REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Global warming and pollution... what are YOU going to do, or not do?

POSTED BY: NEEDLESEYE
UPDATED: Saturday, September 3, 2005 02:35
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VIEWED: 1411
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Saturday, December 18, 2004 5:25 PM

NEEDLESEYE


Ok, been following the Global Warming thread, but I think I want to hear what one does about it.
Do you recycle, car pool, choose a hybrid car? Do those of you who disagree that humans are adding to the problem not do anything? It just seems to me that pollution really begins locally, at your house. Just curious.

Myself, I follow my city's recycling plan, and when I need to, I seek out other places to dispose of paints, styrofoam, whatever. I got mad when I moved here because they didn't take all the plastics that the last town I lived in did.
I cloth diaper my boy. (That's right, you too can save the planet from nearly 2 tons of diaper waste per child) edited to add a source, http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/5503.html
I carpool with my mother-in-law a lot for shopping trips. The result, I have a 96 saturn with only about 45,000 miles on it.
My bad is, I've gone thru several trees worth of paper plates in the last year because with my schedule, my 1yo., and trying to get dishes done just hasn't worked out for me! I guilt trip myself for it on a regular basis, as small as it may seem.

Oh, and given funds, instead of wood flooring that is so popular, I would chose bamboo. It takes much less time to mature than trees. I think it's much prettier too.



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Sunday, December 19, 2004 4:57 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Recycle ? Sure, that's just common sense. Drive a economical vehicle ? Why not. No need to drive a monster ride unless you need to. As Ben Franklin said.. 'a penny saved is a penny earned'. Live life in moderation.....most of the time.


But am I going to anything different than I normally would for the sake of global warming ?

Nope. Not a gorram thing.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, December 19, 2004 7:00 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Recycle thru the city's recyling program, energy-efficient car (not hybrid but 33 mpg), perennial light-turner-outer, replaced my old wash machine with a front loader (that machine is awesome BTW), watch the thermostat, buy paper products - TP, paper towels, tissues, paper plates etc.- made from RECYCLED PAPER. (I have to get it on-line at drugstore.com, seventh generation, or whole foods, where I also get fully biodegradeable non petroleum-based detergents.) I try not to buy too much "stuff" that we don't need... not so much to save the planet as to save my sanity since I live with two pack-rats who refuse to get rid of ANYTHING... repair first before replace... just normal conservation-type activities.


Since we are looking at rennovating our house, we will choose energy-saving options (dual-glaze, low e windows, extra attic insulation etc). because right now our '50s-built house leaks like a sieve!


I also give generously to Californians Against Waste (CAW) since they have been the driving force behind recycling in CA, to TREE PEOPLE whose sole purpose is to plant trees, and other organizations that bring this issue to the public and our legislators.

I'm sure I've forgotten a whole bunch of stuff. OH, and BTW- I cloth diapered my baby too!

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Sunday, December 19, 2004 10:10 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Turn down the heat and wear a sweater, etc

We don't personally own a car, but if we did, we'd use it sparingly and buy a *very* fuel efficient one, hybrid if possible, tends to be a $$$ issue.

Walk, yes it is still possible in todays world as well as public transportation.

Recycling is always a good idea.

Sending letters to my MP and the various ministers that have influence in these matters. Signing petitions that fight for these things because we typically don't have time.

I could go on, but needless to say, there are *tonnes* of things that one can do to reduce the amount of pollution that we send into our enviornment.

All evidence points towards that this is happening. But even if it isn't, the benifits of reducing emissions are many. One of them being $ savings. Others including increased health, etc.

So, even if you don't believe, then it is benifitical to do something. Here's acouple links.

From David Suzuki's site http://www.davidsuzuki.org/ :
http://www.davidsuzuki.org/WOL/Challenge/

The 1 tonne challenge from http://climatechange.gc.ca/ :
http://climatechange.gc.ca/onetonne/english/index.asp?pid=81

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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Sunday, December 19, 2004 11:06 PM

GRIMMA


To me it's not only a matter of Global Warming, it's also about preserving the various resources for the future generations - and not spend too much money

Small car, car-pooling when possible, bike when possible, recycling, reasonable heating, doors "closed" (they're a little bit open to let the cats move), lights off when not in the room, tap not left open when not necessary, economical flush, use of the same big bags I own when food shopping, not buying stuff when there's too much plastic packaging, switching completely off devices such as TV, VCR, etc., using re-usable stuff and not disposable stuff... I should also buy food at the local market and not frozen and/or already cooked food at the supermarket...

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Monday, December 20, 2004 7:02 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
I also give generously to Californians Against Waste (CAW) since they have been the driving force behind recycling in CA, to TREE PEOPLE whose sole purpose is to plant trees, and other organizations that bring this issue to the public and our legislators.



I feel the same way. I give to the Federation for Unclean Commericialism, the Ohio Foundation the Future Trampling of Renewable Earth Ecology, and Humanity Upbringing Great Global Ecological Ruin

Yup the (FUC), (OFFTREE), and (HUGGER). I give to them as often as I can.

There's lots of stuff I do to reflect my love for the enviroment. Ny friend and I celebrate Earth day by trudging off into the State Game lands and cutting down a tree. Then we change our oil, careful not to let the oil spill down the sewer (thats illegal). We take the oil and dump it directly into the Cuyahoga River. In the spring I spray pesticides, in the summer I fish (catch, remove fins, release)in the fall I hunt deer...by deer I mean anything that is furry and moves, and in the winter I dump salt by the ton.

I never recycle. My neihbors try to, I always take their recycle bags from the recycle dumpster and put it in with the regular. I try to waste enough for ten people and think about the people of California while I'm doing it.

Am I evil? No. I merely desire global warming. This morning it was very cold outside. When the thermometer reads 2 degrees at 11am then I say we NEEDS us some global warming.

Ok. I'm not really that bad. I do favor more coal. I live less then 100 miles from one of the largest natural gas reserves in North America, but its unexploited because we might hurt Lake Erie so my gas bills are barely managable and my elderly neighbors are forced to make the choice between food and heat.

So if those so called scientists can gather in Rio in December they can take their recomendations and shove them up their collective asses. Come to Cleveland in December and talk global warming. I dare you.

H

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Monday, December 20, 2004 7:33 AM

THATWEIRDGIRL


the standard recylcing and carpooling things. There is one other thing Jake and I do that just seems geeky to other poeple, but it's helpful. We read all our books electronically. Neither of us have bought a hard copy book in years. Think of all that paper. When you have nine dune sized books on your pda you begin to realize how many trees that would have equaled. We have one printer, for his photographs, and we use that maybe six times a year. We are very thrifty in the paper department. Dorks, but tree saving dorks. We've even got my mother and his dad converted to reading electronically. I take my news and magazines on my pda too.

www.thatweirdgirl.com

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Monday, December 20, 2004 2:41 PM

PIRATEJENNY


The eniviromental issues is a worldwide issue and it needs to be addressed and dealt with by the world community, if any real changes are going to be made..until then, I doubt seriously if anything is really going to help,

but I look at it like this, where not really destroying the earth, were destroying ourselves, and making this planet unsustainable for ourselves, , the earth will be here long after we are gone, ....

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Monday, December 20, 2004 7:53 PM

SIGMANUNKI


@Hero:
Pick a fight lately?

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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Monday, December 20, 2004 7:56 PM

SIGMANUNKI


@ThatWeirdGirl:
Where do you get your e-books? Do they have a math section where you get them? Do they come in pdf or any other portible file format? etc.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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Tuesday, December 21, 2004 5:51 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
[B]@Hero:
Pick a fight lately?



I'm a lover not a fighter.

I love being a Republican. I love putting people in jail (especially for the holidays). I love sticking it to liberals (especially young attractive female liberals). I love baseball, hotdogs, apple pie, and my jeep. I love the 3-11 Brownies. I love seeing America "expressing herself" by killing terrorists here, there, and everywhere. I love my Momma. I love winning money for my City. I love Grandma's cooking. I love Firefly. I have an unhealthy passion for tabletop wargames from the late '70s and early '80s (SPI, AH, GDW, etc). I love a big yard. I love teaching my old dog new tricks. And finally, I love you damn liberal Firefliers (best damn liberals I ever laughed at and made fun of...cept this one girl back in college who I made run crying from the room after explaining the nature of terrorism in the wake of a pre-9/11 terrorist attack).

H

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Tuesday, December 21, 2004 7:35 AM

THATWEIRDGIRL


SigmaNunki,

I get them lots o places. Amazon sells ebooks--though they don't price them well. You can try plamone, ebooks, palm digital media, ereader, gutenberg(free) just to name a few. They are everywhere. For hard to find books, folks post bits and peices of books in threads to allow others to peice them back togther, though I don't condone that particular method. Or you can make your own with a scanner, text editor, and a free download ap. I use DropBook on my laptop to convert any text to ebook. There are libraries online with ebooks too. Of course p2p doesn't just pertain to music

Math? Pearson Education publishers have their books available in eformat these days.

www.thatweirdgirl.com

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Tuesday, December 21, 2004 7:56 PM

NEEDLESEYE


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
[B]@Hero:
Pick a fight lately?


I'm a lover not a fighter.
H



Would it be goofy to say you're my Hero?

I like your humor/sarcasm. It's so refreshing.
You make me want to burn tires in my backyard, just because it sounds more fun than washing loads of baby diapers everyday. JK .
...oh your were being sarcastic right? Cuz if you do pluck fins off fish and throw them back...well shame on you!

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Tuesday, December 21, 2004 9:37 PM

SOUPCATCHER


I also enjoy Hero's sarcasm. Or maybe dry wit would be a better way to phrase it. Come to think of it, maybe the British invasion has already started . Whatever it is, the opportunity to laugh is a good thing.

In regards to this thread...

I guess my main goal is to live in the world and not just on it (to borrow a phrase I heard once that I really liked). So I try to not take too much. Recycling, composting, walking/biking to campus and the store and things like that. The city we live in has it's own utility company that is pretty good at investing in wind farms. I practice catch and release but that's really cause I'm not that good a fisherman so I don't catch too many fish and also because there are so many chemical adviseries for the areas I like to fish that I haven't eaten anything out of the water in years. We buy as much of our food as possible from California growers and also try to buy American made products (but that's getting harder and harder to do these days) and try to do business only with places where the workers are organized (I grew up in a union household and old habits die hard). There's probably other stuff but the main theme is that we are pretty frugal but when we do spend money we try to keep it in the community. Oh, and try to limit the amount of plastic that we purchase. That and no fast food. Oops. I guess I got away from the global warming and pollution thing.

The areas that I really need to work on... Well, I use a LOT of paper. Whether it is from printing or buying books. I try to mainly buy used books for my pleasure reading but I still buy a lot of them. So my paper usage is a definite area of improvement. I also generate a fair number of cigarette butts each day. I always throw them away but I'm sure they will sit in a landfill for thousands of years.

It's not much but it's a start.

There are three kinds of people: fighters, lovers, and screamers.

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Wednesday, December 22, 2004 7:48 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
I also enjoy Hero's sarcasm. Or maybe dry wit would be a better way to phrase it.


Now stop it. Your gonna make me blush.

Quote:


I guess my main goal is to live in the world and not just on it. So I try to not take too much. Recycling, composting, walking/biking to campus and the store and things like that.


I wish more people thought this way. Then there would be more for me. If more people recycled, walked to work, etc then I could drive guilt free, gas would be cheap, and the roads free of traffic. A perfect world. Just don't cross against the light. If its just me, I aint slowing down cause some idiot can't look both ways.

Quote:


The city we live in has it's own utility company that is pretty good at investing in wind farms.


Mine too. Only we were smart enough to avoid the "wind farm" scam (they look nice, but are not economical). Result: during the blackout every community around us was dark, but our city had power. The biggest problem is the utiltiy delinquents. These are people who sign up for services and then don't pay. Hundreds of thousands of dollars we could be using to improve and expand services and infrastructure or maybe employ more police. Instead one of my jobs is to hunt these people down and make them pay. And I'm very, very good at my job.
Quote:


It's not much but it's a start.



Don't be too hard on yourself. Every little bit helps those of us who do nothing.

My suggestion. California needs to get rid of its SUVs. Some rich fellow in San Diego does not need a 4WD. But single working mothers in NE Ohio need 4WDs in the winter to get to work. NEED them. Fuel efficiency, emissions be damned. Look out my window. SNOW. More snow falling. Covered roads. Snowed Sunday. Snowed all last week. Will snow until April. Scientists and greenies need to stop preaching against vehicles that I admit make no sense in the land of eternal sunshine, but are needed in larger numbers here in the snow belted northern tier states.

H

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Wednesday, December 22, 2004 3:18 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:

Scientists and greenies need to stop preaching against vehicles that I admit make no sense in the land of eternal sunshine, but are needed in larger numbers here in the snow belted northern tier states.



Um, sorry, but you're talking to someone from Winter-peg here. You do not need a SUV to do such things in winter. You just need sensible tires and driving habits.

And if your city doesn't clean the streets promptly nor properly, complain to the city, not to the "scientists and greenies."

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 9:45 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


maybe it exists, but it seems we need more scientific study

New Orleans was hit bad, forest fire in Europe and many homes damaged in Alabama

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 11:11 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
I merely desire global warming. This morning it was very cold outside. When the thermometer reads 2 degrees at 11am then I say we NEEDS us some global warming.

Hero, you dumass, GW (not the pres) will ultimatly bring on a new Ice Age!
And you'll get to see it's beginning before you hit 60!!
No stoppin' it now. We could all live in caves and never burn another drop of fossil fuel, and it wouldn't change what's goin' down.
Don't feel guilty about Global Warming - ANY of us!
There's absolutly nothing we can do now, 'cept invest in snow tractor and extreme temperature clothing companies!

And you, Hero, can spearhead the new legislation needed for the coming frostyness; there'll be lots of hangings necessary for those who steal snow boots, dogsleds and such!

To coldly go where no one has gone before Chrisisall

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 11:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Hahaha!

You know what I'm doing about global warming?? Well, ever since I read "Mother of Storms" (I highly recommend 25% of the book) I absolutely refuse to move to Florida, the Gulf Coast, the barrier islands or any other of them low-lying, vulnerable pieces of almost-real-estate that will be scoured off the face of the earth in the next ten years!

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 11:34 AM

CHRISISALL


Very prudent indeed! Move inland to brace for it.
And watch The Day After Tomorrow, it ain't a very good flick, but it'll get your mind right about the cold.

ChrisisallBRRRRR

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 11:40 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by JaynezTown:
maybe it exists, but it seems we need more scientific study

New Orleans was hit bad, forest fire in Europe and many homes damaged in Alabama

Yeah, the Gulf...and the tsunami in the Pacific. More to come.
Question is: how much more will it take before we all agree this planet is changing?

We are livin' in interesting times Chrisisall

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 4:04 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


As for what I do about global warming, the answer is nothing, intentionally. I receive the IPCC report, because for some reason I’m a contributor I think. I have no idea why or how. I’ve yet to see any reason to be concerned that it is a threat. Too much of the science is hockey and too much of the politics is more based on a desire for socialism then any help for the environment. One of my biggest pet peeves are global warming activists, because so many of them are more interested in a Left-wing agenda then the environment, especially the doomsday types, who are drooling over the socialist policies they can push down the throats of people terrified by a threat that has little to no scientific bases. I don’t know what bothers me more the socialism or the entire lack of concern for nature.

As far as the environment is concerned, I’m a big outdoorsmen. I spend a lot of time enjoying wilderness environments. I backpack and climb mountains, often at the same time. I recycle everything, even what the city won’t pick up. I store my recyclables in the garage in big bins until someone comes and gets it or I have time to load it up and take it to the center myself. I heat or cool my house to maintain a temperature between the range ~60 to ~85 degrees. The larger margin allows me to reduce the amount of time my heat pump is running (it also keeps away unwanted relatives.) I use fans or space heaters which are more cost effective. Gas consumption was a big contributor to my choice in all three of the cars I’ve owned in my life. I get my gas almost exclusively from the BP, which is a major conflict for me, because I’m also real big into buying American. I’m a huge supporter of Hydrogen fuel, and even did some work in that area, although quite minimal. This is how much of a fanatic I am, I carry my burlap bags to the grocery store, because I don’t want those damn plastic bags to carry home and throw away. I get a lot of funny looks for that one, but I hate those damn plastic bags.

I get up in the morning, sit and watch the sun come up over the pristine foothills of the Arsenal from my balcony, while I sip my Italian Roast Maxwell House (American brand). And if I’m lucky I can hear clap and echo of munitions testing and I’m off to work.

Oh, I almost forgot, I use only florescent light bulbs.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 4:58 PM

THEGREYJEDI


I'm going to start a plastic burning business with franchises based right next to wildlife preserves. I also promise to drive an out of tune vehicle that gets 3 gallons to the mile. Finally, I will give my support and donations to companies with histories of massive air pollution and burning.





In all actuallity, I just plan to keep my car in tune, recycle as I can, carpool. Common sense stuff, like what Auraptor said.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Chief Engineer - USS SereniTREE
http://tomeofgrey.blogspot.com
Real Fans Wait - 09/30/05

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 7:35 PM

SPAGHETTI


Finn mac Cumhall,

i applaude your efforts as an outdoorsman, however, you mad some statements that are somewhat illogical.
"Too much of the science is hockey and too much of the politics is more based on a desire for socialism then any help for the environment."

i think that you are incorrect about the science. Many of the dead on solid scientific conclusions have been muddled deliberately by notably conservative elements. You remember the "gentleman" whose only job in the Whitehouse was to "edit" (a polite term for creating complete fabrication of results) the climate reports made by government scientists? He was NOT a scientist by any means, and after his job description was published, he went back into the industry he came from: The OIL industry. In short, his job was to LIE to the public.

The process of science moves on, notwithstanding the current administration's attempt to block the truth. Measure again, and again, in many different ways and then cross-check the results. For example, the discrepancies from the ground based temperature measurments, balloon born and satellite temperature measurements have now been reconciled. All are now in complete agreement: Global Warming is a FACT.

As for the socialist agendas to which you allude: The problem is a global problem with a global SOCIETY. Yes, a significant portion of the CO2 comes from the 3rd world. A social solution seems in order. Poor dirt farmers cooking over wood/peat/coke stoves, using slash and burn agrarian methods. You could order them to stop, and then watch as they STARVE. What's the alternative? Simply kill them? Or perhaps we could sacrifice some of our overall wealth and prosperity to make change.

We could do nothing. We watch as the concentrations of CO2 go up, and then watch as CH4 concentrations rise as the Arctic permafrost thaws and begins to rot. i can see it in the atmospheric FTIR spectra. If we don't use a "socialist" type of solution "there", we will be using one HERE. What do you call all of the "assistance" going to New Orleans, LA and Mississippi? Do you think they're going to PAY for all of the men and material moving to the south? Hardly! BTW: That's socialism in action.

However, i really do admire your commitment to the the environment by your actions. i find most "outdoorsmen" share the same values to the environment.

One thing PLEASE: Stop listening to Fox News, and start listening to NPR. Recent studies show that listeners to NPR are usually correct (70- 80%), while listeners to Fox and simlar right wing broadcasters are more likey to be WRONG, and they were also be MUCH more likely to be dead on certain they were correct. i learned a new word from that study: "Pseudo-certainty".


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Thursday, September 1, 2005 8:03 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Spaghetti:
Global Warming is a FACT.

So what? The mean global temperature goes up and down all the time. That’s certainly as much a fact, for all we know.
Quote:

Originally posted by Spaghetti:
As for the socialist agendas to which you allude: The problem is a global problem with a global SOCIETY. Yes, a significant portion of the CO2 comes from the 3rd world. A social solution seems in order. Poor dirt farmers cooking over wood/peat/coke stoves, using slash and burn agrarian methods. You could order them to stop, and then watch as they STARVE. What's the alternative? Simply kill them? Or perhaps we could sacrifice some of our overall wealth and prosperity to make change.

Of course, the only solution is world wide socialist reform. Even though, the Kyoto Accord, if perfectly implemented (and assumed to work) will barely make a dent. It’s a solution that even its supporter admit won’t work, so the reason they are supporting it can’t be for the environment. I’m not that dumb. But if you don’t agree with it, then it can only be because you want brown people to starve. There’s so much political nonsense floating around this global warming stuff.
Quote:

Originally posted by Spaghetti:
One thing PLEASE: Stop listening to Fox News, and start listening to NPR. Recent studies show that listeners to NPR are usually correct (70- 80%), while listeners to Fox and simlar right wing broadcasters are more likey to be WRONG, and they were also be MUCH more likely to be dead on certain they were correct. i learned a new word from that study: "Pseudo-certainty".

If the NPR people are so damn smart, then why can’t they pay for their own network?
Quote:

Originally posted by Spaghetti:
However, i really do admire your commitment to the the environment by your actions. i find most "outdoorsmen" share the same values to the environment.

Indeed. No greater love for the environment will be found then a person who is will to trudge low-impact through the mountains. I know people who pack out their own crap, just to keep from making an impact. I'm not that fanatical, but I'm proud to say that I've never left behind anything that wouldn't completely and harmlessly degrade in under a months time.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 9:50 PM

OURMRREYNOLDS


Hey guys, have you researched recycling or does it just sound good? I have heard convincing arguments that recycling anything but aluminum causes MORE pollution than using new. We don't have the tech yet to make it earth- friendly. Good idea, but wrong time for it just yet. Also the argument that there are more trees now than before because lumberjacks ain't so stupid they'd chainsaw there way out of a job. Besides, most of our oxygen comes from the ocean (plankton and such). As to global warming, our planet heats and freezes on its own, even without our help. Even if we could control that, is it a good idea? Some of this stuff I believe and some I don't, but I love playing devil's advocate, and can't stay away from a good debate. By the same token, I love seeing Hummers on the road. I hope gas goes up to $546 per gallon. Then humanity, and it's technology will be FORCED to evolve. A hardcore global disaster would give us incentive do do something serious with our floundering space program. A little Darwin-esque I admit, but name 3 times humanity did something right immediately just because it was morally correct. Now name 3 times we achieved something phenominal due to incredible crisis. Which list was easier to make?

I am planning on growing a big black moustache. I'm a traditionalist.

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Friday, September 2, 2005 2:18 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by OurMrReynolds:
Hey guys, have you researched recycling or does it just sound good? I have heard convincing arguments that recycling anything but aluminum causes MORE pollution than using new. We don't have the tech yet to make it earth- friendly. Good idea, but wrong time for it just yet. Also the argument that there are more trees now than before because lumberjacks ain't so stupid they'd chainsaw there way out of a job. Besides, most of our oxygen comes from the ocean (plankton and such). As to global warming, our planet heats and freezes on its own, even without our help. Even if we could control that, is it a good idea? Some of this stuff I believe and some I don't, but I love playing devil's advocate, and can't stay away from a good debate. By the same token, I love seeing Hummers on the road. I hope gas goes up to $546 per gallon. Then humanity, and it's technology will be FORCED to evolve. A hardcore global disaster would give us incentive do do something serious with our floundering space program. A little Darwin-esque I admit, but name 3 times humanity did something right immediately just because it was morally correct. Now name 3 times we achieved something phenominal due to incredible crisis. Which list was easier to make?

I am planning on growing a big black moustache. I'm a traditionalist.




There is much truth in what you say, despite that many won't want to hear it. However, what about recyclilng of paper, plastic? I know those are both huge industries, and seem like they've been going on for decades. While I don't have any research to back it up, it seems that there'd be more than just aluminum that's being recycled economically/ ecologically. Just a thought.



" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, September 2, 2005 4:23 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


No, recycling aluminum does NOT cause more pollution than mining it fresh. Being a chemist working in air pollution regulation, I know quite a bit about industrial processes and I work with a lot of engineers. I also reviewed and toured a local aluminum recycling plant. Refining bauxite is an extremely energy intensive operation that requires huge amounts of electricity and fluoride to reduce the oxide to the metal. Recycling aluminum really only requires a chipper, chip dryer and regular metal-melting crucible. Don't know where that notion came from... probably one of those urban legend things that makes the rounds.

Edited to add: I misread the post. But I also know about glass recycling. Recycled glass ("cullet") melts at a much lower temperature than virgin sand, so the energy savings alone (less CO2, less NOx) makes glass recycling a positive environmental option. In fact, our local glass plants throw cullet into their furances to reduce NOx pollution to acceptable levels... It also helps them with their energy bills.

I haven't tracked paper recycling. I know there are considerable problems "de-inking" POST consumer waste. On the other hand, industry scrap is a breeze to recycle and is a clear winner.

I guess it depends on what kind of recycled paper product you want to make. If you want to make whiter-than-white paper you're going to spend a lot of energy de-inking and (peroxide) bleaching post-consumer waste. On the other hand, if you're making brown paper towels and brown napkins and slightly "speckly" toilet paper... like the kind I buy (which BTW works great) then between forest preservation, lumber transportation, paper production (requires a lot of water) and landfill preservation, recycling paper prolly comes out with a slight edge. If virgin timber harvest wasn't so heavily SUBSIDIZED by the "get the cut out" Forest Service recycled paper would be economically more viable.

What is REALLY a problem is recycling plastic. Too many kinds and not enough market for the recycled product. And I hate those plastic bags too.

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Friday, September 2, 2005 4:32 AM

SPINLAND


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
But single working mothers in NE Ohio need 4WDs in the winter to get to work. NEED them. Fuel efficiency, emissions be damned. Look out my window. SNOW. More snow falling. Covered roads. Snowed Sunday.


Bullshit. We live in upstate NY, where it REALLY snows, plus constant lake effect snowfall coming off Lake Ontario. My wife and I both drive little front-wheel-drive economy cars, and we do just fine; so do thousands of others here. No, the cars we generally see ending up in ditches are SUVs, driven by idiots who think they've bought themselves "get out of jail, free" cards exempting them from simple physics. Slippery roads and four small points of contact are the same, no matter how much horsepower you hook up to your tires. We've never so much as swapped ends even in the worst snow/freezing rain conditions here.

If the streets in some Ohio town reqire 4WD to get through them during winter, the government of that town is shamefully inadequate to keeping them properly plowed. Simple as that.

----
I can see you.

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Friday, September 2, 2005 5:17 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


What am I prepared to do about worldwide climate changes and pollution levels?

Might as well ask me what I'm prepared to do about the next rainstorm.

Get out of the rain. Try to stay dry.

--Anthony


"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, September 2, 2005 6:41 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Question is: how much more will it take before we all agree this planet is changing?


Bout the same time ya'll admit George W. Bush is a good President (or even admit he won the 2000 election).

H

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Friday, September 2, 2005 7:08 AM

SIMONWHO


See, we'll admit that Bush is a good President the day Hell freezes over, which will never happen.

On the other hand, when the Earth freezes over, you'll have to admit the planet is changing.

Thankfully some of us will be kept warm by burning the bodies of all the lawyers (living or dead, doesn't really matter).

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Friday, September 2, 2005 7:29 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by SimonWho:
See, we'll admit that Bush is a good President the day Hell freezes over, which will never happen.

On the other hand, when the Earth freezes over, you'll have to admit the planet is changing.

Thankfully some of us will be kept warm by burning the bodies of all the lawyers (living or dead, doesn't really matter).



How bout if the Earth freezes over I admit I'm wrong, if it doesn't you admit your wrong, and if half freezes and half doesn't we both convert to a third party (Republicrats)?

H

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Friday, September 2, 2005 11:24 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

By the 20th century, scientists had rejected old tales of world catastrophe, and were convinced that global climate could change only gradually over many tens of thousands of years. But in the 1950s, a few scientists found evidence that some changes in the past had taken only a few thousand years. During the 1960s and 1970s other data, supported by new theories and new attitudes about human influences, reduced the time a change might require to hundreds of years. Many doubted that such a rapid shift could have befallen the planet as a whole. The 1980s and 1990s brought proof (chiefly from studies of ancient ice) that the global climate could indeed shift, radically and catastrophically, within a century — perhaps even within a decade.

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/rapid.htm
Quote:

Tracking the world's average temperature from the late 19th century, people in the 1930s realized there had been a pronounced warming trend. During the 1960s, scientists found that over the past couple of decades the trend had shifted to cooling. Many scientists predicted a continued and prolonged cooling, perhaps a phase of a long natural cycle or perhaps caused by human activities. Others insisted that humanity's emission of gases would bring warming over the long run. In the late 1970s, this group's views became predominant. By the late 1980s, it was plain that the cooling spell, whose cause remained mysterious, had been a temporary distraction. For whatever reason, unprecedented global warming was underway.

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/20ctrend.htm
Quote:

As we go back in time in search of earlier records, the historical record becomes less reliable. Fortunately, Nature has provided its own recording mechanism. As we will explain in Chapter 4, measurements of oxygen isotopes yield an estimate of ancient temperatures combined with total global ice volume – a combination which is just as interesting as temperature alone, if not more so. Data from a kilometer long core taken from the Greenland glacier, as part of the Greenland Ice Sheet Project "GISP2" , are shown in Figure 1-2. For comparison purposes, the zero of temperature scale for this plot was set to match that of the previous plot. For historical interest, we marked some events from European history.


http://muller.lbl.gov/pages/IceAgeBook/history_of_climate.html

and the ultimate geek resource:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record

To be honest I'm not sold either way, don't get me wrong I thing we're up this planet, but global warming doesn't _SEEM_ to be on an unprecedented scale...

Hero:
And no ones denying that Bush won any election...
Its whether he won it democratically that I'd defute

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Friday, September 2, 2005 3:08 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


Quote:

Originally posted by needleseye:
Ok, been following the Global Warming thread, but I think I want to hear what one does about it.
Do you recycle, car pool, choose a hybrid car? ....to me that pollution really begins locally, at your house. ...
My bad is, I've gone thru several trees worth of paper plates in the last year because with my schedule, my 1yo., and trying to get dishes done just hasn't worked out for me! ...



Sounds like you're more conscientious then most. If you're really worried about the paper plates you could buy a dishwasher. The electricty to run it is minimal and if you wait until it's full of dishes it uses much less water than if you wash the dishes in the sink.

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Saturday, September 3, 2005 2:35 AM

PSYCHICRIVER


Quote:

Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
the standard recylcing and carpooling things. There is one other thing Jake and I do that just seems geeky to other poeple, but it's helpful. We read all our books electronically.

No books??

We recycle!

And we pretty much only use our car on weekends...we walk everywhere during the week!

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."
"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."

Summer Glau to me - "You are so photogenic."

Me -

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