REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Evidence: So where are we now(II) ?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, July 22, 2019 15:47
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Tuesday, June 19, 2018 5:06 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

"corruptly persuade another person" to do what? Do you know?
"fraudulent statements" about what?
etc, etc



Sadly, your computer skills and reading skills are lacking, or you could have found the answers to these questions yourself by reading the indictment. To summarize for you, Russia is not mentioned as a part of this indictment. Neither is the Trump campaign. Not only that, but this indictment specifically covers the period 2008*2014, well before Trump's campaign.

The indictment specifically mentions failure to file, and the IRS. And it occurred within the context of Manafort's work on behalf of Ukrainian clients.


The reports filed by individuals and businesses are used by law enforcement to identify, detect, and deter money laundering that furthers criminal enterprise activity, tax evasion, and other unlawful activities. For each year in or about and between 2008 through at least 2014 **, MANAFORT had authority over foreign accounts that required an FBAR filing . Specifically, MANAFORT was required to report to the Treasury each foreign bank account held by the foreign MANAFORT entities noted above in paragraph 11
that bears the initials PM. No FBAR reports were made by MANAFORT for these accounts .

(** Note - before the campaign)

In 2011, MANAFORT created DMP International, LLC (DMI) to engage in work for foreign clients, in particular political consulting, lobbying, and public relations for the Government of Ukraine, the Party of Regions, and members of the Party of Regions. DMI was a partnership solely owned by MANAFORT and his spouse.


GEEBERS: Same shit, same shoveler




SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Wednesday, June 20, 2018 5:24 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Still No Evidence? How long with this Witch Hunt fester?

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Wednesday, June 20, 2018 6:36 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

Sadly, your computer skills and reading skills are lacking, or you could have found the answers to these questions yourself by reading the indictment. To summarize for you, Russia is not mentioned as a part of this indictment. Neither is the Trump campaign. Not only that, but this indictment specifically covers the period 2008*2014, well before Trump's campaign.



You didn't read it all did you? I even copied parts that addressed activities beyond 2014. Read it again and get back to us - I won't wait.

Were you expecting "Here Ye Here Ye! This is an Indictment for Russian Collusion!" to be written in crayon across the top? These are for specific crimes - pertinent facts and details to be presented during the trial. You're going to have to hold your water, precious. Trust me - "Russia" will be part of his trial - you'll be so very happy.

And you dodged the question again: do you know if any other indictments are coming? Of course you don't, just like you don't know what evidence Mueller has even though you will pretend to.

Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
GEEBERS: Same shit, same shoveler



KIKI = same noise, same wrong.

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Wednesday, June 20, 2018 10:13 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Still No Evidence? How long with this Witch Hunt fester?



How many days left on the clock now?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, July 1, 2018 2:27 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Still No Evidence?

Is this why my MSM feed has shifted to other Fake News, no longer the drumbeat of Trump! Russia! Collusion! Fake News?

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Sunday, July 1, 2018 3:14 PM

JJ


Wait for it....tick tock

T


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Sunday, July 1, 2018 10:44 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I keep hearing that the 18 Clintonistas and Obamanistas that Mueller has hired are digging into 16-years-ago Trump activities.
Is that evidence that there is no evidence?
How else to prove absence of proof than the absence of pursuit of the non-evidence?





Do Right, Be Right. :)

That is a great JPEG. And from PBS?

Russian trolls, spewing the same BS they've been peddling for 3 decades.

Yawn.

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Monday, July 2, 2018 2:23 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I keep hearing that the 18 Clintonistas and Obamanistas that Mueller has hired are digging into 16-years-ago Trump activities.
Is that evidence that there is no evidence?
How else to prove absence of proof than the absence of pursuit of the non-evidence?





Do Right, Be Right. :)

That is a great JPEG. And from PBS?

Russian trolls, spewing the same BS they've been peddling for 3 decades.

Yawn.



Please explain to me what a Russian Nazi is.

I can't be both.

Make up your fucking pea-brain.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, July 2, 2018 4:56 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Man, I really got this right:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I keep hearing that the 18 Clintonistas and Obamanistas that Mueller has hired are digging into 16-years-ago Trump activities.
Is that evidence that there is no evidence?
How else to prove absence of proof than the absence of pursuit of the non-evidence?





Do Right, Be Right. :)

That is a great JPEG. And from PBS?


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Monday, July 2, 2018 9:23 AM

REAVERFAN


Michael Cohen says family and country, not President Trump, is his 'first loyalty'
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/michael-cohen-family-country-presi
dent-trump-loyalty/story?id=56304585&__twitter_impression=true


After federal agents searched Cohen’s New York properties, Trump described the raid as a break-in, an “attack on our country, in a true sense. It’s an attack on what we all stand for.”

“I don’t agree with those who demonize or vilify the FBI. I respect the FBI as an institution, as well as their agents,” Cohen told me. “When they searched my hotel room and my home, it was obviously upsetting to me and my family. Nonetheless, the agents were respectful, courteous and professional. I thanked them for their service and as they left, we shook hands.”

Cohen also refused to criticize the Mueller investigation.

"I don’t like the term witch hunt,” he said, adding that he condemned Russia for interfering in the 2016 election.

“As an American, I repudiate Russia’s or any other foreign government’s attempt to interfere or meddle in our democratic process, and I would call on all Americans to do the same,” he said.

And in a direct rebuttal to President Trump, who sent out a tweet last week repeating Vladimir Putin’s claim that Russia did not interfere in our election, Cohen added this: “Simply accepting the denial of Mr. Putin is unsustainable.”

Sounds like somebody doesn't want to go to jail! LOL!


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Monday, July 2, 2018 1:51 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


All chatter.

Still No Evidence.

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Saturday, July 7, 2018 2:22 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Since there are so many places I could post this exonerating tidbit, I'll post it in a few places:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/06/politics/paul-manafort-trial-public/ind
ex.html


Prosecutors says any alleged collusion with the Russian government won’t come up at the trial.




SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Monday, August 13, 2018 7:40 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Still No Evidence.

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Monday, August 13, 2018 7:49 PM

REAVERFAN


Mountains. Most corrupt, treasonous regime in history.

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Monday, August 13, 2018 9:14 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Still No Evidence.

Still No Evidence.

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Tuesday, August 14, 2018 6:06 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Still No Evidence.

Still No Evidence.

It took years and years before Mary Livingston, a federal archivist, could get anybody important to look into Nixon stealing $450,000. The same will happen with Trump. We're only 2 years into it. So if the Nixon example is followed then we've got at least 4 more years of important people looking the other way on Trump.
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2007/03/remembering_ric.html

And then when it is all done, Nixon's accountant takes the fall for Nixon. Again, the important people who are suppose to enforce the law did what they could to protect Nixon. They couldn't stop a trial, but they could mislead a jury about who did what. And Nixon did not pay back all he owed because the legal reckoning was too slow. The statue of limitations kicked in.
www.nytimes.com/1975/02/20/archives/two-men-indicted-over-nixon-taxes-
lawyer-and-appraiser-are-accused.html


The same will happen with Trump, probably. After all the Sound and the Fury of Trump's Presidency, somebody other than Trump will pay the price.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, August 14, 2018 9:57 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Still No Evidence.

Still No Evidence.



I talked to Mueller on the phone just yesterday and he says different.

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Tuesday, August 14, 2018 10:08 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


One of the first things that a serial liar wants to do is undermine your trust in the providers of fact that would check his lies. Trump says ‘Fake News’ ten times a day, undermining trust in news facts, but the president of the United States is also a serial liar. A tally of Trump’s false or misleading claims found the number was 3,001, which averages out to roughly six lies or half-lies each day. That number has climbed to nine per day in recent months. How can Trump do this without consequences? We have a problem in domains like politics and religion and ethics. There is a loss of authority in these areas. There’s no certain or agreed-upon way of getting at the truth. This is a very old problem in philosophy that goes all the way back to Plato, so it’s not exactly new — although it’s interesting that it’s come to the fore again in the way that it has.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/05/01/president-trump
-has-made-3001-false-or-misleading-claims-so-far/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d0e44d53ff32


For most of my adult life, I lived in what was sometimes called the postwar consensus. There were decent ways of doing politics. There were people who might veer toward free markets, and others who might veer a slightly different way, toward state interventions and subsidies, and so on. But basically, there was a general consensus about baseline facts, and disagreements were rooted in those facts.

Things have changed, though. When a proposition is contaminated by politics, truth suddenly flies out the window. The problem is that in politics, people get very attached to hope. They hope for a vision which may or may not be realistic, and may or may not be grounded in truth and facts.

It’s a bit like conspiracy theorists, who actually thrive on the fact that all the evidence points against their theory, because that just shows that the establishment is clever enough to conceal what’s really going on. People get attached to certain ideas and nothing will shake them. And when convictions start to live in opposition to reason or truth, that’s a very dangerous thing. A great American pragmatist, Charles Sanders Pierce, thought that doubt was such an uncomfortable position that people would do almost anything to seize on a belief or conviction that removed it.

I think that’s what we’re seeing in politics.

One of the first things that a serial liar wants to do is undermine your trust in the providers of fact that would check his lies. If you’re a criminal bent on asserting your innocence, then you undermine trust in the police. You undermine trust in the judiciary. You may be a murderer and a rapist, but you claim it’s the system that’s against you. This is sort of Trump’s best move: It’s the thing he understands most.

He sprays around accusations of fake news while knowing full well that he’s the liar. It’s a tactical move that absolutely works in a media landscape like ours, and he knows it.

How do we encourage people to care about the truth and to hold liars accountable for their lies? That is really a moral problem, and it is always difficult to predict what will make people act on their moral compasses. But perjury is still a very serious crime; maybe it will be the downfall of the Donald one day! Except Trump refuses to take an oath, or even speak informally to Robert Mueller.

Of course, people are good at shirking the facts; this has always been the case. But I believe that all decent people eventually reject this kind of behavior, and want to see liars held responsible for their lies.

I can’t say whether or not this will happen but I sure hope it does.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, August 14, 2018 11:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND would you please put the articles that you post in QUOTES? The reason why I'm asking is because your link doesn't work for me (I'm not about to open up my browser and unblock ads just for this) and I can't tell which part is "you" and which part is "them".

I'm assuming that it's all "them"; so correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, it's a shame that your link doesn't work for me because you have a habit of posting just the snippets that you want to post, quite often out of articles that have nothing to do with the broader context of what you're trying to say. (For example, posting a link to "The Browning of America" when trying to make a point about oligopoly.)

Quote:

One of the first things that a serial liar wants to do is undermine your trust in the providers of fact that would check his lies. Trump says ‘Fake News’ ten times a day, undermining trust in news facts, but the president of the United States is also a serial liar.
"Also" as in ... "in addition to the news ALSO being serial liars"?

Poorly constructed sentence . If they wanted to say that Trump is a serial liar they should simply have written
Quote:

Trump says ‘Fake News’ ten times a day, undermining trust in news facts, but the president of the United States is ... a serial liar
So it's hard to discern their point.

Quote:

A tally of Trump’s false or misleading claims found the number was 3,001, which averages out to roughly six lies or half-lies each day. That number has climbed to nine per day in recent months. How can Trump do this without consequences? We have a problem in domains like politics and religion and ethics ....
... AND THE MEDIA
Quote:

There is a loss of authority in these areas. There’s no certain or agreed-upon way of getting at the truth.
Not true. There is a thing called the "scientific method" which completely avoids the issue of "authority" being the foundation of "truth".

Why would anyone appeal to "authority" for "the truth" anyway? "Authority" only works for beliefs, where you have a "canon" ... a "book of instructions" like the Bible ... which tells you what and how to think, and aren't supposed to ASK QUESTIONS. This is an appeal to liberal authoritarianism.

*****
Is this still from the original article?

Quote:

For most of my adult life, I lived in what was sometimes called the postwar consensus. There were decent ways of doing politics. There were people who might veer toward free markets, and others who might veer a slightly different way, toward state interventions and subsidies, and so on. But basically, there was a general consensus about baseline facts, and disagreements were rooted in those facts.
But many other "facts" were conveniently ignored in this postwar consensus. These "facts" include the "fact" that the United States was building its wealth by invading and robbing other nations; the "fact" that the USA was hemorrhaging money into its military-security-state complex and that it was ruining our budget (LBJ); the "fact" that the USA created the "petrodollar" to ensure that it's currency would have continuing relevance after going off the gold standard (Bretton Woods agreement, Nixon) and then the "fact" that the USA elite decided that financialism would be their ticket to wealth, and so they offshored messy and less-profitable manufacturing (under Clinton) to China.

Quote:

Things have changed, though. When a proposition is contaminated by politics, truth suddenly flies out the window. The problem is that in politics, people get very attached to hope. They hope for a vision which may or may not be realistic, and may or may not be grounded in truth and facts.

It’s a bit like conspiracy theorists, who actually thrive on the fact that all the evidence points against their theory, because that just shows that the establishment is clever enough to conceal what’s really going on. People get attached to certain ideas and nothing will shake them.

And I would say that SECOND is a prime example of this.

Quote:

And when convictions start to live in opposition to reason or truth, that’s a very dangerous thing. A great American pragmatist, Charles Sanders Pierce, thought that doubt was such an uncomfortable position that people would do almost anything to seize on a belief or conviction that removed it.
ditto

Quote:

I think that’s what we’re seeing in politics.

One of the first things that a serial liar wants to do is undermine your trust in the providers of fact that would check his lies. If you’re a criminal bent on asserting your innocence, then you undermine trust in the police. You undermine trust in the judiciary. You may be a murderer and a rapist, but you claim it’s the system that’s against you.

This is sort of Trump’s best move: It’s the thing he understands most.

Yanno, this thread is about EVIDENCE, specifically that Trump "colluded" (conspired) with Russia .... or that Russia colluded (conspired) with Trump to win the election. There is not one shred of EVIDENCE in this article .... which, by the way, is doing EXACTLY what it accuses Trump of doing ...

It is painting Trump as a generator of "fake news" in order to distract from the fact that there is no EVIDENCE against him.

Quote:

He sprays around accusations of fake news
just like this article
Quote:

while knowing full well that he’s the liar.
just like this article.

Quote:

It’s a tactical move that absolutely works in a media landscape like ours, and he knows it.
just like this article.

*****

'Nuf said. I think we should focus on the EVIDENCE, not on character assassination and innuendo and speculation.

And I come back to this ... The security-state's biggest claim that RUSSIA!!! interfered with our elections is the "hacking" of the DNC server, and the release of the DNC emails, which exposed a lot of the dirty secrets within the DNC.

a) The FBI NEVER examined the server directly, but instead took a DNC-contracted security firm's (Crowdstrike) conclusions at face value, and

b) The one person who knows EXACTLY where the files came from is Julian Assange, since he received and distributed them.

Unless and until they examine the server and especially unless and until they can question Assange, they know SHIT. It's all smoke and mirrors.

In some previous post, THUGR said that the Senate wanted to question Assange. He opined that Assange would ask for immunity.

Well, I hope they do, and I hope he does.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, August 14, 2018 11:46 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

And I come back to this ... The security-state's biggest claim that RUSSIA!!! interfered with our elections is the "hacking" of the DNC server, and the release of the DNC emails, which exposed a lot of the dirty secrets within the DNC.

a) The FBI NEVER examined the server directly, but instead took a DNC-contracted security firm's (Crowdstrike) conclusions at face value, and

b) The one person who knows EXACTLY where the files came from is Julian Assange, since he received and distributed them.

Unless and until they examine the server and especially unless and until they can question Assange, they know SHIT. It's all smoke and mirrors.

In some previous post, THUGR said that the Senate wanted to question Assange. He opined that Assange would ask for immunity.

Well, I hope they do, and I hope he does.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

You are fucking crazy, Signym. If Trump wanted your a) or your b) he could have hired somebody he trusted, other than the FBI. He could have sent somebody to London to talk to Assage that wasn't FBI. It never happened because Trump doesn't care to know. It is just a talking point. It is exactly like his insisting he would talk to Robert Mueller, but he never did. If Trump wants to clear up any of these controversies, he has to actually clear them up, not talk about it with no action. Again, Signym, you are fucking crazy to not notice that Trump does nothing to clarify any of your points bothering you.

Trump has threatened to shut down Mueller. I want to see him do it and stop talking about it. If it is a witch hunt, he should do it because it is his obligation to the American people to not waste their money on an investigation that can accomplish nothing. Alternatively, he could simply stop talking about witch hunts. That would be a nice change for him.

Trump has also said Manafort is innocent. I want to see Trump pardon Manafort if he is that certain of the truth. Stop the trial today! Don't let Mueller harass Manafort by trials and prisons. Save Manafort, Mr President, and Make America Great Again!

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, August 14, 2018 12:49 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You are fucking crazy, Signym. If Trump wanted your a) or your b) he could have hired somebody he trusted, other than the FBI. He could have sent somebody to London to talk to Assage that wasn't FBI.
This is one of your stupider posts, and considering how stupid some of them have been, that's saying something!

If Trump had done any of that, then whatever information HE brought forward would be just as suspect as Crowdstrike's "analysis" (paid for by the DNC) or Steele's "dossier" (ALSO paid for by the DNC).

Nope, the process needs to be legal and in the public eye. I think that Trump should just declassify the IG's report and whatever else has a bearing on the case, to the extent allowable by REAL security considerations (not just fanny-covering by the agencies involved); offer immunity for Assange's testimony; rip open this whole cabal between Ohr and Strzok and Rosenstein and Brennan; have a REAL investigation done of Hillary and her server and Debbie/Awan and their data and be done with it.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, August 14, 2018 7:54 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

You are fucking crazy, Signym. If Trump wanted your a) or your b) he could have hired somebody he trusted, other than the FBI. He could have sent somebody to London to talk to Assage that wasn't FBI.
This is one of your stupider posts, and considering how stupid some of them have been, that's saying something!

If Trump had done any of that, then whatever information HE brought forward would be just as suspect as Crowdstrike's "analysis" (paid for by the DNC) or Steele's "dossier" (ALSO paid for by the DNC).

Nope, the process needs to be legal and in the public eye. I think that Trump should just declassify the IG's report and whatever else has a bearing on the case, to the extent allowable by REAL security considerations (not just fanny-covering by the agencies involved); offer immunity for Assange's testimony; rip open this whole cabal between Ohr and Strzok and Rosenstein and Brennan; have a REAL investigation done of Hillary and her server and Debbie/Awan and their data and be done with it.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

Signym, Trump will not do any of what you suggested. Hillary, the mail server, Assange, it is all talk with Trump and nothing done. It is as if he doesn't know that being President is more than talking. Signym, you're not concerned that Trump is losing his mind? Because there is "No Evidence" as you and 1kiki keep insisting?

Omarosa’s book raises new questions about Trump, dementia, and Alzheimer’s disease. Trump is suffering a dramatic mental decline, from the quick-thinking Apprentice host to a lonely, befuddled president who rattles around in the White House with rage and confusion. Tell us again, Signym, that there is "No Evidence".

The president’s repetitive speaking patterns and apparent difficulty retaining new information have raised questions before. In January, White House doctor Ronny Jackson said he had no concerns about Trump’s cognitive ability or neurological function. But Jackson is no longer the president’s physician after allegations of improper conduct on the job. "No Evidence", eh, Signym?

He also has a family history of Alzheimer’s; his father Fred was diagnosed with the disease. Age, family history and heredity are the most important factors for determining whether you will get the disease, the Alzheimer’s Association says. Trump is the oldest president ever at the time of his first term. "No Evidence" there.

https://qz.com/1355725/

This is how to gather "Evidence": www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=3903 If two cops will do that to Scott Aaronson, Professor of Computer Science at University of Texas while he is with his family and all because of $3, I am certain Trump ought to sit down to talk with Robert Mueller, under oath, to gather evidence. America needs to go from "No Evidence" to all evidence possible and it needs to happen on Mueller's timetable, not Trump's.

An example for Signym of "Evidence" gathering: Omarosa claims Trump knew about hacked emails prior to WikiLeaks release. Mueller would ask Trump to confirm or deny, under oath. Trump can't take the Fifth Amendment because, hey, collusion is not a crime. You could ask Rudy Giuliani, Trump's lawyer. He'll confirm that belief about collusion.
http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/401792-omarosa-claims-trump-kn
ew-about-hacked-emails-before-wikileaks-released


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, August 14, 2018 11:18 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Signym, Trump will not do any of what you suggested.
I think Trump's tweets have gotten in your head.

You've lost track of all of the FBI/DOJ officers who've resigned or been fired. It seems there's a lot of swamp-draining going on which has escaped your notice.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, August 19, 2018 7:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You've lost track of all of the FBI/DOJ officers who've resigned or been fired. It seems there's a lot of swamp-draining going on which has escaped your notice.

And all without a Special Counsel being appointed to investigate Clinton/ Russia/ FBI/ CIA - gate.
Somehow the bullets aimed at Trump seem to have ricocheted.




THUGGER admits it's not about RUSSIA !!! and is, in fact, a witch hunt. "Trump better be innocent of any wrong doing, anywhere, anytime."

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Sunday, August 19, 2018 11:22 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Sicced upon with 17 of the most heinous Criminals employed as Government Lawyers, 35 of the worst criminals employed by FBI as Investigators, immunity dished out like candy to those actually guilty of crimes, and after 2 days of deliberations, the first jury cannot negotiate the morass of Fake Charges: clearly scapegoat Manafort was innocent all along.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2018 2:15 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Sicced upon with 17 of the most heinous Criminals employed as Government Lawyers, 35 of the worst criminals employed by FBI as Investigators, immunity dished out like candy to those actually guilty of crimes, and after 2 days of deliberations, the first jury cannot negotiate the morass of Fake Charges: clearly scapegoat Manafort was innocent all along.

Still No Verdict? Because there is Still No Evidence?
I heard that the Jury requested, and was given, a copy of the tomes of Byzantine regulations that Manafort was supposed to have memorized in order to have stayed within all aspects of the conflicting laws.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2018 6:56 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And I come back to this ... The security-state's biggest claim that RUSSIA!!! interfered with our elections is the "hacking" of the DNC server, and the release of the DNC emails, which exposed a lot of the dirty secrets within the DNC.

a) The FBI NEVER examined the server directly, but instead took a DNC-contracted security firm's (Crowdstrike) conclusions at face value, and

b) The one person who knows EXACTLY where the files came from is Julian Assange, since he received and distributed them.

Unless and until they examine the server and especially unless and until they can question Assange, they know SHIT. It's all smoke and mirrors.

In some previous post, THUGR said that the Senate wanted to question Assange. He opined that Assange would ask for immunity.

Well, I hope they do, and I hope he does.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

You are fucking crazy, Signym. If Trump wanted your a) or your b) he could have hired somebody he trusted, other than the FBI. He could have sent somebody to London to talk to Assage that wasn't FBI. It never happened because Trump doesn't care to know. It is just a talking point. It is exactly like his insisting he would talk to Robert Mueller, but he never did. If Trump wants to clear up any of these controversies, he has to actually clear them up, not talk about it with no action. Again, Signym, you are fucking crazy to not notice that Trump does nothing to clarify any of your points bothering you.

Trump has threatened to shut down Mueller. I want to see him do it and stop talking about it. If it is a witch hunt, he should do it because it is his obligation to the American people to not waste their money on an investigation that can accomplish nothing. Alternatively, he could simply stop talking about witch hunts. That would be a nice change for him.

Trump has also said Manafort is innocent. I want to see Trump pardon Manafort if he is that certain of the truth. Stop the trial today! Don't let Mueller harass Manafort by trials and prisons. Save Manafort, Mr President, and Make America Great Again!

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

This might qualify as Stupid Post of the Week - amid heavy competition.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2018 7:48 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

This might qualify as Stupid Post of the Week - amid heavy competition.

What is likely to trip Trump is Tax Cheating.

According to new IRS estimates, only about 81.7% of America’s “true tax liability” is paid “voluntarily and timely,” compared with the previous figure of 83.1%.

The IRS says much of the tax cheating can be explained by filers with nonfarm proprietors’ income. Think of doctors, lawyers, accountants, construction companies, real-estate brokerages, and shops.

About two-thirds of those "nonfarm proprietors" filers misreported their earnings, presumably because small businesses have a wide array of tools to hide revenue and inflate expenses for tax purposes. By contrast, working stiffs paid by employers that expense their labor costs have little ability to avoid the tax man.

More at www.barrons.com/articles/americans-are-saving-more-than-we-thought-153
3034800


But Trump is legendary for his honesty and truthfulness. Perhaps he is in the one-third of "nonfarm proprietors" tax filers who do not cheat.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, August 21, 2018 8:26 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

This might qualify as Stupid Post of the Week - amid heavy competition.

The Mueller investigation is showing how badly we’ve failed to prosecute white-collar crime.

It shouldn’t take a special counsel to catch these guys.

The thought that must keep Michael Cohen up at night as he contemplates the possibility of facing federal charges for $20 million in bank fraud is the knowledge that it’s almost inconceivable he would be facing prosecution if not for the fact that his former boss got himself elected president of the United States.

The same is true, of course, of Paul Manafort, another former employee of Trump’s. Indeed, Manafort’s attorneys made the argument in court — and the judge seemed somewhat sympathetic — that in effect, the whole prosecution was illegitimate because everyone knew special counsel Robert Mueller was only bringing the case because he was hoping to turn Manafort into a cooperating witness.

Perhaps for that reason, Mueller’s team has had nothing to do with the Cohen prosecution, simply turning over evidence it uncovered to the US attorney’s office in New York and letting them handle it. Still, the fact remains that the initial inquiry only came to light because of Cohen’s association with Trump.

All of which is to say that while the first-order political upshot of the Cohen and Manafort cases is that Trump seems to associate with an awful lot of criminals, the more disturbing implication is that there are a lot of white-collar criminals out there who aren’t being prosecuted because their lives don’t happen to intersect with a special counsel investigation.

More at www.vox.com/2018/8/21/17757636/cohen-manafort-white-collar-crime

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, August 21, 2018 9:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


While I was laying in bed and trying to convince myself to get up, thinking of nothing in particular ... I started noodling on this whole "evidence" thing, and it suddenly popped into mind why there is one GIANT problem between the Steele "dossier" and the Trump Tower meeting, and it goes like this ...


According to the "dossier", Trump was compromised in 2013 as follows

Quote:

That Trump "hated" Obama so much that when he stayed in the Presidential suite of the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in Moscow, he employed "a number of prostitutes to perform a 'golden showers' (urination) show in front of him" in order to defile the bed used by the Obamas on an earlier visit. The alleged incident from 2013 was reportedly filmed and recorded by the FSB[108] as kompromat. (Dossier, p. 2)

That Trump was susceptible to blackmail due to paying bribes and the existence of "embarrassing material" due to engagement in "perverted sexual acts" and "unorthodox behavior" in Russia. (Dossier, pp. 1–2, 8, 11, 27)

That the Kremlin had assured Trump they would not use kompromat collected against him, "given high levels of voluntary co-operation forthcoming from his team."(Dossier, pp. 11–12) [/quote[ MORE AT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Russia_dossier



The "compromising" information against TRUMP had nothing to do with business deals in the USA, tax evasion, or any other crimes that TRUMP may have committed in the USA but was (mostly) limited "golden showers". I just wanted to make that point, that if people here believe the dossier, then they must also realize that shaking the "white collar crime" tree isn't going to yield them DONALD TRUMP, at least not according to the "dossier".

******

Anyway, the next piece of "evidence" had to do with the Trump Tower meeting, which appeared to be nothing more than a "bait and switch" ... a promise of info on Hillary in which NO INFO ON HILLARY WAS PROVIDED. Instead, there was an appeal to eliminate or modify the Magnitsky Act.


*******

This meeting appears to be nothing more than an attempt to entrap TRUMP or his team...

... again ???

If TRUMP was compromised in 2013, they (the Russians) would have made him aware of the information, otherwise they would have never convinced him to run for 2016, nor could they otherwise have convinced him to run on a campaign of "making nice with Russia".

And if he was compromised in 2013, and made aware of it at least before he started his campaign for the Presidency, then why would "The Russians" attempt to compromise him .... AGAIN???? in 2016.... laying a trail of evidence that could only derail TRUMP's legitimacy and weaken his utility as their Manchurian candidate?

Each piece of "evidence" negates the other, since it doesn't make sense for both to be true at the same time.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, August 21, 2018 10:07 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

While I was laying in bed and trying to convince myself to get up, thinking of nothing in particular ... I started noodling on this whole "evidence" thing, and it suddenly popped into mind why there is one GIANT problem . . .

Donald Trump, career criminal

He got his start as a celebrity with a New York Times article detailing federal housing discrimination charges brought against him and his father. The charges were, ultimately, settled without admission of fault — something that would be a pattern for Trump over the years.

That his first foray into the real estate business involved criminal acts didn’t stop him from continuing in that business. When he later branched out into casinos, he got caught accepting an illegal loan from his father to stay afloat and got off with a slap on the wrist and was allowed to continue in that business as well.

From his empty-box tax scam to money laundering at his casinos to racial discrimination in his apartments to Federal Trade Commission violations for his stock purchases to Securities and Exchange Commission violations for his financial reporting, Trump has spent his entire career breaking various laws, getting caught, and then essentially plowing ahead unharmed.

One of Trump’s real insights in life was to see this bug in the system. When it comes to these kinds of crimes, it’s typically in government officials’ interest to agree to a settlement that gives them positive headlines and raises some cash while letting them move on to the next investigation. But while these decisions can make sense individually, they let serial offenders repeat their crimes over and over again.

More at www.vox.com/2018/8/21/17757636/cohen-manafort-white-collar-crime

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, August 21, 2018 10:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


While I was laying in bed and trying to convince myself to get up, thinking of nothing in particular ... I started noodling on this whole "evidence" thing, and it suddenly popped into mind why there is one GIANT problem between the Steele "dossier" and the Trump Tower meeting, and it goes like this ...


According to the "dossier", Trump was compromised in 2013 as follows

Quote:

That Trump "hated" Obama so much that when he stayed in the Presidential suite of the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in Moscow, he employed "a number of prostitutes to perform a 'golden showers' (urination) show in front of him" in order to defile the bed used by the Obamas on an earlier visit. The alleged incident from 2013 was reportedly filmed and recorded by the FSB[108] as kompromat. (Dossier, p. 2)

That Trump was susceptible to blackmail due to paying bribes and the existence of "embarrassing material" due to engagement in "perverted sexual acts" and "unorthodox behavior" in Russia. (Dossier, pp. 1–2, 8, 11, 27)

That the Kremlin had assured Trump they would not use kompromat collected against him, "given high levels of voluntary co-operation forthcoming from his team."(Dossier, pp. 11–12) [/quote[ MORE AT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Russia_dossier



The "compromising" information against TRUMP had nothing to do with business deals in the USA, tax evasion, or any other crimes that TRUMP may have committed in the USA but was (mostly) limited "golden showers". I just wanted to make that point, that if people here believe the dossier, then they must also realize that shaking the "white collar crime" tree isn't going to yield them DONALD TRUMP, at least not according to the "dossier".

******

Anyway, the next piece of "evidence" had to do with the Trump Tower meeting, which appeared to be nothing more than a "bait and switch" ... a promise of info on Hillary in which NO INFO ON HILLARY WAS PROVIDED. Instead, there was an appeal to eliminate or modify the Magnitsky Act.


*******

This meeting appears to be nothing more than an attempt to entrap TRUMP or his team...

... again ???

If TRUMP was compromised in 2013, they (the Russians) would have made him aware of the information fairly early, otherwise they would have never convinced him to run for 2016, nor could they otherwise have convinced him to run on a campaign of "making nice with Russia".

And if he was compromised in 2013, and made aware of it at least before he started his campaign for the Presidency, then why would "The Russians" attempt to compromise him .... AGAIN???? in 2016.... laying a trail of evidence that could only derail TRUMP's legitimacy and weaken his utility as their Manchurian candidate?

Each piece of "evidence" negates the other, since it doesn't make sense for both to be true at the same time.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, August 21, 2018 1:17 PM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
While I was laying in bed and trying to convince myself to get up, thinking of nothing in particular ... I started noodling on this whole "evidence" thing, and it suddenly popped into mind why there is one GIANT problem between the Steele "dossier" and the Trump Tower meeting, and it goes like this ...

According to the "dossier", Trump was compromised in 2013 as follows

Quote:

That Trump "hated" Obama so much that when he stayed in the Presidential suite of the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in Moscow, he employed "a number of prostitutes to perform a 'golden showers' (urination) show in front of him" in order to defile the bed used by the Obamas on an earlier visit. The alleged incident from 2013 was reportedly filmed and recorded by the FSB[108] as kompromat. (Dossier, p. 2)

That Trump was susceptible to blackmail due to paying bribes and the existence of "embarrassing material" due to engagement in "perverted sexual acts" and "unorthodox behavior" in Russia. (Dossier, pp. 1–2, 8, 11, 27)

That the Kremlin had assured Trump they would not use kompromat collected against him, "given high levels of voluntary co-operation forthcoming from his team."(Dossier, pp. 11–12) [/quote[ MORE AT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Russia_dossier



The "compromising" information against TRUMP had nothing to do with business deals in the USA, tax evasion, or any other crimes that TRUMP may have committed in the USA but was (mostly) limited "golden showers". I just wanted to make that point, that if people here believe the dossier, then they must also realize that shaking the "white collar crime" tree isn't going to yield them DONALD TRUMP, at least not according to the "dossier".




You and the GOP and Fox News try to make the dossier out to be the ONLY evidence of Trump's wrong doing and culpability. The failed logic behind that is that by doing so you believe you only have to prove one thing wrong and viola! Trump is innocent! Nunes tried that angle for a long time. Of course it's a bogus concept weakly conceived and easily shot down. Besides, does anyone think ole "grab 'em by the blank!" cares about the sex stuff? Wishing it were so doesn't make it so. Mueller and others have even said it's not all been verified, so you're barking up the wrong tree.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Anyway, the next piece of "evidence" had to do with the Trump Tower meeting, which appeared to be nothing more than a "bait and switch" ... a promise of info on Hillary in which NO INFO ON HILLARY WAS PROVIDED. Instead, there was an appeal to eliminate or modify the Magnitsky Act.




Hilarious - you have no idea what was discussed at the meeting or what plans were made in the secrecy of that room. No cell phones, face to face, no trace of what they said. Sounds like the perfect place for conspiracy. The fact that you can type "it appeared to be ...." is pretty funny. You really have no idea unless you were there.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If TRUMP was compromised in 2013, they (the Russians) would have made him aware of the information fairly early, otherwise they would have never convinced him to run for 2016, nor could they otherwise have convinced him to run on a campaign of "making nice with Russia".

And if he was compromised in 2013, and made aware of it at least before he started his campaign for the Presidency, then why would "The Russians" attempt to compromise him .... AGAIN???? in 2016.... laying a trail of evidence that could only derail TRUMP's legitimacy and weaken his utility as their Manchurian candidate?

Each piece of "evidence" negates the other, since it doesn't make sense for both to be true at the same time.



Huh? Who said the meeting was an attempt to compromise him? Even if it was - and I don't know how - is there such a thing as too much kompromat? Of course not!

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Tuesday, August 21, 2018 3:24 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

If TRUMP was compromised in 2013, they (the Russians) would have made him aware of the information fairly early, otherwise they would have never convinced him to run for 2016, nor could they otherwise have convinced him to run on a campaign of "making nice with Russia".

And if he was compromised in 2013, and made aware of it at least before he started his campaign for the Presidency, then why would "The Russians" attempt to compromise him .... AGAIN???? in 2016.... laying a trail of evidence that could only derail TRUMP's legitimacy and weaken his utility as their Manchurian candidate?

Each piece of "evidence" negates the other, since it doesn't make sense for both to be true at the same time.

Michael Cohen’s confession in open court that he violated campaign finance law to cover up an alleged affair between Donald Trump and Stormy Daniels — and that he did so at Trump’s direction — is a stunning moment in American politics.

It’s also a reminder that while the investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 campaign and possible involvement in said meddling by Trump or members of his circle is important, it’s hardly the only line of inquiry into Trump’s conduct for which there’s a legitimate basis.

The Cohen case arose in a peripheral way as a result of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation. But not wanting to be seen as conducting a fishing investigation, he handed it off to the United States attorney’s office in New York. That office conducted an investigation that did, in fact, end up looping back onto Trump and implicating him in a crime. It just happens to be a crime that doesn’t involve Russia. If anyone other than the president were implicated in this way, they would be indicted.

The situation arguably calls for the appointment of a second special counsel or perhaps for an expansion of Mueller’s mandate. But if we’re going to start asking Mueller to take a wider look at things, he could get very busy very quickly.

More at www.vox.com/2018/8/21/17766218/michael-cohen-guilty-plea-trump-impeach
ed-indicted


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, August 22, 2018 7:35 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The Mueller investigation exists fundamentally not because Trump/Russia is the only thing worth investigating but because it happens to be the only thing that a small clutch of devoted GOP Russia hawks wanted to see an investigation of. They’ve been comfortable sweeping everything else under the rug — Trump’s shady business dealings, post-election financial conflicts of interest, and alleged sexual assaults.

We are in a situation where the constitutional responsibility of Congress is to step up to the plate and do something to ascertain whether or not it’s true that Trump was the architect of a criminal scheme for which his former fixer and personal attorney is headed to jail.

But congressional Republicans don’t care — it’s just one more item in a long list of things they don’t care about. The essentially uniform unwillingness of House and Senate Republicans to undertake any kind of meaningful oversight of the executive branch has left the country teetering in a state of perpetual crisis.

More at www.vox.com/2018/8/21/17766412/michael-cohen-guilty-plea-congressional
-republicans


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, August 23, 2018 11:06 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Still No Evidence of Collusion? It's only been a year of the Witch Hunt Fishing Expedition.

After 15 months, Still No Evidence.

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Friday, August 24, 2018 7:05 AM

THG


It's not even troubling that you feel there is no evidence JSF. It's just absurd and I find myself not caring in the least that you see things that way.

T


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Friday, August 24, 2018 11:23 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
It's not even troubling that you feel there is no evidence JSF. It's just absurd and I find myself not caring in the least that you see things that way.

T


What JewelStaiteFan means is that Trump is innocent until JewelStaiteFan decides he is guilty. We'll all have to wait until the next election in 2020 to see if Trump is innocent enough to be reelected. In 2016, there was a long list of evidence that Trump was guilty as hell, and that list was ignored, so we know the latest list could also be ignored as if it did not exist for most GOP voters. They always vote for the Republican candidates in all races. It is very unlikely they will make an exception for Trump and refuse to vote for him. He is a Republican, they are Republicans and they will forget the bad news about him.
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61953&mid=10591
71#1059171


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, August 24, 2018 11:50 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The Trump Organization's finance boss, Allen Weisselberg, has reportedly been granted legal immunity. It is not yet clear what Mr Weisselberg has agreed to in return for getting legal immunity. They say it was for the probe into Michael Cohen, but it is really for the probe into you know who.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45301884

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, August 24, 2018 12:52 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Still No Evidence of Collusion? It's only been a year of the Witch Hunt Fishing Expedition.

Trump demands a new Witch Hunt of his enemies (he has a List!). It is only fair that the old Witch Hunt of Trump should continue and intensify.

Trump on Friday suggested Jeff Sessions pursue Trump's political opponents:

"Jeff, this is GREAT, what everyone wants, so look into all of the corruption on the "other side" including deleted Emails, Comey lies & leaks, Mueller conflicts, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Ohr...FISA abuse, Christopher Steele & his phony and corrupt Dossier, the Clinton Foundation, illegal surveillance of Trump Campaign, Russian collusion by Dems - and so much more. Open up the papers & documents without redaction? Come on Jeff, you can do it, the country is waiting!" Trump wrote on Twitter Friday morning.

He also called the punishment for National Security Agency leaker Reality Winner "'small potatoes' compared to what Hillary Clinton did," seemingly referring to Clinton's use of a private email server.

"So unfair Jeff, Double Standard," Trump tweeted.

www.cnn.com/2018/08/24/politics/trump-continues-jeff-sessions-criticis
m/index.html


If any law enforcer believed there was case against Trump's enemies, the law would have already "locked them up" to please Trump. But nobody has, so there is no case.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, August 25, 2018 6:02 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"What JewelStaiteFan means is that Trump is innocent until JewelStaiteFan decides he is guilty." SECOND, Trump is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, based on evidence that supports the allegations.




THUGGER admits it's not about RUSSIA !!! and is, in fact, a witch hunt. "Trump better be innocent of any wrong doing, anywhere, anytime."

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Saturday, August 25, 2018 6:35 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"What JewelStaiteFan means is that Trump is innocent until JewelStaiteFan decides he is guilty." SECOND, Trump is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, based on evidence that supports the allegations.

1kiki, if Federal prosecutors think like that, they would never go to trial on any case. The prosecutors place their reputations on the line when they decide to investigate one thing rather than another. They have to decide if a crime was committed months before a jury decides.

This should be a moment of reflection for white-collar prosecutors. It should not take a special counsel to uncover millions in bank fraud, money laundering and tax evasion by Manafort, Cohen or Trump. Using proper techniques, prioritizing crimes that can harm millions of people and stiffening their obsequious posture toward corporate executives will go a ways to remedying the situation.

Here’s the bad news, which will be the least surprising thing you’ll read today: the Trump administration is moving in the opposite direction. Its law enforcement agencies are engaged in something of a regulatory strike, especially when it comes to white-collar enforcement. Regulators are not policing companies or industries and are not referring cases to the Justice Department. The number of white-collar cases filed against individuals is lower than at any time in more than 20 years, according to research done by Syracuse University. The Justice Department’s fines against companies fell 90 percent during Trump’s first year in office, compared with in Obama’s last year in office, according to Public Citizen.

That must be sweet music to not just to other Manaforts and Cohens but also any corporate malefactors out there.

More at www.propublica.org/article/why-manafort-and-cohen-thought-theyd-get-aw
ay-with-it


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, August 25, 2018 7:11 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"The prosecutors ... have to decide if a crime was committed months before a jury decides." Are you saying mere accusation by a prosecutor is proof of guilt? You DO realize that's a distinctly anti-American position to take - right?




THUGGER admits it's not about RUSSIA !!! and is, in fact, a witch hunt. "Trump better be innocent of any wrong doing, anywhere, anytime."

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Saturday, August 25, 2018 7:54 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"The prosecutors ... have to decide if a crime was committed months before a jury decides." Are you saying mere accusation by a prosecutor is proof of guilt? You DO realize that's a distinctly anti-American position to take - right?

Before going to trial, does a prosecutor believe that no crimes were committed, but goes to trial anyway so that a jury can look over and double-check the evidence and maybe, just maybe, find a crime that the prosecutor missed or overlooked?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, August 25, 2018 8:21 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"The prosecutors ... have to decide if a crime was committed months before a jury decides." Are you saying mere accusation by a prosecutor is proof of guilt? You DO realize that's a distinctly anti-American position to take - right?

Before going to trial, does a prosecutor believe that no crimes were committed, but goes to trial anyway so that a jury can look over and double-check the evidence and maybe, just maybe, find a crime that the prosecutor missed or overlooked?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



Why not?

Find me a single defense attorney who has gone to court at some point in their life knowing full well that their client was guilty of the crimes committed.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, August 25, 2018 8:28 AM

THG




T

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Saturday, August 25, 2018 8:32 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Find me a single defense attorney who has gone to court at some point in their life knowing full well that their client was guilty of the crimes committed.

John Gotti's lawyers went to trial 3 times knowing their client was guilty as hell, but they got a favorable verdict 2 times. If defense lawyers put on a good enough show for a dumb enough jury, any crime can go unpunished. Even murder.
www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/12/how-scared-should-trump-be-of-mueller-
ask-john-gotti-or-sammy-the-bull

How Scared Should Trump Be of Mueller? Ask John Gotti or Sammy “The Bull”
If history is any guide, Mueller will put up with 19 murders to get his mark.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, August 25, 2018 9:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


LET'S NOT FORGET THAT MUELLER AND COMEY HOUNDED AN INNOCENT MAN IN THE ANTHRAX CASE WHILE IGNORING THE REAL PERP.

Quote:

First, I’ll say that when I heard Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein had appointed Bob Mueller as a special prosecutor, I didn’t experience the same rhapsody as my capital compatriots. Why?
Three reasons.


First, Jim Comey and Bob Mueller have a long history as professional allies. For Mueller to be brought in to investigate the behavior of the guy who sacked Comey seems a conflict of interest. Perhaps this is the wrong way to look at it, and that Mueller’s professionalism will supersede any personal loyalty. Okay, but here’s a second reason:

These two guys, working in tandem, have a track record of bureaucratic infighting – with another Republican White House as their shared adversary -- that belies their reputations for being above political intrigue....

The third and most important factor tempering my enthusiasm for the new special prosecutor is that Comey and Mueller badly bungled the biggest case they ever handled. They botched the investigation of the 2001 anthrax letter attacks that took five lives and infected 17 other people, shut down the U.S. Capitol and Washington’s mail system, solidified the Bush administration’s antipathy for Iraq, and eventually, when the facts finally came out, made the FBI look feckless, incompetent, and easily manipulated by outside political pressure.

This, too, was an enormously complex case. But here are some facts: Despite the jihadist slogans accompanying the mailed anthrax, it had nothing to do with Saddam Hussein or any foreign element; the FBI ignored a 2002 tip from a scientific colleague of the actual anthrax killer, who turned out to be a Fort Detrick scientist named Bruce Edwards Ivins;

Ivins was never proved guilty either, since he committed suicide. The author is guilty of trying and convicting a dead man in the press, just like the press tried and convicted Hatfill originally.
Quote:

the reason is that they had quickly obsessed on an innocent man named Steven Hatfill; the bureau was bullied into focusing on the government scientist by Democratic Sen. Patrick Leahy (whose office, along with that of Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, was targeted by an anthrax-laced letter) and was duped into focusing on Hatfill by two sources – a conspiracy-minded college professor with a political agenda who’d never met Hatfill and by Nicholas Kristof, who put his conspiracy theories in the paper while mocking the FBI for not arresting Hatfill.

In truth, Hatfill was an implausible suspect from the outset. He was a virologist who never handled anthrax, which is a bacterium. (Ivins, by contrast, shared ownership of anthrax patents, was diagnosed as having paranoid personality disorder, and had a habit of stalking and threatening people with anonymous letters – including the woman who provided the long-ignored tip to the FBI). So what evidence did the FBI have against Hatfill? There was none, so the agency did a Hail Mary, importing two bloodhounds from California whose handlers claimed could sniff the scent of the killer on the anthrax-tainted letters. These dogs were shown to Hatfill, who promptly petted them. When the dogs responded favorably, their handlers told the FBI that they’d “alerted” on Hatfill and that he must be the killer.



I think in this case we see much the same processes going on: media-whipped hysteria, pressure to find and convict, the cobbling together of bits and pieces pf "evidence" into a damning but false picture.

Does anyone remember when the last "hot thing" about the so-called Russia conspiracy was the fact that some bank in Russia "pinged" Trump Tower? No? On such was all of this hysteria built.

So far, what I see is that there is no evidence of ... let's not use the word "collusion" since that's not a crime, let's use the word "conspiracy" which is a more meaningful term ... between Russia and the Trump campaign. A lot of hot air and many many wasted bytes. I'm still waiting for Julian Assange to testify.

When Trump bleachbits an entire server of subpoenaed emails, accepts hundreds of millions of dollars of "charitable donations" from foreign entities while running for office, pays for dirt FROM THE RUSSIANS on his political rival, and cooks up a secret uranium deal with the Russians, let me know.


---------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, August 25, 2018 10:05 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
LET'S NOT FORGET THAT MUELLER AND COMEY HOUNDED AN INNOCENT MAN IN THE ANTHRAX CASE WHILE IGNORING THE REAL PERP.

There is an organization which handles situations such as you mention called The Innocence Project. If Trump is ever convicted of anything (which I don't think will happen since he or V.P. Pence will pardon Trump) the Innocence Project will help Trump prove his innocence and get him released from Federal prison for income tax evasion or whatever that crook did.
www.innocenceproject.org/cases/

Is Trump a well-known crook? Maybe:

Trump’s empty-box tax scam
www.forbes.com/sites/ryanellis/2016/03/08/donald-trump-and-the-empty-j
ewelry-box-tax-scam/#3cbaf3bd6a6b


money laundering at his casinos
www.reuters.com/article/trump-ent-trumptajmahal-moneylaundering-idUSL1
N0VL2L120150211


racial discrimination in his apartments
www.nytimes.com/times-insider/2015/07/30/1973-meet-donald-trump/

Federal Trade Commission violations for his stock purchases
www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/donald-trump-fine-ftc-sec-stocks/

Securities and Exchange Commission violations for his financial reporting
www.wsj.com/articles/SB101119802590296360

Trump was caught engaging in illegal racial discrimination to please a mob boss
http://gawker.com/trumps-casino-was-fined-650-000-for-catering-to-a-ra
ci-1763293532


Trump’s personal and professional connections to the mafia
www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-mob-organize
d-crime-213910


Trump pays $25,000,000 fine
www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-university-settlement-approved-go
nzalo-curiel-236756


Trump even robbed a woman of $19,000. Classic Trump move.
www.vox.com/first-person/2017/5/30/15693016/trump-university-settlemen
t-lawsuit


Trump has spent his entire career breaking various laws, getting caught, and then essentially plowing ahead unharmed.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, August 25, 2018 11:57 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


OH, DEAR, SECOND. You seem to have lost the thread about your own hysteria!

I thought the problem was RUSSIA!!! RUSSIA!!! RUSSIA!!!

What's the matter? That fake news not working out well for you? Decided to engage in a bit of goalpost-moving, did you?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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