REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Is Trump Nuts?

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Sunday, January 28, 2024 11:22
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Tuesday, November 28, 2017 10:10 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I don't see what the problem was with him saying what he did here. He didn't sound like it was said in an insulting manner and Pocohontas was well thought of enough to be put on a US dollar coin for a time and have a Disney movie made of her.

He also said "they call her Pocohontas." No way of telling who "they" were from the 3 second clip they showed of the speech in this video.


I'm going to file this under "taken out of context" and "SJW bait".

Do Right, Be Right. :)




Excuse me Jack but the lady on the dollar coin was Sacagawea, not Pocohontas.



I stand corrected. My bad, Brenda. They still made a Disney movie with her though.

I don't see how that could be viewed as an insult, other than the fact it came out of Trump's mouth though. Could somebody explain to me what the insult was?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, November 28, 2017 10:45 PM

OONJERAH


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Excuse me Jack but the lady on the dollar coin was Sacagawea, not Pocohontas.



Red Women : White Men

Pocohontas, 1596-1617.
Bore 1 child, Thomas Rolfe.
Died in Gravesend, Kent, Kingdom of England.

Of course, back then, neither the Europeans nor the Native Americans had
any notion how susceptible they were to the many European illnesses,
small pox, for instance.

Sacagawea, 1788-1812.
"Sacagawea was a Lemhi Shoshone woman who is known for her help to the
Lewis and Clark Expedition in achieving their chartered mission objectives
by exploring the Louisiana Territory." ~Wikipedia

She also married a white man, Toussaint Charbonneau, & bore him 2 children.

If only they'd known what we bring, wouldn't they have patrolled their
eastern shores with war parties? ... It might not have helped, tho, as the
Spanish conquistadors assisted by Catholic priests were settling the western
shores of this continent. I believe the West saw Chinese & Russian settlers
at about the same time. Horses came, too.

What I also find interesting is the European-Native American trade off in drugs.
Whites introduce reds to alcohol, to which Red had no resistance or tolerance,
no doubt due to lack of acetyldehyde-dehydrogenase = a liver enzyme that converts
most of the alcohol to sugar. Meanwhile, the Indians gave us tobacco, which we
whites liked alot & grew extensively, then & now.

Me: Tho I don't tolerate alcohol too well, my tolerance for tobacco is nil. I dare
not take even 1 puff in lieu of instant addiction.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 1:53 AM

OONJERAH


In my Not humble opinion, Alcoholism is genetic in origin.
Dad was 1 of 7 children. The 6 siblings were all alcoholics who died in their 50's & 60's ... 'cept 1. His bro #2, I've seen him drunk out of his gourd. But I also know that he sobered up sometime, cause he lived to be 88 & outlived 'em all. Dad didn't drink much; his drug was gambling.
  His mother, oddly, used to refer to her mother-in-law as "that big Indian woman" in a tone of contempt. But I've got her picture with gr-grandpa. She's white on white; & he looks like a half-breed. We used to ask Dad from time to time if we had any Indian blood; he never would fess up.

  Back on topic: Yes, I believe d Trump is nuts ... but not in a good, creative way, not in a way that he can rise above it.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 5:56 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I'd really like for somebody to explain the insult that Trump made in the clip. I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I'm trying to understand exactly what was insulting about it.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 10:04 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'd really like for somebody to explain the insult that Trump made in the clip. I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I'm trying to understand exactly what was insulting about it.

I remember you claim you're smart. Figure it out yourself and while you're doing that, figure out what's wrong with what Trump just did. Trump went completely nuts this morning because, you know, he had free time on his hands since it’s Wednesday and he is not all that busy with being President:

Trump is retweeting a far-right British politician convicted of harassing Muslims
https://qz.com/1140996

In the middle of a morning Twitter spree that bragged about his economic performance, and attacked CNN and NBC, president Donald Trump retweeted three disturbing, unverified videos today.

One seems to show a boy being pushed off a roof somewhere in the Middle East. Another depicts a man shattering a gaudy sculpture of the Virgin Mary. The third shows a teenager beating up another teenage who’s holding a crutch. The tweets all highlight or claim that the culprits are “Muslim.”

The source of these tweets? Jayda Fransen, the deputy leader of the far-right Britain First party, known mainly for its “invasions” of mosques across the UK and “Christian patrols” that stoke tensions in areas with large Muslim populations.

Last year, Fransen was found guilty of religious aggravated harassment on just such a patrol. She admitted shouting at a local resident that Muslim women cover up to stop themselves being raped “because [Muslim men] cannot control their sexual urges,” adding “that’s why they are coming into my country raping women across the continent.” Defending herself in court, Fransen said: “The reason I said them was because from everything I have studied, I understand them to be true.” She later decried her nearly £2,000 fine as “Islamic appeasement.”

When asked in 2015 whether he endorses his retweets, Trump said: “Well I do retweets, and I mean, to a certain extent, I do, yeah. I think that’s right. Do you want me to say no? You know, I retweet, I retweet for a reason.”

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 11:07 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


No. I refuse to play your game. You tell me why that was an insult.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 12:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


If someone says ... You argue like a woman! that's only considered an insult if you think women are inferior beings.

Why did Trump (and others) call Elizabeth Warren "Pocahontas"? In this case, it was because Warren had made unverifiable claims that she was 1/32 Native American. The problem was Warren's family stories which were taken on the campaign trail, not Pocahontas, who was an innocent bystander in those exchanges.

Listening to Trump, I don't know if he was trying to make the code-talkers feel welcome by referring to a "potentially" native American in the Senate, or if he was taking a swipe at Warren for her ancestry claims.

Still, however it was meant, it was tone-deaf to cite Warren during a ceremony that SHOULD have been focused on the code-talkers. But just like being called a woman, calling someone Pocahontas is only an insult if you think she was an inferior human being. Personally, I would be vastly puzzled if anyone were to call ME Pocahontas, but also a little bit flattered.

So, MY impression is that it was cringingly tone-deaf of Trump. I feel that he doesn't know how to relate to groups of people who are outside of his NYC/ Miami social world. A little bit of thought and preparation and care would have eliminated that gaffe.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 12:53 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

A little bit of thought and preparation and care would have eliminated that gaffe.

Trump being thoughtful, prepared and careful? You are making a joke, right? Today, Trump clicks Jayda Fransen’s twitter feed. It’s got a big picture of Donald Trump on top! https://twitter.com/jaydabf He likes that. So he scrolls. Ooh, more videos of Muslims acting horrifically. Are they real? Well, they’re real enough if they come from the president of the United States! So he picks a few and retweets them. Then it’s back to his usual puerile boasting about the economy and rants against the fake news.

This is not normal, even for Trump. He’s not a subtle man, but he usually has the animal cunning to at least leave himself a veneer of deniability for his ethnic hatreds. This time, though, he goes full frontal. Why?

1. It’s his way of helping Roy Moore.

2. He wants people talking about this instead of the appalling tax bill Republicans are moving through Congress.

3. He’s officially gone from occasionally delusional to full crazy uncle.

4. Who the hell knows?

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/11/can-donald-trump-ever-go-too-fa
r
/

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 12:53 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Okay. I can run with it being a dumb thing to say, or a gaffe. I don't think Trumps the type who reads a bunch of crap that other people write for him like most politicians do. I could be wrong about that. I don't have any citations for it, and I wouldn't necessarily believe them anyhow.

It might have even been a dig at Warren. If that was the case, it was levied only at her and he mistakenly thought that people calling her Pocohontas would be a funny thing to say in the situation. (I agree. If this is the case, it was stupid thing to say in the situation. He may have been trying to break the ice but he wasn't out with his golf buddies.)

It most certainly wasn't an insult to the Native American people. I mean... WTF?

THIS is just another example of the complete loss of OBJECTIVITY in the media. Everything is a zero sum game about identity politics.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 1:24 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

It most certainly wasn't an insult to the Native American people. I mean... WTF?

THIS is just another example of the complete loss of OBJECTIVITY in the media. Everything is a zero sum game about identity politics.

Native Americans do not agree with you. And it is another example of you and Trump not knowing what the fuck you are talking about and not giving a shit to learn.

"Pocahontas is used a racial slur in the United States all the time," Andrew Curley, citizen of the Navajo Nation, told Newsweek. "I grew up with these kinds of remarks. It's not the name itself but the way it's used. Trump is using it to attack Senator [Elizabeth] Warren and belittle Native Americans at the same time. I take it as a personal insult."
www.newsweek.com/trump-pocahontas-native-americans-elizabeth-warren-ra
cial-slur-723858

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 1:48 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Native Americans do not agree with you. And it is another example of you and Trump not knowing what the fuck you are talking about and not giving a shit to learn.

"Pocahontas is used a racial slur in the United States all the time," Andrew Curley, citizen of the Navajo Nation, told Newsweek. "I grew up with these kinds of remarks. It's not the name itself but the way it's used. Trump is using it to attack Senator [Elizabeth] Warren and belittle Native Americans at the same time. I take it as a personal insult."
www.newsweek.com/trump-pocahontas-native-americans-elizabeth-warren-ra
cial-slur-723858



How many Native Americans live in the US and Canada?

You give me a quote from one of them and tell me that all Native Americans don't agree with me.

Zero Sum, anyone?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 2:38 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
No. I refuse to play your game. You tell me why that was an insult.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



Well then, add one more thing to the list Jack is clueless about.


T

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 2:40 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Tell me how it was a racial slur, T.

Be specific.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 4:24 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

How many Native Americans live in the US and Canada?
You give me a quote from one of them and tell me that all Native Americans don't agree with me.



Yes, one of the reasons why I took the "this should have focused on the code-talkers" approach is because that's what a Native American said on NPR. (Yes, I listen to NPR.) I would imagine that there are a diversity of opinions from Native Americans on the topic.

FWIW, as a clearly white American, I have never heard of Pocahontas being referred to in anything other than positive tones. Maybe I would have to be a Native American to hear the insult, but in my experience it isn't.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 8:07 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


You gotta love how one anecdotal story by one random American Indian in two countries is presented as the way all American Indians took that statement.

I think that sounds pretty racist to me.

That's the mode of the MSM and the regressionist, SJW left today. It's no different than assuming that all black people would automatically vote Democrat (watch youtube videos by black people concerning this topic if you want to know how racist they think that fallacy is).



I don't know who calls her Pocohontas, but it sounds to me as if they do because Warren decided at some point to make a big show of the fact that one of her great, great, great, great, great grandparents was American Indian as if to say "Hey guys, I'm one of you". That also sounds possibly racist to me, or at the very least she was guilty of even more identity politics.

"Hey, look at "Pocahontas" over there pandering for the American Indian votes".


I agreed that it was probably a stupid thing for Trump to say at the time and place that he said it, ESPECIALLY if this is why some people call her Pocahontas. But it wasn't a racial slur, and once again another pillar of the MSM makes an ass out of itself by completely abandoning any objectivity and reporting feels over facts. Why must they editorialize everything?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 11:11 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Sure it was - he tried to score buddy points by sharing with them that he used one of their more revered historical figures as a slur to insult someone, "We call (that bitch) Pochahontas!" You can argue that he's such a colossal a-hole that he just doesn't know any better - fine. Still an insult. Twice even.



Its 2 levelz uv complexity beyond wut the typical Trump supporter (including him & hiz family) can comprehend.


----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Thursday, November 30, 2017 7:02 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

How many Native Americans live in the US and Canada?

You give me a quote from one of them and tell me that all Native Americans don't agree with me.

Zero Sum, anyone?

You want quotes? Trump's Cabinet members, aides, and foreign policy experts are publicly saying Trump is fucking nuts, except more politely.

Is it a “disconnect” or is Trump nuts?

The disconnect over Russia between Trump and his top national security aides – national security adviser H. R. McMaster, Defense Secretary James Mattis, and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson – is not new, but it is bursting increasingly out into the open and showing signs of hampering decisionmaking.

“We’re really dealing with a picture where the president has certain instincts about Russia that are not shared by his national security team,” says Nikolas Gvosdev, a professor of national security affairs and Russia specialist at the US Naval War College in Newport, R.I. “The Russians are very confused by all of this, they don’t understand why the president hasn’t instructed his national security staff to reflect his views,” he says.

The normally deadpan Tillerson surprised many with the intensity of his criticism of Russian actions in a speech Tuesday at Washington’s Wilson International Center for Scholars. He cited the “malicious tactics” Russia has used against the US and its European allies – including election interference – that he said had plunged relations to the low levels of the cold war.

Referring to Russia’s invasions of Georgia and Ukraine, its politically motivated regional energy policies, and its cyberwarfare on US and other countries’ democratic elections, Tillerson said such actions “are not the behaviors of a responsible nation.”

Will Trump force his staff to believe as he believes or will he fire the staff? I think Trump will take the third way or the lazy man's way – let things drift aimlessly.

www.csmonitor.com/USA/Foreign-Policy/2017/1129/With-harsh-words-for-Ru
ssia-Tillerson-signals-another-Trump-team-rift

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Thursday, November 30, 2017 7:12 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


No second. I don't want quotes if they're not going to pertain to our discussion. Stop using every time I post as an opportunity to segway into something completely off topic. If you don't want to answer me then just post whatever you were going to post and stop quoting me.


Nobody has explained to me how this was a racial slur.


I guess we're going to just say that it wasn't then?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, November 30, 2017 7:26 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


He didn't even use it himself. He was saying that others call her Pocahontas.

I still don't know the back story about why she's called that, but I've heard that it was because she was identity politicking to the American Indians by making sure everyone knew that she was 1/32 American Indian so she could pander to that demographic.

I've already said it was a stupid thing for him to say. Still no reason why it was a racial slur.

Telling me "well if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you" is a cop out.


You won't tell me because you can't tell me. Because it wasn't a racial slur.



I find it hilarious that the three "educated" white guys on this board are getting so offended over nothing for all of the American Indians.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, December 4, 2017 11:23 PM

OONJERAH


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
I believe Trump is nuts. And I know that my opinion doesn't count for a hill of beans as I am Canadian.

So really all I can say is have fun guys with the crazy person. But I also pity you.



Hey don't underplay your opinion because you aren't American.

Trump is a narcissist first and dire most. His strategy, unfortunately successful, is to keep himself in the news by making outrageous statements. It distracts from anything important being discussed.



  Insightful. ... Thanks, MD. :)

... Yeah ...
It's obvious he's a narcissist. ... I didn't know he has strategy, tho.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Monday, December 4, 2017 11:42 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
I believe Trump is nuts. And I know that my opinion doesn't count for a hill of beans as I am Canadian.

So really all I can say is have fun guys with the crazy person. But I also pity you.



Hey don't underplay your opinion because you aren't American.

Trump is a narcissist first and dire most. His strategy, unfortunately successful, is to keep himself in the news by making outrageous statements. It distracts from anything important being discussed.



  Insightful. ... Thanks, MD. :)

... Yeah ...
It's obvious he's a narcissist. ... I didn't know he has strategy, tho.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...



I'll add this thought. Trump can't speak on any topic concerning the world today. Health care, taxes, foreign policy, you name it. He knows nothing about any subject he is supposed to make policy on. He tweets instead to deflect away from that.

I watched Obama sit in a room full of republicans and discuss health care one Saturday for 6 hrs. No way, and I mean no way, can Trump speak for five minutes coherently on any subject. The man's a jerk.

Believe me...


T

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Tuesday, December 5, 2017 1:46 AM

OONJERAH



  THGRRI, "He knows nothing about any subject he is supposed to make policy on."


That's kinda what I thought, but didn't know how to put it.

So of all the presidents we've had in over 200 years, Trump
may have broken the record for being the least qualified.


Way to Go, Blondie!
... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Tuesday, December 5, 2017 10:42 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
If Native Americans tell us they're offended then that's enough for me to respect it.



One did. One example given.

Brenda didn't even say it was a slur. She just said Trump was an asshole.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 5, 2017 10:59 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

  THGRRI, "He knows nothing about any subject he is supposed to make policy on."


That's kinda what I thought, but didn't know how to put it.

So of all the presidents we've had in over 200 years, Trump
may have broken the record for being the least qualified.


Way to Go, Blondie!
... oooOO}{OOooo ...



Qualifications are 35 years old and being a natural born citizen. Nothing more, nothing less.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 5, 2017 11:06 AM

OONJERAH


I found Trump to be an excellent asshole
before he even mentioned Pocahontas.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Tuesday, December 5, 2017 11:17 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Fair enough. I thought the same thing about Obama.

That didn't disqualify either of them from the position.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 5, 2017 11:23 AM

OONJERAH


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I don't see what the problem was with him saying what he did here. He didn't sound like it was said in an insulting manner and Pocohontas was well thought of enough to be put on a US dollar coin for a time and have a Disney movie made of her.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



A Disney movie for Pocahontas. OK.
Did you ever see Disney's "Song of the South"? I know the studio shelved
that one for decades ... maybe it's still "taboo."

I think if I were a code-talker & Trump said Pocahontas to me, I'd feel he
was being too patronizing.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Tuesday, December 5, 2017 11:36 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by G:
If Native Americans tell us they're offended then that's enough for me to respect it.



One did. One example given.

Brenda didn't even say it was a slur. She just said Trump was an asshole.



Because you labeled the media liars Jack you live in a bubble. It was all over the news why this was a bigoted statement. You stupidly post about it for days, a week, and haven't heard, nor learned about any of this. Why, because like Trump you fail to educate yourself on any given topic. You just spout out street conner bullshit. Like Trump, the first thing that comes to mind. It is the perfect metaphor for your input in these threads.

It is representative, symbolic, of your all encompassing ignorance. Opinions are abstract Jack. They should be based in wise and firm judgements. Yours are not. Even when G tries to educate you, you can't let go of your biases against knowledge long enough to learn something. Even though you asked him to explain it to you.

Something else is going on with Trump we haven't discussed in these threads. Something that is pertinent here. He is a stupid persons president. He is the most ignorant person to hold the position of president. Through his performance he shows on a daily bases he is woefully incompetent. Still, many of those who voted for him say he sounds just like me. Yes, he does, because they are stupid too.

T

Quote:


"The more people I meet the more it seems that most never bothered learning the basics. I am not asking anyone to be able to build nano-mites who eat dust to replace vacuums, or be able to explain quantum physics, but for goodness snake: Why can't you learn the basics?"




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Tuesday, December 5, 2017 12:06 PM

OONJERAH


Seems to me it was over 20 years ago, they took history out of public
schools. Most of it anyway. And a current history book that I saw at the
time had errors.

I suspect they took Civics out of high schools as well.
They unburdened the student body's developing intellect.

As if to say, "US citizens have no need of this knowledge."

But these subjects still are taught as electives in college, yes?


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Tuesday, December 5, 2017 4:30 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Seems to me it was over 20 years ago, they took history out of public
schools. Most of it anyway. And a current history book that I saw at the
time had errors.

I suspect they took Civics out of high schools as well.
They unburdened the student body's developing intellect.

As if to say, "US citizens have no need of this knowledge."

But these subjects still are taught as electives in college, yes?


... oooOO}{OOooo ...



Yes, taking a history class in college is still an option. And some still major in it.


T

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Tuesday, December 5, 2017 5:39 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Does anybody else find it extremely funny that in T's attempt to make everyone believe that Trump is a racist and he's the president of stupid people, that he has even outmatched Wishy as the most offensive person on this board in his constant personal attacks and espousal of hate?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 5, 2017 5:52 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by G:
If Native Americans tell us they're offended then that's enough for me to respect it.



One did. One example given.

Brenda didn't even say it was a slur. She just said Trump was an asshole.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



Jack, I explained how she found out that she was part Indian and that is how I found out. Family stories and sometimes that is all you have after so much time has passed.

It's like calling someone a "redskin" or "halfbreed". It means that we are less than a white person. We are still not viewed as being worthy.

So in a nutshell yes Jack it is a slur. I was offended and offended for the code talkers that were there to be honoured.




Sorry Brenda, but "it's like calling somebody a "redskin" or a "halfbreed" doesn't cut it for me. He didn't call her a redskin or a halfbreed. He's not Voldemort going around calling people mudbloods.

He said Pocahontas. He said that some people call her Pocahontas. Looks to me like it was nothing more than a miserably failed attempt at levity.

I've already said it wasn't a smart thing to say, and I'll even go as far as to say that it could be considered to be insensitive to some people, but it wasn't a racial slur and did not come from a place of hatred. I'm sorry you feel offended (although I will not apologize for him because I didn't say it).


Ask yourself this. If Obama were to have said the exact same thing, charmer that he was, do you think that you or anyone else would have thought claimed it was a racial slur? And before you say "oh... he wouldn't say that", we're talking in theoreticals here.

He's considered to be smarter, more charming, more likable and he's a black man. And he's a democrat. I think if it were mentioned by the MSM after the fact it would only be to say how cute of a moment it was.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 5, 2017 6:00 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Does anybody else find it extremely funny that in T's attempt to make everyone believe that Trump is a racist and he's the president of stupid people, that he has even outmatched Wishy as the most offensive person on this board in his constant personal attacks and espousal of hate?







T

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Wednesday, December 6, 2017 5:10 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Second: "He is addicted to drama, the opposite pole from No Drama Obama."

The Presidency as a soap opera in Real Life ...
Not just a silly movie this time?

This is scary to me like handing my car keys to a drunk teen-ager.

Many of us in the Olde School are really appalled ... I hadn't realized
that many don't know the difference between TV (both "reality TV" &
TV for entertainment) and Real Life. I should understand it, tho, since
I've often tried to make my real life more like fantasyland.

Since the election, my hope has been that he'll continue to offend so
often, so badly, that even the far right will reject him.
Isn't the Right s'posed to be Conservative, aka well-mannered?





... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.



One in three republicans want a different republican to run in the next presidential race.


T

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Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:20 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

One did. One example given.
Brenda didn't even say it was a slur. She just said Trump was an asshole.- SIX


Jack, I explained how she found out that she was part Indian and that is how I found out. Family stories and sometimes that is all you have after so much time has passed.

It's like calling someone a "redskin" or "halfbreed". It means that we are less than a white person. We are still not viewed as being worthy.
So in a nutshell yes Jack it is a slur. I was offended and offended for the code talkers that were there to be honoured. - BRENDA

Sorry Brenda, but "it's like calling somebody a "redskin" or a "halfbreed" doesn't cut it for me. He didn't call her a redskin or a halfbreed. He's not Voldemort going around calling people mudbloods.
He said Pocahontas. He said that some people call her Pocahontas. Looks to me like it was nothing more than a miserably failed attempt at levity.
I've already said it wasn't a smart thing to say, and I'll even go as far as to say that it could be considered to be insensitive to some people, but it wasn't a racial slur and did not come from a place of hatred. I'm sorry you feel offended (although I will not apologize for him because I didn't say it).
Ask yourself this. If Obama were to have said the exact same thing, charmer that he was, do you think that you or anyone else would have thought claimed it was a racial slur? And before you say "oh... he wouldn't say that", we're talking in theoreticals here. He's considered to be smarter, more charming, more likable and he's a black man. And he's a democrat. I think if it were mentioned by the MSM after the fact it would only be to say how cute of a moment it was. - SIX

I am going to take a page out of the President of the Navajo nation's book and try to teach. Going backwards.
1. If Obama ever said something that stupid and any democrat thought it was cute then that democrat should have been taken out and shot.- BRENDA

By whom? The MSM let go by the destruction of Libya, the attempted destruction of Syria, and Obama's drone warfare with its attendant blood-letting, ethnic cleansing, terrorism, and displacement without a word. So-called liberals and democrats did the same. The Nobel committee gave Obama a peace prize, just for being the first half-black American President, and didn't have the balls to take it back after he started so much violence and supported jihadist terrorists. Everybody gave Obama a big fat "pass" on all of the evil that he did, maybe because he was half-black, just like everybody (wrongly) gave Clarence Thomas the benefit of the doubt, just because HE was black. Identity politics at its worst.

Just my opinion.

Quote:

2. Obama has more intelligence in his little finger than Trump in his whole body inspite of having about 20years in age on Obama.- BRENDA
And what did he use that intelligence FOR? To sweet-talk the American people while he was busy waging secret/proxy/direct warfare all over the Middle East, bailing out the banks while screwing average Americans, and spying on just about everybody? Everybody gave Obama a big fat "pass" on all of the evil that he did.


Quote:

3. Obama grew up hearing that kind of garbage either spoken to his face or whispered behind his back. His own WHITE mother would have heard the same types of things or worse for marrying a black man.
He grew up in Indonesia. And everybody gave Obama a big fat "pass" on all of the evil that he did.


Quote:

4. If you go back and listen to some of Trump's speeches he uses the name Pocohontas himself and not "they call her that."
5. Have you never heard the word Mexican, Japanese or Chinese used with derision or snarled? Because the person using it doesn't like someone who isn't white. That is what made it an insult. He was being patronizing and condescending in front of those Elders and that was no place to take a jab at a political opponent.

I heard no snarl and no derision, so if this is all reduced to a "tone of voice" kind of thing, I heard a cringingly awkward attempt at trying to make people feel welcome. As I said before, if Trump wanted to reference an actual Native American in Congress, he could have referred to Markwayne Mullin, who is a registered Cherokee, or he should have just skipped the topic altogether. A little but of prep on Trump's part would have helped.

Quote:

Look up the comments made by the President of the Navajo nation. He said that Trump shouldn't have done that. He was there to thank them for their service to their country. Which as the President said is what any guest should have done.

But he did not say that it was a racist insult. What I HEARD was that there should have been no reference to Warren at all, because the focus SHOULD HAVE been on the Code Talkers.

I'm sorry that you feel offended, but I don't think offense was meant. I guess this is something that we'll just have to disagree on.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, December 6, 2017 9:42 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Yes, Sig. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.



Smart Brenda, you can't explain to people who are not capable of learning. Only of having intractable traits.


T

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Thursday, December 7, 2017 8:49 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

One did. One example given.
Brenda didn't even say it was a slur. She just said Trump was an asshole.- SIX


Jack, I explained how she found out that she was part Indian and that is how I found out. Family stories and sometimes that is all you have after so much time has passed.

It's like calling someone a "redskin" or "halfbreed". It means that we are less than a white person. We are still not viewed as being worthy.
So in a nutshell yes Jack it is a slur. I was offended and offended for the code talkers that were there to be honoured. - BRENDA

Sorry Brenda, but "it's like calling somebody a "redskin" or a "halfbreed" doesn't cut it for me. He didn't call her a redskin or a halfbreed. He's not Voldemort going around calling people mudbloods.
He said Pocahontas. He said that some people call her Pocahontas. Looks to me like it was nothing more than a miserably failed attempt at levity.
I've already said it wasn't a smart thing to say, and I'll even go as far as to say that it could be considered to be insensitive to some people, but it wasn't a racial slur and did not come from a place of hatred. I'm sorry you feel offended (although I will not apologize for him because I didn't say it).
Ask yourself this. If Obama were to have said the exact same thing, charmer that he was, do you think that you or anyone else would have thought claimed it was a racial slur? And before you say "oh... he wouldn't say that", we're talking in theoreticals here. He's considered to be smarter, more charming, more likable and he's a black man. And he's a democrat. I think if it were mentioned by the MSM after the fact it would only be to say how cute of a moment it was. - SIX

I am going to take a page out of the President of the Navajo nation's book and try to teach. Going backwards.
1. If Obama ever said something that stupid and any democrat thought it was cute then that democrat should have been taken out and shot.- BRENDA

By whom? The MSM let go by the destruction of Libya, the attempted destruction of Syria, and Obama's drone warfare with its attendant blood-letting, ethnic cleansing, terrorism, and displacement without a word. So-called liberals and democrats did the same. The Nobel committee gave Obama a peace prize, just for being the first half-black American President, and didn't have the balls to take it back after he started so much violence and supported jihadist terrorists. Everybody gave Obama a big fat "pass" on all of the evil that he did, maybe because he was half-black, just like everybody (wrongly) gave Clarence Thomas the benefit of the doubt, just because HE was black. Identity politics at its worst.

Just my opinion.

Quote:

2. Obama has more intelligence in his little finger than Trump in his whole body inspite of having about 20years in age on Obama.- BRENDA
And what did he use that intelligence FOR? To sweet-talk the American people while he was busy waging secret/proxy/direct warfare all over the Middle East, bailing out the banks while screwing average Americans, and spying on just about everybody? Everybody gave Obama a big fat "pass" on all of the evil that he did.


Quote:

3. Obama grew up hearing that kind of garbage either spoken to his face or whispered behind his back. His own WHITE mother would have heard the same types of things or worse for marrying a black man.
He grew up in Indonesia. And everybody gave Obama a big fat "pass" on all of the evil that he did.


Quote:

4. If you go back and listen to some of Trump's speeches he uses the name Pocohontas himself and not "they call her that."
5. Have you never heard the word Mexican, Japanese or Chinese used with derision or snarled? Because the person using it doesn't like someone who isn't white. That is what made it an insult. He was being patronizing and condescending in front of those Elders and that was no place to take a jab at a political opponent.

I heard no snarl and no derision, so if this is all reduced to a "tone of voice" kind of thing, I heard a cringingly awkward attempt at trying to make people feel welcome. As I said before, if Trump wanted to reference an actual Native American in Congress, he could have referred to Markwayne Mullin, who is a registered Cherokee, or he should have just skipped the topic altogether. A little but of prep on Trump's part would have helped.

Quote:

Look up the comments made by the President of the Navajo nation. He said that Trump shouldn't have done that. He was there to thank them for their service to their country. Which as the President said is what any guest should have done.

But he did not say that it was a racist insult. What I HEARD was that there should have been no reference to Warren at all, because the focus SHOULD HAVE been on the Code Talkers.

I'm sorry that you feel offended, but I don't think offense was meant. I guess this is something that we'll just have to disagree on.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake




Yep. What Sigs said.

It wasn't a racist comment.

Stupid. Yes. Shouldn't have been said. I agree.

NOT RACIST.

PERIOD.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, December 7, 2017 10:15 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by G:

And there in lies the big problem: HE'S A SELFISH IDIOT. He didn't even have the simple respect or empathy for his guests to understand that it wasn't about him and that that comment might be a bad idea. He should have known better but he runs his mouth because he feels entitled by his wealth and power to have all the candy in the world whenever he wants and 'eff everyone else.



Okay. I don't know if all of this is true, but I won't argue any of it either, because it certainly seems to be the case.

But then this bullshit...

Quote:

Has he done anything yet that benefits people that aren't wealthy white dudes? Almost everything has been a take away or a negating of something, and almost all of it an action against non-white people. He insults Native Peoples in the White House one week, and then opens up some of the land they hold as sacred the next. He must hate them. He attacks black athletes. He attacks Muslims. How much racism does he have to exhibit before you have a problem, or until you are comfortable having no problem being publicly pro-bigot?



The black athletes he "attacks" are racist.

The Muslims he "attacks" are racist.

I'm sure if wealthy people are benefiting from anything that he's doing just for the rich people, there are plenty of black and muslim rich people who are making out as well.

I still see no evidence that he hates American Indians. I don't even know why anybody in the country would hate them. I've only known a few in my lifetime and they were some of the nicest and most interesting people I've ever known.

You're going to have to elaborate on whatever you're on about with their sacred land. I have no idea what you're talking about. That sounds like something I would be very against if it is as you say it is.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, December 7, 2017 11:14 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm sorry that you feel offended, but I don't think offense was meant.



And there in lies the big problem: HE'S A SELFISH IDIOT. He didn't even have the simple respect or empathy for his guests to understand that it wasn't about him and that that comment might be a bad idea. He should have known better but he runs his mouth because he feels entitled by his wealth and power to have all the candy in the world whenever he wants and 'eff everyone else. Has he done anything yet that benefits people that aren't wealthy white dudes? Almost everything has been a take away or a negating of something, and almost all of it an action against non-white people. He insults Native Peoples in the White House one week, and then opens up some of the land they hold as sacred the next. He must hate them. He attacks black athletes. He attacks Muslims. How much racism does he have to exhibit before you have a problem, or until you are comfortable having no problem being publicly pro-bigot?

==============================



Yep and that is the larger point. He is self serving and ignorant. Those are just two negative aspects of Trumps personality. There are many more. His personal makeup is the personal makeup of a terrible person. One not fit to be president.

None of what comes out of his mouth or he attempts to do suggests he has vision. Only a lack of knowledge and forethought. The fact that sig and Jack disagree is documented here for all to reference.

History won't wait to judge Trump. It has already begun. The history of these threads won't wait to judge sig and Jack. That too has already begun.


T

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Thursday, December 7, 2017 11:18 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I wear it with pride, T.

I'm not a mindless Maddow sycophant parroting her very well paid words.


Trump has a lot of flaws. This I don't deny.

There's no need for you or anybody else to make a bunch of shit up about him when he does a bang up job of it himself.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, December 7, 2017 11:31 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I wear it with pride, T.

I'm not a mindless Maddow sycophant parroting her very well paid words.


Trump has a lot of flaws. This I don't deny.

There's no need for you or anybody else to make a bunch of shit up about him when he does a bang up job of it himself.



Do Right, Be Right. :)



And there's the flaw in your thinking Jack. What I and others are posting about Trump is not made up.


T

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Thursday, December 7, 2017 11:36 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


He says something stupid, out of place, and that could possibly offend people with delicate sensibilities when it didn't need to be said it all.

You go all out and say beyond a shadow of a doubt it came from a place of hate and was racist.

Making shit up is EXACTLY what you are doing.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, December 7, 2017 12:08 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
He says something stupid, out of place, and that could possibly offend people with delicate sensibilities when it didn't need to be said it all.

You go all out and say beyond a shadow of a doubt it came from a place of hate and was racist.

Making shit up is EXACTLY what you are doing.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



It was mentioned here Jack. Some just spoke on it. You're the one who turned it into a huge discussion. Why, cause you're a moron who still doesn't understand what happened and why. Even though it's been explained countless times to you.

Trump acted shamelessly. He turned an event meant to honor Native Americans who served with distinction in WW11, into an opportunity to attack and insult a sitting Senator. For selfish reasons Jack. He sullied this evet for selfish reasons. He used the name Pocahontas to describe this senator in an insulting way.

Pocahontas wasn't even her real name. Here father used a fake name to introduce here. He felt White men would sully her somehow. He didn't want her real name used when they did so. So he introduced her as Pocahontas. Sure as shit Jack Trump proved him right. I believe her real name was Amonute.

I cannot remember what has been explained to you so far so I will add this. Trump held the event in front of a presidential portrait. The portrait of the president responsible for the trail of tears.

You're just to stupid Jack. You're just to stupid.


T

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Thursday, December 7, 2017 12:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I don't think Trump was "racist", but I think he was unprepared, which represents carelessness.

We know that he can craft a good speech and put on a good show for heads of state or important people. Carelessness shows that he didn't think much of the people he was addressing; but not necessarily because he's "racist". It doesn't say much good about Trump, and if I were a group of people that he addressed so unpreparedly, I'd be miffed. Not because he was hostile (because I think Trump really was trying to extend a friendly hand) and not because he was an "ist" (sexist, racist, etc) but because he was disrespectful and, as BRENDA put it, patronizing.

It's a fine line between "racism" and a general disregard of others, and deciding which one applies requires imputing motives in others which is always a dangerous thing. So, again, in my book "careless", not "racist" but it's a point on which I can see disagreement.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, December 7, 2017 12:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

The black athletes he "attacks" are racist. -SIX

That's just crazy talk.- G

That's just denial. Racism isn't something that just white people do. Many Japanese are incredibly racist (they think Koreans are subhuman), so are many Chinese. Many blacks are racist against whites: they have expectations of "white people" that have nothing to do with how any white individual might actually behave.

Now, I will say that people tend to cry "racism" over things that AREN'T race, like differences in national origin, language, religion, or citizenship. As far as I know, Spanish-speaking peoples aren't a "race", and neither are those who speak Mandarin. Being a "Muslim" doesn't define a racial group either, and citizenship doesn't confer a "race" on anybody.

Maybe instead of constantly talking about "racism" we should talk about "prejudice" because THAT is the more general term that covers a multitude of sins.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, December 7, 2017 1:10 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

That's just denial. Racism isn't something that just white people do. Many Japanese are incredibly racist (they think Koreans are subhuman), so are many Chinese. Many blacks are racist against whites: they have expectations of "white people" that have nothing to do with how any white individual might actually behave.

Now, I will say that people tend to cry "racism" over things that AREN'T race, like differences in national origin, language, religion, or citizenship. As far as I know, Spanish-speaking peoples aren't a "race", and neither are those who speak Mandarin. Being a "Muslim" doesn't define a racial group either, and citizenship doesn't confer a "race" on anybody.

Maybe instead of constantly talking about "racism" we should talk about "prejudice" because THAT is the more general term that covers a multitude of sins.

How about "white supremacy" rather than "prejudice", which is such a weak term?

It was 1990 and Donald Trump shoots off his mouth about David Duke, the former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, running for the Senate and earning 43 percent of the vote in Louisiana.

Before Trump could claim white supremacy had nothing to do with Duke’s voters, Walker Percy, a Louisiana author, gave a prophetic warning to The New York Times: “Don’t make the mistake of thinking David Duke is a unique phenomenon confined to Louisiana rednecks and yahoos. He’s not,” Percy said. “He’s not just appealing to the old Klan constituency, he’s appealing to the white middle class. And don’t think that he or somebody like him won’t appeal to the white middle class of Chicago or Queens.”

A few days after Duke’s strong showing, the Queens-born businessman Donald Trump appeared on CNN’s Larry King Live.

“It’s anger. I mean, that’s an anger vote. People are angry about what’s happened. People are angry about the jobs. If you look at Louisiana, they’re really in deep trouble,” Trump told King.

Trump later predicted that Duke, if he ran for president, would siphon most of his votes away from the incumbent, George H. W. Bush—in the process revealing his own understanding of the effectiveness of white-nationalist appeals to the GOP base.

“Whether that be good or bad, David Duke is going to get a lot of votes. Pat Buchanan—who really has many of the same theories, except it's in a better package—Pat Buchanan is going to take a lot of votes away from George Bush,” Trump said. “So if you have these two guys running, or even one of them running, I think George Bush could be in big trouble.” Little more than a year later, Buchanan embarrassed Bush by drawing 37 percent of the vote in New Hampshire’s Republican primary.

In February 2016, Trump was asked by a different CNN host about David Duke’s, the former Klan leader, endorsement of his Republican presidential bid.

“Well, just so you understand, I don’t know anything about David Duke. Okay?,” Trump said. “I don’t know anything about what you’re even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. So I don’t know.”

It was not just Trump’s supporters who were in denial about what they were voting for, but Americans across the political spectrum, who, as had been the case with those who had backed Duke, searched desperately for any alternative explanation — outsourcing, anti-Washington anger, economic anxiety — to the one staring them in the face.

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-nationalists-delusion
/546356
/

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Thursday, December 7, 2017 1:40 PM

THGRRI


Trump was taken to court for trying to block black people from renting from him; simple. What sig wants to do is turn this into a discussion about racism in general.

Before she can don't that she needs to show she understands the issue. Two thirds of this country believe Trump to be a racist. She disagrees, end of story.


T

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Thursday, December 7, 2017 1:49 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND, I know Trump is a nationalist. Whether or not he's a "white" nationalist, I don't know. As you know, I support ending illegal immigration into the USA, but I don't consider that "racism", I consider it a matter of national sovereignty.

As far as the David Duke candidacy is concerned, Trump framed it as a "jobs" issue. Did the other candidates in that campaign ALSO focus in jobs, or was David Duke the only one? If that was the case, the voters might really have been voting about jobs.

I think it's incredibly presumptuous of you to tell people why they "really" voted the way they did. I know that you're incredibly inaccurate when you tell ME what I think, so why should I imagine that you're any more accurate about anybody else?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, December 7, 2017 1:57 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, I know Trump is a nationalist. Whether or not he's a "white" nationalist, I don't know.



Right, this is why you should not comment on the issue of racism or bigotry. You are one sig. Hey, how bout them Jews? You're such a shit.


T

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Thursday, December 7, 2017 2:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Right, this is why you should not comment on the issue of racism or bigotry. You are one sig. Hey, how bout them Jews? You're such a shit.
This from one of the most hate-filled, ignorant bigots on the board?






-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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