REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Tax Cuts

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 2, 2021 11:55
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Friday, December 29, 2017 11:15 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Um, Granny? We already had this conversation and I already corrected your intended insults ("Daddy's business..."), or don't you remember?- GSTRING

link please. I recall you saying that both your parents had Alzheimer's/ dementia, and when I expressed my sympathy you (of course) pissed on it. Other than that ... ? - SIGNY

Riiiight... you said the planet would be better off without me (and others) and "I'm coming for you!" so spare me your fake concern. You're a conceited, me-first arse hat, plain and simple.- GSTRING



LINKS PLEASE?

But of course, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH you inheriting your daddy's business, having a comfortable niche where you can while away the hours on FFF.net insulting and trolling (when you aren't stuck to social media, that is), being totally out of touch with ordinary Americans and their worries (and the unemployment and underemployment situation), and quite obviously living in your own comfortable bubble with all of the concerns of a silver-spoon child.

Nope! You DIDN'T address any of that.

You may have inherited your daddy's money, but none of his smarts, because you attempted to pull off a really stupid lie by saying that "We already had this conversation". No, son, we didn't. So either YOUR memory is bad, or you're a liar. I vote "liar".

Happy New Year to you too.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, December 29, 2017 1:15 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Cutting taxes is in the Republican DNA. Even an idiot such as George Bush can do it.

Like Trump, Bush lost the popular vote in 2000. Unlike Trump, Bush only won the Electoral College because of the US supreme court. Despite that added spice of illegitimacy, despite having smaller majorities in both houses of Congress (razor-thin in the Senate, almost razor-thin in the House), Bush still managed to push through massive tax cuts – and, unlike Trump, got 40 Democrats to vote with him. And Bush completed his mission a full six months sooner than Trump did.

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Friday, December 29, 2017 1:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


That's okay. His smart phone makes him smart.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, December 29, 2017 1:25 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
For one in two Americans, those in the bottom half of the income pile, income actually shrank on Reagan’s watch. In 1980, the year he was elected, they earned $16,371 a year on average, in today’s dollars, according to the World Wealth and Income Database. By 1988, Reagan’s last year in office, they had to make do with $16,268.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/26/business/economy/tax-cuts-incomes.h
tml


T

Well Shazaam! That must be why he was reelected in a landslide, which Democraps have never seen with their party.
Perhaps you could provide a reliable, credible news source, instead of hanging your hat on The Libtard's Gospel.

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Friday, December 29, 2017 1:26 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


lol... I'd love to be making $16,268 in today's dollars.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, December 29, 2017 3:16 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
For one in two Americans, those in the bottom half of the income pile, income actually shrank on Reagan’s watch. In 1980, the year he was elected, they earned $16,371 a year on average, in today’s dollars, according to the World Wealth and Income Database. By 1988, Reagan’s last year in office, they had to make do with $16,268.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/26/business/economy/tax-cuts-incomes.h
tml


T

Well Shazaam! That must be why he was reelected in a landslide, which Democraps have never seen with their party.
Perhaps you could provide a reliable, credible news source, instead of hanging your hat on The Libtard's Gospel.

I am unable to navigate that wid database.
Can you tell me the numbers they use for 1981, 1982, 1983 - the end of the devastating Carter Economy?
Six, could you help getting those numbers?

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Friday, December 29, 2017 3:26 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow... is that true JSF?

That's not something I read before. I certainly don't see how that benefits the working class at all.)

I heard the news report that 2 States had their Governors sign urgent quick laws to allow their residents to pay their property tax early, so it could be before Dec 31. I think NY and NJ.
I never heard of Governments that did not allow taxes to be paid early. How stupid is that? Free money for the coffers early, less I terest to pay, etc.

OTOH, can you imagine the chaos in Property Tax Offices this week?

In terms of overall benefits of Tax Reform, the simpler the better. Which means less or fewer different kinds of deductions, which would be the case here.
In terms of specific application, consider examples of 2 different taxpayers. 1 is similar to you, or even barely had a benefit of itemizing. 2 is carrying a Million Dollar home. The standard deduction and personal exemptions were raised, one of them doubled - that is for everybody, regardless of Income bracket. By trading an increased Universal deduction and exemptions with elimination of property tax deductible, which party gets the greater benefit? How about a family with one house but more kids? Or somebody not owning property? Those benefitting the greatest from property tax deductible were likely higher income, with more property values. The hard working shlub did not benefit as much, if at all.


That certainly sounds reasonable... but unfortunately I don't see anything aobout either one of them doubling. That would mean either an increase of the personal exemption from $4050 to $8100 or an increase of the standard deduction from $6350 to $12,700.

The current combined total is $4050 + $6350, or $10,400.

The article I'm reading says that both will be combined into a single larger standard deduction of $12,000. So... not really a double at all since it eliminates the personal exemption. Just an increase of $1,600 for a single filer. A larger increase than normal years, so good for me since I use it, but not really all that great.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12


Chances are that most low income earners wouldn't come close to being able to itemize at $12k if they were before. If nothing changes for me, almost my entire paycheck next year will be under that $12k cap. Whatever isn't I'll likely put into an IRA to avoid any taxes.

Thanks for that linky, I had only been going by what people said.
Property taxes likely did not affect, or help the poorest.
Let's assume that linky is accurate, and run some numbers.

Single, with income 21,520. In 2018 Tax would be $952. In 2017 Tax was $1203. With 1 non-spouse dependent $707. But that wage is $10/hr for 40 hour weeks the whole year, no other income.

Income 50,700. 2018 -> $4,456. 2017 -> $5,814. +1 dependent -> $5,039. +2 dependent -> $4,432.

Income 94,500. 2018 -> $14,092. 2017 -> $16,764. +1 -> $15,752. +2 -> $14,739.

Income 169,500. 2018 -> $32,092. 2017 -> $37,536. +1 -> $36,562.: +2 -> $35,588. +3 -> $34,614. +4 -> $33,640. +5 -> $32,666.

In 2018 there are no extra deductions for each dependent, other than spouse.
Looks like taxpayers with 1 or 0 kids are getting a Tax cut. Mostly due to the reduced Tax Rate in each bracket, plus the expansion of brackets.
I might cry for you if you make $100 too much and have to pay $10 in Tax.

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Friday, December 29, 2017 4:20 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


So overall, I expect to pay a lot less in taxes in 2018.

Still, need to see Medicare and Social Security stabilized, as well as health insurance rates. Raising or eliminating the cap on Social Security taxable income and negotiating for lower drug prices would really help, but that would be too simple!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, December 29, 2017 8:41 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow... is that true JSF?

That's not something I read before. I certainly don't see how that benefits the working class at all.)

I heard the news report that 2 States had their Governors sign urgent quick laws to allow their residents to pay their property tax early, so it could be before Dec 31. I think NY and NJ.
I never heard of Governments that did not allow taxes to be paid early. How stupid is that? Free money for the coffers early, less I terest to pay, etc.

OTOH, can you imagine the chaos in Property Tax Offices this week?

In terms of overall benefits of Tax Reform, the simpler the better. Which means less or fewer different kinds of deductions, which would be the case here.
In terms of specific application, consider examples of 2 different taxpayers. 1 is similar to you, or even barely had a benefit of itemizing. 2 is carrying a Million Dollar home. The standard deduction and personal exemptions were raised, one of them doubled - that is for everybody, regardless of Income bracket. By trading an increased Universal deduction and exemptions with elimination of property tax deductible, which party gets the greater benefit? How about a family with one house but more kids? Or somebody not owning property? Those benefitting the greatest from property tax deductible were likely higher income, with more property values. The hard working shlub did not benefit as much, if at all.


That certainly sounds reasonable... but unfortunately I don't see anything aobout either one of them doubling. That would mean either an increase of the personal exemption from $4050 to $8100 or an increase of the standard deduction from $6350 to $12,700.

The current combined total is $4050 + $6350, or $10,400.

The article I'm reading says that both will be combined into a single larger standard deduction of $12,000. So... not really a double at all since it eliminates the personal exemption. Just an increase of $1,600 for a single filer. A larger increase than normal years, so good for me since I use it, but not really all that great.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12


Chances are that most low income earners wouldn't come close to being able to itemize at $12k if they were before. If nothing changes for me, almost my entire paycheck next year will be under that $12k cap. Whatever isn't I'll likely put into an IRA to avoid any taxes.

Thanks for that linky, I had only been going by what people said.
Property taxes likely did not affect, or help the poorest.
Let's assume that linky is accurate, and run some numbers.

Single, with income 21,520. In 2018 Tax would be $952. In 2017 Tax was $1203. With 1 non-spouse dependent $707. But that wage is $10/hr for 40 hour weeks the whole year, no other income.

Income 50,700. 2018 -> $4,456. 2017 -> $5,814. +1 dependent -> $5,039. +2 dependent -> $4,432.

Income 94,500. 2018 -> $14,092. 2017 -> $16,764. +1 -> $15,752. +2 -> $14,739.

Income 169,500. 2018 -> $32,092. 2017 -> $37,536. +1 -> $36,562.: +2 -> $35,588. +3 -> $34,614. +4 -> $33,640. +5 -> $32,666.

In 2018 there are no extra deductions for each dependent, other than spouse.
Looks like taxpayers with 1 or 0 kids are getting a Tax cut. Mostly due to the reduced Tax Rate in each bracket, plus the expansion of brackets.
I might cry for you if you make $100 too much and have to pay $10 in Tax.



On face value, this definitely doesn't seem to be the horror show that some people were claiming it was. Any word yet on what the 2019 situation forward is going to look like? I don't want to be saying everything is a-okay when we've been duped by a good first year trojan horse.

lol... I still don't believe that the single guy without kids is getting a tax break. This sounds waaaaaaay too good to be true. Since when does Government reward responsibility?

Do you know anything about EIC in 2018? Do single parents with 4 kids now make 3 times as much as I do instead of only twice as much for the same job?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, December 30, 2017 8:58 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow... is that true JSF?

That's not something I read before. I certainly don't see how that benefits the working class at all.)

I heard the news report that 2 States had their Governors sign urgent quick laws to allow their residents to pay their property tax early, so it could be before Dec 31. I think NY and NJ.
I never heard of Governments that did not allow taxes to be paid early. How stupid is that? Free money for the coffers early, less I terest to pay, etc.

OTOH, can you imagine the chaos in Property Tax Offices this week?

In terms of overall benefits of Tax Reform, the simpler the better. Which means less or fewer different kinds of deductions, which would be the case here.
In terms of specific application, consider examples of 2 different taxpayers. 1 is similar to you, or even barely had a benefit of itemizing. 2 is carrying a Million Dollar home. The standard deduction and personal exemptions were raised, one of them doubled - that is for everybody, regardless of Income bracket. By trading an increased Universal deduction and exemptions with elimination of property tax deductible, which party gets the greater benefit? How about a family with one house but more kids? Or somebody not owning property? Those benefitting the greatest from property tax deductible were likely higher income, with more property values. The hard working shlub did not benefit as much, if at all.


That certainly sounds reasonable... but unfortunately I don't see anything aobout either one of them doubling. That would mean either an increase of the personal exemption from $4050 to $8100 or an increase of the standard deduction from $6350 to $12,700.

The current combined total is $4050 + $6350, or $10,400.

The article I'm reading says that both will be combined into a single larger standard deduction of $12,000. So... not really a double at all since it eliminates the personal exemption. Just an increase of $1,600 for a single filer. A larger increase than normal years, so good for me since I use it, but not really all that great.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12


Chances are that most low income earners wouldn't come close to being able to itemize at $12k if they were before. If nothing changes for me, almost my entire paycheck next year will be under that $12k cap. Whatever isn't I'll likely put into an IRA to avoid any taxes.

Thanks for that linky, I had only been going by what people said.
Property taxes likely did not affect, or help the poorest.
Let's assume that linky is accurate, and run some numbers.

Single, with income 21,520. In 2018 Tax would be $952. In 2017 Tax was $1203. With 1 non-spouse dependent $707. But that wage is $10/hr for 40 hour weeks the whole year, no other income.

Income 50,700. 2018 -> $4,456. 2017 -> $5,814. +1 dependent -> $5,039. +2 dependent -> $4,432.

Income 94,500. 2018 -> $14,092. 2017 -> $16,764. +1 -> $15,752. +2 -> $14,739.

Income 169,500. 2018 -> $32,092. 2017 -> $37,536. +1 -> $36,562.: +2 -> $35,588. +3 -> $34,614. +4 -> $33,640. +5 -> $32,666.

In 2018 there are no extra deductions for each dependent, other than spouse.
Looks like taxpayers with 1 or 0 kids are getting a Tax cut. Mostly due to the reduced Tax Rate in each bracket, plus the expansion of brackets.
I might cry for you if you make $100 too much and have to pay $10 in Tax.


On face value, this definitely doesn't seem to be the horror show that some people were claiming it was. Any word yet on what the 2019 situation forward is going to look like? I don't want to be saying everything is a-okay when we've been duped by a good first year trojan horse.

lol... I still don't believe that the single guy without kids is getting a tax break. This sounds waaaaaaay too good to be true. Since when does Government reward responsibility?

Do you know anything about EIC in 2018? Do single parents with 4 kids now make 3 times as much as I do instead of only twice as much for the same job?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I only got data from the link you gave.
Maybe Tax Cut is too confusing. I meant pay increase.

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Sunday, December 31, 2017 8:10 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow... is that true JSF?

That's not something I read before. I certainly don't see how that benefits the working class at all.)

I heard the news report that 2 States had their Governors sign urgent quick laws to allow their residents to pay their property tax early, so it could be before Dec 31. I think NY and NJ.
I never heard of Governments that did not allow taxes to be paid early. How stupid is that? Free money for the coffers early, less I terest to pay, etc.

OTOH, can you imagine the chaos in Property Tax Offices this week?

In terms of overall benefits of Tax Reform, the simpler the better. Which means less or fewer different kinds of deductions, which would be the case here.
In terms of specific application, consider examples of 2 different taxpayers. 1 is similar to you, or even barely had a benefit of itemizing. 2 is carrying a Million Dollar home. The standard deduction and personal exemptions were raised, one of them doubled - that is for everybody, regardless of Income bracket. By trading an increased Universal deduction and exemptions with elimination of property tax deductible, which party gets the greater benefit? How about a family with one house but more kids? Or somebody not owning property? Those benefitting the greatest from property tax deductible were likely higher income, with more property values. The hard working shlub did not benefit as much, if at all.


That certainly sounds reasonable... but unfortunately I don't see anything aobout either one of them doubling. That would mean either an increase of the personal exemption from $4050 to $8100 or an increase of the standard deduction from $6350 to $12,700.

The current combined total is $4050 + $6350, or $10,400.

The article I'm reading says that both will be combined into a single larger standard deduction of $12,000. So... not really a double at all since it eliminates the personal exemption. Just an increase of $1,600 for a single filer. A larger increase than normal years, so good for me since I use it, but not really all that great.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12


Chances are that most low income earners wouldn't come close to being able to itemize at $12k if they were before. If nothing changes for me, almost my entire paycheck next year will be under that $12k cap. Whatever isn't I'll likely put into an IRA to avoid any taxes.

Thanks for that linky, I had only been going by what people said.
Property taxes likely did not affect, or help the poorest.
Let's assume that linky is accurate, and run some numbers.

Single, with income 21,520. In 2018 Tax would be $952. In 2017 Tax was $1203. With 1 non-spouse dependent $707. But that wage is $10/hr for 40 hour weeks the whole year, no other income.

Income 50,700. 2018 -> $4,456. 2017 -> $5,814. +1 dependent -> $5,039. +2 dependent -> $4,432.

Income 94,500. 2018 -> $14,092. 2017 -> $16,764. +1 -> $15,752. +2 -> $14,739.

Income 169,500. 2018 -> $32,092. 2017 -> $37,536. +1 -> $36,562.: +2 -> $35,588. +3 -> $34,614. +4 -> $33,640. +5 -> $32,666.

In 2018 there are no extra deductions for each dependent, other than spouse.
Looks like taxpayers with 1 or 0 kids are getting a Tax cut. Mostly due to the reduced Tax Rate in each bracket, plus the expansion of brackets.
I might cry for you if you make $100 too much and have to pay $10 in Tax.


On face value, this definitely doesn't seem to be the horror show that some people were claiming it was. Any word yet on what the 2019 situation forward is going to look like? I don't want to be saying everything is a-okay when we've been duped by a good first year trojan horse.

lol... I still don't believe that the single guy without kids is getting a tax break. This sounds waaaaaaay too good to be true. Since when does Government reward responsibility?

Do you know anything about EIC in 2018? Do single parents with 4 kids now make 3 times as much as I do instead of only twice as much for the same job?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I only got data from the link you gave.
Maybe Tax Cut is too confusing. I meant pay increase.




lol... I don't think you understood my question. Taxes and money in general is my bag. It's not too confusing to me.

I'm just wondering if you have heard about how the EIC will be handled after this all changes. It was based before off how how many dependents you had and your income. Since you won't be able to claim dependents anymore, I'm wondering how this is going to be handled. It was never really a big deal for me since as a single guy it was always pretty minimal, but this could have a huge impact (negative or positive) for quite a few single parents I know making near minimum wage.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, January 1, 2018 12:27 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Looks like the EIC will still be in effect. I don't know how much it changes though, since I never really paid all that much attention other than filing for the pittance I got. The cap for an individual without kids seems on par with what it used to be.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-income-tax-c
redit/eitc-income-limits-maximum-credit-amounts-next-year


So I guess even though you're not claiming dependents, you're still claiming dependents.



I do like this, although I don't know if it is passed in the bill:

Quote:

If the Trump administration’s America First budget plan for 2018 ever gets approved as proposed, anyone claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) or the Child Tax Credit (CTC) would face a new requirement: They must have a Social Security number and be legally authorized to work in the U.S.


http://fileyourtaxesnow.com/2018-earned-income-tax-credit-eitc/

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, January 1, 2018 8:53 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Looks like the EIC will still be in effect. I don't know how much it changes though, since I never really paid all that much attention other than filing for the pittance I got. The cap for an individual without kids seems on par with what it used to be.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-income-tax-c
redit/eitc-income-limits-maximum-credit-amounts-next-year


So I guess even though you're not claiming dependents, you're still claiming dependents.



I do like this, although I don't know if it is passed in the bill:

Quote:

If the Trump administration’s America First budget plan for 2018 ever gets approved as proposed, anyone claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) or the Child Tax Credit (CTC) would face a new requirement: They must have a Social Security number and be legally authorized to work in the U.S.


http://fileyourtaxesnow.com/2018-earned-income-tax-credit-eitc/

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I have not seen this. So working people get no deduction for kids, but pothead couch potato gamers get paid to not work based on how many kids they have?
Not sure of the wisdom there.

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Tuesday, January 2, 2018 7:27 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Looks like the EIC will still be in effect. I don't know how much it changes though, since I never really paid all that much attention other than filing for the pittance I got. The cap for an individual without kids seems on par with what it used to be.

https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-income-tax-c
redit/eitc-income-limits-maximum-credit-amounts-next-year


So I guess even though you're not claiming dependents, you're still claiming dependents.



I do like this, although I don't know if it is passed in the bill:

Quote:

If the Trump administration’s America First budget plan for 2018 ever gets approved as proposed, anyone claiming the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) or the Child Tax Credit (CTC) would face a new requirement: They must have a Social Security number and be legally authorized to work in the U.S.


http://fileyourtaxesnow.com/2018-earned-income-tax-credit-eitc/

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I have not seen this. So working people get no deduction for kids, but pothead couch potato gamers get paid to not work based on how many kids they have?
Not sure of the wisdom there.



No. The EIC means "Earned Income Credit". Social Security, Unemployment and other forms of welfare do not constitute "earned" income. Though this credit is essentially a hidden form of welfare that nobody talks about, but at least it only goes to people who hold a job.

I've talked about it in here before. My gripe with it is that somebody with 3-4 kids working the level of jobs I've had in the last 5 or so years essentially gets paid double what I do for the same job, subsidized by taxpayer dollars. What really adds insult to injury is that anybody I've known that gets it doesn't work half as hard as I do either. But really, hardly anybody I've ever worked with is at my level.

My EIC this year will be roughly $115. I've gotten as much as $400 one year... you really have to hit the sweet spot. There is a whole EIC table in the tax booklet if you want to know more. I don't know how long they've been doing this, but it's been at least 15 or more years.

When I was working at Satan's Asshole, aka KMart, I knew people who couldn't wait for tax day because of that $12,000 check they were getting from the government.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 2, 2018 10:47 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
For one in two Americans, those in the bottom half of the income pile, income actually shrank on Reagan’s watch. In 1980, the year he was elected, they earned $16,371 a year on average, in today’s dollars, according to the World Wealth and Income Database. By 1988, Reagan’s last year in office, they had to make do with $16,268.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/26/business/eco
nomy/tax-cuts-incomes.html

T

Well Shazaam! That must be why he was reelected in a landslide, which Democraps have never seen with their party.
Perhaps you could provide a reliable, credible news source, instead of hanging your hat on The Libtard's Gospel.

I am unable to navigate that wid database.
Can you tell me the numbers they use for 1981, 1982, 1983 - the end of the devastating Carter Economy?
Six, could you help getting those numbers?

I tried to poke around that WID site, never found any page, report, data grid which showed the numbers that the NYT Libtard (I know, redundant) spouted. Perhaps he just made them up, holding to the high journalistic standards of the Times. Or maybe somebody could find a report from that site with those numbers present, and post a link for that specific page.

Otherwise, I did get a report from that site, for pre-tax income, bottom 50% of earners, in 2016 constant $.
It shows 1980 as $11,502. And 1988 as $12,504.
That right there suggests that not only did the Times just make stuff up, they also lied in the most dishonest and biased way, stating the opposite of what the data shows.
That looks like approximately 9% increase in annual income from 1980 to 1988, an 8 year span, or about 1% per year.

But more pertinently, the data which was avoided shows a fuller picture.
In 1981 it was $11,518.
In 1982 it was $10,888.
1983: $10,839.
1984: $11,453.
1985: $11,693.
1986: $11,762.
1987: $12,094.

First, Reagan had to stop and reverse the runaway downward spiral of the disastrous Carter Economy. That bottomed in 1983, with a loss of about $700 since 1980, or about 6% in 3 years - which is 2% average loss per year.
Then Reagan grew it, an increase of about $1,700 or about 15% in a span of 5 years, or about 3% each year.

Yet again, Libtard Delusions bow to the reality of real numbers.

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Wednesday, January 3, 2018 5:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

"CLEARLY, you don't give a crap about being laid off or eking out a living as a free-lancer. My guess is that you're working in your daddy's company in a comfy middle-management niche where you can while away the hours posting on Firefly and endlessly checking your Twitter feed. But be that as it may ... "

Does that jog your *memory* at all? Care to apologize for your blatant lying? Care to own your BULLSHIT now? Ever?- GSTRING

OF COURSE I remember saying that you didn't WORK for a living. Said it more than once, you stupid slug. But what DIDN'T happen ... the part where you said
Quote:

Um, Granny? We already had this conversation and I already corrected your intended insults ("Daddy's business...") ...


Well, you didn't. You didn't "correct" my intended insults. What you said was

Quote:

My "daddy" is dead btw.- GSTRING
Well, of course he is!
That's how you inherited his business!


Please, RE-READ YOUR ENTIRE LIST OF STUPID POSTS. Nowhere in there is a denial of your elite inheritance and your comfy non-productive niche; in fact, it reads more like a confirmation. So this "conversation" where you "corrected" my "insults"?

NEVER HAPPENED, you lying piece of shit.

And, wow. I can't believe you keep flogging this particular lie of yours, dredging up old posts and old threads of yours that undercut your own point. You've clearly got some sort of mental deficit: not only can't you tell evidence from accusation, you can't distinguish truth from lies or reality from fiction. And I should stop picking on the mentally disabled ... and yanno, if you were just STUPID I wouldn't be this harsh .... but you're such a TROLL. Not only do you have some sort of intellectual incapacity, you're a LYING ASSHOLE. Your outright lies have been demonstrated over and over again, this is just the latest. So stop lying and stop being an asshole, and I'll stop pointing it out.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Wednesday, January 3, 2018 8:28 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
LINKS PLEASE?

You may have inherited your daddy's money, but none of his smarts, because you attempted to pull off a really stupid lie by saying that "We already had this conversation". No, son, we didn't. So either YOUR memory is bad, or you're a liar. I vote "liar".


Hey, $IGNYM FRAUD, lookie what I found from Dec 5th - I told you you tried that sh*t before:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62106&mid=1
042482#1042482


"CLEARLY, you don't give a crap about being laid off or eking out a living as a free-lancer. My guess is that you're working in your daddy's company in a comfy middle-management niche where you can while away the hours posting on Firefly and endlessly checking your Twitter feed. But be that as it may ... "

Does that jog your *memory* at all? Care to apologize for your blatant lying? Care to own your BULLSHIT now? Ever?

I doubt it! But I look forward to you embarrassing yourself with the upcoming dodges, BS rationals and further Trump level lies.

Say, G? The conversations in your head don't really count as valid conversations, m'kay pumpkin?

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Wednesday, January 3, 2018 12:03 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Um, Granny? We already had this conversation and I already corrected your intended insults ("Daddy's business...") ...
Where did you "correct" my "insults"?

Are you not wealthy?
Did you not get your wealth, and your comfy niche, by inheritance?
Are you not completely untroubled by the un- and underemployment problem of most Americans?
Do you not spend much of your time ... time when MOST Americans who have a job MUST be working .... trolling on fff.net and engaged with social media? (And, no, posting on fff.net isn't tolerated in workplaces unless you have a sinecure.)

Did you post a denial, limitation, or correction to any of those suppositions?

No?

Well then, you didn't "correct" anything, did you?

This part of the thread is unbelievably stupid, and I think the problem is at your end. So until you come up with an actual meaningful response, I'm going to bow out.

AND NOW, BACK TO OUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED TOPIC ....



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Wednesday, January 3, 2018 12:38 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Did you post a denial, limitation, or correction to any of those suppositions? No? - SIGNY

Yes - you must be deaf, dumb and blind:

"So you can't deflect with it again:

I'm definitely not rich, not financially by any definition. I spent most of my life dead ass broke, kinda like Jack. Any inheritance from "daddy" went first to my deadbeat brother (more than a decade without trying to work) and second to take care of my mom - something any intelligent person who genuinely cared and not "fake cared" would have been able to deduce.

As a point of curiosity: How? You spend 99% of your posts here insulting and trolling. As YOU YOURSELF said, you don't post a lot about yourself. Apparently, I missed the one post where you mentioned something about taking care of your mom. (Assuming that you're not lying about that too.)

Quote:

Especially someone with a health concern in their own family. That's not you in either case though, is it?"- GSTRING
FINALLY! Very late in the day .... and way past the time when you claimed to have "corrected" my posts .... you finally produce a salient post!

So, no son, we DIDN'T "have this conversation". Timelines not your thing? An after-the-fact correction is still after-the-fact. And, as I do with some of your posts, I guess I missed this one. Well gosh, whip me with a wet noodle.

Quote:

This conversation in unbelievably stupid, and I think the problem is at your end. So until you come up with an actual meaningful response, I'm going to bow out.- SIGNY

Yes, it's incredibly stupid. "I" lied and were caught and then trolled to deflect from "my" grotesque wealth and now "I" will runaway. - GSTRING



So, you're not wealthy "financially", and yet you spend all hours of the day trolling on Firefly, and you apparently think that the employment situation here in the USA is A-OK? You have NO IDEA about the difficulty of finding and keeping a decent-paying full time job? You have no idea that a record number of children are living with mom and dad? Where have you been hiding? Under a rock?

Quote:

Oh yeah.... stepping around your steaming pile of SIGNMY deflection droppings... you still haven't told us about your massive stock pile of wealth - why is that? I would imagine someone as full of themselves as you is having a hard time NOT telling us how great your investment strategies have been. Just let it go, be proud - celebrate you wise investments and superior knowledge and share with us. - GSTRING
As you've pointed out, I post a lot about myself, and I've already touched on this: We worked hard at technical jobs- one in university and one in government, very safe jobs but not extremely well-paid - and saved like maniacs for the time when we would die and our daughter would be on her own. We made less money together than a successful doctor would make on his or her own in this area. Some of our investments did great, some of them not so much. We're neither rich nor poor, and definitely not 1%. Maybe more like top 20% - there are an awful lot of very wealthy people in LA County, and we're definitely not one of them.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, January 4, 2018 7:36 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Get a room, you two.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, January 4, 2018 8:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Apparently, I missed the one post where you mentioned something about taking care of your mom. (Assuming that you're not lying about that too.) - SIGNY

Goddamn - are you lying about your Daughter? You keep rolling out the passive aggressive insults and I'll keep flinging them back in your face, a-wipe.- GSTRGING

Passive? Who says I'm being passive?
heh heh heh

Quote:

And, as I do with some of your posts, I guess I missed this one. Well gosh, whip me with a wet noodle.- SIGNY

OR you could not call someone a liar when you haven't read their posts? Duh?= GSTRING

I wasn't calling you a liar because of that post, I was calling you a liar because you CLAIMED to have "corrected" me already, you CLAIMED that "we had this conversation already" and yet ... wow, nowhere to be found! So please, try to stop lying about what I posted, and do try keep up with what's been explained several times already!

Quote:

So, you're not wealthy "financially", and yet you spend all hours of the day trolling on Firefly..."- SIGNY

If I do, then you spend 72 hours in one day - you post more than anyone but Jack. Takes 2 minutes to roll my eyes and reply to your BS.- GSTRING

When then, you're clearly not READING or THINKING ABOUT what you reply to because, as you said, my posts can be pretty long. So all you're doing, by your own admission, is insulting me automatically. In other words, trolling. But, we already knew that!

Quote:

... and you apparently think that the employment situation here in the USA is A-OK?"- SIGNY

Yep, there are tons of jobs out there if you want one.- GSTRINGi

You have NO IDEA about the difficulty of finding and keeping a decent-paying full time job?" - SIGNY

Not first hand, I haven't had to look for work in decades. I must be a valued employee.- GSTRING



You make a mockery of everyone who is struggling to find work that they can actually live on? From your comfy niche where none of this has any impact on you?

Please, don't EVER pretend to care about ordinary Americans ever again! You CLEARLY have no idea what's happening to the country and you certainly haven't bothered to find out because you obviously don't care about anyone but yourself, you smug self-satisfied jerk

Quote:

You have no idea that a record number of children are living with mom and dad?- SIGNY
Cites please - GSTRING

Seriously? YOUR memory must be failing! Or you're lying again. It was a pretty long conversation about what constitutes "employment". Okay, son, I'll dig it up.

Quote:

As you've pointed out, I post a lot about myself, and I've already touched on this: We worked hard at technical jobs- one in university and one in government, very safe jobs but not extremely well-paid - and saved like maniacs for the time when we would die and our daughter would be on her own. We made less money together than a successful doctor would make on his or her own in this area. Some of our investments did great, some of them not so much. We're neither rich nor poor, and definitely not 1%. Maybe more like top 20% - there are an awful lot of very wealthy people in LA County, and we're definitely not one of them.- SIGNY

Who cares what you make - you're a lying @sshole - that's what matters.

Says the liar. The one who's been caught lying many times already, twice on this page alone. So now you reference your apocryphal "sick mother" who you CLAIM to have posted about already but whom I certainly don't remember reading about. So, yanno ... LINKS PLEASE. If you really posted it, you should be able to find it again.




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, January 4, 2018 12:23 PM

THGRRI






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Thursday, January 4, 2018 2:03 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Seriously? YOUR memory must be failing! Or you're lying again. It was a pretty long conversation about what constitutes "employment". Okay, son, I'll dig it up. - SIGNY

What?!?!? All that phony righteous outrage and YOU DON'T KNOW???? hahahahahah geezus, stop typing.- GSTRING



Here ya go, son, your impressions about the employment situation in America, in all it's ignorant glory.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62106&mid=1
042742#1042742


So, all that phony righteous outrage and YOU DON'T KNOW???? About YOUR OWN POST?? hahahahahah geezus, stop typing!






-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Thursday, January 4, 2018 4:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow... is that true JSF?

That's not something I read before. I certainly don't see how that benefits the working class at all.)

I heard the news report that 2 States had their Governors sign urgent quick laws to allow their residents to pay their property tax early, so it could be before Dec 31. I think NY and NJ.
I never heard of Governments that did not allow taxes to be paid early. How stupid is that? Free money for the coffers early, less I terest to pay, etc.

OTOH, can you imagine the chaos in Property Tax Offices this week?

In terms of overall benefits of Tax Reform, the simpler the better. Which means less or fewer different kinds of deductions, which would be the case here.
In terms of specific application, consider examples of 2 different taxpayers. 1 is similar to you, or even barely had a benefit of itemizing. 2 is carrying a Million Dollar home. The standard deduction and personal exemptions were raised, one of them doubled - that is for everybody, regardless of Income bracket. By trading an increased Universal deduction and exemptions with elimination of property tax deductible, which party gets the greater benefit? How about a family with one house but more kids? Or somebody not owning property? Those benefitting the greatest from property tax deductible were likely higher income, with more property values. The hard working shlub did not benefit as much, if at all.


That certainly sounds reasonable... but unfortunately I don't see anything aobout either one of them doubling. That would mean either an increase of the personal exemption from $4050 to $8100 or an increase of the standard deduction from $6350 to $12,700.

The current combined total is $4050 + $6350, or $10,400.

The article I'm reading says that both will be combined into a single larger standard deduction of $12,000. So... not really a double at all since it eliminates the personal exemption. Just an increase of $1,600 for a single filer. A larger increase than normal years, so good for me since I use it, but not really all that great.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12


Chances are that most low income earners wouldn't come close to being able to itemize at $12k if they were before. If nothing changes for me, almost my entire paycheck next year will be under that $12k cap. Whatever isn't I'll likely put into an IRA to avoid any taxes.

Thanks for that linky, I had only been going by what people said.
Property taxes likely did not affect, or help the poorest.
Let's assume that linky is accurate, and run some numbers.

Single, with income 21,520. In 2018 Tax would be $952. In 2017 Tax was $1203. With 1 non-spouse dependent $707. But that wage is $10/hr for 40 hour weeks the whole year, no other income.

Income 50,700. 2018 -> $4,456. 2017 -> $5,814. +1 dependent -> $5,039. +2 dependent -> $4,432.

Income 94,500. 2018 -> $14,092. 2017 -> $16,764. +1 -> $15,752. +2 -> $14,739.

Income 169,500. 2018 -> $32,092. 2017 -> $37,536. +1 -> $36,562.: +2 -> $35,588. +3 -> $34,614. +4 -> $33,640. +5 -> $32,666.

In 2018 there are no extra deductions for each dependent, other than spouse.
Looks like taxpayers with 1 or 0 kids are getting a Tax cut. Mostly due to the reduced Tax Rate in each bracket, plus the expansion of brackets.
I might cry for you if you make $100 too much and have to pay $10 in Tax.



On face value, this definitely doesn't seem to be the horror show that some people were claiming it was. Any word yet on what the 2019 situation forward is going to look like? I don't want to be saying everything is a-okay when we've been duped by a good first year trojan horse.

lol... I still don't believe that the single guy without kids is getting a tax break. This sounds waaaaaaay too good to be true. Since when does Government reward responsibility?

Do you know anything about EIC in 2018? Do single parents with 4 kids now make 3 times as much as I do instead of only twice as much for the same job?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

If you find and post a link for the 2019 Tax brackets as they stand now, I will run some numbers for you, as time allows.
The incomes I used above were at the thresholds of the new brackets, so the results between my examples should fairly run predictably. Let me know if there are other specific income examples you would want.

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Thursday, January 4, 2018 8:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow... is that true JSF?

That's not something I read before. I certainly don't see how that benefits the working class at all.)

I heard the news report that 2 States had their Governors sign urgent quick laws to allow their residents to pay their property tax early, so it could be before Dec 31. I think NY and NJ.
I never heard of Governments that did not allow taxes to be paid early. How stupid is that? Free money for the coffers early, less I terest to pay, etc.

OTOH, can you imagine the chaos in Property Tax Offices this week?

In terms of overall benefits of Tax Reform, the simpler the better. Which means less or fewer different kinds of deductions, which would be the case here.
In terms of specific application, consider examples of 2 different taxpayers. 1 is similar to you, or even barely had a benefit of itemizing. 2 is carrying a Million Dollar home. The standard deduction and personal exemptions were raised, one of them doubled - that is for everybody, regardless of Income bracket. By trading an increased Universal deduction and exemptions with elimination of property tax deductible, which party gets the greater benefit? How about a family with one house but more kids? Or somebody not owning property? Those benefitting the greatest from property tax deductible were likely higher income, with more property values. The hard working shlub did not benefit as much, if at all.


That certainly sounds reasonable... but unfortunately I don't see anything aobout either one of them doubling. That would mean either an increase of the personal exemption from $4050 to $8100 or an increase of the standard deduction from $6350 to $12,700.

The current combined total is $4050 + $6350, or $10,400.

The article I'm reading says that both will be combined into a single larger standard deduction of $12,000. So... not really a double at all since it eliminates the personal exemption. Just an increase of $1,600 for a single filer. A larger increase than normal years, so good for me since I use it, but not really all that great.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12


Chances are that most low income earners wouldn't come close to being able to itemize at $12k if they were before. If nothing changes for me, almost my entire paycheck next year will be under that $12k cap. Whatever isn't I'll likely put into an IRA to avoid any taxes.

Thanks for that linky, I had only been going by what people said.
Property taxes likely did not affect, or help the poorest.
Let's assume that linky is accurate, and run some numbers.

Single, with income 21,520. In 2018 Tax would be $952. In 2017 Tax was $1203. With 1 non-spouse dependent $707. But that wage is $10/hr for 40 hour weeks the whole year, no other income.

Income 50,700. 2018 -> $4,456. 2017 -> $5,814. +1 dependent -> $5,039. +2 dependent -> $4,432.

Income 94,500. 2018 -> $14,092. 2017 -> $16,764. +1 -> $15,752. +2 -> $14,739.

Income 169,500. 2018 -> $32,092. 2017 -> $37,536. +1 -> $36,562.: +2 -> $35,588. +3 -> $34,614. +4 -> $33,640. +5 -> $32,666.

In 2018 there are no extra deductions for each dependent, other than spouse.
Looks like taxpayers with 1 or 0 kids are getting a Tax cut. Mostly due to the reduced Tax Rate in each bracket, plus the expansion of brackets.
I might cry for you if you make $100 too much and have to pay $10 in Tax.



On face value, this definitely doesn't seem to be the horror show that some people were claiming it was. Any word yet on what the 2019 situation forward is going to look like? I don't want to be saying everything is a-okay when we've been duped by a good first year trojan horse.

lol... I still don't believe that the single guy without kids is getting a tax break. This sounds waaaaaaay too good to be true. Since when does Government reward responsibility?

Do you know anything about EIC in 2018? Do single parents with 4 kids now make 3 times as much as I do instead of only twice as much for the same job?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

If you find and post a link for the 2019 Tax brackets as they stand now, I will run some numbers for you, as time allows.
The incomes I used above were at the thresholds of the new brackets, so the results between my examples should fairly run predictably. Let me know if there are other specific income examples you would want.



I don't think you can find any tax tables for 2018 yet. They usually don't print them that far in advance. (A google search shows plenty results for articles saying what the brackets will be, but no actual tables provided by the IRS).

I only asked because I've heard a few articles saying that the first year wasn't bad, but after that it got worse. But you know my trust in the media. I hate thinking I have to wait over a year before I can make my own mind up about it though.

It looks like the EIC welfare program doesn't change much.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, January 5, 2018 6:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Well, apparently GSTRING has no memory of what it posted just short while ago.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62106&mid=1
042742#1042742

Is GSTRING a synthetic troll?

Maybe we have been posting to a synthetic "bot" all along ... a set of programmed responses and pre-programmed phrases designed by the NSA for political purposes? That would explain its lack of human background. For example, it's "sick mother" for which it can find no previous posted citation.

Whatever the case, GSTRING is remarkably inept.






-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Friday, January 5, 2018 9:50 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12

]Thanks for that linky, I had only been going by what people said.
Property taxes likely did not affect, or help the poorest.
Let's assume that linky is accurate, and run some numbers.

Single, with income 21,520. In 2018 Tax would be $952. In 2017 Tax was $1203. With 1 non-spouse dependent $707. But that wage is $10/hr for 40 hour weeks the whole year, no other income.

Income 50,700. 2018 -> $4,456. 2017 -> $5,814. +1 dependent -> $5,039. +2 dependent -> $4,432.

Income 94,500. 2018 -> $14,092. 2017 -> $16,764. +1 -> $15,752. +2 -> $14,739.

Income 169,500. 2018 -> $32,092. 2017 -> $37,536. +1 -> $36,562.: +2 -> $35,588. +3 -> $34,614. +4 -> $33,640. +5 -> $32,666.

In 2018 there are no extra deductions for each dependent, other than spouse.
Looks like taxpayers with 1 or 0 kids are getting a Tax cut. Mostly due to the reduced Tax Rate in each bracket, plus the expansion of brackets.
I might cry for you if you make $100 too much and have to pay $10 in Tax.

On face value, this definitely doesn't seem to be the horror show that some people were claiming it was. Any word yet on what the 2019 situation forward is going to look like? I don't want to be saying everything is a-okay when we've been duped by a good first year trojan horse.

lol... I still don't believe that the single guy without kids is getting a tax break. This sounds waaaaaaay too good to be true. Since when does Government reward responsibility?

Do you know anything about EIC in 2018? Do single parents with 4 kids now make 3 times as much as I do instead of only twice as much for the same job?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

If you find and post a link for the 2019 Tax brackets as they stand now, I will run some numbers for you, as time allows.
The incomes I used above were at the thresholds of the new brackets, so the results between my examples should fairly run predictably. Let me know if there are other specific income examples you would want.

I don't think you can find any tax tables for 2018 yet. They usually don't print them that far in advance. (A google search shows plenty results for articles saying what the brackets will be, but no actual tables provided by the IRS).

I only asked because I've heard a few articles saying that the first year wasn't bad, but after that it got worse. But you know my trust in the media. I hate thinking I have to wait over a year before I can make my own mind up about it though.

It looks like the EIC welfare program doesn't change much.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

If you post a link to the brackets that you consider valid, that is good enough for me. They are already part of existing law - of course subject to change. But it will give us an idea of what the landscape and roadmap is as of now.

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Friday, January 5, 2018 10:09 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
If you post a link to the brackets that you consider valid, that is good enough for me. They are already part of existing law - of course subject to change. But it will give us an idea of what the landscape and roadmap is as of now.



https://taxfoundation.org/2018-tax-brackets/

That's for 2018. Pretty much what we were talking about. Though this link is nice because it shows the AMT and EIC brackets as well.

I'm wondering what they are going to be for 2019. I've heard some people here complain that it is worse for the working class in 2019, but I don't see any evidence of that because I can't find anything on it.


NOTE: Anybody looking at those tables should keep in mind that for the tax brackets you need to add $12,000 to the numbers for a single filer, 18,000 for head of household and $24,000 for married filing jointly before the taxes kick in.

For instance, a single person making $24,524.99 or less doesn't pay a dime in Federal Income Tax. (However, they're still royally screwed from the first penny to the last on the SSI/Medicare taxes, of 7.65% for employees, and 15.30% for self employed. Just look at it as 15.30% for everybody. Your employer does.)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, January 5, 2018 5:19 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
If you post a link to the brackets that you consider valid, that is good enough for me. They are already part of existing law - of course subject to change. But it will give us an idea of what the landscape and roadmap is as of now.


https://taxfoundation.org/2018-tax-brackets/

That's for 2018. Pretty much what we were talking about. Though this link is nice because it shows the AMT and EIC brackets as well.

I'm wondering what they are going to be for 2019. I've heard some people here complain that it is worse for the working class in 2019, but I don't see any evidence of that because I can't find anything on it.


NOTE: Anybody looking at those tables should keep in mind that for the tax brackets you need to add $12,000 to the numbers for a single filer, 18,000 for head of household and $24,000 for married filing jointly before the taxes kick in.

For instance, a single person making $24,524.99 or less doesn't pay a dime in Federal Income Tax. (However, they're still royally screwed from the first penny to the last on the SSI/Medicare taxes, of 7.65% for employees, and 15.30% for self employed. Just look at it as 15.30% for everybody. Your employer does.)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

The exact dollar amount of the tax tables likely must wait for the inflation calculation a Year from now. But if we know there are fundamental differences in the bracket structure, I can work site that, for purposes of comparison.

I get better search results from duckduckgo.com for this. The hits from savingtoinvest.com seem clearer.

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Friday, January 5, 2018 8:50 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Do you have any for 2019? I can't find any.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 7:19 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Wow...

Major correction needed here. I can't believe nobody called me out on this.

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

NOTE: Anybody looking at those tables should keep in mind that for the tax brackets you need to add $12,000 to the numbers for a single filer, 18,000 for head of household and $24,000 for married filing jointly before the taxes kick in.

For instance, a single person making $24,524.99 or less doesn't pay a dime in Federal Income Tax. (However, they're still royally screwed from the first penny to the last on the SSI/Medicare taxes, of 7.65% for employees, and 15.30% for self employed. Just look at it as 15.30% for everybody. Your employer does.)




HUGE brainfart on that underlined part.

A single person making $11,999.99 or under doesn't pay a dime. After that, it's 10%. Once that same person hits $25,000, everything they make above $25k will be hit with an additional 2%.

If you're making enough to get hit with 22% (above $50,700 for a single filer), save as much of that as you can because you never know when you're going to lose that nice job. You should also be sheltering as much of it as possible in 401ks, IRAs and HSAs as you can.


Sure... you'd get hit with a 10% fine if you take it out early, but even anything you put in above $12k a year you avoid 10% in federal taxes so it's even. If you're putting money in to dodge 22% you're actually making 12% when you take it out (assuming you take it out when you no longer have that job and your income is low or non-existant).

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 8:51 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow...

Major correction needed here. I can't believe nobody called me out on this.

Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

NOTE: Anybody looking at those tables should keep in mind that for the tax brackets you need to add $12,000 to the numbers for a single filer, 18,000 for head of household and $24,000 for married filing jointly before the taxes kick in.

For instance, a single person making $24,524.99 or less doesn't pay a dime in Federal Income Tax. (However, they're still royally screwed from the first penny to the last on the SSI/Medicare taxes, of 7.65% for employees, and 15.30% for self employed. Just look at it as 15.30% for everybody. Your employer does.)




HUGE brainfart on that underlined part.

A single person making $11,999.99 or under doesn't pay a dime. After that, it's 10%. Once that same person hits $25,000, everything they make above $25k will be hit with an additional 2%.

If you're making enough to get hit with 22% (above $50,700 for a single filer), save as much of that as you can because you never know when you're going to lose that nice job. You should also be sheltering as much of it as possible in 401ks, IRAs and HSAs as you can.


Sure... you'd get hit with a 10% fine if you take it out early, but even anything you put in above $12k a year you avoid 10% in federal taxes so it's even. If you're putting money in to dodge 22% you're actually making 12% when you take it out (assuming you take it out when you no longer have that job and your income is low or non-existant).

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I saw that and wondered... But didn't look up the chart.
Making $12,000 still gets you Zero Tax.
Then 10% on each dollar above 12,000 up to 21,525.
Another 2% on each dollar above 21,526 up to 50,700.

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 10:12 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Yup. I don't know what I was thinking. I know it was because of how the table was presented and how my brain mistakenly interpreted it. Saw it with a fresh pair of eyes this morning when I was going to reply to you in the DOW thread and thought "WTF? I can't believe nobody shot me down on that yet."

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 10:19 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


If you're in the 10% bracket and have access to a 401k and a company match, and can afford to, you really should put the money in there. Even if it just sits there doing nothing in a safe fund.

The 10% you dodge would cancel out the 10% penalty, so you would immediately get whatever percentage that the company matches, which in almost any case should be a multitude greater than any savings account or even a CD where you're really locked in.


At 22%, it's a no brainer. Sure, not only would you have to pay a 10% penalty on top of the 22% income tax if you took it out at a later date while you still had the same job, but if you lose that job you'll have the money to draw under $12k as income you won't be taxed on and it will just be the 10% penalty, netting you a 12% return plus your company match.

Also, if you've never used it before even if you've bought a house, you can take up to $10k one single time in your life out of a 401k/IRA penalty free to purchase a home under the "First Time Homeowner" clause.

It's really a good idea to always put in what your company will match, so long as you're making more than the deductible/exemption and you can afford to do so. No other investment in this current economy has such safe and reliable returns or possibilities.

(NOTE: The above statement is only if you don't gamble with it. You're on your own if you do that. My investment advice is only for putting it somewhere safe, in a low bearing fund. The closer to zero, the better.)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 1:16 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
If you're in the 10% bracket and have access to a 401k and a company match, and can afford to, you really should put the money in there. Even if it just sits there doing nothing in a safe fund.

The 10% you dodge would cancel out the 10% penalty, so you would immediately get whatever percentage that the company matches, which in almost any case should be a multitude greater than any savings account or even a CD where you're really locked in.


At 22%, it's a no brainer. Sure, not only would you have to pay a 10% penalty on top of the 22% income tax if you took it out at a later date while you still had the same job, but if you lose that job you'll have the money to draw under $12k as income you won't be taxed on and it will just be the 10% penalty, netting you a 12% return plus your company match.

Also, if you've never used it before even if you've bought a house, you can take up to $10k one single time in your life out of a 401k/IRA penalty free to purchase a home under the "First Time Homeowner" clause.

It's really a good idea to always put in what your company will match, so long as you're making more than the deductible/exemption and you can afford to do so. No other investment in this current economy has such safe and reliable returns or possibilities.

(NOTE: The above statement is only if you don't gamble with it. You're on your own if you do that. My investment advice is only for putting it somewhere safe, in a low bearing fund. The closer to zero, the better.)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Glad you agree.

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Sunday, January 7, 2018 7:21 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Well... not sure that agree is the word.

I agree that you should use your 401k as a savings account, that's about it.

There's far too much market manipulation out there to actually say that investing is a good idea for anybody. That's actually something that you and Second agree on.

I don't care what historical values were. Everything is far too unpredictable today and the rules to the game are always being changed by the rich who are really the only sure winners in the end.

I'd give anybody the same advice about investing as I would playing slots on the Boat. Go ahead and have your fun if you aren't prone to a gambling addiction and it's with money you can afford to gamble.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, January 8, 2018 1:34 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Do you have any for 2019? I can't find any.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

at taxfoundation.org I did a search for "2019 Tax bracket" and found a link for full analysis of the Reform bill. There is a full report PDF which I cannot see. It also says property taxes are allowed with state, local taxes for combined $10k limit. See if they ou can find brackets in that PDF.

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Monday, January 8, 2018 8:24 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I'm not finding what you're talking about. You'd have to tell me the article title maybe?

I did see this: https://taxfoundation.org/conference-report-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act/

About above the line deductions:

Quote:

Repeals the moving expense deduction (except for active duty military personnel) and eliminates the alimony deduction effective 2019 (though those receiving alimony no longer count it as income). Retains other above-the-line deductions, including educator expenses and student loan interest. Graduate student tuition waivers also remain in place.


The poor schmucks that have to pay alimony will now have to pay Federal Tax on it to add insult and injury to insult and injury. But the ones sitting on their ass doing nothing for the money won't have to pay income tax on it anymore. Yay.

It also says this at the top:

Quote:

Here, then, are the major provisions of the conference committee report. All figures (both current law and conference report provisions) are for 2018. Most individual income tax changes will revert to current law after 2025 unless extended.


I don't know if that means that we'll go back to a standard deduction and personal exemption in 2025 or not.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 3:44 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm not finding what you're talking about. You'd have to tell me the article title maybe?

I did see this: https://taxfoundation.org/conference-report-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act/

About above the line deductions:

Quote:

Repeals the moving expense deduction (except for active duty military personnel) and eliminates the alimony deduction effective 2019 (though those receiving alimony no longer count it as income). Retains other above-the-line deductions, including educator expenses and student loan interest. Graduate student tuition waivers also remain in place.


The poor schmucks that have to pay alimony will now have to pay Federal Tax on it to add insult and injury to insult and injury. But the ones sitting on their ass doing nothing for the money won't have to pay income tax on it anymore. Yay.

It also says this at the top:

Quote:

Here, then, are the major provisions of the conference committee report. All figures (both current law and conference report provisions) are for 2018. Most individual income tax changes will revert to current law after 2025 unless extended.


I don't know if that means that we'll go back to a standard deduction and personal exemption in 2025 or not.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

the article was dated 19 Dec.

Final tax cuts jobs act details analysis

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Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:01 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm not finding what you're talking about. You'd have to tell me the article title maybe?

I did see this: https://taxfoundation.org/conference-report-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act/

About above the line deductions:

Quote:

Repeals the moving expense deduction (except for active duty military personnel) and eliminates the alimony deduction effective 2019 (though those receiving alimony no longer count it as income). Retains other above-the-line deductions, including educator expenses and student loan interest. Graduate student tuition waivers also remain in place.


The poor schmucks that have to pay alimony will now have to pay Federal Tax on it to add insult and injury to insult and injury. But the ones sitting on their ass doing nothing for the money won't have to pay income tax on it anymore. Yay.

It also says this at the top:

Quote:

Here, then, are the major provisions of the conference committee report. All figures (both current law and conference report provisions) are for 2018. Most individual income tax changes will revert to current law after 2025 unless extended.


I don't know if that means that we'll go back to a standard deduction and personal exemption in 2025 or not.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

the article was dated 19 Dec.

Final tax cuts jobs act details analysis

Did you find it?

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Thursday, January 11, 2018 10:32 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


The PDF is here: https://files.taxfoundation.org/20171220113959/TaxFoundation-SR241-TCJ
A-3.pdf


If you can't view it, might I suggest Firefox

I don't have time to read through it right now, but I don't see anything about 2019 brackets in there. Just what we already knew about 2018.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, January 11, 2018 6:19 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
The PDF is here: https://files.taxfoundation.org/20171220113959/TaxFoundation-SR241-TCJ
A-3.pdf


If you can't view it, might I suggest Firefox

I don't have time to read through it right now, but I don't see anything about 2019 brackets in there. Just what we already knew about 2018.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I don't think my phone can load that.

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Thursday, January 11, 2018 8:35 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Edited the linky.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, apparently GSTRING has no memory of what it posted just short while ago.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62106&mid=1
042742#1042742


Is GSTRING a synthetic troll?

Maybe we have been posting to a synthetic "bot" all along ... a set of programmed responses and pre-programmed phrases designed by the NSA for political purposes? That would explain its lack of human background. For example, it's "sick mother" for which it can find no previous posted citation.

Whatever the case, GSTRING is remarkably inept.
6


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Thursday, February 1, 2018 2:31 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow... is that true JSF?

That's not something I read before. I certainly don't see how that benefits the working class at all.)

I heard the news report that 2 States had their Governors sign urgent quick laws to allow their residents to pay their property tax early, so it could be before Dec 31. I think NY and NJ.
I never heard of Governments that did not allow taxes to be paid early. How stupid is that? Free money for the coffers early, less I terest to pay, etc.

OTOH, can you imagine the chaos in Property Tax Offices this week?

In terms of overall benefits of Tax Reform, the simpler the better. Which means less or fewer different kinds of deductions, by which would be the case here.
In terms of specific application, consider examples of 2 different taxpayers. 1 is similar to you, or even barely had a benefit of itemizing. 2 is carrying a Million Dollar home. The standard deduction and personal exemptions were raised, one of them doubled - that is for everybody, regardless of Income bracket. By trading an increased Universal deduction and exemptions with elimination of property tax deductible, which party gets the greater benefit? How about a family with one house but more kids? Or somebody not owning property? Those benefitting the greatest from property tax deductible were likely higher income, with more property values. The hard working shlub did not benefit as much, if at all.


That certainly sounds reasonable... but unfortunately I don't see anything aobout either one of them doubling. That would mean either an increase of the personal exemption from $4050 to $8100 or an increase of the standard deduction from $6350 to $12,700.

The current combined total is $4050 + $6350, or $10,400.

The article I'm reading says that both will be combined into a single larger standard deduction of $12,000. So... not really a double at all since it eliminates the personal exemption. Just an increase of $1,600 for a single filer. A larger increase than normal years, so good for me since I use it, but not really all that great.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tax-brackets-2018-trump-tax-plan-chart-
2017-12


Chances are that most low income earners wouldn't come close to being able to itemize at $12k if they were before. If nothing changes for me, almost my entire paycheck next year will be under that $12k cap. Whatever isn't I'll likely put into an IRA to avoid any taxes.

Thanks for that linky, I had only been going by what people said.
Property taxes likely did not affect, or help the poorest.
Let's assume that linky is accurate, and run some numbers.

Single, with income 21,520. In 2018 Tax would be $952. In 2017 Tax was $1203. With 1 non-spouse dependent $707. But that wage is $10/hr for 40 hour weeks the whole year, no other income.

Income 50,700. 2018 -> $4,456. 2017 -> $5,814. +1 dependent -> $5,039. +2 dependent -> $4,432.

Income 94,500. 2018 -> $14,092. 2017 -> $16,764. +1 -> $15,752. +2 -> $14,739.

Income 169,500. 2018 -> $32,092. 2017 -> $37,536. +1 -> $36,562.: +2 -> $35,588. +3 -> $34,614. +4 -> $33,640. +5 -> $32,666.

In 2018 there are no extra deductions for each dependent, other than spouse.
Looks like taxpayers with 1 or 0 kids are getting a Tax cut. Mostly due to the reduced Tax Rate in each bracket, plus the expansion of brackets.
I might cry for you if you make $100 too much and have to pay $10 in Tax.

This is what was repeated in SOTU, right?

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Thursday, February 1, 2018 5:17 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


What's SOTU? I might be having a brainfart here.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, February 1, 2018 9:48 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
What's SOTU? I might be having a brainfart here.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

State Of The Union.
A transcript is included in its thread.

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Thursday, February 1, 2018 12:25 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
What's SOTU? I might be having a brainfart here.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Must have been brainfart. You had just posted in that thread 5 hours before.

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Thursday, February 1, 2018 5:22 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Nope. Not a brainfart. I've never owned a smartphone, so I haven't jumped on this bandwagon that we need to have an acronym for everything.

For the longest time, I thought FTW meant Fuck the World.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, February 1, 2018 6:24 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Nope. Not a brainfart. I've never owned a smartphone, so I haven't jumped on this bandwagon that we need to have an acronym for everything.

For the longest time, I thought FTW meant Fuck the World.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

To to be a life without knowing what are WTF, SNAFU, Jeep, FBI, POTUS, SUV, CIA, LOL, BOGO, ASAP, SONAR, RADAR, LASER, JPG, GIF, BASIC, IRS, DOS, MHz, MPG, MPH, PPG, PPM, DOT, IFF, ABS, SSN, PIN, VIN, ID, DMV, TV, NASA, DVD, CD, IIRC, DJIA...

Although it did take me awhile for WOT - and not without it being spelled out for me.

Now you make me wonder if second knows what FTS is.

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Thursday, February 1, 2018 7:50 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Nope. Not a brainfart. I've never owned a smartphone, so I haven't jumped on this bandwagon that we need to have an acronym for everything.

For the longest time, I thought FTW meant Fuck the World.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

To to be a life without knowing what are WTF, SNAFU, Jeep, FBI, POTUS, SUV, CIA, LOL, BOGO, ASAP, SONAR, RADAR, LASER, JPG, GIF, BASIC, IRS, DOS, MHz, MPG, MPH, PPG, PPM, DOT, IFF, ABS, SSN, PIN, VIN, ID, DMV, TV, NASA, DVD, CD, IIRC, DJIA...

Although it did take me awhile for WOT - and not without it being spelled out for me.

Now you make me wonder if second knows what FTS is.



WTF - I don't know why, but I always got that one. Maybe that's why I thought what I did about FTW?

LOL - Maybe the first internet created acronym? They were definitely using it back in the America Online days.

ASAP/TV/ID/PIN/VIN/SSN/MPH/MPG - Ones long in the vernacular. I think everybody knows these.

SNAFU/FUBAR - I knew that because of an army movie. Maybe Full Metal Jacket?


SONAR/RADAR/LASER/SUV/JEEP - Movies maybe? Maybe *gasp* school?

FBI/CIA/IRS/DMV/NASA/DOT/Alphabet Agencies - Probably from movies.

BOGO - I don't really shop or buy anything unless I actually need it. Only know this one because of my work in retail.

ABS - Car commercials for sure.

JPG/GIF/BASIC/DOS/MHz/DVD/CD - I've been a huge computer nerd since the late 80's early 90's. I know a lot of the tech jargon.

PPG/PPM - Wow. 2 of them on the list were for sure learned from school. Maybe they actually do teach you something there.

DJIA - Had to google that. Never knew that one even though I was pretty big into investing in the middle of last decade.

POTUS - Didn't even know that one until maybe a year or two ago.

IFF - Never heard of it before. Looks like it has quite few meanings on Wikipedia.

IIRC - If I Recall Correctly?



FTS - File Transfer Service? Fight the System? Fuck the System? Fuck This Shit? Fuck That Shit? Failure To Stop? Flip The Script? Fortis, Inc.? Full Text Search? Financial Tracking Service? Federal Technology Service? Federal Tax Service? Flight Termination System? Floppy Trunk Syndrome? Free The Slaves?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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