GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

So...are you going to download it?

POSTED BY: HANOVERFIST
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 07:00
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 28822
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Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:20 PM

HANOVERFIST


Well, are you? To be honest I am mighty tempted.

I saw Serenity multiple times when it was playing, and I am buying the DVD the day it comes out. But it is no longer playing within 4 hours of where I live and I know I would like to see it again in the next couple of months.

No one is certainly going to lose money because I download a copy before I buy it.

What do you all think?


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Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:25 PM

PHYSCHICK


Anything else, probably yes. Serenity, probably no.

First off, I've heard the copy floating around the net kind of sucks. And for some reason I just don't feel as casual about it as I do most TV shows I download (hey, I'm already paying for cable, I just can't be bothered to show up in front of the TV when they want me there).

A friend asked if I minded if he ripped my Firefly DVDs when he borrowed them and I said Yes, I did mind, and he asked five times if I was joking. Um, no. I almost didn't lend them to him.

I also don't think I could because a friend mentioned he had downloaded it, and I was personally offended. I would've taken him to the theatre if he would've said he wanted to see it.

I guess I just want Firefly/Serenity to do well.


ETA: That being said, I know I'm going to want to see it in the next few months as well, and I don't know what I'm going to do about that.

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:36 PM

RIVER6213


What do you mean Download it...download what?

You mean someone has Serenity to download?
Where?

I know someone put all the Firefly episodes in the Realplayer format, and they are available on the internet, but I never knew someone put Serenity online.

Where can i find this?

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:51 PM

MSCKAREN


OK so here's how I rationalized it:

Paid to see movie multiple times + No longer showing in a theater near me + I'll buy multiple copies of the DVD + promise to self to buy a theater ticket (through Fandango) for every time I view it = download

Note: It's a poor quality tape with audience noises included. No way will anybody want this version once the DVDs come out...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've cancelled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."
http://karenallover.blogspot.com/

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:59 PM

ANNIE


I have seen the movie 5 times and will buy at least 2 copies of the dvd. Even if I were to download it because it's nowhere I can reasonalbly drive to at this point, and not saying I am going to download, they are not losing any money off me.
Also bought every bit of merchandise I could pay mu hands on.

Sex and violence on the big screen, where it belongs.

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:00 PM

EVANS


The Centropy VCD torrent for Serenity now requires a password. Search for Centropy on mininova.org.


m.
------------------------------------------------
"But ... not boring, like she made it sound." Wash, in ARIEL
"None of it means a damn thing." Mal, in OBJECTS IN SPACE

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:01 PM

CASSANDRAE


~~~~~~~~~~~
Firefly Fanart: http://mysite.verizon.net/reso9abp/
~~~~~~~~~~~
MAL: "I'll never understand rich folk. All that money, this is what they do with it."
INARA:"It's art."
Mal: "It's puppets."
Inara: "It's puppet art."--Heart of Gold, Transcript

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 1:11 PM

VOLUNTEER


Ah, here we are justifying crime due to hard times and having "paid our dues".

Now... who does that sound like?

Heh

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 2:43 PM

LIMINALOSITY


Quote:

Originally posted by Cassandrae:
Personally, I DL to screencap it and for vidding, as I have many ideas for artwork and such. And while the quality of caps isn't fantastic, it will tide me over until the dvd comes out.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Firefly Fanart: http://mysite.verizon.net/reso9abp/
~~~~~~~~~~~
MAL: "I'll never understand rich folk. All that money, this is what they do with it."
INARA:"It's art."
Mal: "It's puppets."
Inara: "It's puppet art."--Heart of Gold, Transcript



I very much like your manipulations, and am almost able to do this sort of thing myself. I need to know where the line lies in all of that, and have yet to see any information regarding use of FF/S images. Do you have a link or any info I can use to determine how far I will want to go down a road of using images. I'm not too tech oriented at baseline, so small word and gif to explain please.

Thanks

moving my easel outdoors

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 2:50 PM

EMBERS


I've seen the BDM 6-7 times,
I think that that will tide me over until the DVDs come out
(are they really coming out Dec 20th?!)

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse!

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 2:58 PM

SEVEREN


I think as long as you also buy the movie when it comes then I dont have any particular problem with you downloading it.

http://www.constitutionparty.com

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 3:01 PM

HOGWAFFLE


I don't think its justifying crime. I'm just saying if you've seen the movie upwards of five times and duh your gonna buy the dvd, if its not available to you in theaters anymore you should be able to download a mildly crappy copy to tide you over.

Hmm I've seen the movie 5 times bought 7 extra tickets so lets see I've seen matinees and night shows so we'll say an average of 7 bucks a pop, 7x12 84 dollars? I think that buys me a crap copy for 3 months till the dvd comes out.

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 3:35 PM

PHOEBE


There's a near DVD copy floating around out there. How do I know? Because I have it.

I've seen Serenity 15 times. I'll buy probably 10 copies of the DVD for various people. Since I can't see it at the cinema anymore, I'm using the download to tide me over till the DVD comes out.

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 4:13 PM

ANNIE


Exactly. I need something to tide me over too.
The nearest theater to me that is still playing Serenity is an hour and a half away. These two or three weeks I really can't afford the gas to go up there for 6th and 7th viewings.
But I'll be all over that dvd the day it comes out.

Sex and violence on the big screen, where it belongs.

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 4:20 PM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION


I downloaded "Team America, World Police."

Then when the movie came out, I bought it (it was only fair).

Does that make me a criminal? Technically yes. But did I do harm? Nope.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 4:44 PM

JAYTEE


According to the Wiccan rede, "If it harm none, do as ye will."

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:19 PM

DREAMTROVE


And someone can freely download my movie when i make one three times. I have no problem with that.

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:59 PM

DOGBUISCUT


I paid to go see it at the cinema, but the series I downloaded. I had no idea of the history of the show at the time, and I'll probably go get the DVDs just to send the right economic messages.

But if I hadn't been for file-sharing, I would never have seen the series in the first place.. It's a double-edged sword.

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 7:09 PM

PHYSCHICK


Quote:

Originally posted by dogbuiscut:
But if I hadn't been for file-sharing, I would never have seen the series in the first place.. It's a double-edged sword.



Yep, I was never around Friday nights when Firefly was on, and also the ads made it look really, really stupid. I didn't watch it until after it had been cancelled. My then-boyfriend-now-husband downloaded the episodes and forced me to watch them (and am I ever glad he did). I've bought the DVD and showed it to so many other people, many of whom bought their own copies. Definitely a double-edged sword.

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 8:16 PM

CASSANDRAE


I am sorry, I don't follow. :bleary looks at clock:

Do you mean copyright? That sort of thing? Far as I know, no, no guideline. But as long it's not commerical use, it should be fine. Now if you do a drawing from a FF/S image, then yes, you can do with it what you will, commerical or not.

I don't claim the images and all, just the art.

Is that what you're talking about?

~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~
MAL: "I'll never understand rich folk. All that money, this is what they do with it."
INARA:"It's art."
Mal: "It's puppets."
Inara: "It's puppet art."--Heart of Gold, Transcript

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 8:20 PM

N0SKILLZ


mine is in the download queqe right now, i'll let you know if its worth it... but of course i'll be buying the DVD at least once (maybe one for my bro)....

-----------------
"It's not that there HAS to be a sequel. It's just that I've got so many IDEAS..."-Joss Whedon
*Andersen AFB, Guam*

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 9:22 PM

LIMINALOSITY


Quote:

Originally posted by Cassandrae:
I am sorry, I don't follow. :bleary looks at clock:

Do you mean copyright? That sort of thing? Far as I know, no, no guideline. But as long it's not commerical use, it should be fine. Now if you do a drawing from a FF/S image, then yes, you can do with it what you will, commerical or not.

I don't claim the images and all, just the art.

Is that what you're talking about?

~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~
MAL: "I'll never understand rich folk. All that money, this is what they do with it."
INARA:"It's art."
Mal: "It's puppets."
Inara: "It's puppet art."--Heart of Gold, Transcript



Yes, and I am also seeing a lot of images people are selling that are pretty directly photoshopped FF images - not painted by the person, nor drawings done from FF imagery. Some are a bit altered, but many not at all. Mostly what I mean is the t-shirts, stickers and the kind of stuff for sale at cafepress. No rules with this? Is that common, or some special Joss thing? Brave new world with pirated images for sale? Thanks for your response.

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 9:34 PM

CASSANDRAE


Well, they're not supposed to be selling them if they're little more altered in PS(images from the show/movie). Cafepress will take them down, they have in the past. Because you're commercializing them, and the images are copyrighted.

Now say, if you do a design of your own creation, inspired by the show/movie. (I am talking something created from scratch in PS or Illustrator)then yes.

I don't know how the rest would apply though. Some would argue that even making art using images from the show and movie for non-commerical/personal use,( wallpapers/blends/art are not allowed.) But that's another long story.

Take 11th Hour's art work(she has a store in cafe press), it's all created from scratch and FF related, so yes, she's allowed to sell and do whatever she wants with her designs.

~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~
MAL: "I'll never understand rich folk. All that money, this is what they do with it."
INARA:"It's art."
Mal: "It's puppets."
Inara: "It's puppet art."--Heart of Gold, Transcript

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 9:53 PM

KAZZAHDRANE


Thanks a lot folks, I thought Browncoats were better than this.

Some of you disgust me. I don't care how many times you've paid to see it at the cinema, you are stealing a movie. You may think it doesn't matter for you if you've seen it a lot already, but every single time someone downloads a movie it sends the message to the people that pirate the movies that "we want you to keep doing this, please supply us with illegal movie goodness". These people think they are cool and clever (if you don't know about the system it's all about "respect") and they're not, they're criminals.

If you can't wait until the end of December to see this film again then buy the visual companion or the novelisation to tide you over. That way Serenity sells more products and Universal are happier with the license.

Sorry for the rant, but this is simple case of right and wrong and people are trying to justify it. You people aren't browncoats to me - you're gorram thieves(and not at all like the BDH in that respect).

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Monday, October 24, 2005 1:40 AM

PHOEBE


Don't be silly. If those who download it go out and buy one, two, ten copies of the DVD then they're harming nobody.

It is not our fault that the movie was pulled from cinemas so quickly, nor that only a region 1 release date has been set (I'm English). We're still sending money - WAY more than most people - to the studios and whatnot.

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Monday, October 24, 2005 1:48 AM

GROUNDED


I'm surprised people can't wait for the DVD to come out to be honest. Think how much more you'll savour that first DVD viewing having waited patiently for it (and for a lot shorter a period than we had to wait for the theatrical release).

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Monday, October 24, 2005 1:54 AM

PHOEBE


We'll still savour it. After all, shaky downloads are no substitute for real DVD quality.

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Monday, October 24, 2005 4:33 AM

WEICHI


As near as I can 'suss this argument out, you'all are such BDFans that you deserve your download cuz your been paying for the movie and your goin to buy the DVD just as sure as your standin here.

Well, this type of thinking damages my calm - we are looking at a new world that might not have room for BDMs if the folks that make em can't see a way for some clear profit.

I know, this argument is a tad upside down - after all our BDH are thieves too, so lets just volunteer up. They are thieves to survive, you'all are thieves for pure selfishness, risking, however marginally, BDMs of any kind in the future.

I dont doubt the sincerity of the thieves that are posting. I dont doubt their honesty about buying the movie. I appreciate their candor, you know, not much, but I appreciate it.

These download sites must feed egos or make money somewhere, and helping their volume helps them exist for all those "bad thieves" as opposed to you principled ones, folks might-would've GONE to our BDM let alone bought the DVD if you'all hadn't helped them with a plan of the bank.

But its a rich bank, and it ain't any of our money, so nobody raise a fuss.

Recall the rush on the bank scene in "Its a Wonderful Life" where George Bailey tries to save the Building and Loan, and with it, his town, with $2000 of his honeymoon money? Who would you rather be?

Tom -"I got 242 dollars here, and 242 dollars isn't going to break anybody"

or Mrs. Davis "I'll take $17.50"

I always wanted to be a Mrs. Davis sort, you know, were all in this together and such, and that was before Mal explained the advantages of dresses and air circulation.

Anyway, ramblin on here, I hope I've made my point, such as it is. This may be another "kneecap" area of vagueness, but I expect Book would make room in the special level of hell for you folk.

See how I'm not punching him, I think I've grown!

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Monday, October 24, 2005 5:01 AM

KAZZAHDRANE


Just for the record I live in Scotland, so I'm also a region 2-er with no confirmed DVD release date.

This is still theft, and I'm glad to see some people like weichi understanding my points.

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Monday, October 24, 2005 5:34 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Nope, not going to download it. I saw it again this weekend. It is less than two months to the release of the DVD so I can wait.

I would hope that downloading is very minimal & than only by people who want to watch it first to determine whether or not they want to commit to buying the DVD. I would hate to see low DVD sales #s & lose a chance of a future for Serenity because people decided to download it.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org


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Monday, October 24, 2005 8:41 AM

HANOVERFIST


If you are buying the RIAA and MPAA line that piracy is hurting profits then you might want to do a bit more research. A handful of people (or even tens of thousands) are not going to hurt this film's bottom line.

So why is downloading something wrong? Because it takes food from the mouths of all the starving artists in Hollywood? Gimme a break. Is it wrong just because it says so in some lawbook somewhere? In Texas, oral sex is still technically illegal. If that is wrong I don't want to be right! Is downloading something wrong because it is stealing? Well, what is stealing then? If I download a movie, the movie is still in the possession of the original owner. I have only made a copy. So am I paying for the priviledge of viewing it; for the experience? So should we then buy licenses for entertainment: i.e. we buy as many licenses as there are people in our family?...because we are paying for the experience, not the actual media and film. Sounds like a mess to me.

Or do you say it is wrong because it runs contrary to your perceptions of how 'your' film should be treated. Trust me, downloading Serenity will do nothing to the bottom line, except possiby help it because it gets the word out. (Viral marketing?) If there are even millions of pirate DVDs in China, it is not like they are buying the movie INSTEAD of seeing it thatrically. They probably would just not watch it at all. How does that help the BDM?

So I propose the question again...Why exactly is downloading this movie wrong if you have paid to see it in the theaters, can no longer see it in a theater, and you are going to buy at least one copy of the DVD when it is released? What is being thieved?


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Monday, October 24, 2005 9:25 AM

WEICHI


Responding to HanoverFist. Yeah, I think you do need to buy "a license" to view things - its called a ticket or a DVD.

Look, I do not pretend to know the economics of all this - but clearly some of those who download stuff do so instead of buying a ticket or buying a DVD. So, you must admit that those folks are stealing, right?

So going through the trouble of providing downloads is encouraged by each and every person who downloads - so even the most Robin Hood of theives is making it more attractive for folks to provide downloads, leading to more folks downloading instead of buying.

That is where I see the harm. I doubt either one of us knows the actual costs, but I suspect the Studios have an idea, and they don't seem too pleased that it is going on.

Maybe that is part of the reason Universal is releasing "King Kong" on DVD and in the theaters at the same time? Sell the impatient a DVD before they steal it online.

Its very convenient to claim you have no impact. That way you have no personal responsability.




See how I'm not punching him, I think I've grown!

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Monday, October 24, 2005 10:13 AM

YORG


Ok I think I understand what's going on.


If a friend asks to borrow a movie/cd/game that's ok, because you're just lending it to them/sharing.

But if your friend downloads a movie/cd/game it's stealing, because it came from the internet.

If you invite 10 friends over to watch your brand new dvd that you bought, it's a party.

But if 10 people download a movie from the internet, it's stealing.

If you want something that's considered "old" (meaning: not popular anymore), you can go to the library and borrow it for free. And that's ok.

If you want something that's consiered "old" and you download it from the internet; then you're stealing.



If it's a matter of *keeping* the property, then there is still no point. If you download it, you can keep it until you're sick of it.

If you borrow it from a friend you can keep it until you're sick of it, or they ask for it back. And later on you can ask to borrow it again as long as your friend is your friend.

But if you copy it, then you're stealing, because watching/listening/reading something is not stealing, but copying it is.


That's where it's funny. Media is intellectual property. Once you're seen/heard/read it, you've seen/heard/read it. You've already taken in that piece of intellectual property.

Examples:

A car is physical property, if you test drive a BMW, it doesn't mean you own it. You have to pay to own it.

A movie is intellectual property, if you watch a movie, then you own the experience. It's in your brain. The only time you pay, is to view it (theatre/dvd).

So if you experience a piece of intellectual property without paying to view it, then you are stealing. If you borrow it from a friend, it's stealing. If you go to a party and everyone watches a dvd together, it's stealing.

Now . . . do you see how stupid it sounds to say that downloading is stealing?




Not that I'm saying people shouldn't be supporting Firefly. I bought the dvd series and will buy the serenity dvd. I won't be downloading it because I have patience. Some things need people's help to thrive (like Firefly), but other things aren't so worthwhile.


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Monday, October 24, 2005 10:43 AM

KELLAINA


First of all, I know you were responding to someone else, but this seems like a good place to jump in, so here I am .

Quote:

Originally posted by weichi:
Look, I do not pretend to know the economics of all this - but clearly some of those who download stuff do so instead of buying a ticket or buying a DVD. So, you must admit that those folks are stealing, right?

So going through the trouble of providing downloads is encouraged by each and every person who downloads - so even the most Robin Hood of theives is making it more attractive for folks to provide downloads, leading to more folks downloading instead of buying.



This is actually what I don't understand about downloading. Who puts the first copy up? Depending on how the film is obtained it doesn't sound easy, and if its being downloaded for free, who is making money off of it?

And yes, it is illegal. I don't think anyone is questioning that, it's more the issue of the harm being done.

Quote:

That is where I see the harm. I doubt either one of us knows the actual costs, but I suspect the Studios have an idea, and they don't seem too pleased that it is going on.


The studio heads are the ones concerned - it's cutting into their huge salaries. If the industry is hurting enough that the regularly paid actors and crew members are at risk of losing money, I'd argue that maybe 30% of a movie's budget shouldn't be going to one actor.

(Does anyone remember those MPAA ads from a few years ago where Ben Affleck talked about how people were being hurt from downloading? It almost made me want to download something, and normally I really like him).

Quote:

Maybe that is part of the reason Universal is releasing "King Kong" on DVD and in the theaters at the same time? Sell the impatient a DVD before they steal it online.


Here's where I disagree completely. Most people who download are going to do so regardless of whether the DVD is available. Why? They don't want to pay for it - at all.

Quote:

Its very convenient to claim you have no impact. That way you have no personal responsability.


In this case, it seems that if you are buying the DVD and seeing the film in a theatre there isn't any impact. The harm/loss to the studio comes from when people download and then DON'T go to the theatre or buy the DVD. 'Cause then they aren't making any money off of it.

Yes, it's justifying something that is illegal, but that's what it is. Same thing if you speed while driving. The majority do no harm. (I realize that the possibility of killing someone is a bit different then stealing a movie but it was the first one I thought of).

Personally, I've never downloaded anything illegally. I like seeing movies on the big screen. BUT I have cause the studios to lose money. Why? Because after years of paying to see absolutely awful movies, I've pretty much stopped going.

So to answer the first question... will I download it? Probably not. But I can understand why many will.

But that's just my $0.02. And apologies for the rambling.

If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. -"Angel"

Browncoat? Canadian? Join us:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/canadianbrowncoats/

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Monday, October 24, 2005 11:21 AM

LIMINALOSITY


Quote:

Originally posted by Cassandrae:
Some would argue that even making art using images from the show and movie for non-commerical/personal use,( wallpapers/blends/art are not allowed.)

Take 11th Hour's art work(she has a store in cafe press), it's all created from scratch and FF related, so yes, she's allowed to sell and do whatever she wants with her designs.
~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~
MAL: "I'll never understand rich folk. All that money, this is what they do with it."
INARA:"It's art."
Mal: "It's puppets."
Inara: "It's puppet art."--Heart of Gold, Transcript


Thanks again.
I like to be on the side of these lines where I haven't done something to upset the artists, or taken any handsfull of dough that should have been theirs, and I haven't done anything that's actionable by the distributor either.
I may use a quote, or start with a framegrab, but it will be Firefly as reflected off my imagination - as your things.
I especially like High Stakes, Mod Inara and Jayne & Kayllee

the OT pirate

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Monday, October 24, 2005 11:39 AM

PHOEBE


Quote:

Originally posted by weichi:
These download sites must feed egos or make money somewhere, and helping their volume helps them exist for all those "bad thieves" as opposed to you principled ones, folks might-would've GONE to our BDM let alone bought the DVD if you'all hadn't helped them with a plan of the bank.

But its a rich bank, and it ain't any of our money, so nobody raise a fuss.



On the contrary. There are VERY few browncoats who downloaded Serenity until AFTER it went off the cinema, i.e. until AFTER people had the opportunity to see it. In fact, Serenity took a LOT longer to be available online than most movies. That's the strong stance we took AGAINST such piracy.

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Monday, October 24, 2005 12:50 PM

GROUNDED


Quote:

Originally posted by yorg:
That's where it's funny. Media is intellectual property. Once you're seen/heard/read it, you've seen/heard/read it. You've already taken in that piece of intellectual property.

Examples:

A car is physical property, if you test drive a BMW, it doesn't mean you own it. You have to pay to own it.

A movie is intellectual property, if you watch a movie, then you own the experience. It's in your brain. The only time you pay, is to view it (theatre/dvd).

So if you experience a piece of intellectual property without paying to view it, then you are stealing. If you borrow it from a friend, it's stealing. If you go to a party and everyone watches a dvd together, it's stealing.

Now . . . do you see how stupid it sounds to say that downloading is stealing?



Lending a book/CD etc. to a friend is permitted under the first sale doctrine (legal folks correct me if I'm wrong). You can lend the item, sell it on, or dispose of it if you want to, but you're not allowed to reproduce it. Downloading creates a new copy of the original file - a reproduction. And in this case the original was an illegal copy in the first place.

When you pay to see a movie in a theatre you are not buying the right to see that movie as many times as you like in the future. If you were, they wouldn't tear off part of the ticket before you go in...

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Monday, October 24, 2005 12:59 PM

R1Z


You folks can rationalize all you want--to quote The Big Chill, "rationalization is more important than sex. When's the last time you went a week witout a rationalizaion?"

Serenity, whether it's a 35mm print, a VHS tape, a DVD or a computer file, belongs to Joss and Universal, and they get to say who gets to watch it. Right now, they say people who buy tickets can see it. You are free, however, to close your eyes and relive the experience as often as you like.

When it comes out on DVD, people who buy or rent the DVD and their guests may watch it. As many times as they like.

It's not a matter of documenting damage to anyone. It's their intellectual property. If they choose to post it on the net for free distribution, you may then download it. Not until then.

If you steal from Wal-Mart, they will never feel the pain, except in the aggregate. If you stage a phoney car crash for the insurance money, no single policy holder will feel any pain. Nonetheless, it's WRONG. It's not yours to take, so get used to it. The courts, the churches and the owners of intellectual property all agree, you can't have it for free. If it was OK, they'd tell you.

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Monday, October 24, 2005 5:57 PM

HANOVERFIST


Quote:

Originally posted by R1Z:
The courts, the churches and the owners of intellectual property all agree, you can't have it for free. If it was OK, they'd tell you.




No offense, but the day I start letting the government, the superstitious and the corporations tell me what is right and wrong without a d@mn good explanation is the day I stopped thinking for myself. You will pardon me if I am not satisfied with the "because I said so" argument.

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Monday, October 24, 2005 6:06 PM

R1Z


Not all owners of intellectual property are corporations. I just finished threatening to prosecute someone who attempted to steal one of my files. It was/is my work product, created by me, on my premises, on my computer, with software I paid for. I agreed to sell him a printed paper copy, not the file. He tried to get the file from the printer, who refused to give it to him and called me.

I can assure you that the file is my property, and no, you can't download it, either. It's mine, and I get to determine who gets a copy.

(edit)
Oh, yeah, because it's mine, and I said so. Nothing you can rationalize will change the fact that taking another's property without permission is THEFT.

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Monday, October 24, 2005 8:31 PM

MER


I will just to watch it again and get my friend to watch it who's interested in it since I finally got him to watch the 9 mins thing thats now on ifilms.com.
^_^;; if anybody knows where i can get an actual copy, pm me.

I plan on buying a lot of Serenity merchandise...so I don't think I'll make Sean Austin cry for downloading the movie...just spreading the word around, that's all.

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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:47 AM

FWIVOT


If you can't watch it in theaters, and you know you are going to buy it on DVD, go ahead and download it. No matter what people might think, your actions are not hurting anyone financially. Now, if you download it instead of buying it, that's a different story. Keep in mind folks, the quality of what you see on the internet at this point cant be very good. Only a moron would download it to burn and keep on his DVD shelf. The big problem comes when the DVD is actually released and people post copies of it on the internet. That's when the thieves come out and download without buying.

..Kevin



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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 4:09 AM

GROUNDED


Quote:

Originally posted by fwivot:
No matter what people might think, your actions are not hurting anyone financially.



Even if that is the case, you're still endorsing piracy.

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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:57 AM

R1Z


Quote:

Originally posted by fwivot:
No matter what people might think, your actions are not hurting anyone financially.



Sooooo--

THEFT is only wrong if it hurts someone financially? I guess if it's insured, it's ok for me to steal your car, because the insurance company will pay for it, and you won't be hurt financially?

How about if I burn the family photo album with the only images of departed loved ones? It has no economic value, so if I deprive you of it, you're not hurt financially.

If you don't know you have money in the bank, is it ok for me to steal it? You wouldn't be hurt financially.

And lets touch on the whole "No matter what people might think" bit. Seems to me that "morals" "customs" & "laws" are actually the aggregate form of what the majority of people think. MURDER is only wrong because the majority of people on the planet agree that it's wrong. How exactly, did you get your exemption from the obligations imposed by "what people think?"

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 7:16 AM

INSANITYLATER


Well, I won't be sayin one way or t'other if'n I'll download it... The Alliance may be watchin'. However, I will buy the DVD when released, then the Special Director's Cut, then the Collector's Edition. As far as it being wrong to "pirate" the movie, I believe that would entail burning and selling it, which would be a no-no. There are other things to consider here. I firmly beleve that Anime would not have such a commercial presence now if the fan sharing had not "got the word out" in the early 90's. The bigger the fan base, the bigger the movement.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Serenity NOW!!! ... Insanity later."

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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 8:11 AM

JINGTSAI


Let me say right up front that I am married to an intellectual property attorney! In general, he thinks--and I agree--that there are problems with the way a lot of law is interpreted and applied to the Internet, simply because it is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. The various arms of the entertainment industry will eventually, I hope, come around to some more appropriate ways of dealing with intellectual property issues because demand and other economic factors will require it. On the other hand, I do think there are good and cogent reasons not to engage in pirating, whether it be file sharing or downloading movies or buying knock-off DVDs off the streets. I do not pretend to know the exact nature or extent of the economic impact of this sort of behavior, but neither do I think there is none at all. Personally, I don't worry too much about the big media corporations, but I do worry about the artists--the writers, actors and others whose stakes are proportionately higher. I also worry about the fact that, human nature being what it is, every time you rationalize an act that is, rightly or wrongly, illegal or immoral, it becomes that much easier to take the next, perhaps less justifiable, step. I believe that a lot of the folks here who plan to download are entirely sincere when they say they plan to buy DVDs anyway and have seen the movie multiple times. More than likely they are not doing significant harm. But maybe they are, and maybe they are harming themselves most of all.

Finally, I also don't pretend to know Joss Whedon's mind enough to judge how he would feel philosophically or morally about pirating under the conditions described. However, I do believe that he would not much care for the idea of lower quality, second-hand copies of his beloved movie out there floating around. So, no, I am not going to download, and I'm already enjoying the anticipation of receiving my purchased DVDs.

JingTsai

"...the stakes are so low, they are higher than we are used to..." Joss Whedon on Serenity

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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 8:35 AM

ANGELCRUSHERD


I find this thread hilarious to be honest. People act like everyone in here is a thief, swindling our Heroes out of millions. Downloading the movie due to a lack in patience isn't morally wrong, it's life. People aren't perfect, we break down. Serenity is still in theaters here and I'll be buying another ticket this week, but when it disappears from theaters, I will probably download it. Shelling out 10x the amount of a regular theater-goer entitles me to some kind of prize. I enjoyed the movie each time I've been to the theater, but I could've stopped at my second visit and continued my life. The rest of my visits I consider to be investments in the franchise that I love. I'll do anything to have something Firefly in my life, and if that entails downloading the movie, so be it.

And guess what? I'm not going to be fined or jailed or even bothered about it because Joss understands. I've seen his movie more times that should be humanly possible and the money I've invested in the Firefly universe rivals that of my taxes. I don't know how many DVDs I'm going to buy but it will be enough to make me feel like I've adequately imbursed Joss for the seasons of Firefly that he can't direct due to FOX's irrationalistic nature.

I don't think anyone on this board will be pirating the movie without paying enough money elsewhere to equate everything. Everyone complaining about how wrong it is sounds to me like they're just making shit up to whine about. "Oh well I don't know what's wrong with it but it SURELY IS ILLEGAL!! RIGHT?" Come on kids, wake up and take a look at who we are. Browncoats are Browncoats because we're loyal. Addicted, we need our fix just like every other addict on this planet. As far as I'm concerned, the government can shove off.

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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 8:52 AM

JOYFULGIRL


As long as you buy the DVD when it comes out... I've already got all of my Firefly episodes backed up on my PSP: www.psptransfer.com, so they go everywhere with me, meaning I think I can wait a couple months for the DVD. I just think it's really important to support the show financially, especially because DVD sales are going to be so crucial towards the studio deciding to pick up the sequel/trilogy option.

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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:48 AM

R1Z


Quote:

Shelling out 10x the amount of a regular theater-goer entitles me to some kind of prize.


And you get to decide what the prize is.

And you get to take the prize against the expressed wishes of the people who own that prize.

Aren't you "special!"

And you get to go to the "special hell" for ripping off Joss.

You already got your special prize. You got to watch the movie 9 extra times, and the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a phenomenon you love. Nothing more. Read the back of your ticket stub. Nothing there about a free copy of the movie after the 10th viewing, is there?

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:05 AM

ANGELCRUSHERD


Quote:

Originally posted by R1Z:
Quote:

Shelling out 10x the amount of a regular theater-goer entitles me to some kind of prize.


And you get to decide what the prize is.

And you get to take the prize against the expressed wishes of the people who own that prize.

Aren't you "special!"

And you get to go to the "special hell" for ripping off Joss.

You already got your special prize. You got to watch the movie 9 extra times, and the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a phenomenon you love. Nothing more. Read the back of your ticket stub. Nothing there about a free copy of the movie after the 10th viewing, is there?

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein


Can't support your opinion without trying to come across as a condescending asshole? When I download the movie, it will do nothing but provide me with something Firefly to do until the DVD comes out. Joss isn't being ripped off, nobody in the media industry will be out of a job, and most of all, I will still purchase tons of DVDs. I'm not sharing my DVDs with anyone or hosting Firefly parties or letting people copy anything, I'm merely keeping myself occupied while I wait for the DVD. If you find some kind of fault in what I'm doing, refer to the comment about the government in my last post.

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