REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

CBC reporter quits over ultra"woke" agenda. Meanwhile real news gets ignored

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Thursday, January 20, 2022 02:11
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Wednesday, January 5, 2022 9:51 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Canadian journalist quit CBC over woke ‘radical political agenda’

A veteran news producer for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation has said she quit in disgust at the national network jettisoning “journalistic integrity” for a woke “radical political agenda.”

In an op-ed for the National Post, Tara Henley said she left following a flood of complaints about the dramatic change at the CBC over the last 18 months.

Working at the network now involves having to “abandon journalistic integrity,” Henley insisted.

“It is to sign on, enthusiastically, to a radical political agenda that originated on Ivy League campuses in the United States and spread through American social media platforms that monetize outrage and stoke societal divisions.

“It is to pretend that the ‘woke’ worldview is near universal — even if it is far from popular with those you know, and speak to, and interview, and read,” she said.

CBC staff have to “accept the idea that race is the most significant thing about a person, and that some races are more relevant to the public conversation than others.”

“It is, in my newsroom, to fill out racial profile forms for every guest you book; to actively book more people of some races and less of others,” she claimed.

She said the radical change at the broadcaster led to a flood of complaints in the months before she quit.

“People want to know why, for example, non-binary Filipinos concerned about a lack of LGBT terms in Tagalog is an editorial priority for the CBC, when local issues of broad concern go unreported,” she wrote.



https://nypost.com/2022/01/05/canadian-journalist-tara-henley-quit-cbc
-over-woke-agenda
/

I was always disgusted by "Justine" Trudeau's over-wokeness. Doesn't he have anything better to think about?

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Wednesday, January 5, 2022 10:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Meanwhile why is this not front-page news?



Quote:

Meet Jed Rakoff, The Judge Who Exposed The "Rigged Game"
Wednesday, Jan 05, 2022 - 08:40 PM

Authored by Matt Taibbi via TK News,

On November 27, 2011, a federal judge named Jed Rakoff threw out a $285 million regulatory settlement between Citigroup and the Securities and Exchange Commission, blasting it as “neither fair, nor reasonable, nor adequate, nor in the public interest.” The S.E.C. and Citigroup were stunned. Expecting to see their malodorous deal wrapped up, the parties were instead directed “to be ready to try this case” the following summer.
Jed Rakoff

Try a case? Was the judge kidding? A pattern had long ago been established in which mega-companies like Citigroup that were implicated in serious offenses would be let off with slaps on the wrist, by soft-touch regulators who expected judges to play ball. These officials in many cases were private sector hotshots doing temporary tours as regulators, denizens of the revolving door biding time before parachuting back into lucrative corporate defense jobs. A judge who refused to sign the settlements such folks engineered was derailing everyone’s gravy train.

Citigroup had replicated a scheme employed by numerous big banks of the era, helping construct a “born to lose” portfolio of rotten mortgage securities to be unloaded on customer-dupes, who were unaware the bank intended to bet against them. A similar case involving a Goldman, Sachs deal called “Abacus” had concluded the previous year with a hefty fine, but, infamously, no admission of wrongdoing.

In the Citigroup version, the bank earned $160 million in profits, customers lost $700 million, and the S.E.C. wanted to impose a $285 million fine. As noted by papers like the Washington Post at the time, the S.E.C.’s logic was to ask the bank to return the money ($160 million plus interest equaled $190 million) and pay a $95 million civil penalty on top.

Citigroup that quarter alone earned $3.8 billion in profits, which meant the S.E.C. proposed to charge the bank — which had been functionally bankrupt in 2008 and was booming again thanks to a massive public bailout, engineered in part by former Citi officials by the way — a fee of 2.5% of its quarterly profits. In a country where an ordinary schlub could get multiple years in prison for something like third-degree attempted theft of a car, seeking no individual penalties and asking shareholders to forego a tiny fraction of earnings as restitution for stealing $160 million was a joke.

The fine was “pocket change to any entity as large as Citigroup,” noted Rakoff, in a blistering 15-page opinion. Objecting to the practice of allowing corporate crooks to walk away without admission of wrongdoing, he noted that Citigroup had already begun asserting its right to deny the allegations, both in litigation and to the media. This, he said, left the public despairing “of ever knowing the truth in a matter of obvious public importance.”

Such a policy, he concluded, would reduce the court to “a mere handmaiden to a settlement privately negotiated on the basis of unknown facts.” And, well, screw that.

There was cheering in the legal community and even in the press (“Judge Jed Rakoff Courageously Rejects SEC-Citigroup Settlement” was the Post headline) for a few minutes. Then came the inevitable plot twist. Citigroup and the S.E.C., robber and cop, joined together to appeal the decision, forcing Rakoff to retain counsel. Before long, Rakoff was overturned. An appeals court judge ruled he had stepped out of bounds by demanding the “truth” behind allegations, saying “consent decrees are primarily about pragmatism.”
The original dirty deal was re-routed back to Rakoff, who was then forced by the appeals court to approve it. “That court has now fixed the menu, leaving this court with nothing but sour grapes,” Rakoff wrote in a succinct but seething opinion, adding one parting warning:

This court fears that, as a result of the Court of Appeal’s decision, the settlements reached by governmental regulatory bodies and enforced by the judiciary’s contempt powers will in practice be subject to no meaningful oversight whatsoever.

The symbolism of the Rakoff episode was striking. Citigroup had been created by something like the ultimate insider deal. The merger of Citicorp and the insurance conglomerate Travelers had been struck in the late nineties despite apparently conflicting with several laws, including the Glass-Steagall Act and the Bank Holding Company Act of 1956.

The merger to create the first American “supermarket bank” only happened because a temporary waiver was granted by Alan Greenspan’s Federal Reserve. This held up in time for Bill Clinton to sign a bipartisan piece of legislation called the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, sanctifying the deal after the fact. Former Clinton Treasury Secretary Bob Rubin then skedaddled to a job at the new super-bank that Citi itself described as having “no line responsibilities,” but nonetheless would go on to earn Rubin $115 million, a transaction that grossed out even the Wall Street Journal.

Thus the way the S.E.C. and the Appellate Courts essentially joined hands with this particular firm to strike down Rakoff’s ruling was a graphic demonstration of the self-defense capability of what one former Senate aide I know calls “The Blob,” i.e. the matrix of interconnected (and, not infrequently, intermarried) lawyers, lobbyists, politicians, and executives who run the country from the Washington-New York corridor. I don’t think it’s an accident that politicians in both parties, ranging from Bernie Sanders to Donald Trump, began scoring political points by talking about the “rigged game” just after Rakoff’s Capra-esque gesture was overturned. What did Rakoff himself think?

MORE AT https://www.zerohedge.com/political/taibbi-meet-jed-rakoff-judge-who-e
xposed-rigged-game



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Thursday, January 6, 2022 8:40 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Along the lines of the Citibank post above and the second sentence of the thread title...



Yup. I never heard of that Walgreens story before.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Thursday, January 6, 2022 8:45 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Russell Brand I wonder if he's on Odysee or Bitchute

Won't be long before he's banned from youtube and channel suspended or all his vids 404 error'ed

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Friday, January 7, 2022 2:54 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Meanwhile why is this not front-page news?



Quote:

Meet Jed Rakoff, The Judge Who Exposed The "Rigged Game"
Wednesday, Jan 05, 2022 - 08:40 PM

Authored by Matt Taibbi via TK News,

On November 27, 2011, a federal judge named Jed Rakoff threw out a $285 million regulatory settlement between Citigroup and the Securities and Exchange Commission, blasting it as “neither fair, nor reasonable, nor adequate, nor in the public interest.”


But then his judicial powers were overturned and a rigged settlement was stuffed down his throat.

I wasn't ignoring your excellent news find. I read this and I was pissed off. I'm still pissed off. Precedent is important, unless someone can take it to the Supreme Court and get a favorable ruling.


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Friday, January 7, 2022 6:36 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Seems to me that most people who complain about woke just feel pissed off that they can spill their bigotted bile without actually getting push back.

"Back in the day, you could squeeze a lassies titties and she knew it was a joke, nowadays everyone is sooooo woke..."

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Friday, January 7, 2022 10:46 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Sit down, Karen.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Friday, January 7, 2022 11:49 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Bill and Trump were sleazy...but who is

Anthony Weiner...and

Kathy Shelton...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathy_Shelton


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:


"Back in the day, you could squeeze a lassies titties and she knew it was a joke, nowadays everyone is sooooo woke..."



They said Harvey Weinstein was good because he vowed to fight NRA or some other leftwing tinseltown shit?


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Friday, January 7, 2022 1:55 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Seems to me that most people who complain about woke just feel pissed off that they can spill their bigotted bile without actually getting push back.

"Back in the day, you could squeeze a lassies titties and she knew it was a joke, nowadays everyone is sooooo woke..."



Maybe things are different in Australia,more backwards, but I call baloney on this, MAGONS.

Today, people get offended if you don't call them by the right pronoun- which they have arbitrarily decided is theirs- and obsess over the lack of non-gendered pronouns in Tagalog? Male rapists can arbtrarily decide that they're women and get sent to women's prisons? Math, hard work, and punctuality are "white"? Cooking an ethnic dish is "cultural appropriation"? Using words like "black" and "brown" are "mucroaggressions"? University students need cuddle puppies (poor puppies, being manhandled by a series of random needy strangers!) and coloring-book "safe spaces"?

Meanwhile, it's OK to say "whites are racist", "whites are evil and should be killed" and we're all supposed to accept that?

SERIOUSLY??

I know bigoted bile when I hear it. Having worked in a male-dominated profession and experienced ACTUAL discrimination (not allowed to do field work because "we always had a woman in the lab") and ACTUAL sexual harassment, I think ppl are being overly sensitive.

I used to supervise a fairly large group, and one of my team filed 25 complaints - 25!! - against various people including against her closest friend, and only one was justified.

I have sat people down and required apologies for insensitive or insulting comments, and faced down hyper-aggressive staff who tended to ball up their fists and yell. Privately counseled gay and drug-usimg staff on their HIV and HepC problems and clipped someone, repeatedly, for his insulting/ sarcastic sense of "humor" (which did not go over well with most of the female Asian staff, I can tell you!).

So it's not like I didn't address problems. BUT, some people are just overly sensitive and can't be happy with common politeness, they insist on carrying their grievances wherever they go and demand continuous recognition for the precious unique snowflakes that they are.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Friday, January 7, 2022 2:18 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Seems to me that most people who complain about woke just feel pissed off that they can spill their bigotted bile without actually getting push back.

"Back in the day, you could squeeze a lassies titties and she knew it was a joke, nowadays everyone is sooooo woke..."

oh BTW, that's bigoted bile. You would not get away with saying that in my former workplace.

Like I said, maybe things are different there. I've heard Australia is still a pretty sexist place. Is that true?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Friday, January 7, 2022 3:06 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Seems to me that most people who complain about woke just feel pissed off that they can spill their bigotted bile without actually getting push back.

"Back in the day, you could squeeze a lassies titties and she knew it was a joke, nowadays everyone is sooooo woke..."



Maybe things are different in Australia,more backwards, but I call baloney on this, MAGONS.

Today, people get offended if you don't call them by the right pronoun- which they have arbitrarily decided is theirs- and obsess over the lack of non-gendered pronouns in Tagalog? Male rapists can arbtrarily decide that they're women and get sent to women's prisons? Math, hard work, and punctuality are "white"? Cooking an ethnic dish is "cultural appropriation"? Using words like "black" and "brown" are "mucroaggressions"? University students need cuddle puppies (poor puppies, being manhandled by a series of random needy strangers!) and coloring-book "safe spaces"?

Meanwhile, it's OK to say "whites are racist", "whites are evil and should be killed" and we're all supposed to accept that?

SERIOUSLY??

I know bigoted bile when I hear it. Having worked in a male-dominated profession and experienced ACTUAL discrimination (not allowed to do field work because "we always had a woman in the lab") and ACTUAL sexual harassment, I think ppl are being overly sensitive.

I used to supervise a fairly large group, and one of my team filed 25 complaints - 25!! - against various people including against her closest friend, and only one was justified.

I have sat people down and required apologies for insensitive or insulting comments, and faced down hyper-aggressive staff who tended to ball up their fists and yell. Privately counseled gay and drug-usimg staff on their HIV and HepC problems and clipped someone, repeatedly, for his insulting/ sarcastic sense of "humor" (which did not go over well with most of the female Asian staff, I can tell you!).

So it's not like I didn't address problems. BUT, some people are just overly sensitive and can't be happy with common politeness, they insist on carrying their grievances wherever they go and demand continuous recognition for the precious unique snowflakes that they are.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake




Too bad it's not still 2021, or that would have been post of the year.

Way to early to call it for 2022.



--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Saturday, January 8, 2022 11:37 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Canadian journalist explains why she quit CBC and joined Substack over wokeness

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10369087/Canadian-journalist-
explains-quit-CBC-joined-Substack-wokeness.html

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Thursday, January 13, 2022 7:33 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Seems to me that most people who complain about woke just feel pissed off that they can spill their bigotted bile without actually getting push back.

"Back in the day, you could squeeze a lassies titties and she knew it was a joke, nowadays everyone is sooooo woke..."



Maybe things are different in Australia,more backwards, but I call baloney on this, MAGONS.


Ouch that hurt - especially coming from an American :) Now if you were European I would probably say you had a point.

Quote:

Today, people get offended if you don't call them by the right pronoun- which they have arbitrarily decided is theirs- and obsess over the lack of non-gendered pronouns in Tagalog? Male rapists can arbtrarily decide that they're women and get sent to women's prisons? Math, hard work, and punctuality are "white"? Cooking an ethnic dish is "cultural appropriation"? Using words like "black" and "brown" are "mucroaggressions"? University students need cuddle puppies (poor puppies, being manhandled by a series of random needy strangers!) and coloring-book "safe spaces"?

Meanwhile, it's OK to say "whites are racist", "whites are evil and should be killed" and we're all supposed to accept that?

SERIOUSLY??

I know bigoted bile when I hear it. Having worked in a male-dominated profession and experienced ACTUAL discrimination (not allowed to do field work because "we always had a woman in the lab") and ACTUAL sexual harassment, I think ppl are being overly sensitive.

I used to supervise a fairly large group, and one of my team filed 25 complaints - 25!! - against various people including against her closest friend, and only one was justified.

I have sat people down and required apologies for insensitive or insulting comments, and faced down hyper-aggressive staff who tended to ball up their fists and yell. Privately counseled gay and drug-usimg staff on their HIV and HepC problems and clipped someone, repeatedly, for his insulting/ sarcastic sense of "humor" (which did not go over well with most of the female Asian staff, I can tell you!).

So it's not like I didn't address problems. BUT, some people are just overly sensitive and can't be happy with common politeness, they insist on carrying their grievances wherever they go and demand continuous recognition for the precious unique snowflakes that they are.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake




I would probably agree with much of what you say here actually. People sometimes seem to fight the wrong battles in my view, but I do see that people who throw around the word 'woke' often don't like being called out on their views, or being asked to consider something uncomfortable about their own position of priviledge, to which they are often largely blind. It's easy to dismiss something as 'woke' if it makes you uncomfortable.

Some of the stuff you mention makes me uncomfortable too, but I get that the pronounn thing was meant to demonstrate being an ally to a group of people who traditionally have had it very tough. Lots of violence and discrimination against TRans people, having worked with a couple many years ago before they started to lobby.

I have learned that sometimes bringing about change means you ahve to be a bit unpleasant, you have to get bolshy in order to get your view across. You have to piss off the status quo,

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Thursday, January 13, 2022 8:43 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I have learned that sometimes bringing about change



You didn't learn anything. You were propagandized.

Quote:

means you ahve to be a bit unpleasant, you have to get bolshy in order to get your view across. You have to piss off the status quo,



That's either some Aussie slang that I'm not familiar with, or Mags just admitted to being a Bolshevik.

We already know she loves her government for throwing her fellow citizens in cages, so either way this conversation ends here.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Magonsdaughter:
Seems to me that most people who complain about woke just feel pissed off that they can spill their bigotted bile without actually getting push back.

"Back in the day, you could squeeze a lassies titties and she knew it was a joke, nowadays everyone is sooooo woke..."

SIGNY: Maybe things are different in Australia,more backwards, but I call baloney on this, MAGONS.

MAGONS: Ouch that hurt - especially coming from an American :) Now if you were European I would probably say you had a point.



Maybe there is a mutual misunderstanding. My impression of Australia (you ARE Australian?) is that there is a tight, macho, male-bonded culture that revolves around sports and beer, from which women are excluded; and that women are thought of (by men) as being lesser creatures, somehow.

What is your impression of America? (Don't judge us by the posters here, or by our movies!)

Quote:

SIGNY: Today, people get offended if you don't call them by the right pronoun- which they have arbitrarily decided is theirs- and obsess over the lack of non-gendered pronouns in Tagalog? Male rapists can arbtrarily decide that they're women and get sent to women's prisons? Math, hard work, and punctuality are "white"? Cooking an ethnic dish is "cultural appropriation"? Using words like "black" and "brown" are "mucroaggressions"? University students need cuddle puppies (poor puppies, being manhandled by a series of random needy strangers!) and coloring-book "safe spaces"?

Meanwhile, it's OK to say "whites are racist", "whites are evil and should be killed" and we're all supposed to accept that?

SERIOUSLY??

I know bigoted bile when I hear it. Having worked in a male-dominated profession and experienced ACTUAL discrimination (not allowed to do field work because "we always had a woman in the lab") and ACTUAL sexual harassment, I think ppl are being overly sensitive.

I used to supervise a fairly large group, and one of my team filed 25 complaints - 25!! - against various people including against her closest friend, and only one was justified.

I have sat people down and required apologies for insensitive or insulting comments, and faced down hyper-aggressive staff who tended to ball up their fists and yell. Privately counseled gay and drug-usimg staff on their HIV and HepC problems and clipped someone, repeatedly, for his insulting/ sarcastic sense of "humor" (which did not go over well with most of the female Asian staff, I can tell you!).

So it's not like I didn't address problems. BUT, some people are just overly sensitive and can't be happy with common politeness, they insist on carrying their grievances wherever they go and demand continuous recognition for the precious unique snowflakes that they are.

MAGONS: I would probably agree with much of what you say here actually. People sometimes seem to fight the wrong battles in my view, but I do see that people who throw around the word 'woke' often don't like being called out on their views, or being asked to consider something uncomfortable about their own position of priviledge, to which they are often largely blind. It's easy to dismiss something as 'woke' if it makes you uncomfortable.

Position of privilege? I don't consider almost anyone in the USA to be in a "privileged" position. Some (tall white good looking men,good looking young women) have a bit more advantage than others, but in a system that is fundamentally rapacious you don't fix the problem by jiggering small differences in advantage.

BTW I've seen three fundamentally incompetent women hired and promoted at work bc they were good looking and pleasant. As the only female on the review panel, I argued strenuously against the decisions but was overruled. I've also seen dumpy-looking people who were suspected of being gay shit on by a religious, biased manager. And there is a definite bias against anyone over 55. Bias runs in all directions.

In CA, by the time you parse thru all of the "protected classes" (sex, race, gender, religion age etc etc) there is only ONE "unprotected" group- white, hetero, Xtian, non-aged, males. And they are ... what? Fair game? Shouldn't we All be protected against discrimination and rude behavior?

Quote:

MAGONS: Some of the stuff you mention makes me uncomfortable too, but I get that the pronounn thing was meant to demonstrate being an ally to a group of people who traditionally have had it very tough. Lots of violence and discrimination against TRans people, having worked with a couple many years ago before they started to lobby.

I have learned that sometimes bringing about change means you ahve to be a bit unpleasant, you have to get bolshy in order to get your view across. You have to piss off the status quo,

That's not pissing off the status quo, it just pisses off ordinary people who have to listen to all the whining.

The ruling elite have no problem with .. in fact, they take advantage of... the fact that we are dividing ourselves into smaller and smaller competing groups fighting over crumbs of "privilege". If you look at the gap between where we ordinary peons live v the REAL privileged elite, the difference between us peons is miniscule. None of us have any REAL agency over how our economy runs, do we? When was the last time you decided on building a factory in Australia? And isn't all of the fuss, in the end, about money? (Who gets the better job, who lives in a safer neighborhood or- here in the USA- who gets healthcare?) Instead of fighting over crumbs of "privilege", why don't we do away with the elephant in the room?

Obviously, I don't condone discrimination, much less violence, against targeted groups, but can't we just commit to a standard of behavior that applies to everyone, and true meritocracy instead of fucking around like this?

You know my tag line?

"I believe in solving problems, not sharing them"?

Well, I believe in solving the lack of opportunity, for EVERYONE, not in ensuring that we're all equally shat upon... or fighting to make sure that somebody else is shat upon more. All of this "wokeness", as far as I'm concerned, is just a major distracting ploy by the privileged elite to prevent us from addressing the REAL problem.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Thursday, January 13, 2022 7:59 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


There's two problems, Sigs.

The first is after being so deeply propagandized, when somebody like Mags or Wish look at a white male, all they think of is Trump.

I can assure you that I have far more in common with any black man I've ever worked along side of than Trump or anybody he's ever worked along side of. The only two people I even still talk to from my last job are both black, and one of them emailed me just the other day to ask how I've been doing.


The second problem?

I'll let this video do the explaining.





--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Thursday, January 13, 2022 11:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Yep, leftists think they're better people.

But then, MOST people think they're better people! People do what they do, and hold the opinions that they do, BECAUSE they think it makes them "better". Only a sociopath decides to be an a-hole.

What I find problematic isn't that leftists think that they're better (more moral, righteous) but the certainty with which some hold those ideas. That certainty allows them to justify doing horrific things in the name of those righteous thoughts.

There seems to be a general unwillingness to listen, consider another POV, take facts into account, and use logic. But I find that to be a problem everywhere on the political spectrum. People in the grip of an ideology often lose perspective.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Thursday, January 13, 2022 11:52 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Yeah, but the difference is the BAMN (By Any Means Necessary) mentality. Hell... BLM's ultra-Leftist arm even calls themselves that.

I'm happy living a Don't Tread On Me lifestyle. I'm practically a pacifist, and certainly not an aggressor.

I feel like consenting adults can do whatever the fuck they want to do as long as they're not inconveniencing me.


Sure. I might troll these days because I'm just absolutely sick of their behavior. I'm tired of assholes who don't know fuck all about me calling me a piece of shit (Nazi, Russian, Alt-Right, Racist, etc.) because I'm white and I have a pair of balls and I won't kneel at the altar of woke and apologize for my skin color and testosterone level.

But words aren't violence. You see what today's Left is like.

They're Vile.

15-20 years ago I was practically a Democrat, I was so anti-Republican.

They're the ones who made it VERY clear they didn't want me if I wasn't going to be ashamed of my race and gender.

Fuck the Left.

They're about to burn themselves at the stake.

Hopefully something better rises from the ashes, because I'll be the first one to tell you that a one-party America isn't going to last long.


I'm not a Republican. I'm politically homeless.

--------------------------------------------------

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Friday, January 14, 2022 2:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


The problem with "the left" ("progressives", "social justice warriors", "BLM", "Antifa" or whatver they call themselves) isn't their "by any means necessary" mantra.

They're all over the political and religious spectrum. If they were Muslim we'd call them jihadists. If they were anti-establishment we'd call them "revolutonaries". If they believed that whites were truly superior we'd call them "white supremacists". In any case,we'd call them "extremists".

The problem with "the left", or however they choose to call themselves is that they're backed by people with real money and real power: the media, big tech, the DNC, Wall Street. Without that backing, they'd just be loose wingnuts trolling on fff.net.

The funny thing is, these people actually think they're "fighting the status quo!" Haven't they bothered to wonder why big money is mouthing their causes(s)?

Boy, are they naive!! Until you affect the big corporations' bottom lines ... and the rules that govern their behavior ... you have't done dick. If you're doing something real, you'll get pushback: not from little people like you and me who have no power, but from seriously wealthy and powerful people. Push hard enough, and you will be discredited, threatened, ruined, possibly jailed, or even killed. Nobody on "the left" has even come close to touching that third rail. ergo, they're not doing anything that REMOTELY affects the power structure, the status quo.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Friday, January 14, 2022 10:55 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Punctuality is whiteness.


I have heard this said.
But I always assumed it was a joke, a caricature, a pejorative. To say that blacks were incapable of being punctual, productive, competent, lawful just seemed mocking.

But now I see they are serious. For blacks to consider lateness, incompetence, tardiness, laziness, addictions, and lawbreaking to be virtues is just jarring to me - a logic failure. Seems more antisocial than any inherent sociability.

I have understood that some blacks practice criminality as a virtue, but I had considered that as merely gang related action, similar to Italians or East Coast morals.


I am rethinking my experiences with friends and co-workers who were black.
I guess the goal is for us to pity them, as we would the mentally retarded. Little wonder they maintain a socially isolated clique, whereas I merely thought they were being racist.

Boggles the mind a bit.

Until now, I had not considered that blacks might be an inherently alien species, antithetical to the human condition of striving, prisoners to the geneologic failures and faults of their race, like any dog or monkey. I had assumed they were capable of thought, rationality, and I granted them equal intellectual footing. Not realizing they were striving to be less, the lowest they could be.

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Friday, January 14, 2022 11:44 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Punctuality is whiteness.


I have heard this said.
But I always assumed it was a joke, a caricature, a pejorative. To say that blacks were incapable of being punctual, productive, competent, lawful just seemed mocking.

But now I see they are serious. For blacks to consider lateness, incompetence, tardiness, laziness, addictions, and lawbreaking to be virtues is just jarring to me - a logic failure. Seems more antisocial than any inherent sociability.

I have understood that some blacks practice criminality as a virtue, but I had considered that as merely gang related action, similar to Italians or East Coast morals.


I am rethinking my experiences with friends and co-workers who were black.
I guess the goal is for us to pity them, as we would the mentally retarded. Little wonder they maintain a socially isolated clique, whereas I merely thought they were being racist.

Boggles the mind a bit.

Until now, I had not considered that blacks might be an inherently alien species, antithetical to the human condition of striving, prisoners to the geneologic failures and faults of their race, like any dog or monkey. I had assumed they were capable of thought, rationality, and I granted them equal intellectual footing. Not realizing they were striving to be less, the lowest they could be.




Yeah, but not to sound like Mags or Nilbog, but #NotAllBlackPeople.

This has nothing to do with their race or the skin color they were born with.

Just like white people being conditioned with the woke bullshit, Blacks have been conditioned with plenty of ego destroying shit too.

Their "leaders", remind them all the time to vote straight Democrat down the ticket or else they're betraying their race, yet voting Democrat has never done black people any good. All the major metropolitan areas are Democrat, and they're all bankrupt, crime-ridden shitholes; the most dangerous places in the country to live.

The Democrat ran school system is a fuckin' joke, but it's 10 times worse in these metropolitian areas than it is in the suburbs or rural areas. What little effort is spent in those buildings is making sure nobody kills each other. In real life, there is no Jamie Escalante raising any of these kids up and giving them their ego back.

They're told all day long they have no options and won't go anywhere in life by the people who are supposed to be teaching them how to do something with their life. They're taught they're not people because they're black. They're taught that they have no real future because they're black.

But just because they're being taught to be this way doesn't mean they all do. It's almost certainly not an instinctual thing.



One of the guys I still talk to from my last job recently bought his first house with his wife and they're remodeling it now. He always talked about how he was going to get into real estate and start renting properties so he didn't have to do that the rest of his life. Step one is done. Once that house is ready they can start renting it out and work on another one. He first told me about his dreams 4 years ago and it's just now happening. Anything worth having doesn't come easy and doesn't come immediately.

The manager I had at the job a few years prior to that was investigating government grants to create a mentorship program for black kids. He now runs a small outfit that gets kids off the streets in Illinois and teaches them things like doing their taxes and budgeting and saving and how and why these skills can help them later in life, as well as teaching them skills like do-it-yourself work and providing them with the tools. He doesn't have a huge organization and his reach is limited, but somebody along the line gave him a leg up and got him onto a path where he could break free of those ego-destroying formative years and it was important to him that he do what he could to help other people get out of that hole.


Quote:

Punctuality is whiteness.

I have heard this said.
But I always assumed it was a joke, a caricature, a pejorative. To say that blacks were incapable of being punctual, productive, competent, lawful just seemed mocking.



It is mocking. It's destructive. It IS what they're being taught in school.

--------------------------------------------------

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Friday, January 14, 2022 12:31 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The problem with "the left" ("progressives", "social justice warriors", "BLM", "Antifa" or whatver they call themselves) isn't their "by any means necessary" mantra.



It's a VERY large part of it. "You're going to do EXACTLY as I say or you are going to pay the price" is not a healthy attitude. It's what sociopaths do. It's what hypocrites do. It violates any form of good including the Golden Rule.

Quote:

They're all over the political and religious spectrum. If they were Muslim we'd call them jihadists. If they were anti-establishment we'd call them "revolutonaries". If they believed that whites were truly superior we'd call them "white supremacists". In any case,we'd call them "extremists".


I'd like you to clarify this part of your post. I had started writing a reply, but then realized I don't think I'm actually understanding where you were getting at and didn't want to go off topic.

Quote:

The problem with "the left", or however they choose to call themselves is that they're backed by people with real money and real power: the media, big tech, the DNC, Wall Street. Without that backing, they'd just be loose wingnuts trolling on fff.net.

The funny thing is, these people actually think they're "fighting the status quo!" Haven't they bothered to wonder why big money is mouthing their causes(s)?

Boy, are they naive!! Until you affect the big corporations' bottom lines ... and the rules that govern their behavior ... you have't done dick. If you're doing something real, you'll get pushback: not from little people like you and me who have no power, but from seriously wealthy and powerful people. Push hard enough, and you will be discredited, threatened, ruined, possibly jailed, or even killed. Nobody on "the left" has even come close to touching that third rail. ergo, they're not doing anything that REMOTELY affects the power structure, the status quo.



I can't argue that point. But I think you're going beyond my point here and referring to the powerful people with money who are pulling the strings. I'm talking about bottom feeders like you and I and the rest of the 90% of us.

Hitchens said you can't have a debate with somebody who despises you. This is obviously true.

Look at the devolution of my relationship with Wishimay over the years as an example of that. When we first met here, she, JO and I regularly posted outside of the RWED. I posted a lot of pics of the work I was doing, she would post about things that she and her husband were doing, JO was developing nualf and talking about some pretty fantastical math things that were way over my head. We liked each other.

Sometime along the line I turned into a full-time alcoholic and abandoned that and Wish seemed to have made the jump to spending most of her time in the RWED when on this site. By the time I finally woke up out of my 5 year long alcohol bender, she hated me. I'm sure that I was at fault for that and I did or said things that I shouldn't have.

But I tried, for a very long time to diffuse that situation and get back into her good graces. But eventually I figured out that this wasn't even possible. The Wish I knew before I disappeared into myself wasn't even there anymore.

I was a white male. I didn't agree with her politics. I was an irredeemable piece of trash. If she had her way, I would be first in line for her proposed genocide.

I'm not trying to shirk any responsibility of mine here. I don't know exactly how or when I destroyed our relationship, and being drunk is not an excuse for bad behavior. But I did try, many, many times to apologize to her for anything I'd done.

But it was too late. This wasn't even about me anymore. Something had changed with her in real life. Possibly some sort of major life-changing event for her or somebody she cared about. She was full of hate now. And I had apparently made myself a great lightning rod for her hatered with something (many things?) I said or did while I was drinking myself to death.


It was hard for me to finally turn on her like I did. One of the memories I have a vague recollection of during my drinking days was seeing her go into the RWED and start getting into arguments here and I implored her to stay out of the RWED.

But you can only be abused so long by somebody before you tell them to fuck off.

Wish and I were never, ever going to be able to have a debate about any topic. She hated me with every fiber of her being, even to the point of flat out denying that we ever enjoyed each other's online company with JO despite a long post history that says otherwise.

--------------------------------------------------

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Friday, January 14, 2022 1:39 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Punctuality is whiteness.


I have heard this said.
But I always assumed it was a joke, a caricature, a pejorative. To say that blacks were incapable of being punctual, productive, competent, lawful just seemed mocking.

But now I see they are serious. For blacks to consider lateness, incompetence, tardiness, laziness, addictions, and lawbreaking to be virtues is just jarring to me - a logic failure. Seems more antisocial than any inherent sociability.

I have understood that some blacks practice criminality as a virtue, but I had considered that as merely gang related action, similar to Italians or East Coast morals.


I am rethinking my experiences with friends and co-workers who were black.
I guess the goal is for us to pity them, as we would the mentally retarded. Little wonder they maintain a socially isolated clique, whereas I merely thought they were being racist.

Boggles the mind a bit.

Until now, I had not considered that blacks might be an inherently alien species, antithetical to the human condition of striving, prisoners to the geneologic failures and faults of their race, like any dog or monkey. I had assumed they were capable of thought, rationality, and I granted them equal intellectual footing. Not realizing they were striving to be less, the lowest they could be.

There's a difference between instinctual behavior and trained or "socially accepted" accepted behavior.

If hard work, punctuality, education, etc are NOT REWARDED, then eventually you stop practicing those behaviors. Where I worked (govt agency) hard work was rewarded with more work, whereas work tended to "flow around" those who skated. There were ppl who milked the system for OT by doing as little as they could- taking 2-hour lunch breaks etc so they could goof off on OT after hours as well, doing stock trades or whatever. I CHOSE to work hard bc it was in my upbringing, but I can see that corrosive influence everywhere in society today: the person who works diligently, pays their taxes, saves their money, looks after their family etc is a SUCKER bc speculating, or living on government dole, is what's rewarded, in real life. When your society is set up to reward bad behavior and dis-incentivize good behavior, that's what you'll get. It's a cultural thing. That BTW is the corrosive effect of unemployment and underemployment, and all of the "adjustments" that our society has made to accommodate parasitical/unproductive people.

The "black community" mostly shares common experiences having to do with lack of reward for hard work. If you have to work three times harder and be five times better than the next guy, but for less pay, experience eventually tells you that it's not worth it and you will come to resent "the system". And what is portrayed in the larger society as positive attributes becomes a farce, a lie- the carrot at the end of the stick is (almost) always out of reach. You will teach your children to reject those values, and anyone who attempts to integrate themselves into the larger society will be seen as a "race traitor".



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Friday, January 14, 2022 2:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

SIGNYM:
The problem with "the left" ("progressives", "social justice warriors", "BLM", "Antifa" or whatver they call themselves) isn't their "by any means necessary" mantra.

SIX: It's a VERY large part of it. "You're going to do EXACTLY as I say or you are going to pay the price" is not a healthy attitude. It's what sociopaths do. It's what hypocrites do. It violates any form of good including the Golden Rule.

SIGNY: They're all over the political and religious spectrum. If they were Muslim we'd call them jihadists. If they were anti-establishment we'd call them "revolutonaries". If they believed that whites were truly superior we'd call them "white supremacists". In any case,we'd call them "extremists".

SIX: I'd like you to clarify this part of your post. I had started writing a reply, but then realized I don't think I'm actually understanding where you were getting at and didn't want to go off topic.

I guess I wasn't clear. There are examples of

"You're going to do EXACTLY as I say or you are going to pay the price" in ALL political/religious belief systems. It's not restricted to "leftists".

Look at the Taliban: they are the epitome of a rigid, doctrinaire, authoritarian approach. I can see that in some ppl in the alt-right as well: they believe what they believe, and if you don't fall in line you will bear the brunt of whatever it is they can dish out. Now, bc the alt-right has very little actual power, "whatever they can dish out" tends to be limited to online trolling, but that doesn't take away from the fact that they believe they're righteous and that gives them the right to punish the non-believers in whatever way they can!

I think the mind-fuck comes in because "leftists" believe that they are all about individual freedom, even as they stomp on your face (metaphorically-speaking).



Quote:

SIGNY: The problem with "the left", or however they choose to call themselves is that they're backed by people with real money and real power: the media, big tech, the DNC, Wall Street. Without that backing, they'd just be loose wingnuts trolling on fff.net.

The funny thing is, these people actually think they're "fighting the status quo!" Haven't they bothered to wonder why big money is mouthing their causes(s)?

Boy, are they naive!! Until you affect the big corporations' bottom lines ... and the rules that govern their behavior ... you have't done dick. If you're doing something real, you'll get pushback: not from little people like you and me who have no power, but from seriously wealthy and powerful people. Push hard enough, and you will be discredited, threatened, ruined, possibly jailed, or even killed. Nobody on "the left" has even come close to touching that third rail. ergo, they're not doing anything that REMOTELY affects the power structure, the status quo.

SIX: I can't argue that point. But I think you're going beyond my point here and referring to the powerful people with money who are pulling the strings. I'm talking about bottom feeders like you and I and the rest of the 90% of us.

Hitchens said you can't have a debate with somebody who despises you. This is obviously true.

Look at the devolution of my relationship with Wishimay over the years as an example of that. When we first met here, she, JO and I regularly posted outside of the RWED. I posted a lot of pics of the work I was doing, she would post about things that she and her husband were doing, JO was developing nualf and talking about some pretty fantastical math things that were way over my head. We liked each other.

Sometime along the line I turned into a full-time alcoholic and abandoned that and Wish seemed to have made the jump to spending most of her time in the RWED when on this site. By the time I finally woke up out of my 5 year long alcohol bender, she hated me. I'm sure that I was at fault for that and I did or said things that I shouldn't have.

FWIW those posting were mostly inoffensive and mostly music. I can't recall a single thing I objected to. I was worried about you, isall.

Quote:

SIX: But I tried, for a very long time to diffuse that situation and get back into her good graces. But eventually I figured out that this wasn't even possible. The Wish I knew before I disappeared into myself wasn't even there anymore.

I was a white male. I didn't agree with her politics. I was an irredeemable piece of trash. If she had her way, I would be first in line for her proposed genocide.

I'm not trying to shirk any responsibility of mine here. I don't know exactly how or when I destroyed our relationship, and being drunk is not an excuse for bad behavior. But I did try, many, many times to apologize to her for anything I'd done.

But it was too late. This wasn't even about me anymore. Something had changed with her in real life. Possibly some sort of major life-changing event for her or somebody she cared about. She was full of hate now. And I had apparently made myself a great lightning rod for her hatered with something (many things?) I said or did while I was drinking myself to death.


It was hard for me to finally turn on her like I did. One of the memories I have a vague recollection of during my drinking days was seeing her go into the RWED and start getting into arguments here and I implored her to stay out of the RWED.

But you can only be abused so long by somebody before you tell them to fuck off.

Wish and I were never, ever going to be able to have a debate about any topic. She hated me with every fiber of her being, even to the point of flat out denying that we ever enjoyed each other's online company with JO despite a long post history that says otherwise.

I don't think it was you, SIX.

It was the media. Seriously. And it was all about Trump.

Look at my experience with JO, THUGR, SECOND, WISHY, G etc. I have posted here for well over a decade, MOSTLY on the anti-repub side! (Just ask AURAPTOR) But the media convinced many that Trump was a Kremlin asset, and that RUSSIA!RUSSIA! was behind every bad thing that ever happened.

And bc I was behind some of Trump's polcies I was suddenly tagged as a Russian troll by some people who truly believed it, and by some (SECOND, G) who knew better but cynically used other people's gullibilty against them and me. With THEIR direct experience with me, you'd think reality would have won out over disinformation. Sadly, it doesn't work that way!

TO THIS DAY JO BELIEVES I'M SOME DEEP KREMLIN PLANT, and seems to have slipped over the edge into believing that many posters here are simply my sock puppets (including, sadly, you).

But that's what I mean by dangerous:

These beliefs didn't spring up from nowhere. They have been pushed deep into the American psyche by seriously powerful people who have manipulated much of the American public into believing the most ridiculous things, including into believing that...

Left-wing authoritarianism isn't authoritarianism at all, it's all abut "freedom!", and

Their quixotic "wokeness" somehow disturbs the status quo (HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! ... gasp! .... HAhAHAHAHAHA!)

So, to get back to my point about "third rail" politics

When you have a no-holds-barred media, "interagency", deep-pocket, international campaign against someone (in this case, Trump) then you KNOW he has disturbed the status quo greatly!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Saturday, January 15, 2022 4:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:


Slavoj Zizek discusses cancel culture and censorship on Tara Reade’s RT podcast
Many are living in a state of ‘unfreedom’, Zizek said

Slavoj Zizek, the “most dangerous philosopher in the West,” joined Tara Reade on her RT podcast ‘The Politics of Survival’ to discuss the censorship that is currently growing and happening on both sides of the political aisle.

New forms of “de facto censorship” are appearing today, Zizek told Reade during their wide-ranging conversation, and much of it is beginning to come from liberals, who are introducing an “even worse censorship” hidden under the guise of “progressive” politics.

“One word can literally ruin your career,” noted Zizek, the author of ‘Heaven in Disorder’. He and Reade turned to ‘Harry Potter’ actress Emma Watson to prove their point. She received backlash even from the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations after recently posting an image from a pro-Palestine protest.

“Anything you say can be used for whatever purpose,” Zizek said of anti-Semitism accusations thrown at Watson and others, noting that making “abstract” arguments helps in labeling certain views as hateful.
READ MORE: Comedian Ron Placone talks cancel culture on Tara Reade’s RT podcast

Such control and de facto censorship is derived from “unfreedom,” the author declared at one point, noting Julian Assange currently facing numerous charges for simply publishing material that shone a negative light on the US government and others.

“You are free, but you are free within certain coordinates which are tightly controlled and regulated,” he said.



https://www.rt.com/news/546003-tara-rade-cancel-culture/

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Saturday, January 15, 2022 6:01 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:


Maybe there is a mutual misunderstanding. My impression of Australia (you ARE Australian?) is that there is a tight, macho, male-bonded culture that revolves around sports and beer, from which women are excluded; and that women are thought of (by men) as being lesser creatures, somehow.

What is your impression of America? (Don't judge us by the posters here, or by our movies!)




The view of America right now - gun toting idiots who can't distinguish fact and fiction, would prefer to believe the nuttiest conspiracy rather than science, obsessed with their own superiority, ignorant, ill informed aand disinterested about anywhere in the rest of the world. On the brink of civil war.

Maybe it's not useful to think in cliches about either of our nations, but possibly it could be said that we have said both bears some truth. Everything I have said is definitely born out on these boards (eg calling someone else's country backward when you have no idea about that place).

Quote:

Position of privilege? I don't consider almost anyone in the USA to be in a "privileged" position. Some (tall white good looking men,good looking young women) have a bit more advantage than others, but in a system that is fundamentally rapacious you don't fix the problem by jiggering small differences in advantage.

I cant take you seriously when you say things like that. There is enormous priviledge in the US, enormous..... The system is definitely broken but it brings great advantages to many.

A quick google of stats will show who has and who has not. Who owns most of the wealth, who sits on boards, who gets elected compared to who is more likely to be incarcerated, murdered, suffer poor mental health and physical health. It is so obvious it is ludicrous that it can't be acknowledged. There are definite patterns.

Same shit goes down here as well, but to the same degree, not yet anyway although we are heading down the same path to hell - just a bit backwards in getting there.

Quote:


BTW I've seen three fundamentally incompetent women hired and promoted at work bc they were good looking and pleasant. As the only female on the review panel, I argued strenuously against the decisions but was overruled. I've also seen dumpy-looking people who were suspected of being gay shit on by a religious, biased manager. And there is a definite bias against anyone over 55. Bias runs in all directions.



And this proves what exactly? That women are still judged on their appearance and pleasantness? That your workplace has shitty hiring practices?

Quote:

In CA, by the time you parse thru all of the "protected classes" (sex, race, gender, religion age etc etc) there is only ONE "unprotected" group- white, hetero, Xtian, non-aged, males. And they are ... what? Fair game? Shouldn't we All be protected against discrimination and rude behavior?


Boo fucking hoo. Again, look at who owns stuff, who has power. I can't see that Black, Hispanic, Female, Gay are tipping the power balance in the US. It still seems that arsehole white men are running the place.

Quote:

That's not pissing off the status quo, it just pisses off ordinary people who have to listen to all the whining.

The ruling elite have no problem with .. in fact, they take advantage of... the fact that we are dividing ourselves into smaller and smaller competing groups fighting over crumbs of "privilege". If you look at the gap between where we ordinary peons live v the REAL privileged elite, the difference between us peons is miniscule. None of us have any REAL agency over how our economy runs, do we? When was the last time you decided on building a factory in Australia? And isn't all of the fuss, in the end, about money? (Who gets the better job, who lives in a safer neighborhood or- here in the USA- who gets healthcare?) Instead of fighting over crumbs of "privilege", why don't we do away with the elephant in the room?

Obviously, I don't condone discrimination, much less violence, against targeted groups, but can't we just commit to a standard of behavior that applies to everyone, and true meritocracy instead of fucking around like this?

You know my tag line?

"I believe in solving problems, not sharing them"?

Well, I believe in solving the lack of opportunity, for EVERYONE, not in ensuring that we're all equally shat upon... or fighting to make sure that somebody else is shat upon more. All of this "wokeness", as far as I'm concerned, is just a major distracting ploy by the privileged elite to prevent us from addressing the REAL problem.




Applying meritocracy without acknowledging that the playing field aint level to start with just perpetrates power imbalances, so you do have to address that field. And yes, that can feel painful if normally you are one of the ones who have had the advantage, and are blind to that advantage.

There is always a backlash when power dynamics shift.
African Americans can go to the same school as whites - outrage
Women get the vote - the world will collapse
Gays can marry - the institution of marriage will end






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Saturday, January 15, 2022 6:19 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Richest people in the world.

https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/

All men, mainly from the US. A few years back you would have seen only US in the top 15, but world power is changing fast.

NUmber of women Presidents in the history of the US - 0.

But you know, meritocracy etc

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Saturday, January 15, 2022 7:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

SIGNY: In CA, by the time you parse thru all of the "protected classes" (sex, race, gender, religion age etc etc) there is only ONE "unprotected" group- white, hetero, Xtian, non-aged, males. And they are ... what? Fair game? Shouldn't we All be protected against discrimination and rude behavior?

MaGONS: Boo fucking hoo. Again, look at who owns stuff, who has power.

The guys who worked FOR me owned no more than I did, and in many cases, less.

Are you going to make THEM pay because some white guy somewhere, who represents 0.00001% of the population, owns 5% of the world?

THAT'S an incredibly bigoted attitude, MAGONS.
You should know better.


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Richest people in the world.

https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/

All men, mainly from the US. A few years back you would have seen only US in the top 15, but world power is changing fast.

NUmber of women Presidents in the history of the US - 0.

But you know, meritocracy etc



Oh boo fucking hoo.

Saying that the wealthiest people in the world are all (or mostly) men isn't the same as saying that all men are wealthy. That's a BS argument, MAGONS, and you know it.

MOST men are as shat upon as most women. They're also expected to do the hardest most dangerous work- mining, construction, etc simply because men are (mostly) stronger than women Sorry but that's a biological fact. That's why there's such a problem with trans women competing in women's sports.

Anyway, your point is wrong.

You're not looking for equality. You're just looking to take out your resentment on men.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Saturday, January 15, 2022 7:49 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Richest people in the world.

https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/

All men, mainly from the US. A few years back you would have seen only US in the top 15, but world power is changing fast.

NUmber of women Presidents in the history of the US - 0.

But you know, meritocracy etc

what I'm saying is MAKE the playing field level by establishing a meritocracy. Also, provide all of the necessary resources to give everyone an equal start. You seem a bit slow on that point.

That's what Head Start and all of those programs were supposed to do.
But you have to recognize, MAGONS, that just because children are given an equal start, not everyone has an equal chance at getting the premier jobs.

Some people are just ... for example... more musically gifted. Some are socially awkward. Some have ADHD. Others are better at math. Others are delayed across the board. Some are more athletic.

Not everyone can be equally successful everywhere, or even anywhere, even in a true meritocracy. ESPECIALLY in a true meritocracy. Applying job-related standards equally across the board doesn't mean equal outcomes.

The point is to make sure there is a liveable place for everyone. That is why there needs to be a job available at living wages for everyone who can work, even if it means digging ditches or cleaning windows. And support for those who can't make their own way.

Now, as far as how to deal with the ESTABLISHED hierarchy, where (many) of the wealthy had a huge leg up due to inheritance, and others clawed their way up bc of sheer sociopathy... or sometimes a combination of both... well, that's a whole different story.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Saturday, January 15, 2022 8:48 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Richest people in the world.

https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/

All men, mainly from the US. A few years back you would have seen only US in the top 15, but world power is changing fast.

NUmber of women Presidents in the history of the US - 0.

But you know, meritocracy etc

Saying that the wealthiest people in the world are all (or mostly) men isn't the same as saying that all men are wealthy. That's a BS argument, MAGONS, and you know it.

MOST men are as shat upon as most women. They're also expected to do the hardest most dangerous work- mining, construction, etc simply because men are (mostly) stronger than women Sorry but that's a biological fact. That's why there's such a problem with trans women competing in women's sports.

Anyway, your point is wrong.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake




Strawman argument what? Where did I say all men are wealthy. Men clearly hold most power and wealth in the world. That doesn't mean all men are better off than all women. You know that isn't what I am saying.

Men are not just ahead because of biological factors, I call BS on that one. That's been an argument used time and time again in the past to keep women from voting, from having equal pay, from staying employed after marriage, from owning property. The biology card is usually rubbish. How many jobs require that much strength these days, given mining and construction are highly technical jobs? That's not what causes pay and power disparity and you know it.




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Saturday, January 15, 2022 9:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Richest people in the world.

https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/

All men, mainly from the US. A few years back you would have seen only US in the top 15, but world power is changing fast.

NUmber of women Presidents in the history of the US - 0.

But you know, meritocracy etc

SIGNY: Saying that the wealthiest people in the world are all (or mostly) men isn't the same as saying that all men are wealthy. That's a BS argument, MAGONS, and you know it.

MOST men are as shat upon as most women. They're also expected to do the hardest most dangerous work- mining, construction, etc simply because men are (mostly) stronger than women Sorry but that's a biological fact. That's why there's such a problem with trans women competing in women's sports.

Anyway, your point is wrong.

MAGONS: Strawman argument what? Where did I say all men are wealthy. Men clearly hold most power and wealth in the world. That doesn't mean all men are better off than all women. You know that isn't what I am saying.

Men are not just ahead because of biological factors, I call BS on that one.

First of all, I'm not sure that isn't true. Most men have a higher tolerance for risk and confrontation than most women. Most men are more violent than most women, and there are more male sociopaths (7:1) than female. https://www.decision-making-confidence.com/female-sociopaths.html

There are more male autistics than female.(4:1) Average male IQ, while the same as female, shows a much broaded distribution: men are more likely to be either stupider, or smarter, than women.

In an environment that rewards aggression, single-mindedness, smarts, greed and sociopathy, men are more likely to flourish than women because there are more likely to be more men who fit the profile.

Pointing to SOME men, who represent an almost infinitesimally tiny fraction of the world's population, as being somehow indicative of some pervasive force at work, is a flawed argument. You would have to show that MOST men are better off than MOST women in order to show that there is pervasive bias. You haven't shown that.

A study of ultra-wealthy men - the robber barons of old, or today's tech barons, shows that they are extremely distorted people, with little connection to the people around them, single-minded to the point of autistic-like behavior, driven to gaining power and control (money is a marker in "the game", not the goal itself), smarts to see opportunity, usually with SOME leg-up (Bill Gates had his mom's investment $ and her connections to IBM, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg both attended college etc). None of them came from "the hood", but they didn't start out as wealthy, either.

If they were selected for something, it wasn't because they were "men" but because they fit that profile, in an environment that rewarded that behavior.

There are nations... too many ... where women are legally prohibited from owning property. There are nations ... too many ... where women are legally prohibited from inheriting, and legally prohibited from passing on their wealth. There are nations... too many ... where girl-children aren't given an education, where they are owned by their families, and then by their husbands. Where they don't have access to birth control and are hostage to an endless cycle of birthing and childcare. There are nations where women don't have the same formal opportunities as men.

But once those formal disparities are eliminated, and hiring/promotion decisions are made race, sex, age, and gender-blind ... then what you get is what you get. we haven't got to that last part yet.

But I would say that part of the problem is that if sociopathy is rewarded, then there is a dysfunction in society bc it wll eventually destroy itself.


BTW... the reason why Hillary didn't become President isn't bc she was "a woman" but bc IMHO she wanted to take the USA in the wrong direction. Also, she called half of the potential electorate "that basket of deplorables". Who would vote for THAT??


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Saturday, January 15, 2022 10:05 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


You've been brilliant in this thread so far Sigs.



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Saturday, January 15, 2022 11:21 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Mags seems to be really really pissed that after almost 250 years of this experiment of Free Market, Free Enterprise, Freedom and Liberty, the U.S. is the home of so many of the wealthiest commoners. Out of something like 264 nations.


On another note, I recall hearing that, if all African-Americans would group as one, their economy would be the 13th largest in the world. Implying that being born in USA is a huge gift for them, a far greater advantage than 150 other complete nation's - including their "nation of origin" they claim.

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Sunday, January 16, 2022 5:36 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Mags seems to be really really pissed that after almost 250 years of this experiment of Free Market, Free Enterprise, Freedom and Liberty, the U.S. is the home of so many of the wealthiest commoners. Out of something like 264 nations.


On another note, I recall hearing that, if all African-Americans would group as one, their economy would be the 13th largest in the world. Implying that being born in USA is a huge gift for them, a far greater advantage than 150 other complete nation's - including their "nation of origin" they claim.

This is where we part company. The wealthiest people didn't get there by hard work, and they have not contributed to society anywhere near what they've extracted.

Also, your "dindu nuffin'" comments don't help. It's one thing to acknowledge that blacks have a defective subculture. It's another to imply they are genetically/ racially incapable of anything better.




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Sunday, January 16, 2022 6:36 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


The single biggest problem with Black culture is their role models, both male and female. This is exacerbated ten-fold with the high number of black children that grow up in fatherless homes.

Cardi B. and Lebron James are not something anybody should aspire to be.



Then they're taught in school that the system is rigged against them and that they'll never make anything of their lives.

The only options they have at that point are becoming an NBA star, a rap artist or join a local gang. If you're a woman, just have a bunch of babies and live on the government dole for the rest of your life and pass that on to the next generation.




Nevermind the long list of black men and women who rose above that all and made something of themselves. They're just "coons".

Snoop Dogg says so.

--------------------------------------------------

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Sunday, January 16, 2022 6:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Signy, I think you've done a good job pointing out that what people SAY about the US and its opportunity and reward is different than what gets rewarded in reality. And what gets rewarded by far is sociopathic behavior through the tools of financialism, illegal dealings (looking at Microsoft and Bill Gates), and so forth.

And I know you've addressed this next point, but I wanted to highlight it: having a meritocracy isn't enough. Take meritocracy as the only tool to a 'better' society to its logical end. Without adequate economic roles for everyone, if you make the opportunities scarce enough, what a meritocracy gets you is PhD's with big muscles and fast reflexes fighting cage fights for McJobs. Sure, it's a meritocracy. The best wins. But is it what we want?


Anyway, I realized many decades ago that if EVERYONE can't get ahead with hard work, then it's not true that ANYONE can get ahead with hard work. Because, by the nature of scarcity of opportunity, some people - maybe many people, or even most people - will be out of luck getting ahead no matter how hard they work.

And I also realized that discrimination is at least partly the result of scarcity of opportunity. Because if you're overwhelmed with qualified people, then there's no logical way to pick and choose 'which one'. So you can either literally have a random drawing - OR!! you can benefit your family, your friends, your tribe. (IMO the other cause of discrimination is tribalism.)

Also, I want to highlight that IF we want to take advantage of mass or large-scale anything - steel production, auto manufacture, fast-food, trash collection - THEN the economy can't be built on individual enterprises and a surfeit of shade-tree mechanics, yard workers, and home-cooking diners. There needs to be a reliable supply of labor for the repetitive, routine jobs we need done.

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Sunday, January 16, 2022 7:08 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


From the mouth of the New York Times itself... This isn't helping anyone (except for rich, mostly white Democrats).

"Liberal Hypocrisy is Fueling American Inequality. Here's How."



Look at what they've done with the school systems in Crook County, IL.

I grew up there. This is exactly how it goes around Chicago and the suburbs. I have rich cousins who went to those North and West-side schools that look like something out of The Breakfast Club. They're all Liberals today. They have no problem affording it.

"We need to do something, but not with my tax dollars and certainly not in my backyard".

I honestly can't believe the NYT has this video up on their official page.

--------------------------------------------------

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Monday, January 17, 2022 3:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


The only point I disagree with is the cause of high housing prices in CA: It's not a supply-demand issue. If it was, then prices would go up like the population: a steady increase.

Instead, prices pentupled from about 1975 to 1980, then dropped to half, then (after a long stagnation) shot up X3, then dropped again to half, then rose again to somewhat more than their previous maximum, where they are today. But it's not as if people were sloshing in and out of CA rapidly, or housing starts jumped and then houses were destroyed in the interim!

It's all due to low interest rates and speculation: Not surprising, since Dems are joined at the hip with the Fed (as are some Repubs). So it's not a problem you can build or re-zone your way out of, since any new houses of ANY size will quickly rise to stratosphereic heights as long as there are speculators with cheap cash ready to buy up houses and then rent them out. And unless you happened to get in on the botom of the escalator early, homw ownership will be forever out of reach. The only way to end that is to raise interst rates for everyone excpet first-time home buyers. But EVerYONE has an interest in high RE prices, from cities (which raise taxes based on valuation) to curent homewoners to specuators and rental-unti owners.

Homelessness is not caused by high housing prices, most of the homeless are addicts of one sort or another who migrate to the west bc of moderate weather. 30% of the homeless are from out-of-state.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Monday, January 17, 2022 8:48 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Don't focus too much on just one thing though.

The zoning is a problem. My brother worked in San Diego for a few years and though he was making great money out there, the rent was sick. He got himself into a tiny "apartment" that was somebody's attic and it was $2,500 per month, and that was a good price.

Rent is certainly based off of a supply/demand issue, particularly in large cities like this. And the zoning that they talk about in the video makes sure that affordable rent that is a reasonable distance from a person's place of work is not within reach because there's not nearly enough rental properties to accommodate them, while there are an overabundance of multi-million dollar houses that the could never afford. Most people there aren't going to be making what my brother did either.



I can't even really argue with the people who are charged with the zoning. I've watched neighborhood after neighborhood that I grew up in and around turn into dangerous shitholes over the decades. That's what happens when you make things cheap.

I just appreciate NYT pointing out the hypocrisy of rich, white Liberals.

The ones who virtue signal all day long about equality while the rest of our neighborhoods fall to shit aren't letting any of that happen in their own neighborhoods.



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Monday, January 17, 2022 3:07 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Anybody can call themselves anything.

Even Trump got to call himself a republican and get on debate stages with other 'real' republicans, while the 'real' republicans rolled their eyes at his presence. (And that was true until he mopped the floor with them and got to be a 'republican' president. And then the 'real' republicans decided he was a republican, and that they were his brand of republican, too. Trump changed the party.)

Rich people who only want to stay rich and get even more rich can call themselves democrats*. Even Pelosi can call herself a democrat*. Even former president Clinton could call himself a democrat*.

BTW I think Clinton was where the real change in the democratic* party accelerated. Democrats* changed from being anti-war to being neo-cons in democratic* drag (Yugoslavian War) from being pro-little guy to blowing corporations for money (NAFTA, gutting Glass-Steagal, far too many examples to list here), and so on. The transformation was complete when democrats* decided to pursue 'demographics' and the spin-the-wheel-discriminated-against-sub-population-of-the-hour. Not that there isn't discrimination. But its basis is economic (and tribal). And democrats* aren't about to even stare too long at the power structure, as Signy pointed out.

Blaming democrats* for the oligarchy is like blaming the tide tables for the tides.

Anyway, this whole 'woke' thing is completely manufactured, imo. And anybody who spends a lot of time on it, either for or against, is being decoyed from the real problem, which is economic.

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Tuesday, January 18, 2022 7:40 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Don't focus too much on just one thing though.

The zoning is a problem. My brother worked in San Diego for a few years and though he was making great money out there, the rent was sick. He got himself into a tiny "apartment" that was somebody's attic and it was $2,500 per month, and that was a good price.

Rent is certainly based off of a supply/demand issue, particularly in large cities like this. And the zoning that they talk about in the video makes sure that affordable rent that is a reasonable distance from a person's place of work is not within reach because there's not nearly enough rental properties to accommodate them, while there are an overabundance of multi-million dollar houses that the could never afford. Most people there aren't going to be making what my brother did either.



I can't even really argue with the people who are charged with the zoning. I've watched neighborhood after neighborhood that I grew up in and around turn into dangerous shitholes over the decades. That's what happens when you make things cheap.

I just appreciate NYT pointing out the hypocrisy of rich, white Liberals.

The ones who virtue signal all day long about equality while the rest of our neighborhoods fall to shit aren't letting any of that happen in their own neighborhoods.



--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."



Nah. Zoning not an issue, and neither is supply. At least, not the ONLY issues.

You can use both to "explain" why housing costs are so high, but neither explanation works for why housing prices FELL, so far, so fast in SoCal. If you want housing prices to fall, you need to look at why they FELL so dramatically. HINT: it's not bc the supply of new houses suddenly expanded, or because zoning changed.

The NYT's "analysis" is one-sided and therefore misleading.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Wednesday, January 19, 2022 7:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


NYT analysis is always one-sided and misleading. This is not a surprise.

What IS a surprise about that video is that they're calling out Liberals for the problem.


Zoning is an issue. There should be more apartments available in large cities, but the homeowners know that this will reduce the value of their homes so it doesn't happen.



You're doing it right now. The difference is that you're not a hypocritical Leftist douchebag on twitter constantly virtue signalling for one thing while doing the exact opposite in real life.

--------------------------------------------------

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Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:48 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


My fair city has a TON of apartments, and the percent of land (percent of each lot) that can be "built" is higher here (0.6) than the next-highest comparable city (0.45). I know because I attended several planning/zoning meetings, mostly concerned with McMansions and lot-splitting. But the prices here are actually higher per square foot than comparable cities.

Part of that is that we have our own city police, instead of contracting with the county sheriffs, we pay a lot in taxes but our city is very safe. Also, the schools are Ok. Not top-tier, but not bad.

Again, I think if you want to know why prices are so high, you have to look at why prices dropped IN HALF, once in 1997 and again around 2008. That's no small drop! I know from experience. The house that we bought in 1994 tripled in price by 2007, and dropped to half of that price in 2008.

In downtown LA, where prices are incredibly expensive, MANY of the dwellings are apartments... huge complexes, fairly new. Single family homes make up only 35% of dwellings in Los Angeles proper.

If you want RE prices to fall, you hve to figure out what happened. HINT: It wasn't because there was a glut of new constuction, or half of the people suddenly left CA!

Looking at RE prices is like looking at stock prices: prices go up when money flows in that direction, and money flows in that direction when banks are lending in tht direction. So you can get very "sectoral" inflation... RE prices can skyrocket without food and fuel (for example) rising along with it.

Homes here aren't just "places to live", they are an INVESTMENT. Banks lend, and people buy, with the expectaton that prices will go up and it can turn into quite a speculative frenzy. At one time, 30% of homes changed hands in any two years.

So it's really NOT just "supply/demand" or zoning.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Thursday, January 20, 2022 2:11 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Well, yeah. Fake money does that.

We've had that problem since Bill Clinton was in office.


All the bubbles originated with Slick Willie. You're never putting that genie back in the bottle now.

--------------------------------------------------

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