REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Irma

POSTED BY: WISHIMAY
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 22:28
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 8135
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Sunday, September 10, 2017 5:44 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
It’s easy to forget that South Florida was once America’s last frontier, generally dismissed as an uninhabitable and undesirable wasteland, almost completely unsettled well after the West was won. “How far, far out of the world it seems,” Iza Hardy wrote in an 1887 book called Oranges and Alligators: Sketches of South Florida. And Hardy ventured only as far south as Orlando, which is actually central Florida, nearly 250 miles north of Miami. Back then, only about 300 hardy pioneers lived in modern-day South Florida. Miami wasn’t even incorporated as a city until 1896.

There was really just one reason South Florida remained so unpleasant and so empty for so long: water. The region was simply too soggy and swampy for development. Its low-lying flatlands were too vulnerable to storms and floods. As a colorful governor with the colorful name of Napoleon Bonaparte Broward put it: “Water is the common enemy of the people of Florida.”

So in the 20th century, Florida (the U.S. government paying the tab) declared war on its common enemy, vowing to subdue Mother Nature, eventually making vast swaths of floodplains safe for Trump to build golf courses. Water control—paid for by the Federal Government, and Social Security checks—also paid by the Federal Government, enabled the spectacular growth of South Florida.

But sometimes, as we’re about to be reminded, water and Mother Nature can’t be controlled.

www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/09/08/hurricane-irma-florida-2155
86


is it Miami that is mostly landfill?

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Sunday, September 10, 2017 6:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Poopypants Al Roker showning Naples with ocean 30 feet below low tide, and another showing Tampa at 15 feet below low tide. Lots of islands appearing where none have been before.

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Sunday, September 10, 2017 6:15 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

is it Miami that is mostly landfill?

Before moving to Texas, I lived in Miami until I was 13. Miami built on the land as it was for thousands of years, not raising the level at all. The Miami Herald has an alarming map showing what might be left of Florida when the sea level rises by 15 feet. It was about global warming, but a storm surge does the same, except only for a week, not forever.

www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article172347252.html

Another map of Florida elevations: https://pubs.usgs.gov/sim/3047/downloads/SIM3047.pdf

The family home on Google streetview: https://goo.gl/maps/NbceEMJoSH42 The street is at almost the same elevation as the terrazzo floors. The lawn is the original coral rock covered by only 3 inches of sod. Nothing was raised to prevent flooding.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, September 10, 2017 6:19 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Makes one wonder how Seminoles and other Native Americans survived hurricanes for centuries. They had teepees, right? No permanent structures in Fla, what's the highest ground in the peninsula? No weatherguessers except medicinemen and spirit dancers?



I'm pretty sure it was because there weren't shady people building teepee parks on worthless land in the valley's and selling it to idiots.

I'm sure quite a few of the dumber indians at some point were washed away to never be heard from again. Their dumb genes were eliminated from the pool and nobody ever lived in the valley again until after Christopher Columbus found America on accident.

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Sunday, September 10, 2017 7:17 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Makes one wonder how Seminoles and other Native Americans survived hurricanes for centuries. They had teepees, right? No permanent structures in Fla, what's the highest ground in the peninsula? No weatherguessers except medicinemen and spirit dancers?


I'm pretty sure it was because there weren't shady people building teepee parks on worthless land in the valley's and selling it to idiots.

I'm sure quite a few of the dumber indians at some point were washed away to never be heard from again. Their dumb genes were eliminated from the pool and nobody ever lived in the valley again until after Christopher Columbus found America on accident.

How do you make a teepee withstand 100 mph winds?
Is there any valley in Fla?

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Sunday, September 10, 2017 8:19 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

How do you make a teepee withstand 100 mph winds?



I'm sure you don't. It's a teepee... Build another one.

My point was more about the natives not living in a material world where property was bought and sold in terrible places that nobody should live back in a time and place where nobody owned any property and the weak weren't always bailed out. Survival of the fittest. I'm sure plenty of people died from nature all of the time and nobody thought twice about it besides praying to their totems or whatever. It was their normal.


Quote:

Is there any valley in Fla?


Florida is the valley in Florida.

Quote:

“The average elevation in Florida is 6 feet,” London said. “Some places are as little as 3 feet above sea level. And sea level is going to rise as all that ice in the Arctic melts.”


http://www.climatecentral.org/news/the-future-is-now-for-sea-level-ris
e-in-south-florida





Compare that to my state...

Quote:

Elevation ranges from 600 to 1,000 feet (180 to 300 metres) (and more) above sea level. Forests and farmland line Central Indiana's gently rolling plains and river valleys. The highest point in Indiana is Hoosier Hill, at 1,257 feet (383 m) above sea level in northern Wayne County.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Indiana

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Sunday, September 10, 2017 8:38 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Just saw news show Irma down to Cat 2 before eye touched Florida coast.
Track shows down to Cat 1 about halfway up the west coast, then barely SW corner of GA, and NE corner of MS.



Yes, but they have still recorded gusts of 142, and sustained winds of 98.
That's not nothin'.

AND they are only on first pass, the bulk is going to swing back around and do it again. People have been going outside thinking it is over when it's not.

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Sunday, September 10, 2017 10:16 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



For what it's worth, Sept 10 is historically the peak time of activity for hurricane season. So going by the record books, we're smack dab in normal town.

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Sunday, September 10, 2017 10:55 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Saw on my Twitter feed that a sheriff down in Florida is telling people NOT to fire their guns into the storm.



It is sad that it is entirely necessary to tell people not to shoot their guns into the storm.

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Monday, September 11, 2017 1:01 AM

6STRINGJOKER


lol... nothing surprises me these days.

I wasn't expecting to see those warnings, but right after you said it happened I see the need for people to be warned.

My only question is, how many more people are trying to shoot at the storm that wouldn't have done it before the warning went out?

I bet the answer is that more people did it because of the warning than would have done it if the warning never was made.

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Monday, September 11, 2017 9:23 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It seems the storm surge wasn't as bad as expected, so not many deaths. (One recorded so far - by a falling tree.) But a lot of property damage.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Monday, September 11, 2017 3:42 PM

REAVERFAN


I'm relieved. It could have been much worse.

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Monday, September 11, 2017 4:22 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Where is the Josie thread?

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Monday, September 11, 2017 6:13 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I heard news say that Irma got to about Tampa, then hooked a right and East to cross the state, through Orlando.

If understood correctly, once over the Atlantic, might regain power and hit farther north on the East Coast.

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Monday, September 11, 2017 11:02 PM

WISHIMAY


Well, my relatives that live in Naples are ok, no power, and the surge didn't get into the house, surprisingly (that's where the eye was). My bro went to inlaws in the Carolina's and says he can't go back because there's no gas in pretty much the entire south of Florida. I don't know if the tanks are sealed and water gets in and ruins it, or if they literally used everything that was left??

I can't imagine sitting around all day in 90 degree heat and no power, running water, food rotting, nothing to watch. I don't know why they didn't come up.

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Monday, September 11, 2017 11:10 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Where is the Josie thread?



Jose is a Cat 1 with 75 mph winds, and they don't have a clue where it will go next. Not much to say.

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Monday, September 11, 2017 11:16 PM

WISHIMAY


Here's something scary....the winter AFTER the 1935 hurricane was bad, followed by a really bad summer...


I hope we don't follow THAT...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_North_American_cold_wave

The 1936 North American cold wave ranks among the most intense cold waves in recorded North American meteorological history. The states of the Midwest United States and the Prairie Provinces of Canada were hit the hardest, and only the Southwest and California largely escaped its effects. February 1936 was the coldest month on record in the states of North Dakota, South Dakota, and Minnesota, and rivals February 1899 as the coldest February on record for the continent as a whole.

The 1930s had previously seen some of the mildest winters in recorded North American climatic history – 1930/1931 in the northern Plains and Western Canada, 1931/1932 in the East, 1932/1933 in New England and 1933/1934 in the Western United States.[1] The northern plains had during the previous eleven years experienced six of their ten warmest Februaries between 1895 and 1976 – those of 1925, 1926, 1927, 1930, 1931 and 1935[2] – with only February 1929 being severe during this period.

Despite a warm March over most areas east of the Rockies, the extended winter from October to March was the fifth-coldest on record over the conterminous United States and the coldest since 1917.[3]

The cold wave was followed by one of the hottest summers on record, the 1936 North American heat wave.

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 12:17 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Well, my relatives that live in Naples are ok, no power, and the surge didn't get into the house, surprisingly (that's where the eye was). My bro went to inlaws in the Carolina's and says he can't go back because there's no gas in pretty much the entire south of Florida. I don't know if the tanks are sealed and water gets in and ruins it, or if they literally used everything that was left??

I can't imagine sitting around all day in 90 degree heat and no power, running water, food rotting, nothing to watch. I don't know why they didn't come up.

Have heard many reports that there is no gas anywhere, even when gouging was in effect. Tanker trucks couldn't go there, risk being stranded, and greater demand for fuel than ever before.

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 12:23 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Here's something scary....the winter AFTER the 1935 hurricane was bad, followed by a really bad summer...


I hope we don't follow THAT...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_North_American_cold_wave

The 1936 North American cold wave ranks among the most intense cold waves in recorded North American meteorological history. The states of the Midwest United States and the Prairie Provinces of Canada were hit the hardest, and only the Southwest and California largely escaped its effects. February 1936 was the coldest month on record in the states of North Dakota, South Dakota, and Minnesota, and rivals February 1899 as the coldest February on record for the continent as a whole.

The 1930s had previously seen some of the mildest winters in recorded North American climatic history – 1930/1931 in the northern Plains and Western Canada, 1931/1932 in the East, 1932/1933 in New England and 1933/1934 in the Western United States.[1] The northern plains had during the previous eleven years experienced six of their ten warmest Februaries between 1895 and 1976 – those of 1925, 1926, 1927, 1930, 1931 and 1935[2] – with only February 1929 being severe during this period.

Despite a warm March over most areas east of the Rockies, the extended winter from October to March was the fifth-coldest on record over the conterminous United States and the coldest since 1917.[3]

The cold wave was followed by one of the hottest summers on record, the 1936 North American heat wave.

Could that have been affected by the Dust Bowl, starting in 1934?

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 1:45 AM

WISHIMAY


I don't know. Could be. All I know is that a lot of the weirder extreme weather we get runs in about 80ish year cycles...here, anyway. Every time grandma says "we haven't had x be this bad since I was a kid" I pay attention.

The other thing is, we're due for an ass kicking winter.


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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 6:05 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Where is the Josie thread?



Out to sea, and apparently not coming to the mainland

Here in ATL, lights flickered a few times, but power never went out. No trees that I can see in the immediate vicinity toppled. News has images of some large ones having fallen over, and on yeah, the " city " is officially closed ( I'm assuming the govt ) , but otherwise all is well. Mostly.

This was no Opal.

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 9:07 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:

The other thing is, we're due for an ass kicking winter.




I hope not.

My kick ass monster of a snowblower is up to the task, but I can't say the same for my 1959 Janitrol POS furnace.... or my car, for that matter. :(

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 2:05 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Where is the Josie thread?


Out to sea, and apparently not coming to the mainland

Here in ATL, lights flickered a few times, but power never went out. No trees that I can see in the immediate vicinity toppled. News has images of some large ones having fallen over, and on yeah, the " city " is officially closed ( I'm assuming the govt ) , but otherwise all is well. Mostly.

This was no Opal.

Last night I heard Irma was 800 miles wide, from Memphis to Norfolk.

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 7:22 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Last night I heard Irma was 800 miles wide, from Memphis to Norfolk.




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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 11:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Looks like Irma has touched Chicagoland.

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Tuesday, September 12, 2017 11:51 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:


1959 Janitrol POS furnace...



Those infrared heaters are fairly cheap and work pretty well, maybe well enough to keep pipes from freezing.

My kid has one and it keeps that half of the house toasty.

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Wednesday, September 13, 2017 8:44 AM

6STRINGJOKER


I've been on the fence about those IR heaters for so long. They're a bit pricey still, but the electricity costs are super cheap compared to other electric heaters.

I'm just waiting for the stories to come out about how they cause cancer since they basically work the same way as a microwave does. Although, those stories could just be blamed on the IR heaters when it's actually long term use of cell phones that are frying our insides.

That's probably a good idea for the crawl space where my NW pipes are located. They've froze on me twice, but no bursting yet. Right now I have an older oil based one that costs a few bucks a day to run down there and only turn it on when it dips below -10 outside. I could have the IR ones on all winter and the flooring on the 1st floor should be nice and toasty.

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Wednesday, September 13, 2017 12:29 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
They've froze on me twice, but no bursting yet.



You know there are long heat tapes that wrap around the pipes that you plug in and they only turn on when it gets to freezing temps? Letting your pipes freeze makes them more prone to pop in the future. They run about $30 for basic models. Or at the very least they make fa-noodle looking styrofoam things that tape to pipes for like $5. Do SOMETHING with 'em.

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Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:32 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I've been on the fence about those IR heaters for so long. They're a bit pricey still, but the electricity costs are super cheap compared to other electric heaters.

I'm just waiting for the stories to come out about how they cause cancer since they basically work the same way as a microwave does. Although, those stories could just be blamed on the IR heaters when it's actually long term use of cell phones that are frying our insides.

That's probably a good idea for the crawl space where my NW pipes are located. They've froze on me twice, but no bursting yet. Right now I have an older oil based one that costs a few bucks a day to run down there and only turn it on when it dips below -10 outside. I could have the IR ones on all winter and the flooring on the 1st floor should be nice and toasty.

InfraRed frequency power is not the same as RadioFrequency power. RF is what microwave oven use. IR is part of the visible range for much of the animal kingdom. Do you feel that blue light, or green light, or orange light is detrimental to your health?
If so, get a better foil to make your hat from, and use sunscreen to protect from IR.

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Tuesday, September 26, 2017 6:35 PM

OONJERAH


Will someone start a thread for Maria, or can she be discussed here?

On the 19th, Maria tried to wipe out Puerto Rico and did a
pretty good job of it.

Relevance: It's a US protectorate, mostly Spanish speaking
folks, but also many US expats. Some think it oughta be our
51st state. Trump has pooh-poohed the notion of sending
help to them. Congress is sending help anyways.

Prior problem: the place was seriously run down to begin with.
Like their gov't really has NO money, the people have no jobs
or what?



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Tuesday, September 26, 2017 7:03 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Will someone start a thread for Maria, or can she be discussed here?




You can discuss anything you like, Oon, but I don't think there is much general knowledge in this pool about Puerto Rico to be had.

I feel bad for them, but I'm not sure taking on another broke country is going to do us or them any good. Our economy just isn't as resilient as it used to be...It's quite clear most of these islands should not be inhabited by people in average housing. You can use the "this kind of disaster level is rare" argument, but the fact remains it will happen again. Doing the same thing over and over is the definition of insanity. I think many of the people on these devastated islands should find a new living, and THAT we can help them do.... Sometimes, life's a beach and sometimes life's a bitch. Prepare or perish.

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Tuesday, September 26, 2017 7:20 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Will someone start a thread for Maria, or can she be discussed here?

You can discuss anything you like, Oon, but I don't think there is much general knowledge in this pool about Puerto Rico to be had.

I feel bad for them, but I'm not sure taking on another broke country is going to do us or them any good. Our economy just isn't as resilient as it used to be...It's quite clear most of these islands should not be inhabited by people in average housing. You can use the "this kind of disaster level is rare" argument, but the fact remains it will happen again. Doing the same thing over and over is the definition of insanity. I think many of the people on these devastated islands should find a new living, and THAT we can help them do.... Sometimes, life's a beach and sometimes life's a bitch. Prepare or perish.

Puerto Rico is another country?
Or SodomQueen got confused about the 58 States of America?

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Tuesday, September 26, 2017 7:48 PM

OONJERAH


When I don't know stuff, I Wiki it & hope the Wiki contributor
is better educated than me.

"The United States currently has sixteen territories. Five of
them are permanently inhabited and are classified as unincorporated
territories: Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands in the
Caribbean; Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands in the Marianas
archipelago in the western North Pacific Ocean; and American Samoa
in the South Pacific. They are organized, self-governing territories
with locally elected governors and territorial legislatures. Each
also elects a non-voting member (or resident commissioner) to the U.S.
House of Representatives ...
"The eleven other territories are small islands, atolls and reefs,
also spread across the Caribbean and Pacific, with no native or
permanent populations."

If we don't make the 5 unincorporated territories into US states,
is it because they are too impoverished to pay taxes? Need to be
developed? hmmm.

Anyways, this is personal. I've got a pal living in PR; haven't
heard from him in a week. ... Yes, I know: power & phones still
out; many roads treacherous. ... When it hit, I thought communi-
cations would be back up in 2 days. :(





... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Tuesday, September 26, 2017 8:24 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Although I don't conjure there is a country separate fro

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Tuesday, September 26, 2017 8:27 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Although I don't conjure there is a country separate from US known as The United State of Puerto Rico, I do wish your pal the best. A little communication restriction is better than some alternatives.

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Tuesday, September 26, 2017 10:28 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Although I don't conjure there is a country separate from US known as The United State of Puerto Rico, I do wish your pal the best. A little communication restriction is better than some alternatives.




Yes, I know that P.R. is a US territory, Rusty Junk. I'm speaking from a purely geographic point of view, seeing as the vast majority of Americans will not ever go to P.R., or have any desire to go there, or be responsible for it.

I'm one of 'em. We got enough problems. After speaking to my aunt about how Florida is doing still, it's naïve to think we can do much anyway.

Good luck to your friend, Oon. He prolly should have left, though.



.

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