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Dutch Spies Caught Russian Hacker

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 10:25
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Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:00 PM

THGRRI


Dutch Spies Caught Russian Hacker Breaching Obama’s White House and Dem Party

Dutch spies alerted their American counterparts as early as 2014 about Russian hacking into State Department and White House computers and subsequent Russian hacking of the Democratic Party in the 2016 election, according to a series of reports in Dutch media.

The joint investigation by de Volkskrant newspaper and Nieuwsuur ("News Hour"), a current-affairs television program, describe how Dutch intelligence experts accessed the Russian hackers' computers and cameras in hallways at a university in Moscow. The Dutch spies watched a team of Russian hackers infiltrate the State Department, the White House and the Democratic Party to pilfer emails and electronic documents, including 2016 campaign emails later published by Wikileaks.

https://www.alternet.org/investigations/dutch-spy-agencies-watched-rus
sian-hacker-breached-state-department-obama-white-house

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Saturday, February 17, 2018 8:50 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Makes you wonder how the US could be "hacked" by a country who was themselves "hacked" by Dutch "Intelligence".

What is this? Amateur hour?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, February 17, 2018 9:40 PM

THGRRI


Russia is at war with our democracy. When will we finally start defending it?

On Friday, special counsel Robert S. Mueller III indicted 13 Russians who are accused of helping orchestrate the greatest foreign threat to U.S. democracy in modern history.

In his first year in office, President Trump incorrectly called Russia’s attack on American democracy a hoax 44 times. He tweeted that “Russia talk is FAKE NEWS put out by the Dems.”

The indictment document blows up such absurd myths once and for all. It connects names with dates and events, describes Russian-organized real-world rallies that Americans attended, and chronicles stolen identities and nefarious bank transfers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/democracy-post/wp/2018/02/17/russi
a-is-at-war-with-our-democracy-when-will-we-finally-start-defending-it/?utm_term=.0b9cafe46ef4




T

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Saturday, February 17, 2018 10:55 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Dutch spies alerted their American counterparts as early as 2014 about Russian hacking into State Department and White House computers and subsequent Russian hacking of the Democratic Party in the 2016 election, according to a series of reports in Dutch media.
And our security state did what?
Nothing?

this is THUGR



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, February 17, 2018 11:57 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


You'd have to digitally remove the shotgun and replace it with a keyboard. Should probably have a TV in the corner with Maddow's ugly mug on it too.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 12:12 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Russia is at war with our democracy." By 'our' democracy, do you mean Israel's?




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 5:11 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You'd have to digitally remove the shotgun and replace it with a keyboard.



No! Its perfect the way it iz! A dumass hick holding hiz useless 'self defens' devise. (exept the part about it being THGRRI)

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:28 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


You've obviously never been the victim of real physical violence, J0. I hope your luck holds out.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 8:04 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

On Friday, special counsel Robert S. Mueller III indicted 13 Russians who are accused of helping orchestrate the greatest foreign threat to U.S. democracy in modern history.
Hyperbole much?

Quote:

In his first year in office, President Trump incorrectly called Russia’s attack on American democracy a hoax 44 times. He tweeted that “Russia talk is FAKE NEWS put out by the Dems.”
STILL a hoax.

Quote:

The indictment document blows up such absurd myths once and for all. It connects names with dates and events, describes Russian-organized real-world rallies that Americans attended, and chronicles stolen identities and nefarious bank transfers.
YES! There were internet trolls!!! (Is that really the "greatest foreign threat to U.S. democracy in modern history"?)

Quote:

Americans of all political stripes must see this charging document as a wake-up call. We must not let partisan divides between Republicans and Democrats blind us to the threat, nor bind us to inaction.
QUICK! SOUND THE ALARM! NOT EVERYONE ON SOCIAL MEDIA IS WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE!

Quote:

We’re in a fight to save our democracy from foreign attacks — and currently we are doing absolutely nothing to fight back.
Well ... maybe not attacks, per se, Possibly interference. Or just information-gathering. That's really scary, right?

Quote:

Mueller’s indictment outlines a sophisticated
underfunded and quite small ...
Quote:

operation with three primary goals: to help elect Donald Trump as president of the United States; to undermine faith in our democratic institutions;
By exposing corruption of our politicians?
Quote:

and to stoke polarization by turning Americans against one another.
Oh yeah! Like the Democratic Party isn't stoking polarization by using "identity politics" of race and sex, showing more favor to nationalities outside of the USA!

Quote:

Each of these goals shares a common overarching aim: to weaken the United States by sowing chaos and division in ways that benefit Russia.
The Democratic Party stands guilty.

Quote:

According to the federal charges, Russians organized pro-Trump rallies. Their operatives were directed to “use any opportunity to criticize Hillary” Clinton on social media. They communicated with “unwitting members” of the Trump campaign and got them to spread Russia-created content. They worked to spread lies about voter fraud around the same time that Trump began spreading those lies himself. And they even paid Americans to attend pro-Trump rallies, including one who was paid to attend a rally dressed up as Clinton in a prison uniform.
OMG!!! Political rallies! Criticism! Sarcasm! Will the horror never end!!

Quote:

Millions of people, online and offline, had interactions with people they believed to be Americans who were actually Russians, bots created by them or actual Americans unwittingly paid by Russians.
HOLY CRAP! People might have been in contact with ACTUAL RUSSIANS!!!

Quote:

We will never know for sure whether the Kremlin’s influence campaign proved decisive in a close election decided by roughly 80,000 voters across three states. But that’s beside the point; we don’t absolve attempted murder just because the victim happens to survive.

But to suggest, as many in Trumpworld do, that not a single American voter was swayed by this three-year-long, carefully orchestrated, wide-reaching information-warfare campaign is a dangerous fantasy — because it downplays the menace that this new kind of threat poses to our democratic system. If you successfully attack the democratic system, you attack the mechanism by which every other decision is made, from tax policy to nuclear weapons. Imagine Pearl Harbor, except that the proverbial flames could engulf our ability to make our own free-thinking democratic choices for years.

THIS article is an attack on the "democratic system". Democracy thrives when there is a freewheeling exchange in the "marketplace of ideas". It doesn't matter where the ideas are coming from, it only matters how much truth there is in them.

There was a previous article that I posted which said that if the problem is lies, then the answer is truth, not more lies. And if Americans aren't committed to finding truth - instead of living in a sea of propaganda - THAT is the biggest threat to democracy.

Quote:

Trump and his ardent supporters, of course, are eager to downplay the threat. Because the Russians tried to help Trump win, they want to pretend it was minor, unimportant and unworthy of a response. That helps explain why Trump failed to impose sanctions that Congress passed with overwhelming bipartisan support, why he bizarrely proposed setting up a joint cybersecurity task force with the same government that conducted a major cyberattack against the United States and why he keeps acting as Russian President Vladimir Putin’s chief apologist in the West.
Trump has wanted better relations with Russia since BEFORE the election. It was part of his platform, not the result of some secret deal with Russia, and the article disingenuously implies.

Quote:

But we cannot afford to view foreign attacks on U.S. democracy through a partisan lens.
YES! Let's leave our own alphabet agencies to orchestrate those attacks itself! To institute universal surveillance, and illegally snoop on candidates and their staffers, to leak [selected] classified information and lies to the US media, to lie directly to the American public, and to limit the scope of free speech in the USA!.

Quote:

U.S. intelligence leaders warned this week that the Kremlin’s operations continue today.
There is one lonely person pecking away at a keyboard, somewhere in Siberia. Be afraid! Be very afraid!

Quote:

It’s striking that the indictment says the Russian operatives stoked polarization by backing left-wing political events after Trump was elected, hoping to drive a wedge between Americans. Russia benefits if American society tears itself apart, holding rallies to attack one another rather than rallying together to protect democracy from foreign attacks.
AMERICANS are stupidly tearing each other apart. Especially those who think that violence (Antifa, anyone?) is justified in imposing their political will on others.

Quote:

The Trump administration’s strategy of defending the Kremlin rather than defending American democracy has sent a clear signal to Moscow. Putin has no reason to stop and every reason to get more aggressive. The Russians’ last operations were effective and solicited no meaningful consequences. By enabling Putin rather than deterring him, Trump has effectively rolled out the digital red carpet for more information warfare in the upcoming midterm elections.

Finally, it’s worth noting that the Mueller indictment of 13 Russians does not in any way resolve the question of whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russia or any aspects of Mueller’s investigation related to obstruction of justice.

Oy, back to THIS shit again?

Quote:

What it does make clear is that Russia wants to undermine American democracy. We are letting Russia do so. It’s time not only to fight back — but also to try to find common ground, uniting at least on this issue, to protect the democratic values and democratic system that most of us cherish, before it’s too late.
WOW, what a ringing call to do... something! Shoot yourself in the foot, perhaps!


*****

This article keep talking about attacks on "American democracy" but what IS "American democracy", and how could one possibly attack it?

I mean there are the institutions of democracy ... the mechanics of voting, the "free" press (which represents corporate interests), free speech rights, privacy, equal application of the law, public trials etc ... but it seems to me that the American political parties, the alphabet agencies, corporations AND STUPID PEOPLE are doing a MUCH better job attacking our democratic institutions than "RUSSIA!" (No wonder SECOND thinks that you're all nematodes!)

Take, for example, the mechanics of voting. Ever since evidence of electronic voting fraud appeared in FL in 2000 and in six MORE states in 2008, I have been fit to be tied about the vulnerability of our voting ... and especially our vote COUNTING .... systems. You should look into Black Box Voting. If you REALLY want a secure vote, then use paper ballots and hand-count them. Our voter rolls are vulnerable. But then, so are our hospitals and credit card processors and banks and utilities. So, when are we going to get on the ball and DO something about cybersecurity by outlawing Microsoft?

And then there are our privacy rights and right to a jury trial. The security state under both parties have successively made worse and worse hash of them.

What about our media? Can anyone honestly tell me that it represents anything other than the interests of the large corporations which own them?

And finally, the "progressives'" attack on the notion of the United States itself, and the American identity. It seems stupid to me that the same people who attacked Trump for his "nationalism" are now attacking Trump for not being nationalistic enough.

If our democracy can't withstand a few people promoting a few ideas in the context of a political debate, or exposing corruption in our body politic, but wind up crying for censorship, there is a lot more wrong with our democracy than a few foreigners. Clearly, there are quite a few Americans who really don't know what democracy is, and wind up attacking it instead.





-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 9:20 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Dutch spies alerted their American counterparts as early as 2014 about Russian hacking into State Department and White House computers and subsequent Russian hacking of the Democratic Party in the 2016 election, according to a series of reports in Dutch media.
And our security state did what?
Nothing?




3 or 4 guilty pleas so far sig. All having to do with White House staff. 13 Russian indictments, with many more indictments to come sig.

Some of us here have been sounding the alarm, while you sig, while you, are one of the ones saying nothing to see here.

Trump is innocent but Obama is guilty? Pathetic


T

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 12:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
3 or 4 guilty pleas so far sig. All having to do with White House staff.

But nothing to do at all with 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'. So why would you misrepresent the facts, again?




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 12:11 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
3 or 4 guilty pleas so far sig. All having to do with White House staff.

But nothing to do at all with 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'. So why would you misrepresent the facts, again?




Yet kiki, yet as far as Trump goes. As far as the russians go, 13 indictments so far.


T

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 12:17 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
3 or 4 guilty pleas so far sig. All having to do with White House staff.

Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
But nothing to do at all with 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'. So why would you misrepresent the facts, again?

Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Yet kiki, yet as far as Trump goes.

So, I'm glad you agree with me. Nothing about 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 12:24 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
3 or 4 guilty pleas so far sig. All having to do with White House staff.

Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
But nothing to do at all with 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'. So why would you misrepresent the facts, again?

Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Yet kiki, yet as far as Trump goes.

So, I'm glad you agree with me. Nothing about 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'.




EXCEPT 13 RUSSIANS HAVE BEEN INDICTED.


T

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 12:35 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So I'm glad you agree with me. Nothing about 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'.





So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 12:39 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So I'm glad you agree with me. Nothing about 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'.



I just love this back and forth. It shows you can't counter facts. That now as always, you lie.

13 russians indicted. Your delusional state can't change that comrade. So sad, so so said. Except I'm laying on the floor laughing. 13 russians indicted.


T

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 12:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


And I'm glad you STILL agree with me. Nothing about 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 12:48 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So - MONTHS ago (no, not going to even try to find the link) what I said was that Mueller was probably going to find business corruption, but no collusion between Trump and Russia.

And so far, I'm right, despite all THUGGER's misdirected bloviating.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:27 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
And I'm glad you STILL agree with me. Nothing about 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'.



Oops, I forgot. Besides 13 Russians being indicted, 3 Russian companies were as well. My bad


T

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:37 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


And I'm glad you STILL agree with me. Nothing about 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'. Despite your desperation to incite anti-Trump passions, there is, still, no there there.





So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:41 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
And I'm glad you STILL agree with me. Nothing about 'collusion', or 'Russia', or 'collusion with Russia'. Despite your desperation to incite anti-Trump passions, there is, still no there there.



Trumps saying the same thing. Hard to miss you two are on the same page, Putins' page. The large number of tweets after Mueller's most recent indictments shows he is under great stress. Tick tock Trump, tick tock kiki.


T

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:47 PM

THGRRI


What a great day. Is everyone else enjoying the day? Tick tock..

Hey rappy, enjoying your day?

T

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 2:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Except I've been saying this for months, ever since this whole witch hunt began. I KNOW! It means he must be reading my posts! I must be Trump's secret Russian advisor! /sarcasm




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 3:07 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Except I've been saying this for months, ever since this whole witch hunt began. I KNOW! It means he must be reading my posts! I must be Trump's secret Russian advisor! /sarcasm



Right I know. I am saying you and others have been calling the Russian investigation a witch hunt just like Trump. I'm also saying that sentiment is one of Putin's talking points. It is also the same response of the Russian diplomats.

Our government is saying, 13 Russians indicted along with 3 Russian companies with more to come comrade. We have not heard anything yet concerning wiki leaks or the DNC hacking. We agree...you are posting Putins talking points.


T

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 3:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I've been calling the COLLUSION CLAIMS a witch hunt designed to get Trump out of office and undo the election.

Not that you understand the difference between those two ideas. It's too subtle for you.

But no - Russians also did not 'hack' the election, unless you want to call freely exchanged ideas in a democracy 'hacking'. Though I suppose you do. 'Cause to you, it doesn't matter if an idea is backed by evidence - or not. All you care about is that YOUR SIDE gets to tell the ONLY story. All you care about is there will be only approved sources with approved messages; you don't care about the veracity of the content.

In other words, you want Russian-style US government censorship, and Russian-style US government propaganda. Anything less is unthinkable to you.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 3:42 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I've been calling the COLLUSION CLAIMS a witch hunt designed to get Trump out of office and undo the election.

Not that you understand the difference between those two ideas. It's too subtle for you.

But no - Russians also did not 'hack' the election, unless you want to call freely exchanged ideas in a democracy 'hacking'. Though I suppose you do. 'Cause to you, it doesn't matter if an idea is backed by evidence - or not. All you care about is that YOUR SIDE gets to tell the ONLY story. All you care about is there will be only approved sources with approved messages; you don't care about the veracity of the content.

In other words, you want Russian-style US government censorship, and Russian-style US government propaganda. Anything less is unthinkable to you.



I am aware. I am aware of you and others spinning and denying all the truths unveiled about Trump, his cronies, and the Russians by the media since before the election. This is just more of the same.

13 Russians are indicted along with 3 Russian companies and your response is not about that, but instead about what charges were not included in the indictments. Same talking points as Trump and the Russians.

Spin, meaningless, so what, that shit's yet to come. Another thing I am acutely aware of is that you and others, have yet to show any concerns regarding anything the Russians have done, nothing zip. Your concern is always for how the Russians are negatively depicted in my and others posts.

Why is that comrade? I'll tell you why. Because some of us here saw through you from the beginning. Russian troll, you and sig are Russian trolls. The others who join with you are just trolls looking for a place to troll. Sad...but, your collective dishonesty and stupidity is being revealed in real time. Yea...for the good folk, the browncoats who post here.

Oh yeah, tick tock tick tock, Trump and you trolls are playing checkers, Mueller and the rest of us here are playing chess.




T

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 5:35 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"spinning and denying all the truths unveiled about Trump, his cronies, and the Russians by the media since before the election"

Actually - what I've been saying is that there's NO EVIDENCE for the claims made.

FOR EXAMPLE: the three main spook agencies - FBI, CIA, and NSA - have all claimed with varying levels of confidence (the NSA with lesser confidence) that Russia 'hacked' the DNC server, stole the emails, and ALSO gave them to wikileaks.

What evidence did they have for their claims? None. And why not? NONE OF THESE AGENCIES WERE ALLOWED TO EXAMINE THE DNC SYSTEMS DIRECTLY. ALL of the information they had was filtered through CrowdStrike. Furthermore, not only did CrowdStrike severely limit the data the agencies were allowed to see, we have no guarantee it didn't ADD data of its own.

But there is even more to this story.

Whether or not Russia 'snooped' on the DNC servers, the claims made that Russians 'hacked' the emails and ALSO gave them to wikileaks are patently untrue. How do we know that? Both the person who received the thumbdrive and passed it on to wikileaks, AND wikileaks itself, says the source was NOT a Russian 'hack', it was an insider leak.

Aside from their direct knowledge, there's also supporting technical data. A New Report Raises Big Questions About Last Year’s DNC Hack https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-ab
out-last-years-dnc-hack
/

And even current 'blockbuster' stories about Dutch hacking and Russian-national indictments don't directly add to any supporting evidence for this story. Here's a link to the original Volkskrant story, translated into English. https://www.volkskrant.nl/tech/dutch-agencies-provide-crucial-intel-ab
out-russia-s-interference-in-us-elections~a4561913
/

The important operational caveat is this
Quote:

It's unknown what exact information the hackers (in the Netherlands) acquire about the Russians
Though, FWIW I trust the Dutch far more than I trust our spook agencies, since the Dutch don't have a history of lying to us.

But there's even more reason the believe the DNC emails did NOT come from Russian 'hacks', and that's the dates of the emails themselves. Russians were supposedly observed hacking the DNC in 2015. But "There are only a couple of emails per month (~1/day) through 2015 and up to April 18, 2016. Nearly all of these early emails were non-confidential emails involving DNCPress or innocuous emails to/from Jordan Kaplan of the DNC." https://climateaudit.org/2017/09/02/email-dates-in-the-wikileaks-dnc-a
rchive
/ Is THAT what the Russians were doing through all of 2015 and the first quarter of 2016, when they were supposedly observed hacking and cracking? That's it?

Were Russians snooping? Probably. They same way we snoop on them. Did they 'hack' the DNC and give the emails to wikileaks? The Russians were observed in 2015 hacking and downloading files ... from 2016. So, yes the Russians did it, but only if you believe they can time-travel.






So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 6:26 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"spinning and denying all the truths unveiled about Trump, his cronies, and the Russians by the media since before the election"

Actually - what I've been saying is that there's NO EVIDENCE for the claims made.




Yes you do, but the mainstream media along with the highest representatives of the law in this country say there is. Sorry, you lose.


T

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 7:06 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


To you, it doesn't matter if an idea is backed by evidence - or not. All you care about is that YOUR SIDE gets to tell the ONLY story. All you care about is there will be only approved sources with approved messages; you don't care about the veracity of the content.

You want only one message to prevail - the government's.

What does that make you?


But, back to the topic. Whatever the Dutch government claims to have observed, doesn't have anything to do with the DNC files given to wikileaks. And there is STILL no evidence for what we're being told.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 8:46 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Oh yeah, tick tock tick tock, Trump and you trolls are playing checkers, Mueller and the rest of us here are playing chess.



There it is again.

Tell me T... What exactly is it that you personally have done?


All I can see from this vantage point is that you've posted a bunch of links, cried and complained, accused people of being Russian, and advocated for the hate of people for over a year on a message board with under a dozen regular posters.

You do realize that you and Mueller aren't on the same team, right? You're not even in the same league.

If you are playing chess right now, you're one of the pawns.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 8:59 PM

THGRRI


You just don't get it jack. I'm already getting what I want. Trump is tied up in knots. He and his cronies are the worst thing that has happened to this country, and Mueller is draining that swamp thank god. That and I now know Russia is not going to get cleanly away. They are not going to be allowed to reek havoc in this country without paying a heavy price. I want them kicked in the head.

You've asked what I've done. All you see is what I post here regarding our own personal Russian, and just plain trolls, i.e. you. I post to expose their bullshit. What else I do is my business. I will say that voting for the right people is another way I help.



Former Trump Aide Rick Gates Will Plead Guilty To Mueller Probe Charges: Report

Rick Gates, a former campaign aide to President Donald Trump, will plead guilty to charges related to fraud and is willing to testify against his longtime business partner, Paul Manafort, The Los Angeles Times reported on Sunday.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rick-gates-plead-guilty_us_5a8a13
3ee4b004fc31937627



T

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Sunday, February 18, 2018 9:14 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rick-gates-plead-guilty_us_5a8a13
3ee4b004fc31937627

"Gates, who served as Trump’s deputy campaign manager, was indicted in October along with Manafort on charges ranging from money laundering to violations of foreign lobbying laws."

Collusion? Russia? Trump?

Hello? Hello? Anybody alive between those ears?




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, February 19, 2018 8:59 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
You just don't get it jack. I'm already getting what I want. Trump is tied up in knots. He and his cronies are the worst thing that has happened to this country, and Mueller is draining that swamp thank god. That and I now know Russia is not going to get cleanly away. They are not going to be allowed to reek havoc in this country without paying a heavy price. I want them kicked in the head.

You've asked what I've done. All you see is what I post here regarding our own personal Russian, and just plain trolls, i.e. you. I post to expose their bullshit. What else I do is my business. I will say that voting for the right people is another way I help.



So in other words, you do nothing.

lol at Trump being the worst thing that ever happened to our country. How quickly we forget all of the horrible things that happened under GWB and continued under Obama.

At the end of the day if Trump is innocent of Russian collusion, then he didn't actually do anything wrong. What else is there then that would make him the worst thing that ever happened to our country?


I'm loving what's happening now man. Russian spies getting targeted and convicted, top level politicians and government employees getting exposed for nefarious deeds, or getting fired or quitting, my taxes are less next year, no Muslims bombing us here like is still happening all the time all over Europe.


I'm glad you're happy man. I am too. Life is good.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 19, 2018 10:28 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rick-gates-plead-guilty_us_5a8a13
3ee4b004fc31937627

"Gates, who served as Trump’s deputy campaign manager, was indicted in October along with Manafort on charges ranging from money laundering to violations of foreign lobbying laws."

Collusion? Russia? Trump?

Hello? Hello? Anybody alive between those ears?



Hello? Anybody there? No one who is being investigated can be declared innocent until after the investigation is over. Especially from the thing they are being investigated for. This includes Trump. If he didn't conspire with the Russians then he will be exonerated of that accusation.

His staff meet with the Russians many times though. Even in Trump Towers. They brought them in the back door, why? They all denied meetings with Russians took place, any meetings. As time went by it was proven over and over again they did. Doesn't look good.

tick tock




T

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Monday, February 19, 2018 10:41 AM

THGRRI


This is not a tit for tat Jack. We're talking about Trump. I am not going to get into a discussion about GWB, Obama or Clinton with someone who does it as a tit for tat, an excuse or deflection away from Trump.

Or with someone who deals in emotions and not facts. With someone who does very little to no research and opines based on negativity.


T

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Monday, February 19, 2018 10:53 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
This is not a tit for tat Jack. We're talking about Trump. I am not going to get into a discussion about GWB, Obama or Clinton with someone who does it as a tit for tat, an excuse or deflection away from Trump.

Or with someone who deals in emotions and not facts. With someone who does very little to no research and opines based on negativity.



You're talking about Trump. I'm not. So long as he isn't found guilty, I'm completely fine with how he's been handling things. Although I have said quite a bit I think somebody should take away his Twitter privileges.

GWB and Obama were the two worst administrations in my life. If Trump was collaborating with the Russians in a nefarious way, his admin will be even worse. If not, then not. Period.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 19, 2018 11:36 AM

THGRRI


You're completely fine with what Trump is doing. That's what you posted jack. My opinion of you goes in the toilet with that statement. Well, you've been in the toilet for a long time now with me. And that's only one of the reasons why.

I'll add it's amazing how concerned you are with the other presidents and not this one with all that has been revealed. I get sig and kiki. With them it's protect Russia. With you it's like you still think on a level where someone has to remind you not to touch the hot stove. It's simply amazing.


T

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Monday, February 19, 2018 11:52 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


What has been revealed of Trump?

Just for a moment, humor me and pretend any Russia stuff doesn't exist.


Outside of Russia, name one thing that I'm supposed to agree with you that Trump is the worst president ever.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 19, 2018 11:55 AM

THGRRI


Pick a topic.

Foreign, he destroyed all our working relationships with our allies. They no longer trust us jack

Domestically, he has ignited or at least contributed to a race war.



http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/reflecting-on-president-s-day-w
ith-trump-in-wh-1164835907524



T

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Monday, February 19, 2018 2:54 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"No one who is being investigated can be declared innocent until after the investigation is over."

Then you really ARE un-American! The Constitution itself declares EVERYONE innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

* I'm * holding people to an AMERICAN standard of justice.

What standard are YOU using?




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, February 19, 2018 3:09 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"No one who is being investigated can be declared innocent until after the investigation is over."

Then you really ARE un-American! The Constitution itself declares EVERYONE innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

* I'm * holding people to an AMERICAN standard of justice.

What standard are YOU using?




Reporting what's in the news, what we know so far, is not the same as saying let's put Trump in jail without a trial. I'll excuse your ignorance on this, you being from Russia.

Believing him guilty after all that's been reported is only forming an opinion. Again, not the same thing as saying forget the investigation lets put him in jail now. Again you being Russian, I know you don't really understand how the rule of law works in America.

I see you're experiencing a high of 25 degrees with a fifty percent chance of snow in St. Petersburg Russia. It's cold and snowy over here in my part of America too.


T

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Monday, February 19, 2018 7:51 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Reporting what's in the news, what we know so far, is not the same as saying let's put Trump in jail without a trial.
"No one who is being investigated can be declared innocent until after the investigation is over."






So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, February 19, 2018 8:00 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Reporting what's in the news, what we know so far, is not the same as saying let's put Trump in jail without a trial.

"No one who is being investigated can be declared innocent until after the investigation is over."





Yep, all true and I stick by those statements.


T

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Monday, February 19, 2018 8:17 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


good thanks for the confirmation it's useful to me
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Reporting what's in the news, what we know so far, is not the same as saying let's put Trump in jail without a trial.

"No one who is being investigated can be declared innocent until after the investigation is over."





Yep, all true and I stick by those statements.


T






So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, February 19, 2018 8:46 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Guilty until proven innocent, huh Tigger?

That's the America you're fighting for then, is it?

You're a real piece of work.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, February 20, 2018 10:25 AM

THGRRI


Mueller charges man who communicated with Gates with making false statements

Special counsel Robert Mueller is charging a man who communicated with former Trump campaign adviser Rick Gates with making false statements to federal officials.
Alex Van Der Zwaan is charged with making “materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statements and representations” to the special counsel’s office and FBI agents.

Van Der Zwaan allegedly lied about his last communications with Gates and deleted emails requested by the special counsel’s office, according to the indictment.
Van Der Zwaan allegedly did so as part of his work as an attorney employed by a firm hired by the Ukrainian Ministry of Justice to prepare a report on the trial of Yulia Tymoshenko, a former prime minister of Ukraine.

The new charges come as Gates is reportedly nearing a plea deal with Mueller that could lead to his testimony against former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, who faces a series of charges included money laundering and making false statements to the FBI.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mueller-charges-man-who-commun
icated-with-gates-with-making-false-statements/ar-BBJn8e5?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp




T

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