GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

DAILY TELEGRAPH : SUMMER

POSTED BY: HOWARD
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 08:26
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 6680
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Monday, October 10, 2005 12:20 AM

THELONECROUTON


"I had to learn for real. I did 95 per cent of my own stunts and after I finished work on the movie I felt a lot more powerful. Before, I had been a vegetarian for 10 years, but by the end of shooting I was eating steaks."

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH... take that you leaf-eaters!

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Monday, October 10, 2005 2:34 AM

HOWARD



As a Vegetarian I found this to be more evidence of how character development both on and off screen is sold out and destroyed by the commercial movie system. As for your joy in it well that is the satisfaction of a shallow mind for sure not to mention taking joy in seeing the movie system ruin both a sensitive character on-screen and a sensitive human being off-screen!!

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Monday, October 10, 2005 3:11 AM

XEROGRAVITY


Nonsense. I'm an ex-vegetarian of sorts. Tried it, but could not sustain the physically demanding regimen of real life minus the carbs and protein you get from carnivorous pleasures.

Summer Glau is a ballerina who leapt into acting and took on hardcore martial arts training to become the reaver-owning barbrawling headcase we all know and love (River).

Try beating down a barroom full of hardcore bikers on a fluffy diet of sprouts and spinach leaves. Fight off cannibals (how's that for anti-vegan) on a diet of beans and fruit juice. Spinach worked for Popeye but doesn't seem to cut it in the real world.

Either way, she's still hawt! hubba hubba

XG <-- smitten w/Summer Glau (minus the schizo act)


No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 3:31 AM

HOWARD


Your concept of a Vegetarian/Vegan diet is pure reactionary ignorance. I do not eat leaves (outside of a side salad) and such I have full enriching meals everynight.
Your problem as with most is ignorance on three levels: cuisine and culture and biology.

Human beings are Apes. Which is the most powerful of all Apes? Sharing 98% of our DNA the Silver-back Gorilla. Show me a human carni who is willing to pick a fight with a Gorilla. Gorillas are 100% Vegetarian.

As for Summer Glau her best work was done when she was a Vegetarian.

1. As a Ballerina
2. As an actress and ballerina on ANGEL
3. On FIREFLY

The depth and substance of her work in the above mentioned examples exceeds in artistic and intellectual quality and accomplishment anything allowed by the constraints of a soul-sell-out theatrical blockbuster.



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Monday, October 10, 2005 3:55 AM

MSCKAREN


Well, I'm a vegetarian, too, but I don't think anybody is less of a human being if they eat meat. I suspect Summer was a vegetarian to keep her lithe figure as a ballerina - it probably was not an ethical choice to begin with or, at least, that's my hope. If she DID violate her ethics to make a film then that would be sad.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've cancelled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."
http://karenallover.blogspot.com/

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Monday, October 10, 2005 4:09 AM

HOWARD


She could have taken the more sensible
compromise.
Eating Fish not Meat.
Fish that is wild not farmed has more benefit
without the dangers and disease that come with
meat.
30 years ago...American cinema had substance
while television was considered throw-away and
shallow. Today we have a reverse reality. The
only depth we get from American Cinema these
days is in fact the best of American television
while corporate censorship has reduced
theatrical movies into empty physicallity and
a cross between video games and a theme park
ride.
Why couldn't Joss write River for character
depth as in FIREFLY so that Summer could prove
herself as an actress and not an inter-galatic
ninja or marine?
All of the major studios have the same regime
these days...more physical less cerebral in
order to ensure ideas are at a minimum so to
discourage audiences away from critical
thinking.


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Monday, October 10, 2005 4:11 AM

THELURKER


It is ludicrous to say that the character of River or the person who is Summer were "ruined" simply because of the dietary choices of the actress.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 4:15 AM

HOWARD



THINK DEEPER!!

IT IS A REFLECTION AND ASPECT OF A
BROADER WHOLE!

A SELL-OUT TO A CORPORATE ENTERTAINMENT
REGIME THAT DEVOURS AND DESTROYS ALL THAT
IS GOOD IN OUR CULTURE.


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Monday, October 10, 2005 4:32 AM

FLYINGTAMS


Howard, you clearly have a screw loose - see a head doctor.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 4:38 AM

THELURKER


It isn't about selling out. It's about personal choice. Maybe you're reading something into the story that isn't there. I certainly didn't see any quote from Summer attributing her changing her diet because of any orders from the studio. If you have a quote that contradicts that, please post it here.

Or maybe you're just peeved because someone you admire has a mind of her own and changed it to something that flies in the face of your own philosophy.

And if the "corporate entertainment regime" truly "devours and destroys all that is good in our culture," we never would have gotten our BDM in the first place.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 5:24 AM

GIXXER


Howard. Chill, for goodness' sake. What gives you the right to go calling anyone a sell-out?

I would always have pegged Summer for being vegetarian, but finding that she's normal just makes her even more attractive. (Not that that's strictly possible, or makes any difference at all, of course.)

At first I thought you were being all ironical, but I was wrong. Lack of a balanced diet has removed your tolerance.

If you were invited round for tea (don't worry - there's less than no chance) we'd ask if you were a veggie, and either cook something weird specially for you, or everyone would go bovine, out of politeness.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that just never happens in reverse does it?

Go to dinner at a veggie's place and you'll always get a handful of grass and nuts and something that might or might not be tofu whether you like it or not.

And don't get me started on the aesthetics of wearing sandals with beige wooly socks...






Only Popeye has ever opened cans of spinach and whoop-ass in that order. And he's fictional. And a cartoon.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 5:25 AM

HOWARD


It is interesting how you bias minded
reactionaries have failed entirely to
address the primary issue of the drop in
dramatic substance from FIREFLY to SERENITY.

It is also interesting how you are attacking
me as if I fired the first salvo which I did
not. I was merely responding to the initial
ridicule against vegetarians that first reponder
to the article made.

He did not treat it as merely a personal choice
but as a joyous victory for meat-eaters!!

Go back to the top of the page and follow the
narrative.

I was merely defending my honour!!


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Monday, October 10, 2005 5:25 AM

EMBERS


oh dear, I think the dietary debate is kind of crazy, how often do interviewers every get it right?
she was probably joking.

But that is beside the point IMO,
she is beautiful and talented and I love seeing Summer get the recognition she deserves!

I got to meet her at the second Advanced Screening in Chicago, and she is a beautiful & sweet girl.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 5:28 AM

HOWARD


I have no doubt she is a lovely person
the issues here are broader.

As I already said.

Second thoughts:

That is precisely what I am worried about
people are CHANGED by what they do in showBiz
and the consequences and what they put out to
the public does alter them. I have known rock
stars in my life and seen how changing the art
changes them and how their soul is lost.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 5:38 AM

HOWARD


I agree about her likely joking
but I was not responding to that
as much as I was the belief and
joy in it apparently shown by others.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 5:39 AM

GIXXER


So gorillas are the problem? Some kind of terrifying space-gorillas got loose?

Moody buggers. They're just waiting for you to spill their pint or look at their bird.

Empire State Building, anyone?


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Monday, October 10, 2005 5:40 AM

THELURKER


Quote:

It is interesting how you bias minded
reactionaries



Yes, it's always the others who are bias minded reactionaries and never one's self. The bottom line is that if you subscribe to the idea of free will, it was not Hollywood that "changed" Summer, it was her own Big Damn Choice. The fact that she may enjoy the occasional nice, juicy steak in no way makes her less of a person, regardless of what YOU believe.

Quote:

It is also interesting how you are attacking
me as if I fired the first salvo which I did
not. I was merely responding to the initial
ridicule against vegetarians that first reponder
to the article made.



The first "salvo" was idiotic and should have been ignored. And it also shouldn't have been followed by an intolerant tirade about eating meat "ruining" Summer.

"And that's all I have to say about that." - Forrest Gump

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Monday, October 10, 2005 5:46 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC


Vegetarians scare me.

“The cow looks like me in certain ways, for example it has eyes I can look into and see a soul. The potato does not. The cow thinks like me in a certain way, it’s body is controlled by a brain as mine is and many of it’s responses I can understand. The potato does not think like me, though like all plants the potato plant is able to control it’s body in a way I can only conceive of a brain doing it does not have one. While it responds to harm in a chemical way analogous only to what I call pain, and responds to the threat of it in a way that can only be called fear I do not care.

“It is better to eat the live fetus of a potato plant than the dead rump of a cow.

“Anything that does not look or think like me may be slaughtered, but if it can even be vaguely said to look or think like me it is more worthy of life.”

I don’t like that, it scares me, it reeks of playing god. We go through life leaving a path of pain and destruction in our wakes. Once we thought being a vegetarian was healthy, once we thought it avoided pain. Now we know that it leads to poor bone growth among other things, and that plants can feel pain. (I suppose you could say my definition of pain is too loose, but I can not for the life of me think of another word to describe what they feel.)

No matter what you do you cause suffering and eat either what you like or what is healthy provided it violates neither your religion nor cultural norms. (Don’t eat a dog if you know people who have them for pets, certainly don’t eat the guy next door.)

I once met a vegetarian I could understand, she didn’t like the taste of meat. She was willing to cope with the adverse side effects in order to enjoy her meals, she never once looked at being a meat eater as a bad thing. Nothing wrong with that.

I once heard of a Buddhist monk (I’ve forgotten his name) who began each meal by saying his version of grace, which made sure to point out that the meal, vegetarian of course, was a result of suffering and death.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 5:55 AM

GIXXER


Mr Cynic,

Potatoes have eyes.







(You've got to do that in Jayne's "Pain's scary" tone of voice.)


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Monday, October 10, 2005 6:14 AM

DAWATTICUS


I seen something on BBC where Gorillas were acting like Baboons and chasing little monkey things down and then eating them..... although your point stands in general theyre vegeterians. However, we're supposed to eat meat, anything your not supposed to eat will make you sick, thats the way its worked out.

Plants do "feel" , try watchign some of those timelapse films of plants, getting attacked by weeds etc, they go superslow but when its sped up you can see them reacting, running away, fighting back etc.

PLUS some plants eat meat...

I do however refuse to eat anything that plays fetch :p

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Monday, October 10, 2005 7:26 AM

HAZE


Quote:

Originally posted by Howard:

As a Vegetarian I found this to be more evidence of how character development both on and off screen is sold out and destroyed by the commercial movie system. As for your joy in it well that is the satisfaction of a shallow mind for sure not to mention taking joy in seeing the movie system ruin both a sensitive character on-screen and a sensitive human being off-screen!!



Well said.

I honestly truly hate what has been done to River in Serenity. I hate Hollywood and what it does to people.

The “cool” thing about the Character of River WAS the character of River. The fact she can beat up Reavers is just so much motion.

Im sick. I really am.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 7:38 AM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by Haze:
I honestly truly hate what has been done to River in Serenity. I hate Hollywood and what it does to people.

The “cool” thing about the Character of River WAS the character of River. The fact she can beat up Reavers is just so much motion.

Im sick. I really am.


????
but is River a meat eater? I thought she just eats the synthetic protein food stuff like everyone else?

I don't see what Summer eats as having any effect on what River does or says...

Although perhaps you mean that you assume that JOSS WHEDON is eating meat and getting corrupted?

I'm sorry...you guys (Haze and Howard) are really getting wacko here....
I don't want to be offensive and judgemental,
but I think your attitude toward Summer Glau is offensive and insulting.
JMPO of course

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Monday, October 10, 2005 8:05 AM

HAZE


Quote:

Originally posted by embers:
Quote:

Originally posted by Haze:
I honestly truly hate what has been done to River in Serenity. I hate Hollywood and what it does to people.

The “cool” thing about the Character of River WAS the character of River. The fact she can beat up Reavers is just so much motion.

Im sick. I really am.


????
but is River a meat eater? I thought she just eats the synthetic protein food stuff like everyone else?

I don't see what Summer eats as having any effect on what River does or says...

Although perhaps you mean that you assume that JOSS WHEDON is eating meat and getting corrupted?

I'm sorry...you guys (Haze and Howard) are really getting wacko here....
I don't want to be offensive and judgemental,
but I think your attitude toward Summer Glau is offensive and insulting.
JMPO of course



Me distaste for Rivers more action-orientated role is Serenity has noting to do with her Summer or Joss’s eating habits. And I stand by it.

As for Summers’ decision to abandon her vegetarianism its not fact shes eating meat that bothers me. I don’t consider eating meat wrong. It’s the fact she abandoned a belief she held for so long that worries me.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 8:26 AM

HAZE


Actually I’ll put it to you this way, regardless of whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing a gentleness has died. That’s something to be mourned.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 8:44 AM

GIANTEVILHEAD


Where do people get the idea that being a vegetarian has something to do with belief? I'm a vegetarian, but the only reason why I'm a vegetarian is because I have some problems with my digestion, nothing to do with belief.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Monday, October 10, 2005 8:46 AM

JUBELLATE


Quote:

Originally posted by Haze:
Actually I’ll put it to you this way, regardless of whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing a gentleness has died. That’s something to be mourned.



gentleness!?!?! she shot 3 guys in War Stories and slashed Jayne in Ariel. That's not gentle. She was played out as a mentally tortured individual from the beginning and a tool of the Alliance. That she turned out to be a martial arts assasin is hardly a modifier from the series. She found a strength in the movie she lacked in the series, but she was hardly a meek and gentle being.

And arguing about the goodness or badness of vegetarianism vs. omnivorianism is a no win situation.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 9:57 AM

ODDNESS2HER


Quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
Your concept of a Vegetarian/Vegan diet is pure reactionary ignorance. I do not eat leaves (outside of a side salad) and such I have full enriching meals everynight.
Your problem as with most is ignorance on three levels: cuisine and culture and biology.

Human beings are Apes. Which is the most powerful of all Apes? Sharing 98% of our DNA the Silver-back Gorilla. Show me a human carni who is willing to pick a fight with a Gorilla. Gorillas are 100% Vegetarian.

As for Summer Glau her best work was done when she was a Vegetarian.

1. As a Ballerina
2. As an actress and ballerina on ANGEL
3. On FIREFLY

The depth and substance of her work in the above mentioned examples exceeds in artistic and intellectual quality and accomplishment anything allowed by the constraints of a soul-sell-out theatrical blockbuster.





Actually, our closest genetic relatives are the chimpanzees, and they occasionally eat meat.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 10:21 AM

HAZE


It’s a question of context. When River slashed Jayne and shot those three guys there was noting cool about it. Its was creepy it, it was wrong. The violent aspect of River’s character was something forced on her, something that was done to her. It’s fundamentally wrong and played as such. I completely reject the notion that the fact she can beat people up makes River strong. River was always strong. It was an internal strength. The greatest example being “Objects in Space” in that Episode River showed her true strength, a strength that in no way stemmed from her fists. “No touching guns” Rivers true strength.

In Serenity all that’s out the window in favor of really cool looking fight scenes.

Again I stand by my points. And it makes me very sad.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 10:58 AM

HOWARD



I never said GORILLAS were the closest
I said they were the strongest in body.

Yes Chimps eat meat and are the only
fellow apes who wage war and commit
hideous attrocities.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 11:07 AM

ODDNESS2HER


Quote:

Originally posted by Howard:

I never said GORILLAS were the closest
I said they were the strongest in body.

Yes Chimps eat meat and are the only
fellow apes who wage war and commit
hideous attrocities.



So you didn't. My mistake.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 11:30 AM

HOWARD


That is fine. I think if people read each
other's stuff with clearer comprehension there
would be less arguements. But that is okay too
its healthy.

I love ORANG-UTANS the best they are very
interesting. Like humans they are omnivores.
But they spend most of their lives eating fruits
veggies and small bugs. In fact males pretty
much never eat meat but pregnant females often
do hunt and eat flesh during pregnancy even
though when not pregnant they don't touch
meat. Chimps are like Reavers they kill small
Monkey species and they do it with a pack
mentality. They get off on it. Orangutans behave
in a more private way out of necessity not out
of vindictive pleasure. Then there are Bobonos
who are sadly facing extinction. Smaller much
more intelligent and sociable type of Chimps
who are Vegetarian, sex crazy (bi-sexuality is
very common) and the females run their world.
The Bonobo handshake is hilarious.
When two Bonobos meet ( of any gender combo)
they touch each other's genitals. That's "ciao
bella" in Bonobo. If the Earth was populated
with Bonobo's instead of humans the whole world
would be like STUDIO 54 circa 1976. LOL!!!!

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Monday, October 10, 2005 11:39 AM

JUBELLATE


Well then perception is an important factor. To me, the events decribed didn't strike me as creepy, but the result of a split person, a scared little girl and trained killer. Rather a someone who couldn't accept what they'd become, but at times lashed out unexpectedly with that personality. In Objects in Space, River had just began to reconcile her two halves. Her conversation to Jubel reflected not only on him, but on herself, the monster within that she was trying to understand and control. She looked into his mind and saw a monster that enjoyed his monstrosities, and thus began to understand how she was different and why she was still a good person. Its not that she killed, but why she killed that made her different than Jubel. In Serenity, we saw her come to terms with the worst of her demons and finally understand how she could use her knowledge to save her friends. Just because she kicked ass doesn't mean she's now a shallow character, it shows she's matured to accept what she is and use it when necessary.

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Monday, October 10, 2005 12:21 PM

HAZE


A good point. There is an underlying point to be made here about the common confusion in Hollywood between physical strength and strength of character. But that a debate for another place. But I think we can agree that River is not a strong character just because she can beat people up.

As for the whole vegetarianism thing, I don’t think its wrong to eat meat but the fact that Summer abandoned it after so long and this abandonment was caused by combat training on a movie set is very disturbing to me. What does it say about any of our closely held beliefs?

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Monday, October 10, 2005 12:50 PM

JUBELLATE


I don't know Summer Glau, so I don't know what her thoughts on vegetarianism are. Like one member said, maybe she just felt like eating salad most of her career. I know people like that. If you don't need to consume heavy amounts of protein and iron, meat is unnecessary. But I do understand your comment about hollywood affecting the personal decisions of actors/actresses, but I try not to judge them on a personal level, only the quality of the product they produce.

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Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:22 AM

HAZE


I really can’t help it. I have a lot of affection for River and thus vicariously Summer. Im just worried that’s all.

Perhaps I don’t have a right to be but emotion is very rarely logical. I really don’t want to see her go Hollywood.

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Tuesday, October 11, 2005 8:26 AM

HAZE


Err I just read the article again and given the context it was said in… is it possible she was being ironic? If so we are really REALLY dumb.

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