REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Is social media a public utility? Or a publisher? Are they allowed to control content? Or what?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Thursday, September 13, 2018 04:19
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VIEWED: 194
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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 2:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Social media is exempt from libel and hate speech laws because they disavow any responsibility for their content.

However, once social media starts "curating" what appears on their platforms, they start sliding over into the realm of "publisher", which has a whole boatload of responsibilities and liabilities attached.

This is in reference to "shadow-banning" or "demonetizing" content, or (in the case of Google/Youtube) skewing search results so thoroughly that it's impossible to find what you're looking for, even if you're very very specific with your search terms.

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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 3:24 PM

THG


This is just the right wing lying about Google in an attempt to discredit them. They did and continue to do the same thing with the main stream media. Only those on the right buy into this, just as they have with the propaganda war against all responsible media.

T


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Wednesday, September 5, 2018 4:14 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


troll




THUGGER admits it's not about RUSSIA !!! and is, in fact, a witch hunt. "Trump better be innocent of any wrong doing, anywhere, anytime."

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Tuesday, September 11, 2018 3:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Google Was "Working To Get Hillary Clinton Elected" With "Silent Donation" According To Leaked Internal Email
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-10/google-was-working-get-hilla
ry-clinton-elected-silent-donation-according-leaked



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, September 11, 2018 3:32 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Twitter Caught Censoring Conservative Journalists With Site-Wide Shadowbans


?Two days after Twitter told Congress that they aren't politically biased when censoring content, several prominent conservatives discovered that the social media giant automatically includes them in a site-wide "Quality Filter Discrimination" shadowban which prevents anyone not already following them from viewing their posts.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, September 11, 2018 3:34 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Making Sense Of YouTube's Great Demonetization Controversy Of 2016

https://www.forbes.com/sites/fruzsinaeordogh/2016/09/02/making-sense-o
f-youtubes-great-demonetization-controversy-of-2016/#27fc48746ca9


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, September 11, 2018 4:22 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Alex Jones and Info Wars has essentially been banished from the internet. Twitter was one of the last holdouts and they finally caved to the media pressure, and shortly after iTunes removed the Info Wars app.

Large and extremely popular YouTube presence H3H3 Productions recently had problems on the platform for their opinions on the issue. Joe Rogan, who is an extremely unbiased youtuber that is fairly left leaning on social issues is a friend of Alex's, although he's the first to say how crazy he can be. He's recently had a podcast where he talked about how he can no longer have Alex on as a guest. There's about a 17 minute clip you can find on Youtube about this that he cut out of the podcast to be viewed separately.

While technically not an issue of censorship because these bans were not Government censorship, it does put into question who will be next. In the current political climate there is no doubt that it will be Conservative voices that are silenced, there is no saying that this will be the way it goes forever. As we've seen the pendulum tends to always fall the other way and it may be the other side that feels these bans in the future.


The demonetization was a lower level form of censorship that should not be ignored, but regardless of your opinion of him or whatever way you lean politically, the banning of Alex Jones from the entirety of the internet is a very scary precedent that was just made.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, September 11, 2018 8:39 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Google Was "Working To Get Hillary Clinton Elected" With "Silent Donation" According To Leaked Internal Email
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-10/google-was-working-get-hilla
ry-clinton-elected-silent-donation-according-leaked





Zerohedge, Brietbart, and Tucker Carlson - super swell sources you have their. Might as well be Eric Trump.

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Tuesday, September 11, 2018 8:40 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Twitter Caught Censoring Conservative Journalists With Site-Wide Shadowbans

?Two days after Twitter told Congress that they aren't politically biased when censoring content, several prominent conservatives discovered that the social media giant automatically includes them in a site-wide "Quality Filter Discrimination" shadowban which prevents anyone not already following them from viewing their posts.



Cites or it didn't happen. And even with cites I doubt it happened the way you suggest.

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Tuesday, September 11, 2018 8:49 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Alex Jones and Info Wars has essentially been banished from the internet. Twitter was one of the last holdouts and they finally caved to the media pressure, and shortly after iTunes removed the Info Wars app.

Large and extremely popular YouTube presence H3H3 Productions recently had problems on the platform for their opinions on the issue. Joe Rogan, who is an extremely unbiased youtuber that is fairly left leaning on social issues is a friend of Alex's, although he's the first to say how crazy he can be. He's recently had a podcast where he talked about how he can no longer have Alex on as a guest. There's about a 17 minute clip you can find on Youtube about this that he cut out of the podcast to be viewed separately.

While technically not an issue of censorship because these bans were not Government censorship, it does put into question who will be next. In the current political climate there is no doubt that it will be Conservative voices that are silenced, there is no saying that this will be the way it goes forever. As we've seen the pendulum tends to always fall the other way and it may be the other side that feels these bans in the future.

The demonetization was a lower level form of censorship that should not be ignored, but regardless of your opinion of him or whatever way you lean politically, the banning of Alex Jones from the entirety of the internet is a very scary precedent that was just made.



I remember when people thought AOL was the Internet. That if you weren't *there* you weren't part of it. No, being excluded from YouTube is not being excluded from the Internet. He still has a web page right? He's on the Internet. All that is is the whine of millionaires losing their honey pot.

And if any Democrat ever said the sh*t Alex Jones said I would loose just as little sleep as having them "banned" from YouTube as Jones. He's free to start his own MeTube.

" In the current political climate there is no doubt that it will be Conservative voices that are silenced..."
Correction: " In the current political climate there is no doubt that it will be Conservative voices that are making false claims about being silenced or silenced for no reason, because they want to appease Trump and he hates the lot of them." For some reason Trump's base hates those rich, college educated, digital hipsters.

The Internet is still young and it's learning what does and doesn't work. Initially they threw their platforms wide open, and as is typical of anything that includes so much freedom and money and humans, it was abused. If Alex Jones was allowed to continue people would have every right to complain that Youtube was making money from someone who said Sandy Hook was faked. So what would you do if you were them?

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Tuesday, September 11, 2018 9:00 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Alex Jones and Info Wars has essentially been banished from the internet.

. . . but regardless of your opinion of him or whatever way you lean politically, the banning of Alex Jones from the entirety of the internet is a very scary precedent that was just made.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

You got it wrong, again, 6ix. Infowars is still on the Internet www.infowars.com

But it is so very sad (not really) that Alex Jones is not getting free hosting of his videos on youtube and not getting free advertising on twitter. What next? His advertisers withdraw from www.infowarsstore.com ? Such a tragedy for political discourse! Not really.

In a completely unrelated development: Donald Trump Plays a Demonic Role in Spawn comic book. See 3 pages about what happens during a Trump TV interview when Spawn suddenly appears within the White House.
www.bleedingcool.com/2018/09/10/donald-trump-plays-a-demonic-role-in-s
pawn
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, September 11, 2018 9:35 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Yup.

I've got this page bookmarked.

We'll revisit this issue in 10 years and see what everybody's opinion about it is.

I know how short term your memories are. So I'll remember for you. :)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, September 11, 2018 10:04 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The Internet is still young and it's learning what does and doesn't work. Initially they threw their platforms wide open, and as is typical of anything that includes so much freedom and money and humans, it was abused. If Alex Jones was allowed to continue people would have every right to complain that Youtube was making money from someone who said Sandy Hook was faked. So what would you do if you were them?
LEAVE THEM UP.

Everyone has a right to express their opinion, even the flat-earthers.

The rights of free speech have been tested over and over, and the limits have been defined. Alex Jones did NOT cross the boundary into restricted speech. (eg defamation, threats etc.)

1) The platforms freed themselves of a lot of liability by saying that they're not responsible for the content. Once they start controlling content, the liabilities re-appear.

2) Irrational opinion is best met with rational argument, not banishment.

I rarely listened to Alex Jones, I just couldn't stand all the shouting. But he did have some interesting guests on, and some of the other hosts were more reasonable.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, September 11, 2018 11:18 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

The Internet is still young and it's learning what does and doesn't work. Initially they threw their platforms wide open, and as is typical of anything that includes so much freedom and money and humans, it was abused. If Alex Jones was allowed to continue people would have every right to complain that Youtube was making money from someone who said Sandy Hook was faked. So what would you do if you were them?
LEAVE THEM UP.

Everyone has a right to express their opinion, even the flat-earthers.



He has the rest of the Internet to express his opinion.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The rights of free speech have been tested over and over, and the limits have been defined. Alex Jones did NOT cross the boundary into restricted speech. (eg defamation, threats etc.)



I guess we'll see - he's being sued by parents of the dead children from Sandy Hook for defamation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/business/media/alex-jones-sandy-hoo
k.html


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
1) The platforms freed themselves of a lot of liability by saying that they're not responsible for the content. Once they start controlling content, the liabilities re-appear.

2) Irrational opinion is best met with rational argument, not banishment.



I believe you are correct for #1. It may go to the SC before we have some real LEGAL guidelines for responsibility from these web sites/apps/platform providers.

Disagree on #2. Rational arguments only apply with rational people or people who aren't following contrary agendas. Plus, as has been proven over and over, there are some things our society has deemed off limits for public expression, "fire" at a theater, on and on.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I rarely listened to Alex Jones, I just couldn't stand all the shouting. But he did have some interesting guests on, and some of the other hosts were more reasonable.



Do you have internet access? If you do you are free to visit his web site and hear what he is free to say.

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Tuesday, September 11, 2018 12:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The Internet is still young and it's learning what does and doesn't work. Initially they threw their platforms wide open, and as is typical of anything that includes so much freedom and money and humans, it was abused. If Alex Jones was allowed to continue people would have every right to complain that Youtube was making money from someone who said Sandy Hook was faked. So what would you do if you were them?- CC

LEAVE THEM UP.
Everyone has a right to express their opinion, even the flat-earthers.- SIGNY

He has the rest of the Internet to express his opinion.- CC

But there is value to a "town square". It's the difference between being able to get up on a soapbox on a busy street corner, versus begin able to say whatever you want in a deserted alley. By their virtual monopolies in their respective spheres, Google/Youtube, FB, Twitter etc have created a "commons". One answer is to treat their platforms as a public utility. Another option is to require that their monopolies be broken up.

Quote:

The rights of free speech have been tested over and over, and the limits have been defined. Alex Jones did NOT cross the boundary into restricted speech. (eg defamation, threats etc.) - SIGNY

I guess we'll see - he's being sued by parents of the dead children from Sandy Hook for defamation.- CC

Good. That's the legal process at work, and how these issues SHOULD be settled.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/business/media/alex-jones-sandy-hoo
k.html


Quote:

1) The platforms freed themselves of a lot of liability by saying that they're not responsible for the content. Once they start controlling content, the liabilities re-appear.
2) Irrational opinion is best met with rational argument, not banishment. - SIGNY

I believe you are correct for #1. It may go to the SC before we have some real LEGAL guidelines for responsibility from these web sites/apps/platform providers.

Disagree on #2. Rational arguments only apply with rational people or people who aren't following contrary agendas. Plus, as has been proven over and over, there are some things our society has deemed off limits for public expression, "fire" at a theater, on and on.- CC

THAT is one of the tested limits of free speech, so jurisprudence has already been there/done that.

AFA "rationality" ... I've actually argued with a flat-earther; have you? They can take ANY evidence that you present: that people routinely travel around the globe, that lots of people have taken pictures from planes and from space showing the curvature of the earth, that the law of gravity requires a near-spherical shape etc ... it doesn't matter to them! They have a mental bent... they may be five standard deviations from the norm on that issue, but I STILL wouldn't remove them from the internet.


Quote:

I rarely listened to Alex Jones, I just couldn't stand all the shouting. But he did have some interesting guests on, and some of the other hosts were more reasonable. - SIGNY
Do you have internet access? If you do you are free to visit his web site and hear what he is free to say.- CC

Again, the problem is the "town square" effect. I might not have stumbled across Alex Jones in the first place if he hadn't been on YouTube. I found some of the most interesting people by accident. "Letting" them keep their own websites kind reminds me of the "free speech" zones that were set up ahead of political conventions ... behind barbed wire, three miles away from anywhere.
This was from the 2004 DNC national convention.










-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, September 11, 2018 8:29 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Free speech zones is exactly what this is about.

There is no point in arguing this right now. There will come a time that this happens to a voice they like, or are at least not hostile against... then another... and another... and another.

I'll admit that it might not be too late at that point. For example, they did this to smokers over a decade ago by taxing the fuck out of them, then basically making it illegal to smoke anywhere in Illinois. I told them once that money train ran out they'd be losing something that they enjoyed.

Fast forward to 2018 when Cook County, IL did that sugar tax. It backfired and people went to Will County or to Indiana to buy all of their stuff. Except for the casualties of restaurants in Cook County that couldn't weather the storm, the tax was rescinded and things are now back to the way they were.

Granted, that was an opportunity of locality for those that enjoyed drinking soda. Had there been a national raise in taxes, or had it been the full states of Illinois and Indiana joining together to raise the taxes, they'd have nowhere else to go and the tax would never have been rescinded.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, September 12, 2018 6:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

"Panic And Dismay": Leaked Video Reveals Distraught Google Execs Grappling With Hillary Clinton's Loss

Days after Google was exposed trying to help Hillary Clinton win the 2016 election, a leaked "internal only" video published by Breitbart Senior Tech correspondent Allum Bokhari reveals a panel of Google executives who are absolutely beside themselves following Hillary Clinton's historic loss.

The video is a full recording of Google’s first all-hands meeting following the 2016 election (these weekly meetings are known inside the company as “TGIF” or “Thank God It’s Friday” meetings). Sent to Breitbart News by an anonymous source, it features co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin, VPs Kent Walker and Eileen Naughton, CFO Ruth Porat, and CEO Sundar Pichai. -Breitbart

In the video, Brin can be heard comparing Trump supporters to fascists and extremists - arguing that like other extremists, Trump voters suffered from "boredom" which has, he claims, historically led to fascism and communism.

He then asks his company what they can do to ensure a "better quality of governance and decision-making."

And according to Kent Walker, VP for Global Affairs, those who support populist causes like the MAGA movement are motivated by "fear, xenophobia, hatred and a desire for answers that may or may not be there."

He later says that Google needs to fight to ensure that populist movements around the world are merely a "blip" and a "hiccup" in the arc of history that "bends towards progress."

The video can be seen below, however scroll down for a list of timestamped segments to note, courtesy of Breitbart.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-12/panic-and-dismay-leaked-vide
o-reveals-distraught-google-execs-grappling-hillary


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Wednesday, September 12, 2018 7:26 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Free speech zones is exactly what this is about.



More like too many people were tired of that sh*t as well as the private company - they have better things to do than baby sit.

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
There is no point in arguing this right now. There will come a time that this happens to a voice they like, or are at least not hostile against... then another... and another... and another.



Reddit just banned a QAnon sub reddit - I never read it but a lot of people thought the forum posters went too far, inciting violence, etc. Reddit must have agreed - good for them.

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'll admit that it might not be too late at that point. For example, they did this to smokers over a decade ago by taxing the fuck out of them, then basically making it illegal to smoke anywhere in Illinois. I told them once that money train ran out they'd be losing something that they enjoyed.



Not the same of course. Health care costs for everyone went up to handle smokers' habits and health care issues. Smokers threatened other people's health as well. No one was on smokers' side except the corrupt and evil smoking lobby.

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Fast forward to 2018 when Cook County, IL did that sugar tax. It backfired and people went to Will County or to Indiana to buy all of their stuff. Except for the casualties of restaurants in Cook County that couldn't weather the storm, the tax was rescinded and things are now back to the way they were.



Good f*king God! You don't mean Democracy in action? The will of the people was upheld?? Yeah, that's what it looks like, not like in the movies is it?

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Wednesday, September 12, 2018 7:30 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Again, the problem is the "town square" effect. I might not have stumbled across Alex Jones in the first place if he hadn't been on YouTube. I found some of the most interesting people by accident. "Letting" them keep their own websites kind reminds me of the "free speech" zones that were set up ahead of political conventions ... behind barbed wire, three miles away from anywhere.



You don't think you will stumble acrossmaybe even more interesting people (!) now that you aren't wasting your time with Alex Jones? You may have to look a little harder or deeper in Youtube - o' dear, poor thing.

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Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:35 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
More like too many people were tired of that sh*t as well as the private company - they have better things to do than baby sit.



It's not their job to babysit, or thought police, or cater to the will of cunts that go around calling everybody a Nazi.

Quote:

Reddit just banned a QAnon sub reddit - I never read it but a lot of people thought the forum posters went too far, inciting violence, etc. Reddit must have agreed - good for them.


Like you, I don't know anything about QAnon. Unlike you, I don't flaunt my ignorance by stating firm opinions about something I know nothing about.

Quote:

Not the same of course. Health care costs for everyone went up to handle smokers' habits and health care issues. Smokers threatened other people's health as well. No one was on smokers' side except the corrupt and evil smoking lobby.


All health costs go up because of the huge obesity epidemic in America. People who drink soda and are fat are just as likely to make your insurance premiums rise. People going to a bar to poison themselves with alcohol aren't concerned much with their own health in the first place. In the second place, it should be up to the bar owner to decide. Plenty of bar owners would have gone no smoking at this point because there is a market for it and it would be foolish for them to have not to. All it would have taken was one non-smoking bar owner to try it and see a huge spike in business by non-smokers who enjoyed being able to drink without the smell of cigarettes in the air and others would have jumped on. There would have been a happy medium, instead of an Orwellian solution.

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Good f*king God! You don't mean Democracy in action? The will of the people was upheld?? Yeah, that's what it looks like, not like in the movies is it?



I wouldn't know about movies. I don't watch them.

As for Democracy, that's a laugh. It was all about money. The only soda that was being bought in Cook County anymore was by people on food stamps who didn't pay any of the tax on soda that is still a purchasable item on them. The only reason this tax was recinded is because Cook County's radius is so small that people would drive out of town to buy soda. Cook County was hemorrhaging money because a lot of these people in turn were also taking that time to fill up their tanks and buy the rest of their groceries elsewhere too. The ones that were driving out to Indiana for their soda were able to get their entire grocery list without any sales tax instead of paying the 10.5% sales tax they were paying in Illinois for the same goods.

As I said before, if this were a joint state initiative by Illinois and Indiana, the tax would never have been rescinded. Sure, the people on the very outskirts of both states would be crossing the border, but that's incidental. A majority of the people are around Chicago, Northwest Indiana, Springfield and Indianapolis, and they'd never drive that far.

Politicians don't give a shit about the will of the people unless it involves money.

This issue isn't dead for sure. Expect to see it make a resurgence when they figure out a way to implement it that won't spectacularly backfire on them next time.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:42 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Again, the problem is the "town square" effect. I might not have stumbled across Alex Jones in the first place if he hadn't been on YouTube. I found some of the most interesting people by accident. "Letting" them keep their own websites kind reminds me of the "free speech" zones that were set up ahead of political conventions ... behind barbed wire, three miles away from anywhere.



You don't think you will stumble acrossmaybe even more interesting people (!) now that you aren't wasting your time with Alex Jones? You may have to look a little harder or deeper in Youtube - o' dear, poor thing.



Are you really an idiot, or is this all an act? I just can't believe that somebody is as stupid as you appear to be.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, September 13, 2018 4:19 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I just can't believe that somebody is as stupid as you appear to be.




Do explain. You believe the bs "town square" effect? Lay it on me genius.

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Tue, September 18, 2018 20:14 - 144 posts
Dow @ 20K. Time to jump off!
Tue, September 18, 2018 18:42 - 663 posts

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