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Deep state. MSM. Trump ...

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 19, 2022 11:44
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Monday, February 26, 2018 10:54 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Let's cut through your bullshit, Signym.

It's not "bullshit". it's the truth. Sorry if the facts are an inconvenience to your delusions about Trump voters, and how only fat, stupid, lazy, diabetic Americans voted for Trump. You have one fervid imagination, tho!

Quote:

Would these people vote for Trump now?
Since I retired, I no longer talk much with most of my ex-cowokers, but of those, two for sure still support Trump. Of the remainder ... the dog-walking group and my hubby's current colleagues, the answer is "yes", they still support Trump.

Quote:

Did they vote for Trump in the primary?
I have no idea. Some of them may have voted for Sanders.

Quote:

And be sure to ask them what actions in Trump's first year have kept them as defenders of Trump's vision for America. #MAGA
Illegal immigration is still the driving force for some, and being against the (international) deep state is the force for others.

Quote:

Do these Trump voters think Mueller is on a witch-hunt?
At least four that I know of say "Yes".

Quote:

Ask about the FBI. Ask them to explain exactly why they think that. Don't give your reasons placed in their mouths, Signym.
These four think the FBI is crooked. Don't forget that many of these people have experience with governments outside of the USA: Taiwan, PR China, Burma, Mexico, Armenia. They KNOW governments are crooked, and they don't think the USA is any great exception.

Quote:

And for the record, I got what I expected from Trump, without voting for the GOP. It is a multi-million dollar tax cut for me.
Good for you!

So, I hope that your delusion about fat. lazy, stupid, diabetic "Americans" being Trump voters has been somewhat punctured by reality.

Instead of (us usual) attacking your straw-man of a Trump voter (maybe I could call it a blubber-man) why don't you come up with some REAL criticisms of Trump. Yanno, important ones. Not how many hamburgers he eats, or that he's a orange-tinted white guy supported by other orange-tinted white guys, 'cause that's about on the level of people attacking Obama as a watermelon-eating monkey, and characterizing his voters as welfare-collecting thugs.

ISSUES AND POLICIES.



Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, the reason why I find SECOND so funny is because of the people that I personally know who voted for Trump:

******
My hubby, a multi-talented researcher working at a major university
and his co-worker ...

An American-born son of Mexican immigrants; a colleague of my husband's who is a multi-talented technical support guy, professional musician and occasional triathlete

His coworker's brother, a hardworking HVAC guy, his coworker's older sister (teacher) and younger sister (housewife)




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Monday, February 26, 2018 11:22 AM

THGRRI


I fixed this video because it would no longer played SGG. I hope it worked for you.

Hey, it'll remind you of what sig, kiki, rappy, jack and jsf is always doing.

Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I'll check it out.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
SGG, I posted this for you. I have followed your conversation about deep state a bit. Watch this, it explains what's going on right now in this country in a way that makes sense. I'm sure you'll agree when you watch it. If not, that's ok.

It starts off about guns and goes into the politics of today. No deep state in the direction your debaters are pointing. It's a bit long but worth the view. Check it out buddy.
T









T

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Monday, February 26, 2018 11:37 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


lol. Morning Joe. The one's who's job it is to tell us what to think.

I envy you T. It must be kind of nice to never have to think for yourself and just let them do all the thinking for you.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 26, 2018 11:54 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol. Morning Joe. The one's who's job it is to tell us what to think.

I envy you T. It must be kind of nice to never have to think for yourself and just let them do all the thinking for you.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



PPHWWAAAAAHHHHH!!!!

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

There went my morning coffee!

Thanks SIX! That made my day start out good!




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Monday, February 26, 2018 12:00 PM

THGRRI


It's called truth. That video represents my understanding of the truth. In case you didn't notice, the people around the table represent main stream media. Not troll factories, blogs or guys in their basements making videos on youtube.

You know, your truth. Tick tock...


T

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Monday, February 26, 2018 12:00 PM

THGRRI


internet trouble so triple post.

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Monday, February 26, 2018 12:02 PM

THGRRI



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Monday, February 26, 2018 12:22 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol. Morning Joe. The one's who's job it is to tell us what to think.

I envy you T. It must be kind of nice to never have to think for yourself and just let them do all the thinking for you.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



PPHWWAAAAAHHHHH!!!!

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

There went my morning coffee!

Thanks SIX! That made my day start out good!

Ha! Ha! yourself to death, Signym. How do your fellow Trump voters feel about the following?

After receiving a promise of incriminating information about Hillary Clinton plainly said to be from the Russian government, two of Trump’s close family members and his campaign chief agreed to take a meeting to discuss it. Donald Trump Jr. even wrote, “if it’s what you say I love it.” Viewed on its face, it looks a whole lot like smoking-gun evidence of collusion.

Yet still, many months after we learned about the meeting, the facts of what actually happened remain quite murky. Little documentary evidence has emerged, and those involved maintain that what ended up happening was inconsequential. Team Trump’s account of what happened that day is essentially that it was a tremendously strange screw-up that, by sheer happenstance and bad luck, ended up looking far more incriminating than it in fact was.

Another possibility, though, is that the currently known story about the meeting is at least in part a cover-up — one that’s been coordinated by all the meetings’ participants, their attorneys, and perhaps the president himself, to hide some more damning truth. (If you think that’s far-fetched, remember that even Steve Bannon thinks that’s likely, saying, “The chance that Don Jr. did not walk these jumos up to his father’s office on the twenty-sixth floor is zero” and “they’re going to crack Don Junior like an egg on national TV.”)

No one at the meeting is known to have “flipped” and become a cooperator for Mueller. Yet one attendee, Paul Manafort, has already been indicted on a litany of serious unrelated charges that could put him into prison for the rest of his life. And Manafort will face even greater pressure to cooperate now that his longtime business partner Rick Gates has flipped.

www.vox.com/2018/2/26/16964328/trump-tower-meeting-mueller-russia

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Monday, February 26, 2018 12:26 PM

THGRRI


Charged ‘Putin’s chef’ runs news sites along with troll army

Russian media have revealed their connections to other Prigozhin assets, including the “troll farm,” 12 of whose operatives were indicted in the U.S. along with Prigozhin.

The troll factory, the innocuously named Internet Research Agency, initially operated under the same roof with the Federal News Agency and other media outlets that allegedly belong to Prigozhin, but later they split and moved to different buildings on the northern edge of St. Petersburg. RBC reported that Mikhail Burchik, one of the indicted troll farm operatives, also played a key role in Prigozhin’s media holdings.

Just three years after their creation in 2014, the Federal News Agency and 15 other news portals allegedly under Prigozhin’s control had more than 30 million monthly visitors, surpassing Russia’s top state news agencies. They have covered a wide range of subjects, from foreign policy to economy to celebrities. And while their profiles differed, the editorial course was identical — adulation of Putin and stinging criticism of the West.

http://screenny.com/charged-putins-chef-runs-news-sites-along-with-tro
ll-army
/

Here's where they get their news from SECOND.
T

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Monday, February 26, 2018 12:41 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So, I hope that your delusion about fat. lazy, stupid, diabetic "Americans" being Trump voters has been somewhat punctured by reality.

Instead of (us usual) attacking your straw-man of a Trump voter (maybe I could call it a blubber-man) why don't you come up with some REAL criticisms of Trump. Yanno, important ones. Not how many hamburgers he eats, or that he's a orange-tinted white guy supported by other orange-tinted white guys, 'cause that's about on the level of people attacking Obama as a watermelon-eating monkey, and characterizing his voters as welfare-collecting thugs.

My brother-in-law is a Republican and he does call Obama a watermelon-eating monkey and all the other highly imaginative things Republicans say. He has got the Hillary routine perfected, too. He has a college degree, but he is an ignoramus. As for his brothers, father, mother, all Republicans and they are all dead and there is a powerful amount of evidence it is their own damn fault. He has been bitter and unemployed for years and he would be every bit as dead as his blood relatives if it wasn't for my sister. For example, she got him to stop riding a motorcycle (a Harley #MAGA) after a crash that put him in hospital by threatening him: "Ride again and you will die." Reasoning does not work with him. She is my sister and it was a death threat against her own idiotic husband, who has every book Rush Limbaugh wrote. The kind of people who vote Republican are fucking stupid about their lives, unless they are rich, and then it is smart to vote for the GOP.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 26, 2018 1:14 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So, I hope that your delusion about fat. lazy, stupid, diabetic "Americans" being Trump voters has been somewhat punctured by reality.

Instead of (us usual) attacking your straw-man of a Trump voter (maybe I could call it a blubber-man) why don't you come up with some REAL criticisms of Trump. Yanno, important ones. Not how many hamburgers he eats, or that he's a orange-tinted white guy supported by other orange-tinted white guys, 'cause that's about on the level of people attacking Obama as a watermelon-eating monkey, and characterizing his voters as welfare-collecting thugs.

My brother-in-law is a Republican and he does call Obama a watermelon-eating monkey and all the other highly imaginative things Republicans say. He has got the Hillary routine perfected, too. He has a college degree, but he is an ignoramus. As for his brothers, father, mother, all Republicans and they are all dead and there is a powerful amount of evidence it is their own damn fault. He has been bitter and unemployed for years and he would be every bit as dead as his blood relatives if it wasn't for my sister. For example, she got him to stop riding a motorcycle (a Harley #MAGA) after a crash that put him in hospital by threatening him: "Ride again and you will die." Reasoning does not work with him. She is my sister and it was a death threat against her own idiotic husband, who has every book Rush Limbaugh wrote. The kind of people who vote Republican are fucking stupid about their lives, unless they are rich, and then it is smart to vote for the GOP.



Isn't it funny second they want Hillary investigated for colluding with the Russians but not Trump.



T

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Monday, February 26, 2018 1:30 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Isn't it funny second they want Hillary investigated for colluding with the Russians but not Trump.

It is not funny. It's stupid. I'm getting angry at Republican stupidity that is unrelated to politics. My fool of a brother-in-law, the Republican, has a Republican son. My nephew, college educated, was fired for Xmas. It involved his bankruptcy and the company credit card. What an idiot. He got another job. He was fired this month. It involved looking at porn during a business dinner. He got the #MeToo treatment for showing it to the lady seated next to him. He is an idiot. He lost the company car because of the first firing and I bought him a GMC Envoy in February. My dear, stupid nephew goes on and on about how the Deep State and the MSM and Mueller are running a witch hunt against Trump. That's not smart when your uncle is me. But will he stop? No. He is stupid. He is Republican. #MAGA.

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Monday, February 26, 2018 1:48 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Isn't it funny second they want Hillary investigated for colluding with the Russians but not Trump.

It is not funny. It's stupid. I'm getting angry at Republican stupidity that is unrelated to politics. My fool of a brother-in-law, the Republican, has a Republican son. My nephew, college educated, was fired for Xmas. It involved his bankruptcy and the company credit card. What an idiot. He got another job. He was fired this month. It involved looking at porn during a business dinner. He got the #MeToo treatment for showing it to the lady seated next to him. He is an idiot. He lost the company car because of the first firing and I bought him a GMC Envoy in February. My dear, stupid nephew goes on and on about how the Deep State and the MSM and Mueller are running a witch hunt against Trump. That's not smart when your uncle is me. But will he stop? No. He is stupid. He is Republican. #MAGA.



I keep telling some here that they are stupid. Jack, rappy to name two. It changes nothing but needs to be done. They are trolls second. They are nothing but trolls. In thread after thread they are being labeled as such now. That's a victory.


T

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Monday, February 26, 2018 2:43 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Isn't it funny second they want Hillary investigated for colluding with the Russians but not Trump.

It is not funny. It's stupid. I'm getting angry at Republican stupidity that is unrelated to politics. My fool of a brother-in-law, the Republican, has a Republican son. My nephew, college educated, was fired for Xmas. It involved his bankruptcy and the company credit card. What an idiot. He got another job. He was fired this month. It involved looking at porn during a business dinner. He got the #MeToo treatment for showing it to the lady seated next to him. He is an idiot. He lost the company car because of the first firing and I bought him a GMC Envoy in February. My dear, stupid nephew goes on and on about how the Deep State and the MSM and Mueller are running a witch hunt against Trump. That's not smart when your uncle is me. But will he stop? No. He is stupid. He is Republican. #MAGA.



I keep telling some here that they are stupid. Jack, rappy to name two. It changes nothing but needs to be done. They are trolls second. They are nothing but trolls. In thread after thread they are being labeled as such now. That's a victory.

You are right. No amount of my explaining has changed my oldest nephew's understanding of business or Trump or ever stopped him from making disastrous personal decisions. His younger brother understands the first time he is told. His life runs smoothly and he, the smart nephew, mocks Trump, but never where his older brother or father can hear. I think that is a lesson I could learn: don't mock Trump or his voters unless I'm being paid to do it, same as late night show host. But, again, it is so painfully obvious that Trump is crooked.



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 26, 2018 6:02 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


lol... in thread after thread, they are being labeled as trolls, buy two meaningless people on a meaningless board that nobody reads.

Some victory. Your parents must be proud.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, February 26, 2018 8:38 PM

THGRRI


Jack, just recently you admitted to an up bringing that left you hateful and mistrusting of the police and judicial system in this country. I forget what else. Yet you can't put two and two together and see why you can't see past that. Like how that affects your perceptions.

Figure out the rest of what I am implying for yourself.


T

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Monday, February 26, 2018 8:46 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Jack, just recently you admitted to an up bringing that left you hateful and mistrusting of the police and judicial system in this country. I forget what else. Yet you can't put two and two together and see why you can't see past that. Like how that affects your perceptions.

Figure out the rest of what I am implying for yourself.



Yeah. You did forget.

I didn't say anything about police. I said I don't trust lawyers and judges. That's because they destroyed my family and profited from it.

Shove your ill-conceived implications up your ass.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, February 27, 2018 5:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Isn't it funny second they want Hillary investigated for colluding with the Russians but not Trump.- THUGR

It is not funny. It's stupid. I'm getting angry at Republican stupidity that is unrelated to politics. My fool of a brother-in-law, the Republican, has a Republican son. My nephew, college educated, was fired for Xmas. It involved his bankruptcy and the company credit card. What an idiot. He got another job. He was fired this month. It involved looking at porn during a business dinner. He got the #MeToo treatment for showing it to the lady seated next to him. He is an idiot. He lost the company car because of the first firing and I bought him a GMC Envoy in February. My dear, stupid nephew goes on and on about how the Deep State and the MSM and Mueller are running a witch hunt against Trump. That's not smart when your uncle is me. But will he stop? No. He is stupid. He is Republican. #MAGA. SECOND


SECOND, I'm so very sorry for you that your nephew is so stupid. It's a tragedy when ANYone doesn't seem to learn from experience, but even more painful when it is somebody close to you ... possibly even genetically part of the same stock. OUCH! That says a lot about "your" side of the family! Or not! Maybe all of the "bad genes" come from the other family? Who's to say??? :shrug:

But don't you think that it says something about YOUR anger issue, when you leapfrog from "your nephew" to "Republicans" to "all Americans"??? I mean, isn't that generalizing a bit too far?? Just like THUGR likes to accuse everyone who disagrees with him as being a "Russian troll"? Seems excessively broad-brush to me!

Since I just gave you quite a number of examples of A LOT OF voters who don't fit your anti-GOP screed, don't you suppose that maybe you should recalibrate your anger?

OR .... are you going to be just like the guy you can't stand, and refuse to learn from experience?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Wednesday, February 28, 2018 8:18 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Isn't it funny second they want Hillary investigated for colluding with the Russians but not Trump.- THUGR

It is not funny. It's stupid. I'm getting angry at Republican stupidity that is unrelated to politics. My fool of a brother-in-law, the Republican, has a Republican son. My nephew, college educated, was fired for Xmas. It involved his bankruptcy and the company credit card. What an idiot. He got another job. He was fired this month. It involved looking at porn during a business dinner. He got the #MeToo treatment for showing it to the lady seated next to him. He is an idiot. He lost the company car because of the first firing and I bought him a GMC Envoy in February. My dear, stupid nephew goes on and on about how the Deep State and the MSM and Mueller are running a witch hunt against Trump. That's not smart when your uncle is me. But will he stop? No. He is stupid. He is Republican. #MAGA. SECOND


SECOND, I'm so very sorry for you that your nephew is so stupid. It's a tragedy when ANYone doesn't seem to learn from experience, but even more painful when it is somebody close to you ... possibly even genetically part of the same stock. OUCH! That says a lot about "your" side of the family! Or not! Maybe all of the "bad genes" come from the other family? Who's to say??? :shrug:

But don't you think that it says something about YOUR anger issue, when you leapfrog from "your nephew" to "Republicans" to "all Americans"??? I mean, isn't that generalizing a bit too far?? Just like THUGR likes to accuse everyone who disagrees with him as being a "Russian troll"? Seems excessively broad-brush to me!

Since I just gave you quite a number of examples of A LOT OF voters who don't fit your anti-GOP screed, don't you suppose that maybe you should recalibrate your anger?

OR .... are you going to be just like the guy you can't stand, and refuse to learn from experience?

My sister has three children. The one that was filled with anxiety since he was a fussy little baby, my eldest nephew the Republican, is the nephew that over-reacts to all problems, which causes a cascade of secondary problems, exactly as his father, the Republican, over-reacts. When the nephew needed a car in February, his father, the over-reactor, refused based on his political beliefs (Earn your own way, son. Don't expect free handouts. You need to learn the value of a dollar. Blah-blah.). I was called in by my sister, because I'm not a fucking idiot that can't solve problems. My political principles never cause me to reject all reasonable solutions.

My nephew's mother, my older sister, is never phased by any problems, similar to her other children, who are not Republicans. She doesn't vote because she is a Jehovah's Witness. There is no need for her to have a political opinion because Democrats/Republicans are all the same to God: they will not make it into the New World. You can check that belief here: www.jw.org/en/publications/books/a-peaceful-new-world-will-it-come/110
1991230
/

Jehovah's Witnesses don't vote for Republicans or Democrats. www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2008/06/why_dont_je
hovahs_witnesses_vote.html


At this point I stop, without being even one quarter of the way done, realizing that explaining myself to an unknown critter on the internet is wasting my time. Getting back on track: there is the article Trump: Investigate the FBI, not the Russians
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/trump-investigate-the-fbi-not-t
he-russians
/

I think Kevin Drum's short piece fits well into the theme of this thread: Deep state. MSM. Trump ...

Quoting a paragraph about Trump:
Quote:

Is Trump concerned about the Russian hacks? No he is not. He’s concerned that the FBI is trying too hard to investigate the Russian hacks. He’s concerned that the FBI is interested in a guy who was explicitly recruited by the Russians a few years ago. He’s concerned with “potentially massive FISA abuse” by the FBI when they requested a wiretap on this guy.
Trump is as loud-mouthed as my brother-in-law-the-Republican and just as useless in solving problems.



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, February 28, 2018 9:14 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I think that Second's argument is that all Democrats are reasonable, level-headed people. The FFF.net RWED is an EXCELLENT example of that!

lol... I'm going to need some citations. Preferably not any written by Democrats. No vox, motherjones or Morning Joe please. No Rachel Maddow goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, March 3, 2018 11:28 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SHINY ... I feel that I didn't adequately respond to this part of your post, which contains a very important point ...

Quote:

I have another question. Isn't Russia, or actually the oligarchs, running things as part of the Deep State? I would think that the Deep State would want chaos and confusion to reign supreme so that their agenda would be advanced to their benefit.
Hence the continued unrest throughout the planet, that would keep the world in their greedy little hands. You know, control of the world's markets and thereby allowing for the manipulation of the people of the world. Money, the control of it, being at the core of their agenda.



It caused me to stop and think .... which part of any deep state/oligarchy wants chaos and unrest?

It seems to me that if you make money in almost any economic activity .... the manufacturing and sale of goods ....chaos and unrest aren't really to your benefit. IF there is internal unrest (riots, civil war) or war between nations, then all sorts of facilities and services are at risk. Just look at Syria or even Ukraine as examples ... production facilities are bombed, roads become impassible, supply-chains are interrupted. Or use Apple as an example: If "actions" were to be taken against China, shipping thru the South China sea might be halted, contracts abrogated, etc. Just thinking sort of broad-brush, civilian economic activity and trade is throttled under conditions of unrest or war.

OTOH, there are oligarchs for whom chaos, civil war, unrest, and war represent a good money-making opportunity, and those are

1) The military-industrial complex i.e. non-civilian production, and non-civilian services such as contracted fighters, provisioners etc

2) Financial speculators such as those who speculate on the price of commodities, currencies etc ... they can make money whether the value of ANYthing goes up or down (this would be hedge funds investing in derivatives for example). Static conditions, in which prices remain relatively constant, don't represent speculative opportunity.

3) Lenders (banks) who will happily lend war-making money to any nation, even if that nation borrows itself into oblivion, because they will either (a) get interest payments or (b) if nations fail to make payment, the lenders will take possession of resources (such as mines) or infrastructure (such as ports) at fire-sale prices

So, in general, I'd say that only a certain type of oligarch wants chaos, and those would be either directly involved in military production or services or financial speculation.

In general, what I think is that the various speculators and central banks which have impoverished vast parts of the world (Central and South America, Africa, much of the Mideast, Eastern/Southern Europe and South Asia) have either extracted as much as they can from their nations in thrall, or they've hit a brick wall with China and Russia; and they have turned their kind attentions to the USA. Because they really don't have OUR national interests at heart, they are only loyal to making money, and don't mind sending us on a ruinous course as long as they get their percentage.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, March 3, 2018 7:38 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

My sister has three children. The one that was filled with anxiety since he was a fussy little baby, my eldest nephew the Republican, is the nephew that over-reacts to all problems, which causes a cascade of secondary problems, exactly as his father, the Republican, over-reacts .... My nephew's mother, my older sister, is never phased by any problems, similar to her other children, who are not Republicans.
So now you're saying that being Republican or being Democrat is either a genetic or developmental issue? That "over reactors" are Republican?

Well, how do we explain YOU?

I mean, if anyone is tweaked by minor stuff, it seems you would be a good example! In fact, the most twitchy, over-reactive people here seem to be of the "Democratic liberal" variety ... the kind of reaction that caused the "snowflake" meme to become so popular. I see people getting hysterical (I think the term "hyperventilating" was used by Clapper to characterize your reaction to so-called Russian "hacking") over minor issues. A lot of reaction to small things, and no reaction at all to big problems?

I guess you're right... it must be a developmental problem!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, March 4, 2018 12:54 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

My nephew's mother, my older sister, is never phased by any problems, similar to her other children, who are not Republicans.


I think this is just a ridiculous statement. That is something I say about anybody who deals in absolutes.

The only people I have ever seen that "have it all figured out" or at least try to put off the image of somebody who does are cult leaders. Anybody who is "never phased by any problems" in my eyes is somebody not to be trusted.

People are people. Yes, overreacting to everything is obviously not a good character trait, but life happens, and it should be expected that as a human being you're going to have enough pressure put upon you at some point in your life that you're going to at the very least have a reaction to it.

If nothing truly ever phases her, it has nothing to do with being a Democrat. She's either A) a robot, B) a very good liar, C) on a perfect mood-altering drug cocktail, D) living a life with both little responsibility coupled with enough money to throw at any problems that life dumps on her, or E) a combination of any of the above.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, March 4, 2018 2:43 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The point I was making is that SECOND dumps on his nephew for being an over-reactive hate-filled over-generalizing ideologue, but behaves exactly the same way here.

So .... What's up with that, SECOND ????

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Monday, March 5, 2018 7:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Hello???



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If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Tuesday, March 6, 2018 5:54 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Sig,

So what you are stating is that chaos and unrest DOES NOT benefit Russia or China. They prefer stable governments, ones that they could take advantage of. They would prefer a certain type of confusion and unrest, and not full out war. Such as in Syria.

Then why back Syria and the genocide that takes place there? And isn't that "certain type of unrest" still part and parcel of the Deep State, as you put it?

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you place Obama and his Administration as the head of the Deep State? Does it exist here in the US?
I'm curious because I've often heard that name bandied about in regards to Obama, Lynch and Holder. Am I way off base here?

1. The military industrial complex, which includes the USA and Russia, would certainly benefit from war and political confusion. Of course, only a handful of companies, with ties to certain individuals within the MIC would greatly benefit. i.e.: Halliburton.

2. As financial speculators go, betting on the markets doesn't rely solely on stable worldwide situations....correct! But the economically well-off generally benefit greatly. The Deep State isn't needed for that, at least I don't think so.

3. I tend to agree, to some extent, with this point, but War isn't always needed to topple a government or regime. Look at Puerto Rico, a perfect example of government manipulation/interference/malfeasence coupled with good old fashioned corporate greed. Wall Street, with the help of Congress and the president, are looking to put the squeeze on the Commonwealth and may look to call in Wall Street's Bonds, held by elite hedge fund companies.

Is that a part of the Deep State? If so, then Obama isn't alone in steering the good ship "Greed" in and around the island. The Deep State is being helmed by ....................who exactly?

As an aside, I've heard rumors that Kushner was instrumental in involving Qatar in the civil strife that is taking place there. All because of a deal that fell through to help him satisfy the outstanding debt at 666 Fifth Avenue. Is that what you were refering in your final paragraph?


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SHINY ... I feel that I didn't adequately respond to this part of your post, which contains a very important point ...

Quote:

I have another question. Isn't Russia, or actually the oligarchs, running things as part of the Deep State? I would think that the Deep State would want chaos and confusion to reign supreme so that their agenda would be advanced to their benefit.
Hence the continued unrest throughout the planet, that would keep the world in their greedy little hands. You know, control of the world's markets and thereby allowing for the manipulation of the people of the world. Money, the control of it, being at the core of their agenda.



It caused me to stop and think .... which part of any deep state/oligarchy wants chaos and unrest?

It seems to me that if you make money in almost any economic activity .... the manufacturing and sale of goods ....chaos and unrest aren't really to your benefit. IF there is internal unrest (riots, civil war) or war between nations, then all sorts of facilities and services are at risk. Just look at Syria or even Ukraine as examples ... production facilities are bombed, roads become impassible, supply-chains are interrupted. Or use Apple as an example: If "actions" were to be taken against China, shipping thru the South China sea might be halted, contracts abrogated, etc. Just thinking sort of broad-brush, civilian economic activity and trade is throttled under conditions of unrest or war.

OTOH, there are oligarchs for whom chaos, civil war, unrest, and war represent a good money-making opportunity, and those are

1) The military-industrial complex i.e. non-civilian production, and non-civilian services such as contracted fighters, provisioners etc

2) Financial speculators such as those who speculate on the price of commodities, currencies etc ... they can make money whether the value of ANYthing goes up or down (this would be hedge funds investing in derivatives for example). Static conditions, in which prices remain relatively constant, don't represent speculative opportunity.

3) Lenders (banks) who will happily lend war-making money to any nation, even if that nation borrows itself into oblivion, because they will either (a) get interest payments or (b) if nations fail to make payment, the lenders will take possession of resources (such as mines) or infrastructure (such as ports) at fire-sale prices

So, in general, I'd say that only a certain type of oligarch wants chaos, and those would be either directly involved in military production or services or financial speculation.

In general, what I think is that the various speculators and central banks which have impoverished vast parts of the world (Central and South America, Africa, much of the Mideast, Eastern/Southern Europe and South Asia) have either extracted as much as they can from their nations in thrall, or they've hit a brick wall with China and Russia; and they have turned their kind attentions to the USA. Because they really don't have OUR national interests at heart, they are only loyal to making money, and don't mind sending us on a ruinous course as long as they get their percentage.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876


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Tuesday, March 6, 2018 8:07 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Sig,



I'm going to go ahead and answer some of this. Feel free to tell me if I'm way off base Sigs.

Quote:

So what you are stating is that chaos and unrest DOES NOT benefit Russia or China. They prefer stable governments, ones that they could take advantage of. They would prefer a certain type of confusion and unrest, and not full out war. Such as in Syria.

Then why back Syria and the genocide that takes place there? And isn't that "certain type of unrest" still part and parcel of the Deep State, as you put it?



They prefer their own governments to be relatively stable. Syria and the people who live there don't mean shit to them. Kinda like how the people running the show here don't give two shits about all the brown people we've been at war with for most of my life.

Being at "war" with Syria is as beneficial to the Russian government as being at "war" with the Middle East in general is to our own government.

Quote:

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you place Obama and his Administration as the head of the Deep State? Does it exist here in the US?
I'm curious because I've often heard that name bandied about in regards to Obama, Lynch and Holder. Am I way off base here?



The deep state was around a long time before Obama even got into politics. I won't go so far as to say he was an useful idiot, because he is demonstrably intelligent, but let's just say that he was Deep State friendly.

Quote:

1. The military industrial complex, which includes the USA and Russia, would certainly benefit from war and political confusion. Of course, only a handful of companies, with ties to certain individuals within the MIC would greatly benefit. i.e.: Halliburton.


True, if we're only talking about financials. But if this is all you're considering then you're taking out the psychological warfare element of the whole show. Think about the average stress your everyday citizen goes through on a daily basis just taking care of themselves and the people they care about. Now add the constant wars and politicking that has infected each and every one of us that pays any attention to it all.

Quote:

2. As financial speculators go, betting on the markets doesn't rely solely on stable worldwide situations....correct! But the economically well-off generally benefit greatly. The Deep State isn't needed for that, at least I don't think so.


The Deep State isn't needed for that, no. But they know everything that is going on. They can't lose that rigged game because, unlike Krugman, they know how the game is going to play out before it even happens. You don't need a crystal ball when you're controlling the game.

Quote:

3. I tend to agree, to some extent, with this point, but War isn't always needed to topple a government or regime. Look at Puerto Rico, a perfect example of government manipulation/interference/malfeasence coupled with good old fashioned corporate greed. Wall Street, with the help of Congress and the president, are looking to put the squeeze on the Commonwealth and may look to call in Wall Street's Bonds, held by elite hedge fund companies.


I don't know if that's true with Puerto Rico. I mean... I'm sure greed plays into it because somebody is always going to make money on other people's misfortunes. I think the largest problem in Puerto Rico was bad leadership and no emergency game plan, and terrible execution after the fact.

Quote:

Is that a part of the Deep State? If so, then Obama isn't alone in steering the good ship "Greed" in and around the island. The Deep State is being helmed by ....................who exactly?


Not by Obama, that's pretty much for certain. You're guess is good as mine. The Rockefellers, maybe? Aliens?

Quote:

As an aside, I've heard rumors that Kushner was instrumental in involving Qatar in the civil strife that is taking place there. All because of a deal that fell through to help him satisfy the outstanding debt at 666 Fifth Avenue. Is that what you were refering in your final paragraph?


I dunno. Bill Clinton got a million dollar birthday present from the Prince of Qatar. They're probably all in on it to some degree, although I don't think any people who's names we know really know what's going on any more than we do. Plausible deniability.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, March 7, 2018 3:58 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Tongue firmly in cheek


SGG

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Wednesday, March 7, 2018 4:33 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


I will respond soon.


SGG

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Monday, March 12, 2018 4:17 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


So the Deep State had nothing to do with Trump's election and getting him into the White House?


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Comey's manipulation of the election - going public with an inconsequential detail of the Hillary investigation a week before the election, while releasing nothing about the investigations into Trump's Russia ties throughout the entire election cycle - seems like the clearest example of 'deep state' undermining democracy.

Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:

Hey look! Reaver shit-hit-the fan is agreeing with kpo about something that never happened! It sure smells like a Nazi troll to me! www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/know-u-s-investigations-russia-possible-t
ies-trumps-campaign
/





How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?


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Monday, March 12, 2018 4:29 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The Deep State was behind Hillary all the way. Comey was a non-swimmer in over his head.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Friday, March 16, 2018 11:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


How did I miss this???

Quote:

I'm going to go ahead and answer some of this. Feel free to tell me if I'm way off base Sigs.- SIX

Quote:

So what you are stating is that chaos and unrest DOES NOT benefit Russia or China. They prefer stable governments, ones that they could take advantage of. They would prefer a certain type of confusion and unrest, and not full out war. Such as in Syria. Then why back Syria and the genocide that takes place there? And isn't that "certain type of unrest" still part and parcel of the Deep State, as you put it?


They prefer their own governments to be relatively stable. Syria and the people who live there don't mean shit to them. Kinda like how the people running the show here don't give two shits about all the brown people we've been at war with for most of my life.

It's complicated. Syria (you may not know) actually elected Assad. Yes, they have elections there. Now, people have been complaining of "strongman" tactics by the Assad government, and there WAS a genuine 'human rights' movement in Syria, but it was taken over by the Saudis, Qataris, Turks, and the USA CIA in an effort to oust Assad by any means possible. The Saudis, etc. chose to support (Sunni, takfiri) jihadists who are just like head-lopping/ burning-alive/ drowning jihadists everywhere. They came from everywhere: Tunisia, Iraq, Chechnya, Indonesia etc to take Syria apart and build the first real jihadist state. However, the future for non-Sunni, non-takfiri minorities in Syria - the Shias, Alawites, Druze, Orthodox and "regular" Christians, Yazidis, ethnic Armenians and Turkmen etc ... anyone not a takfiri Sunni Arab - was extremely bleak and meant either "convert or die" or "provide sex or die" or sometimes just "die".



There are reports that the jihadist fighters in Raqqa- which was the unofficial capital of ISIS in Syria before Syria, Iran and Russia turned things sour for them - were paid in Saudi riyals and pumped up with Captagon (amphetamine) supplied by Saudi Arabia.



SO, altho the "movement" may have started out authentic, it rapidly evolved into a proxy war, where the CIA (and USA media) constantly called the head-lopping jihadists "rebels" and supplied them with weapons, intel, and training.

RUSSIA, IRAN, AND HEZBOLLAH WERE INVITED IN BY THE OFFICIALLY-RECOGNIZED GOVERNMENT OF SYRIA, WHICH THE USA, GULF STATES, AND TURKEY WERE INTENT ON DESTROYING VIA THEIR JIHADIST PROXIES. So THERE'S the source of your instability, just like the western-sourced instability in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, and Sudan.

Quote:

Being at "war" with Syria is as beneficial to the Russian government as being at "war" with the Middle East in general is to our own government.-


It has its political uses "at home", and Russia gets to test its different weapons systems and conduct training under real-live battle conditions, and I'm sure that the military gets a boost, but Russia's economy is much smaller and they don't have a world reserve currency to pump out, so this represents a real cost to their economy. The other advantage is that it opens the way for an Iranian-Iraqi-Syrian gas pipeline to the EU; but that advantage goes to Iran, Iraq, and Syria, not Russia.

Quote:

Quote:

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you place Obama and his Administration as the head of the Deep State? Does it exist here in the US? I'm curious because I've often heard that name bandied about in regards to Obama, Lynch and Holder. Am I way off base here?- SGG


The deep state was around a long time before Obama even got into politics. I won't go so far as to say he was an useful idiot, because he is demonstrably intelligent, but let's just say that he was Deep State friendly.- SIX

Agreed.

Quote:

Quote:

1. The military industrial complex, which includes the USA and Russia, would certainly benefit from war and political confusion. Of course, only a handful of companies, with ties to certain individuals within the MIC would greatly benefit. i.e.: Halliburton.


True, if we're only talking about financials. But if this is all you're considering then you're taking out the psychological warfare element of the whole show. Think about the average stress your everyday citizen goes through on a daily basis just taking care of themselves and the people they care about. Now add the constant wars and politicking that has infected each and every one of us that pays any attention to it all.

There is considerable psychological and political advantage to keeping the population off-balance and afraid.

Quote:

Quote:

2. As financial speculators go, betting on the markets doesn't rely solely on stable worldwide situations....correct! But the economically well-off generally benefit greatly. The Deep State isn't needed for that, at least I don't think so.


The Deep State isn't needed for that, no. But they know everything that is going on. They can't lose that rigged game because, unlike Krugman, they know how the game is going to play out before it even happens. You don't need a crystal ball when you're controlling the game.

Agreed.

Quote:

Quote:

3. I tend to agree, to some extent, with this point, but War isn't always needed to topple a government or regime. Look at Puerto Rico, a perfect example of government manipulation/interference/malfeasence coupled with good old fashioned corporate greed. Wall Street, with the help of Congress and the president, are looking to put the squeeze on the Commonwealth and may look to call in Wall Street's Bonds, held by elite hedge fund companies.


I don't know if that's true with Puerto Rico. I mean... I'm sure greed plays into it because somebody is always going to make money on other people's misfortunes. I think the largest problem in Puerto Rico was bad leadership and no emergency game plan, and terrible execution after the fact.

War is the last resort to toppling governments. There is a book called Confessions of an Economic Hitman and if you can get past the tremendous egoism of the author, he describes the various stages of how to take over governments. Bribery and threats play a large part.

Quote:

Quote:

Is that a part of the Deep State? If so, then Obama isn't alone in steering the good ship "Greed" in and around the island. The Deep State is being helmed by ....................who exactly?


Not by Obama, that's pretty much for certain. You're guess is good as mine. The Rockefellers, maybe? Aliens?

Follow the money. Whoever has the most money are the ones steering the ship. The banks, for one.

Quote:

Quote:

As an aside, I've heard rumors that Kushner was instrumental in involving Qatar in the civil strife that is taking place there. All because of a deal that fell through to help him satisfy the outstanding debt at 666 Fifth Avenue. Is that what you were refering in your final paragraph?


I dunno. Bill Clinton got a million dollar birthday present from the Prince of Qatar. They're probably all in on it to some degree, although I don't think any people who's names we know really know what's going on any more than we do. Plausible deniability.

There are a lot of things going on in Qatar, some of them have to do with the Qatari's government making nice with Iran (with whom they share a gas field) and selling gas and oil in non-dollars, threatening the Saudi's petrodollar arrangement.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, March 17, 2018 1:35 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


2 Questions Keeks:

1) Who exactly is the deep State here in the U.S.? Sigs said that there are both national and international Deep State and that their agendas differ greatly. To make it easier: Who are they here in the U.S.? I believe that they are who you're referring to.

2) What is their ultimate goal? Why back Hillary? Why did they fail? Was it the international Deep State at work here?


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
The Deep State was behind Hillary all the way. Comey was a non-swimmer in over his head.




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Saturday, March 17, 2018 2:10 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Sigs, you're right.....it is complicated. It's an enormous game of chess and we're the pawns in all of this.

All I know is that Putin is making a lot of moves to keep his seat at the chess board. The more I think about it, the more I feel that this is a 3-D game of chess.
Although I'm not quite sure who the other players are, I believe that there is a struggle between the international and national Deep State. What the end game is, I don't know. But one thing's certain, Putin is in the middle pulling strings. He has his man in the White House; his man in Syria.

It's a lot like watching a train wreck, there's nothing we can do about it. I know I'm simplifying things, but I could only see but so much on the chess board.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
How did I miss this???

Quote:

I'm going to go ahead and answer some of this. Feel free to tell me if I'm way off base Sigs.- SIX

Quote:

So what you are stating is that chaos and unrest DOES NOT benefit Russia or China. They prefer stable governments, ones that they could take advantage of. They would prefer a certain type of confusion and unrest, and not full out war. Such as in Syria. Then why back Syria and the genocide that takes place there? And isn't that "certain type of unrest" still part and parcel of the Deep State, as you put it?


They prefer their own governments to be relatively stable. Syria and the people who live there don't mean shit to them. Kinda like how the people running the show here don't give two shits about all the brown people we've been at war with for most of my life.

It's complicated. Syria (you may not know) actually elected Assad. Yes, they have elections there. Now, people have been complaining of "strongman" tactics by the Assad government, and there WAS a genuine 'human rights' movement in Syria, but it was taken over by the Saudis, Qataris, Turks, and the USA CIA in an effort to oust Assad by any means possible. The Saudis, etc. chose to support (Sunni, takfiri) jihadists who are just like head-lopping/ burning-alive/ drowning jihadists everywhere. They came from everywhere: Tunisia, Iraq, Chechnya, Indonesia etc to take Syria apart and build the first real jihadist state. However, the future for non-Sunni, non-takfiri minorities in Syria - the Shias, Alawites, Druze, Orthodox and "regular" Christians, Yazidis, ethnic Armenians and Turkmen etc ... anyone not a takfiri Sunni Arab - was extremely bleak and meant either "convert or die" or "provide sex or die" or sometimes just "die".



There are reports that the jihadist fighters in Raqqa- which was the unofficial capital of ISIS in Syria before Syria, Iran and Russia turned things sour for them - were paid in Saudi riyals and pumped up with Captagon (amphetamine) supplied by Saudi Arabia.



SO, altho the "movement" may have started out authentic, it rapidly evolved into a proxy war, where the CIA (and USA media) constantly called the head-lopping jihadists "rebels" and supplied them with weapons, intel, and training.

RUSSIA, IRAN, AND HEZBOLLAH WERE INVITED IN BY THE OFFICIALLY-RECOGNIZED GOVERNMENT OF SYRIA, WHICH THE USA, GULF STATES, AND TURKEY WERE INTENT ON DESTROYING VIA THEIR JIHADIST PROXIES. So THERE'S the source of your instability, just like the western-sourced instability in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, and Sudan.

Quote:

Being at "war" with Syria is as beneficial to the Russian government as being at "war" with the Middle East in general is to our own government.-


It has its political uses "at home", and Russia gets to test its different weapons systems and conduct training under real-live battle conditions, and I'm sure that the military gets a boost, but Russia's economy is much smaller and they don't have a world reserve currency to pump out, so this represents a real cost to their economy. The other advantage is that it opens the way for an Iranian-Iraqi-Syrian gas pipeline to the EU; but that advantage goes to Iran, Iraq, and Syria, not Russia.

Quote:

Quote:

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you place Obama and his Administration as the head of the Deep State? Does it exist here in the US? I'm curious because I've often heard that name bandied about in regards to Obama, Lynch and Holder. Am I way off base here?- SGG


The deep state was around a long time before Obama even got into politics. I won't go so far as to say he was an useful idiot, because he is demonstrably intelligent, but let's just say that he was Deep State friendly.- SIX

Agreed.

Quote:

Quote:

1. The military industrial complex, which includes the USA and Russia, would certainly benefit from war and political confusion. Of course, only a handful of companies, with ties to certain individuals within the MIC would greatly benefit. i.e.: Halliburton.


True, if we're only talking about financials. But if this is all you're considering then you're taking out the psychological warfare element of the whole show. Think about the average stress your everyday citizen goes through on a daily basis just taking care of themselves and the people they care about. Now add the constant wars and politicking that has infected each and every one of us that pays any attention to it all.

There is considerable psychological and political advantage to keeping the population off-balance and afraid.

Quote:

Quote:

2. As financial speculators go, betting on the markets doesn't rely solely on stable worldwide situations....correct! But the economically well-off generally benefit greatly. The Deep State isn't needed for that, at least I don't think so.


The Deep State isn't needed for that, no. But they know everything that is going on. They can't lose that rigged game because, unlike Krugman, they know how the game is going to play out before it even happens. You don't need a crystal ball when you're controlling the game.

Agreed.

Quote:

Quote:

3. I tend to agree, to some extent, with this point, but War isn't always needed to topple a government or regime. Look at Puerto Rico, a perfect example of government manipulation/interference/malfeasence coupled with good old fashioned corporate greed. Wall Street, with the help of Congress and the president, are looking to put the squeeze on the Commonwealth and may look to call in Wall Street's Bonds, held by elite hedge fund companies.


I don't know if that's true with Puerto Rico. I mean... I'm sure greed plays into it because somebody is always going to make money on other people's misfortunes. I think the largest problem in Puerto Rico was bad leadership and no emergency game plan, and terrible execution after the fact.

War is the last resort to toppling governments. There is a book called Confessions of an Economic Hitman and if you can get past the tremendous egoism of the author, he describes the various stages of how to take over governments. Bribery and threats play a large part.

Quote:

Quote:

Is that a part of the Deep State? If so, then Obama isn't alone in steering the good ship "Greed" in and around the island. The Deep State is being helmed by ....................who exactly?


Not by Obama, that's pretty much for certain. You're guess is good as mine. The Rockefellers, maybe? Aliens?

Follow the money. Whoever has the most money are the ones steering the ship. The banks, for one.

Quote:

Quote:

As an aside, I've heard rumors that Kushner was instrumental in involving Qatar in the civil strife that is taking place there. All because of a deal that fell through to help him satisfy the outstanding debt at 666 Fifth Avenue. Is that what you were refering in your final paragraph?


I dunno. Bill Clinton got a million dollar birthday present from the Prince of Qatar. They're probably all in on it to some degree, although I don't think any people who's names we know really know what's going on any more than we do. Plausible deniability.

There are a lot of things going on in Qatar, some of them have to do with the Qatari's government making nice with Iran (with whom they share a gas field) and selling gas and oil in non-dollars, threatening the Saudi's petrodollar arrangement.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876


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Saturday, March 17, 2018 11:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Sigs, you're right.....it is complicated. It's an enormous game of chess and we're the pawns in all of this.

All I know is that Putin is making a lot of moves to keep his seat at the chess board. The more I think about it, the more I feel that this is a 3-D game of chess.
Although I'm not quite sure who the other players are, I believe that there is a struggle between the international and national Deep State. What the end game is, I don't know. But one thing's certain, Putin is in the middle pulling strings. He has his man in the White House; his man in Syria.

It's a lot like watching a train wreck, there's nothing we can do about it. I know I'm simplifying things, but I could only see but so much on the chess board.

You're right, SGG ... it's extremely complicated. It's very hard to figure out what's going to happen next, because it's almost impossible to even know who the players are since the REAL "powers that be" mostly remain well-hidden.

However, here's my take on your post: I think you're giving Putin and the FSB far too much credit for influencing world events.

The USA's GDP is about 14X that of Russia (approx 17.9 trillion v 1.3 trillion) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_count
ries_by_GDP_(nominal
)

The USA's government revenues are about 6X that of Russia's
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Russia/United-States/
Economy


But the USA's military spending is about 10X that of Russia's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditur
es
and we have been vastly predominant for decades and decades; we have spent more than most other nations COMBINED since WWII. To put this in perspective, Trump's military budget INCREASE is about on-par with Russia's total military budget.

All to say that Russia's application of force is necessarily limited. Where the USA has failed, it's due to self-inflicted wounds/ bad policy/ the MIC parasitizing the military for its own purposes. The only reason why the focus is on Russia is because they have has SOME success in Chechnya, Crimea, and Syria .... but compare that to the roughly 1000 military installations that the USA has all over the world.

One clique of players that I have been able to ID over the years is the backers of the petrodollar. That destruction of Iraq? Not about WMD at all. The problem was that Hans Blix looked like he was getting closer and closer to certifying that Saddam had substantially met the UN mandate for WMD destruction, and there were oil contracts with France and Russia about the be signed, payment in Euros and gold. The closer that got, the more frantic Bush's propaganda; don't forget that it was OUR BOMBING that chased out the UN inspections team (UNMOVIC), not Saddam. The petrodollar determines nearly ALL of our mideast policy, and Israel determines the rest.


So if shit doesn't make sense, look first to petrodollar/ reserve currency/ international bank considerations to see what THEIR interests are.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Saturday, March 17, 2018 6:03 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


When it comes to Trump and Putin specifically, the Steele dossier opens up with these sentences, written in 2016: "Russian regime has been cultivating, supporting and assisting TRUMP for at least 5 years. Aim, endorsed by PUTIN, has been to encourage splits and divisions in western alliance." Basically, it attributes to Putin political espionage involving Trump since at least 2011, or even earlier.

Forget the general election for the moment.

Trump announced his candidacy Tuesday, June 16, 2015. There were 16 other candidates in the primary race. They were: John Kasich, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina, Jeb Bush, Jim Gilmore, Chris Christie, Rand Paul, Rick Santorum, Mike Huckabee, George Pataki, Lindsey Graham, Bobby Jindal, Scott Walker, and Rick Perry.

With the exception of Jim Gilmore, all of them were well known, with bona fides as populist (eg Christie, Perry), pro-business (eg Fiorina) and/ or Tea Party (eg Walker) candidates.

Trump's win of the primary race against a full field of well-known politicians was unforeseen, as was his win of the presidency.

The question is, how could Putin know to target Trump in 2011 or earlier to "create splits and divisions in the western alliance", because Trump would become a politician in 2015, would win the primary July 2016, and would win the presidency November 2016? The answer of course is that Putin couldn't know.

I believe Russia is in the habit of collecting information on important people who go to Russia, as a matter of course. But that means they ALSO have information on Hillary (and others). Hillary could be just as compromised, but we'll never know, since no one seems to care.

And only focusing on Trump and assuming everyone else is clean makes about just as much sense as only drug-testing the winners in a sport, and not testing all the losers as well. The thinking being that the losers couldn't have been doping because they lost. Which is pretty silly as a presumption.

If we REALLY want to get foreign influence out of our politicians, we need to scrutinize them all, at least at the national level.





So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Saturday, March 17, 2018 9:18 PM

THGRRI


Russia Russia Russia, Trump Trump Trump. I love it.


T

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Sunday, March 18, 2018 4:02 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Yes, indeed....how could Putin know about Trump. So the FSB and Putin are just ordinary players in the grand scheme of things. It's really the USA that has the upper hand over Putin and Russia, they're just defending themselves from the big bad wolf.

I heard that Trump has been in play since 1987, and that Trump has been keenly interested since the Miss Universe contest in 2013. Compromot.....now there's a word that used quite a bit in Russia. I wonder what it means? Anyway, so what you are saying is that Putin had no way of knowing that Trump would pull it off, the candidacy that is, and if that's the case then he and his cronies couldn't possibly hijack the presidency.

Interesting!

Quote:

The question is, how could Putin know to target Trump in 2011 or earlier to "create splits and divisions in the western alliance", because Trump would become a politician in 2015, would win the primary July 2016, and would win the presidency November 2016? The answer of course is that Putin couldn't know.


Well, here's your answer:

Quote:

I believe Russia is in the habit of collecting information on important people who go to Russia, as a matter of course. But that means they ALSO have information on Hillary (and others). Hillary could be just as compromised, but we'll never know, since no one seems to care.


So, let's set aside the general election.....that means that our comrade Putin has dirt on every important figure that visits Russia. Granted. Then why hasn't he put his "dossier" on Hillary out there for the world to see? Is he saving it for a rainy day? If he hates Hillary so much he could explode, then why not share his dark little secrets with the world? Why not have RT spread the news? Release the Hounds! Really, he could do it. Even if the American media is too chicken or in love with Hillary; he could release the documents. Do you know why he would hold back from exposing Hillary?

Interesting!

So again, let me ask this: Why is it that the Deep State cares more for Hillary than Trump? Why, if the Deep State was backing Hillary, did they lose? Was the International Deep State backing Trump? the National Deep State are a bunch of pussies if they can't beat a bunch of Euro-Trash Deep State(rs). But you and Sigs say that I give the FSB or the International Deep State far too much credit. Okay, so which is it? Are the national Deep State incompetent or are the international Deep State not that good? I'm confused. Which is it? Trump was not supposed to win, right!? And Hillary lost, badly. Yes, you say how did the Dems fuck up so badly, or some such.

It can't be both. Someone fucked up royally and someone did a great job. But both suck....I'm having trouble believing that both sucked at it (being Deep State) and that somehow Trump became president because he really, really wanted to and the Fairy Godmother sprinkled gold dust on his hair, and magically he was handed the Keys to the Kingdom.

So the story is the Deep State here, in the USA, fucked up....but, the international Deep State was not that good, so their contributions meant nothing.
Or did they contribute? Or was it that he won, Fair and Square! Nothing was rigged, as he stated several times. Or was it that it was rigged, but somehow, as if by magic, he won. What a miracle! Imagine, an election that wasn't tampered with, or gerrymandered, and was won because the people's vote actually mattered.
What a concept!


SGG



Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
When it comes to Trump and Putin specifically, the Steele dossier opens up with these sentences, written in 2016: "Russian regime has been cultivating, supporting and assisting TRUMP for at least 5 years. Aim, endorsed by PUTIN, has been to encourage splits and divisions in western alliance." Basically, it attributes to Putin political espionage involving Trump since at least 2011, or even earlier.

Forget the general election for the moment.

Trump announced his candidacy Tuesday, June 16, 2015. There were 16 other candidates in the primary race. They were: John Kasich, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina, Jeb Bush, Jim Gilmore, Chris Christie, Rand Paul, Rick Santorum, Mike Huckabee, George Pataki, Lindsey Graham, Bobby Jindal, Scott Walker, and Rick Perry.

With the exception of Jim Gilmore, all of them were well known, with bona fides as populist (eg Christie, Perry), pro-business (eg Fiorina) and/ or Tea Party (eg Walker) candidates.

Trump's win of the primary race against a full field of well-known politicians was unforeseen, as was his win of the presidency.

The question is, how could Putin know to target Trump in 2011 or earlier to "create splits and divisions in the western alliance", because Trump would become a politician in 2015, would win the primary July 2016, and would win the presidency November 2016? The answer of course is that Putin couldn't know.

I believe Russia is in the habit of collecting information on important people who go to Russia, as a matter of course. But that means they ALSO have information on Hillary (and others). Hillary could be just as compromised, but we'll never know, since no one seems to care.

And only focusing on Trump and assuming everyone else is clean makes about just as much sense as only drug-testing the winners in a sport, and not testing all the losers as well. The thinking being that the losers couldn't have been doping because they lost. Which is pretty silly as a presumption.

If we REALLY want to get foreign influence out of our politicians, we need to scrutinize them all, at least at the national level.





So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, March 18, 2018 4:17 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quote:

The Deep State was behind Hillary all the way. Comey was a non-swimmer in over his head.


If the Deep State was backing Hillary, then why did she lose? You see, the way it works is: You rig the system in favor of your candidate, it's customary that the person being backed.....WINS!

So, that would mean that the Deep State is incompetent.


SGG

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Sunday, March 18, 2018 7:47 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

The Deep State was behind Hillary all the way. Comey was a non-swimmer in over his head.


If the Deep State was backing Hillary, then why did she lose? You see, the way it works is: You rig the system in favor of your candidate, it's customary that the person being backed.....WINS!

So, that would mean that the Deep State is incompetent.


SGG



Or, they allowed Trump to win.

The last time we had a president this divisive, according to our MSM, was GWB. I said years ago on this very forum, before Obama was even running, that GWB was such a bad president that we might never see an old, white, conservative, supposedly religious President again.

Then Obama won in a virtual landslide against McCain. Nothing got any better. The wars didn't stop. More illegal wars were started. The keys to the internet were given to the UN. Quantitative Easing destroyed the future of the US Dollar. All without the media even talking about it.

There is more negative coverage about Trump in any given week than the bad press that Obama got in 8 years for all of the terrible things his administration did to this country.

I fear what our next Deep State friendly President will bring with them after 4 or 8 years of Trump.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, March 18, 2018 10:32 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Once you realize that most politicians are just sockpuppets, it becomes quite a challenge to identify who they're representing, especially when they label themselves as "liberal" or "Republican" ... labels designed to confuse rather than enlighten.

All I can do is quote the Bible By their works you shall know them. Also, by who they get their contributions from.


So, FWIW, after years of scrutinizing the inscrutable, here's what I think:

The CIA: International clandestine destabilization outfit, often works to support the petrodollar, transnational banks and (formerly) transnational industries. You can see their handiwork in the overthrow of governments in Central and S America, Eastern Europe and the Mideast. The CIA is often fingered as the group who organized the assassination of JFK.

Pappy Bush (HW Bush) - ties to the CIA. His Zapata Oil was supposedly a cover for CIA activities abroad. Also, deep ties to Saudi interests. His invasion of Iraq (the first one, in 1991) was at the behest of the Saudis and Kuwaitis.

GW Bush - Same deal, but less intelligent. HIS invasion of Iraq (2003) was to prevent Iraq from leaving sanctions and selling oil in something other than the dollar, breaking the petrodollar deal. You get an idea of how close GWB was to the Saudis by how he treated them in the immediate aftermath of 9-11: Those Saudi nationals who were in the USA were allowed to break the air travel ban and fly away home, thanks to intervention at the highest levels.

Bandar "Bush" bin Sultan - Well, here is the Saudi end of the CIA connection. He was so clasely tied to the Bush family he was given the informal "Bush" name. Bandar Bin Sultan was at various times the Saudi ambassador to the USA, secretary general of the Saudi National Security Council, and director general of the Saudi Intelligence Agency from 2012 to 2014. It was Bandar bin Sultan who threatened Putin with a terrorist attack on the Sochi Olympics (2014), adding one more piece of evidence to the pile of evidence that Saudi Arabia controls and uses terrorist proxies throughout the Middle East. The CIA connection in Saudi Arabia was just broken with the purge instituted by Mohammad bin Sultan, after a meeting with Trump, and Bandar "Bush" was arrested, along with a number of other CIA-friendly Saudi billionaires.

Hillary Clinton - Another globalist. As Presidential candidate, she could not receive donation DIRECTLY from foreign donors, but foreign donors got around that fact by either donating to SuperPacs (pro-Hillary organizations with - supposedly- no direct ties to her campaign) or to the Clinton Foundation. The Clinton Foundation reports that Saudi Arabia gave it over $10 million. Saudis say that the REAL total to Hillary from the Saudis was about 20% of her total campaign costs. Also, Soros (another globalist) and Soros-funded NGO's got behind Hillary in a big way. Those 33,00 emails? Most likely her "pay to play" schemes between the State Department and the Clinton Foundation. Unsurprisingly, after Hillary lost the election, donations to the Foundation dried up and it shuttered its doors.

Obama- His ties to the Saudis were much less obvious, AND YET he managed to fulfill the Saudi's interests by destroying Libya, attempting to destroy Syria, and raining drone strikes down on Yemen as part of a (formerly) secret CIA program. Obama's foreign policy was based on CIA actions, he did not rely on the military.

Trump - Well, one thing I can say is that Trump is a nationalist, not a globalist. As far as WHO is backing Trump, there is talk of a secret group of retired military and still-working alphabet-agency officers who are fed up with the way the USA has been bled to fund and support international interests everywhere. I think this group calls itself Make America Great. You may not recall, but Trump was supported by 88 retired generals during his campaign.

I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable to post about Russia. They have their own deep state of squabbling billionaire dons and bureaucrats. I have read that Putin has brought the oligarchs somewhat to heel, the deal is that they get to make money but they have to stay out of politics. But I have no idea whether any of that is true; and I doubt the western press has much useful to say about Russia and its oligarchs. For example, the oligarch who is supposedly "close" to Putin, Oleg Deripaska, was videoed in a confrontation with Putin. Whether this was a publicity stunt or not, western press seems not to be able to provide anything more than unsupported accusations/ insinuations about the Russian oligarchy, so it's a black box to me, and I haven't bothered to research it because NMP (not my problem).


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Sunday, March 18, 2018 1:32 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

The Deep State was behind Hillary all the way. Comey was a non-swimmer in over his head.


If the Deep State was backing Hillary, then why did she lose? You see, the way it works is: You rig the system in favor of your candidate, it's customary that the person being backed.....WINS!

So, that would mean that the Deep State is incompetent.


SGG



Or SGG, it could mean the deep-state did win because their guy was Trump. If that's true then it also means sig kiki jack jsf and rappy also represent the deep-state.


T

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Sunday, March 18, 2018 1:45 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


lol. yup.

I'm a Deep State Communist sockpuppet troll.

I think you need to move T. I don't know if it's because you lick lead paint off your walls or you're getting radiation poisoning from living too close to the power lines, but you're getting dumber by the day.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, March 18, 2018 3:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

So, let's set aside the general election.....that means that our comrade Putin has dirt on every important figure that visits Russia. Granted. Then why hasn't he put his "dossier" on Hillary out there for the world to see?
The question as implied might be - why didn't Russia release dirt on Hillary like they did on Trump? or, in response to dirt being released on Trump? is inaccurate. The Steele dossier isn't a RUSSIAN dossier on Trump filled with official State Secrets released by RUSSIA. We're talking about a DEMOCRAT dossier on Trump, consisting of gossip.

As for the supposed dirt on Trump we'll probably never know what the FSB knows. When it comes to the Steele dossier, it depends on how much you believe the Steele dossier.

I myself don't think it's very reliable. It starts out with two extremely problematic sentences that imply Russian time travel. And other claims in it have already been disproven.

So, while I think Russia routinely collects intelligence on VIP visitors, Russia had nothing to do with the Steele dossier. That makes using the dossier as the basis for understanding Russian information and motives, or for formulating a response to Russia, misdirected.
Quote:

So again, let me ask this: Why is it that the Deep State cares more for Hillary than Trump?
She represents their interests better when it comes to trade globalization ("free trade"), Saudi Arabia and Israel, and financialism.
Quote:

Why, if the Deep State was backing Hillary, did they lose?
They miscalculated, the same way they miscalculated Brexit. I'm pretty sure it won't happen again. Remember, it's not who votes that counts - it's who counts the votes!
Quote:

But you and Sigs say that I give the FSB or the International Deep State far too much credit.
The FSB isn't in the same league as the Deep State. The Deep State is international, serving the wealthiest and most powerful interests on the planet, global corporations. But in that are smaller groups of players, hitching along to further their own interests when they can, like the CIA. There will always be people making common cause with evil.






So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Sunday, March 18, 2018 4:50 PM

THGRRI


Who's Hillary kiki? I know about Trump Trump Trump, Putin Putin Putin, but Hillary, I can't place her. Is she a world leader or one of my government officials? I can't find any information that suggests she is relevant.


T

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Monday, March 19, 2018 3:18 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


What I'm trying to understand is who exactly is the Deep State that these guys are so obsessed about. I want them to explain just who the players are; and what their agenda is.

So far, I'm getting that Hillary is involved. So, are they Democrats?
What's confusing to me is:

Sigs says there are 2 completely separate entities fighting over how to divy up the world. They are a national and international organization.

But Keeks says that it's a international organization. And that there goal is global dominannce in the finacial markets. Financial control of the markets over the masses.

So, it follows that Trump is their natural born enemy because he's a nationalist. He's ready to combat the evils of globalization. Trump! of all people, a champion for the downtrodden American. Well now, let's see...shall we?

Trump has holdings in several countries not called the U.S. He has properties/businesses in Scotland, Dubai, Indonesia, Isreal, Panama, Philippines, Turkey, Manila, India, Dominican Republic, Uruguay, Brazil, Argentina, Vancouver and Toronto just to name a few.

I'm not getting the straight scoop here it seems. I'll try to ask again and see what transpires.


SGG



So which is it?


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

The Deep State was behind Hillary all the way. Comey was a non-swimmer in over his head.


If the Deep State was backing Hillary, then why did she lose? You see, the way it works is: You rig the system in favor of your candidate, it's customary that the person being backed.....WINS!

So, that would mean that the Deep State is incompetent.


SGG



Or SGG, it could mean the deep-state did win because their guy was Trump. If that's true then it also means sig kiki jack jsf and rappy also represent the deep-state.


T


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Monday, March 19, 2018 4:40 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Sigs says there are 2 completely separate entities fighting over how to divy up the world. They are a national and international organization.

But Keeks says that it's a international organization. And that there goal is global dominannce in the finacial markets. Financial control of the markets over the masses.

There are two distinct groups vying for control. The internationalists, for lack of a better term, have been in control for a long time. But it's not like these corporations and elites have an international army proper at their behest, or a high powered spook agency working for them. So they have to exert influence through national governments and the people in them.

Despite having a few scattered properties here and there, Trump isn't an internationalist. His holdings would be second tier vacation residences for the truly wealthy. wiki: "The net worth of the entire royal family (House of Saud) has been estimated at well over $1.4 trillion which makes them one of the wealthiest families in the world if not the wealthiest." And wiki: Exxon Mobil has a "Net income: US$19.71 billion (2017)" and "Total assets: US$348.7 billion (2017)". But "Forbes estimates that Trump is now worth $3.1 billion" in 2017. And most of that appears to be in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization




So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Monday, March 19, 2018 6:57 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
What I'm trying to understand is who exactly is the Deep State that these guys are so obsessed about. I want them to explain just who the players are; and what their agenda is.



Hey SGG: I think you know the answer.
The Deep State is Borgoroth, Sauron, The Slayer, yes, even The Alliance. They're the big bad that lurk in the shadows that can't be seen, as nasty to pin down as an egg shell in your bowl of cracked eggs. The shape shifters that can be shaped to fill any logic or plausibility gap, a writer's best friend, an enemy of the Truth. Just look at the sludge you have been given as an explanation. Sift through that slurry and you'll only find fool's gold my friend.

But I think you knew that!

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Monday, March 19, 2018 8:10 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

So far, I'm getting that Hillary is involved. So, are they Democrats?



They're Democrats and Republicans. The Clintons and the Bushes as well as Obama were all very Deep State friendly.

GWB was a far worse President than Trump has been so far, yet even he didn't get 1/10th of the pushback from the Media that Trump has.



Like I said before, I don't think that Trump would have won if the Deep State didn't want him to. It's not at all because he's "their guy". They realized how horrible a mistake for their agenda it would be to put Hillary in office and she'd probably only be a one term thing.

Trump, I believe, is pretty easy to control for them. He can't stay off that goddamned twitter and he projects his every move. The MSM can battle him everyday and get the Leftist loony useful idiots to do their work for them.

Had Hillary won, who knows what the backlash would be after 8 years of Obama and another 4 of Hillary? Everybody likes to laugh and joke about how stupid Republican Presidents are, but what if we ended up getting a really smart one who managed to rally the people behind him and didn't have a history of "grabbing pussy" or a whole shit load of ammo for the MSM to fight him on?

At the very least, Trump is a non-issue for the Deep State. Best case scenario, he might have slowed down their agenda for a few years. That's not going to matter if he ends up doing so badly that the Deep State is able to get a Super Neo-Liberal in as pushback in 2020 or 2024.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, March 19, 2018 9:17 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

What I'm trying to understand is who exactly is the Deep State that these guys are so obsessed about. I want them to explain just who the players are; and what their agenda is.
Boy, you're not asking for much, are you? The deep state has been working overtime to stay hidden, and you want a predigested answer that lays everything out in simple terms?

Like Mafia dons who are divided geographically and by income stream (some do hookers and blow in Nevada, others run numbers and smuggling in New Jersey) the elites have varying interests: some are globalists and some are nationalists; some are industrialists while others do finances or intellectual property or commodities. The elite controls the media, which is how your behavior is determined. (You really should watch "100 Centuries of Self" and then imagine that kind of manipulation applied to the news and the internet. Just sayin'.)

The DEEP STATE are those politicians*, government employees, spooks, and generals who turn the wishes of the elite into enforced policy. Here, the winnowing has been done primarily through the consistent application of money to elections and the media, but elsewhere - if the government isn't compliant enough- more direct measures are taken, such as engineering bribes, coups, assassinations, and invasions. Because, as KIKI says, the elites don't do their own military and police .... that's too expensive. Far cheaper (for them) to get the poor sods (that's us) to pay for our own exploitation with our own tax dollars. That's quite a trick!

So, who are the Deep Staters?
Who ISN'T a Deep Stater?

By the time you get to be President or Congressperson, or have wormed your way up the military, spook, or judicial ladder, you have likely sold your soul ten times over.

So that includes all past Presidents since Johnson, (Carter was a useful idiot, Bill Clinton was a born sociopath) and excluding Trump, more than likely all heads and most top-tier employees of the spook agencies and the State Department, and (probably since Bush) half of the military brass and all of the Congressional neocons of both parties. And altho technically not part of "the state", all heads of media corporations are pretty good at spreading pro-corporate and pro-government propaganda.

It's a pretty deep swamp!

* Most people don't include politicians as part of the deep state. The usual definition for a deep stater is that they must be an UNELECTED official. But in order to get those unelected officials in place, they must be appointed by an ELECTED official, or promoted under the aegis of an appointed official, because if you go up the chain or appointments/ promotions far enough you'll eventually find a politician. That's how the bureau phonebooks gets stacked with deep-staters. (You would think that the CEO of a government agency has no effect on the lower rank employees, but au contraire! Having worked thru the tenure of four CEOs in a government-agency, I can tell you that even low-ranking staffers are highly aware who is crooked and who isn't, and which way the wind is blowing. Competent staffers resent working in crooked organizations.)


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

America is an oligarchy
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