REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Dow @ 20K. Time to jump off!

POSTED BY: JO753
UPDATED: Monday, January 22, 2018 20:49
SHORT URL:
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Thursday, November 9, 2017 1:44 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow closed today at 23,563.

365 days ago Trump was elected.
That is an increase of 5,231. More than 28.5% gain in one year - the first year after the Democraps were defeated.

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Wednesday, November 22, 2017 2:36 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow closed today at 23,590. Yet another all-time high.

An increase of 3,858 since taking office.

An increase of 5,258 since Election Day.

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Wednesday, November 22, 2017 7:55 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Yeah....

My new job doesn't start matching until next year. I will have missed the boat by then, I'm sure.

It's great for people who have a 401k now, but I really can't see why the DOW keeps going up like this. While it hasn't gotten worse, there's no indication for the working class that things have gotten any better in the last year.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 3:43 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow closed at 23,836 today. Yet another all-time high. More than 1% increase over the previous all-time high, all gained in one day.

A total increase of 4,104 since taking office, 10 months plus a week ago. A gain of 20.8%, or 24.3% APR.

An increase of 5,504 since Election Day, 55 weeks ago. A gain of more than 30%, or 28.4% APR.

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 6:30 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


LOL... at this point, I have to start agreeing with JO. If I did have money in aggressive funds, it would be time to start putting it into much safer investments. The world in general is far too volitile right now, and I think we're due for a major correction. I don't see any reason why the DOW should be doing this well. Regardless of who's president, this just reeks of "bubble".

And speaking of bubbles... how the fuck is BitCoin over 10,000 bucks today? If I sunk all the money I had into bitcoin this time last year when I was watching videos about it and considering it, I would be set for life.

And you bet your ass I'd be selling every single one of them right now and not feeling bad if it continues to go up more before that comes crashing down. HARD.

There are a lot of people who are getting into that game way too late, and they're going to lose A LOT of money.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 2:21 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
LOL... at this point, I have to start agreeing with JO. If I did have money in aggressive funds, it would be time to start putting it into much safer investments. The world in general is far too volitile right now, and I think we're due for a major correction. I don't see any reason why the DOW should be doing this well. Regardless of who's president, this just reeks of "bubble".

And speaking of bubbles... how the fuck is BitCoin over 10,000 bucks today? If I sunk all the money I had into bitcoin this time last year when I was watching videos about it and considering it, I would be set for life.

And you bet your ass I'd be selling every single one of them right now and not feeling bad if it continues to go up more before that comes crashing down. HARD.

There are a lot of people who are getting into that game way too late, and they're going to lose A LOT of money.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

As the thread title clearly states, Jump Out JO said to avoid this 19% gain in your life savings by getting out at 20k.

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 2:29 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I haven't had any money in the market for 8 years now. Can't win or lose if you don't play.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, November 30, 2017 2:08 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow closed at 23,940 today.

An increase of 4,208 since taking office. That is 21.3% gain, almost 25% APR.

An increase of 5,608 since Election Day. A 30.6% gain, almost 30% APR.

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Thursday, November 30, 2017 3:40 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I haven't had any money in the market for 8 years now. Can't win or lose if you don't play.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Yes, you lose. When the rest of the world gains and you are in neutral getting passed by, you lose. Unless you think your dollar is not subject to inflation devaluation.

A friend was interested in learning chess from me, essentially strategy and tactics - she had known all her life the moves and rules. She asked why she couldn't just move the same piece back and forth on 2 different squares. I explained that she could, but her opponent would keep making useful moves until all her pieces were captured.

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Thursday, November 30, 2017 4:24 AM

OONJERAH


I can play chess like an idiot-not-savant.
All I know is how the pieces move. Strategy never enters my head.
But I love this movie:

Searching for Bobby Fischer (1993)
Joe Mantegna, Ben Kingsley



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Thursday, November 30, 2017 7:18 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Yes, you lose.



Meh. I have a paid for house and car and an 822 credit score. Working part time now pays the bills and will give me some extra fun money, and I get to spend half the week doing whatever I want to do.

I'm good.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, November 30, 2017 7:34 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
I can play chess like an idiot-not-savant.
All I know is how the pieces move. Strategy never enters my head.
But I love this movie:

Searching for Bobby Fischer (1993)
Joe Mantegna, Ben Kingsley



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

If you like the moves of chess without the history and memorization, you should try Vendetta Chess. Can play 2, 3, or 4 players, or 2 players each playing 2 sides. There is no Game End with Checkmate, a player's set of pieces is captured only if and when the King is captured - many times a Checkmate does not result in King Capture. Rooks, Bishops and Queens can travel twice the distance, and the resulting angles are amazing.

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Thursday, November 30, 2017 7:38 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I thought I was good at chess until I played on Yahoo Games.

I'm not good at chess.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, December 1, 2017 2:34 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow closed at 24,272 today. A gain of another 1.5% almost, in one day. Almost 3% of new territory within 3 days.

An increase of 4,540 since taking office. Which is 23%, or 26.8% APR.

An increase of 5,940 since Election Day. Which is 32.4%, or over 30.5% APR.

Plus, 21% gain since crossing above 20K, when Jump Out JO said to Jump Out.

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Friday, December 1, 2017 3:53 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I think I see a bead uv swet on your brow, JSF!

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Friday, December 1, 2017 5:12 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
I think I see a bead uv swet on your brow, JSF!

why? My funds are tax sheltered, which means my gains are 150% of what the market accomplishes.

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Friday, December 1, 2017 5:48 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


So....

If the market accomplishez a 90% drop, you owe 35% uv wutever it wuz befor?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Friday, December 1, 2017 10:33 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Not sure what you're getting at there JSF. Nobody is going to tell me that they've got a winning system in the market. I believe that as much as I believe people who say the same thing with slot machines.

I've got a 401k next year that the company will match 100% of the first 6% of pay. That will be 100% gains just putting the money in there, on top of avoiding 10% tax penalty on anything that goes in as well. I figure between that and an HSA I should shelter most of my income from the lowest tax bracket tax next year. It's all going into safe funds though. I'm getting too old to gamble, and my money is a lot harder earned that it was when I won a lot on the market.


Tax breaks and company matches are the only sure things in the market. Anybody else telling you otherwise is selling you snake oil.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, December 2, 2017 3:02 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
So....

If the market accomplishez a 90% drop, you owe 35% uv wutever it wuz befor?

No. When the market has dropped more than 10%, I have made money, far more than when it gains in new territory. That's what happens when you use your noggin for more than a hatrack.

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Saturday, December 2, 2017 3:06 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Not sure what you're getting at there JSF. Nobody is going to tell me that they've got a winning system in the market. I believe that as much as I believe people who say the same thing with slot machines.

I've got a 401k next year that the company will match 100% of the first 6% of pay. That will be 100% gains just putting the money in there, on top of avoiding 10% tax penalty on anything that goes in as well. I figure between that and an HSA I should shelter most of my income from the lowest tax bracket tax next year. It's all going into safe funds though. I'm getting too old to gamble, and my money is a lot harder earned that it was when I won a lot on the market.


Tax breaks and company matches are the only sure things in the market. Anybody else telling you otherwise is selling you snake oil.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Your State and Federal Income Tax totals only 10%?
You should try to verify that one of the funds available to you tracks with Government Bond Funds, essentially U.S. Treasury notes. That fund will be unable to lose value while the market collapses.

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Saturday, December 2, 2017 3:27 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Your State and Federal Income Tax totals only 10%?
You should try to verify that one of the funds available to you tracks with Government Bond Funds, essentially U.S. Treasury notes. That fund will be unable to lose value while the market collapses.



Nah... I'm just saying that there will only be about $4,000 that even gets hit with the FED taxes after the standard deduction and personal exemption. That doesn't include the royal screwing we all get on every dime for Social Security, and the state and local taxes of around 5% after the first $1,000.

I'm making a little more at this job which kind of sucks. It's not enough that it's going to make my life any better. It will be enough to disqualify me for being able to apply for any food stamps/energy assistance/cheap internet, it might take me off of the state insurance, or it will at least raise the monthly payment quite a bit, and I'm going to get hit with a lot more taxes that aren't made up at all by the EIC that a single guy gets.

In theory, it sounds nice that I'm making 3 bucks more an hour than I did at my last job. In practice, I'm not actually going to be any better off than I was at near-minimum wage unless I can get a promotion or at least full time work.


I'm not going to bitch too much though. With no mortgage and car payment, I was able to live on about $4,000-$4,500 this year, including my property tax payment. Whatever's left after the government takes their cut will be going this year to a new car that I'm not looking forward to have to pay for.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, December 4, 2017 8:46 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow closed at 24,290 today.


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Monday, December 4, 2017 8:56 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Dow closed at 24,272 today. A gain of another 1.5% almost, in one day. Almost 3% of new territory within 3 days.

An increase of 4,540 since taking office. Which is 23%, or 26.8% APR.

An increase of 5,940 since Election Day. Which is 32.4%, or over 30.5% APR.

Plus, 21% gain since crossing above 20K, when Jump Out JO said to Jump Out.

BTW, that 32% in only 1 year and 3 weeks is double the 16% that Obama and the Democraps allowed in their first 2 years. Like 4x the Rate of gains.

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Monday, December 11, 2017 7:47 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Steve Mnuchin. Need I say moore?

No, but I cant help myself!

If you asked 10 cartoonists to create a money grubbing coniving executiv karakter, 7 uv them woud look exactly like Mnuchin and the other 3 woud be less rediculously obvious.

And this iz the guy in charj uv the Nationz money.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trumps-treasury-dept-embarrass
es-itself-one-page-analysis


I cant help but suspect that he'll be in Meuller'z sites befor its all over.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Tuesday, December 12, 2017 8:39 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow closed at 24,504 today.

An increase of 4,772 since taking office. A 24.2% increase, or 27% APR.

An increase of 6,272 since Election Day. A 33.7% increase in 57 weeks, or 30.7% APR.

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Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:25 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow closed 24,585 yesterday, which was today for me.

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Friday, December 15, 2017 9:24 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Not sure what you're getting at there JSF. Nobody is going to tell me that they've got a winning system in the market. I believe that as much as I believe people who say the same thing with slot machines.

I've got a 401k next year that the company will match 100% of the first 6% of pay. That will be 100% gains just putting the money in there, on top of avoiding 10% tax penalty on anything that goes in as well. I figure between that and an HSA I should shelter most of my income from the lowest tax bracket tax next year. It's all going into safe funds though. I'm getting too old to gamble, and my money is a lot harder earned that it was when I won a lot on the market.


Tax breaks and company matches are the only sure things in the market. Anybody else telling you otherwise is selling you snake oil.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

On the way to becoming a millionaire (actually it is $1,066,757), if you invested in Vanguard mutual funds in the last 27 years, there were 6 years when you lost money or barely broke even. 2018 could be another losing year. You never know.

https://adviseronline.investorplace.com/portfolio/
Beginning Value: $50,000 Jan 1, 1991
Present Value: $1,066,757 Dec 1, 2017

Current Performance
Y.T.D. 21.5%
1-yr 23.3%
3-yr 10.5%
5-yr 15.3%

2016 9.6%
2015 1.4% a poor year
2014 10.9%
2013 34.2%
2012 14.3%
2011 -1.4% a minus year
2010 14.3%
2009 34.4%
2008 -38.4% a minus year
2007 10.0%
2006 18.4%
2005 11.4%
2004 15.7%
2003: 32.0%
2002: -17.8% a minus year
2001: -6.4% a minus year
2000: 20.4%
1999: 36.3%
1998: 23.5%
1997: 23.2%
1996: 16.6%
1995 26.1%
1994: -0.2% a minus year
1993: 16.6%
1992: 6.1%
1991: 28.9%

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, December 15, 2017 3:08 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Looks like a loose pattern there, 2nd - around 5 yirz between drops.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Friday, December 15, 2017 9:03 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow closed at 24,651 today.

An increase of 4,919 since taking office. Which is 24.9%, or 27.7% APR.

An increase of 6,319 since Election Day. Which is 34.5%, or 31% APR.

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Monday, December 18, 2017 10:26 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Keep your eyez on the big guyz. There will be sum event sumwhere that nobody notisez and a wale will start selling. He will probably hav sum reazonable boring explanation ready in case anybody asks - 'tranzitioning to unrelated opportunityz' bloated to a few hundred obfuscating wordz with the purpose uv making everybody think therez nothing going on. But woc how fast he tryz to sell, the prise getting lower & lower at an akselerating rate.

And its not like the orijinal reazon haz to be truly important. All that haz to happen iz investorz start to notis that the wale iz moving, then the smaller fish will follow and in a flash its a stampede, then an avalanche that takes down everything.

A possible trigger just happened. The Senate passed Trump's debt exploder bujet. Hoo cannot see the parallel to Bush jr'z wakadoodle financial poliseez?

Maybe you meant a trigger to skyrocket.

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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 9:32 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow closed at 24,792 on Monday. All 3 major indices hit all-time highs.

That is an increase of 5,060 since taking office. That's 25.6% or 28.1% APR.

An increase of 6,460 since Election Day. That's 35.2% or 32.7% APR.

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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 10:06 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Dow closed at 24,792 on Monday. All 3 major indices hit all-time highs.



*Voice of Doom from some Marvel flic* "Corporations gorging on the fat of The People. There will be a Reckoning."

==============================

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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 11:07 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Dow closed at 24,792 on Monday. All 3 major indices hit all-time highs.


*Voice of Doom from some Marvel flic* "Corporations gorging on the fat of The People. There will be a Reckoning."

Millions of hard working Americans letting their retirement accounts ride the backs of the enterprising corporations.

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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 11:36 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Dow closed at 24,792 on Monday. All 3 major indices hit all-time highs.



*Voice of Doom from some Marvel flic* "Corporations gorging on the fat of The People. There will be a Reckoning."

Millions of hard working Americans letting their retirement accounts ride the backs of the enterprising corporations.



Do you mean "hardly working" Americans because those corps sent their jobs overseas?

Curious:
- How many employed Americans do you think are reaping the benefits of this market?
- Do you think these corps are creating jobs with this new, flash bounty?
- Do you remember the bust of 2008? When people's retirement accounts nearly evaporated? If so, do you think this kind of national retirement gamble (surely that is what this is) is wise?


==============================

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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 1:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Dow closed at 24,792 on Monday. All 3 major indices hit all-time highs.


*Voice of Doom from some Marvel flic* "Corporations gorging on the fat of The People. There will be a Reckoning."

Millions of hard working Americans letting their retirement accounts ride the backs of the enterprising corporations.


Do you mean "hardly working" Americans because those corps sent their jobs overseas?

no. Just because Obama sent the job overseas like he promised he would does not mean Americans stopped working hard. Now they just have to work harder at their multiple 28hour jobs under Obamanomics.
Quote:


Curious:
- How many employed Americans do you think are reaping the benefits of this market?

All who have 401Ks. I suppose "dummy" would be redundant.
Quote:


- Do you think these corps are creating jobs with this new, flash bounty?

what flash bounty? The pent up funds are finally being freed after Obama holding them back for near a decade.
Quote:


- Do you remember the bust of 2008?

yes, vividly - but clearly you don't. It began in Oct 2007 when the Rock-the-Vote Democraps had their first Federal Budget take effect, and continued under Obamas stomping it down, until it finally withstood the havoc of Obamination, bottoming on 9 Mar 2009, IIRC. Yes, I more than doubled my retirement fund during this time, sometimes gaining 12% in only 4 days.
Quote:

When people's retirement accounts nearly evaporated? If so, do you think this kind of national retirement gamble (surely that is what this is) is wise?=
you should stick with a pension plan, and don't worry your simple little head about building a retirement fund where the Grown Ups do.

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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 3:21 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


https://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21722890-governme
nts-safety-net-private-pensions-fraying-will-president-trump


Will President Trump rescue failing pension funds?

The government’s safety net for private pensions is fraying

Print edition | Finance and economics
Jun 1st 2017 | WASHINGTON, DC

TO THE exasperation of budget hawks, Donald Trump has long made clear that he will not reform Social Security (public pensions). But maintaining these entitlements does not fully protect workers’ retirement income. For many, pension promises from their employers are more important. These can shrink or vanish when firms fail. And, like Social Security, the programme that protects retirees against such losses—the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation—is going bust.

The PBGC levies premiums on defined-benefit pension plans in order to bail out those that fail (up to a maximum payout per worker). On current trends, one of its insurance schemes will probably run dry by 2025. The problem is so-called “multi-employer” funds (see chart). These involve multiple firms, usually under an agreement with an industry-wide union. They cover about 10m Americans, roughly 1m of whom are in a plan that admits it is probably broke. The biggest struggler is the Central States fund, which covers about 400,000 current and former truck drivers.

A multi-employer plan is a fragile thing. When a participating firm goes under, others must pick up the tab for its workers, or “orphans”. But surviving firms have an escape route. They may withdraw from a plan so long as they pay their share of its projected deficit. Because funds often assume unrealistically high investment returns, such shortfalls are usually understated. That makes withdrawing from a plan a good deal for the firm and a bad one for the orphans.

Over time, reality bites. So just as it is best to be at the front of the queue during a bank run, it is best to be the first firm to exit the plan. The only obstacle is that the relevant union must agree to a withdrawal. But workers, fearing that their employer might go bust, or needing to win concessions on other matters, often do. For example, UPS, a delivery firm, pulled out of the Central States plan in 2007.

Such exits have caused the health of multi-employer plans to worsen rapidly. In turn, that threatens PBGC, which is on the hook whenever a plan fails. At last count, the agency’s multi-employer programme had assets of a little over $2bn supporting liabilities of over $61bn.

What is to be done? The Trump administration’s proposed budget for 2018 plugs the hole by raising premiums dramatically, charging more to plans with bigger deficits, and levying a punitive “exit premium” on quitters. This builds on an Obama-era proposal simply to let PBGC decide what premiums to charge. Firms, fearing hefty rises, hated that idea, and will probably lobby against Mr Trump’s plan, too, should it become draft legislation.

In any case, raising premiums can only do so much. If firms quit plans en masse, there will be nobody left to pay premiums, says Joshua Gotbaum, who ran PBGC from 2010 to 2014. So it is more important to prevent failures by allowing firms to trim future payouts. A law passed in 2014 set up a process for such restructurings. Its prime target was the Central States plan. Yet the Obama administration rejected its restructuring proposal in 2016.

Mr Trump’s attitude to pension cuts is still unknown. (It may already be too late to save Central States.) Left-wing Democrats oppose benefit cuts, because they want the taxpayer to prop up failing plans. Yet an attempt at this failed in 2010, when Democrats controlled government. With Republicans in charge it is a pipe-dream.

That is true even with the populist Mr Trump in the White House. During recent budget negotiations, a push to bail out miners’ pensions failed (only their health plan got more money). And if miners cannot win concessions under Mr Trump, it is unlikely that anyone else can.

==============================

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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 3:30 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Curious:
Quote:

- How many employed Americans do you think are reaping the benefits of this market?
All who have 401Ks. I suppose "dummy" would be redundant.



I asked "How many?" Not "How do you spell "JEWELSTAITEFAN?" So *thanks* for being the dummy.

It doesn't look like many:

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/06/19/does-the-average-american-h
ave-a-401k.aspx


Does the Average American Have a 401(k)?
The answer might surprise you.

Maurie Backman (TMFBookNerd) Jun 19, 2017 at 6:29AM
There's a reason 401(k) plans are a popular choice for those looking to set aside money for the future. Not only are contributions traditionally tax-free, but because they're deducted directly from earnings, the process of funding a 401(k) is as seamless as can be. That's why it's surprising to learn that the average American does not, in fact, have a 401(k) -- especially given the number of employees who have the option to participate in one.

Or take advantage of them:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-21/two-thirds-of-ameri
cans-aren-t-putting-money-in-their-401-k


I'm sure it was Obama's fault though, so you don't have to explain.

==============================

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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 5:25 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Well... I did have a great job with a 401k and 100% company match until about a year after Obama was elected.

That's really Clinton's fault though. I couldn't blame that on Obama anymore than you could blame it on Trump.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 8:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Well... I did have a great job with a 401k and 100% company match until about a year after Obama was elected.:)

I wasn't aware so many were refusing to participate in retirement funds, but I shouldn't be surprised.
I don't even remember the last time I heard of a job without 401k.

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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 8:44 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Curious:
Quote:

- How many employed Americans do you think are reaping the benefits of this market?
All who have 401Ks. I suppose "dummy" would be redundant.


I asked "How many?" Not "How do you spell "JEWELSTAITEFAN?" So *thanks* for being the dummy.

It doesn't look like many:

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/06/19/does-the-average-american-h
ave-a-401k.aspx


Does the Average American Have a 401(k)?
The answer might surprise you.

Maurie Backman (TMFBookNerd) Jun 19, 2017 at 6:29AM
There's a reason 401(k) plans are a popular choice for those looking to set aside money for the future. Not only are contributions traditionally tax-free, but because they're deducted directly from earnings, the process of funding a 401(k) is as seamless as can be. That's why it's surprising to learn that the average American does not, in fact, have a 401(k) -- especially given the number of employees who have the option to participate in one.

Or take advantage of them:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-21/two-thirds-of-ameri
cans-aren-t-putting-money-in-their-401-k


I'm sure it was Obama's fault though, so you don't have to explain.

apparently the number is a hot secret. But phrases like "typical American" imply most. Your own link indicates at least 2/3 of Americans.

Do you have clear figures on how many have a retirement account, or 401k?

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Tuesday, December 19, 2017 10:46 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Well... I did have a great job with a 401k and 100% company match until about a year after Obama was elected.:)

I wasn't aware so many were refusing to participate in retirement funds, but I shouldn't be surprised.
I don't even remember the last time I heard of a job without 401k.



At this point, I have to assume you're joking. I'm not going to outright accuse you of trolling.

The three or four jobs I've had since I got laid off did not offer a 401k. It's not a matter of refusing to participate.

I'd never accuse you of being an Elitist, JSF, but it must be nice to run in the circles that you run in. Even during the times in my life that I was fortunate enough to make good money and have a nice 401k plan I knew plenty of people who didn't have the option.

More than 50% of American households today make less than the federal poverty level. My guess is that less than 50% of the jobs out there offer any kind of retirement plan at all. Even if it were more, many of those people couldn't afford to participate even if it was offered. The only reason I'd be able to next year when I would be eligible for the 100% match on the first 6% of almost nothing is because I don't have a mortgage or car payment. I don't believe there are many other people in this country making near minimum that could say that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, December 20, 2017 3:47 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I hav a glimmer uv hope that the crash will be so bad that the banks will go under. Yay! No more morgaj!

Probably not worth the other problemz that go along with a Depression size crash, but still a brite spot in a gloomy picture.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Wednesday, December 20, 2017 8:11 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Yeah. I seen that movie. I think it was Mad Max Beyond the Thunderdome.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, December 20, 2017 9:59 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


First therez Mad Max. Then around 10 yirz later its at the Road Warrior faze. Another 10 yirz or so and you got yer Thunderdome.

Or it coud go really bad much faster. Did you see The Road?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Wednesday, December 20, 2017 10:07 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
apparently the number is a hot secret.



I should clarify again: I was asking you what you thought that number was, because you seem to imply (and I wanted to verify) that most Americans have a 401k. Did you have a guess before you read the article I posted?

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
But phrases like "typical American" imply most.



I don't see the phrase "typical American" in that article. I see "average American."

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Your own link indicates at least 2/3 of Americans.


No it doesn't. The article actually says only 32% do.

Here, the salient bits:

How many companies offer 401(k)s?
According to data from the U.S. Census Bureau, only 32% of Americans are saving for retirement in a 401(k). Granted, that owes partly to the fact that 401(k)s are employer-dependent, and not every company offers one.

Data from the Census Bureau suggests that as little as 14% of all employers offer a 401(k), yet Census researchers recently estimated that 79% of Americans work for an employer that sponsors a 401(k)-style retirement plan. How is that possible? Large companies that employ high numbers of workers are the most likely to sponsor retirement plans.

All that said, not everyone who's offered an employer-sponsored plan actually takes advantage of it. Of those 79% of Americans who get the choice to fund a 401(k), only 41% opt to participate. As such, just 32% of the total workforce is saving in a 401(k).

I'll point out that that last underlined detail is about working Americans, not ALL Americans, so the total would be even lower. So the average American does not have a 401k, and most of those that do, do not fund it each year. This market is great for wealthy people, simple.

==============================

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Wednesday, December 20, 2017 6:02 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Apparently, in 2006 there were 51 million Americans with a 401k. Not including IRA, 301b, 403b, etc.

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Wednesday, December 20, 2017 6:09 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Well... I did have a great job with a 401k and 100% company match until about a year after Obama was elected.:)

I wasn't aware so many were refusing to participate in retirement funds, but I shouldn't be surprised.
I don't even remember the last time I heard of a job without 401k.


At this point, I have to assume you're joking. I'm not going to outright accuse you of trolling.

The three or four jobs I've had since I got laid off did not offer a 401k. It's not a matter of refusing to participate.

I'd never accuse you of being an Elitist, JSF, but it must be nice to run in the circles that you run in. Even during the times in my life that I was fortunate enough to make good money and have a nice 401k plan I knew plenty of people who didn't have the option.

More than 50% of American households today make less than the federal poverty level. My guess is that less than 50% of the jobs out there offer any kind of retirement plan at all. Even if it were more, many of those people couldn't afford to participate even if it was offered. The only reason I'd be able to next year when I would be eligible for the 100% match on the first 6% of almost nothing is because I don't have a mortgage or car payment. I don't believe there are many other people in this country making near minimum that could say that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I was talking about a real job, not a McJob or other ObamaJob.
You were a Barista, right?
A real job would be a career job, not a temp, or part time, or minimum wage job.
I don't expect babysitters to have a 401k.

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Wednesday, December 20, 2017 6:12 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I was talking about a real job, not a McJob or other ObamaJob.
You were a Barista, right?
A real job would be a career job, not a temp, or part time, or minimum wage job.



I was an IBM Mainframe Production Control Analyst until 2009 when my salary went to India to pay 10 people who probably had Masters degrees and could speak at least 2 languages. My job experience at that point didn't amount to diddly since I couldn't even get my foot in the door for an interview anywhere due to my lack of a college degree. Doesn't matter that I can run circles around most people who have one, particularly if it's in the "Arts".

I was never a barista. When I wasn't rehabbing houses, I was pretty much doing shitty retail jobs ever since.

More than half of Americans have McJobs or ObamaJobs. Most of those are part time and/or close to minimum wage. For many people, those are "real jobs".

As I said... It must be nice to run in the circles you run in.



But hey... I've been hearing for years now how the unemployment rate has never been better.....


Yay.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, December 20, 2017 6:19 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
apparently the number is a hot secret.

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Your own link indicates at least 2/3 of Americans.

No it doesn't.

The words in the link you posted state 2/3 of Americans don't put money in their 401Ks.
2/3 of Americans.
In THEIR 401Ks.
401k accounts that they have.
Yes, the link that you posted does indicate that, because it used those words.

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Wednesday, December 20, 2017 6:23 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I was talking about a real job, not a McJob or other ObamaJob.
You were a Barista, right?
A real job would be a career job, not a temp, or part time, or minimum wage job.



I was an IBM Mainframe Production Control Analyst until 2009 when my salary went to India to pay 10 people who probably had Masters degrees and could speak at least 2 languages. My job experience at that point didn't amount to diddly since I couldn't even get my foot in the door for an interview anywhere due to my lack of a college degree. Doesn't matter that I can run circles around most people who have one, particularly if it's in the "Arts".

I was never a barista. When I wasn't rehabbing houses, I was pretty much doing shitty retail jobs ever since.

More than half of Americans have McJobs or ObamaJobs. Most of those are part time and/or close to minimum wage. For many people, those are "real jobs".

As I said... It must be nice to run in the circles you run in.



But hey... I've been hearing for years now how the unemployment rate has never been better.....


Yay.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I thought you had said you were some Barista type. Sorry for my recall error.

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