GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Getting Book Published

POSTED BY: QUEENOFTHENORTH
UPDATED: Thursday, March 16, 2006 18:43
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Wednesday, November 23, 2005 6:33 AM

SERENITYVALLEY


Aw, don't get depressed. Looks like lots of people are interested. And definitely don't get drunk. Do you really want to support the stereotype of writers? I don't. You got farther than most people do and it's not over yet. Plus the holidays are coming and people might wait 'til then to buy things.

http://www.simple-assault.com/Firefly.htm

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Wednesday, November 23, 2005 6:43 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


That could be true. Thanks for the encouragement, SerenityValley.

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
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Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:25 AM

STAKETHELURK


XG has already given you some good advice, but I’d like to add my two cents.

A near-consensus in the SF & F field is that it is always better to start out with short stories than with a novel. Short stories don’t require as much of an investment of time and energy as a novel, they get feedback faster than a novel, they teach most of the things you need to know to write a novel, and once you start getting published in the magazines, they get your name out to publishers.

You’ve decided to start out with a novel and like many folks have had a real difficulty getting it out there. I applaud you for your determination to publish your material; with luck it may well catch on. However, no matter what happens with your present novel, I recommend you follow it up with short stories. They take less time to write and require much less of an effort to get them published. And once you start turning up in the magazines, your name will slowly get on the radar of publishers who are interested in fantasy. Additionally, every story you write will improve your writing. No matter how good a writer you are, you can always be better--and the best way to improve your craft is to write. Which means that every story you finish, even if it doesn’t get published, will have improved your ability and made your chances of getting published the next time round much better. So that’s my recommendation, as one struggling F & SF writer to another.

If you want additional information about writing or publishing, I recommend you check out this site (if you haven’t already): www.sfwa.org. Among other things, they can point you towards publishers who deal in fantasy and SF.

Whatever you do, I wish you the best of luck. The world has too few writers, not too many, so keep at it!

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Saturday, November 26, 2005 1:37 PM

XEROGRAVITY


Heyhey Queeny...

Your book has arrived.

Will be reading it in short order. Schedule is hectic but I should polish it off within a week or 2.

Hey boys... her pic is on the back cover and she's a hottie! Who'd have thunk it?

I'm having to rethink my views on life. I figured any woman who could write a book would have 3 eyes or tentacles. Or tentacles with 3 eyes each. Or even a 3rd eye at the end of a tentacle. I'm flexible when it comes to my delusions.

XG


No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Monday, November 28, 2005 7:17 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


Thanks for the compliment, XG! At least this way, if you don't like my book, I'll know that I'm hot. Anyways, be sure to let me know what you think, even if it's mean and evil.

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
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Monday, November 28, 2005 9:05 AM

HAKEN

Likes to mess with stuffs.


Quote:

Originally posted by queenofthenorth:
All right - fine - kinda figured as much. I'll leave it alone after this and just keep the link in my signature. I'll wait and see what happens.



If you have a direct link, I can put it in the Marketplace section of this site. I did just that for another person who self published an unofficial guide to Firefly.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 9:57 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


That'd be great, Haken, thanks. I'm pretty sure the link in my signature is a direct one. Let me know if it isn't.

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
to find out how to buy mine!

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Friday, December 2, 2005 1:35 PM

XEROGRAVITY


Alright Queeny I'm moving into Mystic Wings. It's a good read so far. Worthy of some praise and worthy of some criticism.

I'll wait till I've read the whole thing and mull it over a bit before I finally weigh in. When I do, I will want you to know where I'm coming from...

I wanna share something with you.

When I was in college, I had an amazing Literature professor. A cantankerous bearded old coot. I went there for a technical education and was forced againt my will to knock out some English courses as prerequisites. Got stuck with this guy. Prolly one of the better things to ever happen to me.

He was an eccentric oddball, and a threat to my GPA. Was hoping I could cruise through his class (an easy "A") but he was a stickler for punctuation, sentence structure, proper construction of a storyline, etc. Really loved to push people. He could always find something to be critical about. But, he also always had a suggestion on how to improve whatever he saw as being wrong.

At the beginning of each class, he'd start off with a story of some sort. He'd interrupt the class in the middle of a lesson to interject other stories. If someone did something out of the ordinary, he always had a story that somehow fit the subject. The guy was a born storyteller. And a real hardass. He was merciless, but always somehow managed to keep it interesting.

He had a natural ability to make people want to learn. A distinct talent I lack.

Just as an example of his eccentric stories (and no, this has nothing to do with anything, but it sticks out in my mind as memorable): He had nosey neighbors who liked to gossip. Always sticking their nose into everyone else's business (including his). His wife was nagging him to death about it. So, one day, he got up early in the morning when he knew his nosey neighbor was headed off to work, put on a civil war uniform (he was a re-enactor), and rode his horse around in the front yard hacking up his hedges with a sabre. His neighbor, who was about to get into a car to make the morning commute, stood there and watched dumbfounded. The professor put his horse back in the stable and returned to bed. And, within a day or so, the gossip started.

This man is a tenured professor mind you, an upstanding dignified member of the community. But he had a wildly creative side that he only revealed to his students. The guy was amazing in that respect.

When the "other" neighbors were asking him about it, he played dumb. He did'nt lie or attempt to deny it. He just stared them in the eye, repeated the question word for word, and then walked away without another word.

The gossipers went on to never gossip about him again. Surely, the professor would NEVER ride around in the wee hours of the morning, in a civil war costume hacking up the bushes. Preposterous.

This guy was one of a kind. I even enrolled for another class he taught the next semester. One of the few classes I ever took that wasn't a pre-req. From him I learned alot about writing and storytelling. I don't aspire to be a writer, but I can appreciate the process.

When I'm critical (and I will be), just know I have only him as rolemodel in this department. Doubt I'll measure up, but at least you know where I'm coming from.

XG


No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Monday, December 5, 2005 5:47 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


Well, it's good to know you don't hate it completely. Hopefully you will like it somewhat. That's all I can hope for. That professor sounds like a great guy. I can just imagine the look on his neighbor's face when he rode around his front yard hacking at hedges! Hehe. Priceless.

"Well, then, I believe perhaps that I am, in fact, completely screwed."

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
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Tuesday, December 6, 2005 5:54 AM

XEROGRAVITY


...and no that isn't a setup. Your writing is good thusfar. You have the knack for telling a good and interesting story, no doubt about it.

Nobody is above criticism. I don't have praise for anyone (even my idols) without some degree of criticism. I'm just hopeful it's more than honest ~ accurate and justified. It will be merciless. But honest.

So far, the criticism is little, the storytelling is worthy. But I'm just getting into the thick of it and my opinion is building.


XG


No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Tuesday, December 6, 2005 5:59 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


Great! Thanks for the praise. I don't mind the criticism as long as it is honest. I just don't like people who say that it sucks just for the hell of it.

"Well, then, I believe perhaps that I am, in fact, completely screwed."

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
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Saturday, December 10, 2005 6:33 AM

XEROGRAVITY


Chapter 12: Back to Fallor... here I come.

Although 13, Betrayal, sounds way more enticing.

Busy weekend ahead but I'll be done and all opinionated and typewriterish about it before the next weekend rolls around. (and no, I haven't skipped forward and read the ending).

XG


No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Monday, December 12, 2005 5:56 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


So, my first review in less than a week. Here's hoping it doesn't warp my fragile little mind .

"Well, then, I believe perhaps that I am, in fact, completely screwed."

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
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Wednesday, December 14, 2005 2:00 PM

XEROGRAVITY


Ya know what Queeny? Normally I could tear thru a book like yours in one sitting. I like to devote private time, shut out everything, and read my ass off. I have'nt been able to do that. I've been reading the book piecemeal and it's hard to henpeck at it like that. SOOOOooo.. I'm starting from the beginning.

AND, I'm going to dish out my criticism and my praise one parcel at a time. Might as well start right now... (and I warned you, no kid gloves, I'm an asshole, but a blunt and brutally honest one):

...and PS to all the rest of you Whedon-shmoozing fanboi-ish and fangoil-ish types:

This is now a private "public" thread between Queeny and I. I bought her book and you didn't. You should! But you obviously haven't. You feel like commenting in this thread? Read the above. Follow the links, spend your coin of the realm, read her book, and voila. You're qualified to participate in this thread. Otherwise.. piss off.

I begin... (it'll get better, I promise you! I'm just really harsh with the first part of this)...

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Wednesday, December 14, 2005 2:29 PM

XEROGRAVITY


I hate to open up by being ugly but I'm being honest.

The beginning of the book moves way too rapidly. Aldrain's background story with his father being killed by warlocks, his magician's training (or lack thereof), and his mother's role as council to the king, desperately needed to be fleshed out. It's a great premise, but sparse on details. It's such a pivotal and traumatic start to his young life. I feel you should have approached it with that classical "Once upon a time..." narrative-style. There is so much to work with here, yet you do far too little with it.

It was totally emotionless.

I'm wondering why the kid isn't freaking out and crying an amazon river when his father gets the magical fire-from-the-fingers nuke. That kind of death is worth crying over. Or roasting chestnuts and marshmallows over. Noble deaths deserve some kind of weeping. Hell I periodically cry for hungry suffering children in 3rd-world countries (especially when I'm cutting up onions and people are watching).

Anyhow, he's escaping through a tunnel and taking a boat to wherever. Here again, I think the story is lacking in detail and a sense of logical progression. I'm thinking, Ok, his pappy just got fried, nuked, killed, murdered, perished, made-dead, deadified, "X"d out, scratched off the roster, privately invited to the pearly gates, dispatched with, etc., and now... is this kid gonna go try and track down his absent mother (cavorting with the sexy king? is this some kind of weird love triangle thing?)and warn precious "Ma'maa" about the warlock assassins or just take the first boat out of "Dodge"? Obedient son that he is, he goes for the boat. HEY! Who cooks better? Gourmet Mammy or pappy? He so betrays his tastebuds.

...more coming shortly... taking a prolonged smoke break... oh shutup already! I'll be back.

and when I do, I'll be the biggest most critical prick on the face of Earth (and several other planets ~ I've been merciful up until now, but my whip is thirsting for blood *diabolical Muhahahaha laughter*)...

seroiously... I got some criticyziheeng (sp?)

gyahh! what?

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Wednesday, December 14, 2005 2:55 PM

XEROGRAVITY


this could potentially be a really long ass cigarette break.

maybe.

xg (i'm boycotting caps)

(nextpostimightboycottthespacebarintheinterestofsavingspace) (maybe)

nosuchthingasgravitytheearththatwasjustsucks

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Wednesday, December 14, 2005 3:39 PM

XEROGRAVITY


Ok.. more book evaluation... I warned you!

We find ourselves following Aldrain to his escape pod, the ship that will carry him off to a safe harbour. He spends 30+ seconds or so talking with a common sailor and is invited aboard, taken for a grand tour of the boat, and asked to join the crew (by the same lowly sailor). This doesn't make much sense. Is he gonna talk to the ship's captain? Are these seafaring men of the ocean going to investigate his story in any detail? He just escape an assassination plot that killed his father (?), aren't they the least bit curious about it? What about money? Does he have enough money to pay for his passage on the boat? If not, will he maybe take up a job for a time as cabinboy or deckhand and earn his place sailing the high seas? Does he have a coin purse to pay, or maybe some family heirlooms to trade (rings, necklaces, etc.)? Is he travelling beggar-express, or maybe he got denied passage and stowed away?

At this point in the book, I'm full of questions. Too many holes in the plot for it all to make sense. We jump 20+ years into the future (with no details of the time inbetween ~ which is why I have so many questions)...

All in all, we're off to a very weak start. You could have had alot of fun elaborating on the details here, but you just kind of zoomed thru it at breakneck speed. This is the most critical part of any good book, the beginning. I didn't have the start of his life explained to me, I just got left with lots and lots of questions.

You have to get your meathooks into a person and capture their interest upfront. You can narrate too little (which you've done), or narrate too much, which J.R.R. Tolkien did. Ever read "The Hobbit"? That is one of my alltime favorite books. However, Tolkien bored me to death with the first chapter. It took years for me to read thru it. Longwinded waste of my time.

Drunken dwarves endlessly singing. I'd start reading it, then put it down. People raved about what a great book it was, so one day I bit the bullet, and read thru the BS. When I finally got to the meaty parts in the book, I was totally in love. I couldn't put the book down. I tore thru it and when I got to the end, I immediately began to reread it (minus the hammered-ass dwarven blotto poetry).

That gin-spinner Bilbo must make one helluva martini. Gandalf I imagine is more of a sly whiskey drinker (scotchy rotgut ~ hold the hobbit-olives, "nuked, not stirred").

I've read that book (and LOTR) 5 or 6 times in my life. Some books are so worth rereading. They don't leave you asking questions, except for maybe WHY OH WHY MUST I LISTEN TO FRIGGIN DWARVES SING?

My vision of hell is a bunch of drunken dwarves singing "How dry I ammmmmmm" endlessly.

XG

done for tonight

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Wednesday, December 14, 2005 4:47 PM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


Okay, I figured as much. Being that I did write that entire first part in about three days, I think it's not bad. It was more about the beginning than Aldrain anyway, but I'll give that to you.

More narration in the next book. Okay, no problem, I can do that. I was already thinking along those lines anyway. Oh, and I'll be sure to include about 5-10 pages worth of drunken dwarves singing, just for you.

"Sir, you actually said 'wink, wink'. I don't think that -"
"Oh, you'd be surprised."

"Yes, the new plan will STILL involve rocket skates."
"YAY!"

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
to find out how to buy mine!

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Friday, December 16, 2005 10:41 AM

XEROGRAVITY


Ok. One more major dose of harsh criticism, then it's fairly smooth sailing. I'll still have criticisms but they'll be rather tame by comparison. I'll leave the bearded beerguzzling musical midgets out of this one.

Picking up where I left off...

20 years later. Aldrain, sorcerer's apprentice, is living in a hut with his elderly guru. It has that whole "Luke and Obi-wan" vibe to it (which is better than "Skipper and Gilligan"). Enter stage left, Princess Tanoya (his half-sister). I'm thinking Leia. The plot is still moving forward too fast. Before I know what hits me, the world is exploding and Aldrain and Tanoya are escaping into the "World Beyond". Somewhere inbetween, the royal family got whacked, they've rallied the troops, stormed the warlock castle, suffered a defeat, etc. It felt like the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire summarized in cliff notes. Too much action condensed into too few pages.

It's been fairly disappointing up till now. Forgettable characters and a blur of storytelling. The outline of the plot is great, the delivery poorly executed. Alot of missed opportunities.

BUT, Here's where you really shocked me. At this point in the book, I'm thinking "predictable" and "boring". Suddenly the story does a complete and total 180. We've turned some kind of corner and your writing starts to take off. One minute you're pelting me with grapes, the next you're dropping a small building on me.

When Aldrain and Tanoya are in the ethereal "World Beyond", I find myself unexpectedly swept into the story. The characters take on new dimensions. She has that shapeshifting goddess from Mount Olympus thing going on, and Aldrain starts feeling like Merlin, the immortal arch-magi from Arthurian legend. The whole thing is very dreamlike, and the writing is beautiful. And original! By the time I read through this part of the story, I'm picking my proverbial jaw up from the ground. You really thought this part out. The dialogue is a little shaky at times, but the storytelling is solid. This is where the book earns it's title.

Your development of a romantic creationist mythology is brilliant. It feels like the pantheon of the Greco-Roman gods retold with a "Sword and Sorcery" theme. I also enjoyed the rationale behind the 5 elements of magic, that whole Zen balance in the universe thing. Very clever. When the world is being reborn and reseeded with magical plantlife, the imagery is very vivid. You repopulated the world with animals, humans, elves ("second sight" ~ nice touch!), dwarves, dragons, unicorns, and the messengers of the gods. Very very cool. You did a superb job describing all of this. I was blown away.

You score one final amazing bit of praiseworthy writing in this part of the book. The last brief part ~ the warlocks repopulating the other half of the world with their demonic minions. Ahh... the chessboard is set. Game on.



XG

I'm done for today. I'll put on my supervillain cloak tomorrow.

No such thing as Middle Earth. The "World Beyond" just took over.

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Friday, December 16, 2005 12:31 PM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


Wow, XG, that was a lot of very nice praising. Are you feeling ill? Do you need to lie down? I know it hurts the first time.

In all seriousness, though, thanks very much. This was the part I was most sensitive about, because as you say, I did invest a lot of thought into this. I expected you to tear it a new one and you really liked it. Incidentally, my dad also liked this part. He said it made him stop and think "huh, I wonder if that's how it happened." Which is what I was going for.

That was what that part of the book was about, not Aldrain. I just told what I thought were the relevant points of Aldrain's history in connection with the beginning of Fallor. Although you were right that I could have done a lot more with it. I may go back and tell Aldrain's story in a lot more detail at some future point.

Anyways, back to work. Sigh.

"Sir, you actually said 'wink, wink'. I don't think that -"
"Oh, you'd be surprised."

"Yes, the new plan will STILL involve rocket skates."
"YAY!"

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
to find out how to buy mine!

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Tuesday, December 20, 2005 5:16 AM

XEROGRAVITY


Queeny

You have a good book. Or the makings of one at least.

I'm not gonna nitpick it to pieces and give you in-depth criticisms/compliments. In fact, this is my final post in these forums. It's your first book out of the gate and pretty damned good, all things considered. I love aspiring authors. Sometimes they start revolutions, sometimes they just make people think, and most of the time they can't even get published. Sometimes they are raw, innocent, and talented (kinda like you).

So one final criticism (I hope it's constructive).

I always think movies based on books never measure up. It's because in the books, the authors tell you what the characters are thinking. You have a great plot, but you almost never write about the character's inner dialogue, their innermost thoughts. There are never those moments when they are talking to themselves (if only between their ears), or reflecting back and remembering things.

That little voice inside their head, that inner dialogue, is the best tool in an author's toolbox. Character development. Of course, when the inner voice starts talking back, it's time to check into a nutfarm or claim "god" is talking to you and start a religion.

That, to me, is why movies never are as good as the books. Actors and the people watching them can't climb inside the head of the characters they are pretending to be.

Hope that helps. If you ever write a 2nd part, I'll be certain to buy it. *WinkNstuff*

XG


No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Thursday, December 22, 2005 2:28 PM

JAYTEE


I admire your pluck for actually writing a book and getting it published along with your shameless self-marketting. You go, girl! I'll definitely check it out and if it looks interesting I'll even buy it and since it's your first novel I'll go easy on you because some of the crappiest stuff out there were the early works of great authors so whatever you do, don't give up or as Mal would say, "Hold!, you hold!" and before you know it you'll be mighty! As a professional procrastinator I've been intending to write a book now for several decades. Maybe after I retire from being a professional procrastinator I'll actually write one but for now there are just too many things to put off and too many excuses to make. Excuses are especially difficult and they are so slippery they tend to slip out of the packaging before it's properly sealed :-)

Jaytee

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Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:56 PM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


Thanks a lot! If you do check it out I hope you'll enjoy it. I am going to stick with it. I'm already working on another one, though I'm so busy right now I don't know if I will ever get it finished.

"Sir, you actually said 'wink, wink'. I don't think that -"
"Oh, you'd be surprised."

"Yes, the new plan will STILL involve rocket skates."
"YAY!"

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
to find out how to buy mine!

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Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:07 PM

SERAFIMO


Hi Queen...congratulations on your accomplishment!

I was wondering...how much does all this cost?

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Monday, January 2, 2006 5:34 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


Thanks!

Uh . . . do you mean to get it published or to buy it??

"Sir, you actually said 'wink, wink'. I don't think that -"
"Oh, you'd be surprised."

"Yes, the new plan will STILL involve rocket skates."
"YAY!"

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
to find out how to buy mine!

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Monday, January 9, 2006 1:09 PM

PSOLARIS


Guess what came in the mail today Queeny

Psolaris

"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'"

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Monday, January 9, 2006 2:59 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC


It does not look like my kind of book, at all, but I just wanted to wish you luck. Anyone who is devoted enough to finish writing a book deserves praise.

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Tuesday, January 10, 2006 5:17 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


Right on, Psolaris, that was quick! Let me know what you think!

Thanks, Christhecynic. It did take a lot of work to get done. Here's hoping it's worth it.

"I'm having one of those things - a headache with pictures."

"Sucker! Competitive violence, that's why you're here!"

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
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Wednesday, February 1, 2006 8:27 PM

OOKAMIKAWAHARA


Hey Queen,
Just wanted to drop ya a quick line and let ya know that I have your book on order from Barns and Noble. So probably next week sometime pick it up and start reading it. Hope everything else is going good for you and of course book sales hopefully are on the up. Hang in there and talk with you later.
mata, Ookami yori

Surren boys time to lead the way and beat a path through these gorram Allanice boys here.
Why Sarge, I do believe a flanken attack is in order here.

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Thursday, February 2, 2006 5:19 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


Thanks a lot, Ooka! Hope you enjoy it!

"I'm having one of those things - a headache with pictures."

"Of course I'm right. And if I'm not, may we all be horribly crushed from above somehow."

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Friday, February 3, 2006 7:49 PM

XEROGRAVITY


Back early. not by choice. the guilt just kind of nags at me.

http://www.magister.msk.ru/library/babilon/english/howard/howard.htm


read that. forget the comic books and movies. read the works from the man.

pull your book off the printing press and just read everything by him that you can. he is the father of sword and sorcery. you lack talent and to study him is to be great.

xg

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Friday, February 3, 2006 7:51 PM

XEROGRAVITY


PS - tolkien copied him (badly)

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Saturday, February 4, 2006 11:15 AM

HARSHCRITIC


I going to get your book on amazon. I really admire your energy. I too am a writer. Would you mind answer a few personal questions about the publishing process through authorhouse? Can I email them to you?

For those who have read it already you should write a review on amazon or bn.com.

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Monday, February 6, 2006 5:02 AM

XEROGRAVITY


Queeny,

You are as dumb as the day is long. You can't have clay feet. I give you the secret to success in your field and you do and say nothing. I gave you a link to REH's beautiful works (public domain as they are). You'll probably never read them. Such a shame.

REH's Hyborean age is something out of a 1960's and 70's Frazetta painting. Robert E. Howard's Beowulf-inspired pulp novels are the best sword and sorcery stories ever penned. His writing never lets you forget the barbarism and cruelty of the ancient world. Conan, either as solo marauder or with freebooting cohorts, roams a wicked and pitiless world, debauching wicked women and deflowering priestly virgins, thieving, hacking and slaying his way from one adventure to the next. I won't mention Kull ever again since hollywood poisoned the storyline by putting that xero-talent whore Kevin Sorbo into the role. It was the rape of good literature.

When REH describes combat it's always dark and superviolent. The imagery is intensely vivid and his atmospherics make for incredible reading. Howard is the best I've ever seen in the sword and sorcery genre. He fathered it after all. His words bring to life worlds beyond my senses. To hear him tell tales of battles is to be transported there. Things like looming stormclouds darkening the horizons, cold winds and crescent banners swaying above the ugly swordplay, the peal of trumpets before the battle is joined, the swarms of arrows whistling through the sky obscuring the sun, etc. Nobody could write like Howard.

Tolkien modeled Middle Earth and his entire style of writing after REH's Hyborean world, although far less dark, and much more mythical. The dreamlike nightmare world of REH was inhabited by demonic powers, ravenous monsters, and ancient heathen demi-gods, any one of which would make Tolkien's red dragon, "Smaug", feel like a playful pussycat. Before there was Sauron, there was the texts of REH.

If you want to write fantasy books about a dreamworld, you MUST study the masters who came before you. Your writing sucks and you need to read the works of the great ones. No goddess could or would ever equal the monstrous powers of REH's world.

You need to infuse your writing with the masters who came before you. otherwise you will always be amateurish.

I think this finishes my obligation to be honest with you about my opinions. Bought your book and hated it. Hate me but I'm being honest with you.

XG

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Monday, February 6, 2006 5:34 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


Quote:

Originally posted by harshcritic:
I going to get your book on amazon. I really admire your energy. I too am a writer. Would you mind answer a few personal questions about the publishing process through authorhouse? Can I email them to you?

For those who have read it already you should write a review on amazon or bn.com.



Thanks for the support, harshcritic. I wouldn't mind answering any questions you have. Just pm them to me and I'll answer anything I can.

As for you, XG, good attempt at trying to piss me off. But I'm simply going to take the advice I need and not care about the rest of what you posted. I know you're just trying to get me to tell you to go away and never come back. So, if that's what you want, go away and never come back.

But how seriously do you think I could take that when you've blatantly contradicted everything you previously posted? I mean really, I thought you had more conviction than that. And I'm not insulted that you said you hated my book. That's fine. What insults me is that you think I'm as easy to piss off as everyone else around here. Do you think you're the first asshole I've ever met? You've got nothing on the people I know and have met in person. I'm not so thin-skinned and cowardly as all that. Cuz when it comes down to it, just like I'm an amateur writer, you're an amateur asshole.

"I'm having one of those things - a headache with pictures."

"Of course I'm right. And if I'm not, may we all be horribly crushed from above somehow."

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Monday, February 6, 2006 5:43 AM

XEROGRAVITY


Oops. I forgot to mention Kull to begin with.

His works were epic tales of Kull the Atlantean, Conan whom I'm sure you already know, and most important to your writing ~ Red Sonja. The first chick to ever sling a sword in a world full of supernatural terrors.

You are hellbent on writing about women wielding swords. Red Sonja should be your inspiration.

Forget that disgusting film hollywood made starring Brigite whats-her-name. Read the REH "Red Sonja" texts. She was just Stallone's bedroom toy and her terrible acting should never reflect on the novels.

XG


No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Monday, February 6, 2006 6:26 AM

PSOLARIS


Quote:

Originally posted by XeroGravity:
PS - tolkien copied him (badly)



Actually if you do some research you'll see that Tolkien's inspiration came from an author he read over and over as a boy, and his name was Andrew Lang. He was very interested in this fanasty genre author while he was a young child. As he grew older he also became heavily inspired by Medieval Welsh lore and even started creating his own languages based on Gothic and Norse (he was 14 years old at the time). This was in 1906, the year that Howard was born. In 1911, Tolkien went on a holiday to Switzerland, and he started jotting down his adventures with 12 other hikers through the mountains, which became the inspiration for Bilbo's adventures through the Misty Mountains. Howard would have been 5 years old at this time. And in 1916, Tolkien started writing The Book of Lost Tales, which is the start of his History of Middle Earth. Howard was 10 years old when all of this happened.

The first thing I can find that Howard wrote was in 1932, after Tolkien was already writing his epic fanatsy genre. So no, Tolkien was not inspired by Howard, and did not copy Howard. Tolkien's inspirations came to him as he was a young child, either before Howard was born, and as Howard was an infant.

Howard is considered the Father of Sword and Sorcery genre whereas Tolkien is considered the Father of the Epic Fantasy genre.



Psolaris

"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'"

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 10:27 AM

XEROGRAVITY


As for you Psolaris, I'll deal with you later. I will gladly tear apart the myths you possess about the fraud Tolkien.

Anglophiles everywhere will be up in arms.

For now, I focus on Queeny.

Queeny:

I'm not trying to piss you off. You can't handle what I have to say when it comes down to it.

YES! Your writing is amateurish. Your "Sword and Sorcery" heroes and villains are all predictably black and white. There is no in-between. Your writing is formula-based and boring.

I give you REH and you give me a whole lotta lip.

Accuse me of all kind of nonsensical plots but you know I'm saying what I think.

XG

psolairs: I so desperately want to deal with your misguided load of horseshit but I will do so later. tolkien was a 1/2-ass hack. nothing more.

strangely enough "The Hobbit" is my most-favorite book, as big a whore as Tolkien was. LOTR won't even appear in my top 50.


STFU. for the greater good.


No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 7:20 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


Quote:

Originally posted by XeroGravity:
I'm not trying to piss you off. You can't handle what I have to say when it comes down to it.

YES! Your writing is amateurish. Your "Sword and Sorcery" heroes and villains are all predictably black and white. There is no in-between. Your writing is formula-based and boring.

I give you REH and you give me a whole lotta lip.

Accuse me of all kind of nonsensical plots but you know I'm saying what I think.

]



Um, yeah, I can handle what you say. I believe that I admitted myself that my writing is amateurish. I know it is. Being, you know, that I am an amateur. That would be why I'm trying to better myself. And I did say I would take your advice. I just said I would ignore the part where you do your usual, over-the-top, try to piss the world off statements. Yeah, you're saying what you think. You're also doing your best to try and piss people off, just like you always do. Being that you completely turned around on stuff you said earlier makes it kind of obvious. Don't think I'm an idiot just because I'm an amateur. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have more writing to do.

"I'm having one of those things - a headache with pictures."

"Of course I'm right. And if I'm not, may we all be horribly crushed from above somehow."

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 8:38 AM

KILLIAN


From mostly a lurker....

Wow XG WTF! Are you bipolar or smoking something strange on your smoke breaks? You give criticism and praise to her book then turn rabid.....???

Like JRR or not, Psolaris is right about the timelines. Do some research.....and lighten up. As for me REH ---meh he’s OK

As for Queenofthenorth, good on you for trying. Ignore the armchair critics and keep writing.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 8:44 AM

SERENITYVALLEY


Umm...we'll I'm really excited that I finished writing my third novel last month, but I think I'll make a mental note to not post it's publication here (hoping that happens). Seems to be a lot of unneccessary anger here.

http://www.simple-assault.com/Firefly.htm

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 1:22 PM

PSOLARIS


Quote:

Originally posted by XeroGravity:
As for you Psolaris, I'll deal with you later. I will gladly tear apart the myths you possess about the fraud Tolkien.

psolairs: I so desperately want to deal with your misguided load of horseshit but I will do so later. tolkien was a 1/2-ass hack. nothing more.

strangely enough "The Hobbit" is my most-favorite book, as big a whore as Tolkien was. LOTR won't even appear in my top 50.



Sorry XG my dear, but what I quoted was all fact. Go look it up yourself if you do not believe me. I did much Tolkien study in High School and in college because I did love his writings. As did I love C.S. Lewis, and I also did much studying on him. No where in my previous post, however, did I critique Tolkien, no where did I state what my opinion on the man is, I simply wrote down who inspired him, and when his realm of middle earth became to take shape, which is all well before Howard started to write. I was simply explaining that REH had no bearings on Tolkien's writings what so ever. That they both are the father's of somethings, but different somethings.

I do enjoy REH quite a bit, I do consider him a talented yet dark writer. In my opinion he can put the scare to the page, and that's what I loved about it. As for Tolkien, he created an entire world, with a history, with timelines, with bloodlines and lineage all recorded, with several different languages all of which he created being that he was a linguist in college; he created the syntax, the grammar, the conjugations. That in and of itself is brilliance in my book. And in fact I find his writings to be brilliant and inspirational. He's the reason I love the epic fantasy genre to begin with. But those are simply MY opinions on the man.

There are no myths that I've stated about Tolkien. All of this is relatively easy to look up yourself. I'm not here to debate whether or not Tolkien is a greater writer or if REH is. Yes I have my opinions on both, as obviously you do as well. Yes indeed it is quite obvious what your opinion is. But don't sit there and try to "tear" apart what I posses when all I've stated is facts. If you want to rip into Tolkien and what your feelings are on him, go right ahead...all of us are entitled to our feelings. I won't get offended because you want to tear apart my favorite author. It'd be downright hypocritical to deny anyone the right to talk about their opinions, their thoughts, and their feelings. But as for misguided load of horshit...

Go look it up yourself and see if what I posted before is false.

Psolaris

"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'"

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 1:26 PM

PSOLARIS


Quote:

Originally posted by SerenityValley:
Umm...we'll I'm really excited that I finished writing my third novel last month, but I think I'll make a mental note to not post it's publication here (hoping that happens). Seems to be a lot of unneccessary anger here.



SV, you go ahead and post when you get that published!! I'd love to know about it and support a fellow Browncoat. Worry not about anger my friend. I'm proud of you for writing your third novel!!

Psolaris

"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'"

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 5:22 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


Killian: Thanks for the support.

SerenityValley: You just finished writing your third novel? Wow. That's awesome. I'm working on 2 and 3 but haven't finished them yet. Time is kind of a bad factor. Anyways, as psolaris said, please let me know if you get it published. I'd be happy to pick up a copy. By the way, are your previous two published? If so, I will try to find them. Also, don't worry about the unnecessary anger. I'm not mad at XG. Yet. Just sticking up for myself is all.

"I'm having one of those things - a headache with pictures."

"Of course I'm right. And if I'm not, may we all be horribly crushed from above somehow."

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
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Thursday, February 9, 2006 3:26 PM

XEROGRAVITY


Queeny:

Your characters are dry and passionless. The plot in your story drags on because it's mechanical and boring. The storylines roll along like a sitcom script. I could care less what happened to the characters in your book from one page to the next. Your writing was not compelling. I wasn't into the story and the characters. Newp just wasn't workin for me. And no, I'm not contradicting myself. If I had tore your book apart page by page, in the final analysis I would not have spared you what I now say. You got praise from me on purely technical points.

You can write but you can't tell a story. 2 very different things. If you'd read the authors I recommend and study them in-depth, you could cure all your ills. I give you an A+ on technical talent and high-school level writing; your grammar and punctuation is all superdooper... but you can't tell interesting stories. I want death, violence, sex (and lots of it), more violence, even more sex (with an extra helping of sex thrown in for good measure).

I want Dr. Phil to FORBID mention of your book on his show. I want gratuitously interesting shit to happen in your books. You are way way way WAAAAAAAAAY to fuckin tame. Read REH and the worm will turn for you. Or don't. I genuinely couldn't give a shit. You want my opinion and your getting it, like it or not.

You have to dig up the great works of other authors and take inspiration from them. R.E. Howard, his best-friend, H.P. Lovecraft are 2 really good places to start. (also check out Robert Aspirin's MYTH books as well as Thieves' World ~ 2 minor epics in great literary work relating to your style of writing). If you want to invent fictional worlds and epic universes that make for great story-telling, you need to study and read under the greats who've already succeeded.

There is also (AND THIS IS SUPREMELY RECOMMENDED) the canons of "The Arabian Nights". Just go google it and read the books. Look for the english-language translations that spare no details and don't modify any part of it's writing. Literal translations.

Study these texts and blend them into your writing and you'll stop being an amateur.

Psolaris:

I am SO gonna annihilate you on this Tolkien debate thing. You should go run and hide cuz I know my literature (I actually read and read and read). Yer outta yer league chicklet.

But for now, this is about Queeny, our patron-saint of badly-written books. She is just so fucking gonna hate me for that.

XG

Eat me!

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 6:39 PM

PSOLARIS


Go ahead XG, as I do not fear what you may need to say. So no, I am not going to run and hide. I don't doubt you know your literature, but I do as well. As I stated before, all I did was give timelines. If you want to get into a debate over who's a better author, it's just gonna go around in circles as we each have our opinions on certain things, and I will not yield my feelings on what I think of Tolkien or Howard...because these feelings are mine and I hold strongly to them. So that kind of debate may be a waste of time...although it may not if your willing to respect my feelings on the subject as much as I am willing to respect yours.

I'm just all kinds of feisty man.



Psolaris

"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'"

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Friday, February 10, 2006 5:36 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


Quote:

Originally posted by XeroGravity:
Queeny:

I want death, violence, sex (and lots of it), more violence, even more sex (with an extra helping of sex thrown in for good measure).

You are way way way WAAAAAAAAAY to fuckin tame.
But for now, this is about Queeny, our patron-saint of badly-written books. She is just so fucking gonna hate me for that.




Sorry, XG, but I don't hate you. Is that what you were trying for? Because you failed miserably. Actually, you're doing me a favor by continually digging this thread out of the archives so more people know about my book. So please, continue. Not to mention that I find all of this vastly amusing.

Anyways, as for your statement that my book's too tame and doesn't have enough sex and death and violence, I was actually gearing it toward a younger audience. You know, kids. For which that kind of stuff would be highly inappropriate. So you'll forgive me if I don't take that suggestion/argument too seriously. I simply can't recall the last time I read a book geared towards younger audiences that was filled with sex, death and violence.

"I'm having one of those things - a headache with pictures."

"Of course I'm right. And if I'm not, may we all be horribly crushed from above somehow."

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
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Friday, February 10, 2006 7:32 AM

XEROGRAVITY


Queeny:

Well then. I withdraw everything I've said about your book. I didn't know it was written for children. I'm no judge of children's literature because... well, I'm no child. I read shit for people above the age of 18. I thought you were trying to write for adults. If you think my criticism is cruel, then you have a nasty awakening waiting right around the corner. Truth from the mouth of babes is "bad news." It's an honesty that will be infinitely more cruel from the lips of those ignorant little demons. If you want to write for children then I suggest the one true master, Seuss. Half art, half magic.

To be quite blunt, I gladly could use a break from your psycho-analysis of my motives. You probably live some sheltered existence and would never know honesty if it fell out of the heavens and landed on your head.

I will post nothing more regarding your book. I wouldn't have purchased it in the first place, nor will I ever purchase another. From now on, when you try to sell your writing, you should announce loud and clear it's meant for children. FF Fans aren't all composed of the young.



Psolaris: (the infinitely clueless one)

bottom line: REH put a bullet in his head in 1936. One year later, the same year we also lost his best friend and equally great author Lovecraft, "The Hobbit" was published. The copy-cat Oxford professor wrote with passion that he stole from their underground texts of REH and Lovecraft. They may have been pulp writers but their work was epic. People loved it (and still do, myself included). And no. Tokien didn't plagiarize. But yes, he lifted the style and the spirit from the writings of these 2 great men. He mixed it with the mythologies and theolgical crap that makes Europeans cream their jeans.

To keep the point brief, Tolkien copied these 2 great men and produced an epic work of art ("The Hobbit").

He blended his soul and educated background with everything he thieved from the true talents and gave us a great masterpiece of literature. Riding on their coat-tails, he outdid the men who inspired him. He did so in the form of that one book. But it would'nt last long.

Pilfering the writings of these great men and re-writing it with his own weird mix of background, he gave us "The Hobbit".

It was fucking insanely great, but still a copy. He struck gold with it. Riding on his on success, Tolkien then wind-bagged everyone to death with his half-ass poetry and absurdly tangled, twisted middle-earth rantings. We had to endure it through his next 3 books. He stole the mojo of REH and Lovecraft and did (1) a masterful painting of great literature ("The Hobbit"), and (2) an bottomless pit of words he called a trilogy (LOTR).


I ammend what I said in this thread earlier. I read hobbit 5-6 times. I only read LOTR trilogy (and silmarillion) twice. Trying to follow his blustery horse-manure writing was a fuckin agony. It was a laborious torture because he didn't know how to write shit that was (1) easy to read, and (2) easy to read.

Fuck these whores who love Peter Jackson films and proclaim loudly that they are faithful servants of the fraud Tolkien. If you're reading this and you are one of them, then fuck you! I was shaking a fist-full of AD&D dice and designing with pencil and paper whole worlds inspired from REH, Lovecraft, and my one true god (Gygax) before you were even born. I know Tokien's books and these asses don't. Neither do you Psolaris. I've devoured the writings of "the greats" before there was ever an internet to placate their simple minds.


XG

If you wanna live in the fanboi-ish world of legendary lies that surround Tolkine Psolaris, go for it.


No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Friday, February 10, 2006 10:30 AM

PSOLARIS


So lemme get this straight. Because I have a different taste in authors, then I'm infinitely clueless (and I recall you once calling me one of the only people here interesting enough to keep your interest, so short lived that seemed to be). You have no clue about who I am and what I know. As much as you devoured one genre, I devoured the other, and that has NOTHING to do with intelligence, but everything to do with different tastes we each own.

What I don't understand is how you seem to miss the point that Tolkien was already writing his story of middle earth before REH hit puberty. So explain to me just how on earth he copied from Howard's style when Howard didn't have a style to copy from. And what part of Tolkien drew much of his inspiration from the author Andrew Lang didn't you understand? Tolkien was sucked into Lang's world at a very young age and began writing in that style while he was still young himself, and all while Howard was still in diapers. I don't have a problem with you not liking Tolkien, as it's your opinion. You're not fond of his style obviously, but don't criticize him for something he is not guilty of. He did not pull from Howard, period. He pulled heavily from Lang, from the old Gothic and from old Norse mythology, and believe it or not he was fascinated by the old story of Beowulf. And besides, he did something that not many other authors do, and that's create an entire history of an entire world complete with many races, laws of each society, bloodlines and lineage all carefully recorded, each race having their own language which he himself created without the help of anyone else, timelines carefully kept about this world. That in itself is not a style he ripped from anyone, but showed his own passion for his own work.

Keep in mind, I did nothing but read anything that dealt with fanatasy growing up. You act like I did nothing but sit around and play dolls. Abso-fucking-lutely not. I read book after book after book, I studied my favorite authors, I imagined myself in their worlds when I read them, and I read them more than once. Hell, I still have a bookcase FULL of these books that I will STILL pull from and read. And point of interest, you're not much older than me (you're my senior by 4 years) so I don't doubt you were playing your D&D games at the same time I was playing mine...yes, I played much D&D too. And the games I played were not only worlds that were inspired by one person. They were inspired by Tolkien, Lewis, Howard, Le Guin, etc.

You disappoint me XG. All of your post is full of opinion. You feel that Tolkien copied Howard's style, yet you don't have the proof to back it. All I see here is your conjecture. I've given you timelines and other names in Tolkien's life that are cold hard facts to back up my claims that Howard had nothing to do with Tolkien's writings. He was too young to.

Psolaris

"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'"

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Friday, February 10, 2006 10:54 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


Quote:

Originally posted by XeroGravity:
Queeny:

Well then. I withdraw everything I've said about your book. I didn't know it was written for children. I'm no judge of children's literature because... well, I'm no child. I read shit for people above the age of 18. I thought you were trying to write for adults. If you think my criticism is cruel, then you have a nasty awakening waiting right around the corner. Truth from the mouth of babes is "bad news." It's an honesty that will be infinitely more cruel from the lips of those ignorant little demons. If you want to write for children then I suggest the one true master, Seuss. Half art, half magic.

To be quite blunt, I gladly could use a break from your psycho-analysis of my motives. You probably live some sheltered existence and would never know honesty if it fell out of the heavens and landed on your head.

I will post nothing more regarding your book. I wouldn't have purchased it in the first place, nor will I ever purchase another. From now on, when you try to sell your writing, you should announce loud and clear it's meant for children. FF Fans aren't all composed of the young.



]



I guess I should qualify that statement more. I wrote it so that it would be appropriate for children to read as well as adults. I don't see why you assume you can't read a children's book just because you're an adult. You know the Hobbit that you like so much? Widely regarded as a children's book. Chronicles of Narnia, Harry Potter? Children's books loved by millions of adults. But, just so you'll feel better, everyone at ff.net who's reading this, listen up, okay? My book is written to be appropriate for children as well as adults. So if you're looking for something bordering on violent pornography, don't buy my book, all right? There.

I don't know why you continue to claim that I can't accept honesty. You hate my book. You think it sucks. My book is not good/great/masterpiece of literature. I know this. I've accepted it. Repeatedly accepted it. I don't know where your difficulty in this is coming from. But I guess I shouldn't attempt to understand, because you'll accuse me of psychoanalyzing you.

By the way, I've read the Silmarillion and agree with you about it being a painfully unreadable book. I've also read LOTR twice but I think it's good, though it's also difficult to get through. I also read all of these before the movies came out, if that makes me more qualified to give my opinion. I don't know anything about the timelines, though, so I'll let you and Psolaris battle that out.

"I'm having one of those things - a headache with pictures."

"Of course I'm right. And if I'm not, may we all be horribly crushed from above somehow."

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
to find out how to buy mine!

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