Russia Invades Ukraine. Again by captaincrunch

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
The Kharkov game-changer

September 14, 2022
by Pepe Escobar

Wars are not won by psyops. Ask Nazi Germany. Still, it’s been a howler to watch NATOstan media on Kharkov, gloating in unison about “the hammer blow that knocks out Putin”, “the Russians are in trouble”, and assorted inanities.

Facts: Russian forces withdrew from the territory of Kharkov to the left bank of the Oskol river, where they are now entrenched. A Kharkov-Donetsk-Luhansk line seems to be stable. Krasny Liman is threatened, besieged by superior Ukrainian forces, but not lethally.

No one – not even Maria Zakharova, the contemporary female equivalent of Hermes, the messenger of the Gods – knows what the Russian General Staff (RGS) plans, in this case and all others. If they say they do, they are lying.

As it stands, what may be inferred with a reasonable degree of certainty is that a line – Svyatogorsk-Krasny Liman-Yampol-Belogorovka – can hold out long enough with their current garrisons until fresh Russian forces are able to swoop in and force the Ukrainians back beyond the Seversky Donets line.

All hell broke loose – virtually – on why Kharkov happened. The people’s republics and Russia never had enough men to defend a 1,000 km-long frontline. NATO’s entire intel capabilities noticed – and profited from it.

There were no Russian Armed Forces in those settlements: only Rosgvardia, and these are not trained to fight military forces. Kiev attacked with an advantage of around 5 to 1. The allied forces retreated to avoid encirclement. There are no Russian troop losses because there were no Russian troops in the region.

Arguably this may have been a one-off. The NATO-run Kiev forces simply can’t do a replay anywhere in Donbass, or in Kherson, or in Mariupol. These are all protected by strong, regular Russian Army units.

It’s practically a given that if the Ukrainians remain around Kharkov and Izyum they will be pulverized by massive Russian artillery. Military analyst Konstantin Sivkov maintains that, “most combat-ready formations of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are now being grounded (…) we managed to lure them into the open and are now systematically destroying them.”

The NATO-run Ukrainian forces, crammed with NATO mercenaries, had spent 6 months hoarding equipment and reserving trained assets exactly for this Kharkov moment – while dispatching disposables into a massive meat grinder. It will be very hard to sustain an assembly line of substantial prime assets to pull off something similar again.

The next days will show whether Kharkov and Izyum are connected to a much larger NATO push. The mood in NATO-controlled EU is approaching Desperation Row. There’s a strong possibility this counter-offensive signifies NATO entering the war for good, while displaying quite tenuous plausible deniability: their veil of – fake – secrecy cannot disguise the presence of “advisers” and mercenaries all across the spectrum.

Decommunization as de-energization

The Special Military Operation (SMO), conceptually, is not about conquering territory per se: it is, or it was, so far, about protection of Russophone citizens in occupied territories, thus demilitarization cum denazification.

That concept may be about to be tweaked. And that’s where the tortuous, tricky debate on Russia mobilization fits in. Yet even a partial mobilization may not be necessary: what’s needed are reserves to properly allow allied forces to cover rear/defensive lines. Hardcore fighters of the Kadyrov contingent kind would continue to play offense.

It’s undeniable that Russian troops lost a strategically important node in Izyum. Without it, the complete liberation of Donbass becomes significantly harder.

Yet for the collective West, whose carcass slouches inside a vast simulacra bubble, it’s the pysops that matters much more than a minor military advance: thus all that gloating on Ukraine being able to drive the Russians out of the whole of Kharkov in only four days – while they had 6 months to liberate Donbass, and didn’t.

So, across the West, the reigning perception – frantically fomented by psyops experts – is that the Russian military were hit by that “hammer blow” and will hardly recover.

Kharkov was preciously timed – as General Winter is around the corner; the Ukraine issue was already suffering from public opinion fatigue; and the propaganda machine needed a boost to turbo-lubricate the multi-billion dollar weaponizing rat line.

Yet Kharkov may have forced Moscow’s hand to increase the pain dial. That came via a few well-placed Mr. Khinzals leaving the Black Sea and the Caspian to present their business cards to the largest thermal power plants in northeast and central Ukraine (most of the energy infrastructure is in the southeast).

Half of Ukraine suddenly lost power and water. Trains came to a halt. If Moscow decides to take out all major Ukraine substations at once, all it takes is a few missiles to totally smash the Ukrainian energy grid – adding a new meaning to “decommunization”: de-energization.

According to an expert analysis, “if transformers of 110-330 kV are damaged, then it will almost never be possible to put it into operation (…) And if this happens at least at 5 substations at the same time, then everything is kaput. Stone age forever.”

Russian government official Marat Bashirov was way more colorful: “Ukraine is being plunged into the 19th century. If there is no energy system, there will be no Ukrainian army. The matter of fact is that General Volt came to the war, followed by General Moroz (“frost”).

And that’s how we might be finally entering “real war” territory – as in Putin’s notorious quip that “we haven’t even started anything yet.”

A definitive response will come from the RSG in the next few days.

Once again, a fiery debate rages on what Russia will do next (the RGS, after all, is inscrutable, except for Yoda Patrushev).

The RGS may opt for a serious strategic strike of the decapitating kind elsewhere – as in changing the subject for the worse (for NATO).

It may opt for sending more troops to protect the front line (without partial mobilization).

And most of all it may enlarge the SMO mandate – going to total destruction of Ukrainian transport/energy infrastructure, from gas fields to thermal power plants, substations, and shutting down nuclear power plants.

Well, it could always be a mix of all of the above: a Russian version of Shock and Awe – generating an unprecedented socio-economic catastrophe. That has already been telegraphed by Moscow: we can revert you to the Stone Age at any time and in a matter of hours (italics mine). Your cities will greet General Winter with zero heating, freezing water, power outages and no connectivity.

A counter-terrorist operation

All eyes are on whether “centers of decision” – as in Kiev – may soon get a Khinzal visit. This would signify Moscow has had enough. The siloviki certainly did. But we’re not there – yet. Because for an eminently diplomatic Putin the real game revolves around those gas supplies to the EU, that puny plaything of American foreign policy.

Putin is certainly aware that the internal front is under some pressure. He refuses even partial mobilization. A perfect indicator of what may happen in winter is the referenda in liberated territories. The limit date is November 4 – the Day of National Unity, a commemoration introduced in 2004 to replace the celebration of the October revolution (it already existed in imperial times).

With the accession of these territories to Russia, any Ukrainian counter-offensive would qualify as an act of war against regions incorporated into the Russian Federation. Everyone knows what that means.

It may now be painfully obvious that when the collective West is waging war – hybrid and kinetic, with everything from massive intel to satellite data and hordes of mercenaries – against you, and you insist on conducting a hazily-defined Special Military Operation (SMO), you may be up for some nasty surprises.

So the SMO status may be about to change: it’s bound to become a counter-terrorist operation.

This is an existential war. A do or die affair. The American geopolitical /geoeconomic goal, to put it bluntly, is to destroy Russian unity, impose regime change and plunder all those immense natural resources. Ukrainians are nothing but cannon fodder: in a sort of twisted History remake, the modern equivalents of the pyramid of skulls Timur cemented into 120 towers when he razed Baghdad in 1401.

If may take a “hammer blow” for the RSG to wake up. Sooner rather than later, gloves – velvet and otherwise – will be off. Exit SMO. Enter War.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, September 14, 2022 4:05 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

'We will survive Russia's blackmail and the long winter, but we need unity,' Sanna Marin tells MEPs

Updated: 13/09/2022 - 13:10

The European Union will survive "Russia's blackmail" of energy supplies and the looming "long winter" but only if the bloc maintains its "unity, determination and courage," said Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin.

"Russia may challenge us, blackmail us and threaten us, but we will not give in," she told the European Parliament in Strasbourg, speaking in Finnish.

"Russia's actions have unified the West as never before, while Russia is lonelier than ever."

During her speech before the plenary, Marin painted a grim picture of the challenges the EU faces, including the Ukraine war, the worsening energy crisis, soaring inflation, an increasingly likely recession, strained public finances, natural disasters, democratic backsliding and the technological rise of authoritarian countries.

"However, even in the darkest moments there is hope," she noted.

"Ukraine will win the war with our support. There is no other alternative. In our hearts, the Ukrainians have already won it."

Marin said the EU's greatest strength – and the only way out of the overlapping crises – was the mutual trust and unity among its 27 member states.

"Blackmailing our societies through energy supply is a way to erode European support for Ukraine and break down our unity. Putin must not succeed in this," she said.

"With its war, Russia is destroying its economy and future. Russia has broken our trust. Even if the war ended today, our confidence would not be restored for a long time."

Since the war broke out in late February, Marin has taken a hard line against the Kremlin, calling for sanctions and a speedy transition away from Russian fossil fuels.

Marin has also led Finland's bid to join NATO, a process that, once completed, will redraw the alliance's map.

In recent weeks, her government has pushed for a broad ban on visas for Russian citizens, as the country shares a 1,300-kilometre-long land border and is one of the few entry points for Russians coming to the EU.

Last month, EU foreign affairs ministers agreed to fully suspend a visa agreement with Russia and make the application system lengthier and costlier– but still possible.

For Marin, the EU must be ready to slap Moscow with "even tougher sanctions" to make the war unsustainably expensive.

"Sanctions must be reflected in the everyday lives of ordinary Russians," she said. "It is not right that while Russia kills civilians in Ukraine, Russian tourists travel freely in Europe."

Throughout her speech, Marin repeatedly praised Ukraine's resistance and the "brave and unyielding" character of its people and said the bloc's support for Ukraine must not collapse under the weight of the energy crisis.

"We may count the cost of war in euros, but Ukrainians count it in human lives," she told MEPs.

Reflecting on the developments over the past months, the Finnish PM said the EU was paying a "heavy price" for its entrenched dependency on Russian fuels, which she blamed on geopolitical mistakes made in the past.

"We have to admit that we have been far too naïve about Russia and have built our assumptions about Russia's activities on wrong ideas," she said. "We should have listened more closely to our friends from the Baltic states and Poland, who have lived under Soviet rule."

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/09/13/we-will-survive-russian-
blackmail-and-the-long-winter-but-we-need-unity-sanna-marin-tells- <-- that final 'dash' is important.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, September 14, 2022 4:25 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

The EU depends on energy from Russia bc they have no economical alternative. They want to stay competitive in world markets,and given their high labor costs they need to shave expenses elsewhere.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, September 14, 2022 4:38 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

The Kharkov game-changer

September 14, 2022
by Pepe Escobar

Original article is pure Russian self-hype: https://www.geopolitika.ru/en/article/kharkov-game-changer

Russia claims: "We have not yet begun to fight." The entire world awaits Russia revealing its true mightiness in battle, but in the meantime, Russia looks lame. There are veiled threats in that article of nuking Kyiv, London, Berlin, DC which is pretty typical on any and every day from Moscow.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, September 14, 2022 9:55 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Omfg. You're spouting nonsense.
Not gonna explain.
You figure it out.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Thursday, September 15, 2022 5:18 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Omfg. You're spouting nonsense.
Not gonna explain.
You figure it out.

"Nobody goes back behind bars," Prigozhin, founder of the Russian private military company Wagner, can be seen telling men in a video from a Russian prison yard. "If you serve six months, you are free. If you arrive in Ukraine and decide it's not for you, we execute you."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/video-shows-the-head-of-a-shadowy
-mercenary-group-recruiting-at-a-russian-prison-offering-inmates-freedom-if-they-fight-in-ukraine-but-death-if-they-run/ar-AA11PLXe

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, September 15, 2022 6:14 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Omfg. You're spouting nonsense.
Not gonna explain.
You figure it out.
"Nobody goes back behind bars," Prigozhin, founder of the Russian private military company Wagner, can be seen telling men in a video from a Russian prison yard. "If you serve six months, you are free. If you arrive in Ukraine and decide it's not for you, we execute you."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/video-shows-the-head-of-a-shadowy
-mercenary-group-recruiting-at-a-russian-prison-offering-inmates-freedom-if-they-fight-in-ukraine-but-death-if-they-run/ar-AA11PLXe

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

So, to show that you're not spouting nonsense you spout moe nonsense?

"The first sin is desertion... the second sin is alcohol and drugs ... the third sin is looting, includng sexual contacts with local women... flora, fauna, men.. anything"

Sounds like they're supposed to be on a tight leash.

This is the stuff of many Hollywood hero movies.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Thursday, September 15, 2022 9:43 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So, to show that you're not spouting nonsense you spout moe nonsense?

It is the Russians spouting nonsense. Make prisoners into instantaneous soldiers? That is Russian nonsense.

Also, the people who are threatening to bring nukes into the war with Ukraine? They are Russians. The Ukrainians aren't talking about nuking Moscow, but the Russians talk constantly about nuking Kyiv, London, Berlin, DC. The Russians aren't thinking ahead to what happens after they nuke Kyiv, which means the Russians are spouting nonsense. Hope they don't try it. The results will be bad . . . for Russians.

And freeing prisoners? Do prisoners become good people after surviving the war and returning to society with PTSD? The Russians aren't thinking ahead to what happens after the prisoners return, which means the Russians are spouting nonsense. Hope they don't try it. The results will be bad . . . for Russians.

Russian oligarch recruiting convicts into private military -- turn on sound and scroll down
https://imgur.com/gallery/c4bsjN6

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, September 15, 2022 12:19 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

Like SECOND'S posts I get one or two sentences in and I trip over something so egregiously stupid I have to stop.

Life is unbearable bc she misses Starbucks??

Speaking of "so egregiously stupid" ... Zignym is offended when someone says they miss Starbucks, but killing innocent Ukrainian women and children?? Bombing hospitals and schools? "Meh - Ukies aren't people!" - Zignym

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Thursday, September 15, 2022 1:37 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

As Ukraine firepower thunders forward, Russian troops fleeing to the border: Live updates

Tensions were rising in Russian villages bordering the Kharkiv region Thursday as the roar of the Ukraine military's firepower edged closer to the border.

The governor of Russia's Belgorod region said people were wounded when Ukraine shells slammed into one border village, and private houses, farm buildings and power lines in another were partially destroyed. Vyacheslav Gladkov also ordered the evacuation of several villages.

Ukraine has retaken thousands of miles and more than 300 villages and towns this month. The Ukraine Defense Ministry said Russian troops fleeing the Ukraine advance are massing at the Belgorod border, where other Russian troops are keeping them from crossing over.

"They have no communication with the command," the ministry said in a statement. "There is no supply of food and ammunition."

The New York Times and Wall Street Journal, reporting from Belgorod in recent days, found locals who expressed fear and concern. One schoolteacher said she told students who heard missiles that the sound was only thunder.

Some residents have fled to Belgorod from Ukraine villages after working for Russian administrations – only to have the Russians abandon the Ukraine towns. Now they fear payback from Ukraine authorities who view them as traitors.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/09/15/ukraine-russia-i
nvasion-live-updates/10385423002/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, September 15, 2022 2:07 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

It’s a tough time for anti-anti-Putinism

Ukraine’s successes have made right-wing Putin apologists look like fools, bounders, and quislings. Tucker Carlson, all-purpose fascist shill, has constantly insisted that Putin’s victory is inevitable — refusing to change his line even after the most recent defeat.

Tucker: By any actual reality based measure, Vladimir Putin is not losing the war in Ukraine. He is winning the war in Ukraine

Former Trump aide and fascist mouthpiece Steve Bannon praised the viciously homophobic and nightmarishly authoritarian Putin as “anti-woke.” Like other white nationalists, Bannon hoped a Putin victory would signal the downfall of the decadent west. Instead, the supposedly decadent Ukrainian military is in the process of handing fascism yet another historical defeat.

There’s strong reasons for those on the left to be happy, in particular, about Putin’s defeat. Putin’s homophobic authoritarian oligarchy has been a major ideological inspiration for global white supremacists, christofascists, and scumbags. Russia has also been a source of material and logistical support for these groups. Putin has provided funding to far-right parties in France, Italy, Austria, and Spain. He sent $188 million between 2009 and 2018 to homophobic parties and organizations. And of course, according to bipartisan intelligence assessment, Putin interfered in the 2016 election in an effort to help Donald Trump win the presidency.

Aaron Rupar @atrupar tweeted:
Asked if he believes US intel agencies or Putin about Russia's interference in the 2016 election, Trump immediately starts pushing debunked DNC & Hillary conspiracy theories.

"I don't see any reason why it would be" Russia, Trump says, affirming he believes Putin's denials.

July 16th 2018

More at https://aaronrupar.substack.com/p/chomsky-greenwald-unkraine-anti-anti
-putin

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, September 15, 2022 3:53 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Russia is fighting with one hand tied behind it's back bc of the self-imposed limits of an SMO. Taking out a significant portion of Ukraine electrical power (and therefore water) should remind you that if Russia were to escalate to an "anti-terrorist" operation (a la Chechnya) it could destroy Ukraine in a couple of days.

First, take out ALL of the grid, substations included. Then, bomb Kiev, starting with it's government buildings, TV stations, internet and telephone relays etc. And then start bombing every known military command center, troop concentrations, border crossings whete foreign weapons/troops arrive, railways etc. Russia has got a lot of missiles left. It would be remarkably easy.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Thursday, September 15, 2022 6:24 PM

THG

Russia is nothing but a Begger country.

T

Is Putin worried China will steal his power?

"What we’re seeing is a shift in the balance of power. Russia was the security guarantor and China was the investor, but, Russia is no longer able to provide that, so we’re seeing China fill that vacuum."

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Thursday, September 15, 2022 6:33 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Russia is fighting with one hand tied behind it's back bc of the self-imposed limits of an SMO. Taking out a significant portion of Ukraine electrical power (and therefore water) should remind you that if Russia were to escalate to an "anti-terrorist" operation (a la Chechnya) it could destroy Ukraine in a couple of days.

First, take out ALL of the grid, substations included. Then, bomb Kiev, starting with it's government buildings, TV stations, internet and telephone relays etc. And then start bombing every known military command center, troop concentrations, border crossings whete foreign weapons/troops arrive, railways etc. Russia has got a lot of missiles left. It would be remarkably easy.

And that would be justified because why...? Ukraine has the nerve to defend itself?

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Thursday, September 15, 2022 6:53 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Russia is fighting with one hand tied behind it's back bc of the self-imposed limits of an SMO. Taking out a significant portion of Ukraine electrical power (and therefore water) should remind you that if Russia were to escalate to an "anti-terrorist" operation (a la Chechnya) it could destroy Ukraine in a couple of days.

First, take out ALL of the grid, substations included. Then, bomb Kiev, starting with it's government buildings, TV stations, internet and telephone relays etc. And then start bombing every known military command center, troop concentrations, border crossings whete foreign weapons/troops arrive, railways etc. Russia has got a lot of missiles left. It would be remarkably easy.

And that would be justified because why...? Ukraine has the nerve to defend itself?

That's why Russia is limiting itself. That was just a reminder.

Also, the west and Russia are fighting an economic war as well as a militry one. Right now, the west is suffering far more than Russia. So Russia is very content with a "go slow" military approach.

Yanno, Kiev has been shelling the eastern part of the Donbas for years now, and killed thousands of civilians (to which the OSCE often turned a blind eye). Kiev was doing far more than "defending itself". It massed a a large number of troops on the line of contact and was preparing to invade/slaughter the breakway regions (Yanno, if you were all for Kosovo breaking away as a matter of "self determination" you should feel the same about the Donbas. But I only expect consistent hypocrisy from you. And, lies.)

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Thursday, September 15, 2022 9:52 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
That's why Russia is limiting itself. That was just a reminder.

A reminder that they can murder more people? Thanks Putin.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Also, the west and Russia are fighting an economic war as well as a militry one.

Would they be fighting this war (I thought it was a special operation? Careful what you type online!) if Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine? Uh, no.

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Thursday, September 15, 2022 10:26 PM

Oh. The dipshit came back, huh?

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Thursday, September 15, 2022 11:07 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by CAPTAINCRUNCH:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
That's why Russia is limiting itself. That was just a reminder.

A reminder that they can murder more people? Thanks Putin.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Also, the west and Russia are fighting an economic war as well as a militry one.

Would they be fighting this war (I thought it was a special operation? Careful what you type online!) if Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine? Uh, no.

uh, yeah. They've been sanctioning Russia for over eight years already.

The neocons and globalist neolibs have been trying to provoke Russia into a war since then. Well, they should be careful what they wish for.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Thursday, September 15, 2022 11:30 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
uh, yeah. They've been sanctioning Russia for over eight years already.

So, Trump sanctions are why Russia is murdering Ukrainians?

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Friday, September 16, 2022 12:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CAPTAINCRUNCH:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
uh, yeah. They've been sanctioning Russia for over eight years already.

So, Trump sanctions are why Russia is murdering Ukrainians?

No. NATO aggression is why Russia is defending itself.

If Biden* and NATO weren't funneling money to fuel this conflict, Ukraine would have surrendered in one single day.

This isn't even Ukraine's battle.

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Friday, September 16, 2022 1:16 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by CAPTAINCRUNCH:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
uh, yeah. They've been sanctioning Russia for over eight years already.

So, Trump sanctions are why Russia is murdering Ukrainians?

Not good at arithmetic, are you?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Friday, September 16, 2022 6:06 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

No. NATO aggression is why Russia is defending itself.

If Biden* and NATO weren't funneling money to fuel this conflict, Ukraine would have surrendered in one single day.

This isn't even Ukraine's battle.

Despite Ukrainian forces’ startling gains in the war against Russia, the Biden administration anticipates months of intense fighting with wins and losses for each side, spurring U.S. plans for an open-ended campaign with no prospect for a negotiated end in sight.

A senior State Department official, who like other officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal planning, said “They have significant equipment and arms and munitions positioned in the occupied territories, not to mention what they have in Russia. And so it is far from over, despite the momentum.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/u-s-expects-months-of-intense-fig
hting-in-ukraine-russia-war/ar-AA11SNpS

6ix, your weirdness is showing when you support Russia's goal. It's the same as you supporting robbery. Middle-aged Beavis and Butt-Head did the stupid thing you are doing when they fulfilled their civic duty as jurors in an episode that aired Sep 15, 2022: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt22045758/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, September 16, 2022 6:51 AM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Originally posted by CAPTAINCRUNCH:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
uh, yeah. They've been sanctioning Russia for over eight years already.

So, Trump sanctions are why Russia is murdering Ukrainians?

Not good at arithmetic, are you?

Lessee, last 8 years: 2 years of Obama (started when Russia invaded Crimea), 4 years of Dump and 2 of Biden = yep, 8 years of sanctions, mostly under Trump.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-imposes-major-sanct
ions-russian-oligarchs-officials-companies-n863271

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration took one of its most aggressive actions against Russia on Friday, announcing sweeping sanctions against members of Russian President Vladimir Putin's inner circle, along with top officials and several businesses, including a state-owned weapons trading company.

Senior U.S. administration officials said the sanctions are not aimed to punish Moscow for any particular event, but are instead a broader measure aimed at the "totality of the Russian government's ongoing and increasingly malign activities in the world."

The Treasury Department, in connection with the State Department, targeted seven Russian oligarchs and 12 companies they own or control. It also issued sanctions on 17 senior government officials, along with a state-owned weapons trading company and its subsidiary, a Russian bank."

So that's why Putin invaded Ukraine - huh. Never would have guessed.

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Friday, September 16, 2022 7:32 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

You would think there would be a starightforward timeline of sanctions against Russia from before 2014 to present, but ... no.

However, it's clear from this timeline that most of the sanctions were placed on Russia in 2014.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/history-us-sanctions-on-russia/

You've had a grotch against Russia over all kinds of "issues" including laughable golden showers/kompromat "dossier" and the accusation that Russia poisoned the Skripals (despite the fact that the UK changed its scenarios at least 4 times, none of which made sense)

There used to be a programing concept called GIGO - Garbage In, Garbage Out. If you put gabage in your brain what comes out is, well, garbage.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Friday, September 16, 2022 10:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
6ix, your weirdness is showing when you support Russia's goal.

No it's not. Fuck NATO.

Quote:
It's the same as you supporting robbery.

Get fucked, Leftist. That's exactly what I've been watching you and your entire party do since the summer of 2020.

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Friday, September 16, 2022 10:44 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
6ix, your weirdness is showing when you support Russia's goal.

No it's not. Fuck NATO.

Quote:
It's the same as you supporting robbery.

Get fucked, Leftist. That's exactly what I've been watching you and your entire party do since the summer of 2020.

That is funny because the Democratic Party did NOT do what you said it did. I know Republicans kept insisting in their news media that Democrats supported robbery, but not so.

By the way, a robbery trial had Beavis and Butt-head on a 12 person jury. Every piece of evidence with misunderstood by Beavis and Butt-head. They were confused about who the Judge was and who was the defendant and so the confusion was everywhere all the time, which ended with a mistrial. I would have believed it was absurd, but I have seen real-life Trumptards imitating cartoon Beavis and Butt-head. The guy who animates the episodes, Mike Judge, is familiar with Texas. He is working from live examples to create his fictional characters.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt22045758/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, September 16, 2022 10:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
6ix, your weirdness is showing when you support Russia's goal.

No it's not. Fuck NATO.

Quote:
It's the same as you supporting robbery.

Get fucked, Leftist. That's exactly what I've been watching you and your entire party do since the summer of 2020.
That is funny because the Democratic Party did NOT do what you said it did.

They're literally doing it right now you dumb shit.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/no-more-cash-bail-in-illinois-he
res-what-we-know-about-the-changes-coming-soon/2939008/

And whenever they do actually get around to arresting anyone, Kim Foxx lets them right back out.

Don't even get me started on Kamala Harris bailing them out in 2020, Portland, or the millions of illegal alien invaders.

Maybe if you got your head out of your ass about Trump for one single day you might know what is actually going on in reality.

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Friday, September 16, 2022 12:35 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
There used to be a programing concept called GIGO - Garbage In, Garbage Out. If you put gabage in your brain what comes out is, well, garbage.

Hey - that's probably what explains how you can get outraged over someone liking Starbucks but are fine with dead women and children.

GIGO!

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Friday, September 16, 2022 1:19 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
There used to be a programing concept called GIGO - Garbage In, Garbage Out. If you put gabage in your brain what comes out is, well, garbage.

Hey - that's probably what explains how you can get outraged over someone liking Starbucks but are fine with dead women and children.

GIGO!

Oh, I have no problem with anyone liking Starbucks, CAPON. But to say that not having Starbucks makes a city "unbearable"? That byatch has NO IDEA of "unbearable". Clearly, she hasn't visited our dirty, crime-ridden cities. And especially the Starbucks where the homeless hang out and the addicted take drugs in the restrooms.

And I DO have a problem with dead women and children. That's what started this whole mess in Ukraine to begin with. Seriously dood - it's Kiev that uses human shields and massacres "collaborators", not the LDNR militias.

I never expect honesty from you CAPON, so I'm never disapointed.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Friday, September 16, 2022 1:51 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Oh, I have no problem with anyone liking Starbucks, CAPON. But to say that not having Starbucks makes a city "unbearable"? That byatch has NO IDEA of "unbearable". Clearly, she hasn't visited our dirty, crime-ridden cities. And especially the Starbucks where the homeless hang out and the addicted take drugs in the restrooms.

And I DO have a problem with dead women and children. That's what started this whole mess in Ukraine to begin with. Seriously dood - it's Kiev that uses human shields and massacres "collaborators", not the LDNR militias.

I never expect honesty from you CAPON, so I'm never disapointed.

All my life I've noticed that some people have very different values than me, but that was never a problem. We could get along fine and prosper together despite the differences. On the other hand, insane people, Signym and 6ix for two examples, were a huge problem. Facts never made a dent in their mental armor because the insane will make their own facts and live crazy, rather than different from how a sane person lives. Trump? Putin? Absolutely insane and have been for decades, but other insane people are attracted to them and use fake facts when advocating for them. All the insanity compressed into one false line: "Seriously dood - it's Kiev that uses human shields and massacres "collaborators", not the LDNR militias." This is not about different values, Signym.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, September 16, 2022 2:52 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I didn't make up, or believe, the golden showers "dossier". I didn't believe in Iraq WMD or "R2P" or "Assad gassed his own people". I didn't turn a low-level criminal into a martyr, ignore billions of dollars of damage and hundreds of cops being injured by Antifa. I don't believe that everyone, or even MOST people, are prospering in this deindustrialized "gig economy", or that Jan 6 was anything other than a protest that got out of hand, or any of the other media garbage that you seem to swallow so readily.

Unlike SIX, I'm wasn't in denial about Covid, nor am I in denial about climate change. I don't think Trump is "the answer", I disagree with about half of his policies, and I thought he was damn ineffective about implementing some of the policies that I agreed with. But al least he got SOME things right, and one of them was that the President's job is caring for America and Americans, NOT interfering across the entire damn globe.

Most importnatly I don't falsely attribute statements, beliefs, and associations to you. And when I run out of on-point things to say, I don't fling random ad hominems. That's something YOU do. When I accuse you of lying and libel, it's specific and demonstrable.

I think I've got my feet pretty firmly planted and my head screwed on straight, and I believe in solving problems, not covering them up, like you do.

Let's see where your (and the DNC's) smarmy rationalizations and blame shifting and warmongering get us in the next few years.

Oh, and have a nice day

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Friday, September 16, 2022 6:30 PM

THG

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Friday, September 16, 2022 6:46 PM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Most importnatly I don't falsely attribute statements, beliefs, and associations to you. And when I run out of on-point things to say, I don't fling random ad hominems. That's something YOU do. When I accuse you of lying and libel, it's specific and demonstrable.

That's a whopper! You owe me another keyboard! You've done that exact shit just in this thread.

You a shite actor btw.

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Saturday, September 17, 2022 6:36 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I think I've got my feet pretty firmly planted and my head screwed on straight, and I believe in solving problems, not covering them up, like you do.

Let's see where your (and the DNC's) smarmy rationalizations and blame shifting and warmongering get us in the next few years.

Oh, and have a nice day

Are you sure you are not now and have never been a lunatic? I only ask because defending Trump is lunatic territory. Supporting Russia or indifference to Russia killing civilians (6ix's thing) is lunatic land.

Wonking Out: What Ukraine Needs From Us

Lawyers, guns and money. OK, skip the lawyers.

by Paul Krugman / September 16, 2022 at 01:18PM

Lately I’ve been seeing what seems like a growing number of reports about Ukraine’s economic difficulties. And it definitely makes sense to focus more on the country’s economy now that the tide seems to have turned in Ukraine’s favor on the battlefield.

But it’s hard to avoid suspecting ulterior motives for that scrutiny. Supporters of Ukraine’s fight may be trying to shame Western powers into providing more aid, while “realists,” who’ve spent the whole war urging Ukraine to surrender and have been disappointed in their predictions of military defeat, are now predicting inevitable economic collapse.

Still, the economic difficulties are real and serious. According to official estimates, Ukraine’s real gross domestic product has fallen 37 percent from a year ago, although there are some signs of recovery. At the same time, inflation has surged to nearly 24 percent over the previous year.

But here’s the thing: I’ve read a lot of economic history, including the economics of wars past. And my reaction to the Ukrainian numbers is: That’s all?

OK, that’s a really big decline in G.D.P., but what do you expect when an invader seizes a significant part of your territory, blockades your ports and uses missiles to blow up a significant part of your infrastructure?

And the inflation number is surprisingly low, given the circumstances. After all, quite a few countries have managed to create significantly higher inflation than that without being the target of a huge foreign invasion. Turkey, for example, currently has 80 percent annual inflation.

It’s important to note that major wars usually lead to higher inflation, with some justification.

After all, it’s unusual and, in fact, inappropriate for a government confronted with the need to make large but temporary outlays — like paying for immense military operations or, for that matter, pandemic relief — to fully pay for those outlays with higher taxes. Why inappropriate? Because even a liberal like me will admit that very high tax rates hurt incentives. So it’s better to borrow some of the needed funds and defray those costs over time.

But running a big budget deficit does increase overall demand in the economy, which is inflationary, especially if supply is simultaneously being reduced, for example by Russian missile strikes. If borrowing to cover the deficit is difficult — which it often is in wartime — some of the gap may also be covered by printing money. So it’s normal, and even acceptable, to see significant inflation in times of war.

World War II, by the way, is the exception that proves the rule. Despite gigantic budget deficits and the diversion of much of the economy’s capacity to war production, the U.S. government mostly kept a lid on inflation, partly via price controls and partly via rationing and other controls that suppressed private demand. Even then, there was a postwar spike in prices when those controls were removed.

If we look at earlier episodes, however, wars were regularly accompanied by inflation. During World War I, for example, Britain and the United States experienced inflation not far short of what Ukraine is experiencing now, even though neither was invaded.

Or look at the Civil War. The Union experienced Ukraine-like inflation. The Confederacy, whose military situation more closely resembled that of contemporary Ukraine — even though Ukraine is defending freedom, while the South was defending slavery — experienced runaway inflation.

So Ukraine is actually doing pretty well, considering. Why?

Part of the answer is that on the economic front, as in the military struggle, the Ukrainians have shown an unexpected level of coolheadedness and competence. They quickly imposed capital controls to prevent a massive flight of money from the country and also intervened to stabilize the foreign exchange value of their currency — something that isn’t always a good idea but in this case helped prevent an inflation panic.

But none of this would have mattered — just as the battlefield courage of the Ukrainians wouldn’t have mattered — were it not for the fundamental fact that Ukraine isn’t standing alone.

On its own, Ukraine is hugely outmatched economically by Russia, which is one reason Russia appeared to have overwhelming military superiority. But the combined economic weight of the countries backing Ukraine makes the Russian economy look puny, and diverting even a small fraction of these countries’ resources to helping Ukraine utterly shifts the balance of power. This has been obvious on the battlefield, where Western weapons have changed everything. It’s also true on the economic side, where Western loans and aid are helping Ukraine contain the fallout from the military struggle.

The key question now is whether this aid, both military and financial, will be provided on a sufficient scale to ensure Ukraine’s survival and — as some of us hope — victory.

As I see it, there were four ways Vladimir Putin might have won:

First, the Russians might have succeeded in a quick decapitating strike, seizing Kyiv and overthrowing Ukraine’s government at a stroke. Indeed, they tried to do that — and, as I read in news accounts, came dangerously close to success. But they failed, and the battle of Kyiv turned into a Russian debacle.

Second, the Russians might have pulled off a World War II-style envelopment in the Donbas, encircling a large part of Ukraine’s army and then driving on to Kyiv. But they were thwarted by Ukrainian valor and stubbornness.

After that, there was still a chance that Russia would prevail through a battle of attrition, grinding down Ukraine’s army with artillery barrages until it finally broke. Things did indeed look grim for a time; we now know that there was a critical moment in June when Ukraine was effectively out of artillery ammunition.

But the arrival of Western weapons — above all, those HIMARS launchers that keep destroying Russian ammo dumps and command centers — turned the tide. (I still find it amazing how much damage appears to have been done by just 16 U.S.-supplied HIMARS launchers and 10 older systems from Britain and Germany.) At this point, Russia’s army seems more likely to break than Ukraine’s.

This leaves one remaining path to Russian victory: dwindling Western support, both military and economic. If the flow of weapons slows down, Ukraine will once again find itself outmatched. If the flow of money is insufficient (some European nations have yet to deliver much of what they promised), Ukraine’s economy will fall into crisis.

This is why Ukraine’s successful counterattack near Kharkiv matters so much. Neither the territory gained nor the losses inflicted will do much to shift the military balance. But by demonstrating their capabilities and Russian weakness, the Ukrainians are trying to refute Western officials who still don’t believe they can win, and hence keep the guns and money coming.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220917011050/https://www.nytimes.com/202
2/09/16/opinion/ukraine-economy.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Saturday, September 17, 2022 6:53 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I couldn't give a rat's ass what ~~Ukraine needs~~ Ukraine's oligarchs want.
Maybe if it was "What does AMERUCA need?" I'd bother to read.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Saturday, September 17, 2022 7:42 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I couldn't give a rat's ass what ~~Ukraine needs~~ Ukraine's oligarchs want.
Maybe if it was "What does AMERUCA need?" I'd bother to read.

I am not misquoting you: Signym wrote AMERUCA instead of America. Trivial mistake? I think not. And tacitly your argument is that Russia will be satisfied with just Ukraine. Maybe for now, but if Russia takes Ukraine, there are other countries to conquer once Ukraine is digested. But if Russia has to vomit out Ukraine, Russia will learn to not eat the other neighbors.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Saturday, September 17, 2022 9:41 AM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I couldn't give a rat's ass what ~~Ukraine needs~~ Ukraine's oligarchs want.
Maybe if it was "What does AMERUCA need?" I'd bother to read.

America needs Ukraine to beat the ever lovin' shit out of Russia. Putin is a dangerous, joyless old dinosaur, still using ancient artiliery/trench warfare strategies from WW1, and KGB inspired policing of his own citizens. The world is too fucking small for his type. He's going to get plowed under, it's only a matter of time - what Russia does effects the entire globe, and in this case it's for nothing. Just drawing lines on a map or serving his ego. One fcking guy. But Ziggy, you go ahead and keep supporting Putin.

https://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-authorities-discover-mass-grave-16103
6986.html

Brigid Kennedy, Staff Writer
Fri, September 16, 2022, 12:10 PM·1 min read
Mass burial site in Izyum, Ukraine.
Ukrainian authorities have uncovered a mass grave with over 440 bodies in the eastern city of Izium, Ukraine's Defense Ministry announced Friday, per CNN.

Izium was recently recaptured from Russian forces, after having been "subject to intense ... artillery attacks" in the spring, CNN writes. The city, nestled near the border between the Kharkiv and Donetsk regious, served as an "important hub" for Putin's offensive "during five months of occupation."

Some of the victims in the mass grave were killed by gunfire, while others died of "so-called mine explosion traumas," Serhii Bolvinov, Kharkiv's chief police investigator, told the United Kingdom's Sky News, per CNN. "Some died because of airstrikes," he continued. "Also we have information that a lot of bodies have not been identified yet. So the reasons of death will be established during the investigations." The buried corpses were also "mostly civilians," according to Ukraine's Center for Stategic Communications, and showed some signs of torture, adds The Associated Press.

Per CNN, Bolvinov believes there could be other mass graves in the Kharkiv area.

"Bucha, Mariupol, now, unfortunately, Izium ... Russia leaves death everywhere. And it must be held accountable for it," Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, alluding to tales of similar civilian tragedies from earlier in the invasion, said in a video address on Thursday. "We want the world to know what is really happening and what the Russian occupation has led to."

=========

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Saturday, September 17, 2022 9:42 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Air Force Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder, the Pentagon’s top spokesman: “We have seen them make some advances in the north, in the Kharkiv region,” Ryder told The War Zone during a media briefing Friday afternoon. “The Ukrainians continue to conduct their counter-offensive operations, primarily up in the north in Kharkiv and in the south in the Kherson region.”

When asked how long the war could last, Ryder declined to speculate.

"I'm not going to try to put a timeline on this conflict, other than to say again, we believe that this will continue to be a tough fight," he said. "We've seen the Ukrainians have some success. And we'll continue our focus on supporting them in their fight. But we do anticipate that this will continue to be a very tough fight. And the only thing that could shorten it would be if the Russians decided to do the right thing, and withdraw their occupying forces from Ukraine."

In its latest assessment, the Institute for the Study of War (ISW) offered several key takeaways, including how Russia is struggling to balance raising additional forces to fight in Ukraine against the animosity of Russians who don't want to see a general mobilization.

Our latest report at @TheStudyofWar assessed that Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov’s call on Russian federal subjects to “self-mobilize” is an indicator that the Kremlin is doubling down on crypto-mobilization rather than setting conditions for general mobilization. https://t.co/ObMKtgAZ32

"Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov called on all federal subjects to initiate 'self-mobilization' and not wait on the Kremlin to declare martial law," ISW reported. "Kadyrov claimed that each federal subject must prove its readiness to help Russia by recruiting at least 1,000 servicemen instead of delivering speeches and conducting fruitless public events. Russian propagandist Margarita Simonyan echoed the need for Russians to volunteer to join the war effort, and several loyalist Russian governors publicly supported Kadyrov’s speech. The Russian-appointed head of occupied Crimea, Sergey Aksyonov, announced the formation of two volunteer battalions on the peninsula in support of Kadyrov’s calls."

More at https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-russia-
loses-another-key-city

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-situation-report-russia-l
oses-another-key-city/ar-AA11USZb

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Saturday, September 17, 2022 9:50 AM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
When asked how long the war could last, Ryder declined to speculate.

One thing you can say about Putin is he doesn't care how many Russians he has to kill to keep fighting. For essentially nothing. Nothing that those dead soldiers and their families care about at least. He must have zero respect for the average soldier, being ready to die for nothing. Almost like relationship between Trump and his base.

He also has the talent for inspiring absolute hatred from his enemies - Ukraine is not going to stop either. This will probably be a near endless slog like the Donetsk airport. 8 more years? The EU should be well on it's way to alternative energy by then and they can say FU to that fckwad.

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Saturday, September 17, 2022 1:14 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:

One thing you can say about Putin is he doesn't care how many Russians he has to kill to keep fighting.

You are describing the history of both Russia and China. The two countries with the most deaths during WWII have present day leaders who are very cozy.

Neither leader is careful when expending lives while writing their own glorious pages in history.

Funny how easy it is to find stories about a genocide going forward in China. And Russia planned to kill off the Ukrainians, but that plan is temporarily on hold. Russia and China are controlled by two great minds thinking alike.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/World_War_II_Casua
lties.svg

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Saturday, September 17, 2022 8:11 PM

THG

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I couldn't give a rat's ass what ~~Ukraine needs~~ Ukraine's oligarchs want.
Maybe if it was "What does AMERUCA need?" I'd bother to read.

America needs Ukraine to beat the ever lovin' shit out of Russia. Putin is a dangerous, joyless old dinosaur, still using ancient artiliery/trench warfare strategies from WW1, and KGB inspired policing of his own citizens. The world is too fucking small for his type. He's going to get plowed under, it's only a matter of time - what Russia does effects the entire globe, and in this case it's for nothing. Just drawing lines on a map or serving his ego. One fcking guy. But Ziggy, you go ahead and keep supporting Putin.

https://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-authorities-discover-mass-grave-16103
6986.html

Brigid Kennedy, Staff Writer
Fri, September 16, 2022, 12:10 PM·1 min read
Mass burial site in Izyum, Ukraine.
Ukrainian authorities have uncovered a mass grave with over 440 bodies in the eastern city of Izium, Ukraine's Defense Ministry announced Friday, per CNN.

Izium was recently recaptured from Russian forces, after having been "subject to intense ... artillery attacks" in the spring, CNN writes. The city, nestled near the border between the Kharkiv and Donetsk regious, served as an "important hub" for Putin's offensive "during five months of occupation."

Some of the victims in the mass grave were killed by gunfire, while others died of "so-called mine explosion traumas," Serhii Bolvinov, Kharkiv's chief police investigator, told the United Kingdom's Sky News, per CNN. "Some died because of airstrikes," he continued. "Also we have information that a lot of bodies have not been identified yet. So the reasons of death will be established during the investigations." The buried corpses were also "mostly civilians," according to Ukraine's Center for Stategic Communications, and showed some signs of torture, adds The Associated Press.

Per CNN, Bolvinov believes there could be other mass graves in the Kharkiv area.

"Bucha, Mariupol, now, unfortunately, Izium ... Russia leaves death everywhere. And it must be held accountable for it," Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, alluding to tales of similar civilian tragedies from earlier in the invasion, said in a video address on Thursday. "We want the world to know what is really happening and what the Russian occupation has led to."

=========

Agreed G

T

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Saturday, September 17, 2022 9:37 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

STORY WITHDRAWN

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Saturday, September 17, 2022 11:57 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
STORY WITHDRAWN

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

Is this a he said, she said kind of thing you've got going on here, Signym? Except he has a heap of corpses and she says, "Corpses? What corpses? I didn't see any corpses!" and "I wasn't the one who tortured then killed them. How dare you accuse me! I am innocent. You can believe me. Have I ever lied? Trust me."

Reuters September 17, 2022

Moscow has not commented on the discovery of the graves. It regularly denies committing atrocities in the war or targeting civilians.

Reuters saw workers carefully exhume at least five graves with shovels, while police experts and investigators documented the findings on camera and inspected the bodies on the sandy soil between trunks of pine trees.

Investigators said the condition of the teeth showed some of the people were elderly.

"Exhumations are under way. Their identities are currently not known," said Roman Kasianenko, a regional prosecutor. He said three bodies dug up on Friday had been identified. . . .

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy on Saturday said officials have found evidence of torture on exhumed bodies, adding that around 10 torture sites have been found across the territory liberated this month.

The head of the Russia-installed administration that abandoned the northeastern area around Izium last week accused Ukrainians of staging atrocities. "I have not heard anything about burials," Vitaly Ganchev told Rossiya-24 state television.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-searches-its-dead-russian
-occupation-burial-site-2022-09-17/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Sunday, September 18, 2022 1:31 AM

Same as it ever was...

Nobody gives a single shit about Ukraine.

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Sunday, September 18, 2022 2:59 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

It wasn't a "mass grave", it was a burial site: individual graves marked with crosses. Hardly a pit where bodies were dumped.
This is what's in our "press"...

Ukrainian officials say ...
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukrainians-find-bodies-with-hands-tied-in-mass
-burial-site-near-izyum/32037744.html

Top Ukraine official says...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/top-ukraine-official-says-450-bod
ies-found-in-izyum-mass-grave-some-with-hands-tied-behind-their-backs/ar-AA11WrMb

Ukraine says...
https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2022/09/18/russia-ukraine-war-
izyum-residents-search-mass-grave-after-russians-driven-out/

Ukrainian official says ...
https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-eneds-to-hold-russia-to-account-afte
r-mass-grave-found-in-ukraine-izium-5868015-Sep2022/

Ukrainian officials revealed ... https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/satellite-images-show-tanks-near-
izyum-mass-graves-month-before-bodies-found/ar-AA11W0Jx

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said ...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11218677/Mass-graves-Izyum-Ze
lensky-says-Russia-held-accountable.html

Do we have ANYTHING not coming from a "Ukraine official"? Meanwhile back in Bucha, the victims of a so-called "Russian massacre" who were supposedly executed before Russian withdrawal were not, in fact, executed. They were killed by anti-personnel shells containing flechettes.

The story NOW is that Russia shelled... ITSELF??? But Kiev uses the same shell, fired from the same kind of cannon, and most likely fired them at Bucha.

I'm shit-canning Kiev's accusations, along with the "Ghost of Kiev" and the rape stories told by "Ukrain officials" which turned out to be ... you guess it ... lies.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Sunday, September 18, 2022 7:10 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Same as it ever was...

Nobody gives a single shit about Ukraine.

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

6ix, I've seen this particular style of dealing with reality from Trumptards. Anybody, including Democrats, using this style will fall behind people who are repelled by the Trumptards' way of thinking. This style worked from 300,000 years ago until the 19th century, but isn't evolutionary adaptive today. More adaptive would be ignoring Ukraine, not having any opinion.

Clausewitz wrote that “the moral elements are among the most important in war. They constitute the spirit that permeates war as a whole.” Ukraine has those moral elements, and they are generating societal resilience and garnering international support.

Ukrainian staying power is changing the Russian approach. Although the Russian military has targeted civilian populations from the start, it has shifted dramatically in that direction as its invasion falters and is driven back. As Russia’s failures on the battlefield mount, it will lose its military effectiveness — which will further shift the Russian way of war from fighting an army to punishing civilians it could not conquer.

Could the Russians escalate more, and more wildly? Yes, absolutely. The possibility of Russia using a nuclear weapon on Kyiv as Russia’s military is forced to retreat is discussed frequently in policy circles in Kyiv. But I heard no variation on the conclusion by Ukrainians that it would change only the cost, not the outcome, of the war. Russia is already purposely inflicting civilian casualties indiscriminately and in large numbers.

As Ukrainians defend their country, you can see what Abraham Lincoln called “the solemn pride that must be yours to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukrainian-success-will-not-be-cat
astrophic/ar-AA11VTT6

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Sunday, September 18, 2022 8:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Same as it ever was...

Nobody gives a single shit about Ukraine.

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus
6ix, I've seen this particular style of dealing with reality from Trumptards. Anybody, including Democrats, using this style will fall behind people who are repelled by the Trumptards' way of thinking. This style worked from 300,000 years ago until the 19th century, but isn't evolutionary adaptive today. More adaptive would be ignoring Ukraine, not having any opinion.

That's what I do about it in real life.

Just like everybody else in the world who doesn't give a shit about Ukraine.

It's just you, Ted, Joe Biden*, some idiots in the media, and some occasional douchebag with a Ukraine bumper sticker that pretend to care. Yanno... the type of guy who still wears his covid mask when driving alone in his car from work to go home and jerk off to MSNBC with a condom on.

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Sunday, September 18, 2022 10:27 AM

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It wasn't a "mass grave", it was a burial site: individual graves marked with crosses. Hardly a pit where bodies were dumped..

Hey - you're not lying again are you? (trick question)

According to Ziggy, It's not a mass grave if "400+ bodies are buried separately."

And how could you possibly know how many bodies are under each cross?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The story NOW is that Russia shelled... ITSELF??? But Kiev uses the same shell, fired from the same kind of cannon, and most likely fired them at Bucha.

What do you mean, "the story NOW is?" Who's story? And what do you mean by "most likely?" According to whom? You can't even bother to lie believably. We Deserve Better Lies from You! Come on!

Didn't you suggest that Ukraine was bombing it's own Nuclear power station at one point? And now you suggest they killed 440 of their own people? Why 440? Wouldn't 50 be enough to make the point? You are promoting a staggering amount of stupid.

Bottom line - none of this happens without Dickhead invading Ukraine.

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Sunday, September 18, 2022 12:54 PM