REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Dystopia! Are we there yet?

POSTED BY: OONJERAH
UPDATED: Saturday, December 11, 2021 07:00
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VIEWED: 4233
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Tuesday, May 30, 2017 6:20 PM

OONJERAH


When I was a child, the Husband was the bread winner; the
Wife was the HomeMaker. Nowadays, there're way more families
where both parents have to work to make ends meet.

What was it that drove the cost of living up & changed our way of life?

See Rollerball, 1975, James Caan, John Houseman
(I saw it 1st at the theatre. Being socially dense, I didn't understand
it. But it was great anyways. I understand it better now: they weren't
living in a Democracy.)

Somewhere along the line, we lost respect, values.
Maybe more accurately: we didn't impart our respect & values to our kids.

The TV did ... now the Internet does.

"Dystopia: an imagined place or state in which everything is unpleasant
or bad, typically a totalitarian or environmentally degraded one."

Dystopia! Are we there yet?
https://wordndwhimsy.wordpress.com/2017/02/22/dystopia-are-we-there-ye
t
/

"Nineteen Eighty-Four. Brave New World. We. Fahrenheit 451.
Classic dystopian novels ..."

A few dystopian movies:
Metropolis, Soylent Green, Logan's Run(not Wolverine), Blade Runner, the Matrix,
Mad Max II, Escape from New York, RoboCop, the Running Man.


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Tuesday, May 30, 2017 6:41 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well ... wages started topping out in the 70's. That's when the rest of the world finally recovered from WWII and started giving American manufacturing some competition. It's easy to feel optimistic when working hard gets you constant improvement. (Other graphs I've found indicate falling wages after the 70's. It probably depends on the population selection - full time/ part time/ seasonal/ employee/ contractor.)



In the meantimes we've seen inflation, stagflation, depressions and recessions, recovery-less recessions like now (coming after the American family lost 1/3 their accumulated wealth), high unemployment rates, lack of jobs ... the 'gig' economy ...




People have been anxious for a long time in a most fundamental way.




Originally posted by G: "I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago." G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.
You have a very treasonous view of how justice in the US should work, THUGGER. In fact, you have many other treasonous views as well. You hate the election process and want to void it.

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Tuesday, May 30, 2017 8:25 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:


Somewhere along the line, we lost respect, values.
Maybe more accurately: we didn't impart our respect & values to our kids.

The TV did ... now the Internet does.




How does one "impart values" to another? And what values are you referring to?

Hard work? You are just as disposable to a company now if you ARE the hardest worker. The difference in NOW and a hundred years ago is you could work for yourself and actually have something to show for it. It's no longer possible to manufacture goods in quality and affordability in pace with a factory. Learning a skill or trade? Why bother, when there is a Wal-mart down the road and they take most anybody? Or spend your life learning a skill for it to become obsolete and cheaply replaced?

Religion? I think all the people being diddled by "religious leaders" probably have had the biggest hand in shooting themselves in that foot.
I also think Media has had a big effect in getting people to realize what a Fairy Tale is when they hear it. I mean, when you open with a talking snake...

Family? Who needs toxic relatives when you have social media and you can talk to people who actually LIKE you and not just people who want to passive-aggressively run your life?? We are no longer social slaves to our family circle, and I for one couldn't be happier about that. We also no longer respect people DUE to social media, too, because we know what people are up to and we've killed all our heroes. If they could be called "heroes" to begin with...

Also, had I not been physically impaired, I would have LOVED to have gotten a job and not been chained to the stove. I don't think chaining women to the house and children was a good thing. Sure everyone is better fed and more secure, but "Mommy" was crazy a lot, too. I'm glad we have choices in that, and also in not breeding 12 kids.






You can't impart a value to another person when it NO LONGER has value, and just maybe they weren't that valuable all along...

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Tuesday, May 30, 2017 9:37 PM

OONJERAH


With 7.5 billion people now living on our wee planet,
why would anyone want to have children? ... or put it
another way, the ancient role model of "Man + Woman
should have many kids" is out of date.

But if couples do have children, then it's best to have
a parent at home whenever the children are home.

My notion is that kids grow into responsible adults
most likely when they are raised by caring parents.

No ... I'm not gonna start on Religion/brainwashing.
I love to argue about it, but have already whacked it
around in here to my own satisfaction.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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Tuesday, May 30, 2017 9:55 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
But if couples do have children, then it's best to have
a parent at home whenever the children are home.

My notion is that kids grow into responsible adults
most likely when they are raised by caring parents.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Well ... perhaps. The human race has spent most of its time on the planet at the edge of survival. Quite often the elderly look after the children, because as an able-bodied productive adult, women are too valuable to waste minding children.

I'd argue that a stable secure environment, being raised by a stable, secure adult, in a society that values its members instead of treating them like disposable parts, probably creates the best environment for children, whether the mother is home or not.




Originally posted by G: "I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago." G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.
You have a very treasonous view of how justice in the US should work, THUGGER. In fact, you have many other treasonous views as well. You hate the election process and want to void it.

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Tuesday, May 30, 2017 10:18 PM

OONJERAH


In the olde days, before me, before the 20th century,
Families in one (large?) house were usually of 3 generations,
maybe even 4.

And while that wasn't pre-industrial anymore, I'll guess
that 70-80% of families still farmed ... if not 60 acres
anymore, then maybe just one.

Gramma be watching the kids that were too young to work.


{ Gee whiz ... the stuff you can learn from
  reading just a wee bit of genealogy. }



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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Wednesday, May 31, 2017 12:41 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
In the olde days, before me, before the 20th century,
Families in one (large?) house were usually of 3 generations,
maybe even 4.

And while that wasn't pre-industrial anymore, I'll guess
that 70-80% of families still farmed ... if not 60 acres
anymore, then maybe just one.




Yeah, but out of survival. It was just easier to have more hands to make and hunt and prepare food. I can't count the number of times I have thought "I wish I lived in a collective group where people took turns cooking, so I could do something else once in a while." I can't imagine how hard it must have been for frontier women. Thankfully, we have frozen pizza now

I don't think everyone living in one house IS a good thing. Pretty much every sociological study agrees that people need a certain amount of personal space for good mental health. Unless you are one of those neurotic people who always have to have commotion, anyway. My mo-in-law is one of THOSE. She thinks if the house is full then everyone MUST be happy because we are together, unfortunately I know the more of them are around the more backstabbing, attention-whoring, micro-managing crap is going on. They call that "family time"??? I don't get it

I think maybe you think we've moved out of "Traditional Values" but I think we've just learned to value our own space and time. I would have been beyond miserable in a multi-generational house, free babysitting or no... In fact, if I had still had to have been living with people that constantly and hypocritically badgered me to go to church, I would rather be dead or homeless...so there you go...


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Wednesday, May 31, 2017 1:15 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Anyway, compared to decades ago we do seem to be living in dystopia. And it's been going on for a long time. But I don't see it to this degree in other countries. So maybe it's not tv or media, or modern family arrangements.




Originally posted by G: "I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago." G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.
You have a very treasonous view of how justice in the US should work, THUGGER. In fact, you have many other treasonous views as well. You hate the election process and want to void it.

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Thursday, June 1, 2017 7:37 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
When I was a child, the Husband was the bread winner; the
Wife was the HomeMaker. Nowadays, there're way more families
where both parents have to work to make ends meet.

What was it that drove the cost of living up & changed our way of life?

See Rollerball, 1975, James Caan, John Houseman
(I saw it 1st at the theatre. Being socially dense, I didn't understand
it. But it was great anyways. I understand it better now: they weren't
living in a Democracy.)

Somewhere along the line, we lost respect, values.
Maybe more accurately: we didn't impart our respect & values to our kids.

The TV did ... now the Internet does.

"Dystopia: an imagined place or state in which everything is unpleasant
or bad, typically a totalitarian or environmentally degraded one."

Dystopia! Are we there yet?
https://wordndwhimsy.wordpress.com/2017/02/22/dystopia-are-we-there-ye
t
/

"Nineteen Eighty-Four. Brave New World. We. Fahrenheit 451.
Classic dystopian novels ..."

A few dystopian movies:
Metropolis, Soylent Green, Logan's Run(not Wolverine), Blade Runner, the Matrix, Mad Max II, Escape from New York, RoboCop, the Running Man.

Add Harrison Bergeron, Idiocracy.

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Thursday, June 1, 2017 9:26 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I'v seen all the moviez on your list, Oonj. All great. I own all exept Metropolis on DVD or BR, plus several other dystopian filmz, such az Idiocrasy.

Hadnt herd uv Harrison Bergeron befor, JSF. I'm ordering it now!

I think we are about 75% along the way to Idiocrasy. Up 5% sins Trump wun the election.

The Hunger Gamez moviez show a possible future we coud be heded for. I didnt read the books, but I suppoze therez more about the history between now & then explaining the tranzition.

The Road iz a good follow up after watching the Road Warrior filmz.



----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Thursday, June 1, 2017 9:58 PM

6STRINGJOKER


I didn't even know that there was a Harrison Burgeron movie. I read the short story about 5 or 6 times over the years. Vonnegut was a great writer. Did you ever read "Breakfast of Champions"? I love that book.

Quote:


“As I approached my fiftieth birthday, I had become more and more enraged and mystified by the idiot decisions made by my countrymen. And then I had come suddenly to pity them, for I understood how innocent and natural it was for them to behave so abominably, and with such abominable results: They were doing their best to live like people invented in story books. This was the reason Americans shot each other so often: It was a convenient literary device for ending short stories and books.

Why were so many Americans treated by their government as though their lives were as disposable as paper facial tis-sues? Because that was the way authors customarily treated bit-part players in their made-up tales.

And so on.Once I understood what was making America such a dangerous, unhappy nation of people who had nothing to do with real life, I resolved to shun storytelling. I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order, instead, which I think I have done. If all writers would do that, then perhaps citizens not in the literary trades will understand that there is no order in the world around us, that we must adapt ourselves to the requirements of chaos instead. It is hard to adapt to chaos, but it can be done. I am living proof of that: It can be done.”

- Kurt Vonnegut Jr., Breakfast of Champions





edit: sorry, had computer problems right after posting that bad post. I fixed the quote so you can actually read it now.

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Thursday, June 1, 2017 10:13 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Short based on the same story:



----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Thursday, June 1, 2017 10:19 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Havent red it. I see therez a movie from 1999 based on it.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Thursday, June 1, 2017 10:47 PM

RIVERLOVE


Dystopian society movies were all the rage in the 1970's. I wonder why. Perhaps it had something to do with the Nixon/Watergate malaise.


Silent Running (1972)

Soylent Green (1973)

The Stranger (1973) (tv movie)

Genesis II (1973) (tv movie)

The Starlost (1973) (tv series)

Planet Earth (1974) (tv movie)

Zardoz (1974)

Rollerball (1975)

A Boy And His Dog (1975)

Logan's Run (1976)



I just realized I got married in 1975, right in the middle of all that hopelessness stuff. Damn, now it all makes sense!



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Thursday, June 1, 2017 11:06 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Ive seen or read everything on O's list. I don't think I've seen a single one on Riverlove's list though. I'll have to check those out.


Not exactly dystopian future here, but more of a dystopian timeloop. It is the movie that Groundhog day was ripped off from. I love Groundhog day too though, so I'm not really badmouthing Harold Ramis and Co about it.



Like the video says, skip to around :30 to start the movie and skip the stupid spoilers they showed right before it aired.

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Friday, June 2, 2017 6:58 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Amazing predictionz in Harrison Bergeron about "the last recession never stopped". And MY house being a plase for intellectualz to meet!!!

I watched it on Youtube. I tried to link to it, but its blocked and there duznt seem to be any way to just post a link to Youtube here rather than embedding it. Just watch the to rezult for 'full movie'.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Friday, June 2, 2017 8:17 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Amazing predictionz in Harrison Bergeron about "the last recession never stopped". And MY house being a plase for intellectualz to meet!!!

I watched it on Youtube. I tried to link to it, but its blocked and there duznt seem to be any way to just post a link to Youtube here rather than embedding it. Just watch the to rezult for 'full movie'.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com



Damn dude... I should have found a link to the story for you to read first. I've never seen the movie before, but you know how it is when you see the flick after you read the book.

The story wasn't that long, but it was probably my favorite high school assigned reading that I had. I also had to read it again in College and was glad that I did because I forgot what it was called or who it was by. I think I've read it at least 3-4 times since then.

I still recommend reading it, but you might not enjoy it as much since you watched it first.

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Friday, June 2, 2017 8:19 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Vonnegut - one of my fav authors many years ago. Try "Sirens of Titan" if you haven't. He reduces the whole of human kind to a necessary process to produce a single part for a downed alien space ship. Amazing mind.



That sounds interesting. I watch the Joe Rogan podcast on youtube quite a bit in the background when I'm working on my projects. He's said on a couple of occasions that he believes that humans are the reproductive organs of technology. It's a pretty fascinating theory and I wondered where he got it from. He talks to a lot of really interesting people so it might have even been from one of his podcasts. I wonder if Vonnegut was the first person to come up with that idea.

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Friday, June 2, 2017 12:11 PM

WISHIMAY


Hey, Oonj, I found that Dystopia you've been looking for, and it's not us living in our one generation house.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2017/06/02/generations-disabled
/?utm_term=.263230686dbc


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Friday, June 2, 2017 2:49 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Speaking of dystopia - the power went out - again - last night, for no apparent reason. That's, on average, once a month this year so far. When I was a kid, the power never went out unless there was a severe ice or wind storm.

We're gradually creeping into 3rd world status.




Originally posted by G: "I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago." G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.
You have a very treasonous view of how justice in the US should work, THUGGER. In fact, you have many other treasonous views as well. You hate the election process and want to void it.

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Friday, June 2, 2017 3:35 PM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Hey, Oonj, I found that Dystopia you've been looking for, and it's not us living in our one generation house.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2017/06/02/generations-disabled
/?utm_term=.263230686dbc




Why are they paying $300/mo. for cell phones when there are free phones for people in their situation? Even if there wasn't free cell phones, why are they paying $300/mo. for cell phones? Another $100/mo. for Cable TV. That's their mortgage and water bill right there.

Magic Jack is $1.67/mo. and they already have cheap internet. They likely could get their internet reduced to only $10/mo. since most places have offers for that if you can prove you're on foodstamps. I'm willing to bet that with all those people in that house they're getting over $600/mo. in food stamps too.


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Wednesday, June 14, 2017 12:02 AM

OONJERAH


It's The Matrix, pt 1.
We're all living in these little cocoons ... dreaming our lives away.


But I know it's not true ... 'Cause if I had to go into one, I'd sign
up for only happy dreams & adventure dreams. In the adventure
dreams, I'd always be capable and unafraid.

Yep. This is the Real World.
But then ... why are we discussing it more than DOing it?

And if Neo is capable and unafraid, is he still in the cocoon?


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Wednesday, June 14, 2017 1:21 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:


Yep. This is the Real World.
But then ... why are we discussing it more than DOing it?



And THAT is the whole crux of the matter of life. Utopia is impossible, so we're left sitting and waiting. If this was 500 yrs ago, I would have been a gypsy or Indian. It's getting cold? I think I'll walk South.

Now we work just to keep existing. Vacations are just an expensive change of scenery.

It may not sound relevant, but I HATE when they make the kids do science projects. There is limited access to anything interesting and pretty much every chemical reaction is already known.

Just like this planet. We have limited access to most of it, and even if we do go somewhere, I'm sure 9000 pictures of it already exists on the internets.

Some days I think we MUST be hooked into pods that suck our energy. Can't think of any other reason we would exist... Don't have magic, can't get off the planet. It's just sooo limited.

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Saturday, February 8, 2020 8:26 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


A pedo Scotland Finance Secretary quits over reports he sleazy messaged 16-year-old boy hundreds of times?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/botswana-to-start-auction-of-elep
hant-hunting-licences/ar-BBZKMOP
Botswana to start auction of elephant hunting licences

Celebrity James Woods is back on social media after his ban?
"I was on vacation awhile, avoiding the news. How’d the #Mueller thing work out? The #impeachment scam? Who won the #Iowa caucuses? Is #MichaelAvenatti still a contender for the Democratic nomination for President? How’s #JeffreyEpstein doing?"
https://twitter.com/realjameswoods/status/1225625083898580993

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Saturday, February 8, 2020 9:17 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


"How's Jeffery Epstein doing?"

James Woods is awesome.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, December 11, 2021 7:00 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Biden: Highest inflation in 39 years means Congress must pass $2T spending bill

https://nypost.com/2021/12/10/biden-highest-inflation-in-years-means-c
ongress-must-pass-spending-bill
/

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