REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

So how many of the 34 were you aware of?

POSTED BY: SOUPCATCHER
UPDATED: Sunday, January 23, 2005 06:28
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Tuesday, January 18, 2005 12:20 AM

SOUPCATCHER


So I was surfing one of the blogs I read on a daily basis (Eschaton) and saw a link to an article on Salon. The title of the article is, "The scandal sheet" and the author goes through and lists what they think are 34 scandals of the current administration along with the following information: brief description, why this is a problem, and what is being done about it. While I don't think that all of the things the author came up with qualify as a scandal, I was surprised at how many on the list I had heard about. Turns out I was familiar with 28 out of the 34.

I was curious about other fireflyfans awareness. So, quick question, how many of the 34 do you remember hearing something about?

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/01/18/scandal/
* you may have to watch a short advert to get a day pass to read the article.

Oh, and for the record, here are the ones that I had NOT heard anything about: 4, 8, 14, 20, 26, and 27.

---------------------
"What sort of raw meat do you people feed your cruiser captains, Hamish?" - Queen Elizabeth III of Manticore

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Tuesday, January 18, 2005 5:47 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
So I was surfing one of the blogs I read on a daily basis (Eschaton) and saw a link to an article on Salon. The title of the article is, "The scandal sheet" and the author goes through and lists what they think are 34 scandals of the current administration along with the following information: brief description, why this is a problem, and what is being done about it. While I don't think that all of the things the author came up with qualify as a scandal, I was surprised at how many on the list I had heard about. Turns out I was familiar with 28 out of the 34.

I was curious about other fireflyfans awareness. So, quick question, how many of the 34 do you remember hearing something about?

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/01/18/scandal/
* you may have to watch a short advert to get a day pass to read the article.

Oh, and for the record, here are the ones that I had NOT heard anything about: 4, 8, 14, 20, 26, and 27.

---------------------
"What sort of raw meat do you people feed your cruiser captains, Hamish?" - Queen Elizabeth III of Manticore



I think I can recall all but 13, 25, and 26...although the DeLay and Halliburton ones just sort of blend together in my mind as big lumps. I may not have heard of all of the individual accusations about them, but it's sometimes hard to tell if one violin is playing or not in the fortissimo symphony of blame.

Some of these are hardly earth-shaking - more the "appearance of impropriety" type. Some are only tangentinally related to the administration. And they're almost all being investigated by someone. Salon has their bias and spins the descriptions a bit, but that's to be expected.

Coincidentally, I was just reading an essay "the American Lenin" by L. Neil Smith, the Libertarian Scifi author, about another administration. In part...

Quote:


History tells us that Lincoln was a politically ambitious lawyer who eagerly prostituted himself to northern industrialists who were unwilling to pay world prices for their raw materials and who, rather than practice real capitalism, enlisted brute government force — "sell to us at our price or pay a fine that'll put you out of business" — for dealing with uncooperative southern suppliers. That's what a tariff's all about. In support of this "noble principle", when southerners demonstrated what amounted to no more than token resistance, Lincoln permitted an internal war to begin that butchered more Americans than all of this country's foreign wars — before or afterward — rolled into one.

Lincoln saw the introduction of total war on the American continent — indiscriminate mass slaughter and destruction without regard to age, gender, or combat status of the victims — and oversaw the systematic shelling and burning of entire cities for strategic and tactical purposes. For the same purposes, Lincoln declared, rather late in the war, that black slaves were now free in the south — where he had no effective jurisdiction — while declaring at the same time, somewhat more quietly but for the record nonetheless, that if maintaining slavery could have won his war for him, he'd have done that, instead.

The fact is, Lincoln didn't abolish slavery at all, he nationalized it, imposing income taxation and military conscription upon what had been a free country before he took over — income taxation and military conscription to which newly "freed" blacks soon found themselves subjected right alongside newly-enslaved whites. If the civil war was truly fought against slavery — a dubious, "politically correct" assertion with no historical evidence to back it up — then clearly, slavery won.

Lincoln brought secret police to America, along with the traditional midnight "knock on the door", illegally suspending the Bill of Rights and, like the Latin America dictators he anticipated, "disappearing" thousands in the north whose only crime was that they disagreed with him. To finance his crimes against humanity, Lincoln allowed the printing of worthless paper money in unprecedented volumes, ultimately plunging America into a long, grim depression — in the south, it lasted half a century — he didn't have to live through, himself.

In the end, Lincoln didn't unite this country — that can't be done by force — he divided it along lines of an unspeakably ugly hatred and resentment that continue to exist almost a century and a half after they were drawn. If Lincoln could have been put on trial in Nuremburg for war crimes, he'd have received the same sentence as the highest-ranking Nazis.


http://www.lincolnmyth.com/american_lenin.html

Makes the Bush crowd's foibles seem like chump change. Guess it just depends on how you look at things.


"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, January 18, 2005 8:54 AM

HERO


Hmmm...havn't read the whole article. But lets take the first one: Memogate.

Essentially Senate Republican committee staffers accessed Senate Democratic computers. The article is supposed to be about scandal from this administration. This scandal involves the Senate, not the White House.

Also, what makes a scandal? A man steals cigarettes from the QuickieMart and its just another crime. If the President did it, its a scandal.

Seems to me a scandal is not merely the act, but the actors as well.

H

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Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:52 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Yeah. I don't think anyone is going to mistake what side of the fence Salon is on. As far as Lincoln goes, I've always been surprised that the fact that more American-born soldiers died while he was President doesn't seem to affect his legacy. But I think the author of the excerpt you included stretches things just a bit in terms of what legitimately can be laid at Lincoln's feet. On a side note, whenever the discussion of why the Civil War was fought comes up I always ask myself one simple question: If I was a black man in the south, would I rather live pre-1861 or post-1865? It kind of puts everything else in perspective.

In terms of the Salon article, I really don't care about most of the things they came up with. I was just surprised, more than anything else, by how little press some of them have gotten. It seemed like you couldn't turn around a couple of years ago without being reminded of an investigation into something or other. Maybe I've gotten cynical over the past twenty years, but I guess I just expect politicians to be taking bribes and behaving in all sorts of unethical ways. So I'm pretty numb to those types of things.

What I do have a problem with is war profiteering - even though our businesses have a long history of engaging in this behavior. I don't know if anything that Halliburton is doing over in Iraq compares with what Armour did during the Spanish-American War but if their actions lead to our soldiers getting shafted there should be some serious repercussions (like, carthago delenda est style repercussions).

---------------------
"What sort of raw meat do you people feed your cruiser captains, Hamish?" - Queen Elizabeth III of Manticore

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Wednesday, January 19, 2005 1:43 AM

NEUTRINOLAD


Quote:

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
The title of the article is, "The scandal sheet" and the author goes through and lists what they think are 34 scandals of the current administration along with the following information: brief description, why this is a problem, and what is being done about it.



I didn't see Bernard Kerik(sp?), the second bogus "news release" recently produced for local news consumption, the Hawaii trip by the Homeland Security staff, or W's staff's claim that the Clintons vandalized the White House before leaving. Remember that last one? I always liked that one.

And so, what can we conclude?

That I spend way too much time paying attention to this stuff. I resolve to read only the sports page in future.

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Wednesday, January 19, 2005 7:45 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


Quote:

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Yeah. ...whenever the discussion of why the Civil War was fought comes up I always ask myself one simple question: If I was a black man in the south, would I rather live pre-1861 or post-1865? It kind of puts everything else in perspective.



Nicely put.

Quote:

In terms of the Salon article, I really don't care about most of the things they came up with. I was just surprised, more than anything else, by how little press some of them have gotten.


I like how John Stewart addressed this. "How come there aren't any gates?" "Cheney holds energy meetings.. won't tell anyone who he met or what was said ... and oil prices are higher than ever? ... Where's the gate?"


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Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:09 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Seems to me a scandal is not merely the act, but the actors as well.

So true. A man gets a blow job, and it's no big deal. But if the man is a Democratic President, instead of Republican Senator, it's a scandal.

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Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:37 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


The operative words here being "President" and "Senator." Plenty of Democratic Congressmen have gotten away with as much or more. And it is a special kind of nutty to imply that if a Republican President had had extramarital sex in the Whitehouse and then perjured himself in a federal court, that it wouldn't be a scandal.

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Thursday, January 20, 2005 5:57 PM

NEUTRINOLAD


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
And it is a special kind of nutty to imply that if a Republican President had had extramarital sex in the Whitehouse and then perjured himself in a federal court, that it wouldn't be a scandal.



And it would be particularly wacky to believe that a Republican Congress would even consider impeaching him for the offense.

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Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:06 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Maybe, maybe not. But I’m sure a Democratic Congress would jump at the chance with glee. Of course, that's assuming the Democrats ever manage to get the Congress back.

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Thursday, January 20, 2005 6:08 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Actually Bush Sr had a long-term mistress while President, when the Democrats held the Senate. But I suppose that doesn't count for some reason.

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Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:03 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Actually Bush Sr had a long-term mistress while President, when the Democrats held the Senate. But I suppose that doesn't count for some reason.

The reason is that it was an alleged “long-term mistress.” There was never any proof, or any evidence really. None that I’ve seen. And the only rumor I know of concerning such an affair was during his Vice-Presidency, not his Presidency. Not that I necessarily deny such rumors, but even Democrats can’t impose impeachment proceedings without some evidence. However, there’s Kennedy, FDR and Jefferson, all Democrats and all alleged to have had mistresses, none of them impeached. The ‘wounded Liberal in a cruel Republican world’ routine is really quite obviously pretense.

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Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:41 PM

NEUTRINOLAD


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
But I’m sure a Democratic Congress would jump at the chance with glee.



And therein lies the problem.

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Thursday, January 20, 2005 7:56 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


Quote:

Originally posted by NeutrinoLad:
Quote:


I didn't see Bernard Kerik(sp?), the second bogus "news release" recently produced for local news consumption, the Hawaii trip by the Homeland Security staff, or W's staff's claim that the Clintons vandalized the White House before leaving. Remember that last one? I always liked that one.



I remember when President Bush took office they said the Clinton Staffers removed all the "W" keys from the computer keyboards. ...
... Wacky fun - well hey, some people juggle geese.



Quote:


And so, what can we conclude?

That I spend way too much time paying attention to this stuff. I resolve to read only the sports page in future.



He he, I'm going to stick with the cryptoquotes and the comics.


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Thursday, January 20, 2005 8:15 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by NeutrinoLad:
And therein lies the problem.

Without question.

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Friday, January 21, 2005 5:22 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Finn,
Oh, I just made that comment to see how much of a hypocrite you are. I thought it would be amusing to watch you twist your integrity, honesty, and sense of reality to accommodate double, triple, quadruple, or any Nth degree standards to come up with the result you wanted. So here's some information. But don't expect me to reply to anything you might say. You performed beautifully, just like a trained chimp. But you was not as entertaining as I thought you might be.


MEET THE WORLD'S BIGGEST HYPOCRITE
WHEN IT comes to political hypocrites, Clinton impeachment prosecutor David P. Schippers wrote the book
Schippers -- chief investigative counsel for the House Judiciary Committee -- and his law-office manager Nancy Ruggero had a 25-year affair behind the back of Schippers' wife of 45 years, say sources.
And Schippers actually brought Ruggero into a House hearing room where he passionately presented his case against Clinton!

Hyde had carried on a five-year affair with Snodgrass's wife Cherie. Hyde admitted that the affair only ended when his own wife found out about it. Hyde was a rising star in Republican politics and Cherie Snodgrass was a beauty stylist. She was Hyde's trophy mistress, an attractive beautiful much younger woman that he flaunted for many years -- including some rather painful moments in front of Snodgrass.

Gingrich was known to force oral sex with interns and reportedly cheated on two of his three wives. He even served his first wife with divorce papers while she lying in a hospital bed fighting cancer so that he could marry a mistress.

And then : http://www.americaheldhostile.com/cheating.html
Has a long list of moralistic Republicans in and out of government who have infamously cheated on their spouses, including Bush, Dole, and Reagan.

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Friday, January 21, 2005 6:52 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Finn,
Oh, I just made that comment to see how much of a hypocrite you are. I thought it would be amusing to watch you twist your integrity, honesty, and sense of reality to accommodate double, triple, quadruple, or any Nth degree standards to come up with the result you wanted. So here's some information. But don't expect me to reply to anything you might say. You performed beautifully, just like a trained chimp. But you was not as entertaining as I thought you might be.

Right. In other words, you're trying to cover your retreat. Mmmbah-bye.

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Saturday, January 22, 2005 7:07 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


OK, I will reply. I did provide real info on republican presidents, senators, representatives, mayors, prosecutors etc who had mistresses while persecuting Clinton, while in office, out of office etc. But you blew by that. Why is that? Got no reply to data?

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Saturday, January 22, 2005 7:10 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


MEET THE WORLD'S BIGGEST HYPOCRITE
WHEN IT comes to political hypocrites, Clinton impeachment prosecutor David P. Schippers wrote the book
Schippers -- chief investigative counsel for the House Judiciary Committee -- and his law-office manager Nancy Ruggero had a 25-year affair behind the back of Schippers' wife of 45 years, say sources.
And Schippers actually brought Ruggero into a House hearing room where he passionately presented his case against Clinton!

Hyde had carried on a five-year affair with Snodgrass's wife Cherie. Hyde admitted that the affair only ended when his own wife found out about it. Hyde was a rising star in Republican politics and Cherie Snodgrass was a beauty stylist. She was Hyde's trophy mistress, an attractive beautiful much younger woman that he flaunted for many years -- including some rather painful moments in front of Snodgrass.

Gingrich was known to force oral sex with interns and reportedly cheated on two of his three wives. He even served his first wife with divorce papers while she lying in a hospital bed fighting cancer so that he could marry a mistress.

And then : http://www.americaheldhostile.com/cheating.html
Has a long list of moralistic Republicans in and out of government who have infamously cheated on their spouses, including Bush, Dole, and Reagan.

Sen. Strom Thurmond Cheated on his fourth wife at age 88!!

Rep. Henry Hyde Broke up a family during his seven year adulterous affair!
Mike Bowers Cheated on his wife for FIFTEEN YEARS!
George Bush Linda Tripp says had he an affair with a woman named "Jennifer"
Newt Gingrich Dumped his ex-wife while she was in a hospital bed suffering from cancer....
Bob Dole Cheated on his first wife with his current wife, Elizabeth Dole.
Former Rep. Bob Dornan Reported to have cheated on and beaten his wife.
John Linder Has a wandering eye for his female staff members.
Ronald Reagan Dumped Jane Wyman by cheating on her with several Hollywood starlets
William Cohen Dumped his white wife for a new black one.
Guy Millner Has been married three times, partly because he has sex with women he isn't married to....
Rush Limbaugh Fat as he may be, he cheated on two of his three wives...
Mitch Skandalakis Hired hookers from his Las Vegas hotel room!
Michael Deaver Was so drunk he doesn't remember hiring hookers...
John Warner Dumped his wife for Elizabeth Taylor...
Bill Randall A Florida Congressional candidate and minister, he fathered an illegitimate child during his affair!
Bill McCartney Promise Keepers founder who didn't keep his Promise to his wife and then lied about it for 20 years!
Rep. Dan Burton Had at least six adulterous affairs, and fathered a bastard son who, today, he ignores!!
Rep. Bob Barr Cheated on all three of his wives - and coerced one into having an abortion - then lied about it!
Rudolph Giuliani Boffs his assistant in Gracie Mansion while his wife stays home with the kids!
Sen. Strom Thurmond Cheated on his fourth wife at age 88!!
Gilbert Davis Paula Jones' attorney, who allowed himself to be videotaped DrUnK during his adultery!
Bob Packwood Drank huge amounts of hard liquor and then tongue-kissed his female staffers against their will!
Gov. Kirk Fordice Got so hopped up by his mistress that he crashed his Jeep Cherokee and got himself hurt!
Beverly Russell The Christian Coalition coordinator who molested his stepdaughter Susan Smith, who later killed her own kids.
Marv Albert Calls himself a Republican, bites his longtime mistresses, and has sex with her while wearing women's panties!
N.C. Rep. Sue Myrick - Who cheated on her husband and left him for another man!
LA. Rep. Bob Livingston - The GOP Speaker-to-never-be, who cheated on his wife Bonnie - with at least four women!
Michael Huffington - The Former GOP Congressman who cheated on his wife Arianna - with other men!
Oklahoma Lt. Gov. Mary Fallin - Who had an adulterous affair with her Security Guard - a state trooper!
Rep. Helen Chenoweth - Who screwed most every married male member of the Idaho Legislature!
The Charleston County, S.C. Solicitor, a Republican, who had an extramarital affair - a GAY affair with another man.....
Jim Bakker - Who eventually got locked up in chains and sent to federal prison.
Jimmy Swaggart - Who broke down crying after he got busted with an ugly hooker!

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Saturday, January 22, 2005 7:39 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
OK, I will reply. I did provide real info on republican presidents, senators, representatives, mayors, prosecutors etc who had mistresses while persecuting Clinton, while in office, out of office etc. But you blew by that. Why is that? Got no reply to data?

There are just as many Democratic “presidents, senators, representative, mayors, prosecutors etc who had mistresses.” You’re proving nothing. You’ve compiled a list of things that demonstrate absolutely nothing to confirm your victimhood, and then you dance around, as if you’ve accomplished something. This, more then anything else, demonstrates how shallow your argument is, and how willing you are to confirm your own prejudice. The problem is that you live in a fantasy world, where anyone or anything that is Republican is by definition evil and anyone or anything that is a Postmodern Liberal Democrat is divine. So you invent this story that Republicans cheat on their wives and get away with it, but poor Clinton got his wire waxed and he’s so mistreated for it. And you buy into it completely. You, and Liberals like you, are the only people who seem to be concerned with Clinton’s blowjob. Clinton wasn’t impeached for getting a blowjob. He was impeached because there were so many scandals of such huge repercussion and so much corruption during his administration that people just got fed up with it.

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Saturday, January 22, 2005 5:45 PM

NEUTRINOLAD


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Clinton wasn’t impeached for getting a blowjob. He was impeached because there were so many scandals of such huge repercussion and so much corruption during his administration that people just got fed up with it.



Which begs the question, how did Reagan, LBJ, W avoid the axe? Because, if you think the minor league antics of the Clintons (Whitewater, Hillary's futures trading, puh-lease) were justification for impeachment, whoo-hooo man do we have about a dozen doozies of legal procedures coming up against the current administration, boy howdy.
And if you're as committed to wanting to do what's right over partisan politics as I believe you are Finn, then you'll go back and check for yourself. And I don't mean at the cop-out discredited sources, like the NYT, or NewsMax, or DailyKos, or the Washington Times.

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Saturday, January 22, 2005 7:49 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by NeutrinoLad:
Which begs the question, how did Reagan, LBJ, W avoid the axe? Because, if you think the minor league antics of the Clintons (Whitewater, Hillary's futures trading, puh-lease) were justification for impeachment, whoo-hooo man do we have about a dozen doozies of legal procedures coming up against the current administration, boy howdy.

Not doing what Liberals want is not an impeachable offensive, at least in current law, so I think the Bush Administration is safe.

I don’t know for sure whether the activity during the Clinton administration was necessarily worthy of impeachment or not, but Clinton brought it on himself. All administrations have a seedy side to them; Clinton’s was just bigger; more obvious and/or less justifiable then recent administrations. He ran the Whitehouse like a frat party, and Liberals act shocked when they find out corruption was rampant.

But setting all that aside, it should be noted that Johnson was a Democrat, so your own examples belie rue’s argument that Democrats are picked on in a cruel Republican world. It’s just not true. Then of course there’s Nixon. An example you left out. I'm sure many Liberals have not granted a fraction of the time they spend worrying about Clinton to ponder whether Nixon’s threatened impeachment was justifiable.

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Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:28 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Sen. Strom Thurmond Cheated on his fourth wife at age 88!!




I have to admit a grudging admiration for an 88 year old man who is ABLE to do this.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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