Discussion for the subject: So Serenity ain't exactly Firefly, and I LOVE IT ANYWAY!*Spoiler City* by chrisisall

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Discussion for the subject: So Serenity ain't exactly Firefly, and I LOVE IT ANYWAY!*Spoiler City*

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Saturday, October 8, 2005 13:04
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Friday, October 7, 2005 12:20 PM

In the other thread I wanted to discuss the differences between Serenity and Firefly, and on that level it was a huge success, but it also became a meeting place for those who were more unhappy than not with our BDM.

Now it's our turn- the folk that accept the differences, and flat out embrace this gift Joss gave us....

Now, how does it differ from the series in ways that you appreciate, or all together LOVE?

Chrisisall, still saddened by you-know-what, but taking the BDM into my heart nontheless!

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Friday, October 7, 2005 1:05 PM

CHRISISALL

Okay, I'll be first.

What Mal went through was character developement of the highest order, and he was able to achieve something that would forever change the galaxy (in mostly good ways-I hope).
The Battle of Serenity Valley has been left behind, and Mal became one with a higher purpose than just to keep flying.

I thought the flick was Joss at his concentrated best.
Yeah, no dinner table scenes, but as Darkness said in Legend, "All things change, lady."

Chrisisall

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Friday, October 7, 2005 1:50 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Okay, I'll play.

River can control her psychic ability better!!!!

When the Reavers start the attack she basically goes catatonic from all the aggression and rage she's picking up. She can't filter, too much input. It's only through the shock of seeing Simon get shot that she is able to tune down what she is picking up. One of the big hurdles for River throughout the entire series was that she was bombarded by the thoughts of others. But now she at least knows that she can control that input. She's done it once. She can do it again.

If that's not a huge leap forward in her story I'm not sure what is.

* edited to add: Do we need to spoiler tag these entries? Or can we just assume that any discussion that has Serenity in the title will have spoilers? Because I'm lazy...

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Friday, October 7, 2005 2:40 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Do we need to spoiler tag these entries?

Okay, I tagged the thread title.

Did the ship look different to you? I thought it looked darker and grimier. Like, less bright w/out Inara and Book.
Even Mal's clothes looked darker.
Funny to start a trillogy (we hope) with an 'Empire Strikes Back' tone. I hope the next ones can be a little more fun though, had my heart ripped enough for this decade.
Joss is a brave fella.

Production Design geek Chrisisall

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Friday, October 7, 2005 4:06 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

I really appreciated that the film portrayed the dark Mal, the way he was intended. A callous jerk with a soft heart that he is ashamed to admit. It's character gold, and I was very glad to see it on the big screen.

I also felt that Simon was made into a more likeable fellow when they re-invented history to show his personal involvement with his sister's rescue. Normally Simon comes off as a complete wuss. Now he can be seen as a tough and determined man who simply lacks combat skills.
I'm sorry to see Wash go, but I can see where his skills are being duplicated. Inara has always been the voice of reason, and she will fill in for Wash in that regard. She's likely to be especially effective because she will be willing to challenge Mal more than Wash was ever comfortable with. Inara is also a skilled pilot, as we have seen, and can be used in chase scenes and getaways when River is otherwise occupied.

I do feel that the crew is weighted heavily towards combat now that Wash is gone. Together with Simon, Inara, and Kaylee, Wash was a traditional non-combatant. (With some notable exceptions.) I am expecting that we will lose a combatant in the next film, to lighten up the crew… though I can't name anyone I'd care to see go. Perhaps Joss will be kind and save any additional deaths for movie 3. He has already established a willingness to kill, and that should carry tension over to the next movie.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, October 7, 2005 4:17 PM

CHRISISALL

Just don't be surprised to see the Operative join the crew in the next movie!
Remember, I said it here first (I think...).

Chrisisall on the edge

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Friday, October 7, 2005 4:36 PM

BELASERA

Jayne and Mal had an actual Manful Relationship (uh, or something that sounds less slashy) instead of just gripin' and snarkin' and oh, betrayin'.
Simon was actually interesting, that was a nice change.
The 'verse was bigger, which I am of two minds about. I miss the Persephone and Whitefall populated little solar system, but I found the bigger 'verse more convincing in terms of Serenity's ability to evade the Alliance.
Gosh, um, I liked alot of things.

"I'll be in my bunk."

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Friday, October 7, 2005 5:07 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

I also felt that Simon was made into a more likeable fellow when they re-invented history to show his personal involvement with his sister's rescue.

I love Simon's development as well, but there was no re-writing of history, no retroactive continuity here. We just didn't know he'd had a direct hand in her rescue before.

Some would say this contradicts his previous characterization, and point out that the speech the administrator gives him tells him things that supposedly he doesn't glean until the events of "Ariel"; but consider:

1. The administrator describes River's purpose (i.e., living weapon) but doesn't give Simon specifics on the exact medical procedures involved. That's what he was after at St. Lucy's. (And you can't blame Simon for keeping River's programming a secret from the crew; they were dubious enough about her as it was...)

2. Watch "Ariel" again. Simon comes up with a plan so good even Jayne has to admit it's solid; he sells the plan to the crew with calm assurance, cold logic, and just the right amount of profit motive (which is to say, lots).

3. Granted, in "Jaynestown", he doesn't seem like all that good an actor, but he's way out of his element there, and already used to some of the crew not taking him particularly serious. In "Ariel" though, he's in his element -- an authority figure in an Alliance facility, exactly what he's pretending to be in the BDM opening. (Just check out the way he upbraided that guy who screwed up the patient's meds!)

So, as you might guess, Simon's story arc is one of my favorite developments in the BDM. Especially when he clocks the captain...

(But even more when he tells Kaylee his one regret.)

"The hell with this; I'm gonna live!" -- Kaywinnit Lee Frye

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Friday, October 7, 2005 5:38 PM

SKYMUTT

I have to disagree that Serenity isn't Firefly.

I like to think of it as the 'real' version of Joss's universe, he finally had the production budget and support that a dream of such high caliber deserved.

Obviously, to satisfy a far broader viewer base, a few minor liberties had to be taken and some of 'our' history was tweaked, but not rewritten.

Imagine taking a story that you hoped to be able to tell across several seasons of 1 hour shows and instead having to put all the important parts in 2 hours on the big screen. Some of the minor parts needed to be passed over for now, and some of the major ones had to be amped up (e.g. River's development.) Characters we saw to be 'weaker' would have had a long time to mature and harden on TV, but 'fish out of water' Simon would have been a terribly poor version of his character for film, especially if you want that film to make sense to non-fans of the series.

Joss finally got to do what he truly wanted with his universe, and because he's as good as he is the changes translated very well, into the first movie in a long time that actually exceeded all my expectations (very high ones, BTW)

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Friday, October 7, 2005 6:21 PM

EMBERS

thanks for this thread...
I've been feeling very blue,
feeling that the BDM might really be done, and gone from the theaters soon...
but then (in another thread) I hear that some theater owners have moved 'Serenity' into their bigger screens

I have to say that I also feel that 'Serenity' IS 'Firefly'...
I felt that the comic book showed good reason why Book left
and covered Inara leaving...

I felt that a lot of Simon's anger was understandable...

I really would have liked the scene at dinner,
I think they filmed a scene that would have been live that...when they were first at Haven,
but we got to see the director's cut,
it was Joss' vision...and I think it is really the world we knew.

Somehow Firefly had come to be seen as safe and happy with our multiple viewings,
but in fact everyone on the ship had their own secrets and their own agendas,
there had been conflicts before,
the movie just brought those to the surface.

I'm rambling...sorry about that....
just sayin' I loved the movie, and other than being WAY bigger and more intense,
I definitely felt it was part of our 'Verse

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Friday, October 7, 2005 7:27 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Serenity is Firefly. Agreed 100%.

IMHO,what a number of folk don't seem to grok is that Serenity is Firefly at a point in the storyline that would not have been reached until roughly the end of the second season.

With that take on it, the shifts in characterization make perfect sense. Take the matter of Mal's darker attitude in the BDM. It's well documented that Joss' vison of Mal was the version we saw in the pilot, and that the somewhat lighter take we saw in the balance of the episodes was a shift urged (or imposed) on him by the network. Nevertheless, Joss has the ability to make a virtue out of necessity; had the show enjoyed the longer run it deserved, I think we would have seen Mal's worldview turning darker once Inara and Book left.

Place the comic book story, which describes their departure, at the end of season one/beginning of season two. Joss would then have had a whole season in which to slowly twist the screws, sending Mal and the crew trial after trial, lost profit after lost profit, culminating in the worldview we saw in the movie; a little harder of heart, a bit less likely to laugh.

(All of the above would have been leavened with the occasional small victory or successful heist, of course; balance is valuable in storytelling.)

In that lost season-and-a-half we might have enjoyed two or three episodes devoted to adventures on or about Haven, or seen how Simon gradually became more comfortable with frontier life. All would have culminated in events grossly similar to what we've seen in the BDM (With adjustments for the larger canvas and smaller screen, of course.)

Maybe our losses would have been less painful if we'd had that extra time with our fallen first. Maybe not. Just one more gorram thing to hold to Fox's accounts.

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

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Friday, October 7, 2005 7:47 PM

GREGGALLINSON

Well, here's my take: Serenity essentially *does* start off as Firefly; or, at the very least, a logical extrapolation of post-Objects in Space Firefly. Inara's left (as she was going to do at the end of the series) and Mal's using River in his crimes (c'mon...you think he wouldn't?!). The character dynamics are pretty much there- Zoe is Mal's stalwart second, Simon and Mal are rivals, Jayne is a thug, Kaylee's sweet and perky, Wash is funny and he and Zoe are in love, etc. About the only jarring omission/change is Book- and even then, Ariel set a precedent for a totally Book-free Firefly episode, so it's not too bad.

And then...things just get bigger. And darker. And scarier. The Alliance is severely crippled, Wash and Book are dead, the existence of the Ravers is confirmed...yes, I would've liked to have seen the Alliance cityships. Yes, I would've liked to have had the mystery of Book revealed. And yes, Book and Wash's deaths did hurt. But in the end, I feel as if Joss broke Firefly only because he had to; if the series is to go on as a string of movies, it has to be reworked somehow; it has to become bigger and more meaningful. It can't just be a big screen two-parter stapled together from set pieces and scenes from the TV show, like the Star Trek: TNG movies.

IMO, Serenity brought perfect closure to Firefly and reassembled it into something potentially even more majestic: the Serenity film franchise.

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Saturday, October 8, 2005 1:54 AM

DONCOAT

Agree with everything said to this point.

Nobody has said this explicitly yet, so I will. The tension level in Serenity is at least an order of magnitude higher than it ever got in a Firfly episode -- and that was pretty high a couple times (Train Job, Ariel, War Stories).

Of course, the pacing was faster. That's as much because of the different medium as any consious decision, I think.

Less time for character development produced some incredible (and effective) "snapshot" moments, such as Kaylee's lament in the bar on Beaumonde, and of course, "I swallowed a bug".

Lots more but I have to run. Put me in the "I loved Serenity despite the differences" camp.

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Saturday, October 8, 2005 11:26 AM

BELASERA

Something I've been thinking, and I'd like to say it without sounding snarky, if I can.
Seems as though some folk are missing the little story we love (understandable) and resisting the big new thing (ditto)...but...also seems as though some folk are comparing Serenity not to Firefly, but rather to the Firefly that lives in their head.
'Cause, really, it's been so long and we've all seen the episodes so many times, and that has let us all sort of carry the story around in our heads, or even write it down in fanfic.
We've all chosen our own adventure, and then along comes more canon.
Personally, love the movie. Big time. Sure, I would have liked it if Jayne had been kidnapped by reavers and gone all crazy and then been a hero...(uh, ok, just me)
My fangirl heart would have liked a happy ending.
But what I got was just what I wanted, more story that I didn't think up in my own addlepated brain.
Is anyone else seeing this as part of the problem? I do NOT mean to belittle genuine dislikes, or concerns, only pointing out something I get a sense of.

"I'll be in my bunk."

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Saturday, October 8, 2005 1:04 PM

KELLAINA

Quote:
Originally posted by belasera:

But what I got was just what I wanted, more story that I didn't think up in my own addlepated brain.
Is anyone else seeing this as part of the problem? I do NOT mean to belittle genuine dislikes, or concerns, only pointing out something I get a sense of.

I can see exactly where you're coming from with this. Maybe it's part of the problem with having three years with nothing to do but anticipate what might happen if the show continued in some way.

And I can't help but think that the movie wasn't necessarily what we wanted, but what we needed. If everything had ended happily tied in a neat little bow, what would be the underlying conflicts in a sequel (i.e. I'm not convinced that everything between Mal and Zoe is ok). And if it had ended that way, would it have been true to the 'verse we knew?

I loved the movie for the things that made it different from the series: a darker Mal, a stronger Simon, a wider 'verse, basically the stuff, that as has been said, would have occured as the series progressed.

But I loved the movie (at least by the end of my second viewing) so what do I know?

"I can win this." - River, Objects in Space

Browncoat? Canadian? Join us:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/canadianbrowncoats

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