Serenity: Leaves on the Wind #6 **(SPOILERS!)** by MUTT999

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

I am priming the pump here by transferring the one comment from reddit www.reddit.com/r/firefly/comments/293qyi/spoilers_serenity_leaves_on_t
he_wind_issue_6/

Quote:
by lunchbox_tragedy 1 point 14 hours ago

I reread the whole set today in anticipation of the ending. The final issue seemed more like a denouement than a climax, but I still liked the resolution (especially since it sets up a promise of more).

Some observations:

Since MalXInara and KayleeXSimon have been fully requited at this point, we need a new romance; seems like Jayne has a thing for Bea, but it was only hinted at in the early issues.

The "disciples" of the black haired woman mentioned in issue 1 must be other Operatives, like the now-deceased Denon. I'm guessing the black-haired woman, who Mal's Operative was actually afraid of, is "Kalista", whom the former said Denon should've brought before he realized she was there. I guess she's our new main villain.

The alternate "resource" discussed by Denon and Kalista in issue 1 must refer to the other mind-altered girls like River, who were described as precious at that time and later when Mal et al broke into the facility. I thought the way Iris was cured from her mindless rage state went a little too smoothly and maybe should've been left partially unresolved for the future, but the fight scene with her in issue 5 was fantastic and I think one of the highlights of the series.

Given how important the Operative was to the rescue efforts in the series, I thought the face-off between him and Zoe (presumably ending in his death) was kind of stupid. I think she should've realized that Wash was killed because the crew decided to use Reavers as a tool just as much as he was by the Operative, and found it in her heart to form a truce with him. I wanted to see him come back and redeem himself more, although I guess his fate is technically unresolved...

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 27, 2014 9:10 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

I still can't comment because I haven't read #6, but others have.

http://fronttowardsgamer.com/2014/06/23/serenity-leaves-on-the-wind-6-
review-comics/

Quote:
So many of the story’s twists and turns feel very immaterial . . . For instance the entire diversion to the planet of River Tams, the point of which was to kidnap a discount River Tam so as to trade for Zoe ended up having exactly 0 impact on the plot as a whole and could’ve been cut completely with almost nothing lost at all. It’s not even like Mal’s development in that issue into actually caring about the new revolution he started carries over as this comic just ends with the status quo pretty much back to 0 for the Firefly universe

Oh! That stung! To take away the pain, here is Kaylee!
http://atlantiss505.deviantart.com/art/Pretty-Pretty-462183100

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 27, 2014 9:51 AM

MUTT999

Some more reviews here, mostly good.

http://comicbookroundup.com/comic-books/reviews/dark-horse-comics/sere
nity-leaves-on-the-wind/6

Also.

Can anyone make out the Stephen King novel Zoe's cellmate is reading?

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Friday, June 27, 2014 10:13 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by MUTT999:
Some more reviews here, mostly good.

http://comicbookroundup.com/comic-books/reviews/dark-horse-comics/sere
nity-leaves-on-the-wind/6

#6 was rated good by "Front Toward Gamer" reviewer. A 7 if you need a number
http://fronttowardsgamer.com/2014/06/23/serenity-leaves-on-the-wind-6-
review-comics/

But #1 was rated great (or 8.5 for those preferring precision).
http://fronttowardsgamer.com/2014/01/27/serenity-leaves-on-the-wind-1-
review-comic/

The reviewer pointed to the return to zero at the end of #6, which indicates to me that Dark Horse Comics will place Firefly on a long hiatus before the next issue. I hope a writer exists somewhere in our universe with a long story that can span 24 or 36 issues.

I'm optimistic as Kaylee. Sorry to the editors at Dark Horse Comics if I'm unrealistic about the comic-book business.
http://scarecrowmax.deviantart.com/art/Kaylee-Wallpaper-463505315

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, June 27, 2014 6:45 PM

STEAMER

As with the rest of LOTW, I have mixed feelings. Glad to see the BDHs mostly in one piece, Serenity also fully intact, and River NOT paired off with Jayne (naturally). Not sure how I feel about Bea and this "Iris" chick staying on board (and how the heck did Simon bring Iris around that quickly anyway??). But the open-endedness of it - especially as regards the Operative and Jubal - that I'm definitely not crazy for. Sure, it opens up the door to plenty of future comics, but can they possibly find something to do with my poor little River besides chase, hound, and torture her near into oblivion??? Honestly.

I'd also add my nitpicks about the artwork in this issue especially, but I know I'll just get flamed for them, so what the hell. Better get back to finishing my own fanfic series before Zacky-boy usurps any of the other ideas I had for it. :lol:

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Friday, June 27, 2014 9:39 PM

I've been fairly vocal in past threads about not being a fan of this story arc. I wish I could say that the finale changed by mind, but it was really just the nail in the coffin.

In the middle of the series, I started to get a little excited -- Mal and the Operative fighting side by side, Mal with a whole shipful of New Browncoats, the potential of another River (but perhaps darker and more damaged) -- but in the end, it was all so... lightweight. So much of the good stuff was thrown to the side.

I suspect that Zack (I can't call him Whedon; that's an affront to his brother's talent) was trying to tell too many stories at the same time, so they ALL fell flat.

Just addressing what we see here, roughly chronologically in the issue:

1) On one hand, I like Zoe's certainty that Mal will come for her... but it seems to fly in the face of the pragmatic Zoe that we've come to know and love. Her goal here is simply to survive until Mal gets to her. I don't buy that. She would be doing more.

(By the way, the book appears to be "The Long Walk," which is a Bachmann book.)

2) Like the use of River to brain-scan Rodgers. I will give Zack credit for that. They've taken the telepath route away and made her more clearer a "reader" of surface thoughts only, which is good.

3) In the scene with the Tams, Kaylee, and Iris, I like the initial decisiveness with which Simon acts, shooting Iris without hesitation (even though it's only a sedative). Here, we actually see some character development -- Mal has been rubbing off on him.

Unfortunately, the depiction of River is so woefully rooted in bad fanfic (quoting dialogue from a scene from the show that she wasn't even there fore), that it ruins the scene as a whole.

4) Mal's plan that he and The Operative will go in alone: I get that he doesn't want to be responsible for other lives, throughout this story arc, his guiding light has been that he's been willing to do ANYTHING to get Zoe back... so why so standoffish all of a sudden?

The Mal we've come to know SHOULD be in a cargo hold giving a spirited speech to all the New Browncoats, telling them that he can't ask them to lay down their lives for a woman they've never met, but that he's going and he'll owe a debt to any willing to join him.

But of course, he can't really give that speech because WHERE IS EVERYBODY?!? Based on the pictures we saw in the last episode, there should be battered, smelly people filling up every part of the ship, but, nope. Not any to be seen. Which is weird, because Bea specifically mentions them, and we DO see them in the background later.

So why is Mal willing to bring Bea with him but none of the others? Why knows, except apparently the plot doesn't call for more than the mule can carry. Which is pretty disappointing.

At this point, I have to take a sidestep and discuss what I thought we MIGHT see in this issue: a) Knowing that there was a lot to resolve and not a ton of time, I suspected that Mal might go in armed for bear, ready to find a war, leading an army -- only to find that Zoe had already basically led a prison revolt. Now, moving forward, we've got a potentially interesting dynamic with Mal and the crew at the head of an army of mixed idealists (Bea's New Resistance) and ruthless criminals (those freed by Zoe, with nowhere else to go). What crazy stuff might go down next?

But, no. Instead, Zoe has pretty much done nothing to help herself. And Mal is fully intent on a plan that should certainly fail.

5) An now, let's get to Mal's brilliant plan. Admittedly, he's not the tactical genius that Bea wants him to be, but this is the guy who pitted the Alliance and the Reavers against one another and lived to tell the tale.

What do we get as his follow up:

Three people speeding TOWARD a prison in a mule -- which should probably be driven by Bea, not The Operative, given that she's the least-experienced combatant. And the plan is, what, HOPE that Zoe is running toward them? I understand that they said that they'll need to signal Zoe when they arrive, but that's a pretty HUGE leap of faith that she's actually in a position to act.

And let's not forget the prison guards. I understand that maybe they're not top of the line, since they're "just" prison guards, but they're utterly useless. Okay, Jayne takes one out. Zoe's roommate gets a second. But one of the group shots, there's at least a dozen and a half dudes on hover-cycles, and not one of them thinks to stop and shoot the runner? Seriously?

Also, one must wonder what the prisoners are doing during the prison break. Absolutely nothing, it would seem.

This is all just poor, poor writing.

6) And now we get to the ramifications. Oh, wait, there aren't any. Because not only are the prison guards stupid, but they have no ships to give pursuit, no weapons to shoot down the intruders, and no sensors to detect incoming intruders.

And rather than making their own decisions, or perhaps following guidelines that may be in place because a prison MIGHT want to plan for an eventuality like a prison break, they're going to allow their response (or lack thereof) to be dictated by a dude who was dropped on their doorstep in chains.

In short, they prison guards are so utterly, pitilessly stupid that they could be thwarted by my 5-year-old-daughter and her friends.

No, I take that back. My daughter is way to smart for these guys. This is a prison that my two Schnauzers could break into. Which is good, because Mal's plan is roughly on par with something that Izzy and Lilly would come up with between eating carrots and taking dumps in the backyard.

I'm sorry, but this is just terrible. Without Joss's name on the cover, this would never be professionally published. Honestly, some of this is so bad that I've lost respect for Joss for allowing it to happen.

7) So who exactly stayed behind and who is on the ship? We know the Operative stayed (more on this scene in a moment), but are the New Browncoats still onboard or not? The cargo hold looks awful open, and we DO see random people wandering around outside the ship, but a little clarity would have been nice.

What about Bea and Iris? The infirmary scene indicates they'll be striking off on their own (I won't dig into the fact that Simon is now a miracle worker because others have addressed it), but when Zoe refers to Emma's "family", they're in the group shot. But they're not on the bridge later.

But then, neither is Jayne. So unless there's some REAL freaky stuff going down in the engine room, I'd have to speculate that Bea and Iris got off the ship... and maybe took Jayne with them.

Which, by the way, would pretty much be the coolest part of the story arc. If Buffy can have Angel and Faith, why can't Firefly have Bea, and Iris, and Jayne?

Sidenote: I think the Whedons missed a step in not sending The Operative off with them. Seriously, a second ship with Jayne, the Operative, a renegade reader, and an idealist with fancies herself a young Mal? GREAT spinoff!

8) Speaking of the Operative... What are we supposed to make of this scene? Did she throw him the gun so she's not shooting him down unarmed? If so, WHY? That honorable "You'll see it coming" crap is Mal's schtick. Zoe is a soldier. She does what she needs to do.

Or was she giving him the gun to literally defend himself? As in "I will never forgive you for what happened to my husband, but you DID help save me, and Mal DID shake your hand, so here's a gun so you don't die. Maybe we'll need you another day."

Honestly, I hope it's the latter, since he's too interesting a character to be gone.

9) Then there's the coda.

So, Jubal survives a fall. From a spaceship to a planet.

Seriously?

This is Firefly, not a Marvel superhero movie. Is he going to come back as Deathlok?

I could comment on Kalista and her army of murder readers, but why?

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Saturday, June 28, 2014 12:19 AM

STEAMER

Quote:
Originally posted by Tyr:
You're not the only one who had an issue with the art. There were some mistakes that were so obvious they pulled me out of the story.

And I'm not complaining "this character doesn't look like the actor!" I'm complaining "Jeantys couldn't even line up the pupils of characters on multiple panels, and this is supposed to be a serious scene but all I can fixate on is how wall-eyed and un-emotive everyone looks."

Bam.

One wonders if this is how they get out of paying royalties to the actors or somesuch.

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Saturday, June 28, 2014 12:46 AM

But Firefly is supposed to end back at a status quo. That's what Firefly is, it's them always taking a step forward and two steps back.

Although I could tell the raid on the Academy wasn't going to amount to a hill of beans when River first suggested it. But it's actually nice that they've countered River's potential to be a Mary Sue by making her likely to outsmart herself. Plus, I've always felt that River's "help" should always be a little bit risky and inclined to go any way, makes any story involving her unpredictable.

Yeah, Zack was trying to write too many plot lines. At least the ones he had in mind were cool concepts, even if they were a bit thrown together, maybe we can get back to stories focusing on one concept or theme at a time now.

GWEK:

Quote:
And let's not forget the prison guards. I understand that maybe they're not top of the line, since they're "just" prison guards, but they're utterly useless.

In fairness, one of the big features of the prison is that it's supposed to be a place that people are unlikely to find. The guards probably aren't anticipating people trying to break in, and considering the big vast nothing around them, it probably doesn't much matter to them if someone takes a runner. They'd just expect them to die out in the desert, so why would they bother maintaining ships to go after anyone?

And Mal hasn't ever really wanted to be the browncoat new leader. That was only something Bea insisted on and he hasn't vocalized any agreement with her despite the guilt trips she tries on him.

Quote:
Which, by the way, would pretty much be the coolest part of the story arc. If Buffy can have Angel and Faith, why can't Firefly have Bea, and Iris, and Jayne?

That could definitely be cool.

As for the operative, I agree, I hope they haven't killed him off yet, and I'm glad at least it was left ambiguous.

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Monday, June 30, 2014 1:49 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by Steamer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Tyr:
You're not the only one who had an issue with the art. There were some mistakes that were so obvious they pulled me out of the story.

And I'm not complaining "this character doesn't look like the actor!" I'm complaining "Jeantys couldn't even line up the pupils of characters on multiple panels, and this is supposed to be a serious scene but all I can fixate on is how wall-eyed and un-emotive everyone looks."

Bam.

One wonders if this is how they get out of paying royalties to the actors or somesuch.

The artist Georges Jeanty said about his work, "In this case I would have preferred a longer arc only because of the time it took me to get comfortable with drawing the characters. Around Issue 5, I started to get familiar with these guys but by then there was just one issue left. With Buffy I had years to refine my craft, it was all too short lived on Serenity. I look forward to doing more if for nothing else, than I will have a better handle on drawing the characters... Inara and Kaylee, I apologize, I never did you justice... " -- http://slayalive.com/showthread.php/3633-Georges-Jeanty-talks-Serenity

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, June 30, 2014 3:21 PM

I actually think Inara looked the most accurate of all of them.

The others had a few glitches here and there.

Also apart from the too many storylines issue, I kinda wish Emma had been more of a character and less of a prop used to give Zoe and Wash closure. But babies may be hard to write, so maybe that will get better.

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Tuesday, July 1, 2014 7:57 AM

The series takes place -- what, over the span of a few weeks? Maybe less? A one-month-old IS more of a prop than a character! If anything, we should have seen how tired and irritable she was making the crew: given everything she's been through and how much tension there is around her, there's no way that kid is on a regular sleep schedule!

On the other hand, I guess the crew have been saving up for nine months during their exciting mission of nothing-but-naps-and-intercourse.

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Tuesday, July 1, 2014 8:17 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

There needs to be some rule changes to keep the comic going. I know two:

The police cannot distinguish Serenity from other Firefly spaceships. That will be a comic-book rule so that Mal can visit planets without being arrested when he lands.

Also, Mal will be able to escape the planet because another rule is that police long-range radar can't follow spaceships in space. That is how the Reavers fleet surprised the Alliance fleet in the movie.

Whedon had to disguise the long-range radar rule with a glowing cloud around Mr Universe's moon, but a glowing cloud around every planet that Mal visits would not be believed. That's why the rule is that radar doesn't work when comic-book Serenity is the target.

The comics would not need these special rules and unique physics laws if the comics could let Mal go back to being an ordinary criminal rather than the Alliance's most wanted fugitive. Mal could go back to being one tiny microbe hiding behind and with billions of other ordinary criminals.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, July 1, 2014 10:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
The series takes place -- what, over the span of a few weeks? Maybe less? A one-month-old IS more of a prop than a character! If anything, we should have seen how tired and irritable she was making the crew: given everything she's been through and how much tension there is around her, there's no way that kid is on a regular sleep schedule!

On the other hand, I guess the crew have been saving up for nine months during their exciting mission of nothing-but-naps-and-intercourse.

Man, I hate kids, and even I know that one-month old babies emote.

Like, a lot. Loudly and obnoxiously. At all times of the day and night. Whether people around them are happy or not.

So that's basically what I meant, with how angry and upset people were and how Serenity is often a rockety ride and how odd her schedule would be, there should have been a lot more crying. Either they were keeping the baby doped up to her ears courtesy Mal making Simon do it for sanity reasons (actually kinda funny in a dark humour way), or that baby has some weird ass calmness about her.

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Tuesday, July 1, 2014 10:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
There needs to be some rule changes to keep the comic going. I know two:

The police cannot distinguish Serenity from other Firefly spaceships. That will be a comic-book rule so that Mal can visit planets without being arrested when he lands.

Uh, yeah? There's over 40,000 mark threes still in operation in the verse. They're basically like the cadillac of space ships. And we already know that Kaylee knows enough to screw with their transponder signals and pulse beacons such as to throw off the legal authorities.

Quote:
Also, Mal will be able to escape the planet because another rule is that police long-range radar can't follow spaceships in space. That is how the Reavers fleet surprised the Alliance fleet in the movie.

Whedon had to disguise the long-range radar rule with a glowing cloud around Mr Universe's moon, but a glowing cloud around every planet that Mal visits would not be believed. That's why the rule is that radar doesn't work when comic-book Serenity is the target.

Other places it'd depend on the Alliance presence and how much technology is available. Most space ports have land-lock capabilities, and there seems to be some function that can be done over the cortex for places that have some measure of jurisdicational or magistrative control, but a lot of places might be too remote for either.

Also, again, Kaylee knows how to mess with the telemetry tracking their flight path and signals. See again the movie when they confuse the Alliance with seven different signals to throw off the pursuit. They can also probably disrupt the cortex if anyone tries something while they're in orbit.

Quote:
The comics would not need these special rules and unique physics laws if the comics could let Mal go back to being an ordinary criminal rather than the Alliance's most wanted fugitive. Mal could go back to being one tiny microbe hiding behind and with billions of other ordinary criminals.

I think that's mostly what they're doing. I don't think it's coincidence that there's a whole new crop of disenfranchised browncoats out there now. Before, Mal was staying low because many of his contacts had been wiped out and they were doing a lot more hard scrabble work and scavenging. Now, he has a bunch of new contacts that are probably going to have to start resorting to crime as well.

Mal refused to become a browncoat leader, he has chosen to remain a criminal instead of becoming a high profile target. Miranda and the Academy break-in and River are just slightly higher profile screwups that are thorns in the paw of some Alliance muckety mucks doing their best to bury the evidence. But that's really not that different from when Mal was just a criminal and River was just supercargo. They might run across someone sent after River maybe about three times a year, tops, otherwise I can imagine it'd be back to business as usual for the crew.

Now eventually the narrative probably will have to elevate Mal, get him to accept some position of leadership for a cause crusading against Blue Sun and the Alliance. This is a Whedon story after all, and the plot tends to eventually go there. But that will be more towards the end of the series.

In the meantime, I don't see why there wouldn't be a return to form after a brief period of excitement for a while, if slightly hotter than usual, but nothing they aren't used to dealing with. I mean as you said, they went almost nine months without running into any more problems than one crazy older man trying to steal the ship and where to pick up contraceptives.

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Tuesday, July 1, 2014 11:05 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

Uh, yeah? There's over 40,000 mark threes still in operation in the verse. They're basically like the cadillac of space ships. And we already know that Kaylee knows enough to screw with their transponder signals and pulse beacons such as to throw off the legal authorities. . . .

In the meantime, I don't see why there wouldn't be a return to form after a brief period of excitement for a while, if slightly hotter than usual, but nothing they aren't used to dealing with.

I'm not convinced that the Alliance can't find/track Serenity again and again. Like ever other day.

But, if Mal was constantly moving the crew to other Firefly class spaceships, he could keep dodging the Alliance indefinitely. Mal's life becomes a game of Three-card Monte, with spaceships for cards. Guess which spaceship that has Mal as captain and win an Alliance prize! Except all the moving into new ships destroys Serenity as the tenth crew member. Serenity becomes nothing special for the Firefly story.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, July 1, 2014 11:25 AM

Quote:
I'm not convinced that the Alliance can't find/track Serenity again and again. Like ever other day.

Jubal snuck up on them, but only because River was in a coma.

All other times, Alliance doesn't really have a chance. Unless they use other psychics, but that's basically a lot of effort and resources that would be better used elsewhere for one insignificant ship and no real gain. I mean they just lost TWO highly trained operatives this time around, a psychic, and the military guy running the Op, and in return they managed to take out some of the browncoat cell but Serenity got away.

There will be someone always plotting against Serenity and gunning for everyone's capture, because some of them seem like they have a lot of ego and tend to be petty. You can bet that something Mal and crew have done stings and they'll want their revenge. But any plot that has a prayer of even working would take months of planning and set up, including tracking Serenity down. And probably still get destroyed by the crew's blind dumb luck.

So due to the size of space and the time duration for travel, there's some hard limits on how often people can try to get at Serenity. This isn't like scouring a five mile area in a remote part of Pakistan, this is an entire solar system with millions of miles between points of interest. Heck, even planetary based sensors would have a lot of ground to cover and not all worlds are as technologically advanced as core worlds. There will be excitement here and there when the Alliance finally does find them and takes a shot at them, but the rest of the time life would be pretty normal for them.

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Thursday, July 3, 2014 3:23 AM

VERASAMUELS

Yet again, Jayne gets brown eyes. [SIGH]

Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox

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Thursday, July 3, 2014 9:29 AM

MUTT999

Quote:
Originally posted by VeraSamuels:
Yet again, Jayne gets brown eyes. [SIGH]

He must use contacts to keep people guessin'.

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Thursday, July 3, 2014 9:32 AM

That's my best guess too. Must be cheaper than those specs Simon was wearing in the first episode.

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Thursday, July 3, 2014 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
The series takes place -- what, over the span of a few weeks? Maybe less? A one-month-old IS more of a prop than a character! If anything, we should have seen how tired and irritable she was making the crew: given everything she's been through and how much tension there is around her, there's no way that kid is on a regular sleep schedule!

On the other hand, I guess the crew have been saving up for nine months during their exciting mission of nothing-but-naps-and-intercourse.

Man, I hate kids, and even I know that one-month old babies emote.

Like, a lot. Loudly and obnoxiously. At all times of the day and night. Whether people around them are happy or not.

So that's basically what I meant, with how angry and upset people were and how Serenity is often a rockety ride and how odd her schedule would be, there should have been a lot more crying. Either they were keeping the baby doped up to her ears courtesy Mal making Simon do it for sanity reasons (actually kinda funny in a dark humour way), or that baby has some weird ass calmness about her.

I would not be at all surprised if Simon took it upon himself to medicate the baby. Note that Simon and Kaylee are stuck with Emma most often, and Simon -- he's a problem-solver, that one.

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Thursday, July 3, 2014 11:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:

I would not be at all surprised if Simon took it upon himself to medicate the baby. Note that Simon and Kaylee are stuck with Emma most often, and Simon -- he's a problem-solver, that one.

It is so wrong that I find this so funny...

I'm almost positive this is not even remotely ethical. The whole point of a baby crying is to indicate something is bothering them or that they're hungry - take that away and I'm pretty sure you have either a dead baby, failure to thrive, or a psychological complex.

But it would explain so many of the shots where the baby is just way too quiet and/or looks kinda dazed. And I've had my doubts for a while that ANYONE on Serenity would be fit caretakers for very young children.

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Thursday, July 3, 2014 11:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
I'm not convinced that the Alliance can't find/track Serenity again and again. Like ever other day.

Jubal snuck up on them, but only because River was in a coma.

All other times, Alliance doesn't really have a chance.

I'm not sure that I agree with that. First, don't forget that it's NOT Jubal who tracks the crew -- it's Bea and Jayne. Are there other New Resistance folk out there who might want to find Mal? I'm betting so.

With respect to only being able sneak up on the crew if River is in a coma... again, I'm not so sure, but that's more from a storytelling point of view. If River is essentially omniscient, it becomes impossible to tell good stories. River's powers MUST be limited, or everything becomes "River! Fix it!"

One of the things that Zach does right here is to clearly demonstrate some of the limits of River's ability, in showing that she can get a sense of active surface thoughts, but nothing beyond that.

Her power level seems no higher than, say, the movie, where she senses the Reavers when they ACT in near vicinity, but not before. River makes it more difficult to sneak up on them, but nowhere close to impossible.

Now, with respect to actually FINDING the crew... the fact that the Firefly is so common has always been on their side, so it depends on how much Mal rocks the boat, and how long he sticks around after.

Quote:

Unless they use other psychics, but that's basically a lot of effort and resources that would be better used elsewhere for one insignificant ship and no real gain. I mean they just lost TWO highly trained operatives this time around, a psychic, and the military guy running the Op, and in return they managed to take out some of the browncoat cell but Serenity got away.

Are you kidding? Yes, they lost Denon, but they had already lost The Operative a long time ago. With respect to Iris... So what? They've got dozens more! Rodgers isn't lost -- he'll be fine, and I'm sure we haven't seen the last of him.

As for taking out "sone of the browncoat cells"... The implication is that they took out a huge percentage of the resistance. Even if they only took out the cell we see in the comic, that's HUGE, because it's the sell on SIHNON, which is one of the two capital planets of the Alliance. That's like taking down a terrorist cabal in Washington, D.C., or New York! That ain't nothing to sneeze at!

Although Kalista loses (in that her goal, we discover, is to retrieve her "sister" at all costs), but I would argue that Rodgers is the big winner of the story arc. I think an argument can be made that he really doesn't much care if he captures Mal - he's more concerned about exposing Mal, so he can lead the New Resistance like lambs to a slaughter... which is EXACTLY what happens.

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Thursday, July 3, 2014 12:36 PM

Quote:
I'm not sure that I agree with that. First, don't forget that it's NOT Jubal who tracks the crew -- it's Bea and Jayne.

Jayne is actually implied to have contact with the crew now and then, presumably he'd know how to get in touch since he was once on the crew. Also, River might not LIKE him, but she wouldn't particularly object to him showing up again. Someone who's deliberately out to kill or endanger the crew she could probably find a way to steer clear of them unless she didn't see any other alternative or unless she was in a coma, which was my point.

Quote:
If River is essentially omniscient, it becomes impossible to tell good stories. River's powers MUST be limited, or everything becomes "River! Fix it!"

Actually I think that this story was intended to imply that she's not, based on how far south that Academy raid goes. Also, it's indicated that the clearer River is mentally, the less clear her other abilities are, hence the coma subplot, plus when she is clear she has an obvious tendency to outsmart herself. Basically it seems River's power is balanced by either her clarity or her insanity - too clear and she's not as far ranging and too reliant on an assumption of superior intelligence, too crazy and she sees farther but can't act in advance to avoid a problem or piece what she's seeing together.

But she still has a big advantage in terms of avoiding pursuit and that shouldn't be discounted.

Besides, it's already being set up in story that the psychics really ARE the best bet for catching River and the crew, because of what I've already said. I expect that attempt to go belly up though too - Alliance is too focused on reliability and procedure, to the point they'd wipe out any vestiges of individuality in their psychic supersoldiers, and that comes back to bite them every time they're up against something more unpredictable or different than them.

Quote:
Are you kidding? Yes, they lost Denon, but they had already lost The Operative a long time ago.

They'd already lost the other Operative by the time of the movie, but you really don't think they wouldn't want to capture and debrief him (read: torture and murder him horrifically)?

Quote:
So what? They've got dozens more!

How much money do you think it costs to make a psychic, and to keep the program covered up? Which becomes all the harder the more escape - especially ones dead set on exposing it?

Honestly, last comic you were complaining about how pants on head stupid the Alliance is, now it's that it wasn't a big deal, couldn't the reality be somewhere in the middle? Alliance accomplished some objectives, Browncoats and Serenity crew accomplished some objectives, but mostly it was a gigantic screw up for everyone?

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Monday, July 7, 2014 6:51 PM

LYESMITH

I aim to misbehave.

First time posting, so I'm just gonna jump in here. I agree with a lot of your assessment of this series, but I did have something to add.

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:

4) Mal's plan that he and The Operative will go in alone: I get that he doesn't want to be responsible for other lives, throughout this story arc, his guiding light has been that he's been willing to do ANYTHING to get Zoe back... so why so standoffish all of a sudden?

The Mal we've come to know SHOULD be in a cargo hold giving a spirited speech to all the New Browncoats, telling them that he can't ask them to lay down their lives for a woman they've never met, but that he's going and he'll owe a debt to any willing to join him.

But of course, he can't really give that speech because WHERE IS EVERYBODY?!? Based on the pictures we saw in the last episode, there should be battered, smelly people filling up every part of the ship, but, nope. Not any to be seen. Which is weird, because Bea specifically mentions them, and we DO see them in the background later.

So why is Mal willing to bring Bea with him but none of the others? Why knows, except apparently the plot doesn't call for more than the mule can carry. Which is pretty disappointing.

Mal is clearly struggling with the idea of leading an army again. I think, while you're right and using logic, Mal needed this series to get over this issue he's got. He fought a war. He lead people. They almost all died. He's done. He won't do that again. It's him and his and that's it. He's not going to bring anyone else in, he's not going to let an army follow him again. Crew, family, that's different. But the daughter of someone else he got killed? Even if it wasn't a direct connection, he holds that on himself.
I think we needed this bad plan. I think Mal needed to go through these motions to get to a place where he might be able to lead an army again and fight the Alliance again, instead of just skirting around them.
It's one thing to lead a skirmish and fight one fight with the people you've come to love like family. Mal can wrap his head around that. Leading an entire army of people with coats of a brownish color probably smacks his PSTD around a little too much for comfort. (Yes, I understand that term hasn't been used in canon, and I'm no doctor, but freakin' look at the dude and what he's gone through and the issues he still has over it. Come on.) I think the story was told awkwardly, and couldn't been handled a lot, a LOT better, but I think this was a step that was needed for Mal.

Other than that, I agree whole-heartedly and you brought up points I hadn't even thought of. I think the guards could have been explained. They just didn't SHOW enough of what was going on and where people were. I mean, if they told the story right and explained either with narration or art, it wouldn't be hard to explain. You only saw two guards with the over all prison population. Stupid, yeah, but they're in the middle of no where, surrounded by desert, why guard them when they know they ain't goin' anywhere? Zoe was halfway to the mule before we see the guards on skiffs, maybe they came from the prison and gained on her. Obviously, these are a lot of assumptions, but better storytelling could've explained that. The prisoners not doing anything? I can see some of the more intelligent ones knowing that Zoe's going to escape, but they're not there to save everyone, so why fight? Help Zoe, but other than that, riot is excessive. But in a populace like that, not everyone is going to have that mentality. People will still riot because they're idiot criminals and that's what's expected of them.

It does make me excited for what they've set up. For the future stories. I just hope they're treated with more respect and planning than this one was.

Some people juggle geese!

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Monday, July 7, 2014 7:03 PM

Quote:

First time posting, so I'm just gonna jump in here.

Brave man. Or woman.

I think one thing we can all agree on, the story could've used more planning and does feel like it was just thrown out.

But, I also think the conclusions that are reached are logical and based on established set up. So I don't mind that too much. Plus I get the feeling the artists and Zach were still getting their feet under them. Zach's been writing stories to get a feel for the characters, but that's different from putting them into a coherent plot.

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Tuesday, July 8, 2014 8:38 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Plus I get the feeling the artists and Zach were still getting their feet under them. Zach's been writing stories to get a feel for the characters, but that's different from putting them into a coherent plot.

I think that is why the story was only six issues long.

And then stops for an indefinite amount of time.

Nobody knows where to take the story next. Don't ask Mal about his plans for tomorrow. Mal certainly doesn't plan his future ahead, so writers can't, either.

Rather than Mal making plans, if River was doing the planning for Serenity, there would be an abundance of plans, more than enough crazy plans to fill double issues every month for years ahead.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, July 8, 2014 9:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Actually I think that this story was intended to imply that she's not, based on how far south that Academy raid goes. Also, it's indicated that the clearer River is mentally, the less clear her other abilities are, hence the coma subplot, plus when she is clear she has an obvious tendency to outsmart herself.

Right. That's basically what *I'm* saying. Someone else, I thought it was you, made the assertion that as long as the crew has River, they can't be caught.

Quote:
How much money do you think it costs to make a psychic, and to keep the program covered up? Which becomes all the harder the more escape - especially ones dead set on exposing it?

You're talking about Iris, yes? Because if we're to believe this story arc, River is dead set on listening to coitus for months on end.

Quote:
Honestly, last comic you were complaining about how pants on head stupid the Alliance is, now it's that it wasn't a big deal, couldn't the reality be somewhere in the middle? Alliance accomplished some objectives, Browncoats and Serenity crew accomplished some objectives, but mostly it was a gigantic screw up for everyone?

I agree that it was a big, gigantic screw-up all around, although on the balance, the Alliance (or at least Rodgers) came out on top.

You're right that I complained about the stupidity of the Alliance -- and this time around, I'm complaining about Mal's utter stupidity, which does not negate the Alliance's stupidity, but simply adds to it, making for an entire story arc of base idiocy.

Rodgers doesn't win through cleverness, but simply through luck. Someone -- again, I believe it may have been you -- painted this as a catastrophic loss for the Alliance. I don't think agree that's the truth of it -- they (Rodgers, at least) lost the battle here but won the war. He achieved his ultimate, larger goal, just not as effectively as he would have wanted to.

On The Operative (because I think I deleted that out): I don't have the impression that Mal and The Operative exactly kept in touch, so if Mal could track him down inside a day, I would imagine the Alliance could have done it in nine months if they really wanted to.

On Jayne (also deleted out): The implication is NOT that they've kept in touch. It's clearly implied, if not outright stated, that the crew has not had contact with Jayne since he "did what was right for him" and left. Jayne is sniffing around Mal's old haunts, hoping to find Mal. I won't chalk this one up to total stupidity (although Mal should really have been looking for NEW places to hide), because Mal states that he realizes now that he shouldn't have trusted Jayne. He was giving Jayne the benefit of the doubt, and I can't blame him for that.

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Tuesday, July 8, 2014 10:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Lyesmith:
First time posting, so I'm just gonna jump in here. I agree with a lot of your assessment of this series, but I did have something to add.

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:

4) Mal's plan that he and The Operative will go in alone: I get that he doesn't want to be responsible for other lives, throughout this story arc, his guiding light has been that he's been willing to do ANYTHING to get Zoe back... so why so standoffish all of a sudden?

The Mal we've come to know SHOULD be in a cargo hold giving a spirited speech to all the New Browncoats, telling them that he can't ask them to lay down their lives for a woman they've never met, but that he's going and he'll owe a debt to any willing to join him.

But of course, he can't really give that speech because WHERE IS EVERYBODY?!? Based on the pictures we saw in the last episode, there should be battered, smelly people filling up every part of the ship, but, nope. Not any to be seen. Which is weird, because Bea specifically mentions them, and we DO see them in the background later.

So why is Mal willing to bring Bea with him but none of the others? Why knows, except apparently the plot doesn't call for more than the mule can carry. Which is pretty disappointing.

Mal is clearly struggling with the idea of leading an army again. I think, while you're right and using logic, Mal needed this series to get over this issue he's got. He fought a war. He lead people. They almost all died. He's done. He won't do that again. It's him and his and that's it. He's not going to bring anyone else in, he's not going to let an army follow him again. Crew, family, that's different. But the daughter of someone else he got killed? Even if it wasn't a direct connection, he holds that on himself.
I think we needed this bad plan. I think Mal needed to go through these motions to get to a place where he might be able to lead an army again and fight the Alliance again, instead of just skirting around them.
It's one thing to lead a skirmish and fight one fight with the people you've come to love like family. Mal can wrap his head around that. Leading an entire army of people with coats of a brownish color probably smacks his PSTD around a little too much for comfort. (Yes, I understand that term hasn't been used in canon, and I'm no doctor, but freakin' look at the dude and what he's gone through and the issues he still has over it. Come on.) I think the story was told awkwardly, and couldn't been handled a lot, a LOT better, but I think this was a step that was needed for Mal.

Other than that, I agree whole-heartedly and you brought up points I hadn't even thought of. I think the guards could have been explained. They just didn't SHOW enough of what was going on and where people were. I mean, if they told the story right and explained either with narration or art, it wouldn't be hard to explain. You only saw two guards with the over all prison population. Stupid, yeah, but they're in the middle of no where, surrounded by desert, why guard them when they know they ain't goin' anywhere? Zoe was halfway to the mule before we see the guards on skiffs, maybe they came from the prison and gained on her. Obviously, these are a lot of assumptions, but better storytelling could've explained that. The prisoners not doing anything? I can see some of the more intelligent ones knowing that Zoe's going to escape, but they're not there to save everyone, so why fight? Help Zoe, but other than that, riot is excessive. But in a populace like that, not everyone is going to have that mentality. People will still riot because they're idiot criminals and that's what's expected of them.

It does make me excited for what they've set up. For the future stories. I just hope they're treated with more respect and planning than this one was.

Some people juggle geese!

Welcome aboard!

I agree with most of what you've said, by the way. Ultimately, although I'm picking apart the story piece by piece, it really boils down to bad writing.

I appreciate your sentiment of hoping there's more respect and planning in the next story arc -- my hope is that someone other than Zach Whedon writes it. Most of his experience seems to be with television. I'm not sure how that writing goes, but his comic book writing ability is pretty weak tea.

I'd say that almost everything you say about what the story arc was supposed to be is correct. Unfortunately, there was too much crammed into a single arc, which meant that all stories suffered. This should probably have been 3 different 4-issue story arcs to do justice to everything they were trying to touch on. It's been my experience that the more masters a single piece of writing tries to serve, the more poorly it serves each. Here, there were many masters.

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Tuesday, July 8, 2014 10:52 AM

Quote:
Right. That's basically what *I'm* saying. Someone else, I thought it was you, made the assertion that as long as the crew has River, they can't be caught.

No, that's just what you read into what I said. All I said was that River's presence makes actually capturing them vastly more complicated and that River has some distinct advantages when it comes to evading capture. They really probably would need to use other psychics, except in this case she happened to be in a coma.

Which is what allowed Jubal another chance, since if River wasn't in a coma she probably could have sensed something, even if he was just following Jayne. She was able to sense Jubal before, so this isn't outside the rules of the story.

Quote:
Someone -- again, I believe it may have been you -- painted this as a catastrophic loss for the Alliance.

Again no, that was either MKNickerson or Two. I thought the Front the Browncoats Op was actually a decent success for the Alliance, apart from the screw ups we can observe. They managed to trick a bunch of political dissenters into revealing themselves for easy removal and cleanup. Which is a pretty common entrapment and agent saboteur tactic used in reality.

Mal getting Zoe back and escaping is apparently just not really that high on the overall list of priorities for the Alliance I'm thinking. They're pissed about Miranda sure, but I'd imagine they more care about stuff that can topple their power base.

Where the Alliance screw ups piled up - predictably - was in the efforts to retrieve River. While the overall Op in terms of targeting dissidents was successful, the River part of it did involve a waste of a lot of resources for absolutely no gain and ultimately failure and some losses. They will continue to go after River, of course, but it will need more planning than for them to just throw whatever shit they have laying around at the problem. Hence, my argument why there would be an upper limit on how often they could try at River, and why in between those times Serenity could operate at the usual levels of evading the law.

Quote:
Jayne is sniffing around Mal's old haunts

Jayne waved them, which indicates that he definitely has the ability to contact them. Then there's the fact that Jayne personally knows the crew and as such those "haunts" that he's able to find them. And Jubal just followed Jayne.

Ultimately I'm not sure what you were expecting, these are comics based off a 12 year old sci fi tv show, which itself never had perfect writing but was entirely enjoyable. It's not going to be Shakespeare. The caliber of writing (and art) here isn't that different from Those Left Behind. Maybe you just don't like comics as a medium for these stories.

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Tuesday, July 8, 2014 2:12 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

Ultimately I'm not sure what you were expecting, these are comics based off a 12 year old sci fi tv show, which itself never had perfect writing but was entirely enjoyable. It's not going to be Shakespeare. The caliber of writing (and art) here isn't that different from Those Left Behind. Maybe you just don't like comics as a medium for these stories.

The comic left Serenity in a very bad place where the Alliance knows too much about the crew, except their coordinates at the moment, and the crew know nothing about who will be after them next comic. The Alliance has too much advantage over the crew and too much motivation to exterminate them. David versus Goliath had it easier than Serenity vs Alliance because there was only one man, Goliath, to slay.

In the next comics, the crew must depend upon the Alliance squandering the advantage and acting incompetently. It is not much fun to read a comic that depend on the Alliance's blunders, accidents, confusion, and poor planning, but those qualities will have to save Serenity next time.

If only the Alliance could lose all its paperwork on Serenity. Then the crew could go back to being ignored, mostly, like the TV show.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, July 13, 2014 12:51 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Damn, pick pick pick!
Fans are the worst critics I guess. . . . Damn the Torpedos!

It is actually "Damn the torpedoes, Full speed ahead!" The comic is not going full speed ahead. I think all engines have stopped. A little history:

Aboard Hartford, Admiral Farragut entered Mobile Bay, Alabama, 5 August 1864, in two columns, with armored monitors leading and a fleet of wooden ships following. When the lead monitor Tecumseh was demolished by a torpedo, the wooden ship Brooklyn stopped, and the line drifted in confusion toward Fort Morgan. As disaster seemed imminent, Farragut gave the orders embodied by these famous words. "Damn the torpedoes, Full speed ahead!" – www.history.navy.mil/trivia/trivia02.htm

The comic is adrift. Dark Horse has not ordered a new series. Where is Admiral Farragut? He needs to issue an order . . . for Serenity comics!

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, July 13, 2014 1:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Damn, pick pick pick!
Fans are the worst critics I guess.

They really are.

As time goes on with no new television episodes and the original Firefly episodes are looked at with more and more nostalgia, it will become that much harder for any new story in the verse to compete with what came before.

Fan satisfaction will continue to decrease, until the point where we will have people denouncing new material as garbage before they've even seen it.

I've watched this happen in other fandoms, and I have no doubt where we're heading. As this trend continues I'd recommend avoiding arguments with the more hard core and serious fans. They are the more likely to become angry and disillusioned.

Quote:
The comics have a built in hurdle, what with us really really wanting a tv show. I was entertained, enjoy the new directions (even though it's hard to give up the old), and pray we get more.

Thank you Zack Whedon (and Joss) and all the artists who contributed to a fine Firefly story, looking forward to many more. Damn the Torpedos!

The comic had a bit much going on, but very little was left unaddressed or unresolved, and there was a teaser for future stories. It was enjoyable, despite any flaws it had, and as such is a win in my book.

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Sunday, July 13, 2014 2:10 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
It was enjoyable, despite any flaws it had, and as such is a win in my book.

I say it is a win, too, if the hard cover Serenity comic sells well enough in November that Dark Horse orders another series of comics.

Preorder that comic. The future of Serenity depends upon it. www.tfaw.com/Profile/Serenity%3A-Leaves-On-The-Wind-HC___457868

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, July 15, 2014 10:57 AM

MOOSE

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Preorder that xxxx.The future of Serenity depends upon it.

Yeah, we've all heard that before. How many times now?

That said, I skipped buying the individual issues because I knew the compilation would be coming.

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Tuesday, July 15, 2014 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Damn, pick pick pick!
Fans are the worst critics I guess.

They really are.

As time goes on with no new television episodes and the original Firefly episodes are looked at with more and more nostalgia, it will become that much harder for any new story in the verse to compete with what came before.

Fan satisfaction will continue to decrease, until the point where we will have people denouncing new material as garbage before they've even seen it.

No, see, that's not how it works. That, in fact, is the exact opposite of how it works. Supply and demand. As less becomes available, it becomes more valuable, and viewed with a LESS jaded eye.

True, the fanbase may shrink over time, but the standards get LOWER.

My disillusionment with this particular arc isn't as a fan, but as a professional editor and writer. I expect a certain level of quality for my money, and I didn't get it. Nowhere close to it.

Now, that didn't stop me from getting every issue (multiple copies in some cases) -- again, the scarcity increasing value thing -- nor will it prevent me from buying at least one copy of the bound edition (possibly multiples to give away as gifts), because I want to support the franchise. But none of that changes the empirically weak writing of the series, and please don't try to paint me as some sort of angry fanboy for being disappointed that this story is not of the caliber I expect from this franchise.

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Tuesday, July 15, 2014 1:44 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by Moose:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Preorder that xxxx.The future of Serenity depends upon it.

Yeah, we've all heard that before. How many times now?

You're making me sound like a fool! To be worldly wise, you need be more cynical about the comic book industry. The more money Dark Horse makes on Serenity, the sooner new issues will be published. Make too little money and there might never be more Serenity. The same goes for the TV show and movie. That is the cold equations of the entertainment industry.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, July 15, 2014 3:19 PM

LITTLEMANLOVESFIRE

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I'm not sure what you were expecting, these are comics

Hi! Your assertion that for some reason expectations should be lowered because "comics" is way out of line.

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Tuesday, July 15, 2014 3:19 PM