REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Ocasio-Cortez, the Democratic Socialists, and end to Capitalism

POSTED BY: 6IXSTRINGJACK
UPDATED: Thursday, December 13, 2018 06:57
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Saturday, December 1, 2018 2:44 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Instead of looking at a dumb little wish list that Fox News puts out about her, I thought I'd do a little digging and see what this is all about. At the end of this, I expect G to say whether or not he still is in support of her.

Question #1: Is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez a member of the Democratic Socialists of America?

Yes, according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria_Ocasio-Cortez

Quote:

On June 26, 2018, Ocasio-Cortez won the Democratic primary in New York's 14th congressional district covering parts of the Bronx and Queens in New York City, defeating the incumbent Congressman, Democratic Caucus Chair Joe Crowley, in what was described as the biggest upset victory in the 2018 midterm election primaries.[12] Ocasio-Cortez is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America.


Question #2: What is the Mission Statement of The Democratic Socialists of America?

From their own "About" page: https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/

Quote:



The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is the largest socialist organization in the United States. DSA’s members are building progressive movements for social change while establishing an openly democratic socialist presence in American communities and politics.

At the root of our socialism is a profound commitment to democracy, as means and end. As we are unlikely to see an immediate end to capitalism tomorrow, DSA fights for reforms today that will weaken the power of corporations and increase the power of working people. For example, we support reforms that:

decrease the influence of money in politics
empower ordinary people in workplaces and the economy
restructure gender and cultural relationships to be more equitable.

We are activists committed to democracy as not simply one of our political values but our means of restructuring society. Our vision is of a society in which people have a real voice in the choices and relationships that affect the entirety of our lives. We call this vision democratic socialism — a vision of a more free, democratic and humane society.

We are socialists because we reject an international economic order sustained by private profit, alienated labor, race and gender discrimination, environmental destruction, and brutality and violence in defense of the status quo.

We are socialists because we share a vision of a humane international social order based both on democratic planning and market mechanisms to achieve equitable distribution of resources, meaningful work, a healthy environment, sustainable growth, gender and racial equality, and non-oppressive relationships.

DSA has a youth section, Young Democratic Socialists of America (YDSA). Made up of students from colleges and high schools, the YDSA works on economic justice and democracy and prison justice projects. It is a member of the International Union of Socialist Youth, an affiliate of the Socialist International. YDSA meets several times during the year.

Please join DSA as we work to help build a better and more just world for all.




That all sounds really nice. But if you look past the flowery language and read what I underlined, their explicit desire is an end to Capitalism.



Question #3: Are the Democratic Socialsts of America for open borders?

They had a page on that, but it seems to have been taken down: https://www.dsausa.org/socialists_and_immigration_dl

Archive.org to the rescue...

https://web.archive.org/web/20180713190506/https://www.dsausa.org/soci
alists_and_immigration_dl


Quote:

By Duane Campbell

In spite of the economic boom for the wealthy, working people in the U.S. have yet to receive a significant improvement in their standard of living for over 30 years. At the same time, democratic forces are once again confronted with anti-immigrant campaigns- this time fostered and promoted by a president of the U.S.

As socialists, we stand with and among the U.S. working class in opposition to the rule of the transnational corporations and their exploitation of the economy and their despoliation of our lives, our society and our environment.

We are currently experiencing a major restructuring of the global economy directed by the transnational corporations to produce profits for their corporate owners. The impoverishment of the vast majority of people in pursuit of profits for a small minority has pushed millions to migrate in search of food, jobs, and security. Global capitalism produces global migration. Along with wars NAFTA and other “Free Trade” deals each produce a new waves of migration.

Socialists support the rights of working people to organize, to form unions, and to protect their rights and to advance their interests. Unions have always been an important part of how socialists seek to make our economic justice principles come alive. Working people - gathered together and exploited in the capitalist workplace-are well positioned to fight their common exploitation.

Current immigration laws and practices, imposed upon us all by the corporations and their control of our government, often prevent working class unity by dividing workers against each other and by creating categories of workers with few rights to organize and thus to protect their own interests.

The neoliberal capitalist economic system now being created by the relentless merging of the world's markets also impoverishes the majority of U.S. workers. The average U.S. worker has experienced a decline in their real wages since 1979. Quality industrial jobs have moved to low-wage, anti-union areas in the U.S. and to Mexico, China, Singapore, Vietnam, India and other nations. At present the U.S. has no significant controls on capital flight. Indeed, the U.S. government subsidizes some corporations to move jobs to Honduras, El Salvador, and the Caribbean.

The economic restructuring of Asia, Africa, and Latin America has pushed millions to migrate to the U.S. and Europe in search of a decent standard of living. In the two decades leading up to 2008, the U.S. experienced a major increase in immigration matching the immigration influx to the U.S. of the period from 1890-1910. The large-scale immigration was largely from Asia and Latin America. It has changed the ethnic and cultural makeup of the labor force and the working class in many states and urban areas.

At the same time, in both Europe and the U.S., among others, we see an intensification of narrow economic nationalism and the blaming of immigrants for the economic troubles of capitalism.

U.S. economic policy (called neoliberal capitalism) promotes the movement of capital and goods across borders to increase profits while at the same time it increases barriers to worker mobility . Since 2004 there has been a militarization of the U.S.-Mexican border, a proposal to build a wall, and the significant increase in in arrests and internal enforcement threatening immigrant labor. The result is a situation in which workers on both sides of this border and around the world have been disempowered and impoverished.

In the current climate the economic forces of global corporate capitalism (neoliberal capitalism) are unrestrained. Corporations encourage the movement of capital, and thus jobs, to low-wage areas. When workers attempt to exercise their power against these conditions via forming unions and organizing to withhold labor, their efforts are easily undermined by repression and the ever-looming threat of factories moving overseas. Labor unions and even local governments lose their power to hold capital accountable and all workers are forced to accept ever-worsening wages and working conditions.

Current border enforcement makes exploitation possible by dividing the global working class into competing sectors and thus inhibiting the possibility of building a united working class movement.

As socialists, as internationalists, we know that rather than building walls and more prisons, what would really help workers to raise wages and improve living conditions is much stricter enforcement of worker protection and anti-discrimination laws, including the right to form democratic unions.

Contrary to the Trump Administration narrative, immigrants create new jobs in the U.S. by buying homes, spending their income and paying taxes. A legal flow of immigrants based upon workforce demand will strengthen the U.S. economy by keeping productivity high and countering the negative impacts of the aging of the U.S. population.

Threats by employers who use immigration status to keep workers from organizing unions or protesting illegal conditions should be a crime. When there's no punishment for violating labor rights, workers have no rights. We should prohibit immigration enforcement during labor disputes or against workers who complain about illegal conditions.

The problem with our economy is not immigration; the problem is our broken immigration laws that allow business to exploit workers who lack legal status, driving down wages for all workers. If all immigrants were allowed to participate in our system, pay their dues, and become citizens, we could block the corporations’ exploitation and eliminate the two-tiered workforce while building a united labor movement that raises wages and living standards for all workers.

In the end, we need an immigration policy that brings people together instead of pitting workers against each other. We need an immigration policy that benefits migrants, their home communities, and working people here in the U.S. And we need a national policy that limits U.S. military and economic interventions in other parts of the world.

As socialists we support reforms that would grant immediate permanent resident status to all current undocumented workers and their children and that would establish an expeditious and non punitive route to citizenship for these workers and their families.

As socialists, we struggle for a system that produces security, not insecurity. We need a commitment to equality and equal status for all. We need to make it easier for workers to organize and protect themselves through unions. All workers must have full labor rights, including the right to organize, the right to protest unjust labor conditions, the right to change employers, and the right to form unions of their choice. We will work with immigrant rights organizations to promote family reunification, to halt deportations, to demilitarize our borders, and to help all of our children- regardless of legal status- to realize the dream of attaining a university education.

Duane Campbell is a professor emeritus of bilingual multicultural education at California State University Sacramento, a union activist, and former chair of Sacramento DSA. He is the Director of the Mexican American Digital History project. He is also the co-chair of DSA’s Immigrants’ Rights Committee. The committee can be found on the DSA website.



I have to admit that I do agree with some of the rhetoric here, but the underlying theme seems to be that we need to have complete open borders and bring everybody down to the bottom of the barrel so nobody can be exploited more than anybody else since we're all at the bottom. This does not sound like an ideal solution, particularly to first world countries who have everything to lose.

It's unknown for sure at this time if this is something that the DSA still endorses since they took it down off their website. Though I personally believe the only reason it's not up anymore is because in the wake of Cortez being elected they were afraid of getting bad press over this, I will give them the benefit of the doubt for now until I see her or other DSA members who were elected in the mid-terms speak on the issue.





Also of note...

It has been said that the Democratic Socialists are NOT fans of the Democratic party in America, and that they are piggybacking off them right now until their numbers in government seats are great enough to matter and start making some changes.

This article that they took down seems to give credence to that notion. The first sentence of the 6th paragraph reads as follows:

Quote:

The neoliberal capitalist economic system now being created by the relentless merging of the world's markets also impoverishes the majority of U.S. workers.


It would seem that the DSA is no more a fan of the Nancy Pelosis and the Hillary Clintons and other NeoLiberals than I am, although I suspect it's for very different reasons.

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Saturday, December 1, 2018 7:21 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


They proclaim that the U.S. Economic Policy is "NeoLiberal Capitalism" in their spew.

Are they unique in this regard, or do others likewise define these terms?

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Saturday, December 1, 2018 8:20 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Hmmm... I'm not sure it's fair to judge Ocasio-Cortez on a "platform" that wasn't hers. That's like judging Trump because of Adelson, or Obama on his (presumed) affiliation with Jeremiah Wright.

But I have a couple of things to say about this topic anyway:

1) "Capitalism" is ALREADY dead. Capitalism depends on competition, and since the biggest companies have gobbled up most of the medium-sized companies that are worth having, what we have is sheer out-and-out monopolism. Tsk tsk. As socialists, they should at least be familiar with what Marx and Lenin said on the topic, which was that the direction of capitalism is always towards monopolism since the big gobble up the small.

2) What the Democratic Socialists of America appear to be are "Trotskyists". What that mean is that they're committed to globalism in their own way... a globalist worker's revolution. Frankly, I think it's a stupid and dangerous pipe dream because it promotes the development of globalist elites ... transnational corporations, banking cartels and the like ... with the idea that "the people" will eventually revolt against the globalists.

But "the people" would have no hope of ever controlling, much less revolting against such a worldwide power. I decided several years ago that the best way to promote freedom was by DEcentralization .... breaking down the controlling entities from transnationals to nations, and from nations to regions. Devolving authority as low as it can go while still solving the problems that need to be solved. (For example, don't expect "the state" to tell people how to raise their children in every particular.)

3) The people who believe in infiltrating a political organization and slowly taking it over are called "Pabloites". It's a pretty well-known and often-discussed tactic in leftist circles. My leftist friends practically spit and rinse their mouths out after using the word; they think it's an underhanded tactic.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Saturday, December 1, 2018 9:18 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Hmmm... I'm not sure it's fair to judge Ocasio-Cortez on a "platform" that wasn't hers. That's like judging Trump because of Adelson, or Obama on his (presumed) affiliation with Jeremiah Wright.



I'm not sure what you mean here. She's loud about being a Democratic Socialist. Did she not read the mission statement before signing up?

Quote:

But I have a couple of things to say about this topic anyway:

1) "Capitalism" is ALREADY dead. Capitalism depends on competition, and since the biggest companies have gobbled up most of the medium-sized companies that are worth having, what we have is sheer out-and-out monopolism. Tsk tsk. As socialists, they should at least be familiar with what Marx and Lenin said on the topic, which was that the direction of capitalism is always towards monopolism since the big gobble up the small.



That's a bit hyperbolic. It's not dead... yet. It is still somewhat possible to get ahead in the world, or at least get by without being on the government dole. Capitalism definitely isn't what it once was though. I like Jimmy Dore's take on it and how he calls our current system "Predatory Capitalism". At least for now I'll take it over flat out Socialism, although I fear that the end result will be fairly similar either way.

Quote:

2) What the Democratic Socialists of America appear to be are "Trotskyists". What that mean is that they're committed to globalism in their own way... a globalist worker's revolution. Frankly, I think it's a stupid and dangerous pipe dream because it promotes the development of globalist elites ... transnational corporations, banking cartels and the like ... with the idea that "the people" will eventually revolt against the globalists.


I'm not really interested in any of their opinions on Globalism. I will actively fight against anybody who is for it.

Quote:

But "the people" would have no hope of ever controlling, much less revolting against such a worldwide power. I decided several years ago that the best way to promote freedom was by DEcentralization .... breaking down the controlling entities from transnationals to nations, and from nations to regions. Devolving authority as low as it can go while still solving the problems that need to be solved. (For example, don't expect "the state" to tell people how to raise their children in every particular.)


Agreed.

Quote:

3) The people who believe in infiltrating a political organization and slowly taking it over are called "Pabloites". It's a pretty well-known and often-discussed tactic in leftist circles. My leftist friends practically spit and rinse their mouths out after using the word; they think it's an underhanded tactic.


This was actually a common tactic in the mid-terms. Cortez just happens to be the only one you heard about that succeeded.

The idea behind the movement for these midterms was to run them in primaries against Democrats that weren't very popular themselves, but in districts that are Hard Blue. Since voter turnout for midterm primaries is usually very low, they would be able to win a bunch of them by drumming up support from the ultra-left, and then they would have an easy time winning the General elections since most of the Democrats in these areas wouldn't pay attention to their platforms and would just vote along their party lines.

In the case of Cortez: https://nypost.com/2018/06/28/most-voters-stayed-home-for-stunning-ale
xandria-ocasio-cortez-win
/

Quote:

Only about 13 percent of registered Democrats turned out to vote in the 14th Congressional District that takes in parts of Queens and the Bronx, according to a preliminary city Board of Elections tally.

There are 214,750 active registered Democratic voters in the district. Only 27,744 voted, and Ocasio-Cortez won by more than 4,000 votes.





I'm having a hard time finding an article I saw in a video about the topic that I'll have to try to dig up. There were somewhere around 90 Democratic Socialists that ran in the midterms. Most of them lost, but if memory serves around 20 of them won. They are a minority at this point, but that will probably change if the media doesn't make a bigger issue about it.

Had all 90 of them won and started work next year, what do you think the chances that Nancy Pelosi would be the speaker of the house next year be?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, December 2, 2018 5:49 PM

THG


Ocasio-Cortez, the Democratic Socialists, and end to Capitalism

POSTED BY: 6IXSTRINGJACK


Wow you republicans sure are afraid of women. Oh my god, here comes one now, RUN!!!



T



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Sunday, December 2, 2018 11:41 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


This is her platform. I took out all the explanations but left the headers to give an overall view of the platform. You can go to the website for details.

https://ocasio2018.com/issues

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Platform

Medicare For All
Housing As a Human Right
A Peace Economy
A Federal Jobs Guarantee
Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban
Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons
Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE
Solidarity with Puerto Rico
Mobilizing Against Climate Change
Clean Campaign Finance
Higher Education / Trade School for All
Women's Rights
Support LGBTQIA+
Support Seniors
Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall

It looks like FOX got it (mostly) right (they left off 'a peace economy'). A discussion was started here:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=62808


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Monday, December 3, 2018 12:27 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I'm not interested in what her page says. I'm well aware of what it said. I was part of the discussion that you linked, and I believe you knew that before you made this post, Kiki.

The point here is that the Democratic Socialists of America are much different than the Social Democrats.

Any of the "Bernie Bros" who voted for her thinking that they were the same thing have an IQ in the single digits.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, December 3, 2018 2:00 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
They proclaim that the U.S. Economic Policy is "NeoLiberal Capitalism" in their spew.

Are they unique in this regard, or do others likewise define these terms?



I've actually never heard it called this before. I think it's pretty telling of the DSA and their dislike for the Democratic party as a whole that they would.

I consider our current economic policy as a mix of NeoCon/NeoLib Capitalism, or Predatory Capitalism.

I get the sense that the one thing I can agree with the DSA about is that I don't trust either party much and there really is little difference between the two of them when you scratch beneath the surface.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, December 3, 2018 2:03 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Wow you republicans sure are afraid of women. Oh my god, here comes one now, RUN!!!



Since you're the only Lefty here that has decided to make a response, albeit a very stupid one, do you have anything worthwhile to add?

Nobody has said anything about women here in general, other than referring to specific women by name or using their gender pronouns.



Should we consider your above response as an endorsement for the DSA and what they stand for, or would you like to actually read their mission statement and give an adult opinion about it?




EDITED TO ADD:

It should also be noted that the most troubling writing the DSA had on their site (which has subsequently been taken down and can only now be found on archive.org) was written by one Duane Campbell.

Last time I checked, Duane is a man's name. Although... I guess I shouldn't be so quick to assume somebody's gender based off of their name in 2018.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, December 3, 2018 3:23 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm not interested in what her page says.

Well, you started out with this:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Instead of looking at a dumb little wish list that Fox News puts out about her
But FOX's list is, apparently, her list. The one she put her name on and presumably endorses. So, it's not FOX's dumb little list, it's her dumb little list.
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm well aware of what it said. I was part of the discussion that you linked, and I believe you knew that before you made this post, Kiki.

Last I knew of the previous discussion, there was uncertainty if this wish list was hers, or FOX's. It turns out, it's nearly her entire list.
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
The point here is that the Democratic Socialists of America are much different than the Social Democrats.
Any of the "Bernie Bros" who voted for her thinking that they were the same thing have an IQ in the single digits.

Not sure what your point is. Due to the paltry turnout I expect her to wash out in the next election when there's more attention. In the meantime, is your point that the DSA played a dirty trick by running people as democrats something something with a confusing name?

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Monday, December 3, 2018 3:29 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


It is a dumb little list.

I think the writings on the DSA website regarding immigration and borders will clear up some of the questions you had about it.

She IS a DSA member, and her dumb little list is watered down so most people who voted for her would not see what she really thinks.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, December 3, 2018 4:35 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SIX, I tried looking up whether Ocasio-Cortez is REALLY a member of DSAUSA. Except for the mention in Wikipedia, which goes back to an article in VOX, which flatly states that she is with no evidence at all ... there is no record of her being a member. the DSAUSA "supports" her, but she can't control who supports her. https://www.dsausa.org/weekly/op-ed-we-stand-with-alexandria-ocasio-co
rtez
/

So .... ?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Monday, December 3, 2018 4:53 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SIX, I tried looking up whether Ocasio-Cortez is REALLY a member of DSAUSA. Except for the mention in Wikipedia, which goes back to an article in VOX, which flatly states that she is with no evidence at all ... there is no record of her being a member. the DSAUSA "supports" her, but she can't control who supports her. https://www.dsausa.org/weekly/op-ed-we-stand-with-alexandria-ocasio-co
rtez
/

So .... ?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .



I can't find any evidence that she's a literal card carrying member, as in there isn't an image of a DSA card with her picture on it.

I've never seen her claim she wasn't though.

I can, however, give you an arguably better source than Vox though:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/27/nyregion/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-b
io-profile.html


Quote:

Ms. Ocasio-Cortez, whose résumé up to now included waitress, children’s-book publisher, community activist, member of the Democratic Socialists of America and former Bernie Sanders campaign organizer, was now something else: an instant political rock star. She stunned the Democratic establishment by beating one of the senior leaders in the House, Joseph Crowley, in a near-landslide in Tuesday’s primary.


And a quote of hers about Democratic Socialism on the Colbert show:

https://www.bustle.com/p/what-do-democratic-socialists-believe-alexand
ria-ocasio-cortez-sums-it-up-in-her-own-words-9659030


Quote:

Ocasio-Cortez explained her take on democratic socialism during an interview with Stephen Colbert on June 29. Ocasio-Cortez emphasized that, for her, democratic socialism means ensuring that everyone's fundamental rights and needs are met and respected. As the congressional candidate described:

For me, democratic socialism is about ... I believe that in a modern, moral, and wealthy society, no person in America should be too poor to live ... Seems pretty simple. So what that means to me is health care as a human right. It means that every child no matter where you are born should have access to a college or trade school education if they so choose it. I think that no person should be homeless, if we can have public structures and public policies to allow for people to have homes and food and lead a dignified life in the United States.




I dunno. Maybe it's all fake news. But since every single article I've ever seen written about her claims that she's a Democratic Socialist and/or a member of the DSA in particular, maybe she should find some time in between trying to scrounge up rent for her new D.C. apartment to set the record straight on that if she isn't.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, December 3, 2018 12:11 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It's the same claim as in Vox. There is no reference as to where that info came from. I did several searches which didn't turn up anything solid ... of course, since google is kinking it's search results for political purposes, THAT doesn't mean anything either.

I'm sure that the DSAUSA has a list of official members. Equally sure that if Ocasio-Cortez was on it, the DSAUSA would never tell us! But it's one thing to call yourself a socialist democrat which may simply be a way to differentiate yourself from "liberal Democrat" for the voter, another to be a member of the "Democratic Socialist of America" which has a very specific agenda.

So altogether, not willing to tag Ocasio-Cortez with someone else's platform. However, I'm certainly willing to discuss what the DSAUSA wants, and Ocasio-Cortez' platform independently. And what Ocasio Cortez says she wants IS "creeping socialism" and WOULD lead to the destruction of capitalism, as far as it still exists.

So later on I'll be going back to the thread with Ocasio-Cotez' wishlist to discuss its implications for capitalism.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Monday, December 3, 2018 12:37 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It's the same claim as in Vox. There is no reference as to where that info came from. I did several searches which didn't turn up anything solid ... of course, since google is kinking it's search results for political purposes, THAT doesn't mean anything either.

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

There are alternatives to google.
www.bing.com
https://search.yahoo.com/
https://duckduckgo.com/
www.dogpile.com/
www.lycos.com/
www.metacrawler.com/

Are you getting the idea?

What is the difference between a social democrat and a democratic socialist?



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, December 3, 2018 12:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


What's the difference between National Socialism and Socialist Nationalism?




tic tac

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Monday, December 3, 2018 1:05 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
What's the difference between National Socialism and Socialist Nationalism?

tic tac

Same as the difference between Hitler and Stalin. Or Nationalsozialismus and Kommunizm.

www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/03/bernie-sanders-democ
ratic-socialism/471630
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, December 3, 2018 1:24 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I dunno. Maybe it's all fake news. But since every single article I've ever seen written about her claims that she's a Democratic Socialist and/or a member of the DSA in particular, maybe she should find some time in between trying to scrounge up rent for her new D.C. apartment to set the record straight on that if she isn't.

One thing she is no good at is numbers. Forty months ago when Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign was more of a curiosity than an influential political movement, vagueness on paying for Medicare-for-all was harmless. The name of the game was to build political support for an idea that had little support and sort the details out later.

What’s striking, however, is that essentially no progress has been made on sorting out the details. That’s why you have one of the country’s highest-profile Medicare-for-all proponents, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, tweeting misinformation about potential pay-fors: She doesn’t have a specific canonical proposal she can point to as reflecting what she’s working toward.

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/3/18122947/pentagon-accounting
-error-medicare-for-all


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, December 3, 2018 1:53 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
What's the difference between National Socialism and Socialist Nationalism?

Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Same as the difference between Hitler and Stalin. Or Nationalsozialismus and Kommunizm.

Yeah, it's so confusing - but useful! If you throw enough similar-sounding names around long enough, you can have people believing Swedes are communistic Nazis!




tic tac

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Monday, December 3, 2018 2:27 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Jeepers Creepers...

I think Second might actually not be a fan of Ocasio-Cortez. *gasp!*

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, December 3, 2018 2:51 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Too threatening to the tax breaks? And remember, SECOND had a similar dislike of Bernie. Yup, SECOND was and is a Hillary fan all the way. After all, she's a safe, bought-and-paid-for status quo non-republican, who threads through that tortuous path of all the people SECOND hates.

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Monday, December 3, 2018 3:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Okay, I found a "horse's mouth" statement from DSAUSA regarding Ocasio-Cortez' membership:

Quote:

Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez just made history.

Against all odds, she soundly defeated a ten-term incumbent — the heir apparent to House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi — to win the Democratic Party nomination in New York’s 14th congressional district primary. If elected to Congress this fall, she will become the first Latina to represent this working class, majority-minority district that spans parts of the Bronx and Queens.

This isn’t just a victory for New Yorkers. It is a victory for basic principles of freedom and justice at a time when our political misleaders have given up on them. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will continue the political revolution by fighting every day for the many, not the few, in Congress.



https://www.dsausa.org/weekly/npc_statement_ocasio-cortez/

So apparently she IS a member. It was dogpile that found this. I'll be adding it to my list of useful search engines.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Monday, December 3, 2018 3:38 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Nice find.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, December 3, 2018 3:40 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Too threatening to the tax breaks? And remember, SECOND had a similar dislike of Bernie. Yup, SECOND was and is a Hillary fan all the way. After all, she's a safe, bought-and-paid-for status quo non-republican, who threads through that tortuous path of all the people SECOND hates.



The DSA would probably call him a NeoLiberal Capitalist.




At any rate, that looks like she's 1 for 2 with the Lefties on the board. I wonder if T's going to come back in and call Second a misogynist now?

Where's G and SGG?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, December 3, 2018 6:08 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Okay, I found a "horse's mouth" statement from DSAUSA regarding Ocasio-Cortez' membership:

Quote:

Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez just made history.

Against all odds, she soundly defeated a ten-term incumbent — the heir apparent to House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi — to win the Democratic Party nomination in New York’s 14th congressional district primary. If elected to Congress this fall, she will become the first Latina to represent this working class, majority-minority district that spans parts of the Bronx and Queens.

This isn’t just a victory for New Yorkers. It is a victory for basic principles of freedom and justice at a time when our political misleaders have given up on them. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will continue the political revolution by fighting every day for the many, not the few, in Congress.



https://www.dsausa.org/weekly/npc_statement_ocasio-cortez/

So apparently she IS a member. It was dogpile that found this. I'll be adding it to my list of useful search engines.

Is AO-C a Non Player Character in the DSA game?

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Tuesday, December 4, 2018 3:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Nice find.

Looks like I'll have to read the DSAUSA mission statement (or whatever the heck they call it) which seems like a pretty tortured document. I scanned thru it, and my mind did a few of those needle-sliding-off-a-vinyl record noises and few times because it seemed to me that they followed one statement with something its immediate opposite. (A "We're for freedom so we want the transnationals to be bigger" kind of thing. I'm sure it was just a misunderstanding on my part.)


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Tuesday, December 4, 2018 3:40 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is the largest socialist organization in the United States. DSA’s members are building progressive movements for social change while establishing an openly democratic socialist presence in American communities and politics.
Democracy is a political system and socialism is an economic system. Since the two aren't in conflict, it's possible to have democratic socialism just as you can have tyrannical capitalism (which some might interpret as "fascism").

People like THUGR tend to conflate the two.

Quote:

At the root of our socialism is a profound commitment to democracy, as means and end. As we are unlikely to see an immediate end to capitalism tomorrow, DSA fights for reforms today that will weaken the power of corporations and increase the power of working people. For example, we support reforms that:

decrease the influence of money in politics
empower ordinary people in workplaces and the economy
restructure gender and cultural relationships to be more equitable.



blah blah blah ...

Quote:

We are activists committed to democracy as not simply one of our political values but our means of restructuring society. Our vision is of a society in which people have a real voice in the choices and relationships that affect the entirety of our lives. We call this vision democratic socialism — a vision of a more free, democratic and humane society.

We are socialists because we reject an international economic order sustained by private profit, alienated labor, race and gender discrimination, environmental destruction, and brutality and violence in defense of the status quo.

OK ...

Quote:

We are socialists because we share a vision of a humane international social order based both on democratic planning and market mechanisms
What does THIS mean? I've heard much, much better explanations from the LaRouche libertarian party. This is just a junior-high wishlist
Quote:

to achieve equitable distribution of resources, meaningful work, a healthy environment, sustainable growth, gender and racial equality, and non-oppressive relationships.

DSA has a youth section, Young Democratic Socialists of America (YDSA). Made up of students from colleges and high schools, the YDSA works on economic justice and democracy and prison justice projects. It is a member of the International Union of Socialist Youth, an affiliate of the Socialist International. YDSA meets several times during the year.

Please join DSA as we work to help build a better and more just world for all.

Nothing of real content there. Just a lot of blah-blah-blah.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Tuesday, December 4, 2018 12:04 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

The Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is the largest socialist organization in the United States. DSA’s members are building progressive movements for social change while establishing an openly democratic socialist presence in American communities and politics.
Democracy is a political system and socialism is an economic system. Since the two aren't in conflict, it's possible to have democratic socialism just as you can have tyrannical capitalism.

Quote:

At the root of our socialism is a profound commitment to democracy, as means and end. As we are unlikely to see an immediate end to capitalism tomorrow, DSA fights for reforms today that will weaken the power of corporations and increase the power of working people. For example, we support reforms that:

decrease the influence of money in politics
empower ordinary people in workplaces and the economy
restructure gender and cultural relationships to be more equitable.



blah blah blah ...

Quote:

We are activists committed to democracy as not simply one of our political values but our means of restructuring society. Our vision is of a society in which people have a real voice in the choices and relationships that affect the entirety of our lives. We call this vision democratic socialism — a vision of a more free, democratic and humane society.

We are socialists because we reject an international economic order sustained by private profit, alienated labor, race and gender discrimination, environmental destruction, and brutality and violence in defense of the status quo. OK ...


Quote:

We are socialists because we share a vision of a humane international social order based both on democratic planning and market mechanisms
What does THIS mean? I've heard much, much better explanations from the LaRouche libertarian party. This is just a junior-high wishlist
Quote:

to achieve equitable distribution of resources, meaningful work, a healthy environment, sustainable growth, gender and racial equality, and non-oppressive relationships.

DSA has a youth section, Young Democratic Socialists of America (YDSA). Made up of students from colleges and high schools, the YDSA works on economic justice and democracy and prison justice projects. It is a member of the International Union of Socialist Youth, an affiliate of the Socialist International. YDSA meets several times during the year.

Please join DSA as we work to help build a better and more just world for all.

Nothing of real content there. Just a lot of blah-blah-blah.

Your posted quote syntax was off by one.

The DSA statements seem to try to recruit susceptible or feeble minds to their cause, but AO-C seems to have been a poor student of their courses of indoctrination. She certainly seems to be proof of the feeble mind template.

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Tuesday, December 4, 2018 6:08 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I fixed the quote syntax.

What I find about the DSAUSA statement is that it's crafted to be as inoffensive and not specific as possible. You're right in that it's meant to appeal to the weak-minded. I'm sure they save their real agenda for people who've already joined and been to some extent indoctrinated

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Tuesday, December 4, 2018 8:15 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Yeah. You don't want to be talking about Thetans and Xenu until you really got your hooks into somebody.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 4, 2018 9:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

]Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yeah. You don't want to be talking about Thetans and Xenu until you really got your hooks into somebody.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

HAHAHA! No kidding!

I just wanted to get back to this, which contains the core problem that I see with their
statement:

Quote:

We are socialists because we share a vision of a humane international social order based both on democratic planning and market mechanisms


First of all, they apparently think there will be a "humane" international democracy.

In WHAT magical world are they living in??? Have you seen any "international elections" lately??? Any polling booth where "the people" can vote on where industries are located, or what wages will apply, or what educational, health, environmental, and social protections will apply in every nation?? ANY moves in that direction?

YEAH, ME NEITHER

[/snicker] These people are living in some fantasy-world. Every motion towards globalization has, so far, simply meant more and more power concentrated in a few hands that are far-distant and well-protected from the reactions of "the people"

Second, how do they intend to reconcile "democratic planning" with "market mechanisms"? The two are inherently contradictory, and they need to delineate where one mechanism leaves off and another begins. This is (again) just juvenile fantasizing.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Wednesday, December 5, 2018 1:02 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I fixed the quote syntax.

What I find about the DSAUSA statement is that it's crafted to be as inoffensive and not specific as possible. You're right in that it's meant to appeal to the weak-minded. I'm sure they save their real agenda for people who've already joined and been to some extent indoctrinated.

It's not like they can post the real agenda online for just anybody to read. Fox might investigate and sear h for information like, yanno, journalists used to do that.

Do you feel she is not precisely in alignment with DSA? Maybe she spun off script a bit? That's the impression I get.

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Wednesday, December 5, 2018 7:19 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

]Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yeah. You don't want to be talking about Thetans and Xenu until you really got your hooks into somebody.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

HAHAHA! No kidding!

I just wanted to get back to this, which contains the core problem that I see with their
statement:

Quote:

We are socialists because we share a vision of a humane international social order based both on democratic planning and market mechanisms


First of all, they apparently think there will be a "humane" international democracy.

In WHAT magical world are they living in??? Have you seen any "international elections" lately??? Any polling booth where "the people" can vote on where industries are located, or what wages will apply, or what educational, health, environmental, and social protections will apply in every nation?? ANY moves in that direction?

YEAH, ME NEITHER

[/snicker] These people are living in some fantasy-world. Every motion towards globalization has, so far, simply meant more and more power concentrated in a few hands that are far-distant and well-protected from the reactions of "the people"

Second, how do they intend to reconcile "democratic planning" with "market mechanisms"? The two are inherently contradictory, and they need to delineate where one mechanism leaves off and another begins. This is (again) just juvenile fantasizing.



The closest thing we've seen in modern day is the EU. Those people aren't voted in. The people that they are actually able to vote for in their nation state largely bend at the knee for their EU masters.

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I fixed the quote syntax.

What I find about the DSAUSA statement is that it's crafted to be as inoffensive and not specific as possible. You're right in that it's meant to appeal to the weak-minded. I'm sure they save their real agenda for people who've already joined and been to some extent indoctrinated.

It's not like they can post the real agenda online for just anybody to read. Fox might investigate and sear h for information like, yanno, journalists used to do that.

Do you feel she is not precisely in alignment with DSA? Maybe she spun off script a bit? That's the impression I get.



Who knows? She's either dumb, or dumb like a fox. Nearly everything that comes out of her mouth or shows up on her social media is asinine.

She's either a complete moron, or she's better at playing stupid than Trump is.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, December 8, 2018 4:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well ... I think the whole reason she got voted in was the exceptionally low turnout and basic lack of interest on the voters' part.

Now that she's where she is, we'll get to see where she puts her energies. After all, words are just temporary vapors. It's what she does that counts.

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Saturday, December 8, 2018 5:25 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Well ... I think the whole reason she got voted in was the exceptionally low turnout and basic lack of interest on the voters' part.

Now that she's where she is, we'll get to see where she puts her energies. After all, words are just temporary vapors. It's what she does that counts.



Tribalism, 60% of her constituents are minorities.

T



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Saturday, December 8, 2018 9:31 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


As usual, THUGGER is lying.

Quote:

http://www.gothamgazette.com/state/7774-a-closer-look-at-voter-turnout
-in-2018-new-york-congressional-primaries

Maps compiled by the CUNY Center for Urban Research show that support in the election that has the country buzzing did not break down neatly on racial lines; in fact, Ocasio-Cortez maintained strong support throughout the district, across areas of various demographic makeups.
“This wasn’t a fluke,” said Steven Romalewski, of the Center for Urban Research. “She was able to get voters from almost every neighborhood to come out and support her.” Romalewski noted that, contrary to the conventional wisdom of voting on racial lines, the areas where Ocasio-Cortez’s showing was strongest were areas that weren’t predominantly Hispanic, signaling that her showing may not have been due to the district’s changing demographics (it has been steadily becoming less white for years), but due to desire for change from Crowley.

but
Quote:

With 98 percent of precincts reporting as of Wednesday, the State Board of Elections shows 27,826 registered Democrats cast votes in Tuesday’s primary in New York’s 14th District. With 235,745 registered Democrats as of April, according to the BOE, this comes out to a turnout of around 11.8 percent.
Quote:

https://nypost.com/2018/06/28/most-voters-stayed-home-for-stunning-ale
xandria-ocasio-cortez-win
/
In the race that caused an earthquake in the Democratic Party, 28-year-old newcomer Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez upset longtime Rep. Joe Crowley, 57 percent to 42 percent.
But only about 13 percent of registered Democrats turned out to vote in the 14th Congressional District that takes in parts of Queens and the Bronx, according to a preliminary city Board of Elections tally.






tic tac

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Saturday, December 8, 2018 11:00 PM

REAVERFAN


The trolls leading the dumb. ^

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Sunday, December 9, 2018 8:09 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by REAVERFAN:
The trolls leading the dumb. ^



I figured you were gone forever after CNN turned on you and called your type a violent fringe movement.

Did you run out of innocent trash cans to light on fire or "Nazis" to suckerpunch?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, December 9, 2018 8:55 AM

THG


New York's 14th congressional district

U.S. Representative Joe Crowley (D–Queens)

Population (2016 ACS est.) 691,715

Ethnicity 18.41% White

11.39% Black 16.24% Asian 49.80% Hispanic

0.45% Native American 3.71% other

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=SR4NXLjLCKy7ggfyrpXwBg&
amp;q=Racial+Make+Up+Of+New+Yorks+14th+District&btnK=Google+Search&oq=Racial+Make+Up+Of+New+Yorks+14th+District&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i10i299l3.4013.4013..5616...0.0..0.233.233.2-1......0....1j2..gws-wiz.....0.hXWkQ4H4fJs


Here you go comrade kiki. I ain't knocking it. It's just I try to deal in facts. Fact number one. All ethnicity's practice tribalism. Not just whites.

As the ethnicity of the population changes so does the ethnicity of it's leaders. Again, I ain't knocking it, I just deal in facts.

tick tac asshole



T



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Sunday, December 9, 2018 9:29 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Here you go comrade kiki. I ain't knocking it. It's just I try to deal in facts. Fact number one. All ethnicity's practice tribalism. Not just whites.

As the ethnicity of the population changes so does the ethnicity of it's leaders. Again, I ain't knocking it, I just deal in facts.




I call that Democratic Representation.

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Sunday, December 9, 2018 10:05 AM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Here you go comrade kiki. I ain't knocking it. It's just I try to deal in facts. Fact number one. All ethnicity's practice tribalism. Not just whites.

As the ethnicity of the population changes so does the ethnicity of it's leaders. Again, I ain't knocking it, I just deal in facts.




I call that Democratic Representation.



You can G. You can call it that. And it's exactly why whites have had the power in this country throughout it's history; simply numbers.

T



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Sunday, December 9, 2018 12:39 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


lol

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, December 9, 2018 1:18 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
New York's 14th congressional district

U.S. Representative Joe Crowley (D–Queens)

Population (2016 ACS est.) 691,715

Ethnicity 18.41% White

11.39% Black 16.24% Asian 49.80% Hispanic

0.45% Native American 3.71% other

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=SR4NXLjLCKy7ggfyrpXwBg&
amp;q=Racial+Make+Up+Of+New+Yorks+14th+District&btnK=Google+Search&oq=Racial+Make+Up+Of+New+Yorks+14th+District&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i10i299l3.4013.4013..5616...0.0..0.233.233.2-1......0....1j2..gws-wiz.....0.hXWkQ4H4fJs


Here you go comrade kiki. I ain't knocking it. It's just I try to deal in facts. Fact number one. All ethnicity's practice tribalism. Not just whites.

As the ethnicity of the population changes so does the ethnicity of it's leaders. Again, I ain't knocking it, I just deal in facts.

tick tac asshole



T




Again with the 'comrade', THUGGER?

You just restarted the libel clock on yourself. Statute of limitations is 2 years. I can reach back 2 years from this post for material to sue you.

Got it?

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Sunday, December 9, 2018 1:22 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
New York's 14th congressional district

U.S. Representative Joe Crowley (D–Queens)

Population (2016 ACS est.) 691,715

Ethnicity 18.41% White

11.39% Black 16.24% Asian 49.80% Hispanic

0.45% Native American 3.71% other


But even non-Hispanic areas of the district voted for her. And heavily Hispanic areas voted for Crowley.

I figured you'd be too dumb to click on the link I provided that demonstrated that.

here ya go - asshole






tic tac

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Sunday, December 9, 2018 3:43 PM

THG


Sorry comrade kiki but your post doesn't show what you say it does. My numbers back up my claim.

Now, fuck you comrade kiki and fuck your lawyers as well. You've been promising to sue me and others here for a year now. Get it done dipshit. Ya know, put up or shut up.

T



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Sunday, December 9, 2018 4:30 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Sorry comrade kiki but your post doesn't show what you say it does. My numbers back up my claim.

Now, fuck you comrade kiki and fuck your lawyers as well. You've been promising to sue me and others here for a year now. Get it done dipshit. Ya know, put up or shut up.

T



Thank you for stepping up to the plate.

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Sunday, December 9, 2018 4:33 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Sorry comrade kiki but your post doesn't show what you say it does. My numbers back up my claim.

You know, just because you can't understand maps doesn't mean other people can't. Just saying that doubling down on an idiocy that everyone else can see is an idiocy make you look like an idiot.

BTW, you need a breath mint.


tic tac

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Sunday, December 9, 2018 5:56 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted:
Sorry comrade kiki but your post doesn't show what you say it does. My numbers back up my claim.

You know, just because you can't understand maps doesn't mean other people can't. Just saying that doubling down on an idiocy that everyone else can see is an idiocy make you look like an idiot.

BTW, you need a breath mint.


tic tac

I figured I didn't need to wait long before you schooled the Troll.

Do you have a map to post of what is the racial makeup of that bottom and left area of Queens where she got all her votes, since it obviously is not Hispanic. Absent a map of total votes cast, it looks like Hispanics did not vote.

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Sunday, December 9, 2018 6:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Sorry, no. I did look for a better breakdown, but couldn't find one. Whoever dug up the info posted in the local NYC publication - kudos to them! I suspect they had to go to their local hard-copy records to find it.

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Sunday, December 9, 2018 6:29 PM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

Sorry, no. I did look for a better breakdown, but couldn't find one. Whoever dug up the info posted in the local NYC publication - kudos to them! I suspect they had to go to their local hard-copy records to find it.



Exactly, as I've said, as you just admitted to and as jsf eluded. You posted maps that don't tell the story. I suggest you look at what I've posted again.

49 percent Hispanic, 11 percent black and 18 percent white. The Hispanic won asshole. Simple...

T



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