GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

RE:

POSTED BY: HOWARD
UPDATED: Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:50
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 6979
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 12:53 PM

HOWARD



Now that all the major studios have announced that they will release films on both high-def DVD formats this marks the death-nail for HD-DVD. SONY Blu-Ray is already the clear winner with the PLAYSTATION machines due to put BLU-RAY into the hands of so many young people who will then be hooked as BLU-RAY consumers. On the AV/HomeCinema front SONY's Blu-Ray is clearly the far superior quality format and this is also why the games people want it, more data better graphics.

But there is something very sinister about the new version of DVD. The leading reason why Rupert Murdoch's NEWS CORP aka FOX endorsed BLU-RAY is due to the technology that assures anti-piracy
and command control of both your player and the
discs that you will put into the player. The current system of region coding is to be dropped.
This is because it has not stopped any of us from watching what we want from where we want. This is due to ALL change. BLU-RAY players will be connected to a phone-line. SONY has not admitted this to the consumer press but in the business press the guys from FOX have made it clear that this is what they want and why they decided to go with BLU-RAY.

Take myself as an example I live in the UK but buy my movies ( of all national origins and languages ) from North America because I want my movies running at their correct speed. North American technology runs at 60HZ while European technology runs at 50hz speeding up movies by 4%.

There is NO way I would ever be able to enjoy a 60hz movie on BLU-RAY because the system will insist that I am only authorized to play European product and the European phone-line clearance centre will only authorize my would-be player to play European issued discs. The reason why Murdoch backed SONY is that the remote command and control will have the capability to locked down and shut off any player perceived to be attempting an "illegal action".

You will not be able to watch say your DVD of SERENITY in BLU-RAY without going through a clearance procedure. They will of course spin this to be an amazing expansion of the format with bonus materials on websites that you will only be able to unlock via your BLU-RAY machine. They will tell you all the "benefits" while in reality it is about one thing and one thing only. Total control.

The studios and retailers will not say anything about this until as late as possible. Until they have managed to establish a beach-head for the same kind of audacity that exists in the PC market. Where no matter who makes your PC or that you own it, when you bring it home from the store or default back to factory setting, nothing works until you registered with MicroSoft. Ever tried clicking "I disagree" on one of those grey boxes?
Ever tried using your PC after saying no. This is the model the movie business is seeking to replace the existing DVD format with.

FEEDBACK PEOPLE: LET's Talk about this!




NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:01 PM

KRYCIS


Until I hear/read/see anything conclusive, I'll be keeping my tinfoil wrapped around leftovers instead of on my head. Anyway... I highly doubt they'll have any queer dial-in authorization process, every product (beyond home security) I know of has moved away from it.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:09 PM

HOWARD


(CENSORED FOR ALLEGED DUBIOUS CLAIM).
...I am telling you that NEWS CORP who own Fox
have made it perfectly clear this is what they
want and why they backed SONY.

As I have stated they will not reveal this
aspect until they have achieved a foot hold
among the more go-along type consumers.

All aspects of home entertainment ARE going
this direction. The IS the big corporate plan.

You can make ridiculing remarks but you need to
understand the technology exists to constantly
update the codes so no hacking device will be
able to over-come it.

This is the future that the mega-corps want to
impose but of course if the consumers say NO!
they'll have to eat it!!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:27 PM

MOHRSTOUTBEARD


I've read about all about this prior, on The Digital Bits, but it's good to know that the word is getting out to them as need it told.

I think region encoding has always been a bit bollocks, frankly, but at least there were easy ways to circumvent it. But the thing these companies fail to realize is: what if something isn't available in a certain region? A year or so ago, I bought Spaced from Amazon.co.uk, because it's only available in Region 2.

The way things are currently heading, this might be impossible in the future. With control of my player wrested violently from my hands, I would be forced to retreat to the seedy underbelly of the Intertron to download my fill of British comedy, just to stick it to the Man. Of course, in this hypothetical situation, I'd probably divy up the price of the DVD and send a little bit to Simon Pegg, Jessica Stevenson, et. al. through clandestine means, but, obviously, this just illustrates the silliness of the whole situation.

Tycho over at Penny Arcade wrote a good news post recently regarding software anti-piracy measures, and how they only end up messing with the consumer, rather than the pirate (yarr), and I think it applies to pretty much any media:

Quote:

Someone needs to emphasize this in such a way that the right people see it: people who pirate software enjoy cracking it. The game itself is orders of magnitude less amusing. And their distributed ingenuity will smash your firm, secure edifice into beach absolutely every Goddamn time. There are no exceptions to this rule.


I think the only people this copy protection jazz is going to hurt is the consumers. Besides the inanity of region encoding, the idea that the studios might have physical control over your player is kind of creepy, anyway.

------------------
"Remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:30 PM

KRYCIS


Regardless of your dubious background and current employment, I will not be "scared" into a knee-jerk "ZOMG!" reaction. If you have such solid proof that we're going to be dialing in for permission to watch movies for you to post on a back-water fansite, pony up the data. Show us tech specs, or product white papers. Until then, your "theory" is half-baked and anyone with any amount of common sense will leave you to your wiles.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:37 PM

MOHRSTOUTBEARD


Howard's not pulling it out of nowhere. He may be going about it a bit heavy-handed, but it's been talked about and pretty well known on a lot of reputable sites, so there's no need to be so snarky.

From the 9/9/05 update on The Digital Bits:

Quote:

Interestingly, one of the reported reasons that Blu-ray Disc went with a more restrictive copy-protection scheme than just Advanced Access Content System (AACS) is that it only allows for revoking hacked encryption keys on software-based players - not set-top, stand-alone hardware. HD-DVD uses only AACS, while Blu-ray Disc has added the Self-Protecting Digital Content (SPCD) system (which verrifys "the integrity of both the disc and the hardware before playback" and presumably allows the remote disabling of either if said "integrity" is compromised). There are also other content-protection schemes being discussed, including one that would allow future DVD players to recognize watermarks imbedded in the video image of camcorder-pirated theatrical films (and presumably refuse to play burned discs containing such content). It's a fascinating editorial, and it illustrates a concern we've had here at The Bits about these new formats for a while now.

Look... the need for Hollywood to protect its film and TV content from PROFESSIONAL video pirates is undeniable, particularly as better and better quality video is encoded on the discs. But what about your average, well-meaning consumer? Just how intrusive are these measures going to be on the fair use of that content by the rest of us... those of us who AREN'T criminals? That remains to be seen. Also yet to be seen is how willing the studios and manufacturers are going to be to offer consumers guarantees and protections against the excessive or unwarranted use of these copy-protection measures. It's worth being concerned about, lest these new formats turn out to be just another version of Circuit City's Divx, where the industry has as much control over your players and discs as YOU do, even after you've opened your wallets and purchased them. The last thing WE want is yet another scheme where players monitor our viewing habits and report them back to the studios, and where we end up having to rent DVDs from our own purchased collections. Or worse, a system where some of your movie discs (if their encryption keys have been hacked by pirates) can be revoked without your knowledge, so they no longer play normally. In other words, discs you've already paid for and legally own can be made coasters, with no guarantee of replacement, all though no fault of your own. You can bet we'll be watching this issue closely in the months ahead.



It may turn out to be nothing, but then again, it may not.

------------------
"Remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 1:54 PM

KRYCIS


The reason for any snark is purely his heavy-handedness. I have fully envisioned future anti-piracy moving toward tighter controls, but as I stated previously...there are no "check as you go" security formats that have lasted long--as your article points out with CC's Divx. There is no need to fearmonger.

In other words, we're not a herd of mugs. We vote with cash.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:10 PM

HOWARD


It is most interesting how I am somehow
"dubious" when I am one of the few if only
person who identifies himself by my actual
name on this site. How interesting it is
that you feel more loathing toward me than
toward the corporations in the attempt of
trying this on.

Who the bloody hell are you anyway?

It may well be that SONY/NEWS CORP etc
are eager to con the public into this
situation. But if they fail they'll just
tell retailers to punch a code into the
player freeing it up and future players
will work as existing DVD players do.

I do not see why I am being heavy handed.
I was just telling it like it is and giving
some examples.

FEARMONGERING has nothing to do with it!!!

There is a difference between raising an issue
for discussion and fearmongering.

As I stated this situation already exists with
the PC. MICROSOFT knows every website that you
have ever visited via your PC.

They know your cookie!




NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:16 PM

HOWARD


MOHRSTOUTBEARD

Thank you for your articulate and thouhtful
response. Yes you are correct. It just hurts
consumers. In theory it could wreck DVD which
would hurt them too. So the control freakery is
quite mad.

Are they pushing us toward the WEB?

In a few years 60mgb broadband will be common
place. Capable of HD downloading.

I still prefer a nice prerecorded disc with
the packaging though.

I think they want to end cost of physical
manufacturing. An iMovies version of iTunes
means no production. Fewer jobs. A far worse
economy.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:28 PM

HOWARD




Like with any issue the future can be altered
from some mad corporation's plan. If we reject
it they'll have to change it.

HD DVD also works this way. But if the HD DVD
camp (who are now losing the war before the
first battle) were smart they could make this
their campaign issue. They could dumb external
control and launch a ad-prop campaign about
their competitor's system.

In my opinion this is the only strategy that
the HD DVD camp has left but I doubt if they
will use it. They were planning the same but
they could change track and be the format that
respects the consumers privacy and rights.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:10 PM

N0SKILLZ


As someone pointed out Tycho from Penny-Arcades post, the people who crack them are good at it.He also points out that the DVD version of F.E.A.R , on some computers, can't be installed at all because of copy-protection, Yet i've seen it posted on the internet a week before release.

Recently I've found a copy of Serenity that was almost DVD quality.

There will always be cracks and workaround for copyright protection. With Blu-Ray authenitcating(sp?) over a phoneline or broadband, i'm sure someone on the inside of SONY or whoever would be connected to, will find out how to fool the DVD into playing without actually connecting anywhere.

I have faith that people with more talent in the hacking/cracking business will find a way for me to play my DVDs (legal or not) without having to be tethered with a phoneline.

And while I think of it. What makes us so sure that Blu-Ray will even catch on? With all this stuff thats being said about it, why would people like us (the techsavy consumer) would even buy something like that? I know, that if there are two High-Def DVDs on the shelf, i'ma pick the one thats easiest to view. I know here in guam, internet/cable goes down all the time. What if I wanna watch the movie, but can't authenitcate to make the movie play, but my broadband is down and it can't connect? What do I do then... start at my staticy TV?

Alright, i'm done ranting since i'm not even sure where i'm going with all this.



-----------------
"It's not that there HAS to be a sequel. It's just that I've got so many IDEAS..."-Joss Whedon
*Andersen AFB, Guam*

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:25 PM

HOWARD


Problem is so far both formats have said
two things that the existing system of
region coding is to be dropped but at the
same time they are claiming to the studios
even "better" control.

Here in the UK Rupert Murdoch/NEWS CORP
SKY television is in about 10 million
homes. Of whom an educated guess would be
about 2 million have SKY dish and receiver
systems as a result of taking up a SPECIAL]
OFFER. Which goes like this they have to pay
a £40 installation fee but get the receiver
and dish for "free". They then have to sign
a contract that obligates them to subscribe
to a premium package for two years or whatever.
There is also a clause in this contract which
demands that the receiver is connected to a
phone-line 24/7. No phone line no service!!
This is a reality in a couple of million
British households. Not a SciFi theory about
the future this has been going on since around
2000.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:25 PM

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG


I have two plans for this:

1. Not buy either, they seem completely pointless. What can't be done on DVD?

2. Not plug my DVD player into my phone line.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:27 PM

HOWARD


No that is not true BLU-RAY can do a lot
existing DVD cannot.

But here is the thing. You are presuming
that SD DVD what you have now will just
continue. But for how long?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:29 PM

HOWARD


Are you using a PC or MAC to type on this
post?

My point is the day you bring home a PC
you cannot use it until you register with
Microsoft. You have to click "I AGREE" if you
click "I DISAGREE" you can't use your PC.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:43 PM

HOWARD




Check out this link it contains the smoking
gun. You need to understand that these
executives are slick and will not say anything
that is too literal in terms of what the
consumer will have to put up with.

But any engineer would tell you that the
smoking gun paragraph can only mean what
I have said...

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news.php?newsId=1487

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:54 PM

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG


SD DVD will continue for the simple reason that HD DVD is only good for software, for movies it can hold more special features, it can have more commentaries but they find enough trouble filling a 4.7gb DVD with special features, let alone a 50gb one. Give people an improvement like DVD over VHS and they'll flock to it, an improvement like HDDVD over DVD is pointless.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 4:35 PM

MOHRSTOUTBEARD


Quote:

Originally posted by chronicthehedgehog:
SD DVD will continue for the simple reason that HD DVD is only good for software, for movies it can hold more special features, it can have more commentaries but they find enough trouble filling a 4.7gb DVD with special features, let alone a 50gb one. Give people an improvement like DVD over VHS and they'll flock to it, an improvement like HDDVD over DVD is pointless.



I loves me some standard definition DVDs like a mofo, but saying that HD-DVD isn't an improvement over them is just ignoring the obvious.

They really don't have a problem filling 4.7 GB of DVD. Why do you think The Lord of the Rings extended editions are spread over so many discs? It's because they're trying to get the best quality video with the least amount of compression, which is often difficult. With HD-DVD, they'll need less compression, because they'll have much more space. Not to mention the fact that HD-DVDs have a much larger image resolution (I'm not sure exactly what it is, but it's a certainly a leap over the current 720x480 NTSC resolution). Basically, all of this spells a format that has clear improvements over the current one.

Of course, a lot of this won't be as evident on a normal television, which most of us have, but, to paraphrase Jackie Treehorn: wave of the future, Dude.

------------------
"Remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 4:44 PM

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG


I'm not saying it's not an improvement, I'm saying it's a pointless improvement.

Lord of the Rings is a special case, each extended version was essentially 2 films. One movie and one making of movie. But the point is, that's three movies. HDDVD lets you put all that one on disk but even then you've still only filled 1/10th of the available space. Hundreds of DVDs are released every year. What about non-epic movies, what are they going to do with it?

My point really is why would people want it. By the time your average Joe has a TV big enough to notice a quality difference something new will be along better than Blu-Ray, something which (hopefully) isn't just an improvement over the current system, but a new system worth upgrading to.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 4:56 PM

MOHRSTOUTBEARD


I'm not sure if you realize how huge uncompressed video and audio can be. They are going to want to use as little compression as possible to maintain clarity, and the larger resolution, while providing an obvious boost in image quality, also means there's going to be more picture, which means more space taken up on the disc.

------------------
"Remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:01 PM

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG


I'm not talking about what the producers want to do with the format, I'm talking about what people are willing to fork over money for. Why would anyone pay money to get better picture quality on a TV where they can't tell a difference? If they wanted to Silverbit editions DVDs would be selling a lot better than they are.

Yes, HD will be a nice niche market for hollywood, but I don't see it becoming the medium of choice.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:02 PM

SAMWIBATT


Does anyone here remember Divx?

Not the Mpeg4 video codec, but the thing it was mockingly named after (IIRC)? This sounds just exactly like it.

If you don't remember it, there's a good reason - it disappeared almost overnight because it was such an anti-consumer pain in the ass. I wouldn't count the new round of format wars over until it's played out a bit. If two formats are introduced and one punishes legitimate users and the other doesn't, the one that doesn't will win. If the only choice is annoying crap, it'll fail. DVD already exists and if the anointed "replacement" is annoying, DVD will stay on top.

On edit: clearly a couple people do remember it, and I didn't read the thread carefully enough. Pardon me. I stand by what I say & agree with the others.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:06 PM

LOGGERHEAD


As long as there are Chinese it will not be an issue. If there is one thing they are good at, it's breaking encryption/protection schemes.

As soon as it comes out these guys will defeat it. Maybe even before it comes out.

http://www.dvdidle.net/dvd-region-free.htm

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:36 PM

HOWARD




SD is a max of 10MEG of video

an HD broadcast is 27Meg of video

BLU-RAY is needed to fit HD movies onto
a disc.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:39 PM

HOWARD


Yes it was FOX/NEWS CORP who were pushers
of DIVX and now they want to get that in
via the backdoor. So after a few years
they'll start charging for viewings of
discs you already own beyond a number of
plays.

SD DVD has a limited intended life-span.

SONY murdered LASERDISC in the run up to DVD
because they can't stand competition.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:45 PM

HOWARD




nice link but you are missing the point.

"renewable security" instead of Region coding
is designed precisely to stop that.

Region coding is easy to bust but "renewable
security" won't be.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:49 PM

HOWARD




Both front projectors and rear projection
sets as well as panel screens are very
popular already and they will show the
improvement.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 7:13 PM

THEGREYJEDI


Quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
Are you using a PC or MAC to type on this
post?

My point is the day you bring home a PC
you cannot use it until you register with
Microsoft. You have to click "I AGREE" if you
click "I DISAGREE" you can't use your PC.




Hi, Howard? Just need to point out a few things.

1) You're stupid. Fear! Control! Goverment and the man are out to steal your tv and your brainwaves! Oh noes!

2) The I AGREE ot I DISAGREE is just the End User Lisence Agreement(EULA). Not registration. Not activation.

3) You do not have to register Windows to use it. merely activate it. This means that you do not have to volunteer any personal information to use Windows, merely a working product key. Which can be worked around if you know what you're doing.

4) I bet you're the kind of person that freaked out when they wanted to take your tapes away, aren't you?

5) The average consumer is too retarded to plug in a regular VCR, much less a DVD-player. Even more less one that requires a telephone jack. I'm so not worried about this for a second. But then, I don't wear tin-foil hats to keep the government aliens from reading my thoughts. After all, I'm one of those government aliens. My thoughts are safe.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Chief Engineer - USS SereniTREE
http://tomeofgrey.blogspot.com
http://www.cafepress.com/thegreyjedi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 7:25 PM

INSANITYLATER


Something to think about, Sony developed the BetaMax too...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Serenity NOW!!! ... Insanity later."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:12 PM

TUDYKRAWKS


is it me or is the solution to this possible problem easy as pie, don't plug in the phone/hig-speed jack? y can't u do that?

"mine is an evil laugh"

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:15 PM

RUNA27


Quote:

Lord of the Rings is a special case, each extended version was essentially 2 films. One movie and one making of movie. But the point is, that's three movies. HDDVD lets you put all that one on disk but even then you've still only filled 1/10th of the available space. Hundreds of DVDs are released every year. What about non-epic movies, what are they going to do with it?



They'll add a bajillion more commentaries, games, music videos, and fan tributes, or more dubs and subtitle tracks. Current DVDs have these things all the time, but even with high-quality compression tech, you can only fit so much on a 4.7 GB disc (for instance, DVD programming allows for up to eight audio tracks and 32 subtitle tracks on the same video, but even big-name international releases tend to have one, two or three audio tracks, about the same in subtitle tracks, and maybe a commentary track or two, and a few other disc extras. Now, in America about a bajillion languages are studied or spoken naturally by immigrants and families of immigrants... you'd think that including as many subtitle and/or dub tracks as possible would be benficial, but you almost never see the German dubs - damn near everything gets dubbed into German, trust me - on North American DVDs, even when the German dub is produced in time for it such as when its theatrical release coincides with the original American one). You'd be surprised how much space good-quality video takes up. Most standard DVD format DVD-R or DVD-RW discs are labeled as being for "up to two hours of [high-quality/low-compression] video". You can fit much more nowadays, but unless you've got some seriously shiny tech (which you can apparently get for "only" a few hundred dollars on the low end), you're not going to be able to fit very much.

As someone who hopes to someday get into filmmaking and is crazy for DVD extras, I can assure you, if there were a consumer-friendly, widely-adopted disc format that would allow more room for other audio or subtitle tracks and more extras, I would jump right on it if I could. Note I say "consumer friedly" and "widely adopted", which I cannot personally say that any format is until it's been introduced and time-tested in the real world's consumer culture.

But are you kidding? You could include games and a bajilliion audio commentaries and all sorts of neat things in anamorphic widescreen with a whole bunch of audio and sub tracks. You could even include footage of premieres, or of the orchestra recording the movie score, or audition tapes (like the one for Alan Tudyk on the Firefly box set), more featturettes... would it take a bit longer? Yes. But is it probably worth it to create an uber-enhanced special edition for the fans? If you care that much about your fans and/or your fans' wallets it is.

I'm reserving judgement until I've seen Wired look into this (if they have before now, I haven't seen it, just basic updates on the state of both techs), or some other well-established news group, TIME magazine maybe. Call me a wary cynic or call me an optimist, but I don't think they'd be that stupid, or that such stupidity would be all that successful at least. I'll decide what's what when I've got verifiable proof beyond the rants of a few people on the net that this is how it's going to be, rather than how the studios hope it'll be.


-Runa27



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:19 AM

HOWARD



No the system will require clearance to use
it or will not activated unless the phone line
connection/modem or whatever is sensed as active.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:22 AM

HOWARD



When you buy a PC in order to be able to
use it you have to register with MICROSOFT
if not you cannot go on line and do many other
functions. This is the real world not some
navy boy fantasy land.

Be careful who you call stupid Mr.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:27 AM

HOWARD


One of the worst aspects of current DVD
is the sound. When we went from LASERDISC
to DVD we lost PCM sound on movies.

BLU-RAY will have MLP capable of decoding
even higher than CD.

What do you think "renewable security"
means when the NEWS CORP/FOX executive
uses that term regard BLU-RAY anti-piracy?
The control coding can only be renewable
if it is constantly updated and that means
a phone-line conncection with the new form
of region coding being off-disc.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:35 AM

N0SKILLZ


sorry i live in a fanatasy land where i build my own computers and don't buy crap computers where I pay to much for a crappy operating system, where i can't do anything fun w/o it

not to say i don't use it... i just don't pay to much..,

-----------------
"It's not that there HAS to be a sequel. It's just that I've got so many IDEAS..."-Joss Whedon
*Andersen AFB, Guam*

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:35 AM

N0SKILLZ


ooops

-----------------
"It's not that there HAS to be a sequel. It's just that I've got so many IDEAS..."-Joss Whedon
*Andersen AFB, Guam*

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:40 AM

HOWARD



That is all fine but I am talking about
what happens when the average person brings
home a PC from a store.

Also scroll back and see what I wrote about
SKY receivers in the UK.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:18 AM

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG


Quote:


You'd be surprised how much space good-quality video takes up



This has been said to me a few times on this thread so I'd just like to clear something up. I am a media student working on his own amatuer films, I have some experience decoding and encoding to DVD and I know how much quality is lost for space reasons. I am a new technology and movie obsessive, before DVD I owned about 100 videos, I now own over 400 DVDs many of which are making-of's and movie making documentaries. I will buy a DVD specifically for the special features as often as I'll buy if for the movie. But I still don't plan on upgrading.

Quote:


But are you kidding? You could include games and a bajilliion audio commentaries and all sorts of neat things in anamorphic widescreen with a whole bunch of audio and sub tracks.



I'm not doubting the possibilities of HD, I doubt people are going to rush out and buy HD on the promise of 'DVD with more'. Unless it's cool stuff like 'crazy hobo' commentary, 'Bruce Campbell as Elvis' commentary or 'Jack Thomson tells you why this film is evil' commentary.

Quote:


You could even include footage of premieres, or of the orchestra recording the movie score, or audition tapes (like the one for Alan Tudyk on the Firefly box set), more featturettes...



Which would be nice but aren't going to change the way we view movies in the way DVD did. People bought DVD because they were so different, because of the promise of things they couldn't do with their video players, freeze-frame, zoom, skipping, special features, commentaries. The new selling point seems to be DVD but better. Why would Joe public, a guy who has little to no interest in hearing 'Best Boy commentary', buy it when DVDs look and sound exactly the same on their standard old TV set?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:39 AM

JUBELLATE


Quote:


When you buy a PC in order to be able to
use it you have to register with MICROSOFT
if not you cannot go on line and do many other
functions. This is the real world not some
navy boy fantasy land.

Be careful who you call stupid Mr.




Let's see, the last time I registered a Windows product was oh....say....NEVER. When that window comes up, I just say "Later" and never get back to it. And if you don't believe me, then I must be sending my thoughts out over the net instead of typing on a computer.

The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. – H.L. Mencken

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:50 AM

THEGREYJEDI


Hi. My name is Justin. I work for the Geek Squad, y'know, the computer guys over at Best Buy? Part of the duties we perform is what is called a New Computer Setup. That's where we click through all the little things you have to do to get a computer from start-up to Windows as normal. Not once have we ever had to enter the customer's personal information to get Windows XP OR the internet to work. How do I know this? because we are able to run windows updates WITHOUT registering Windows. Activate, yes. But again, all that requires is a valid product key. NOT your name, address, phone number etc. But that's here in the US. Don't know about Outer Retardia where you live.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Chief Engineer - USS SereniTREE
http://tomeofgrey.blogspot.com
http://www.cafepress.com/thegreyjedi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:54 AM

RUNA27


The extra features stuff I mentioned? I didn't say everyone would start doing it more just because of HD or Blu-Ray. I just said that that would make it worth it, IF, and only if, it was consumer-friendly (having to buy a license for something you already bought, for instance, is not "consumer friendly") and widely-adopted.

Because it's going to be really expensive at first, it'll probably be a while before your average Joe Consumer buys into either format. I believe both formats also allow for older DVD discs to also be playable on them, though, so many people who are buying a DVD player for the first time, assuming the tech doesn't tank, will probably buy it because both the new and old formats will work on it (in theory, at least).

Assuming it's remotely consumer-friendly and does support older discs, I might EVENTUALLY buy into one of the formats... once the price goes down and there's been time enough for any loud backlashes against components in the tech to have occured (or if I ever break down and buy the PS3). Either way, I'm reserving judgement until the final product is actually released and has probably been out for a while.

Quote:

Which would be nice but aren't going to change the way we view movies in the way DVD did. People bought DVD because they were so different, because of the promise of things they couldn't do with their video players, freeze-frame, zoom, skipping, special features, commentaries. The new selling point seems to be DVD but better. Why would Joe public, a guy who has little to no interest in hearing 'Best Boy commentary', buy it when DVDs look and sound exactly the same on their standard old TV set?


You do make a good point. Although actually, even though my set is 20 years old (older than me!), high-def video and audio really do sound and look a shade better even on it. That said, true high-def is overrated. I still remember reading a post-Oscars article in the newspaper that was all about how OMG IF YOU HAPPEN TO BE ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE WITH HIGH DEF SETS, YOU COULD SEE SUCH AND SUCH VAPID CELEB HAD ZITS!!!11 I don't need to see people's zits in higher def.

I think that for a long while, at least, traditional DVD will still beat it out, since both the new and older players will be able to play them (and hence, you'd be publishing to a wider audience). They might, however, go down in price a little, which would be nice.

Oh, and I'm definitely with you on the extra features. Often, my decision to buy one title or another isn't "do I really like this series?" but "I really like this series... OOH! Audio commentary with Jane Espenson and [insert a few other random extras like gag reels or featurettes or deleted scenes]! SOLD!" One nice thing about this is that it often feels like you're getting more for your money, especially when the commentary is as enjoyable or more than the movie (such as the commentary on Manga Video's release of the Evangelion movies, which is HYSTERICAL. Not the movies, they're some of the most mind-bending, violent, depressing flicks ever made, but the commentary by people who had to work on the thing for so long and then just had to start laughing or they'd go nuts... liek comparing the Mass Produced EVA units to "The Shmoo" or a "transvestite whale", or noting that oneof of them had while in Tokyo seen a poster with all the characters smiling and holding a brand of canned coffee drinks: "It's the official coffee of the apocalypse! Serving all of your post-apocalyptic caffeine needs." I... just... so, so entertaining. The commentary alone was worth the $20 I paid for the second DVD - I won the first volume in a contest, but had I already known about the commentaries, I would still have gladly paid $20 for it).


-Runa27

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:13 AM

HOWARD



It is not unusual for American companies,
products and services to be able to get away
with greater audacity in foreign markets.
Consumer rights are stronger sometimes in the
USA so they screw the rest of the world
instead.

But that is changing. Things are getting worse
at your end now and a little better at ours.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:26 AM

HOWARD


For the record the only thing that is unique to
DVD is the ability to put entire TV seasons into such a small package.

ALL the other features and MORE existed or
could have existed on LASERDISC for 20 years
before DVD.

LD did not have anamorphic widescreen but that was
a corporate decision NOT a technical limitation.

Direct access to a favourite scene was far more
direct and easier on LASERDISC and there was NO
region coding. Plus superior sound in either or
both FM and Digital form.

DIRECTOR'S COMMENTARIES began on LASERDISC and were of a higher intellectual mindset because it
was niche market not mass market so academics would do film analysis on Criterion discs etc.

When DTS sound came out it ran on LASERDISC at 1:4meg (1,400KPS) as opposed to the applied level on DVD of a mere 720KPS or less.

While regular digital sound on LD was CD quality
16 bit and the analogue sound on LD was pure
uncompressed full dynamic range sound that gave you everything that was on the master.

By the way LASERDISC was around before VHS !!

In the 1980's in Japan there was even an analogue
HDTV version of Laserdisc called The Muse system.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:45 PM

THATWEIRDGIRL


Okay, this is a fun little debate y'all have going...but I think we're all missing the point here. It doesn't matter. Anyone remember when the music industry tried to 'update' our technology? Yeah. Anyone buy that? Nope.

We're going on-demand. Can anyone say Windows Media Center? It's gotten a lot better over the last year. In fact, it's pretty great now...and I hate microsoft. The 360 combined with media center is going to be huge. The new imac and front row software? Same thing....Apple has added video to it's store. It's just a matter of time before the mini has the same media software...I mean how cool would that be: a slim mini sitting near your DLP in the living room...shiny.

It's not Bluray and HDdvd you have to think about: it's mac or ms.

btw. it's just a matter of finding a machine that 'forgets' to verify...it'll look like a bug.


www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
"...turn right at the corner then skip two blocks...no, SKIP, the hopping-like thing kids do...Why? Why not?"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:58 PM

DREAMTROVE


I think that this is basically correct, the movie companies are trying to monopolize content, and it has nothing to do with copyright. This is what happened with regions.

But there is another side to it. They're dumb. These format wars are dumb. Conventional media it seem to me is in serious trouble. It's getting damn near extinction. I often use the expression when I think someone is using an unwise tactic, "They're shooting themselves in the foot." In this case I think they've got a submachine gun aimed at their foot.

Digital internet video is a serious threat which is just going to grow. Threat for them, yay for us. If they try to shut down access to information, which they will apparantly, we will just get it elsewhere.

Consider this: The avg new laptop, about 600-700 dollars is already capable of playing a dual layer disk and has a built in 1080i WS capabale screen. To purchase this kind of system in home entertainment, both player and tv, you're setting yourself back about $2000.

In addition, there will be more and more bandwidth available. I know people around here, which is the middle of nowhere, getting 1MB, 2mb, 4 or 8mb dedicated lines. If a server supports this, there will be a capacity for some pretty high quality video for download.

Okay, everyone saying piracy, dadadadadada, but: In the not too distant future Joss will be able to set up an internet broadcast HDTV that we all can play for a pay for DL sort of scenario. In this scenario, we would go to Joss' own page, where he would be selling the content directly to us, and we'd pay $1 an ep or something to DL it.

Not market viable? Think od this. In order to support the show through advertising, Joss needs 4-5 million viewers. In order to support it through a pay for DL model, he'd need 2 million.

Furthermore. Who doesn't pay $40, $50, $60 or more for cable these day? But the avg. fan watches only 6-8 programs regularly. So if you could get those for $1 a piece each week, or $4 a month, you might easily be cutting your cable bill in half.

All that's needed for this to work is the bandwidth to be in place. I'm increasingly convinced that this will happen, quite possibly within the next 3-5 years.

All of which doesn't help us get firefly today, or get around the blu ray issue, but it ought to be a serious concern for the media companies, but just like the radio companies getting broadsided by television, inspite of the oncoming internet train, HDTV/DVD seems to be having a fist-fight on the tracks.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:17 PM

HOWARD


I see THATWEIRDGIRL so you think a music download at what 300KPS ? 200KPS? 125kps? is
"pretty great" do you?

A redbook standard CD runs at 1,400KPS and even that does not match the best of analogue be it a reel to reel or audiophile vinyl LP or an FM track on a Laserdisc or pre-optimod FM radio of the late 1960's early 1970's the quality of which was beyond anything today's teenagers have ever heard or dreamed of.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, October 26, 2005 10:21 PM

HOWARD


DREAMTROVE you have the right idea but wrong
numbers. In the academic world they already
have 100meg broadband. In the consumer world
in France and South Korea people already have
22meg broadband though in performance you have
to always half what you have for the reality.

When people have 50meg broadband and its only
a few short years off you will then be able to
download 30meg HiDef movies.

Personally I still prefer the civilized
presentation of a prerecorded product.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:28 PM

THATWEIRDGIRL


You should now I own both a turn table and a reel player. I like good sound. I can appreciate media.

Here's the thing...I'm thinking the future of media. I'm not thinking next month or next year...there will always be a small demand to own in our hot little hands high quality media. My point is it doesn't matter who wins because the general consumer will soon be downloading on demand content. I don't know how that will play out exactly. Could be a rental type thing or it could be some kind of ownership of the media. In the short term, i don't think it'll matter much. By the time the execs all agree on a format, someone will have something better.

Bluray is producer friendly....anything's crackable.
HDDVD is consumer friendly.

I've been leaning towards BluRay for a while now.


www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
"...turn right at the corner then skip two blocks...no, SKIP, the hopping-like thing kids do...Why? Why not?"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:46 PM

HOWARD



Thank you for your response. Nice to hear.
Well I think a two tier culture is being built
with part of the population using Blu-Ray and
the other
part using a movie version of iTunes.
One high quality one low quality.

HD-DVD is dead already. All studios have
announced their intent to release on Blu-Ray
plus SONY has an edge via PLAYSTATION.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:50 PM

HOWARD





NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

FFF.NET SOCIAL