GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Foreign language used for cursing?

POSTED BY: ARTFULL
UPDATED: Monday, October 17, 2005 19:35
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Monday, October 17, 2005 5:14 AM

ARTFULL


Whats language used for the cursing ? Chinese?

Just wondering what the significance of that is.

Thanks

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Monday, October 17, 2005 5:45 AM

CYBERSNARK


Yup, it's Chinese.

Part of Joss' conceit* for the show is that the last two superpowers from Earth-that-was --and therefore the ones that colonized space-- were the USA and China (which isn't that far-fetched if you take a good look at China's rising economic star). People in the 'verse tend to be fluent in both English and Chinese, though their common speech is a patois that mixes the two.

It's also reflected in culture, with the Companions being based on Geishas.

* "Conceit" in this case refers to the fictional elements used to make up a world. Start with the real world that we all live in, and whatever you add (superpowers, demons, space travel, whatever) is the "conceit."

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, October 17, 2005 5:51 AM

STAKETHELURK


Quote:

It's also reflected in culture, with the Companions being based on Geishas.
While I agree the melding of East & West is reflected in the culture as well as the language, I would like to point out that geishas are Japanese, not Chinese.

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Monday, October 17, 2005 5:59 AM

BALLAD


Quote:

Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
Quote:

It's also reflected in culture, with the Companions being based on Geishas.
While I agree the melding of Eat & West is reflected in the culture as well as the language, I would like to point out that geishas are Japanese, not Chinese.



Nitpicker. ;) True, but picky. lol, j/k

Anyway, I read an article (I think it was in Finding Serenity) putting forth the idea that the 'mix' of cultures that we see in the series is the end result of a blending, and later oppression of Asian cultures in the Alliance. Like, the superpowers merged, but later in the timeline, the Asians were suppressed, which is why we don't see as many...I don't know she said it way better than me. Go read Finding Serenity. ;)

--Ballad

They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot. Now they see the sky, and they remember what they are.

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Monday, October 17, 2005 6:21 AM

ARTFULL


Thanks for your replies. I just watched the bdm this weekend and I'm hooked. There are so many facets to the story line. Really interesting.

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Monday, October 17, 2005 6:59 AM

JASONZZZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Ballad:
Quote:

Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
Quote:

It's also reflected in culture, with the Companions being based on Geishas.
While I agree the melding of Eat & West is reflected in the culture as well as the language, I would like to point out that geishas are Japanese, not Chinese.



Nitpicker. ;) True, but picky. lol, j/k

Anyway, I read an article (I think it was in Finding Serenity) putting forth the idea that the 'mix' of cultures that we see in the series is the end result of a blending, and later oppression of Asian cultures in the Alliance. Like, the superpowers merged, but later in the timeline, the Asians were suppressed, which is why we don't see as many...I don't know she said it way better than me. Go read Finding Serenity. ;)

--Ballad

They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot. Now they see the sky, and they remember what they are.




There isn't anything Asian there except for Chinese. Where are the Hindi speakers, why aren't there any Malay influences? If it's Chinese, stick with Chinese and let's not bastardize the understanding of what's Chinese with other things Asian. If Chinese was one of the superpowers, you can pretty much bet that "Geishas" is not one of those things that gets carried over - because it is uniquely Japanese with at least some thousands of years of its own culture behind it. I don't know if we are insulting the Japanese or the Chinese folks here by lumping it altogether. But at the very least, it's completely ignoramus.



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Monday, October 17, 2005 7:54 AM

BALLAD


Quote:

Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Quote:

Originally posted by Ballad:
Quote:

Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
Quote:

It's also reflected in culture, with the Companions being based on Geishas.
While I agree the melding of Eat & West is reflected in the culture as well as the language, I would like to point out that geishas are Japanese, not Chinese.



Nitpicker. ;) True, but picky. lol, j/k

Anyway, I read an article (I think it was in Finding Serenity) putting forth the idea that the 'mix' of cultures that we see in the series is the end result of a blending, and later oppression of Asian cultures in the Alliance. Like, the superpowers merged, but later in the timeline, the Asians were suppressed, which is why we don't see as many...I don't know she said it way better than me. Go read Finding Serenity. ;)

--Ballad

They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot. Now they see the sky, and they remember what they are.




There isn't anything Asian there except for Chinese. Where are the Hindi speakers, why aren't there any Malay influences? If it's Chinese, stick with Chinese and let's not bastardize the understanding of what's Chinese with other things Asian. If Chinese was one of the superpowers, you can pretty much bet that "Geishas" is not one of those things that gets carried over - because it is uniquely Japanese with at least some thousands of years of its own culture behind it. I don't know if we are insulting the Japanese or the Chinese folks here by lumping it altogether. But at the very least, it completely ignoramus.



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Given the freedom to do so, anarchy will result in an organic organization unto itself.



Maybe you're right, but I can't recall anyone actually involved with the show saying that the Companions were based on geishas. I think it was just a fan assumption. The only mention of geishas on the show were the wobbly-headed dolls. And it's always possible that Joss simply didn't get around to using those 'other' Asian elements. Also, check your grammar on that last sentance, please. It made no sense at all.

--Ballad

They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot. Now they see the sky, and they remember what they are.

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Monday, October 17, 2005 8:21 AM

LADYSHELLEY


Joss on the subject of geishas, from the Visual Companion:

Inara's character originally was a whore, something very Deadwood. My wife said, "Why not do something more in the style of a geisha and make her the most educated person on the ship ..."

~~~~~~~~~~

I think the problem is the issue was confused from the beginning. It may very well be that other Asian cultures would have been highlighted more if the series had continued, but we do get little hints:

If Maidennhead isn't Hong Kong I don't know what else it could be

Look more closely at the large street scenes in Serenity (pilot) and The Message, clothing styles and decoration are from several cultures, not just Chinese

Lady Shelley
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.redhawke.org

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Monday, October 17, 2005 8:56 AM

JASONZZZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Ballad:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Quote:

Originally posted by Ballad:
Quote:

Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
Quote:

It's also reflected in culture, with the Companions being based on Geishas.
While I agree the melding of Eat & West is reflected in the culture as well as the language, I would like to point out that geishas are Japanese, not Chinese.



Nitpicker. ;) True, but picky. lol, j/k

Anyway, I read an article (I think it was in Finding Serenity) putting forth the idea that the 'mix' of cultures that we see in the series is the end result of a blending, and later oppression of Asian cultures in the Alliance. Like, the superpowers merged, but later in the timeline, the Asians were suppressed, which is why we don't see as many...I don't know she said it way better than me. Go read Finding Serenity. ;)

--Ballad

They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot. Now they see the sky, and they remember what they are.




There isn't anything Asian there except for Chinese. Where are the Hindi speakers, why aren't there any Malay influences? If it's Chinese, stick with Chinese and let's not bastardize the understanding of what's Chinese with other things Asian. If Chinese was one of the superpowers, you can pretty much bet that "Geishas" is not one of those things that gets carried over - because it is uniquely Japanese with at least some thousands of years of its own culture behind it. I don't know if we are insulting the Japanese or the Chinese folks here by lumping it altogether. But at the very least, it completely ignoramus.



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Given the freedom to do so, anarchy will result in an organic organization unto itself.



Maybe you're right, but I can't recall anyone actually involved with the show saying that the Companions were based on geishas. I think it was just a fan assumption. The only mention of geishas on the show were the wobbly-headed dolls.




That wasn't my point. What I'm saying is that whatever line of logic and whomever made the assumptions (original and follow-ups) aside, that no one (except for complete idiots) shouldn't be lumping together all of the cultures, countries, people, or anything into one big huge conglomerate and cross referencing them together when we mean to talk about one thing. Is it an assumption or apart of the "known historical timeline" that Chinese is the dominant force or is it all of Asia getting together and forming a super-power (if so, then that bit would be difficult to swallow). If Chinese *is* it, then throwing in this-and-that willy nilly is just completely silly. It can only tell me that there is a complete disregard at the level of the writer on what the different cultures mean and carry with them. Whatever the case, whoever is doing it; I think it's important to know that they are distinct things in different cultures. That these cultures didn't exist as a conglomerate of ideas or motifs to entertain or delight you; they are there (and theirs) to servie as distinctive means to convey the ideas of a people and to identify them with as much as a way to live their lives. Blending them all together into one slurry carries across, at the very least, as saying "I really could careless what country you are from. As long as you fit into the idiotic and romantic notion of what all you *seem* to do"... Just a tad bit ethno-euro-centric...

And it's not just nit-picky to be knowledgeble and understanding about their differences.



Quote:

Originally posted by Ballad:


And it's always possible that Joss simply didn't get around to using those 'other' Asian elements. Also, check your grammar on that last sentance, please. It made no sense at all.

--Ballad

They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot. Now they see the sky, and they remember what they are.



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Monday, October 17, 2005 9:45 AM

ROCKETJOCK


Don't forget, the Chinese influence is taken from a vision of China more than a hundred years in our future even before the exodus from Sol system. Perhaps Hong Kong was the tail that wagged the dog by that point -- and I could see a strong Japanese influence dribbling in under those conditions.

And, parenthetically, while Inara's religion obviously repects Buddha, there was a considerable Hindu influence in the decor of her shuttle. Her faith is probably a syncretic combination, with a heavy input from the more sensual aspects of Hinduism. I see companions as being a kind of non-celebate nun, dedicated to helping others find enlightenment through delight.

"Copy of The Pop-Up Kama Sutra, Zero Gravity Edition--Mine." -- David Lister, Esq.

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Monday, October 17, 2005 10:10 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH


Thanks for clearing this up guys. I was about to post a thread asking about this. I knew they were speaking Chinese but I didn't know why because it's never really mentioned in any of the episodes. There. Now I'm no longer wondering about this all the time.

Is it bad that she makes complete sense to me?

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Monday, October 17, 2005 6:31 PM

MICHAELANGELO


Quote:

Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
That wasn't my point. What I'm saying is that whatever line of logic and whomever made the assumptions (original and follow-ups) aside, that no one (except for complete idiots) shouldn't be lumping together all of the cultures, countries, people, or anything into one big huge conglomerate and cross referencing them together when we mean to talk about one thing. Is it an assumption or apart of the "known historical timeline" that Chinese is the dominant force or is it all of Asia getting together and forming a super-power (if so, then that bit would be difficult to swallow). If Chinese *is* it, then throwing in this-and-that willy nilly is just completely silly. It can only tell me that there is a complete disregard at the level of the writer on what the different cultures mean and carry with them. Whatever the case, whoever is doing it; I think it's important to know that they are distinct things in different cultures. That these cultures didn't exist as a conglomerate of ideas or motifs to entertain or delight you; they are there (and theirs) to servie as distinctive means to convey the ideas of a people and to identify them with as much as a way to live their lives. Blending them all together into one slurry carries across, at the very least, as saying "I really could careless what country you are from. As long as you fit into the idiotic and romantic notion of what all you *seem* to do"... Just a tad bit ethno-euro-centric...

And it's not just nit-picky to be knowledgeble and understanding about their differences.



Easy up there, partner. Also keep in mind that all the cultures from earth-that-was spent the better part of 2 generations aboard ship, making way to the new solar system. There be a lot o' mixin' goin' on for 40-some years aboard those ships. It is entirely possible (as noted by Joss & evident in the show as well as the movie) that while Chinese is by far the dominant Asian influence, other influences such as Japanese, Indian, Malaysian, Middle Eastern, etc. abound.

Yes, Chinese is dominant, but that does in no way mean that Companions can't be an off-shoot of Geisha. The addvert for Fuity Oaty Bars had English, Chinese & Japanese writing in them. The currency has no less than 4 vastly different languages on it (English, Chinese, Arabic & something else that reminds me of cuneiform, maybe surillic(sp?)). Even the people are a mix by the time we get to peak into the verse. Simon & River look as Caucasian as they come, so do their parents, but they have a Chinese surname, Tam. Joss said anything’s fair game.


~
"Hell with this. I'm gonna live!"

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Monday, October 17, 2005 7:35 PM

GORBA916


I like in some episode there's flat-out cowboy-ism (cattle, po-folk, old-western town) and Chinese spoken. Which is ironic because Asian tends to love Country music in their karaoke bars.

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