make it home, and I'm alone, and you get a couple of glasses of wine into me, I start to act weird. This seems to be getting worse and worse. Not the wine part, but the acting weird part.

I work almost 24/7...I live at my job because I believe that if you want it done right, do it yourself, but I think I'm starting to come unglued. I was sleep walking last week...3 times! I havent done that crap since I was a child! Yep, this is it, this is the big one...I'm going crazy. Its time to go get a shrink and find out what my problem is before I crack up and beat the crap out of someone, or jump off a bridge....I like the beat the crap out of someone idea better though.

I can see it now. I'll go to a shrink, and I'll tell him/her what my problem is, and they will know right there that they will be able to buy that new boat they always wanted, or put all their kids through college with what I'll be paying them for therapy. Maybe they might have me locked up? That wouldnt be a good thing. Those bozo's at my company would ruin my business, and I'll have to break out of the crazy house I'm at just to hunt them all down and impale their collective heads to a telephone pole.

Anyhow, thanks for the nice words you sympathetic souls, watching a crazy person go through their craziness. I honestly don't really remember starting this pathetic thread by the way.

I think I'll go over to the Storm-front, White Supremacy forum and start up an argument there. Those guys really have no sense of humor, and its fun to poke fun at them because they spend way too much time goose-stepping around, looking at photos of hitler, and hating everyone except for their own pathetic selves....I hate them.

Yup! Without a shadow of a doubt I'm crazy...even I can see it now. Why is it that crazy people are always the last to see their craziness?

River


Holy split personality Batman!


You should be a writer. I'm sorry if this is insulting, or makes you feel bad in any way, but that post almost had me pissing myself . It was just so well written, and "darkly hilarious!"

Again, I'm sorry; I don't think you were trying to be funny. I just can't help it,

Just be yourself and do what you want. Your life is your's to live, however you want.

«°-:-°»
Also... I can kill you with my brain.

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Monday, March 6, 2006 3:12 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
*hugs river*

You're right.

I actually put a fair bit of thought into what I could say that wouldn't sound like a Hallmark card, but that's all I got: You are right.

Mercy, kindness, compassion --these are all crutches for the weak and flawed.

Thing is though, that's what humans are (and Vulcans, and just about any other sapient race that could conceivably exist --and I'm not even sure about animals). That's what the universe makes us. Tiamat knows, I have little patience for humanity either. The best thing I can say is that 95% of them wander through their lives with their eyes half-closed, not wanting to be anything other than dullard robots. Not even "people," but just bundles of pre-determined reactions, about as "alive" as NPCs in a video game. At worst. . .

And yeah, you're crazy. Ain't nothing wrong with that, it just means you're not like anyone else.

I'm not gonna throw platitudes at you: being different sucks. It's not fun, it's miserable, and painful, and scary, whether you admit to knowing fear or not. There may very well be no one else like you on the planet.

But you're here now. See how nobody here's attacking you. Flawed, imperfect, and crazy as you are, you're one of us.

Plain and simple fact is, as long as you exist, the world will have to deal with you. And the moment you leave it, the world will be different (maybe not worse, but maybe not better, but I hereby guarantee this: you will be missed). Don't go just yet, you might miss how it ends.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.



I havent had a hug in 6 years, and don't need one, but thanks for the thought. BTW nice post! Such nice, well thought up things to say to the crazy person. I do know that you meant every word, so please dont take my response as sarcasm. Thank you for caring for someone you’ve never met before. You must have a big heart.

And you are right. No one is attacking me, which goes to show how much I know about human nature. I tend to see most people I meet as wolves disguised as sheep, and the moment your back is turned BAM!! in goes the knife, which is why I limited my contact with people 6 years ago.

Thank you for the kind words and point of view. I am going through the yellow pages right now, trying to find a shrink. Are you aware that there a about a billion shrinks in this phone book? I guess crazy people are big business.

River


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Monday, March 6, 2006 3:24 PM

SAMEERTIA


Well, nobody NEEDS sex. It can just be an awful lot of fun sometimes.

It does help to have a professional to help work through issues and find resolution. Be sure to check references, and find someone who you feel supports you and who you can work with. The right therapist can save your life. The wrong one can ruin it.

From my opinion, it doesn't sound like you've gone crazy. It sounds like you're under alot of stress at work, and don't have any resources for venting that stress. It's manifesting itself in your mood swings and your sleepwalking.

If at all possible, take a few days off and treat yourself to something good- a day at the beach, check into the local Hilton for a mini-vacation, anything you can do to change scenery and get a break.

Sleepwalking is really scary! Since you sleep-walked as a child, you probably know the tricks already, but I'm gonna list 'em here just in case!

Before you go to bed, put a good thick rubber band on the doorknob running from the doorknob to the faceplate of the door, OR put a wooden block at the bottom of the door (providing it opens inwards) or put painters tape around the door to seal it- ANYTHING to baffle yourself if you try to get out. Sleepwalkers tend to do what-ever is normal for them, so just locking the door means your asleep mind will simply firgure out how to unlock it.

(I was once found wandering a block from home. Nice officer asked what I was doing outside barefoot and I told him I wanted some pie. Thank heavens my roommate was already looking for me!)

Do a series of yoga or light stretches before bed to relax the body and get your mind in sync. This will help relieve the stress that's causing the sleepwalking.

If you have stairs in your house, block the top of them before you go to bed. A child-gate, or big cardboard box (big enough you won't trip over it) will work very well. I've fallen downstairs in my sleep- kind of a rude awakening.

If you're a 'doer', put tape on the handles of the water faucets and the fridge door, etc.

Like I said, all stuff you probably know, but it's important to keep yourself safe!

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Monday, March 6, 2006 3:30 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
It's not a requirement too listen to a word I have to say.

Unless it helps, but if it doesn't, don't listen, it's probably stupid.

Or something.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear






What are you taking about? You’re yelling at me a month ago had an interesting effect…it made me cry, hard. No one has spoken to me that way in, well, never, except for my mother, and that was a thousand years ago. It was a no-holds bar point of view by yourself based on all the things you read that I posted. And you basically gave me both barrels. I experienced something I have never experienced in my life…I was ashamed, so naturally what came next was something I normally don’t do. I wrote an apology posts. That shook me up, and at that moment, I started to become suspicious about the nature of my character….something was up with me and of course, I was the last one to find out.

One last thing. So far all of what I’ve read of your posting and writings here on this board has been anything but stupid. You are really smart and I respect that. People respect you here.

River

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Monday, March 6, 2006 3:44 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by SameErtia:
Gixxer, I'd climb on the pyre with you.
That's just the kind of friend I am.


River, sweetie. RELAX!
Breathe in and out a few times. I'm trying to catch up to this thread and decifer it all but I'm lost.
I can't tell where you're being serious and where you're really just coming undone.

One thing about boards like this one, though, is that people can't hear what you mean. It helps to use the emoticons to express the emotions behind your words.
A simple - can let people know you're just fooling.
Where a - can let people know you've actually really lost it this time.

We're Browncoats. We're family. We're here to support each other, even when we don't all believe and think the same ways.
*hugs*




Thats very strange! I never even noticed those what did you call them? Emoiticons? I never noticed them at all. I'm going to have to try them out once I figure out how to use them!

I really wish I were fooling around, but it appears that I'm crackers, nuts, crazy, an emotional cripple, a burned out life form, a shame to decent society, therefore, I have to do something about it because sooner or later, an event may take place for myself that will be very unpleasent.
I've been going through the yellow pages in search of a shrink. There are so many!!! How do you decide which one is right for you? This is gonna get expensive, but what do I have to lose right? Whoever I pick better know how to fight!

Sorry to bring my personal BS to all of you nice people, but I have created such an isolated life for myself in the past 6 years. This is as close as I let people get to me...this is the safest way for me to communicate with other people. Any other way and I become a Vulcan.

River





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Monday, March 6, 2006 3:51 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by SameErtia:
Well, nobody NEEDS sex. It can just be an awful lot of fun sometimes.

It does help to have a professional to help work through issues and find resolution. Be sure to check references, and find someone who you feel supports you and who you can work with. The right therapist can save your life. The wrong one can ruin it.

From my opinion, it doesn't sound like you've gone crazy. It sounds like you're under alot of stress at work, and don't have any resources for venting that stress. It's manifesting itself in your mood swings and your sleepwalking.

If at all possible, take a few days off and treat yourself to something good- a day at the beach, check into the local Hilton for a mini-vacation, anything you can do to change scenery and get a break.

Sleepwalking is really scary! Since you sleep-walked as a child, you probably know the tricks already, but I'm gonna list 'em here just in case!

Before you go to bed, put a good thick rubber band on the doorknob running from the doorknob to the faceplate of the door, OR put a wooden block at the bottom of the door (providing it opens inwards) or put painters tape around the door to seal it- ANYTHING to baffle yourself if you try to get out. Sleepwalkers tend to do what-ever is normal for them, so just locking the door means your asleep mind will simply firgure out how to unlock it.

(I was once found wandering a block from home. Nice officer asked what I was doing outside barefoot and I told him I wanted some pie. Thank heavens my roommate was already looking for me!)

Do a series of yoga or light stretches before bed to relax the body and get your mind in sync. This will help relieve the stress that's causing the sleepwalking.

If you have stairs in your house, block the top of them before you go to bed. A child-gate, or big cardboard box (big enough you won't trip over it) will work very well. I've fallen downstairs in my sleep- kind of a rude awakening.

If you're a 'doer', put tape on the handles of the water faucets and the fridge door, etc.

Like I said, all stuff you probably know, but it's important to keep yourself safe!



Luckily for myself, I am a predictable sleep-walker. Last week I woke up in the bathtub 3 times! There was no water in it, but I'm always dressed. I guess I get up, dress, and then go sit in the bathtub...strange isnt it? I wonder what it means?

River

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Monday, March 6, 2006 3:52 PM

BOOMERANG


sup main's

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Monday, March 6, 2006 6:04 PM

RIVER6213


Life is a kill or be killed environment as you are all so aware of, or so it appears to me. I'm not too crazy about living, but I have made it a point to attack if I feel threatened even in the smallest way, and attack I have. But regardless if I'm successful, or fail, I always leave the table a little bit more empty.

Humans are a strange lot. You get the ones who say they are your friends, and then they screw you over. You get the ones who use you for their own twisted ends, and then they sacifice you. You get the ones who put on a happy face and say that "We are all in this together" and then they stab you in the back, and then you occasionally get the ones who are, and act like wingmen, who really do back you up....this is rare. All of my trusted "wingmen" are dead. I need new ones but I no longer have the ability to see them, or can identify them... all I see is more incoming. How do you spot those special people because I have lost the ability to be able to differentiate between friendlies and the enemy. what I mean by the enemy are people who want to hurt you in some way, or use you for their own ends.
Just a thought from the mind of one who is totally on the edge.

River

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Monday, March 6, 2006 6:32 PM

SAMEERTIA


I have to wonder what it was in life that has given you this violent outlook. Someone must have hurt you terribly.

The best hope I can offer is to say that things can get better.
How do you find the right people? First, figure out what values you want in the people around you.
Make a list.
It might read something like
-honesty
-sense of humor
-doesn't mind if I borrow their coffeepot and don't return it for two weeks
etc.
Then, when you meet people, when you bring them into your life, through work, through boards like these, etc, guage them by that list. Think, hey, Ertia fits five out of the eight things on my list, but she hates jazz, so she's right out.

Sure, might miss out on some great friendships just because of a few things that in the end may not have mattered, but you will manage to surround yourself with like-minded people who you can build a foundation of trust with.


And please, don't belittle yourself just because you're having a rough time right now and seeking professional help. You don't feel well, you want to feel better, and a therapist is someone who you pay to help you feel better.

You are worth love, you are worth happiness. And don't let anybody tell you differently!

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Monday, March 6, 2006 10:52 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by SameErtia:
I have to wonder what it was in life that has given you this violent outlook. Someone must have hurt you terribly.

The best hope I can offer is to say that things can get better.
How do you find the right people? First, figure out what values you want in the people around you.
Make a list.
It might read something like
-honesty
-sense of humor
-doesn't mind if I borrow their coffeepot and don't return it for two weeks
etc.
Then, when you meet people, when you bring them into your life, through work, through boards like these, etc, guage them by that list. Think, hey, Ertia fits five out of the eight things on my list, but she hates jazz, so she's right out.

Sure, might miss out on some great friendships just because of a few things that in the end may not have mattered, but you will manage to surround yourself with like-minded people who you can build a foundation of trust with.


And please, don't belittle yourself just because you're having a rough time right now and seeking professional help. You don't feel well, you want to feel better, and a therapist is someone who you pay to help you feel better.

You are worth love, you are worth happiness. And don't let anybody tell you differently!





My so-called violent outlook is base on my experience. Like many other nice women, my story is about a nice girl, who like so many others, who was defiled in this so-called polite society, by well meaning idiots who passed themselves off as respectable people.

Like an idiot, i fell for it many times until one, dark, spring morning...I woke the frak up. I realized that life equaled loss, and that the only person that was capable of taking care of me was me.
I decided at that moment to create something in my head that would protect me. A machine that delt in pure logic and reason, and it would see me through .

I learned to fight. I learned to not need anyone. I learned on my own to need only me, but the drawback to all of that...was I needed to not need anyone for anything. I created the perfect machine in my head; a machine that would always protect me. In reflection, I think I made a mistake.

Now, in this day and time, I am a slave to the very machine that I created so long ago. 35 years have past, and I am playing out programs after programs. There is no "me" any longer...all there is, is the war against myself, and humainity....a war that must continue, which I now see must be stopped in order for me to live. In a nutshell. The thing I created in my head as a child to protect me is now killing me and my life, and it is out of control. This is what it looks like.

I hope this make sense to you because it really doesnt make sense to me and I am living this pathetic life.

River

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 1:19 AM

ZOID


RiveR6213:

I read the entire thread.

Your initial posts, which you indicated that you wrote while intoxicated, were barely intelligible. You also said you didn't even remember starting them the next day. Loss of memory due to drinking ('blacking out') is a bad thing, if you value your long-term capability to think.

Your subsequent posts -- presumably written while sober, or 'not as drunk' -- were much more readable. Saddening -- to see a fellow human being suffer the way you are -- but much more lucid and exhibiting high vocab and grammar skills.

You shun the notion of hugs or love, but you enjoy exchanging hatred with 'White Supremacists'.

I think you are correct to seek the help of a professional. I also think you are correct to shun the idea of a personal or physical relationship at this point. You already know you have issues that must be dealt with first. That's a good start; now use your strongest characteristic -- your sense of determination -- and follow through.

We love you. Accept that with as much enjoyment as you would the hatred you sometimes seek out. That's one wire you've got to get uncrossed in your head, as soon as possible.



Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all." -Alfred Lord Tennyson

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 8:08 AM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
RiveR6213:

I read the entire thread.

Your initial posts, which you indicated that you wrote while intoxicated, were barely intelligible. You also said you didn't even remember starting them the next day. Loss of memory due to drinking ('blacking out') is a bad thing, if you value your long-term capability to think.

Your subsequent posts -- presumably written while sober, or 'not as drunk' -- were much more readable. Saddening -- to see a fellow human being suffer the way you are -- but much more lucid and exhibiting high vocab and grammar skills.

You shun the notion of hugs or love, but you enjoy exchanging hatred with 'White Supremacists'.

I think you are correct to seek the help of a professional. I also think you are correct to shun the idea of a personal or physical relationship at this point. You already know you have issues that must be dealt with first. That's a good start; now use your strongest characteristic -- your sense of determination -- and follow through.

We love you. Accept that with as much enjoyment as you would the hatred you sometimes seek out. That's one wire you've got to get uncrossed in your head, as soon as possible.



Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all." -Alfred Lord Tennyson




Hate is a predictable emotion. When someone is behaving in a hateful manner towards me, it is easy to deal with...matter of fact I suddenly understand my place in the universe, I am empowered, and I attack or defend accordingly. Hate is so predictable and it is real. It is something that is SO completely understood by me. Hate is easy. Hate is what has kept me alive for so many years. Hate is the other “White Meat” Hate: It’s what’s for Dinner.

Love on the other hand is an unknown to me, but I do know one thing. Love frightens me. Love wipes out all my defenses in one shot. When someone says "I love you" to me, all I want to do is get away from them. All I want to do is run, and run fast. I need to get as far away from that person, or that community as possible. They are dangerous to me, they can hurt me, and they will if I hang around to see what happens next.

It’s been my experience that love has brought forth more pain and misery to my life than any other emotion, therefore, love is lacking…love does not work for me. Love is a trick, love is a cheat to get me to lower my defenses, so the enemy can attack, which they almost always do, and I have no defense for this…none at all, so I run.

People are experts when it comes to hurting each other. They say that Man’s not perfect, but I say man is perfect at one thing, and that’s making each other miserable. In this I say man is an expert, he is elite at this, which he has demonstrated throughout history time and time again without fail.

Anyway, I didn’t mean to rant like that. There was a point to be made in here somewhere, but I think I lost it.

River

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 8:40 AM

MAL4PREZ


Hey River -

As a similarly overly smart overly driven independent type woman, I'm telling you that a lot of what you say is familar.

There's no shame in going to a therapist. It can save your life, at least make it worth living.

Actually, when you think about it, anybody who's ANYBODY has a therapist. It's the thing to do. Especially for overachievers. It'll make you cooler. You can go to cocktail parties and share therapist stories, make friend in an instant. (I know it's hard to tell on the internet, so I should clarify - I'm only kidding about 25% and the rest is serious. Really!)

Go, make an appoinment. Now!

Lots of love (seriously!)
m4p


Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 8:59 AM

SINGATE


Quote:




Hate is a predictable emotion. When someone is behaving in a hateful manner towards me, it is easy to deal with...matter of fact I suddenly understand my place in the universe, I am empowered, and I attack or defend accordingly. Hate is so predictable and it is real. It is something that is SO completely understood by me. Hate is easy. Hate is what has kept me alive for so many years. Hate is the other “White Meat” Hate: It’s what’s for Dinner.

Love on the other hand is an unknown to me, but I do know one thing. Love frightens me. Love wipes out all my defenses in one shot. When someone says "I love you" to me, all I want to do is get away from them. All I want to do is run, and run fast. I need to get as far away from that person, or that community as possible. They are dangerous to me, they can hurt me, and they will if I hang around to see what happens next.

It’s been my experience that love has brought forth more pain and misery to my life than any other emotion, therefore, love is lacking…love does not work for me. Love is a trick, love is a cheat to get me to lower my defenses, so the enemy can attack, which they almost always do, and I have no defense for this…none at all, so I run.

People are experts when it comes to hurting each other. They say that Man’s not perfect, but I say man is perfect at one thing, and that’s making each other miserable. In this I say man is an expert, he is elite at this, which he has demonstrated throughout history time and time again without fail.

Anyway, I didn’t mean to rant like that. There was a point to be made in here somewhere, but I think I lost it.

River



Now you're speaking my language. I am feel compelled to repeat myself: there is nothing wrong with you. The emotions you are feeling are completely natural. Based on the sum of your life experiences how else were you supposed to respond?

The only thing I would disagree with is the statement that you created a machine. This makes it seem like you introduced something artificial into yourself. There couldn't be anything further from the truth. What you have there has been there all along, you just were not paying any attention to it.

Save your money on therapy. The only thing those guys are good for is getting you hooked on so called mood elevators. Then again, you might find a shrink who will analyze you for thirty years and still not solve your "problem".

The best advice I can give is to quit fighting your nature. This is causing you a great deal of stress and is truly self-destructive. The thoughts you have are not hurting anyone, in fact they are probably a good way for you to relieve pressure.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 12:25 PM

ZOID


RiveR6213 wrote, variously:
Quote:

Hate is a predictable emotion...

Yes, hatred is always predictable. It stems from alienation, and its goal is to spread alienation to everyone it touches. Loneliness, paranoia and unhappiness are the only fruits it yields.

You seem to be unhappy -- or 'dissatisfied', if you'd prefer -- with the way your life is heading. The only way your life will change is if you make a conscious decision to take control of your life, and to change your way of thinking. What you're doing now -- clinging to hate and despair like a life raft -- is not working for you; time to do something radically different.

Love involves a lot more risk than hatred. That is also true. But no one ever became successful at anything without taking some risks. Therefore, since you are a successful business woman, I am certain you are familiar with -- and comfortable with -- taking risks that many people would blanch at.

You might say, 'But love is a different type of risk, one that does not yield to reasonable cost-benefit analysis'. (Not to put words in your mouth.) That's absolutely correct. Love is the biggest crap shoot there ever was, precisely because it's entirely to do with emotions, not logical analysis.

But, the same techniques you use to limit risks in business or any other aspect of your life, also apply to love. As in business, retain your own identity. Do not get swallowed and digested into a larger entity; give that same freedom to those who love you. Require it of them. Too many times, two individual people become 'a couple' and lose themselves in the process.

I truly loved Firefly -- in a strictly platonic way -- mostly because of Wash and Zoe's marriage. They were intensely individualistic, in many ways opposite personalities. They both had to give up things that were important to them: Zoe, a child; Wash, being alone with Zoe, for example. But they did so, willingly, out of love for one another, a desire to make the partnership work. (Please note that it didn't mean they didn't still hotly debate these and other issues, all the time.)

That's why I loved their relationship. It's true-to-life. In a healthy relationship, partners don't walk around joined at the forehead; there is push-and-pull, give and take, and two distinct people with their own boundaries can be readily identified.

I must point out though: Romantic love is only one of the many forms of love. The love I feel for my wife is of a significantly different 'flavor' than the love than I feel for my children; than the love I feel for my brother, mother and father (may he rest in peace); and those are different than the love I feel for my fellow human beings. Can it be confusing? Yes. Could I get hurt? Yes.

Would I trade the loving experiences in my life -- even the ones that ended badly -- for all the gold in the world? Not a chance in hell. No other memory in my life is as precious to me as seeing my son and daughter borne into this world by the woman I love, the direct product of our love for one another.

And the bad experiences in my life -- even the horrific ones that no human being should ever have to experience -- have made me the person I am today. I am happy to be that person, and I would not trade places with anyone else, even though I carry painful and shameful memories of my own weakness and stupidity and self-importance, too.

My questions for you:
"What good is all your success if you can't enjoy it, if it makes you so unstable that you terrify yourself?"

"Why do you fear losing your identity and discernment if you allow love -- love of one person, or love of everything in the universe -- into your heart? Indeed, why do you fear anything at all?"

Fear says, "I'm different. People will notice that, and despise me. I'll hate them and distrust them for despising me." Hatred is a reaction to one's own fear, to one's own feelings of inadequacy. It says, "Other people are better than me. They can take away the things that I need, and supplant me in the world. I will kill the Other if it tries to take what I have."

If you can become 'centered' in your little slice of reality -- really see your place in the world, instead of the illusory notion that the universe is centered in you -- you will see there is nothing to fear, and hatred will vanish like a fetid mist. You will look away from hatred, because only those who are blindly cowering in the darkness of their own fear cling to hatred as though it were a warm blanket. Hatred is a poison of the mind and soul.



Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
I was an alcohol abuser. Shame and rationalization are tough nuts to crack; they don't fight fair. Since I've quit abusing, I can accept myself, faults and all, and have regained my sense of self-worth.
_________________________________________________

"You are sufficient for the world from the day you are born, and it for you." -anonymous

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 12:41 PM

CARTOON


Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Love on the other hand is an unknown to me, but I do know one thing. Love frightens me. Love wipes out all my defenses in one shot. When someone says "I love you" to me, all I want to do is get away from them. All I want to do is run, and run fast. I need to get as far away from that person, or that community as possible. They are dangerous to me, they can hurt me, and they will if I hang around to see what happens next.




Anyone can say that they "love" someone. Love isn't a word. It's also not a feeling -- emotional (affection) or sexual (lust). It's not a higher form of "liking" someone (enjoyment). It's an action. It's putting someone else before yourself, regardless of who they are, what they do, or how you may benefit from it. One doesn't "fall into" love -- one chooses either to love or not to love. One loves by their actions.

When it comes to "love", words mean nothing. Actions speak louder than words. If someone does what's in your best interest, regardless of the cost to themselves -- *with no hope of ever benefiting from their action on your behalf, then they love you.

(*Unfortunately, people's motives aren't painted on their faces for the world to see, and people can treat you like they love you because they're looking at subsequently getting something from you.)

Be wary of people who say they love you. Be wary of people who act like they love you because there may be something in it for them down the road.

If someone loves you, they won't have to tell you that they love you for you to know it.

Oh. And by the way, if you find it, be sure not to let it get away. (That should go without saying, but I had some room left over, so I decided to tack it on.)

Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Anyway, I didn’t mean to rant like that. There was a point to be made in here somewhere, but I think I lost it.


Don't fret. That's what forums are for.

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 1:20 PM

CITIZEN


River:
Erm, hmm, not sure how too put it, got things to say, not many words too say them.

I see you doubting your humanity is that right? If so I wouldn't, you had some kind words for me in that post, and after, as you say, I made you cry, so that should say volumes for your true nature, nes pas?

If you're worried about things, if you're apprehensive about your life or whatever I'd suggest talking to someone. Often that's a therapist because we all like to hide things from those closest to us, but it needn't be. Anyone whom you can rant and rave at, if necessary, who will not hold that against you is fine. Doing it on line can help, but it's no substitute due to the impersonal nature of the web. Talking face to face with someone can be therapeutic, a great help. Not necessarily drugs or a life time of exposing your 'inner child', just griping about that twat that cut you up at the junction or whatever can help a lot.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
You should never give powers to a leader you like that you’d hate to have given to a leader you fear

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 2:15 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Hey River,

I guess most people get there emotional stability from their families - it's an easy and natural way for human beings to live out their need to love and be loved.

It occured to me reading zoid's post, and then his little anonymous quote at the bottom; "You are sufficient for the world from the day you are born, and it for you." that some people through unfortunate circumstances are deprived of the kind of things (like family) that make life 'sufficient' for us. Most of us get our security from our family - a sense of identity and a guarantee of unconditional love when the rest of the world screws us over. It also teaches us to go out into the rest of the world and learn to love other people without fear.

I think that a lot of your problems stem from the absence of this in your childhood. I don't know what happened to you 6 years ago (and unfortunately yes, some people in this world can be really good at inflicting misery on others) but I think you are suffering now for not having the safety net of a loving family back then, to help you keep faith in love and humanity. Maybe i'm reading too much into things, i don't know.

Anyway, I think you need love and companionship in your life - as far as I'm aware we're all made for it, and women more than men.

From what you've described of your life this may not be easy - you probably have a reputation for being a bitch amongst the people at work whom you have most human interaction with, which will be akward to get over. Plus you have a self confessed lack of social skills (me too, btw) which will make acquiring friends difficult. Maybe you could do ok in the dating scene, but I dunno. You'd need to acquire a sex drive I think.

So, considering all this I came to one final idea about what you should do, and that is adopt a child. Do you like children? I worry for the child a little bit, but you say you're a 'nice' person so I don't see why there wouldn't be a mother in you. You might just find that the child would open up a part of you and make you feel (more?) complete. All children are selfish, which I know you hate, but you can be sure they're not wolves in sheep's clothing. And you could certainly give the little guy a good home.

What do you think? If you aren't sure you're ready for a child you could start with a dog or something. Do you like dogs? Everyone likes dogs I know it's a cliche; the cute little puppy dog melting the heart of the cold ice woman who doesn't know how to love, but I don't know, it could work.

I guess till now I have been a bit negative disagreeing with Zoid's optimistic quote and generally ruling you out of a lot of the warmth of human interaction that most of the rest of us enjoy. But I do think you have the potential for all that stuff - Your strong willed and smart and funny and I've enjoyed interacting with you on these message boards as have many others i believe.

So, down the road (unless Hollywood has lied to me), you could find that your relationship with the baby/pet has opened your heart up to other aspects of human love such as friendship and romance.

Anyway I better end here. I hope I've been of help, but I realise my advice is based quite a lot on assumptions about your life so it may be quite daft in which case laugh at it and disregard.

Either way good luck working your life out River

kpo

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 5:07 PM

DC4BS



Hi River6213,

To steal a few phrases from a great writer we all know cause he said it better in just a few words than I ever could no matter how many of my own words I might use.


I'm only gonna say this once.
You're on our crew.
Why are we still talkin' bout this?

------------------------------------------
dc4bs

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 6:32 PM

SPACEMANSPIFF


River6213,

You mention in your first post that you are good at science...are you a scientist? I am, an astronomer, and I know first hand that working in a laboratory or academic atmosphere is not the best place for human contact.

Regardless, I'm sorry you feel bad. I do think that talking to someone, anyone you can trust, is a good idea. Odd as it may seem, you can trust therapists, as they are paid to listen, and can't divulge anything you say to others. Also, people you will probably never meet (like us) work too...anonymity can be liberating.

Good luck. And remember that almost everyone here can probably relate to you in some way.

Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 8:26 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Hey River -

As a similarly overly smart overly driven independent type woman, I'm telling you that a lot of what you say is familar.

There's no shame in going to a therapist. It can save your life, at least make it worth living.

Actually, when you think about it, anybody who's ANYBODY has a therapist. It's the thing to do. Especially for overachievers. It'll make you cooler. You can go to cocktail parties and share therapist stories, make friend in an instant. (I know it's hard to tell on the internet, so I should clarify - I'm only kidding about 25% and the rest is serious. Really!)

Go, make an appoinment. Now!

Lots of love (seriously!)
m4p


Ask Dr. Science ... he knows more than you do.
"I have a Master's degree ... in science!"



I just woke up! I must have been tired!
I took the day off of work and spent all day going through the yellow pages in search of a therapist. Personally, I think I need a full blown psychiatrist, but I figured I would start small and work my way up.
I feel no shame in this. If I have a problem and I do suspect that I have, maybe its time to move this conversation out of the forum and into the hands of someone who is practiced at listening to idiots who are on their way out, and have a little money to throw about.

Personally, I think that I actually hate myself. I was programmed to hate myself. From the age on 1 I was told that I would fail in life and I would be this awful person, but look what happened! I succeeded in a way that no one expected. Now my family, who I disowned, is now coming to ME for advice! I want to have nothing to do with that, or them, and they don’t seem to understand why. They keep giving me this noise about how we are a family and how we should stick together!!???? What is that all about? I don’t need them…I don’t need anyone. THEY taught me that, and now that I’m a success, SUDDENLY we are all family? Frak them! Call me cold-blooded, call me selfish, call me a person with a chip on my shoulders, call me anything you want, but what the hell am I supposed to do?

Put yourself in my place. All your life people disrespect you, call you names, laugh at you and your ideas, and put you down at all times. All your plans are laughed at, all your dreams are crushed by these people, and then one day you are successful, and then all of a sudden they are all over you saying YOU are family, and how much they love you??? Give me a break!!! When I was a so-called loser all they did was put me down, and now that I’m doing great financially, suddenly I’m the star-child of life? Are humans that simple?

The only time my so-called family contacts me is for money. That’s’ the only time I ever hear from them, therefore I decided last year to totally disown these people. From this point on I consider myself an orphan. Call me selfish. I know I’m gonna go to hell for this, but its not fair…all I’ve ever wanted was to to belong somewhere...is this wrong??? Maybe its okay for other people, but it seems that the universe doesn’t want me to have an easy time here on earth….

River


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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 8:37 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by singate:
Quote:




Hate is a predictable emotion. When someone is behaving in a hateful manner towards me, it is easy to deal with...matter of fact I suddenly understand my place in the universe, I am empowered, and I attack or defend accordingly. Hate is so predictable and it is real. It is something that is SO completely understood by me. Hate is easy. Hate is what has kept me alive for so many years. Hate is the other “White Meat” Hate: It’s what’s for Dinner.

Love on the other hand is an unknown to me, but I do know one thing. Love frightens me. Love wipes out all my defenses in one shot. When someone says "I love you" to me, all I want to do is get away from them. All I want to do is run, and run fast. I need to get as far away from that person, or that community as possible. They are dangerous to me, they can hurt me, and they will if I hang around to see what happens next.

It’s been my experience that love has brought forth more pain and misery to my life than any other emotion, therefore, love is lacking…love does not work for me. Love is a trick, love is a cheat to get me to lower my defenses, so the enemy can attack, which they almost always do, and I have no defense for this…none at all, so I run.

People are experts when it comes to hurting each other. They say that Man’s not perfect, but I say man is perfect at one thing, and that’s making each other miserable. In this I say man is an expert, he is elite at this, which he has demonstrated throughout history time and time again without fail.

Anyway, I didn’t mean to rant like that. There was a point to be made in here somewhere, but I think I lost it.

River



Now you're speaking my language. I am feel compelled to repeat myself: there is nothing wrong with you. The emotions you are feeling are completely natural. Based on the sum of your life experiences how else were you supposed to respond?

The only thing I would disagree with is the statement that you created a machine. This makes it seem like you introduced something artificial into yourself. There couldn't be anything further from the truth. What you have there has been there all along, you just were not paying any attention to it.

Save your money on therapy. The only thing those guys are good for is getting you hooked on so called mood elevators. Then again, you might find a shrink who will analyze you for thirty years and still not solve your "problem".

The best advice I can give is to quit fighting your nature. This is causing you a great deal of stress and is truly self-destructive. The thoughts you have are not hurting anyone, in fact they are probably a good way for you to relieve pressure.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.




Good advice, but I NEED to talk to someone. its important at this weird crossroads in my life. If I don't manange to talk about my demons I'm going to do something foolhardy like put a gun to my head and kill myself, and that would be a shame because I suspect that underneath all this garbage I call myself, is a nice girl who might have a measure of love in her...I want to save that girl.... its important. In order for me to survive, she has to live.

River

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 8:47 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
RiveR6213 wrote, variously:
Quote:

Hate is a predictable emotion...

Yes, hatred is always predictable. It stems from alienation, and its goal is to spread alienation to everyone it touches. Loneliness, paranoia and unhappiness are the only fruits it yields.

You seem to be unhappy -- or 'dissatisfied', if you'd prefer -- with the way your life is heading. The only way your life will change is if you make a conscious decision to take control of your life, and to change your way of thinking. What you're doing now -- clinging to hate and despair like a life raft -- is not working for you; time to do something radically different.

Love involves a lot more risk than hatred. That is also true. But no one ever became successful at anything without taking some risks. Therefore, since you are a successful business woman, I am certain you are familiar with -- and comfortable with -- taking risks that many people would blanch at.

You might say, 'But love is a different type of risk, one that does not yield to reasonable cost-benefit analysis'. (Not to put words in your mouth.) That's absolutely correct. Love is the biggest crap shoot there ever was, precisely because it's entirely to do with emotions, not logical analysis.

But, the same techniques you use to limit risks in business or any other aspect of your life, also apply to love. As in business, retain your own identity. Do not get swallowed and digested into a larger entity; give that same freedom to those who love you. Require it of them. Too many times, two individual people become 'a couple' and lose themselves in the process.

I truly loved Firefly -- in a strictly platonic way -- mostly because of Wash and Zoe's marriage. They were intensely individualistic, in many ways opposite personalities. They both had to give up things that were important to them: Zoe, a child; Wash, being alone with Zoe, for example. But they did so, willingly, out of love for one another, a desire to make the partnership work. (Please note that it didn't mean they didn't still hotly debate these and other issues, all the time.)

That's why I loved their relationship. It's true-to-life. In a healthy relationship, partners don't walk around joined at the forehead; there is push-and-pull, give and take, and two distinct people with their own boundaries can be readily identified.

I must point out though: Romantic love is only one of the many forms of love. The love I feel for my wife is of a significantly different 'flavor' than the love than I feel for my children; than the love I feel for my brother, mother and father (may he rest in peace); and those are different than the love I feel for my fellow human beings. Can it be confusing? Yes. Could I get hurt? Yes.

Would I trade the loving experiences in my life -- even the ones that ended badly -- for all the gold in the world? Not a chance in hell. No other memory in my life is as precious to me as seeing my son and daughter borne into this world by the woman I love, the direct product of our love for one another.

And the bad experiences in my life -- even the horrific ones that no human being should ever have to experience -- have made me the person I am today. I am happy to be that person, and I would not trade places with anyone else, even though I carry painful and shameful memories of my own weakness and stupidity and self-importance, too.

My questions for you:
"What good is all your success if you can't enjoy it, if it makes you so unstable that you terrify yourself?"

"Why do you fear losing your identity and discernment if you allow love -- love of one person, or love of everything in the universe -- into your heart? Indeed, why do you fear anything at all?"

Fear says, "I'm different. People will notice that, and despise me. I'll hate them and distrust them for despising me." Hatred is a reaction to one's own fear, to one's own feelings of inadequacy. It says, "Other people are better than me. They can take away the things that I need, and supplant me in the world. I will kill the Other if it tries to take what I have."

If you can become 'centered' in your little slice of reality -- really see your place in the world, instead of the illusory notion that the universe is centered in you -- you will see there is nothing to fear, and hatred will vanish like a fetid mist. You will look away from hatred, because only those who are blindly cowering in the darkness of their own fear cling to hatred as though it were a warm blanket. Hatred is a poison of the mind and soul.



Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
I was an alcohol abuser. Shame and rationalization are tough nuts to crack; they don't fight fair. Since I've quit abusing, I can accept myself, faults and all, and have regained my sense of self-worth.
_________________________________________________

"You are sufficient for the world from the day you are born, and it for you." -anonymous





That was such a lovely post and it was for me! Thank you!

I've been abusing drink big time for the past 6 months... more than I have in the past and it isnt making things better...matter of fact, it makes things rather foggy, which means its another thing in my life that have to go.

Thanks for giving me a moment of your time and letting me cry on your cyber-shoulder...all of you. You don't know what this means to me. Thanks for being here for me and you fine people don't even know me. You have done for me in short order what my own family could never have done for me.

At this point in time, I am broken, or at least feel broken, and I need to be fixed.

River

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 9:02 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by cartoon:
Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Love on the other hand is an unknown to me, but I do know one thing. Love frightens me. Love wipes out all my defenses in one shot. When someone says "I love you" to me, all I want to do is get away from them. All I want to do is run, and run fast. I need to get as far away from that person, or that community as possible. They are dangerous to me, they can hurt me, and they will if I hang around to see what happens next.




Anyone can say that they "love" someone. Love isn't a word. It's also not a feeling -- emotional (affection) or sexual (lust). It's not a higher form of "liking" someone (enjoyment). It's an action. It's putting someone else before yourself, regardless of who they are, what they do, or how you may benefit from it. One doesn't "fall into" love -- one chooses either to love or not to love. One loves by their actions.

When it comes to "love", words mean nothing. Actions speak louder than words. If someone does what's in your best interest, regardless of the cost to themselves -- *with no hope of ever benefiting from their action on your behalf, then they love you.

(*Unfortunately, people's motives aren't painted on their faces for the world to see, and people can treat you like they love you because they're looking at subsequently getting something from you.)

Be wary of people who say they love you. Be wary of people who act like they love you because there may be something in it for them down the road.

If someone loves you, they won't have to tell you that they love you for you to know it.

Oh. And by the way, if you find it, be sure not to let it get away. (That should go without saying, but I had some room left over, so I decided to tack it on.)

Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Anyway, I didn’t mean to rant like that. There was a point to be made in here somewhere, but I think I lost it.


Don't fret. That's what forums are for.




Cartoon,

The concept of love is beyond me and I was one of those people who thought she was in "love" many times in the past. Six years ago the ultimate "Pearl Harbor" happened to me. It was simply too much, and now I seriously don't know what love is, or what it even means.

Move about with shields on high is what I do. Move cautiously, and move with a "weapons free" state of mind, and attack quickly anyone who seems a threat. Total paranoia if you ask me. This is no way to live.

I jettisoned all my friends long ago...I am alone and it’s my fault, but it was the only way...the only way too be safe so I thought, and now I am seeing the grim side to isolation.

Life is war, and this is a kill or is killed environment called the Earth-That-Was, but I know, deep down inside, I was not meant to be such a person. I am a ruined soul trying to come to terms with the fact that she is the Anti-Christ (just kidding) but it feels like that.

River

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Tuesday, March 7, 2006 9:02 PM

AZTECHROME


River, I think that maybe the emotions that go through our minds are emerging from your fingertips. We're all misfits in some way here, i think; that's why the 'verse has brought us all together.

Look, I'll admit it. I've got PAD. That means i get panic attacks. I also worry about getting attacks, adn then that causes them. Nasty little viscous cycle. You wouldn't know it by looking at me. Im not even 25. I'm 6'2, and work out often. Im involved in alot of activites, studies, compositions &c. I'm totally insane though. I don't know if you know this, but nobody cares if you're insane as long as you pay your taxes.

I still wake up in the middle of the night, unable to sleep again, writing down crazy things in my screenplay journals. I write strange emails to friends. And yes, i even post midnight ramblings to forums.

I'm there too kid. I'm glad and flattered that you wrote this down; it tells me that I'm not alone and neither are you.

And if it ever comes out that we had this talk... tell them i was talking to you about... guns. yeah. something manly.

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