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Why The Cold War Between Tech CEOs and Trump Is About To Go Nuclear

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, March 20, 2022 09:48
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Monday, January 30, 2017 1:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


In a word: H-1B visas

But where will we get our cheap programmers from???

Quote:

Over the weekend, openly defiant CEOs, particularly among the tech sector, expressed their displeasure with Trump's Friday executive order temporarily banning refugees and limiting travel from seven Muslim countries, with both words and deeds, among which the following (summary courtesy of Axios):

VCs funding the ACLU: Several venture capitalists, as well as a few entrepreneurs, took turns soliciting donations to the American Civil Liberties Union through social media and personally matching those donations.
Airbnb volunteers to help provide housing for impacted immigrants: The home-sharing company said that it will work with travelers and organizations to provide housing for those impacted by the executive order, whether through volunteer hosts or by funding housing.
Lyft and Uber commit millions of dollars to legal aid: On Sunday, Lyft said it will donate $1 million to the ACLU over the next four years. Later in the day, Uber said it will create a $3 million legal defense fund for impacted drivers, as well as provide legal assistance and compensate their lost wages.
Google is setting up a $2 million crisis fund: The search giant has set up a fund that will donate to the American Civil Liberties Union, Immigrant Legal Resource Center, International Rescue Committee, and UNHCR.

On Monday morning, former US Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, speaking in an interview with Bloomberg Television, said that he is “gratified” by what he heard from the tech community. “As global businesses, they have a huge stake in the United States being a nation of the Statue of Liberty rather than being a nation of refugee camps.” He added that “they have a huge stake in the United States supporting an open and tolerant global system, they have that stake for their employees, their customers, they have it for the reputation of the United States and they have spoken out.”

That may be, but the biggest reason for the anger by tech CEOs at the Trump administration is a simple, and a more selfish one. The reason for the simmering cold war between tech CEOs and Trump can be summarized in just three letters: H1-B. The bottom line is that tech CEOs fear Trump will single them out for outsourcing jobs or shut down the so-called H-1B visa program they use to hire high-skilled foreign employees for crucial engineering and technical jobs.

And, as Axios adds, White House officials say they are right to be nervous, especially about changes to the visa program. Chief strategist Steve Bannon and policy chief Stephen Miller are known to be deeply skeptical of the program, and will have a strong, vocal ally when Jeff Sessions gets confirmed as Attorney General. Some further observations:

Trump's mixed messages: On the campaign trail, he promised to "end forever the use of H-1B as a cheap labor program." He later signaled in a meeting with tech leaders that he's most concerned about companies misusing the visas to displace lower-wage American workers.
How it works: Visas are capped at 65,000 a year, with 20,000 additional visas for foreign workers with master's degrees. The demand for the visas is so high that the cap is usually exceeded within a few days of the application window opening. The visas are distributed to companies through a lottery system.

Tech companies such as Microsoft, Google, IBM, Cisco, Apple, Intel and Facebook say the visas are crucial for specialized jobs they can't fill domestically because of a shortage of American graduates with the right technical skills. When CEOs spoke out over the weekend about the ban, they pointed out the importance of allowing the "best and brightest" to work in the U.S.

* * *

Which is why if a news report about Trump's next imminent executive order is accurate, the simmering cold war between the tech CEOs and Trump is about to nuclear.

Bloomberg reports that the Trump administration has drafted an executive order aimed at overhauling the work-visa programs technology companies depend on to hire tens of thousands of employees each year. If implemented, the reforms could force wholesale changes at India companies such as Infosys Ltd. and Wipro Ltd., and shift the way American companies like Microsoft Corp., Amazon.com Inc. and Apple Inc. recruit talent. Companies would have to try to hire American first and if they recruit foreign workers, priority would be given to the most highly paid.

The draft of Trump’s executive order covers an alphabet soup of visa programs, including H-1B, L-1, E-2 and B1. The first is a popular program with technology companies and is aimed at allowing them to bring in high-skill workers when they can’t find local hires with the appropriate skills. The legislation caps the number of people who can enter the U.S. annually at 85,000, including those with undergrad and master’s degrees.

The average salary of an H-1B worker at Apple is reportedly more than $100k.

“Our country’s immigration policies should be designed and implemented to serve, first and foremost, the U.S. national interest,” the draft proposal reads, according to a copy reviewed by Bloomberg. “Visa programs for foreign workers … should be administered in a manner that protects the civil rights of American workers and current lawful residents, and that prioritizes the protection of American workers -- our forgotten working people -- and the jobs they hold.”

The foreign work visas were originally established to help U.S. companies recruit from abroad when they couldn’t find qualified local workers. But in recent years, there have been allegations the programs have been abused to bring in cheaper workers from overseas to fill jobs that otherwise may go to Americans. The top recipients of the H-1B visas are outsourcers, primarily from India, who run the technology departments of large corporations with largely imported staff.



“If firms are using the program for cheap labor, I think it will affect them and they will have to pay workers more,” said Ron Hira, an associate professor at Howard University. “If tech firms are using the program for specialized labor, they may find there are more visas available.”



The Trump administration did not respond to a request for comment on the draft. The proposal is consistent with the president’s public comments on pushing companies to add more jobs to the U.S., from auto manufacturing to technology.

It’s not clear how much force the executive order would have if it is signed by the president. Congress is also working on visa reforms and the parties will have to cooperate to pass new laws. Zoe Lofgren, a Democratic congresswoman from California, introduced a bill last week to tighten requirements for the H-1B work visa program.

"My legislation refocuses the H-1B program to its original intent – to seek out and find the best and brightest from around the world, and to supplement the U.S. workforce with talented, highly-paid, and highly-skilled workers,” Lofgren said in a statement.

Meanwhile, as Bloomberg adds, India’s technology companies, led by Tata Consultancy Services Ltd, Infosys and Wipro, have argued they are helping corporations become more competitive by handling their technology operations with specialized staff. They also contend the visa programs allow them to keep jobs in the U.S. and that if they have to pay more for staff, they will handle more of the work remotely from less expensive markets like India. Trump, however, see things differently.

“Inspections and investigations in the past have shown no cases of wrongdoing by Indian IT services companies, which have always been fully compliant with the law,” said R Chandrashekhar, president of Nasscom, the trade group for India’s information technology sector. “The industry is open to any kind of checks in the system, but they should not cause any hindrance to the smooth operation of companies.



The proposed Trump order is also aimed at bringing more transparency to the program. It calls for publishing reports with basic statistics on who uses the immigration programs within one month of the end of the government’s fiscal year. The Obama Administration had scaled back the information available on the programs and required Freedom of Information Act requests for some data.



Whatever specific changes are implemented, they are likely to add to the expenses for India’s technology companies. That may accelerate a shift to new kinds of services, such as cloud computing and artificial intelligence, said Raja Lahiri, partner at the Mumbai-based partner at consultancy Grant Thornton India

“The visa challenges are not going to go away easily,” he said. “They will continue to be a challenge for Indian IT companies.”

But while the pain for India will be acute, it will be Silicon Valley that may be most impacted, as suddenly its favorite source of cheap, skilled labor is eliminated. How it will responds remains to be seen.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-30/why-cold-war-between-tech-ceo
s-and-trump-about-go-nuclear


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Monday, January 30, 2017 3:57 PM

THGRRI


About your source for most of the fake news you post here SIG.

Zero Hedge is a batshit insane Austrian school finance blog run by two pseudonymous founders who post articles under the name "Tyler Durden," after the character from Fight Club.It's essentially apocalypse porn. It has accurately predicted 200 of the last 2 recessions.

The site posts nearly indecipherable analyses of multiple seemingly unrelated subjects to point towards a consistent theme of economic collapse any day now.

Only people who are trolls post opinions from there SIG.

____________________________________________

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Monday, January 30, 2017 5:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The Zero Hedge article essentially reposts two sources - Bloomberg and Axios Media.

Bloomberg is a well-established 'source' with a known focus and bias.

Axois Media (wiki): AXIOS Media or Axios is a news and information company started in 2016 by Politico co-founder Jim VandeHei, former Chief White House correspondent at Politico, Mike Allen, and former Politico Chief Revenue Officer Roy Schwartz. Axios launched in 2017.[1] In the summer of 2016, it secured $10 million in a round of financing led by Lerer Hippeau Ventures. Backers include NBC News, Emerson Collective, Greycroft Partners, and David and Katherine Bradley, owners of Atlantic Media.[1]

The company has a mission statement that consist of, “Media is broken—and too often a scam.” It plans to focus on "business, technology, politics, and media trends."[1]


Whether or not Axios posts 'fake news' remains to be seen.

But at least half the article comes from a source - Bloomberg - even you, THUGGER, would find legitimate.

Which you would have known if you exercised your (admittedly deficient) reading skills and actually read the article.

Assuming you can stop being such a troll, of course.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Tuesday, January 31, 2017 12:36 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

In a word: H-1B visas But where will we get our cheap programmers from???= SIGNY

So you're ok paying more for your computer?- GSTRING

In a word: yes. That's how "trickle down" works: money trickles down from this who can afford to pay more for luxury items to those who work making them.

Quote:

I don't think you understand the relationship between Business and Consumers.
I don't think you understand the relationship between business and workers.

Quote:

You can boil most all of that down to the fact, repeated several times:
"the visas are crucial for specialized jobs they can't fill domestically because of a shortage of American graduates with the right technical skills."
When we produce more home grown programmers with the right skills they won't have to look over seas. = GSTRING

Baloney.
I know expert programmers and scientists- EXPERT programmers and scientists - both American-educated and "imported", and to a person they (including the imports) will tell you that the ONLY reason to hire foreign programmers and scientists is to reduce costs. It has nothing to do with skills. Companies laid off excellent native-born programmers, only to replace them with (in many cases) more poorly-trained H-1B imported labor.

I see these imports- Indians and Chinese, mostly - and how they are treated by our subcontractors: They're "sponsored" by their employers, and are hostage -literally- to the company who sponsors them. I see the same four (Indian) subcontract programmers who come in by bus every day, and waiting together at the bus stop in the evening, because (1) none of them can afford a car and (2) they all have to rent together because they can't afford their own rental. Most of these H-1B people - at least the ones I know- are working scared. Meanwhile, perfectly suited, well-skilled American graduates go begging for jobs.

Don't believe that crap about STEM (science, technology, engineering and math) is going to save you from joblessness or poverty.


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


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Tuesday, January 31, 2017 2:26 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


When I was laid off in 2009 this is exactly what happened. My job didn't go to India, my salary went to India. For what they were paying me, they were able to staff 5 or 6 skilled people in India.

I worked along side an Indian named Harish that was learning the job to go back to his country and teach it to others. I wasn't mad at him personally. I knew this is just the way things are going and he was just doing his job. He was getting paid quite a lot while in the States, and was going to make a lot less when he went home. He was saving that money while working here and said he'd be a rich man when he went home with what he saved. I don't remember what he said everything costs, but I do remember him saying that you could buy a new car in India for $6,000 US, and a pack of smokes for 25 cents US. This was in Chennai India back around 2007 or so.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 31, 2017 5:38 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Then you native experts are being priced out of the market - welcome to Retail 101! That's called Competition!



That's called America is Screwed because of Globalism.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 31, 2017 5:57 PM

RIVERLOVE


I buy quality stuff and I try to pay as little as possible for it. I really don't care where it comes from.

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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 12:27 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Especially with the Internet making shipping from Hong Kong doable ..." ?

Shipping is made doable by large freighters running on cheap bunker fuel.

I THINK what you meant to say is that the internet makes it possible to SHOP globally. And cheap shipping delivers the goods.

It's probably true that most people, with limited disposable income, will buy the cheapest thing that'll do the job. That doesn't make it sustainable. It becomes the race to the bottom.

I wonder if purchase price is the true dividing line between the haves and the have-nots. People who need to be frugal (because staying afloat is a possibility) watch their pennies and buy cheaply because they need to. People with too much money buy the most expensive things they can, as much as they can, just to show everyone that they can.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 12:38 AM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
About your source for most of the fake news you post here SIG.

Zero Hedge is a batshit insane Austrian school finance blog run by two pseudonymous founders who post articles under the name "Tyler Durden," after the character from Fight Club.It's essentially apocalypse porn. It has accurately predicted 200 of the last 2 recessions.

The site posts nearly indecipherable analyses of multiple seemingly unrelated subjects to point towards a consistent theme of economic collapse any day now.

Only people who are trolls post opinions from there SIG.

____________________________________________

The one sane voice. ^

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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 12:42 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well RF, I guess you're another 'source' Nazi, who would rather debate 'sources' than facts and logic. I even suspect a 'good source' is one that confirms your beliefs, no matter how flimsy and contradictory. While a 'bad source' is one that challenges them, no matter how factually founded and well-reasoned.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 12:54 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The moral for making better decisions is clear: wanting to be fair and objective alone isn't enough. What's needed are practical methods for correcting our limited reasoning – and a major limitation is our imagination for how else things might be. If we're lucky, someone else will point out these alternatives, but if we're on our own we can still take advantage of crutches for the mind like the "consider the opposite" strategy.

"Ask yourself at each step whether you would have made the same high or low evaluations had exactly the same study produced results on the other side of the issue."

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170131-why-wont-some-people-listen-t
o-reason


How to get people to overcome their bias

How do you persuade somebody of the facts? Asking them to be fair, impartial and unbiased is not enough. To explain why, psychologist Tom Stafford analyses a classic scientific study.
By Tom Stafford

31 January 2017

One of the tricks our mind plays is to highlight evidence which confirms what we already believe. If we hear gossip about a rival we tend to think "I knew he was a nasty piece of work"; if we hear the same about our best friend we're more likely to say "that's just a rumour". If you don't trust the government then a change of policy is evidence of their weakness; if you do trust them the same change of policy can be evidence of their inherent reasonableness.

Once you learn about this mental habit – called confirmation bias – you start seeing it everywhere.

This matters when we want to make better decisions. Confirmation bias is OK as long as we're right, but all too often we’re wrong, and we only pay attention to the deciding evidence when it’s too late.

How we should to protect our decisions from confirmation bias depends on why, psychologically, confirmation bias happens. There are, broadly, two possible accounts and a classic experiment from researchers at Princeton University pits the two against each other, revealing in the processing a method for overcoming bias.

One possibility is that we simply have a blindspot in our imagination for the ways the world could be different

The first theory of confirmation bias is the most common. It's the one you can detect in expressions like "You just believe what you want to believe", or "He would say that, wouldn't he?" or when the someone is accused of seeing things a particular way because of who they are, what their job is or which friends they have. Let's call this the motivational theory of confirmation bias. It has a clear prescription for correcting the bias: change people's motivations and they'll stop being biased.

The alternative theory of confirmation bias is more subtle. The bias doesn't exist because we only believe what we want to believe, but instead because we fail to ask the correct questions about new information and our own beliefs. This is a less neat theory, because there could be one hundred reasons why we reason incorrectly – everything from limitations of memory to inherent faults of logic. One possibility is that we simply have a blindspot in our imagination for the ways the world could be different from how we first assume it is. Under this account the way to correct confirmation bias is to give people a strategy to adjust their thinking. We assume people are already motivated to find out the truth, they just need a better method. Let's call this the cognition theory of confirmation bias.

Confirmatory evidence strengthened people's views, as you'd expect, but so did disconfirmatory evidence

Thirty years ago, Charles Lord and colleagues published a classic experiment which pitted these two methods against each other. Their study used a persuasion experiment which previously had shown a kind of confirmation bias they called 'biased assimilation'. Here, participants were recruited who had strong pro- or anti-death penalty views and were presented with evidence that seemed to support the continuation or abolition of the death penalty. Obviously, depending on what you already believe, this evidence is either confirmatory or disconfirmatory. Their original finding showed that the nature of the evidence didn't matter as much as what people started out believing. Confirmatory evidence strengthened people's views, as you'd expect, but so did disconfirmatory evidence. That's right, anti-death penalty people became more anti-death penalty when shown pro-death penalty evidence (and vice versa). A clear example of biased reasoning.

For their follow-up study, Lord and colleagues re-ran the biased assimilation experiment, but testing two types of instructions for assimilating evidence about the effectiveness of the death penalty as a deterrent for murder. The motivational instructions told participants to be "as objective and unbiased as possible", to consider themselves "as a judge or juror asked to weigh all of the evidence in a fair and impartial manner". The alternative, cognition-focused, instructions were silent on the desired outcome of the participants’ consideration, instead focusing only on the strategy to employ: "Ask yourself at each step whether you would have made the same high or low evaluations had exactly the same study produced results on the other side of the issue." So, for example, if presented with a piece of research that suggested the death penalty lowered murder rates, the participants were asked to analyse the study's methodology and imagine the results pointed the opposite way.

They called this the "consider the opposite" strategy, and the results were striking. Instructed to be fair and impartial, participants showed the exact same biases when weighing the evidence as in the original experiment. Pro-death penalty participants thought the evidence supported the death penalty. Anti-death penalty participants thought it supported abolition. Wanting to make unbiased decisions wasn't enough. The "consider the opposite" participants, on the other hand, completely overcame the biased assimilation effect – they weren't driven to rate the studies which agreed with their preconceptions as better than the ones that disagreed, and didn't become more extreme in their views regardless of which evidence they read.

The finding is good news for our faith in human nature. It isn't that we don't want to discover the truth, at least in the microcosm of reasoning tested in the experiment. All people needed was a strategy which helped them overcome the natural human short-sightedness to alternatives.

The moral for making better decisions is clear: wanting to be fair and objective alone isn't enough. What's needed are practical methods for correcting our limited reasoning – and a major limitation is our imagination for how else things might be. If we're lucky, someone else will point out these alternatives, but if we're on our own we can still take advantage of crutches for the mind like the "consider the opposite" strategy.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:55 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


let me sum it up by saying they're all against it

http://www.investopedia.com/news/cook-zuckerberg-bezos-tech-ceos-trump
s-immigration-order-aapl-fb
/

Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple Inc

Facebook Inc. (FB) CEO Mark Zuckerberg

Twitter Inc.'s (TWTR) CEO, Jack Dorsey

Brian Chesky, founder of Airbnb

Jeff Bezos, leader of ecommerce giant Amazon.com Inc

Logan Green, Lyft






How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 3:00 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 3:01 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/31/more-tech-ceos-speak-out-against-t
rumps-immigration-order
/

Insomniac Games CEO Ted Price, Evernote's Chris O'Neill, and Reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian

Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 3:22 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.







How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 3:27 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


In the past ... much of the evidence that H-1B holders were paid relatively low salaries was anecdotal. But a recent Freedom of Information Act request by Hira yielded a trove of data showing how serious those abuses are.

The five companies that hired the largest number of H-1B workers in 2013 -- Accenture, Cognizant, Infosys, Tech Mahindra, and Wipro -- pay those workers a median salary of about $64,000 a year. That compares to the approximately $100,000 a year earned by the fired workers at Disney.



http://www.infoworld.com/article/3004501/h1b/proof-that-h-1b-visa-abus
e-is-rampant-in-tech.html


By Bill Snyder

The fix is in: Proof that H-1B visa abuse is rampant
Outsourcers in particular have found a way to avoid the requirement to pay foreign workers the same wages as Americans

InfoWorld | Nov 12, 2015

Major outsourcers, largely based in India, are obtaining the lion's share of the 85,000 H-1B visas issued each year and are paying salaries far below the prevailing wages for American IT workers -- a violation of the spirit, if not the letter, of the H-1B rules. New information from U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, the federal agency that oversees the H-1B program, finally proves what critics have long suspected: H-1B abuse is real and rampant.

The H-1B program is designed to let U.S. companies hire foreigners at prevailing wages when they can't find qualified Americans. And U.S. companies, especially those in Silicon Valley, have been clamoring for years to raise the cap of 85,000 so that they can hire more foreign workers. They've long denied the charges that they've exaggerated the employee shortage, so they can instead reduce wages by importing workers.

But now we know major H-1B users have in fact rigged the system to do exactly that.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 8:57 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


While Trump is shrinking the H-1B program:
Does Trump need to forbid too many foreigners from American graduate schools?
Does Trump need to command more native-born Americans to finish graduate school?

www.nfap.com/pdf/New%20NFAP%20Policy%20Brief%20The%20Importance%20of%2
0International%20Students%20to%20America,%20July%202013.pdf



A 2013 report by the National Foundation for American Policy found that international students comprised between 50% and 70% of full-time graduate students in a wide variety of STEM areas, including electrical engineering, computer science, industrial engineering, economics, chemical engineering, materials engineering, and mechanical engineering. Yet, it is already increasingly difficult to keep them working here after school. We are basically educating our foreign students with all our resources and best minds only to tell them they are not welcome based on their religion or place of origin and then see them return to their own countries to build businesses that compete with U.S. companies. We need to align our university admission policies with our immigration policies to encourage more amazing people to come to the United States—and not just to Silicon Valley—to be educated and then employed here.

In addition, the H-1B program does not address the true needs of the tech community, much less the wider business community in all sectors, which increasingly rely on knowledge workers. Creating an “extreme vetting” process and reducing the H-1B program further will exacerbate the problem.
https://qz.com/899778/nest-founder-tony-fadell-trumps-immigration-orde
r-will-damage-american-competitiveness
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 9:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

About your source for most of the fake news you post here SIG.
Zero Hedge is a batshit insane Austrian school finance blog run by two pseudonymous founders who post articles under the name "Tyler Durden," after the character from Fight Club.It's essentially apocalypse porn. It has accurately predicted 200 of the last 2 recessions. The site posts nearly indecipherable analyses of multiple seemingly unrelated subjects to point towards a consistent theme of economic collapse any day now.
Only people who are trolls post opinions from there SIG. = IDIOT

The one sane voice. My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with the facts - REAVER





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:23 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


So, let's see... It turns out that the "fake news" website that I linked to WAS CORRECT: H-1B visas are on the table, and giant tech companies are crying because they "can't find enough American STEM graduates to fill their openings".

I hope that the Trump administration sees that for the crock of shit that it is and tells them to take a long walk off a short pier.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:28 AM

THGRRI


Tips for analyzing news sources:

OpenSources Steps for Analyzing Websites:

Website Labels for OpenSources.co:


Working Website List for Opensources.co:

EXAMPLE BELOW OF THREE TYPES; FALE, BIAS, CONSPIRACY, AND SO ON.




100percentfedup.com

bias




21stcenturywire.com

conspiracy




24newsflash.com

fake




365usanews.com

bias

conspiracy



4threvolutionarywar.wordpress.com

bias

conspiracy



70news.wordpress.com

fake




82.221.129.208

conspiracy

fake



aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk

unreliable




abcnews.com.co

fake




abcnewsgo.co

fake




abeldanger.net

conspiracy




abovetopsecret.com

conspiracy

rumor



abriluno.com

satire

fake



aceflashman.wordpress.com

satire




Acting-Man.com

unreliable

conspiracy



activistpost.com

conspiracy




addictinginfo.org

clickbait

unreliable



adobochronicles.com

satire




advocate.com

political

credible



aheadoftheherd.com

bias




ahtribune.com

unreliable

bias



allnewspipeline.com

unreliable

conspiracy



Alt-Market.com

conspiracy

bias



alternet.org

political

credible



americanblog.com

unknown




americanfreepress.net

conspiracy

bias



AmericanKabuki.blogspot.com

junksci




americanlookout.com

bias

clickbait



americannews.com

fake




americanoverlook.com

fake




americanpatriotdaily.com

bias

clickbait

bias


americanprogress.org

political

credible



americanreviewer.com

conspiracy




Follow link to see zerohedge and many many more. The list runs A-Z.



zerohedge.com

conspiracy




zootfeed.com

conspiracy







https://docs.google.com/document/d/10eA5-mCZLSS4MQY5QGb5ewC3VAL6pLkT53
V_81ZyitM/preview


____________________________________________

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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:48 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, let's see... It turns out that the "fake news" website that I linked to WAS CORRECT: H-1B visas are on the table, and giant tech companies are crying because they "can't find enough American STEM graduates to fill their openings".

I hope that the Trump administration sees that for the crock of shit that it is and tells them to take a long walk off a short pier.

While Trump decreases the H-1B for engineers and programmers maybe he can deport Doctors and Dentists?

Signyn, sarcasm on: Those foreigners ought to leave the country because healthcare is far too cheap in America and foreigners are keeping wages unnaturally low for native-born Americans who have to compete with those foreigners for your healthcare dollars. Sarcasm off, Signym.


https://qz.com/899492/trumps-immigration-ban-america-doesnt-have-enoug
h-doctors-and-closing-borders-will-make-the-situation-worse
/

More than a quarter of America’s physicians and surgeons (28%, as of 2015) were born outside the US, according to data from the American Community Survey (ACS)—a yearly survey conducted by the Census Bureau. The majority of those immigrants are naturalized American citizens, but nearly 75,000 (7.5% of all doctors) are non-citizens working on visas.

The aging American population has a growing shortage of physicians and surgeons. The American Association of Medical Colleges (AAMC) estimates that by 2025 the shortfall will be at least 62,000 doctors, and possibly as many as 95,000.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:58 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
The Zero Hedge article essentially reposts two sources - Bloomberg and Axios Media.

Bloomberg is a well-established 'source' with a known focus and bias.

Axois Media (wiki): AXIOS Media or Axios is a news and information company started in 2016 by Politico co-founder Jim VandeHei, former Chief White House correspondent at Politico, Mike Allen, and former Politico Chief Revenue Officer Roy Schwartz. Axios launched in 2017.[1] In the summer of 2016, it secured $10 million in a round of financing led by Lerer Hippeau Ventures. Backers include NBC News, Emerson Collective, Greycroft Partners, and David and Katherine Bradley, owners of Atlantic Media.[1]

The company has a mission statement that consist of, “Media is broken—and too often a scam.” It plans to focus on "business, technology, politics, and media trends."[1]


Whether or not Axios posts 'fake news' remains to be seen.

But at least half the article comes from a source - Bloomberg - even you, THUGGER, would find legitimate.

Which you would have known if you exercised your (admittedly deficient) reading skills and actually read the article.

Assuming you can stop being such a troll, of course.



Simple logic allows me to point out that you are able to list the reporters and editors for Axios. You could do the same for Bloomberg if you wished.

You can not do that with zerohedge. They hide their identities. Why would they do that unless they did not want their names associated with what they write. It shows they do not stand by what they write. Only idiots, stooges and trolls do, and that's you and SIG.


____________________________________________

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Wednesday, February 1, 2017 3:20 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


While Trump is attacking H-1B visas, maybe he should attack the pharmaceutical industry? Too many foreigners work there for Trump to be comfortable. Throw them out of America and replace them with native-born Americans. This could be the beginning of another meticulously crafted Trump plan to make America great again:

According to a 2014 study by researchers at George Mason University, immigrants made up 13 percent of the U.S. population in 2011, but made up 17 percent of the pharmaceutical industry labor force. That reliance has only increased according to Justin Lowry, a postdoctoral researcher at George Mason's Institute for Immigration Research: An estimate using 2015 data shows that immigrants made up 23 percent of the pharma workforce. Lowry said the industry is “very heavily reliant” on foreign-born workers.
www.immigrationresearch-info.org/report/other/immigrants-working-us-ph
armaceuticals


And among those who work in research and development — the engine of discovery and innovation for the industry — immigrants made up one-third of the labor force, according to the 2014 report. Foreign-born scientists made up 43 percent of medical and life scientists.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/02/01/big-pharma-depends-on-i
mmigrants-it-kept-quiet-about-the-travel-ban
/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly`

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Thursday, February 2, 2017 6:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

While Trump is attacking H-1B visas, maybe he should attack the pharmaceutical industry? - SECONDHAND


He is.

Yanno, you're funny SECONDRATE - attacking Trump for not doing "enough" of what Obama should have been doing all along. But for all of Obama's pious hand-wringing about the misfortunes of the middle class, it seems all Obama could do was promote jobs in other countries as he pushed for "free trade", and watch helplessly as money FLOODED upwards and the wealth gap went from awful to catastrophic.

NOW, all of the sudden, you're "worried" about American jobs?

What a fucking hypocrite. No wonder Hillary lost.





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


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Thursday, February 2, 2017 6:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Tips for analyzing news sources:- DUMBERTHANABOXOROCKS


HEY STUPID!
*waves arms*
YEAH, YOU, THUGR!

Do you want to know how to analyze "news sources"?
YOU DON'T
You're supposed to be analyzing the news, not the sources, ya bonehead!
Analyzing news sources is like ... no, it IS .... letting someone else do your thinking for you.

What you should be doing is looking at a VARIETY of sources. You will find valid news in some of the strangest places, and some of the most "reliable" sites (like BBC, CNN, MSNBC) will publish some of the worst crap: yanno, like Brexit isn't going to pass, and Hillary is going to win.

One of the things that "news sources" do is simply stop publishing unfavorable news like

... whatever happened to Syria? It was big news not four weeks ago, now all of the sudden it doesn't exist? Oh yeah, that's right: It's a big fat failure for Obama's policy (whatever that was) so it's best not to say too much about it now. All of those "poor Syrians" just fell off the face of the earth, as far as your "news sources" are concerned.

And those "white Helmets"? Gone, you say?

And that "dossier" which was so all-fired important not one short week ago? Disappeared from the news as thoroughly as an apparatchik was disappeared from Kremlin group photos?


Dood, it's up to YOU to figure out what's real and what isn't. Stop depending on your "sources" because they've led you astray many times already (WMD, Libya, Syria, Brexit, election 2016 etc) and you should have noticed THAT by now, if nothing else.

BTW- if you want to know how to analyze "the news" just pay attention to which stories turn out to be true. And pay attention to which stories aren't featured, or suddenly disappear. One of the easiest ways to lie is simply by omitting facts, so YOU have to be the Kremlinologist when looking at our "news".



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


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Thursday, February 2, 2017 7:22 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Tips for analyzing news sources:- DUMBERTHANABOXOROCKS


HEY STUPID!
*waves arms*
YEAH, YOU, THUGR!

Do you want to know how to analyze "news sources"?
YOU DON'T
You're supposed to be analyzing the news, not the sources, ya bonehead!
Analyzing news sources is like ... no, it IS .... letting someone else do your thinking for you.




If you can't trust the source you can't trust what they say. And if they refuse to give their identities and stand behind what they report, ( zero hedge ) then they are a source you cannot trust.

Others are wasting their time debating you. They are debating fake news. They should challenge you every time you quote one of these fake news sources by pointing out your source. By not doing so they give fake news a foot hold in these threads.

____________________________________________
Russia parliament votes 380-3 to decriminalize domestic violence

Russia's parliament voted 380-3 on Friday to decriminalize domestic violence in cases where it does not cause "substantial bodily harm" and does not occur more than once a year.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/01/27/russian-parliament-decri
miinalizes-domestic-violence/97129912/

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Thursday, February 2, 2017 8:09 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

While Trump is attacking H-1B visas, maybe he should attack the pharmaceutical industry? - SECONDHAND


He is.

Yanno, you're funny SECONDRATE - attacking Trump for not doing "enough" of what Obama should have been doing all along. But for all of Obama's pious hand-wringing about the misfortunes of the middle class, it seems all Obama could do was promote jobs in other countries as he pushed for "free trade", and watch helplessly as money FLOODED upwards and the wealth gap went from awful to catastrophic.

NOW, all of the sudden, you're "worried" about American jobs?

What a fucking hypocrite. No wonder Hillary lost.

Hillary lost because she would not walk across the stage and kick Trump is the balls. If she had tried, she would have looked foolish by attempting to kick him in the ankle, missing the ankle, then falling on her butt.

Trump said a great deal over the years. Now that he is President, it is time for the White House to cash the checks Trump's mouth wrote. He should either give you, Signym, the full amount on the check or he can say that his account is overdrawn.

Instead, Trump is only giving Signym a nominal amount on each check he wrote and then telling you he has paid in full.

I am mocking Trump at how short he has fallen from his promises. Maybe when it is the year 2020, Trump will have to get more serious and less disorganized about those promises if he is going to be reelected. Trump will actually need to have a written down plan of action, rather than improvise day after day for 4 years. But in the meantime, Trump looks like he is stalling on keeping his promises.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, February 2, 2017 8:40 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


The headline in today's Houston Chronicle is "Trump threatens to send troops to Mexico". In phone call, president says if Peña Nieto can’t stop ‘bad hombres,’ U.S. forces will. How long will Trump wait before he acts? I'm excited by the potential for a Trump military Fiasco in Mexico. Hurry, Trump. Hurry!

http://time.com/4657474/donald-trump-enrique-pena-nieto-mexico-bad-hom
bres
/

I just realized that when Trump's Pentagon attacks the Mexican Drug Cartels he will also be slowing the flow of illegals across the border. Trump will be achieving two of his campaign goals simultaneously! But there is the probability that Mexican refugees fleeing from the fighting might cross illegally into the USA. I'm hopeful Trump will have a plan to handle that, because Trump is very wise and very competent. His first week in office proves it.

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Thursday, February 2, 2017 8:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

If you can't trust the source you can't trust what they say.-STUPID
If you TRUST a source ... ANY source ... then you're being unbelievably stupid.

Now, about Zerohedge: Most of their articles are from other sources, with names and websites, or linked to the original source in the post. They are incredibly (small "c") catholic about where they get their news and opinions from: It could be anywhere from Reuters to RT, BBC to Xinhua, Fox News to Huffington Post to International Business Times (IBT).

This is how I handle Zerohedge: I scan their headlines. Most of them are blah-blah-blah about VIX or quadruple crosses or other "insider baseball" about stocks and investments. The few headlines that I find interesting, I GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL SOURCE, which is available most of the time, or I DOUBLE CHECK OTHER SOURCES. If I find the article exceptionally interesting and prescient, I make a point of remembering who wrote it, and I start mentally recording their track record: how often did what they say or predict on which topic turn out to be true? Most writers have a bent and an area of expertise. I think I found both Syria Direct (pro-rebel) and Southfront (pro-government) through Zerohedge.

Does it sound like a lot of work? YES, IT DOES. Fortunately, I know a few real newshounds as well- two Canadian friends, one who is a retired journalist and who knows everybody including the CNN station chief in a major mideast country, and we belong to an email list where I'm a minor contributor.

I WISH I COULD JUST SIT DOWN AND READ THE NEWS, but if there's one thing I know, everybody spins the news, EVERYBODY. "Reliable" news organizations like BBC and CNN and MSNBC post just a tiny fraction of the real news, and that tiny fraction is extremely biased. They spin the news just as much as RT or Xinhua or Zerohedge, if not more. So NOBODY just gives you the news, and if you think they do, then you're gullible.
Quote:

And if they refuse to give their identities and stand behind what they report, ( zero hedge ) then they are a source you cannot trust.
As I said, most of their stories are from named sources or linked to named sources, and the fact that you don't know that tells me that you don't know Zerohedge, so anything you say about it is bogus.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


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Thursday, February 2, 2017 8:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

I am mocking Trump at how short he has fallen from his promises. -SECONDARTE
But then, you're horrified on how far he goes at keeping his promises. You can't have it both ways, but the fact that you keep trying just shows me what a snowflake you are.

Give it time, SECONDHAND. Trump has only been President less than a month. In short order, you will be horrified at how much of what he's promised will be delivered. And then you can really complain.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


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Thursday, February 2, 2017 9:13 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Does it sound like a lot of work? YES, IT DOES. Fortunately, I know a few real newshounds as well- two Canadian friends, one who is a retired journalist and who knows everybody including the CNN station chief in a major mideast country, and we belong to an email list where I'm a minor contributor.

Signym, you sound even more qualified as a journalist than Adam Baldwin. You could follow Jayne’s example: write for and be written about at Breitbart. Breitbart workers who have gone to White House include Julia Hahn, Special Assistant to President Donald Trump, and Steve Bannon, White House chief strategist.

www.breitbart.com/author/adam-baldwin/
www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/02/23/adam-baldwin-quits-twitter-calls-for
-jack-dorseys-resignation
/
www.breitbart.com/london/2015/02/24/adam-baldwin-could-have-been-the-l
atest-victim-of-the-censorious-left
/

I am really excited about the possibility of Signym getting a White House job, once Signym does well at Breitbart. Go for it, Signym! Aim high! The USA needs your deep insights.

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Thursday, February 2, 2017 6:03 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

If you can't trust the source you can't trust what they say.-STUPID
If you TRUST a source ... ANY source ... then you're being unbelievably stupid.

Now, about Zerohedge: Most of their articles are from other sources, with names and websites, or linked to the original source in the post. They are incredibly (small "c") catholic about where they get their news and opinions from: It could be anywhere from Reuters to RT, BBC to Xinhua, Fox News to Huffington Post to International Business Times (IBT).

This is how I handle Zerohedge: I scan their headlines. Most of them are blah-blah-blah about VIX or quadruple crosses or other "insider baseball" about stocks and investments. The few headlines that I find interesting, I GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL SOURCE, which is available most of the time, or I DOUBLE CHECK OTHER SOURCES. If I find the article exceptionally interesting and prescient, I make a point of remembering who wrote it, and I start mentally recording their track record: how often did what they say or predict on which topic turn out to be true? Most writers have a bent and an area of expertise. I think I found both Syria Direct (pro-rebel) and Southfront (pro-government) through Zerohedge.

Does it sound like a lot of work? YES, IT DOES. Fortunately, I know a few real newshounds as well- two Canadian friends, one who is a retired journalist and who knows everybody including the CNN station chief in a major mideast country, and we belong to an email list where I'm a minor contributor.

I WISH I COULD JUST SIT DOWN AND READ THE NEWS, but if there's one thing I know, everybody spins the news, EVERYBODY. "Reliable" news organizations like BBC and CNN and MSNBC post just a tiny fraction of the real news, and that tiny fraction is extremely biased. They spin the news just as much as RT or Xinhua or Zerohedge, if not more. So NOBODY just gives you the news, and if you think they do, then you're gullible.
Quote:

And if they refuse to give their identities and stand behind what they report, ( zero hedge ) then they are a source you cannot trust.
As I said, most of their stories are from named sources or linked to named sources, and the fact that you don't know that tells me that you don't know Zerohedge, so anything you say about it is bogus.




Ok SIG, first of all what I said was

"If you can't trust the source you can't trust what they say. And if they refuse to give their identities and stand behind what they report, ( zero hedge ) then they are a source you cannot trust." I never added the stupid as you suggest.

Secondly, you are trusting that zero hedge is not changing anything about the stories they are quoting. Like you did by adding stupid to the quote. If they are hiding who they are then they can't be trusted not to do that. And SIG, it has been established that they combine stories to make it appear as though something is going on that is not. JUST AS YOU DO. WHAT THEY SUBMIT AS TRUE AS YOU DO IS NOTHING MORE THAN SUBJECTIVE CRAP!

As always SIG, you are making unintelligent arguments.

____________________________________________
Russia parliament votes 380-3 to decriminalize domestic violence

Russia's parliament voted 380-3 on Friday to decriminalize domestic violence in cases where it does not cause "substantial bodily harm" and does not occur more than once a year.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/01/27/russian-parliament-decri
miinalizes-domestic-violence/97129912/

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Friday, February 3, 2017 12:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Totally wrong of course, again - the same cut-n-paste nonsense pumped back up with hot air and re-posted. You know you have posted that several times before, right?-GSTRING
Yes, I know, but it has not yet sunk in: You can't trust ANY source, and yet.... you still do. Because here is THUGR, still talking about "trusting sources"!

Quote:

"If you can't trust the source you can't trust what they say. - THUGR
THUGR, son, try to talk about the media without ever once using the word "trust". Do you suppose that's possible?

Quote:

Secondly, you are trusting that zero hedge is not changing anything about the stories they are quoting- THUGR
OMFG

I assume that they DO change things about ANYTHING that they post. That's why I check on interesting stories with other sources! Wow, what will it take for the concept to sink in?




-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


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Friday, February 3, 2017 11:29 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Totally wrong of course, again - the same cut-n-paste nonsense pumped back up with hot air and re-posted. You know you have posted that several times before, right?-GSTRING
Yes, I know, but it has not yet sunk in: You can't trust ANY source, and yet.... you still do. Because here is THUGR, still talking about "trusting sources"!

Quote:

"If you can't trust the source you can't trust what they say. - THUGR
THUGR, son, try to talk about the media without ever once using the word "trust". Do you suppose that's possible?

Quote:

Secondly, you are trusting that zero hedge is not changing anything about the stories they are quoting- THUGR
OMFG

I assume that they DO change things about ANYTHING that they post. That's why I check on interesting stories with other sources! Wow, what will it take for the concept to sink in?




When I say trust, it is that I trust these people are who they say they are. That their reputations are on firm ground, good or bad. Your defense for using zero hedge, is that you find the stories of these people who hide in the dark interesting. Then you post them here and defend them to the point of lunacy. You even admit that they probably change the text of the stories they are quoting. Yet you claim I am the one who is ignorant.

Really?

____________________________________________
Russia parliament votes 380-3 to decriminalize domestic violence

Russia's parliament voted 380-3 on Friday to decriminalize domestic violence in cases where it does not cause "substantial bodily harm" and does not occur more than once a year.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/01/27/russian-parliament-decri
miinalizes-domestic-violence/97129912/

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Saturday, February 4, 2017 11:26 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


troll.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


In any case, there are too many news items about tech ceos opposing Trump on the 'travel ban' to think it was just an aberrant zh blip. And there is too much data indicating tech companies hire A LOT of h1b visa holders - and want to hire even more, to think it was just an aberrant zh blip. AND there's too much data indicating that they hire those h1b visa holders BECAUSE THEY CAN PAY THEM SUBSTANTIALLY LESS, to think it was just an aberrant zh blip.

So much for the 'sources' contingent having anything credible to say on the topic.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Saturday, February 4, 2017 12:32 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


THUGGER

"Simple logic allows me to point out that you are able to list the reporters and editors for Axios. You could do the same for Bloomberg if you wished.

You can not do that with zerohedge."

But I CAN and do follow their links back to the original source to make sure zh is providing an accurate rendition.

I see it as one of zh's pluses - they nearly always provide links back to the original, often back to the original report, video, paper or transcript that most other so-called news sources merely briefly quote, without links.

In general, I consider links back to the original to be THE MOST IMPORTANT indicator of good-faith news reporting. On the flip side, when I find original sources and compare them to so-called news reports about them by the bbc, or nytimes, or wapo - for example - I almost always find significant misrepresentation.

In my experience, the presence links back to the original is a good guarantor of good reporting. While the lack of links back to the original is a good guarantor of bad reporting.

Meanwhile, while zh may or may not accurately predict the future on this topic, their facts were sound. Unlike, well, yours. Mostly because you didn't have any.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Friday, March 3, 2017 10:50 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


California Public University Fires 79 IT Workers; Replaces With H-1B Visa Holders

It seems that a group of 79 recently fired IT workers at the University of California San Francisco, whose jobs have been replaced by H-1B visa holders from India, may have finally found an issue on which they can agree with Trump. According to the University Professional and Technical Employees CWA Local 9119 this mass firing is the first time a public university has offshored American IT jobs. Per ARS Technica:

In a statement sent yesterday, UPTE-CWA says the layoffs could spread, since the HCL contract can be utilized by any of the 10 campuses in the University of California system, the nation's largest public university. "US taxes should be used to create jobs in the US, not in other countries," said Kurt Ho, a systems administrator who was quoted in the union's press release. Ho was required to train his replacement as a condition of getting his severance pay.

Meanwhile, the laid off IT workers from San Francisco, who almost certainly backed Hillary, have suddenly had a change of heart on immigration, at least as it relates to H-1B visa issuance which is primarily utilized to attract IT talent from India.

Ho, who earns about $100,000, told the LA Times that he spent two days training his replacement in a process that UCSF called "knowledge transfer."



"He told me he would go back to India and train his team and would be sending me e-mails with questions," Ho said.



Audrey Hatten-Milholin, who earned $127,000 at her job, says other replacements were around for two weeks. "What was shocking is that the system is so complex there’s no way you can learn it in two weeks," she said.



Thirteen of the workers are considering filing a lawsuit, saying the way they were fired amounts to discrimination, Computerworld reported.



"There’s talk about fixing things, and no [one] has done it yet,” laid-off worker Bizhan Tabatabaian told Computerworld. "And I’m the proof."

Of course, this latest mass firing follows calls from the Trump administration to restrict the H-1B program which Trump described as "neither high-skilled [labor] nor immigration; these are temporary foreign workers, imported from abroad, for the explicit purpose of substituting for American workers at lower pay."

Now, a draft of a new Trump executive order related to the issuance of H-1B visas, viewed by Axios, reportedly directs the Secretary of Homeland Security to consider ways to "make the process of H-1B allocation more efficient and ensure the beneficiaries of the program are the best and the brightest."



While that directive could be accomplished in a variety of ways, one likely solution would be to replace the current lottery system with one that prioritizes visas for those earning the highest salaries. And while such a solution will have wide-ranging impacts on various companies and industries seeking foreign workers, one key takeaway is that it will pit India's large IT-staffing firms against Silicon Valley's tech giants.

MY POSITION ON VISAS#MakeAmericaGreatAgain #Trump2016https://t.co/JGmOd5gr5z pic.twitter.com/OLg6N3Ug9U

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 4, 2016



Per the graphic below, large Indian consulting firms are by far the largest users of the H-1B visa program. That said, most of the jobs created by those companies tend to have lower salaries than those created by the likes of Microsoft, Google and Facebook.



MORE AT http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-02/california-public-university-
fires-79-it-workers-replaces-h-1b-visa-holders




-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake

THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL

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Friday, March 3, 2017 2:06 PM

DREAMTROVE



It's already on, they got him to cave on their workers


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Friday, March 3, 2017 2:22 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


That's pretty much what happened to me. If they can't replace us with robots, they'll just find cheaper labor. Welcome to the new world order.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, March 3, 2017 4:35 PM

SOCKPUPPET


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
That's pretty much what happened to me. If they can't replace us with robots, they'll just find cheaper labor. Welcome to the new world order.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


Scary robots.

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Friday, March 3, 2017 8:00 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by SOCKPUPPET:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
That's pretty much what happened to me. If they can't replace us with robots, they'll just find cheaper labor. Welcome to the new world order.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


Scary robots.



That's the Dream I remember - you use to post some of the best soft core stuff.



I, for one, welcome our new Robot Overlords.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, March 3, 2017 8:06 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
That's pretty much what happened to me. If they can't replace us with robots, they'll just find cheaper labor. Welcome to the new world order.



Did you type that on the most expensive computer you could find? Welcome to the old world consumer.




Nope. I posted it on a computer I built myself about 5 years ago. That's the newest tech I have in my house.

The most expensive computer I ever had was one that my mom bought on HSC back when I was in high school. It was $2000. It was a 486 with a 33mhz processor, 4mb of ram and a 250mb hard drive.


My mom never bought stuff off of HSC, so I don't know how the hell that happened. She must have been flipping thorugh stations and was mesmerized by the grainy video of Shamu the Whale from the included Compoton's Interactive Encyclopedia.

I bought a 2x CD burner for it that set me back about $350 bucks and got into the pirate game burning CD's long before mp3s and Napster were even a thing ;)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, March 3, 2017 8:53 PM

SOCKPUPPET

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Friday, March 3, 2017 9:23 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


My uncle gave us his Apple ][ e when he upgraded to an IBM. I was excited as shit. Then my mom dropped it on the ground bringing it inside.

Years later I saw it down in the basement and opened it up. One of those HUGE old school chips had come lose and was out of the board. I fired it up with Ghostbusters in the drive. It made it all the way to the title screen before promptly catching on fire and in a puff of smoke my Apple ][ e dreams were gone. :(

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, March 4, 2017 9:06 AM

DREAMTROVE


:(

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Saturday, March 4, 2017 9:59 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by G:

That's the Dream I remember

Stave off winter with a little Summer.





The first clip is from an episode called "Allison from Palmdale" which was probably the highpoint for TSCC. The whole series could probably have been reduced to Cameron and Sara Connor scenes. Shirley Manson of Garbage in the 2nd season. A little too much soap opera style quick scene switching overall in the show. But Summer is great in it. The character parallels with River Tam for me. Worth watching for some more scary robot

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Saturday, March 4, 2017 3:44 PM

OONJERAH



re: 1st computers ...

      Mine was an Apple///.




... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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Saturday, March 4, 2017 6:30 PM

DREAMTROVE


We were going to get one, then my dad read an article ont the number of software titles available for each platform, and it pointed out that apple III was a different platform. So, Never saw the III, saw the Lisa and then the mac, so that was the year, then the III was gone, so i'm guessing this was '83?

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Saturday, March 4, 2017 7:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Against the advice of my dad and my bro I watched TSCC. I was able to be just as pissed off as they were that they left the series on a cliffhanger and FOX killed another good show.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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