REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Koolest prezident EVAR!

POSTED BY: JO753
UPDATED: Monday, May 16, 2016 22:03
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Wednesday, January 27, 2016 1:56 AM

OONJERAH



By any chance, did Obama sign away my right to due process 2 or 3 years ago?

(Asking as a political illiterate.)



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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Wednesday, January 27, 2016 4:59 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


YOU ARE RIGHT! Presidents, Congress do not actually represent the people. They do, however, react and respond to the moneyed individuals who have certain interests that benefits themselves.

It is an ongoing problem and a good part of why the people have become so frustrated with government. They no longer represent the everyday hardworking American, but the very rich who wish nothing but to control
our very existence, so much so, that they are willing to dispose of us any
way they can for their selfish gains. It is the reason why Bernie and Trump,
on both sides of the spectrum, have been so popular. Of course, it's more complicated than that, but there it is.

I have come to know that the system has been rigged for quite some time, and I, as well as millions who believed, thought that maybe it would change
with Obama. IT HAS NOT! That gray hair reveals a lot more than the stresses
of the job. I also saw that 'look' of utter frustration on Bush's face when
he was given the news about 9/11; like "Oh shit, this is real." It does us no good to place the blame all on one man. Congress too bares a part in all of this...........it is a system.

Just so you know, I do care about The Constitution and what it stands for. It seems to me that the only people that care at all are the 'real' Americans. I'm not talking about the gung-ho gun-toting loudmouths, but the
everyday hardworking type. The ones that work hard, pay their bills, tuck in their children at night, and shake their head whenever some fool gets up on a soapbox and lies through their teeth. I know that you are not prejudice, neither am I. I know the truth is out there, but I was hoping against hope that this time, this time it was different.

For example: The good people of Texas, whom I almost gave up on, showed me something the other day. It seems that the state DA, a republican, investigated Planned Parenthood and presented the case to a Grand Jury. At issue, the highly publicized case regarding the selling of body parts from fetuses (right off I knew this was a set up by right wing conservatives).
The evidence showed, and the Grand Jury agreed, that PP was innocent of the accusations. Furthermore, the DA and the GJ agreed that the wrongdoing was
from the accusing organization - they were charged with the very crime they
accused PP of, namely the buying and selling of body parts. JUSTICE, with a capital J.

Of course, we have not heard a word from right wing conservative presidential candidates, just more rhetoric. Unbe-fucking-lievable!
But, ultimately, when left up to the people, the truth comes out.

There's hope for us yet. Now, if only we could go back to doing that in
both houses. By the way, I believe the Constitution is in need of some Amendments......that document was written in a wholly different time.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Yeah, you're right The Constitution doesn't mean much to any red-blooded American anymore.........what with Cowboy Clive doing his thing out there
in the boonies of Hillbilly Nevada or some such.

Well, so far YOU don't seem to interested in defending it against clear violations.

Quote:

But we're talking about Obama aren't we.

SGG, I've been squawking about the spying since NIXON started using the FBI to infiltrate protest organizations!

Were you not here when I brought up - over and over- the revelation by AT&T technician Mark Klein that BUSH had started splicing into the AT&T lines at their San Francisco exchange? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

For my pains, I was treated like some sort of woo-woo leftwing conspiracy nutjob who was making to much of nothing!

This isn't about OBAMA, and that you keep reacting as if I'm targeting OBAMA specifically (Because he's half-black? Because he's a Democrat?) is frustrating beyond belief. Try removing the individual from the argument. I'd be making the same criticisms whether Obama was purple or green or Republican or Peace&Freedom. Violating the Constitution is violating the Constitution, no matter who's doing it.

Quote:

So, you think that Snowden is a hero? One question: If he's such a hero, then why did he run?
You're kidding, right?

Quote:

Why did he blow the whistle? What was his motive? Actually, I could investigate that
He blew the whistle - LIKE SO MANY OTHERS- because he was participating in an activity that was frankly unconstitutional. He lost a LOT because of it. But, yeah- go ahead and "investigate" it. While you're at it, why don't you investigate what he revealed as well?

Did you hear about the 50 or so DIA analysts who blew the whistle on the fact that their reports on our anti-ISIL strategy were being re-written into happy-talk for political purposes? No, of course not.

There are a lot of whistleblowers out there, blowing whistles. Maybe you should listen to them.

Quote:

He stole a shitload of documents, that much I know. Claims Americans, innocent Americans were spied on...........Hmmmmmm, where did I hear that before?
Lots of places. Possibly even here, from me, about GWB. The fact that you heard about other instances of surveillance instigated by other Presidents doesn't make Obama's violations any less true, or any less important. Stop trying to make exceptions for Obama. It's beneath you, or it should be. Apply the same rigorous standards that you would apply to Bush or any other President. Insert "BUSH" everywhere you hear about a criticism of Obama, and if you find certain actions would be heinous under Bush, then they should be equally heinous under Obama. Isn't that so?

Quote:

Again, I digress. This is about Obama and his secrets which, of course, no other president before him has had.
Yeah, thanks for mis-stating what I said.

I'm an equal-opportunity accuser. Do you want me to start linking the many, many criticisms of BUSH that I made here? Why would you distort my viewpoints that way? Because what I've said has been very clear, and not at all muted.

By the way, you will see, if you bother to look, that I gave OBAMA a VERY wide margin when he was first elected. Despite his lack of record, I voted for him on the basis that I already knew what Hillary was about (neocon) and that if Obama only managed to keep 15% of his many promises, he wouldn't be doing too badly.

I defended him against the rightwing "birther" nutjobs who were claiming that he was a Kenyan Muslim socialist. As if! I didn't start to have SUBSTANTIVE criticisms until about three years into his first term, when he had proven himself to be both a corporate shill and a serial Constitutional transgressor.


Quote:

Then Congress should impeach him, shouldn't they?
Yes, they should. Bush too.

YOU HAVE TO WONDER, or at least you might want to wonder, what the POINT of all of this surveillance is. What was it meant to accomplish? Did it actually catch any terrorists, prevent any terrorist acts?

ER... no.

Quote:

They have control of both houses don't they? Oh, what evil lurks in the heart of the "colorful" president born in Kenya.
Oh my fucking god. Why do you keep turning this into some sort of reaction to rightwing nutjobs?

Quote:

By the way, have you ever heard of the Patriot Act? Just asking!
yes, I've heard of the Patriot Act. It's unconstitutional. Just in case you've forgotten what we're talking about, here is the part in the Constitution about search and seizure. It's pretty plain what the Founding Fathers had in mind when they wrote it, it's very short, and worth a thoughtful read on your part:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Quote:

Gee, how clever of Obama to do that way back in 2001.
And I have faulted BUSH, over and over, and over and over about torture, about the Patriot Act, about using 9-11 and cooked intelligence to lead us into pointless wars that destabilized the entire mideast, about mass surveillance.

Just because Obama does the same thing, does that make it better?


Whenever somebody criticizes OBAMA, liberals (such as yourself?) reply with "But BUSH...!" We've had two miscreants in the WH in a row. One Democrat, one Republican. Neither one of them has represented the interests of the American people. Both have violated the Constitution. The fact that Obama is half-black is irrelevant to his misdeeds, or at least it should be, if you're trying to judge equally.

And just wait till the rest of the shit comes out. Both Presidents- very, very dirty.


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.


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Wednesday, January 27, 2016 6:57 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You're assuming that you're dealing with ethical people.



No.

I can imajin all sorts uv situationz that woud overide the plain facts.

Wun uv the mistakes most peepl make wen jujing the actionz uv otherz iz to assume there wuz a good choice. Very often there are only bad wunz or only 1.

Quote:

I doubt there is anything that could be revealed that would make me relax my position.


Alienz or Godz/Devilz actually running the world.

Info about the future.

Real jeniusez or supercomputerz taking ALL available info and showing alternativ actionz and outkumz over a long time line.

Then therez the bland ordinary explanationz that still turn a strong manz hair gray in a few yirz.

Quote:

Yu want too noh how Iy noh?


'nohing' iz a word to uze sparingly, no matter how you spell it.

Quote:

Because if they had a GOOD REASON for their strategy, they could have explained it to me already.


Unless the truth iz so terribl that anybody who noz it wish they didnt.


Quote:

But I agree that there is probably stuff we won't know until later (if ever) that will make me think that both Bush and Obama were even bigger dicks than I thought.


Sertainly possible.

Quote:

For a guy who believes in being logical, you kind of turn it off when evaluating your "betters".


Funny. I usually get pegged az an arrogant megalomaniac.

Quote:

A pretty good example of people diving into the social structure and not thinking individually.


Me? The Nooalf guy? The guy who gets ridiculed by Townhall and Daily Kos, Sientists and Priests, Skeptics and Bleevrz?


----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Wednesday, January 27, 2016 10:52 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You're assuming that you're dealing with ethical people.- SIGNY

No. I can imajin all sorts uv situationz that woud overide the plain facts. Wun uv the mistakes most peepl make wen jujing the actionz uv otherz iz to assume there wuz a good choice. Very often there are only bad wunz or only 1.- JO



Let me give you a couple of less-critical possible interpretations for Bush's (Cheney's, really) actions.

BEFORE 9-11, there was an energy commission that Cheney chaired. It was wildly secretive and therefore wildly unpopular with those who were excluded (which was everyone from the public interest).

What was revealed ... 15 years after the fact ... was that the energy commission exempted all fracking operations from all Federal regulations. Fracking, in fact, is the USA's grasp at energy independence. Independence from who? Well, Saudi Arabia, really! And the KSA, you may recall, is the main instigator of sectarian Sunni (convert or die)/ takfiri (denouncer)/ wahhabi (religiously-based political authority of the House of el Saud) strife in the Mideast, as well as the main instigator of the 9-11 attacks. Cheney at one point made some elliptical comment that fracking was a good "transition" energy strategy. Well, that must mean a transition from Saudi oil to something else. Don't you think the Saudi's would feel threatened by that?

It's possible that in an administration packed with Zionist neocons (literally. Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith etc. Some of those neocons helped write a policy paper for Netanyahu of Israel, and Zionist neocons have deep ties to Saudi Arabia, as did the BUSH family) Cheney was playing a deeper game: energy independence from Saudi Arabia. Perhaps, in some ways, Cheney was the only patriot in the entire Bush administration. Or maybe he was just looking to make a lot of money for his oil interests.

Obama's deal with Iran also sticks out like a sore thumb. It clearly cuts across the Saudi interests, and may have been the final trigger for the oil price war that the Saudis are currently waging against everyone. When two nations have had a many-decades-long relationships, as the USA and KSA have had, based on energy, world reserve currency (USD), and geopolitics (anticommunism), and have made many dirty compromises in each others' interest, unwinding that relationship is not a simple task, especially when one is trying to avoid significant retaliation from a powerful entity. It's like a really, really bad divorce, with children involved.

I think part of the problem is that the US government doesn't have ONE interest group in it, it has several, fighting each other. The interests of the American people aren't in that blender, being whirled around with other interests.

If one is considering ONLY the interests of the American people, the choices are much clearer. You only have to consider things like: What is the fallout on the American dollar if the Saudis retaliate against our currency? How can we establish energy independence? How can we protect our banks? How do we unwind the derivatives market which could implode with a USD devaluation?

The only reason why the policies "don't make sense" is because they don't make sense TO US. I'm sure those who're involved- the IMF, the ECB, the Fed, the CIA, the Pentagon, the Zionists - are vigorously representing THEIR interests in the maelstrom.

Quote:

I doubt there is anything that could be revealed that would make me relax my position.- SIGNY

Alienz or Godz/Devilz actually running the world.
Info about the future.
Real jeniusez or supercomputerz taking ALL available info and showing alternativ actionz and outkumz over a long time line. - JO

HAHAHA! OK, yeah, those.



Quote:

Because if they had a GOOD REASON for their strategy, they could have explained it to me already.- SIGNY
Unless the truth iz so terribl that anybody who noz it wish they didnt. - JO

There is no truth so terrible that it's worth NOT facing. The unfaced terrible truth is far worse and more consequential than the one that's being responded to.

Quote:

For a guy who believes in being logical, you kind of turn it off when evaluating your "betters".- SIGNY
Funny. I usually get pegged az an arrogant megalomaniac. -JO

Except in this instance.

Quote:

A pretty good example of people diving into the social structure and not thinking individually.- SIGNY
Me? The Nooalf guy? The guy who gets ridiculed by Townhall and Daily Kos, Sientists and Priests, Skeptics and Bleevrz? -JO

Yep! Even you!



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Wednesday, January 27, 2016 4:46 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


G gets it.

Sig, you can try to formulate a grand skeem out uv a bunch uv motivez just kuz thoze involved can be connected sumhow, but the most likely explanation iz that they were all just doing their own thing.

I think you hav bekum too synical about the offis uv Prezident uv xu United States so cant recognize a good man for wut he iz wen he takes the title.

Yes, Bush 2 wuz PROBABLY too dum for the job and became u puppet for a bad guy. Clinton did enuf bad or shortsited stuf to balans out the good stuf. Bush 1 wuz just carrying on Reaganz ajenda. Reagan wuz a shortsited chowerhed. How far back do you care about?

For probably az long az youv had an interest, we've had less than outstanding prezidents. I can undrstand how you got this way.




----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Wednesday, January 27, 2016 6:03 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I think Justin Trudeau is the coolest president ever.


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Wednesday, January 27, 2016 10:48 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Your thinking haz sum problemz.

1. Hiz title iznt prezident.

2. It iznt the United States.

3. He'z too gay.

4. No. He iznt anywhere near az kool az Obama. Not even the same league.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Wednesday, January 27, 2016 11:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


JO, with all due respect, altho you want to be an unconventional thinker and you claim to want to be REALLY logical, and that the only reason to adopt a phonetic language is to condition people to NOT ACCEPT things that don't make sense, here you are: advocating accepting things that don't make sense, because "authorities may have their reasons that they're not telling us".

Huh.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Wednesday, January 27, 2016 11:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM: There is no truth so terrible that it's worth NOT facing. The unfaced terrible truth is far worse and more consequential than the one that's being responded to. - SIGNY

You mean unless it deals with the UNITED STATES invading other sovereign countries or bombing innocent civilians, THEN it's ok to hide the truth?

Yep!

Quote:

I agree with JO - there are most likely thousands of things we do not know about that influence all of these major political decisions and actions
Oh, you mean a billion things. Or perhaps a trillion things. Or, more likely, a few hundred trillion things. Mostly (if you haven't guess by now) dollars.

Quote:

and they are in constant motion and subject to change from near countless additional influences, second by second. Think of the largest mathematical formula even written and add in random acts of chaos and simple happenstance. The complexity is beyond measure - only guessable.
I understand it's in our nature to want to define and manage these events, to make sense and thereby have some calming impression of control over them, but in truth it only looks like a plan when you look backwards afterwards.

It looks like a plan because it IS a plan. Political, economic, and military events don't happen "by accident". The USA has a rather large military budget which is used to ensure that things don't happen "by accident". As do other nations. There may be contention, but there is little that happens by "chance".

Quote:

Brothers and sisters, for eight years we have labored under oppression. I mean, what has Obama ever done for us?
Well he did save us from the greatest recession since the Great depression…
What?
Yes Reg. The country was in a right mess after Bush when he came in and prevented the total collapse of WALL STREET.

Oh, good! He saved wall Street! And the economy is doing so great that more young people than ever are living in their mommies' and daddies' basements, saddled with student loans and unable to get anything other than a job at McDonalds!

Quote:

That’s right he did do that Reg. He bailed out the Car Industry so that GM and Chrysler are now PROFITING.
Have you heard of "car stuffing"?
Channel Stuffing The Economy: There Has Never Been More Cars "On The Sidelines"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-11/channel-stuffing-economy-ther
e-has-never-been-more-cars-sidelines


Quote:

And created ten million more PART TIME LOW WAGE jobs.
Alright I grant you he did NOT save the country from the Bush Depression, just WALL STREET, but apart from saving the country financially, what has Obama ever done for us?
Saved the BANKS from total collapse…
What?
Reduced the deficit by 2/3rds from 98% under Bush to 2.9%..



AND PROMOTED THE GREATEST WEALTH INEQUALITY IN THE HISTORY OF THE USA

Quote:

Oh and he restored America’s reputation in the world..
Really? You're going with that?

Quote:

That’s right.
Oh dear. I hate to think what other nations really think of us now!
Quote:

Ok. But apart from saving the MORTGAGE INDUSTRY from total collapse, and reducing the deficit by two thirds, what else has he ever done for us?
Health Care.
Oo yes Reg, remember when we couldn’t afford to go to the Doctors.
WELL, WE STILL CAN'T.
Well ok I grant you affordable Health Care for everyone is a good thing but, apart from

the fact that it isn't really AVAILABLE for everyone, nor is it AFFORDABLE for everyone
Quote:

restoring DISrespect for America, and bringing in UNaffordable Health Care, what else has Obama ever done for us?


Quote:

He ended the disastrous war in Iraq.
And started three more.

Quote:

Oo yes.
Alright that is a GOOD THING I grant you..

If you like war.

Quote:

And killed Bin Laden.

And promoted al Baghdadi (ISIL)

Quote:

That’s right.
And got rid of Gaddafi.

And plunged Libya into a nightmare of instability and jihadism, reducing the living standard of the people there by 90%, and definitely reducing their security and freedom.

Quote:

And Mubarak.
Alright, alright. Apart from ending the disastrous Bush War in Iraq AND STARTING THREE MORE, killing Bin Laden and PROMOTING SOMEONE WORSE and supporting the Arab spring AND PLUNGING THE REST OF THE MIDEAST INTO JIHADISM AND SECULAR WAR , what has Obama ever done for us?



Quote:

Climate change?
Killed the Keystone XL when it was economically dead.
Quote:

Gay marriage?
YEAH! One thing!
Quote:

Stem cell research.
OK! Another thing!
Quote:

Oo yes remember when Bush wouldn’t allow that.
And he did get rid of the Bush torture policies.

And outsourced it to our friends. And imposed near-universal surveillance, even beyond what Bush had done. And adopted a star chamber proceedings by which he could get to pick which Americans he would kill.

Quote:

Cuba? STILL EMBARGOED!


Quote:

Record stock market highs.
GREAT FOR THE WEALTHY!

Quote:

School nutrition.
As if schools didn't do nutrition before? Besides, wasn't that Michelle?

Quote:

The Iranian nuclear deal.
One thing that's important.

Quote:

Oh alright but apart from getting rid of the Bush torture policies, FAILING TO CLOSE GITMO, saving WALL STREET from the Great Depression, bailing out the Car Industry PROFITS, pulling us PARTIALLY out of the disastrous war in Iraq AND STARTING THREE MORE AND STILL KEEPING A FORCE IN AFGHANISTAN, killing Bin Laden AND PROMOTING SOMEONE WORSE, gay marriage THE LEAST HE COULD DO, climate change NOTHING SO FAR, Cuba STILL EMBARGOED, stem cell research, school nutrition and UNAffordable Health Care, what has Obama ever done for us?


Quote:

He prevented Sarah Palin becoming Vice President.
And put Hillary in charge of foreign policy. So instead of an idiot we had corrupt neocon slime?

AND HE'S STILL PROMOTING THE SAME DISASTROUS "FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS" that got us into our economically-devitalized state. And promoted the biggest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich- ever.

GOOD JOB, MR PRESIDENT!


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Thursday, January 28, 2016 12:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


And now, for something completely different.

I've said in other threads that it's an ill wind that blows nobody any good whatsoever. I've also said that TPTB don't look on jihadism with the same fear that we do. They've used jihadists as their tools in the past (Afghanistan overtly, Chechnya secretly) and they're still using them today in Libya and Syria and Yemen. And even if jihadists go off the reservation, and do something unexpected, that can always be used to advantage, too.

As soon as th Paris massacres happened, I said that could be used to suspend the French Constitution and ... voila! ... the Constitution is suspended!

The Patriot Act, was passed hastily after 9-11.

ISIL seems to be the catalyst to pass an undending war powers act, which would give Obama and any other President unlimited power to wage war against ISIL anywhere. (All a President has to say is that an action is required to "fight ISIL" and American troops can fight anywhere.) Congress would be permanently giving up its authority to declare war.

Mitch McConnell Ready To Give President Unlimited War Powers
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mitch-mcconnell-war-authorization-
isis_us_56a115eae4b0404eb8f083d0


If Obama were really a cool President, he's veto the bill.

JO, I'm trying to be nice. You're a naive young man, but how you go so totally entranced with Obama's manufactured appearance on a reality TV show is ... incredible.

--------------
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Thursday, January 28, 2016 12:47 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Your thinking haz sum problemz.

1. Hiz title iznt prezident.

2. It iznt the United States.

3. He'z too gay.

4. No. He iznt anywhere near az kool az Obama. Not even the same league.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com



Small minded man you... he's way cooler than Obama. And what's with the gay slur. Are you homophobic?

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Thursday, January 28, 2016 12:03 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

See, as you requested, I’m trying to have a *discussion* here SIGNYM. We already 1000 times over know what you think about the US - that is in stone and is not questioned.
If your opinion of Russia is already set in stone and well-known, why bring it up - again? It's clear that you think that Russia is a big bad meanie which kills millions of people for no good reason.

Show me what you think Russia is doing that is wrong. What I think of it will depend on the specifics of the situation.

I'm not a pacifist, I believe in the use of deadly force to defend against deadly force. On the other hand, the cure had better not be worse than the disease (as happened in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, and Sudan) so unless there's a lot of nation-rebuilding afterwards, the military "solution" is likely to cause more harm than good.

Personally, tho, I think that discussion belongs in a different thread, so maybe we should take that elsewhere? Possibly into the Ukraine compared to Syria thread? THIS thread was about Obama being the Koolest Prezident EVAR!


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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Thursday, January 28, 2016 2:55 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Small minded man you... he's way cooler than Obama.



NU U! Obamaz finger nail clippingz got more kool than all your prime ministerz in history combined!

Quote:

And what's with the gay slur. Are you homophobic?


Its not a slur. Its a slur that you think its a slur! Its just that gay and kool dont mix. (exept for Adam Lambert, but I'm not sure he'z gay)

I think you dont even know wut kool iz! You need to study The Fonz. Watch a few seazonz uv Happy Dayz.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Thursday, January 28, 2016 3:14 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:and that the only reason to adopt a phonetic language is to condition people to NOT ACCEPT things that don't make sense


Its not the ONLY reazon.

Quote:

here you are: advocating accepting things that don't make sense, because "authorities may have their reasons that they're not telling us".



You hav a point, but its got an element uv strawmanizm in it. I am saying that you cant jump to conclusionz kuz you dont know everything. I am not advocating 'accepting' nonsens.

Therez a saying 'dont ascribe to evil wut can be explained by stupidity.'

I like that saying, but it duz hav sum weaknessez.

Its often difficult or impossible to distinguish between evil and stupidity.
Iz evil really just a symptom uv stupidity? Evil peepl sertainly rely hevily on stupidity in otherz.


----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Thursday, January 28, 2016 9:20 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:

NU U! Obamaz finger nail clippingz got more kool than all your prime ministerz in history combined!

[



Well that IS true. But Trudeau isn't my PM :)

The Fonz ended up a bit of a tragic, an aging rocker living in someone's garage and jumping the shark for some thrills. That isn't cool.

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Friday, January 29, 2016 6:50 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


But you seem so Canadian.

Now you hav problemz with your new post.

1. The Fonz wuznt a rocker, he wuz a greaser.

2. He wuznt ajing az in over the hill.

3. Most importantly - by definition, anything The Fonz did wuz kool.

He wuz the gold standard uv Kool in hiz time, but now, 40 or 60 yirz later (depending on wether you go by wen the show aired or the time period in the show), he haz been exeeded. On the Kool scale, with The Fonz at 100, Obama woud be approximately 525, altho the math gets a little speculativ beyond about 150 sins the scale wuz never intended to go beyond 100.

4. Why do you think renting a room ubuv sumwunz garaj iznt kool? Do you believ money haz sumthing to do with koolness?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Monday, February 1, 2016 3:28 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
But you seem so Canadian.



Yhank you. Canadians seem to me to be a delightful bunch. PLace they have bears and wilderness. Canadians ARE cool.

Quote:


Now you hav problemz with your new post.

1. The Fonz wuznt a rocker, he wuz a greaser.

2. He wuznt ajing az in over the hill.

3. Most importantly - by definition, anything The Fonz did wuz kool.

He wuz the gold standard uv Kool in hiz time, but now, 40 or 60 yirz later (depending on wether you go by wen the show aired or the time period in the show), he haz been exeeded. On the Kool scale, with The Fonz at 100, Obama woud be approximately 525, altho the math gets a little speculativ beyond about 150 sins the scale wuz never intended to go beyond 100.

4. Why do you think renting a room ubuv sumwunz garaj iznt kool? Do you believ money haz sumthing to do with koolness?



Oh dear, pehaps coolness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

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Monday, February 1, 2016 6:31 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Cheney is a Sith Lord, everyone knows that.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

You're assuming that you're dealing with ethical people.- SIGNY

No. I can imajin all sorts uv situationz that woud overide the plain facts. Wun uv the mistakes most peepl make wen jujing the actionz uv otherz iz to assume there wuz a good choice. Very often there are only bad wunz or only 1.- JO



Let me give you a couple of less-critical possible interpretations for Bush's (Cheney's, really) actions.

BEFORE 9-11, there was an energy commission that Cheney chaired. It was wildly secretive and therefore wildly unpopular with those who were excluded (which was everyone from the public interest).

What was revealed ... 15 years after the fact ... was that the energy commission exempted all fracking operations from all Federal regulations. Fracking, in fact, is the USA's grasp at energy independence. Independence from who? Well, Saudi Arabia, really! And the KSA, you may recall, is the main instigator of sectarian Sunni (convert or die)/ takfiri (denouncer)/ wahhabi (religiously-based political authority of the House of el Saud) strife in the Mideast, as well as the main instigator of the 9-11 attacks. Cheney at one point made some elliptical comment that fracking was a good "transition" energy strategy. Well, that must mean a transition from Saudi oil to something else. Don't you think the Saudi's would feel threatened by that?

It's possible that in an administration packed with Zionist neocons (literally. Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith etc. Some of those neocons helped write a policy paper for Netanyahu of Israel, and Zionist neocons have deep ties to Saudi Arabia, as did the BUSH family) Cheney was playing a deeper game: energy independence from Saudi Arabia. Perhaps, in some ways, Cheney was the only patriot in the entire Bush administration. Or maybe he was just looking to make a lot of money for his oil interests.

Obama's deal with Iran also sticks out like a sore thumb. It clearly cuts across the Saudi interests, and may have been the final trigger for the oil price war that the Saudis are currently waging against everyone. When two nations have had a many-decades-long relationships, as the USA and KSA have had, based on energy, world reserve currency (USD), and geopolitics (anticommunism), and have made many dirty compromises in each others' interest, unwinding that relationship is not a simple task, especially when one is trying to avoid significant retaliation from a powerful entity. It's like a really, really bad divorce, with children involved.

I think part of the problem is that the US government doesn't have ONE interest group in it, it has several, fighting each other. The interests of the American people aren't in that blender, being whirled around with other interests.

If one is considering ONLY the interests of the American people, the choices are much clearer. You only have to consider things like: What is the fallout on the American dollar if the Saudis retaliate against our currency? How can we establish energy independence? How can we protect our banks? How do we unwind the derivatives market which could implode with a USD devaluation?

The only reason why the policies "don't make sense" is because they don't make sense TO US. I'm sure those who're involved- the IMF, the ECB, the Fed, the CIA, the Pentagon, the Zionists - are vigorously representing THEIR interests in the maelstrom.

Quote:

I doubt there is anything that could be revealed that would make me relax my position.- SIGNY

Alienz or Godz/Devilz actually running the world.
Info about the future.
Real jeniusez or supercomputerz taking ALL available info and showing alternativ actionz and outkumz over a long time line. - JO

HAHAHA! OK, yeah, those.



Quote:

Because if they had a GOOD REASON for their strategy, they could have explained it to me already.- SIGNY
Unless the truth iz so terribl that anybody who noz it wish they didnt. - JO

There is no truth so terrible that it's worth NOT facing. The unfaced terrible truth is far worse and more consequential than the one that's being responded to.

Quote:

For a guy who believes in being logical, you kind of turn it off when evaluating your "betters".- SIGNY
Funny. I usually get pegged az an arrogant megalomaniac. -JO

Except in this instance.

Quote:

A pretty good example of people diving into the social structure and not thinking individually.- SIGNY
Me? The Nooalf guy? The guy who gets ridiculed by Townhall and Daily Kos, Sientists and Priests, Skeptics and Bleevrz? -JO

Yep! Even you!



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.


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Monday, February 1, 2016 6:57 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Oh dear, pehaps coolness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.



To a degree, but there iz also an absolute perspectiv.

I lerned about kool in grammar skool.

Jose Rosario wuz kool. The girlz woud crowd around him in the library. Wenever he walked in a room it got more lively.

Its sumthing you are born with. A type uv power.


----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Tuesday, February 2, 2016 5:27 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Just because Obama does the same thing, does that make it better?

Yes, actually it does.


SGG

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Tuesday, February 2, 2016 6:07 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Yeah, you're right The Constitution doesn't mean much to any red-blooded American anymore.........what with Cowboy Clive doing his thing out there
in the boonies of Hillbilly Nevada or some such.

Well, so far YOU don't seem to interested in defending it against clear violations.

I'm not as well versed in Constitutional Law as you are. Clear violations, Congress has committees and sub-committees for that, don't they? There must be something they can do to combat such 'clear violations'?

Quote:

But we're talking about Obama aren't we.

SGG, I've been squawking about the spying since NIXON started using the FBI to infiltrate protest organizations!

I did not know that!

Were you not here when I brought up - over and over- the revelation by AT&T technician Mark Klein that BUSH had started splicing into the AT&T lines at their San Francisco exchange? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

No, not here. But I wouldn't put it past Bush & Company.

For my pains, I was treated like some sort of woo-woo leftwing conspiracy nutjob who was making to much of nothing!

Not by me.

This isn't about OBAMA, and that you keep reacting as if I'm targeting OBAMA specifically (Because he's half-black? Because he's a Democrat?) is frustrating beyond belief. Try removing the individual from the argument. I'd be making the same criticisms whether Obama was purple or green or Republican or Peace&Freedom. Violating the Constitution is violating the Constitution, no matter who's doing it.

Okay, you make your statements, I make mine. Yes, violators should be punished. No matter what! That you know of, has that happened to any president? Nixon comes to my mind. Anyone else?

Quote:

So, you think that Snowden is a hero? One question: If he's such a hero, then why did he run?
You're kidding, right?

No, that's why I asked the question. Did he not violate his oath?

Quote:

Why did he blow the whistle? What was his motive? Actually, I could investigate that
He blew the whistle - LIKE SO MANY OTHERS- because he was participating in an activity that was frankly unconstitutional. He lost a LOT because of it. But, yeah- go ahead and "investigate" it. While you're at it, why don't you investigate what he revealed as well?

You tell me. I am not defending what he did, if he's a whistleblower then he's a hero. It takes guts to do that, yet he's in Russia or China.

Did you hear about the 50 or so DIA analysts who blew the whistle on the fact that their reports on our anti-ISIL strategy were being re-written into happy-talk for political purposes? No, of course not.

Nope, never heard of them.

There are a lot of whistleblowers out there, blowing whistles. Maybe you should listen to them.

I'm having a little trouble living my life. I'm not as all-knowing as you are.

Quote:

He stole a shitload of documents, that much I know. Claims Americans, innocent Americans were spied on...........Hmmmmmm, where did I hear that before?
Lots of places. Possibly even here, from me, about GWB. The fact that you heard about other instances of surveillance instigated by other Presidents doesn't make Obama's violations any less true, or any less important. Stop trying to make exceptions for Obama. It's beneath you, or it should be. Apply the same rigorous standards that you would apply to Bush or any other President. Insert "BUSH" everywhere you hear about a criticism of Obama, and if you find certain actions would be heinous under Bush, then they should be equally heinous under Obama. Isn't that so?

Yes.

Quote:

Again, I digress. This is about Obama and his secrets which, of course, no other president before him has had.
Yeah, thanks for mis-stating what I said.

I'm an equal-opportunity accuser. Do you want me to start linking the many, many criticisms of BUSH that I made here? Why would you distort my viewpoints that way? Because what I've said has been very clear, and not at all muted.

Yep, won't happen again.

By the way, you will see, if you bother to look, that I gave OBAMA a VERY wide margin when he was first elected. Despite his lack of record, I voted for him on the basis that I already knew what Hillary was about (neocon) and that if Obama only managed to keep 15% of his many promises, he wouldn't be doing too badly.

Not necessary to bring up your past deeds. I will take your word for it.

I defended him against the rightwing "birther" nutjobs who were claiming that he was a Kenyan Muslim socialist. As if! I didn't start to have SUBSTANTIVE criticisms until about three years into his first term, when he had proven himself to be both a corporate shill and a serial Constitutional transgressor.


Corporate shill!? Because?

Quote:

Then Congress should impeach him, shouldn't they?
Yes, they should. Bush too.

YOU HAVE TO WONDER, or at least you might want to wonder, what the POINT of all of this surveillance is. What was it meant to accomplish? Did it actually catch any terrorists, prevent any terrorist acts?

ER... no.

You do know that the FBI have thwarted a number of home made terrorists. Some have slipped through the cracks too, but I do wonder why would they spy on me. Anyway, I should hire a lawyer to defend my right to privacy, then the shit will really hit the fan.

Quote:

They have control of both houses don't they? Oh, what evil lurks in the heart of the "colorful" president born in Kenya.
Oh my fucking god. Why do you keep turning this into some sort of reaction to rightwing nutjobs?

It's a hobby of mine.

Quote:

By the way, have you ever heard of the Patriot Act? Just asking!
yes, I've heard of the Patriot Act. It's unconstitutional. Just in case you've forgotten what we're talking about, here is the part in the Constitution about search and seizure. It's pretty plain what the Founding Fathers had in mind when they wrote it, it's very short, and worth a thoughtful read on your part:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Know it! That's why I brought it up.

Quote:

Gee, how clever of Obama to do that way back in 2001.
And I have faulted BUSH, over and over, and over and over about torture, about the Patriot Act, about using 9-11 and cooked intelligence to lead us into pointless wars that destabilized the entire mideast, about mass surveillance.

Just because Obama does the same thing, does that make it better?

Just being obnoxious.

Whenever somebody criticizes OBAMA, liberals (such as yourself?) reply with "But BUSH...!" We've had two miscreants in the WH in a row. One Democrat, one Republican. Neither one of them has represented the interests of the American people. Both have violated the Constitution. The fact that Obama is half-black is irrelevant to his misdeeds, or at least it should be, if you're trying to judge equally.

So I'm a liberal now.............thought I was a Pisces!

And just wait till the rest of the shit comes out. Both Presidents- very, very dirty.

I'm sure. Makes me wonder what this country is all about. I mean, presidents come and go and do what they think is right for the country.
Nixon spied on the Dems, Reagan had the Iran-Contra thing, Bush had the Iraq Debacle, Clinton had just about everything in the book, Obama is
a Constitutional law breaker. Trump will have his real estate deals and 3 wives, and God knows what else. Makes you think, don't it? Which president
can anyone honestly say doesn't have a scandal in his closet?

Of course, only you can have the answer.


SGG

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.


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Tuesday, February 2, 2016 6:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I'm sure. Makes me wonder what this country is all about. I mean, presidents come and go and do what they think is right for the country.


Really???


After all you've seen and all you've been through, do you really think that they're doing what's "right for the country"?

Do you really think "the country" even rates a minute's thought, other than "How can I get 'the country' to go along with the plan"?



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, February 7, 2016 6:45 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh dear.

Was this the moment when you realized that there was no such thing as Santa Claus? That Presidents are NOT our national daddies (or mommies), lying awake at night worrying about how to keep the national family safe and happy?

Oops.

Sorry to say, they are much more venal, and much more purchasable than you have imagined.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, February 8, 2016 6:12 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Well then, that would make me a fool, wouldn't it?


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

I'm sure. Makes me wonder what this country is all about. I mean, presidents come and go and do what they think is right for the country.


Really???


After all you've seen and all you've been through, do you really think that they're doing what's "right for the country"?

Do you really think "the country" even rates a minute's thought, other than "How can I get 'the country' to go along with the plan"?



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.


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Monday, February 8, 2016 6:18 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Oh my...........I had not realized, poor dumb me. Presidents, Congressmen & women, elected officials, for the most part, are unreliable, egotistical scumbags.

The 'system' is rigged. The entire system.............oh, woe to me, poor dumb ignorant me. Well now, what to do?

Thank you, O exalted one, for opening my eyes to the vagaries of life.
I am humbled by your wisdom and presence..........................


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh dear.

Was this the moment when you realized that there was no such thing as Santa Claus? That Presidents are NOT our national daddies (or mommies), lying awake at night worrying about how to keep the national family safe and happy?

Oops.

Sorry to say, they are much more venal, and much more purchasable than you have imagined.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.


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Tuesday, February 9, 2016 12:14 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Tell me, O exalted one, what makes you so wise. Share with us peons your greatness and wisdom so that we too may wax poetic. Oh wait, you already do that.

Somehow my dumbness and numbness in these matters confuse and stifle my ability to learn and absorb such lofty teachings. I remain humbled by your presence and intellect, surely such a dullard as myself can never hope to
reach such heights.

I bow down in submission.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh dear.

Was this the moment when you realized that there was no such thing as Santa Claus? That Presidents are NOT our national daddies (or mommies), lying awake at night worrying about how to keep the national family safe and happy?

Oops.

Sorry to say, they are much more venal, and much more purchasable than you have imagined.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.


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Thursday, February 11, 2016 5:52 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Tell me, O exalted one, what makes you so wise.


It was just a realization that I had that I was trying to express: I was assuming that Obama (specifically) had come to the Presidency naive but with good intentions, and was a somewhat hapless piece in the game of geopolitics and international economics, struggling to achieve at least SOME part of his original intentions.

It hadn't occurred to me until just a little while ago that he might actually be an active player with personal goals of his own: The deliberate dismemberment of US sovereignty. An eye on being worth a few hundred million post-Presidency. A bolt-hole for himself and his family should things turn sour. Nothing in there about the American people. That would explain his consistent advocacy for the TPP and TTIP. (Which you really should look into.)

The gulf between that and Koolest prezident EVAR! ... it just struck me how people, including myself, still feel that Obama (and other politicians) spare a thought in our direction. But I suspect that more and more aren't even giving themselves that fig-leaf for their thoughts, they may not even be trying to fool themselves anymore about why they're doing what they're doing. Cognitive dissonance may have entirely disappeared, even for our icons, and we might be the only ones left, fooling ourselves. That's all.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, February 12, 2016 5:32 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Okay, sharing wisdom.....................Take One:

"It was just a realization that I had that I was trying to express: I was assuming that Obama (specifically) had come to the Presidency naive but with good intentions, and was a somewhat hapless piece in the game of geopolitics and international economics, struggling to achieve at least SOME part of his original intentions."

SGG: Yes, now we are getting somewhere. I agree with your assessment that Obama (and some others, I'll add) entered into the Presidency naïve beyond measure, but with good intentions, and, as you so eloquently stated, a "hapless piece in the game of geopolitics and international economics, struggling to achieve at least SOME part of his original intentions."

I always wondered about the phrase "America's best interests" and have come to the conclusion that all presidents must say these words (it's in their contract), but too that they are bound, not by any sense of patriotic duty, but more so by TPTB. Unwitting and naïve participants going in, and then, resigned to the fact that those powers that be mean business. There is the illusion of America as this powerful nation of a bunch of Do-gooders sacrificing life and limb for freedom, justice etc. Those best interests
are not always in "our" best interests. The 99% of us who struggle to make ends meet serve those who remain in the shadows pulling the strings. Laws are made to benefit those in power, but us poor slobs have little to combat those shadowy figures. You can't fight what you can't, or won't, see.


"It hadn't occurred to me until just a little while ago that he might actually be an active player with personal goals of his own: The deliberate dismemberment of US sovereignty"

SGG: I'm going to answer this seriously, although I do not agree with the above statement. I will take a look at the TPP and TTIP (perhaps that may have a bearing on the course of things globally, but, more immediately, on your statement). First of all, I don't believe that he has "dismembered" US Sovereignty, deliberate or otherwise. I suspect that your mentioning the TPP and the TTIP has something to do with your statement. Until I know more, I'll reserve my comment. Although I don't see it as deliberate, that would intone that Obama has the mind of a madman seeking world domination, or some such......to be continued....

Still though, if he has an eye of making money for himself (I thought that was the idea, you know, the American Dream and all). I don't see him deliberately weakening the country - wouldn't that be counter-productive.
It's like burning down your house to then sell it, it doesn't follow. If he were looking to get rich off the land, wouldn't it behoove him to make the
country as strong as possible to then capitalize (Capitalism usually works that way; unless, of course, he's looking to make Germany, France or England look good to then make money overseas. Nah, that makes no sense).
in order to sell the books and make $500,000 per speech from Wall Street.

Question: What could Obama possibly gain by making America weaker? Is his
only motivation to live more comfortably? Or is it that he secretly hates the country? (As an aside, both he and his family will receive preferential
treatment from the office of the presidency, if only for appearance sake).

I suggest that there's more to it than meets the eye, but I wouldn't begin to speculate (since I am not privy to such deeply held secrets). Of course,
the truth will never really come out; but if it did I suspect we wouldn't live to tell the tale.


SGG

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Friday, February 12, 2016 9:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Okay, sharing wisdom.....................Take One:

"It was just a realization that I had that I was trying to express: I was assuming that Obama (specifically) had come to the Presidency naive but with good intentions, and was a somewhat hapless piece in the game of geopolitics and international economics, struggling to achieve at least SOME part of his original intentions."

SGG: Yes, now we are getting somewhere. I agree with your assessment that Obama (and some others, I'll add) entered into the Presidency naïve beyond measure, but with good intentions, and, as you so eloquently stated, a "hapless piece in the game of geopolitics and international economics, struggling to achieve at least SOME part of his original intentions."

I always wondered about the phrase "America's best interests" and have come to the conclusion that all presidents must say these words (it's in their contract)

Also, "And God bless America". That's in the contract too!

Quote:

but to that they are bound, not by any sense of patriotic duty, but more so by TPTB. Unwitting and naïve participants going in, and then, resigned to the fact that those powers that be mean business. There is the illusion of America as this powerful nation of a bunch of Do-gooders sacrificing life and limb for freedom, justice etc.

Those best interests are not always in "our" best interests. The 99% of us who struggle to make ends meet serve those who remain in the shadows pulling the strings. Laws are made to benefit those in power, but us poor slobs have little to combat those shadowy figures. You can't fight what you can't, or won't, see.

Indeed

Quote:

"It hadn't occurred to me until just a little while ago that he might actually be an active player with personal goals of his own: The deliberate dismemberment of US sovereignty"

SGG: I'm going to answer this seriously, although I do not agree with the above statement. I will take a look at the TPP and TTIP (perhaps that may have a bearing on the course of things globally, but, more immediately, on your statement). First of all, I don't believe that he has "dismembered" US Sovereignty, deliberate or otherwise. I suspect that your mentioning the TPP and the TTIP has something to do with your statement. Until I know more, I'll reserve my comment. Although I don't see it as deliberate, that would intone that Obama has the mind of a madman seeking world domination, or some such......to be continued....

Still though, if he has an eye of making money for himself (I thought that was the idea, you know, the American Dream and all). I don't see him deliberately weakening the country - wouldn't that be counter-productive.



I'm going to place information about the TPP and TTIP into the thread "Meanwhile the TPP was signed" . But to give you a brief preview of the critical issue in both trade agreements ... Here is a real-life example of what can happen (is happening):

In an effort to curb tobacco use, Australia has mandated that tobacco products be sold in PLAIN PAPER PACKAGING. Phillip Morris - whose sole purpose is to profit handsomely from the sale of an addictive product which has no human benefit whatsoever - has SUED AUSTRALIA because it claims that plain paper packaging is an expropriation of profits, and that plain paper packaging is an unreasonable and discriminatory measure under a Hong Kong-Australia trade agreement.

This dispute goes to an international body of private lawyers for resolution under the trade agreement, not decided by either Hong Kong OR Australia.

If decided in favor of Phillip Morris, the government of Australia may be forced to (1) rescind its plain paper packaging law and (2) pay a hefty fine to Phillip Morris.

Thus, the government of Australia loses part of its sovereign rights to write regulations which protect the health of its citizens.
https://www.ag.gov.au/tobaccoplainpackaging

I can think of several dozen similar potential disputes; where national governments or even states, counties, and cities have been, or could be, sued by international corporations for "expropriation of expected profits". Think about the potential for lawsuits over ...

Banning the importation of GMOs
Requiring the labeling of GMOs
Requiring generic medications be available as alternatives to higher-price brand names
Banning the importation of "mad cow" foods
Imposing a carbon tax on imported fuels
Requiring free-ware versions of software be available
Banning the importation of child-labor, slave-labor, or unrepresented-labor products
Banning the importation of products obtained via egregious destruction of natural systems (eg overfishing, whale hunting)
Placing a tariff on imported foods to encourage agricultural self-sufficiency
Banning the privatization of water wells by companies such as Nestle and Bechtel
The maintenance of national industries such as power generation/ distribution, port facilities and airports, oil extraction and refining etc.

etc etc which would result in a case being brought against the government by a transnational corporation seeking to maximize its profits.

Quote:

It's like burning down your house to then sell it, it doesn't follow. If he were looking to get rich off the land, wouldn't it behoove him to make the country as strong as possible to then capitalize (Capitalism usually works that way; unless, of course, he's looking to make Germany, France or England look good to then make money overseas. Nah, that makes no sense).in order to sell the books and make $500,000 per speech from Wall Street.
Well, I look at Bill Clinton as a President who has significantly weakened the USA through NAFTA. That hasn't inhibited his ability to profit off his Presidency, nor has it made him or Hillary any less popular with the Wall Street crowd.

Quote:

Question: What could Obama possibly gain by making America weaker? Is his
only motivation to live more comfortably? Or is it that he secretly hates the country? (As an aside, both he and his family will receive preferential treatment from the office of the presidency, if only for appearance sake).

Money. From Wall Street, and the transnational corporations and banks that would benefit.

Quote:

I suggest that there's more to it than meets the eye, but I wouldn't begin to speculate (since I am not privy to such deeply held secrets). Of course, the truth will never really come out; but if it did I suspect we wouldn't live to tell the tale.
All we have to do is look at Bill and Hillary Clinton and GWB to figure out how this works.

Thanks for your reply. More info in the TPP thread. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60369

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, February 13, 2016 10:42 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I think hiz plan iz to take it eazy after hiz term iz over.

But, if prezident uv the US wuz just a stepping stone to greater pozition, he haz my support.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Saturday, February 13, 2016 11:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
I think hiz plan iz to take it eazy after hiz term iz over.

But, if prezident uv the US wuz just a stepping stone to greater pozition, he haz my support.



Even if he's just sold you down-river to get to that next stepping stone?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Tuesday, February 16, 2016 8:02 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, I think what this all boils down to is: Could the President be a sociopath or psychopath?

I think that people like Bill Gates and George Soros are. Quite frankly I think that Hillary is too. But what do people think of TPTB generally? Do we assume that they're often sociopaths and psychopaths? Or do we just assume that they're people just like us albeit with greater power and authority and money?

Quote:

... On February 11, the Guardian ran an article by George Soros which had run a day earlier here entitled "Putin is a bigger threat to Europe's existence than Isis."

After a quick check of my vital signs, I confirmed that I was indeed awake and the article was real and in the Guardian not The Onion. Before I look at the tissue of untruths which make up the substance of Soros' article, a few general words about psychopaths are in order.

I have met a few psychopaths in my life - a pernicious but small-time example is a real-estate "salesman" in Spain who cost my family a great deal of time and money. The real problem with psychopaths - big-time and small-time - is not primarily that they do bad things, but that we - non-psychopaths - are ill-prepared to deal with the fundamental difference between us and them.

We - people with operational consciences - think (wrongly) that everyone is like us. We are shackled to the assumption that just because we would not do unspeakably evil things - or would be unable to live with ourselves if we did - all other people work the same way.

They do not.

When a psychopath lies, or steals, or manipulates - or does whatever he thinks is required to get what he wants - he has no greater emotional connection with his actions than you or I have with yesterday's lunch.

We, the non-psychopaths, tell little lies and do little wrongs. But we have a limit beyond which we will not go. For the psychopath, scale makes no difference. Stealing a family's savings, or crashing an economy, or destroying a country is of no more consequence to the psychopath than deciding not to return ten bucks to a cashier who had made a mistake.

And no matter what evil the psychopath meticulously plotted and practiced against you, to him, what happens is your fault. Always.

Which brings me back to George Soros.

In the Guardian's article, then, Soros claims "the US and the EU are making a grievous error in thinking that President Vladimir Putin's Russia is a potential ally in the fight against Islamic State."

The assumptions here are based on pure falsehood. My colleague, the diligent and forthright journalist and writer Gearóid Ó Colmáin, laid an axe as sharp as any to the root of the notion that the so-called War on Terror (taken to include Islamic State) serves anything other than the interests of what Ó Colmáin rightly calls a "tiny and particularly tyrannical ruling elite".

In an interview with RT, Ó Colmáin said, "There is no War on Terror. There is a war which is being waged using terrorist proxy groups and they are being used against nation states who are resisting US and Israeli hegemony. And they are also being used as a means of disciplining the work forces in Europe. In a period of mass unemployment and austerity, you now have terrorist attacks being committed by terrorists funded, armed and trained by Western intelligence agencies. There is no such thing as ISIS. ISIS is a creation of the United States."


Soros and his ilk created and benefit from what Soros calls "Islamic State," yet his argument not only disregards that fact, it kicks blame in the direction of the one major power - Russia - which has taken steps to deal with this US creation.



More at http://www.sott.net/article/312167-George-Soros-A-psychopaths-psychopa
th


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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Wednesday, February 17, 2016 1:18 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Interesting ideaz.

Sum peepl are good at dreaming up conspirasy theoryz. Sum are in a pozition to impliment them.

If you had the ability to influens the direction uv the human rase, wut woud you do?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Wednesday, February 17, 2016 6:40 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I'd make people more rational. The problem with people is that they just chug along on what they've been told by the authorities. They never look behind the wizard's curtain, so they get scammed over and over and over.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Wednesday, February 17, 2016 11:30 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Thanks, G. I hadnt seen any uv the Comedienz in Carz yet. That wuz great!

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Wednesday, February 17, 2016 11:32 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'd make people more rational.



We hav a common goal.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Thursday, February 18, 2016 5:41 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


I don't know about that, but you have to be sick to want to run a country this big and this polarized, and this racist. And it's not solely concentrated to the south, they are plenty of haters to go around. Trouble
is the mentality of the people and how easily they've been brainwash into
the kind of thinking that allows for that mentality.

The Koch brothers have spent their money wisely.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, I think what this all boils down to is: Could the President be a sociopath or psychopath?

I think that people like Bill Gates and George Soros are. Quite frankly I think that Hillary is too. But what do people think of TPTB generally? Do we assume that they're often sociopaths and psychopaths? Or do we just assume that they're people just like us albeit with greater power and authority and money?

Quote:

... On February 11, the Guardian ran an article by George Soros which had run a day earlier here entitled "Putin is a bigger threat to Europe's existence than Isis."

After a quick check of my vital signs, I confirmed that I was indeed awake and the article was real and in the Guardian not The Onion. Before I look at the tissue of untruths which make up the substance of Soros' article, a few general words about psychopaths are in order.

I have met a few psychopaths in my life - a pernicious but small-time example is a real-estate "salesman" in Spain who cost my family a great deal of time and money. The real problem with psychopaths - big-time and small-time - is not primarily that they do bad things, but that we - non-psychopaths - are ill-prepared to deal with the fundamental difference between us and them.

We - people with operational consciences - think (wrongly) that everyone is like us. We are shackled to the assumption that just because we would not do unspeakably evil things - or would be unable to live with ourselves if we did - all other people work the same way.

They do not.

When a psychopath lies, or steals, or manipulates - or does whatever he thinks is required to get what he wants - he has no greater emotional connection with his actions than you or I have with yesterday's lunch.

We, the non-psychopaths, tell little lies and do little wrongs. But we have a limit beyond which we will not go. For the psychopath, scale makes no difference. Stealing a family's savings, or crashing an economy, or destroying a country is of no more consequence to the psychopath than deciding not to return ten bucks to a cashier who had made a mistake.

And no matter what evil the psychopath meticulously plotted and practiced against you, to him, what happens is your fault. Always.

Which brings me back to George Soros.

In the Guardian's article, then, Soros claims "the US and the EU are making a grievous error in thinking that President Vladimir Putin's Russia is a potential ally in the fight against Islamic State."

The assumptions here are based on pure falsehood. My colleague, the diligent and forthright journalist and writer Gearóid Ó Colmáin, laid an axe as sharp as any to the root of the notion that the so-called War on Terror (taken to include Islamic State) serves anything other than the interests of what Ó Colmáin rightly calls a "tiny and particularly tyrannical ruling elite".

In an interview with RT, Ó Colmáin said, "There is no War on Terror. There is a war which is being waged using terrorist proxy groups and they are being used against nation states who are resisting US and Israeli hegemony. And they are also being used as a means of disciplining the work forces in Europe. In a period of mass unemployment and austerity, you now have terrorist attacks being committed by terrorists funded, armed and trained by Western intelligence agencies. There is no such thing as ISIS. ISIS is a creation of the United States."


Soros and his ilk created and benefit from what Soros calls "Islamic State," yet his argument not only disregards that fact, it kicks blame in the direction of the one major power - Russia - which has taken steps to deal with this US creation.



More at http://www.sott.net/article/312167-George-Soros-A-psychopaths-psychopa
th


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.


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Monday, May 16, 2016 10:03 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr




----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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