GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Ya' Know what Firefly was missing?....

POSTED BY: GRAYFURY
UPDATED: Thursday, December 1, 2005 14:01
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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 11:15 AM

GRAYFURY


Now before you all jump down my gullet. I know the show was perfection. But I would have liked to have seen a dog. Not one of those, look at you sideways at a funny time in the script dogs... and especially not one of those "go get help!" major character in the family dogs. Just an old mongrel ambling about the ship, thought of fondly by everyone. ....NOW you purists can jump down my gullet!

"Dear God In Heaven!" - Plastic Dinosaur

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 11:21 AM

CAPTAINSHINY


I was gonna say more episodes and a good network, but i suppose dogs would be a good answer, too. Did they even bring dogs to the new planets? All those people would take up a hell of a lot of room, and they might have left behind any unnecessary animals. They'd need horses to make glue, cattle for eating.

"That's why I never kiss 'em on the mouth."

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 11:26 AM

GRAYFURY


I was thinking there could be a sentamental attachment to the animal... Like the found it during the war.

"Dear God In Heaven!" - Plastic Dinosaur

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 11:59 AM

FREMDFIRMA


I'd mentioned something similar, a long time ago, except not a dog.

It's been traditional for untold years for sailing vessels to have the ships' cat, and I am fairly sure said tradition would continue in space.

Kaylee strikes me as the type who would adopt some forlorn stray and make it the ships' cat, too.

Just imagine all the little visual moments possible, too.

Simon "Down, down!, off the counter, please!"
River "But she likes it up there.."

Or Jayne trying to mess with it, only to get totally chumped by it.

Mal fussing about it being on his ship, and then petting it when no one's looking..

Serenity definately could use a cat, yeah.

-Frem


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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:16 PM

DARKJESTER


Don't you remember? They had dogs in the pilot episode. Juicy dogs, cooking on a grate. "Good Dogs".

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:21 PM

CAUSAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
It's been traditional for untold years for sailing vessels to have the ships' cat, and I am fairly sure said tradition would continue in space...Just imagine all the little visual moments possible, too...Mal fussing about it being on his ship, and then petting it when no one's looking..



Now that's a great idea. Seriously, would bring some more of the lived-in feel to Serenity a la Jonesy, Nostromo's cat in Alien.

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:06 PM

SERYN


they were considering beagle smuggling.

can you imagine it? one of the chores played for in that card game would be 'poopa-scooping'

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:11 PM

BLINKER


What, no llama?

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:17 PM

CAUSAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Blinker:
What, no llama?



Gah! Llamas!!

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I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:28 PM

SUICIDALDUCKLING


You can't stop the llamas!!!

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:28 PM

PSYCHICRIVER


Quote:

Originally posted by GrayFury:
Just an old mongrel ambling about the ship, thought of fondly by everyone. ....NOW you purists can jump down my gullet!

But then what would Jayne's purpose be?

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."
"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 2:01 PM

CAUSAL


Quote:

Originally posted by PsychicRiver:
Quote:

Originally posted by GrayFury:
Just an old mongrel ambling about the ship, thought of fondly by everyone. ....NOW you purists can jump down my gullet!

But then what would Jayne's purpose be?



BWAHAHAHAHA!!

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I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 2:14 PM

SAMEERTIA


Uh, guys?
You do realize that in this 'verse, dogs are FOOD!
In the opening shot of the docks at Persephone, that's what they're grilling!
You think Wash was kidding when he suggested next time they move livestock it should be beagles?

Seriously, Mal probably had a dog in the beginning... a big, mangy German Shepherd most likely, and the first time a job went sour and there wasn't food to put on the table, Zoe & Bester butchered and ATE the thing.


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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 2:17 PM

CAUSAL


Quote:

Originally posted by SameErtia:
Uh, guys?
You do realize that in this 'verse, dogs are FOOD!
In the opening shot of the docks at Persephone, that's what they're grilling!
You think Wash was kidding when he suggested next time they move livestock it should be beagles?

Seriously, Mal probably had a dog in the beginning... a big, mangy German Shepherd most likely, and the first time a job went sour and there wasn't food to put on the table, Zoe & Bester butchered and ATE the thing.



Seriously. That's awful.

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 2:33 PM

SAMEERTIA


You're right.
Awful. A german shepherd would be much too messy to butcher. you'd never be able to keep all that hair out of the meat. Probably was a labrador retriever....

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 2:40 PM

ANO2


I always thoguht of River as sort of the pet. Given the way most of the crew treat her likes shes sub-human...

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 3:10 PM

CITIZEN


Yeah, Dog meats not too tasty, but you can always add spices, but given the choice I prefer Cat.

I prefer Dogs (as pets, not a food source), but a Cat would suit the ship and crew quite well I think.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
Remember, the ice caps aren't melting, the water is being liberated.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 3:52 PM

TRAINEEALTERNATE


I don't personally like the idea of the cat...
It might draw away from the characters a little too much- Not much, but just enough to seem cliche-ish. I have nothing against cats, but putting one on Serenity as a 'crew member' seems a little far. Unless it was extreme background, and maybe was unintentionally anonymous, I would have to say no on the cat idea.

Sooner or later, a cat-centered episode would come along, and the main characters would probably end up playing themselves. While it would still focus on the different personalities of the crew, they would be static compared to a cat-storyline.
That is, unless it can be pulled off like "Objects In Space," like Whedon did, showing a lot of it from River's wierd psychic perspective, as well as the 'ship's'. The great differences between the characters' speech and their thoughts was what made that particular episode good, while much of it was shown from the perspective of a rarely explored character.

Jayne's Words of Wisdom:
"That's why I never kiss them on the mouth."
"When do I get to get sexed up?!"
"This is my most favorite-est gun..."

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 3:58 PM

FOLLOWMAL




I agree, a ship's cat would be perfect.

Cats are independent, I can see Mal allowing an independent critter onboard.... a dog, not so much.


"I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle." Mal

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:14 PM

BASSGRAVI


I imagine the dog/cat/gerbil/hamster or any other kind of pet theory would get debunked because, well, it would be harder to care for a pet when you don't know the next time you're getting paid, how would you afford/find food for it? Or vets? Animals/pets require more care than people do, I don't think they'd be good in space. Also, there's the issue with keeping it on the ship, who would clean up after it, what would you do with aforementioned stuff-you-have-to-clean-up, how do you keep it out of the engine room (moving parts + pets = mangled pet), and how would a pet fare (sp?) (health-wise) in space? The cows did okay, but they were only there for a while, and they atrophied. And what if it managed to get stuck or hidden away in one of those "troublesome little nooks" and starved to death? After all, in Out of Gas Zoe saw what was probably left of the *last* pet on Serenity...(oh..sorry, that was cruel)
Not that I'm against pets; I love pets, I've had three cats and four dogs and right now since I'm in college I'm content with a fish, but I just think it would've been too...awkward...to have a pet on board...
Besides, I think Serenity sort of *is* the pet; everyone loves that ship.
Besides, maybe Joss, the crew, et al just didn't feel like dealing with an extra cast member that requires food, water, and the animal protection peeps.
www.angelfire.com/realm2/bassgravi

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:25 PM

KHYRON


You guys and gals are obviously missing the most important aspect of what makes people tune in every week these days (it's not dogs or cats or goldfish).

Here's my plan on how to make Firefly more popular: you start off with a crew of 16, then after every episode one member of the crew gets voted out (either the audience votes or the members of the crew cast secret votes).

The winner gets to keep Serenity and Jayne's hat.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:04 PM

CAUSAL


Quote:

Originally posted by SameErtia:
You're right.
Awful. A german shepherd would be much too messy to butcher. you'd never be able to keep all that hair out of the meat. Probably was a labrador retriever....



HA!

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:51 PM

CAIUS


Quote:

Originally posted by bassgravi:
I imagine the dog/cat/gerbil/hamster or any other kind of pet theory would get debunked because, well, it would be harder to care for a pet when you don't know the next time you're getting paid, how would you afford/find food for it? Or vets? Animals/pets require more care than people do, I don't think they'd be good in space.
www.angelfire.com/realm2/bassgravi



The reason that the ship's cat is a naval tradition is straightforward. Cat's eat rodents. And unless you vent the entire ship to vacuum, you WILL pick up mice.

-Caius

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 8:15 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD


I don't think animals can survive for too long in a space ship. Animals need room to roam around, they need to see the sky, they need to see nature or they'll die. Plus animals don't have the same sense of time as humans, animals who aren't used to a place without a day and night cycle cannot live in such an environment.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 8:26 PM

WORKEROFEVIL


I'm not big on the idea of a pet for the Serenity crew, because it seems like unneccesary added sentimentality. However, if a pet was added it should be a dog and not a cat. This is because dogs are far superior to cats. For example (as my family discussed at Thanksgiving), if a person lives alone with a pet ot pets and dies, the result is different if they had a dog or a cat. Cats will start eating the dead body after a relatively short while. Dogs will often starve to death and leave the body untouched. Or else, wait until they are literally starving. Dogs are much more loyal. They're part of a pack, a collective, a family. They fit better with the crew. A cat could work for Jayne, not the rest.

River: Now we have to be married. I'm in the family way.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 9:09 PM

URSULA


But . . . I thought they had space monkeys on board!


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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 11:22 PM

ETHAN


Prairie dogs would do quite well in the floor grating of the main holding bay. They'd be able to post watchful eyes for Jayne topside and then pop right under the floor lickety-split!

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Wednesday, November 30, 2005 3:57 AM

PHILYBURKHILL


They have one on Bebop, which a lot of people think Firefly borrowed a bit from. If there was a dog on Firefly then it would give a bit more ammo :o would still be cool like.

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Wednesday, November 30, 2005 4:42 AM

SCOUSERATHEART


Food is hard to come by in the verse, folks. Having a pet on board that serves no purpose (other than to be a pet) would use up food. Mal would not allow it.

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Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:23 AM

GUNRUNNER


Quote:

Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
I don't think animals can survive for too long in a space ship. Animals need room to roam around, they need to see the sky, they need to see nature or they'll die. Plus animals don't have the same sense of time as humans, animals who aren't used to a place without a day and night cycle cannot live in such an environment.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

Submariners have had pets for a long time. USS Holland has a mascot dog (that nearly got shot out a torpedo tube once, but that’s another story), as did some boats in WWII. Another boat had a mascot skunk that a crewmember won in a card game. On a sub its constantly “daytime” except in sleeping areas, at least on Serenity there is a day-night cycle of some sort as seen in Objects in Space. Heck on the old 'smokeboats' its been said the roaches were part of the crew, Serenity's got a few (as seen in OIS) so maybe they could have a mascot roach?

EV Nova Firefly mod Message Board:
http://s4.invisionfree.com/GunRunner/index.php?act=idx

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Wednesday, November 30, 2005 6:43 AM

SAMEERTIA


Well, if we entirely ignore the fact that in the Firefly verse, animals are food...
( "If wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak." Jayne)

Then I would tend to agree with the idea that animals wouldn't do well in space. In "Safe" River comments that the cows weren't cows inside the ship, that they forgot who they were. It wasn't until they saw the sky that they remembered.

Now, cows, admittedly, are stupid animals. But honestly, how would a dog or cat react the first time the gravity unit shut down?
And do you REALLY think Simon is going to catheterize a cat with a UTI? Well, okay, if Kaylee and River were crying crocodile tears at him, he probably would....

But I think the place of animals in Firefly verse was well established in the series.

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Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:54 PM

GIXXER


In Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, the only bit of audience reaction was when Filch danced with Mrs Norris.

That got an "Awwwwww" (And from a British audience too. Disgraceful show of emotion.)

Did it myself too, and don't mind admittin' to it. (Because it was dark.)

I'd have to say our cats wouldn't be suitable for a spaceship. Not enough room in the hold for the daily medication for the cute one or the food for the runty one, who isn't any more, being as she's been making up for it ever since finding out I'm a pushover...

G


If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around.

Will Rogers.

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Thursday, December 1, 2005 12:18 AM

FRAY101


Thinking about it, there's a distinct lack of pets all through the Whedonverse. The only one that springs to mind is Miss Kitty Fantastico - and that didn't end well.

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Thursday, December 1, 2005 12:44 AM

GIANTEVILHEAD


Quote:

Originally posted by GunRunner:
Submariners have had pets for a long time. USS Holland has a mascot dog (that nearly got shot out a torpedo tube once, but that’s another story), as did some boats in WWII. Another boat had a mascot skunk that a crewmember won in a card game. On a sub its constantly “daytime” except in sleeping areas, at least on Serenity there is a day-night cycle of some sort as seen in Objects in Space. Heck on the old 'smokeboats' its been said the roaches were part of the crew, Serenity's got a few (as seen in OIS) so maybe they could have a mascot roach?


Did those animals live full, healthy lives?

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Thursday, December 1, 2005 2:07 AM

QUIETUDE


I think having a pet on board is definitely a cliche. Spot with Data springs to mind immediately, and god how boring was that!

Of course you have the cat on board in 'Alien' and it got a guy killed in that movie. Plus from a expense point of view in filming episodes it's very hard to control a cat especially for a particular scene. Dogs are alright I gues but they always look off camera at their trainer a.k.a Frasier.

Also I can imagine River taking a knife to a ships pet when nobody is looking, she did after all cut Jayne just to confirm he looked better in red.

Firefly is about how the crew interacts, and having a pet would have slowed that down and introduced unnecessary breaks.

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Thursday, December 1, 2005 4:03 AM

GIXXER


You want to avoid a return to the dark days when everyone had to have a cute sidekick.

Few, if any of these, will not have you reaching for Vera:

Dr Who - K9

Battlestar Galactica - Muffy? Buffy?

Buck Rogers - Twiki. Neither know nor care about the spelling.

Oi, Binks! You're barred.

Very puzzling... If feels like there should be more, But I can't think of any. Maybe there weren't so many, and the extreme annoyingness of those ones warped my perceptions some.

Hmph. Nobody likes a short list. This is what happens when you embark on a rant without doing your research first...

G


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Thursday, December 1, 2005 7:18 AM

NADIE


That was graphic.
And disturbing.
Yet informative.

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Thursday, December 1, 2005 7:51 AM

GUNRUNNER


Quote:

Originally posted by Giantevilhead:
Quote:

Originally posted by GunRunner:
Submariners have had pets for a long time. USS Holland has a mascot dog (that nearly got shot out a torpedo tube once, but that’s another story), as did some boats in WWII. Another boat had a mascot skunk that a crewmember won in a card game. On a sub its constantly “daytime” except in sleeping areas, at least on Serenity there is a day-night cycle of some sort as seen in Objects in Space. Heck on the old 'smokeboats' its been said the roaches were part of the crew, Serenity's got a few (as seen in OIS) so maybe they could have a mascot roach?


Did those animals live full, healthy lives?

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

They probably lived as long as most animals were expected to live in the 1st half of the 20th centaury. Before we started feeding them food designed for them (on a sub they are probaly eating mainly table scraps) and giving them vaccinations. I know one dog that was aboard a US Destroyer in the Pacific during WWII lived quite a long time.

Oh and I just remembered a Russian sub Black Lila (K-108) had a mascot mouse or rat. Also based on a pic I have I think another Russian sub had a cat on board and it hunted rats (the pic is of a Russian sailor holding a cat with a rat in its mouth.)

EV Nova Firefly mod Message Board:
http://s4.invisionfree.com/GunRunner/index.php?act=idx

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Thursday, December 1, 2005 8:09 AM

GRAYFURY


Ok the food thing!.... ONE episode showed dog eating and you belive its that way in the whole Verse? They eat dog in Asia in THIS day and age. That doesnt mean that its that way in the whole world. Dogs and even cats are beloved members of the family for most of the world.

You mean to tell me that if Mal's life was saved by a mutt that hung around the trenches of Serenity valley, that he wouldnt go to all ends to preserve it? He has a DEEP, DEEP, DEEP sense of loyalty...(much like a dog) remember the line... "Because your a member of my crew, why are we still discusing this?" If A dog were "a member of the crew" I'm sure he would set a little protien aside to nurture it.

In old westerns, there was always a dog hanging around the gravy train... I mean there are a few western themes in the show right?....just a few!

"Dear God In Heaven!" - Plastic Dinosaur

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Thursday, December 1, 2005 10:13 AM

HERA7


There is a practical reason for no pets, they take up a lot of time in shooting scenes.

The three main time sinks in TV or film production are animals, young children and water action (boat work). Firefly was a fast shooting show with limited time and budget for production. Any experienced producer, writer or director is aware of the limitations of filming with animals so unless they are needed for a major plot point, tend to avoid useing them in TV production. Shooting days are measured in the number of script pages read, most TV shows shoot 7+ pages a day, while feature films shoot 3 or less each day. Movies have the time for working with animals, TV usually does not.

Another reason for lack of pets is that animals almost never repeat what they do even with direction. The way Firefly was shot with handheld cameras and several takes from different angles, continuity would of been impossible.

Horses are the easiest animals to film since they are almost always in direct control of the rider or teamster. Even then, horses are seen rarely in the series.

I'd rather see the time and money spend on the characters than on animals not necessary to forward the characters development and stories.




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Thursday, December 1, 2005 12:01 PM

GEDEON


Chickens. That's my opinion: Chickens become very in vogue in the futur. Loads of fun, and tasty too...

But only planetside. I wouldn't see a chicken jump those stairs on Serenity.

Gedeon

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Thursday, December 1, 2005 12:50 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Oh and I just remembered a Russian sub Black Lila (K-108) had a mascot mouse or rat.


Yep, that was the Black Lila, an Echo II captained by Boris Bag.. erk (Phonetic is Bag-da-sary-an, I think) I cannot spell the name.

USS Tautog SSN 639 plowed into her june 20th 1970 and nearly wiped her out, the captain honestly thought they DID sink her as they hightailed it home.

Thanks to the double-hull design of the Echo II, and the extreme durability of US HY-80, neither sub was actually lost.

Boris was extremely fond of the rat, and when it went missing he would not sail till it was found because he believed if the rat fled, the ship was likely to sink.

So he told the inspectors that the meat in the fridge was outdated in order to buy time to find the little rodent.

-Frem

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Thursday, December 1, 2005 2:01 PM

DC4BS


Quote:

Originally posted by Gixxer:

Battlestar Galactica - Muffy? Buffy?



Muffet the Dagget (a chimpanzee in a kind of doglike creature costume).

Apparently, the actors hated having to do scenes with it.

I was WAY into that show when I was a kid. ;)

Was it Monkeys? Were there space monkys, Kaylee?

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