REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Fake news, propaganda, and censorship. NOW (2022) with a Ministry of Truth!

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Saturday, April 30, 2022 23:20
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Sunday, January 15, 2017 5:24 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


It looks like pointing out to 'G' what an obvious idiot he made of himself hit a nerve.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, January 15, 2017 6:31 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Ynet in Israel is reporting that Israeli intelligence officials are deciding not to share intelligence with the incoming Trump administration. The report indicates they came to this conclusion after a recent meeting with American intelligence officials, who told them the Russians have "leverages of pressure" to use against Trump.
www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4906642,00.html

This is an extraordinary story. If our intelligence community really believes this, then playtime is over.

Nothing in the behavior of officials like Director of National Intelligence James Clapper or FBI chief James Comey has offered any clarity to the situation. Both appear determined to keep taking the fork in the road all the way to inauguration.

No more Clapper-style hedging or waffling. If Israel gets to hear why the CIA thinks Trump is compromised, how is the American public not also so entitled?

But if all the CIA has are unverifiable rumors, they can't do this, not even to Donald Trump.

The only solution is an immediate unveiling of all the facts and an urgent public investigation. A half-assed whispering campaign a half week from a Trump presidency, with BuzzFeed at the center of the action, isn't going to cut it. We need to know what the likes of Clapper and Comey know, and we need it all now, before it's too late.

www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/the-russia-story-reaches-a-cris
is-point-w460806

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Sunday, January 15, 2017 6:33 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Oh, btw SECOND, do you know what 'yes, but ...' means? It means NO.

YOUR SOURCE is the weaselly 'yes but' variety. I would have disbelieved that story, but ...

YOU TOO are among the idiots that swallowed that shit.

So, just to remind you - you signed on to the fake news 'watersportsgate'.

I will keep reminding you, individually and plural, of that. You believed it because it was in the 'news' purveyed by 'reliable sources', and because you all suffer from a severe case of confirmation bias.

The fact that you all signed onto this demonstrates you're all EXTREMELY gullible, and make exactly zero effort to check what you read. You just react. And that makes you the perfect target of propaganda. And you all just demonstrated what perfect, willing, obedient little targets you are - not only signing on to propaganda, but endorsing it, spreading it, embellishing it, and defending it.

Quote:


kpo: Watersportsgate.
SECOND: ... http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/bbcs-paul-wood-there-are
-four-sources-possible-trump-russia-blackmail





How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, January 15, 2017 6:51 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
shit and claims and allegations and nonsense ...

and all the crap SECOND eats up with gusto. Like 'watersportsgate'.

You're such a tool, SECOND.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Sunday, January 15, 2017 10:18 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
and all the crap SECOND eats up with gusto. Like 'watersportsgate'.

You're such a tool, SECOND.

How about this "Fake News" (except it is not fake):

Peter Thiel, who spoke at Trump's nominating convention, is among a growing number of Californians in favor of a CalExit—California seceding from the union to form its own country, a move supported by Uber and Hyperloop co-founder Shervin Pishevar.

“I think it would be good for California, good for the rest of the country,” Thiel said in a recent New York Times interview.
www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/fashion/peter-thiel-confirm-or-deny.html

It would help Mr. Trump’s re-election campaign in 2020 if California became a separate country. It is the richest state, paying the most Federal Taxes and having the most electoral votes, 55, compared to Texas' 38 and New York's and Florida's 29. California voters were principally responsible for Hillary Clinton’s win of the national popular vote in the recent presidential election.

It’s unclear if Thiel has aligned himself with the “Yes California” movement, www.yescalifornia.org which is controversial because it’s led by Louis Marinelli—a New Yorker by birth currently living in Russia. Marinelli has spent considerable time championing the idea in Russia, where the government is supportive of nearly every separatist movement in the states, from Texas to Hawaii.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_J._Marinelli

“Yes California” wants to place an initiative on the 2018 ballot. Should that pass, a special election would be held in 2019. Voters would then have to pass a special referendum separating the Golden State from the rest of the US.

Impossible? Stranger things have happened in American politics. The Trump administration could really convince states to leave the USA. California wouldn't have to worry about Trump becoming the next Abraham Lincoln saving the Union because keeping California in the USA would not be to Trump's advantage in the next election.

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Monday, January 16, 2017 1:03 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


If California were to leave the US it could be 100 years before we saw a Democrat for president again. I don't think that is a good thing.

The idea that this could actually happen is laughable though. How could you start a country when you're already that far in debt?

I mean, financially it would be wonderful for the rest of the country, but I just don't see how this could ever happen.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, January 16, 2017 2:07 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


What I Learned From the Intelligence Report on "Russian Hacking" - The Corbett Report
https://www.bitchute.com/video/0ecxu7EStgs/

Eight men own half the world's wealth: Oxfam
http://www.france24.com/en/20170116-eight-men-own-half-worlds-wealth-o
xfam



Soros may die, but we will still be screwed, by his son.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f7c_1484506888

Clinton Foundation shuts down Clinton Global Initiative with FBI CF investigation looming?
https://vid.me/YrbB


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Monday, January 16, 2017 6:55 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
If California were to leave the US it could be 100 years before we saw a Democrat for president again. I don't think that is a good thing.

The idea that this could actually happen is laughable though. How could you start a country when you're already that far in debt?

I mean, financially it would be wonderful for the rest of the country, but I just don't see how this could ever happen.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

This sounds like "Fake News", but it is not.

You ask: "How would you start a country when you're already that far in debt?" That debt is NOT California's. It belongs to Trump's Federal Government. Trump won't be able to get California to pick up one 50th of the National Debt. California is not married to Trump. When California leaves the Union, it won't pay Donald's debts. Or alimony.

Also, leaving the Union might be an excellent opportunity for California to cheat anyone outside of the state who bought bonds inside the state. That would be a very Trump-like business move, if you remember his history as a real estate developer. California can learn from the Master how to get rich by declaring bankruptcy and not keeping your promises. If Trump doesn't like California cheating on him, he can sue it in what court? The UN? The Supreme Court? International Criminal Court?

I think Californians should sell their Federal Treasury Bonds before they vote to leave the Union because the USA will lose its credit rating if the succession vote wins. On the plus side for California, $292,563,574,000 in Federal Taxes a year will not be going to Trump for him to waste.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_tax_revenue_by_state

It all sounds like "Fake News", but enough Californians already now dislike Trump and the Republican Congress that he would be wise to not make that worse. But Wisdom is not one of Trump's attributes, is it?

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Monday, January 16, 2017 8:12 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
That debt is NOT California's. It belongs to Trump's Federal Government.




No... that's California's debt.

http://uscommonsense.org/research/unsustainable-california-the-top-10-
issues-facing-the-golden-state-wall-of-debt
/

All 443 Billion of it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, January 16, 2017 8:15 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Meanwhile... in Indiana.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2015/07/16/pence-indiana-surplus/30
238027
/

We're sitting on a nice 2.14 Billion in reserves.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, January 16, 2017 8:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You make these statements and half the time it's in reply for something someone else said and the other half it's just you making sh*t up again. If you have evidence of me being "snookered time and time again" please provide.


"Russian invasion"

"Russian war crimes"

Hillary's poll numbers.

"Grab her by the pussy"

Golden showers.

Quote:

BTW1 - so why are you and Kiki suddenly twinning on "recording for posterity?"
I just thought it was a great idea, so that you couldn't post-edit some of your more egregious errors.

Quote:

BTW2 - did you listen to the video finally? The one you posted that you said showed Trump didn't say, "grab them by the p*ssy" but in fact actually had him saying that?
That's not what I said, doofus. What I said was that it wasn't framed as an admission of what he did, it was an example of what women might let him do. I EVEN QUITED THAT PART OF THE TAPE, WORD FOR WORD.
Quote:

Except that's not what he said. What he said was "... and when you're a star THEY LET YOU DO IT."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=61303

So here is what he said, in context
Quote:

You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful. It's like a magnet, I just start kissing
btw, THAT is phrased as a description of past deeds, he basically says he kisses women without their consent. That would be considered sexual assault. But I don't hear anyone complaining about it, which is kind of strange.

Quote:

Just kiss, I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab em by the pussy. You can do anything
There I thinks he veers into the hypothetical ... "You can do anything [like] grab em by the pussy" At that point, what he grabbed was an example out of thin air. It might be something he did, or maybe it's just baseless bragging which- as you all have pointed out time and time again - is one of Trumps's weaknesses. I took it as braggadocio. Bragging about power that let's you do something like that to women is disgusting, even if he never did anything like that at all. It speaks to a weakness in character that Trump would want to be included in this group of sniggering 13-year-olds that he would sink to that level. But unlike We came, we saw, he died *laughter* it was not necessarily a description of past deeds.

Quote:

How do you expect anyone to listen to you about anything if you can't even get something that simple right?
INDEED.

Quote:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61303
'G' Just to remind you - you signed on to the fake news 'watersportsgate'. - KIKI

'Kiki' - just to remind - you make fake conclusions.- GSTRING

Dood, you were quoted. In context even. Do you want to be quoted again? Well then okie dokie! Here it is!

Quote:

So - show of hands: who thinks the president elect p*ssy grabber didn't get up to some naughty sh*t while being wined and dined in Russia? If that goofy elf from Entertainment Tonight can get him on tape anyone can. I bet it is epic stuff.= GSTRING




-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


"If you aren't aware, Texans don't have much concern for the well-being of Yankees or Californians, even Yankee factory workers in Indiana "- SECOND

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Monday, January 16, 2017 11:42 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61303

'G'

Just to remind you - you signed on to the fake news 'watersportsgate'.



'Kiki' - just to remind - you make fake conclusions.



You would think we could say we are astounded by 1kiki and SIG accusing others of being the purveyor of fake news. But no, its typical for them to accuse others of spreading or promoting fake information. Why, because that's fake as well ( false or untrue ), and we all know that's what they do best.



____________________________________________

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Monday, January 16, 2017 3:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
and all the crap SECOND eats up with gusto. Like 'watersportsgate'.

You're such a tool, SECOND.

Quote:

Originally posted by second:
How about this "Fake News" (except it is not fake):

Peter Thiel, etc.

You mean people's OPINIONS count as fact, SECOND? No wonder you're so confused!




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Monday, January 16, 2017 3:49 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
No... that's California's debt.

http://uscommonsense.org/research/unsustainable-california-the-top-10-
issues-facing-the-golden-state-wall-of-debt
/

All 443 Billion of it.

There's a lot that I can't unscramble because the authors were extremely obtuse (on purpose?) about their claims.
Quote:

The official Wall of Debt vastly understates the actual magnitude of the state’s debt. The actual wall is $443 billion. The complete wall builds upon the smaller official one and includes the following: retirement benefit debt, bond debt, deferred infrastructure maintenance, deferred payments, federal unemployment funds, and interfund borrowing.

The state has largely foregone infrastructure maintenance over the last half-decade, and as a result, California now requires an estimated $64.6 billion in maintenance costs to restore the quality of its infrastructure. Officially, the state’s unfunded public pension and retiree healthcare liabilities total $218.6 billion. Additionally, the state’s outstanding general obligation bonds ($81.1 billion), unissued bonds ($30 billion) and lease revenue bonds ($11.3 billion) total $122.4 billion.

That debt - is that current actual debt? Annual debt? Or potential debt estimated to occur over years and years, indefinitely into the future? My guess is the latter.

Meanwhile, California pays far more to the Federal government than is returned in Federal funds. Economically, California would save big time! as an independent country. And Indiana is getting more in Federal funds than it's paying in.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vby1dJlsXmM/VtkJnusdGXI/AAAAAAAAJqk/EQXnfNL
OqT0/s640/fed_spending_dollar.JPG







How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Monday, January 16, 2017 3:52 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
'Kiki' - just to remind - you make fake conclusions.

Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61303
'G'

Just to remind you - you signed on to the fake news 'watersportsgate'.

Despite the OBVIOUS ludicrousness of the story, despite the OBVIOUS problems with it that were discussed in the press, you fell all over yourself getting on board with fake news.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61303
Quote:

Originally posted by G:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-int
elligence.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

A good time line from NYT - it's a bit of a mess without a script!

So - show of hands: who thinks the president elect p*ssy grabber didn't get up to some naughty sh*t while being wined and dined in Russia? If that goofy elf from Entertainment Tonight can get him on tape anyone can. I bet it is epic stuff.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Saturday, March 11, 2017 4:18 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


http://www.salon.com/2017/03/04/donald-trump-and-the-media-can-journal
ism-escape-this-deadly-paradox-and-get-its-groove-back
/

Donald Trump and the media: Can journalism escape this deadly paradox and get its groove back?

Faced with the presidency of a master media manipulator unlike anyone else in political history, what can the media do to counteract his dark magic? I’m not a big fan of self-congratulatory essays about the importance of journalism, but this is a central question in the current crisis of democracy.

If Donald Trump has accomplished nothing else in his first six weeks in the White House, he has galvanized the latent oppositional tendency within the mainstream media. The New York Times has repeatedly denounced Trump in front-page headlines for telling lies, breaking a long-standing precedent. Washington Post reporters continue to break news about the lengthening list of Trump associates who apparently had contact with Russian officials during the 2016 campaign, a murky scandal that will continue to unfold as long as Trump is president.

Even network news reporters and anchors, schooled from their earliest days on the job to adopt a bland, breezy, pseudo-analytical neutrality, have notably moved toward a more confrontational mode.

This is without question a big improvement on the way Trump played the press like a Stradivarius during the presidential campaign, and media coverage of the Russia scandal is unmistakably making him unhappy.

(But) Since we’re on that topic, I would encourage both the media and the public to learn from recent mistakes and acknowledge the immense extent of what we don’t know and can’t see. It seems entirely conceivable, for instance, that there was some degree of collusion between the Trump campaign or the Republican Party and Russian hackers. It also seems conceivable that the CIA or other “deep state” operatives are now trying to destabilize Trump’s wobbly regime for their own reasons. Both things could easily be true.

...

But as Thomas B. Edsall recently observed in an essential New York Times column, social media and the Internet have radically destabilized the norms and practices that have governed American politics for at least the last 60 or 70 years: “They have disrupted and destroyed institutional constraints on what can be said, when and where it can be said and who can say it.” ... in terms of Trump and the media, the most important consequence is that the mainstream media’s power to define truth, and to set the limits of acceptable political discourse, has been largely destroyed.

If the Times or the Post (or Salon) reported tomorrow that Donald Trump was deeply in debt to shadowy Russian billionaires and had received direct instructions from Kremlin spymasters, how many of his supporters would notice, believe it or care? Of course I believe such a story would be worth reporting, and of course I believe (or at least hope) that the vestigial machinery of democracy would be forced to respond.

But honestly, who knows? In a universe ... (where) millions of people who were not obviously suffering from severe mental illness took the Pizzagate “scandal” seriously, the difference between news and fake news comes to seem like a matter of taste or opinion.

My point is that as a general tendency, the institution of journalism set the stage for its own failure in 2016 ... There is no doubt that the mass media has lost most of its once-monolithic power over information, and I would suggest it has tried to adjust to this new reality in the worst possible way, by anointing itself as a priesthood of enlightened opinion and received wisdom, which turned out to be worth less than the bandwidth it used up.

If the news wasn’t fake, exactly, the institution charged with reporting and delivering it was definitely full of crap in a big way. It’s not at all clear how the media climbs out of the Heffalump Trap it dug for itself and then fell into, or how best it can fight back against Trump’s masterful milking of his supporters’ incoherent anger and resentment.

I posted these selected quotes to point out that I agree that the media has dug itself into a hole.

But I disagree strenuously that the problem is that the media has lost its power and credibility AS AN OPPOSITION TO TRUMP.

The media needs to apply the same standards to ALL people, ALL parties, ALL policies, and ALL events. It lost its credibility by being a willing toady to the existing powers, by parroting pronouncements and proclamations, by hiding the things they were not supposed to reveal - in short, by being the purveyors of propaganda. The media can't suddenly regain its standing by being truthful about Trump - and only Trump. That's an obvious dodge that only the most partisan will see through. It needs to tell the truth about Hillary, about democrats, about republicans, about the government and especially the spy agencies, about foreign policy, about US foreign involvement, about the economy ... in short, about everything. Only when it goes that will people begin to accept it again as a source of information.






How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Saturday, March 11, 2017 4:19 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



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Saturday, March 11, 2017 4:35 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Troll.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Saturday, March 11, 2017 4:53 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Troll.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?



dreamtrove

---------------------


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Saturday, March 11, 2017 5:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Anything about REAL. WORLD. EVENTS. to discuss?




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Saturday, March 11, 2017 7:38 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Troll.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?



dreamtrove

---------------------



lol. why? I wasn't ever here.

some day you can read over these threads and your own posts and see that i wasn't a troll.
Eta: I just double checked. I was so not on this thread, anywhere, until now.

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Monday, July 17, 2017 9:35 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


I am willing to say there might be some truth to the conspiracy of elite globalists, an illuminati so to speak or a secret society of internationalists wanting to change America, Europe, Asia the world into one government, one currency...I'm not sure how real the conspiracy is but many alt-news blogs on the left and right did talk about it

Its not just David Icke, Alex Jones ro piratenews level stuff

People have ranted about this since the 50s and 1960s

Although I'm not sure how true


One example Myron Fagan, a speech 1967 ALL About Illuminati, Zionism, Masonry, Skull & Bones, The CFR etc People used to share this stuff on vinyl tape and other recorder devices, the interent made conspiracy like this go viral



but once again I'm not sure how true this could be?


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Monday, July 5, 2021 1:40 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Trump's former top aide launches GETTR, a new pro-Trumpish social media platform? Team Launches Twitter-like Social Media Platform Called 'Gettr'

Social Media App Launched By Trump Adviser Was Hacked On Its Launch Day
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/gettr-social-media-platform-trump-a
dviser-hacked


'He's a fake news humpty dumpty': Sean Hannity hits back at Brian Stelter after the CNN host accused his Fox News rival of 'spouting poison'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9736143/Sean-Hannity-brands-B
rian-Stelter-humpty-dumpty-CNN-host-accused-spouting-poison.html


'Editing out fake news'
https://techxplore.com/news/2021-06-fake-news.html

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Tuesday, August 10, 2021 5:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.




Quote:

After Russiagate, Why WOULDN’T People Be Skeptical About Covid?

You hardly ever hear about Russiagate anymore. ...

Looking at mainstream news outlets in 2021, you’d hardly know they’d recently spent years hammering the (Russiagate) story into public consciousness that Vladimir Putin had infiltrated the highest levels of the US government, day after day after day after day after day.

But they did. Vast fortunes were raked in off the public interest generated by click-friendly stories about the latest BOMBSHELL revelation involving some peripheral member of Trump’s associates perhaps maybe having some kind of contact with a Russian national at some point. Entire careers were built on this.

Then the Mueller investigation invalidated the entire claim by failing to indict a single American for conspiring with the Russian government, and the mass media who’d spent the previous few years bashing everyone in the face with that story just kind of slowly sidled away from it.

And now they act like it never happened.

Now I'm going to ask you to put yourself in the shoes of someone you might not normally be inclined to.

Imagine you’re someone on the political right watching this whole thing unfold. Imagine that from late 2016 to mid-2019 you were watching the mass media aggressively shove this story down everyone’s throat that a US president, whom you support, is secretly working for a hostile foreign government with the goal of subverting the United States of America. The media you consume have been highlighting all the massive, glaring plot holes in this narrative the entire time, so you know it’s not true, yet you’ve still got friends, coworkers and family members who believe it is.

Can you imagine how disgusted you’d get with the media watching this happen day after day? How outraged? How resentful? If you’re really putting yourself there, I think you probably can.

Now imagine a year later these exact same media institutions start telling you there’s a novel coronavirus which we’re all going to have to sacrifice some personal liberties in order to stop. We might have to stay in our homes, wear a mask, get injected with new drugs we’re not sure about, possibly while watching our bank account drain and our business go under, and all these media institutions you just watched lie to everyone’s face for years on end are aggressively saying you need to do this and support this or you’re a dangerous monster whose voice should be banned from social media.

How well do you imagine that would go over with you?

https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/08/04/after-russiagate-why-wouldnt-p
eople-be-skeptical-about-covid/#comment-68414




That's not a particularity interesting question to me. Anyone who looks for evidence before accepting a story understood that Russiagate was just as empty as Iraq's WMDs. And besides, why WOULD you believe anything the media tells you without evidence? There's no reason to at all. Without evidence, claims are clearly propaganda.

But evidence is exactly what distinguishes Iraq's WMDs and Russiagate from COVID-19. There's evidence about COVID-19 not just from the US government ... and the US medical system ... and US academia ... and US individuals ... and the western m$m ...

... but also from official news media sources from around the globe ... international organizations ... foreign academics ... and foreign institutions ...

... all accessible via the internet.

Unless you imagine the ENTIRE PLANET IS COOPERATING TOGETHER WITHOUT EXCEPTION IN SOME VAST GLOBAL CONSPIRACY, AND THAT EVERY SINGLE THING YOU SEE IS FAKED ... the evidence for COVID-19 is abundant.

Now, that doesn't mean that fact-based contrary research isn't being hidden. Or that the m$m and social media aren't suppressing contrary POVs. Or that governments and their media servants aren't spinning narratives around the facts as quickly as possible to herd people in a preferred direction, because: "You never let a serious crisis go to waste."

But the answer is not to live in oppositeland.

Because as long as you seek out global (for most of us, non-western) sources, keep your emotions in perspective, and demand evidence for any claim, you'll be fairly immune to anybody's propaganda about anything. You may not be able to easily find the truth. But you won't be bamboozled by lies.

Internet (and other media) censorship
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=63198&p=1
Censorship
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64415&p=1
UK's MI6 and Defence: Author of provocations and propaganda
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64420&p=1
Financial news: Propaganda, American-style
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64368&p=1
Internet (and other media) censorship
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=63198&p=1
Can social media censor content? Google does it. So does FB and Twitter
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62660&p=1

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Wednesday, August 11, 2021 3:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.






We Research Misinformation on Facebook. It Just Disabled Our Accounts.
Aug. 10, 2021


By Laura Edelson and Damon McCoy

Ms. Edelson is a Ph.D. candidate in computer science at N.Y.U.’s Tandon School of Engineering, where Dr. McCoy is an associate professor of computer science and engineering. They are affiliated with the nonpartisan research group Cybersecurity for Democracy.

We learned last week that Facebook had disabled our Facebook accounts and our access to data that we have been using to study how misinformation spreads on the company’s platform.

We were informed of this in an automated email. In a statement, Facebook says we used “unauthorized means to access and collect data” and that it shut us out to comply with an order from the Federal Trade Commission to respect the privacy of its users.

This is deeply misleading. We collect identifying information only about Facebook’s advertisers. We believe that Facebook is using privacy as a pretext to squelch research that it considers inconvenient. Notably, the acting director of the F.T.C.’s consumer protection bureau told Facebook last week that the “insinuation” that the agency’s order required the disabling of our accounts was “inaccurate.”

“The F.T.C. is committed to protecting the privacy of people, and efforts to shield targeted advertising practices from scrutiny run counter to that mission,” the acting director, Samuel Levine, wrote to Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook’s founder and chief executive.

Our team at N.Y.U.’s Center for Cybersecurity has been studying Facebook’s platform for three years. Last year, we deployed a browser extension we developed called Ad Observer that allows users to voluntarily share information with us about ads that Facebook shows them. It is this tool that has raised the ire of Facebook and that it pointed to when it disabled our accounts.

In the course of our overall research, we’ve been able to demonstrate that extreme, unreliable news sources get more “engagement” — that is, user interaction — on Facebook, at the expense of accurate posts and reporting. What’s more, our work shows that the archive of political ads that Facebook makes available to researchers is missing more than 100,000 ads.

There is still a lot of important research we want to do. When Facebook shut down our accounts, we had just begun studies intended to determine whether the platform is contributing to vaccine hesitancy and sowing distrust in elections. We were also trying to figure out what role the platform may have played leading up to the Capitol assault on Jan. 6.

We are privacy and cybersecurity researchers whose careers are built on protecting users. That’s why we’ve been so careful to make sure that our Ad Observer tool collects only limited and anonymous information from the users who agreed to participate in our research. And it is also why we made the tool’s source code public so that Facebook and others can verify that it does what we say it does.

We strongly believe we are not violating Facebook’s terms of service, as the company contends. But even if we had been, Facebook could have authorized our research. As Facebook declared in announcing the disabling of our accounts, “We’ll continue to provide ways for responsible researchers to conduct studies that are in the public interest while protecting the security of our platform and the privacy of people who use it.”

Our research is responsible and in the public interest. We’ve protected the privacy of our volunteers. Essentially, our ad tool collects the ads our volunteers see on their Facebook accounts, plus information provided by Facebook about when and why they were shown the ads and who paid for them. These ads are seen by the specific audience the advertiser targets.

This tool provides a way to see what entities are trying to influence the public, and how they’re doing it. We think that’s important to democracy. Yet Facebook has denied us important access to continue to do much of our work.

One of the odd things about this dispute is that while Facebook has barred us from research tools available to users and other academic researchers, it has not blocked our Ad Observer browser either by technical or legal means. It is still operational, and we are still collecting data from volunteers.

Still, by shutting us off from its own research tools, Facebook is making our work harder. This is unfortunate. Facebook isn’t protecting privacy. It’s not even protecting its advertisers. It’s protecting itself from scrutiny and accountability.

The company suggests the Ad Observer is unnecessary, that researchers can study its platform with tools the company provides. But the data Facebook makes available is woefully inadequate, as the gaps we’ve found in its political ad archive prove. If we were to rely on Facebook, we simply could not study the spread of misinformation on topics ranging from elections to the Capitol riot to Covid-19 vaccines.

By blocking us from its platform, Facebook sent us a message: It wants to stop us from examining how it operates.

We have a message for Facebook: The public deserves more transparency about the systems the company uses to sell the public’s attention to advertisers and the algorithms it employs to promote content. We will keep working to ensure the public gets that transparency.

Laura Edelson is a Ph.D. candidate in computer science at New York University’s Tandon School of Engineering, where Damon McCoy is an associate professor of computer science and engineering. They are affiliated with the nonpartisan research group Cybersecurity for Democracy.


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Saturday, April 30, 2022 1:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I know that it's been mentioned in various threads, but I think that Biden's* Ministry of Truth demands its own thread. So, here it is.

Quote:

Who Is Nina Jankowicz? Head of Joe Biden's Disinformation Governance Board

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/who-is-nina-jankowicz-head-of-joe
-bidens-disinformation-governance-board/ar-AAWGYT5


I could provide horrifying example after horrifying example of Jankowicz (If this is Polish it's pronounced YANK-o-wich) spreading disinformation and censoring truth, but I'm running late, so please feel free to add.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Saturday, April 30, 2022 2:01 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


BTW, don't expect Elon Musk to save you from Big Bad Tech and grant you Free Speech. The uber-wealthy don't act in our interest, they act in theirs. I'm sure he'll turn Twitter into a revenue stream by doing what google does: scraping your ID and selling your info to advertisers, and requiring a monthly subscription for "free speech".

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Saturday, April 30, 2022 2:52 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

FBI disagrees with CIA on Russian influence in the presidential election

The FBI did not corroborate the CIA’s claim that Russia had a hand in the election of President-elect Donald Trump in a meeting with lawmakers last week.

A senior FBI counterintelligence official met with Republican and Democrat members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence in order to give the bureau’s view of a recent CIA report. The official did not concur with the CIA, frustrating Democrats. ... The different conclusions reached by the two intelligence agencies is a reflection of their different institutional styles. CIA officials often use past behavior and analysis based on gathered intelligence to advise leaders, whereas the FBI comes from a more legalistic background which relies on hard evidence to make a case.


http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/12/12/fbi-disagrees-cia-russian-influ
ence-presidential-election-422763


Because who needs evidence when simple accusation will do?

I see a fight shaping up between the DIA and FBI on the one hand, and the CIA on the other.

So much to unpack:

1. At least your source bizpac, is upfront about their bias:

"Conservative News You Can Trust
Based in Palm Beach County, BizPac Review is a privately held, for-profit news and opinion website covering news that matters to conservatives throughout Florida and the United States."

2. This statement: "FBI disagrees with CIA on Russian influence in the presidential election" Disagrees how? Did bizpac say what specifically they disagreed on? No - they teased they would, but fishtailed away from being specific, only citing: "The different conclusions reached by the two intelligence agencies is a reflection of their different institutional styles." Ok, they're different entities so it's normal they would have different styles. On other words - BS article.

3. The money shot from the article only fizzles: "The official did not concur with the CIA, frustrating Democrats..."
Not no concur could mean ANYTHING. Did not think 1% was correct? It's wide open - again, a BS article.

4. Gathered Intelligence versus hard evidence? They're not the same? BS.

5. It is widely known that for many many years those 2 agencies have not played well together. That's messed up, but it explains why these 2 aren't slurping each other's work.

6. "The FBI did not corroborate the CIA’s claim that Russia had a hand in the election of President-elect Donald Trump in a meeting with lawmakers last week." Define: "had a hand in the election of President-elect Donald Trump." I'd like to see what the FBI thought had happened. Do they think there were no Russian hacks of the DNC or connection to Wikileaks? I really need to see a reputable source say that with facts to back it up before I would believe it.

7. It's easy to say Russia is being used by main stream media to sell papers/ads, but that would be true either way, so that proves nothing.

8. You have to ask: isn't it logical that Russia would want to influence our election? Of course.

9. Why would the CIA break a false story now? How would that change anything? What do they have to gain?

10. SIGNYM: "Because who needs evidence when simple accusation will do?"

OR, what you do:

"Because who needs evidence when Fake News will do?"

I see our Russian troll is still at it. With her it's spin, spin, spin.
____________________________________________

From the early posts of this thread. Excellent example of why pizmobeach keeps deleting his hilariously inept posts and viewpoints.
Now in the full light of how inept his lies were, nice to see it laid out how he always supports disinformation and Fake News.

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Saturday, April 30, 2022 3:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I know that it's been mentioned in various threads, but I think that Biden's* Ministry of Truth demands its own thread. So, here it is.
Quote:

Who Is Nina Jankowicz? Head of Joe Biden's Disinformation Governance Board

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/who-is-nina-jankowicz-head-of-joe
-bidens-disinformation-governance-board/ar-AAWGYT5


I could provide horrifying example after horrifying example of Jankowicz (If this is Polish it's pronounced YANK-o-wich) spreading disinformation and censoring truth, but I'm running late, so please feel free to add.

That is hilarious.
In a redirected thread about Lord Darth's new Fake News Propaganda Machine, you cite as source the most robust Fake News Generator in the world.
Not even sure if you did that on purpose.

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Saturday, April 30, 2022 3:23 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Ynet in Israel is reporting that Israeli intelligence officials are deciding not to share intelligence with the incoming Trump administration. The report indicates they came to this conclusion after a recent meeting with American intelligence officials, who told them the Russians have "leverages of pressure" to use against Trump.
www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4906642,00.html

This is an extraordinary story. If our intelligence community really believes this, then playtime is over.

Nothing in the behavior of officials like Director of National Intelligence James Clapper or FBI chief James Comey has offered any clarity to the situation. Both appear determined to keep taking the fork in the road all the way to inauguration.

No more Clapper-style hedging or waffling. If Israel gets to hear why the CIA thinks Trump is compromised, how is the American public not also so entitled?

But if all the CIA has are unverifiable rumors, they can't do this, not even to Donald Trump.

The only solution is an immediate unveiling of all the facts and an urgent public investigation. A half-assed whispering campaign a half week from a Trump presidency, with BuzzFeed at the center of the action, isn't going to cut it. We need to know what the likes of Clapper and Comey know, and we need it all now, before it's too late.

www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/the-russia-story-reaches-a-cris
is-point-w460806

Golly. Actually referring to Master Traitors Clapper and Comey in the midst of their perpetrating crimes.
Good example of how gullible secondbot always has been.

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Saturday, April 30, 2022 3:27 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


To JSF: Yes, I did that on purpose


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Saturday, April 30, 2022 5:32 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Tucker Carlson, on the Ministry of Truth



Sadly, while you may be ignoring Biden*, he's* not ignoring you.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Saturday, April 30, 2022 5:47 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Authored by Caitlin Johnstone via Medium.com,

Rightists have spent the last couple of days freaking out and invoking Orwell’s 1984 in response to something their political enemies are doing in America, and for once it’s for a pretty good reason.

The Department of Homeland Security has secretly set up a “Disinformation Governance Board”, only informing the public about its plans for the institution after it had already been established.

The disinformation board, which critics have understandably been calling a “Ministry of Truth”, purportedly exists to fight disinformation coming out of Russia as well as misleading messages about the US-Mexico border. We may be certain that the emphasis in the board’s establishment has been on the Russia angle, however.

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki, in her patented “You’re such a crazy idiot for questioning me about the White House” manner, dismissed alarmed questions about what specific functions this strange new DHS entity was going to be performing and what its authority will look like.

“It sounds like the objective of the board is to prevent disinformation and misinformation from traveling around the country in a range of communities,” Psaki said.

“I’m not sure who opposes that effort.”

PSAKI: "It sounds like the objective of the board is to prevent disinformation and misinformation from traveling around the country in a range of communities. I'm not sure who opposes that effort." pic.twitter.com/Z4xOv46RLT
— Townhall.com (@townhallcom) April 28, 2022

The answer to the question of “who opposes that effort” is of course “anyone with functioning gray matter between their ears.” No government entity has any business appointing itself the authority to sort information from disinformation on behalf of the public, because government entities are not impartial and omniscient deities who can be entrusted to serve the public as objective arbiters of absolute reality. They would with absolute certainty wind up drawing distinctions between information, misinformation and disinformation in whatever way serves their interests, regardless of what’s true, exactly as any authoritarian regime would do.

I mean, is anyone honestly more afraid of Russian disinformation than they are of their own government appointing itself the authority to decide what counts as disinformation?

This important point has gotten a bit lost in the shuffle due to the utterly hypnotic ridiculousness of the person who has been appointed to run the Disinformation Governance Board. Nina Jankowicz, a carefully groomed swamp creature who has worked in Kyiv as a communications advisor to the Ukrainian government as part of a Fulbright fellowship, is being widely criticized by pundits and social media users for her virulent Russiagating and whatever the hell this is:

You can just call me the Mary Poppins of disinformation ??????? https://t.co/eGV9lpctYn pic.twitter.com/WVQFA2bPmq
— Nina Jankowicz ???????? (@wiczipedia) February 17, 2021

Because of this person’s embarrassing cartoonishness, a lot more commentary lately has been going into discussing the fact that the Department of Homeland Security’s Ministry of Truth is run by a kooky liberal than the fact that the Department of Homeland Security has a fucking Ministry of Truth.

Which is really to miss the forest for the trees, in my opinion. Would it really be any better if the “Disinformation Governance Board” was run by a chill dude you wouldn’t mind having a beer with? Especially when we know the ideological leanings of this department are going to bounce back and forth between elections and will always act in service of US empire narrative control regardless of who is in office? I don’t think so.

The real issue at hand is the fact that this new institution will almost certainly play a role in bridging the ever-narrowing gap between government censorship and Silicon Valley censorship. The creation of the DHS disinformation board is a far more shocking and frightening development than last year’s scandalous revelation that the White House was advising social media platforms about accounts it determined were circulating censorship-worthy Covid misinformation, which was itself a drastic leap in the direction toward direct government censorship from what had previously been considered normal.

White House fact-sheet says part of the mammoth $33 billion spending package it's requesting for Ukraine will be to "support independent media." Because nothing screams "independent" like being directly funded by the US Government as part of its "information warfare" initiative pic.twitter.com/O3JshV1Mg9
— Michael Tracey (@mtracey) April 28, 2022

We should probably talk more about how as soon as people accepted that it was fine for government, media and Silicon Valley institutions to work together to censor misinformation and rally public support around an Official Narrative about a virus, the ruling power establishment immediately took that as license to do that with a war and a foreign government as well.

Like, immediately immediately. We went from a massive narrative control campaign about a virus, which people accepted because they wanted to contain a deadly pandemic, straight into a massive narrative control campaign about Russia and Ukraine. Without skipping a beat. Like openly manipulating everyone’s understanding of world events is just what we do now. Now we’re seeing increasingly brazen censorship of political dissent about a fucking war that could easily end up getting us all killed in a nuclear holocaust, and a portion of the Biden administration’s whopping $33 billion Ukraine package is going toward funding “independent media” (read: war propaganda).

We should probably talk more about this. We should probably talk more about how insane it is that all mainstream western institutions immediately accepted it as a given that World War II levels of censorship and propaganda must be implemented over a faraway war that our governments are not even officially a part of.

It started as soon as Russia invaded Ukraine, without any public discussion whatsoever. Like the groundwork had already been laid and everyone had already agreed that that’s what would happen. The public had no say in whether we want to be propagandized and censored to help the US win some kind of weird infowar to ensure its continued unipolar domination of the planet. It just happened.

No reason was given to the public as to why this must occur, and there was no public debate as to whether it should. This was by design, because propaganda only works when you don’t know it’s happening to you.

The choice was made for us that information is too important to be left in the hands of the people. It became set in stone that we are to be a propaganda-based society rather than a truth-based society. No discussion was offered, and no debate was allowed.

In the middle of an election campaign, Defence Minister Peter Dutton tells Australians to "prepare for war". He compared China with Nazi Germany in the 1930s. Australia has no enemies, none, zero. But it speaks for its master in Washington. Read on: https://t.co/dSRhu5b23i
— John Pilger (@johnpilger) April 25, 2022

And as bad as it is, it’s on track to get much, much worse. They’re already setting up “disinformation” regulation in the government which presides over Silicon Valley, the proxy war between the US and Ukraine is escalating by the day, and aggressions are ramping up against China over both the Solomon Islands and Taiwan. If you think imperial narrative management is intense now, wait until the US empire’s struggle to secure global hegemony really gets going.

Do you consent to this? Do you? It’s something you kind of have to take a position on, because its implications have a direct effect on our lives as individuals and on our trajectory as a society. How much are we willing to sacrifice to help the US win an infowar against Russia?

The question of whether we should abandon all hope of ever becoming a truth-based society and committing instead to winning propaganda wars for a globe-spanning empire is perhaps the most consequential decision we’ve ever had to make as a species. Which is why we weren’t given a choice. It’s just been foisted upon us.

Whoever controls the narrative controls the world. By taking our control of information out of our hands without asking our permission and determining for us that we are to be a propaganda-based civilization for the foreseeable future, they have stolen something sacred from us. Something they had no right to take.

Nothing about the state of the world tells us that the people who run things are doing a good job. Nothing about our current situation suggests they should be given more control, rather than having control taken away from them and given to the people. We are going in exactly the wrong direction.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Saturday, April 30, 2022 7:50 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


This thread seems to have 83 posts before this, while the post count shows 104.


I wonder if this Ministry of Truth was part of the master plan all along. With the 2-year reign of Lord Darth Obiden, followed by the 10-year Reign of the next Libtard, enabled via the perma-Lockdowns and Election Thefts every 4 years.
Or maybe this Ministry of Truth just fell into their laps.

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Saturday, April 30, 2022 8:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


"Sadly, while you may be ignoring Biden*, he's* not ignoring you."


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Saturday, April 30, 2022 8:59 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Joe Biden* can't keep track of Joe Biden*.

It was never him that I was worried about.

--------------------------------------------------

Me: "Remember Covid?"

Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"

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Saturday, April 30, 2022 11:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I put an asterisk after Biden's* name bc Biden* isn't in charge. He's a meat puppet, so when I refer to him* I'm using shorthand for the collective that is managing him.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Saturday, April 30, 2022 11:20 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
I put an asterisk after Biden's* name bc Biden* isn't in charge. He's a meat puppet, so when I refer to him* I'm using shorthand for the collective that is managing him.



Interesting.

We've both been doing this whole time for different reasons.

I like yours too. It's certainly more "current event" than mine.



--------------------------------------------------

Me: "Remember Covid?"

Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"

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