Shootings! by Wishimay

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Shootings!

POSTED BY: WISHIMAY
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 29, 2023 16:39
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Saturday, December 5, 2015 12:05 AM

rezident owtsidr

Now now! Lets keep it civil....

you blithering imbisilz.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 12:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Did I say ANYWHERE that it was spontaneous?

NO, but you keep saying that this was just "workplace violence, Muslim style" and that's not what it was.

Workplace violence is when people snap and do dumb shit, these people PLANNED to do dumb shit, for a long time, hence... TERRORISTS. As in their trade, their specialty... is TERRORISM, complete with agenda, and they certainly qualify. This was deliberate. Someone out there said "let's make Americans question the "friendlies" that live right around the corner."
Let's get... personal...

On another note... Trump is double sure to win now. Welcome to a brand new witchhunt, folks.

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 1:00 AM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3346500/Pictured-handcuffed-bo
dy-San-Bernardino-terrorist-Pakistani-wife-pledged-allegiance-ISIS-Facebook-slaughter-14.html

See? His family keep trying to say "she turned the nice man." That's crap. Muslim men wouldn't allow themselves to be that manipulated by a woman, and it's looking like HE sought HER out for this purpose. This was directed. The guy has ALL the power in a Muslim relationship...

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 1:06 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

You seem to be trifling on what they were WEARING. No one here cares...

No, YOU seem unable to read all the OTHER stuff I posted that had NOTHING to do with what they were wearing. And no, I didn't say it was ALL about workplace violence. I underlined the major points I made.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/03/us/how-often-do-mass-shootings-occur
-on-average-every-day-records-show.html?hpw&rref=us&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well

How Often Do Mass Shootings Occur? On Average, Every Day, Records Show

We'll probably find out more later, but ...

You don't know San Bernardino like I know San Bernardino, I suspect. When I first moved to California, one of my co-workers who lived there told me people called it San Ber'draino'. There's a lot of poverty and extreme people off in that direction - bikers, gangs, 'desert rats', drugs, prostitution.

It's possible the man got disillusioned with the people around him and tried to find a more holy way to live, which led to him becoming more extreme. I can imagine him becoming profoundly alienated from the society he was living in.

One of the people who was killed, Thalasinos, was apparently quite a vocal Zionist. Or maybe Farook was working with some adamant Christians who made the workplace into alien, unwelcoming territory. Or both, or something else. He seems to have become isolated from his co-workers, exchanging pleasantries, but little else.

Certainly there are people who prey on those like Farook, who would use him as another pawn, fanning discontent and promising an answer.

This was a Christmas ('holiday') party. He left angry, and came back with his wife, guns and a plan they put into action. There was something about work, about his interactions with people there, and I suspect about religion that coalesced into this violence. I don't think it was primarily driven by radical Islam, or political. I think he's a man who just snapped.

"No matter the reason, this was planned out for a WHILE. If it looks like jihad ..."

But it doesn't. Not to me. Jihad targets maximum causalities of strangers, targets of maximum effect. It's strategic. This targeted a small, isolated gathering of people - co-workers, people he knew. He could have found much more damaging targets, like Ontario National Airport. Or the Inland Center, a large mall area. Hey, it's shopping season - right?

It wouldn't be the first time a mentally unbalanced person associated with, and found a rationale through, an extremist position. For example Jared Lee Loughner ('Gabby' Giffords' shooter).

ETA: It's always possible we'll find that his strain of violence had deep and enduring contacts with radical Islam. At this point, with the information available, to me he looks more like a pawn and less like a player.

This I think is a man who was personally and pathologically un-moored. He didn't find meaning in his family, society, co-workers or job. He seemed to be searching for meaning, trying to fill a void. I suspect one of the things that drew him to his wife was her religious certainty.

IF the world around him had been a different place ... IF he had better contact with his family ... IF his surroundings hadn't been so fractured and dysfunctional ... IF his coworkers had made better contact with him ... it's POSSIBLE he would have been supported enough, steadied enough to carry on with a normal life. But he was looking to fill a void, and, sadly, there are people who are happy enough to exploit that. It's not black and white like you seem to think.

That was my point.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 10:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

This I think is a man who was personally and pathologically un-moored. He didn't find meaning in his family, society, co-workers or job. He seemed to be searching for meaning, trying to fill a void. I suspect one of the things that drew him to his wife was her religious certainty.

And I'm saying that pretending like you know the place or what was running through these people's heads IS CRAZY.

If his own family didn't know, you sure don't!

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 10:55 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

This doesn't smack of "jihad" to me, either. Or at least, not completely. I was talking with someone yesterday and they wondered if this was a case or terrorism or workplace violence, and I think the answer is "yes".

The choice of targets isn't typical for a terrorist action, which is usually depersonalized and aimed at something symbolic - a shopping mall (mindless consumption), a police station or city/state government legislature (government authority), or Las Vegas (because its so corrupt), bridge or electrical tower (infrastructure) or any number of other symbolic targets.

Clearly, the husband (shooter) felt very estranged from his co-workers, who kidded him about his beard. He was more than isolated, it sounds like he was being picked on. Maybe there were one or two people in particular who targeted him, but since nobody stood up for him he wound up putting everyone in the same mental basket, and the wife felt estranged from this society, and between the two of them they cooked up this major PERSONAL grudge.

I hate to say it, but I've seen shit that that in our workplace, where someone felt not only extraordinarily special but also extraordinarily put-upon. Fortunately, all that resulted in was meaningless lawsuits. Had the person had a different mindset, I could easily imagine "workplace violence" with an overlay of "ethnic prejudice". If that ethnicity happened to coincide with an already-suspect group, it could be interpreted as "terrorism".

People - especially people whose grip on reality is a little borderline -get wound up about all kinds of things. Usually it seems to be the right wing that goes over the edge to violence because its usually the right wing (in THIS country, anyway) exhorting people to pick up a gun.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 1:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
This doesn't smack of "jihad" to me, either. Or at least, not completely.

SHE PLEDGED ALLEGIANCE TO ISIS DURING THE ATTACK.

How can that be construed as anything other than terrorism???

Granted, it's a different M.O. than most, but this was a different style attack than most.

They weren't "disenfranchised" they sought this out... She came here with the intent of passing on her DNA and blowing people to hell.

Did you miss the:
Farook contacted Al Nusra Front, an Al Qaeda-affiliated group in Syria and al Shabaab in Somalia.

The last time Rahemaan Ali saw his friend was three weeks ago, when Farook abruptly stopped coming to pray.

INTENT- do you know what it looks like, 'cause THIS is what it looks like!

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 2:59 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Man, you guys will believe anything if it fits some fantasy you already heave in your head.

2 things: The body armor was reported by the media because that's what the witnesses believed they had seen. It was several hours until the Militant Muslim killers were cornered and killed, so it took a while for the full story to get out. And it's STILL unfolding.

There was no 'fantasy' in anyone's head, save for maybe you , and the MSM, bending over backwards to call this attack anything and EVERYTHING other than what it actually was.

Radical Islamic terrorism.

Nothing else. No work place violence. No one 'snapped'. No postpartum depression by the young wifey... pure - radical - islamic butchery. NOTHING else.

Quote:
I don't think it was primarily driven by radical Islam, or political. I think he's a man who just snapped.

You're wrong. Completely and totally wrong.

Think long and hard about that, and readjust your world view. I suspect it's been out of kilter for many years.

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 3:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Think long and hard about that, and readjust your world view. I suspect it's been out of kilter for many years.

It's that people in general don't want to believe the worst about others. Then they have to re-evaluate what they think they know about the people they know, and that's just too disconcerting for some people to do.
This is where the "expect the worst" part of

"Hope for the best, expect the worst, and may all your surprises be pleasant." comes in at.

It's easy for me, I tossed hope out the window years ago....

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 3:37 PM

America loves a winner!

And what's it say about the stories of foreign born, university educated wifey, not the American born husband, being the driving force behind this " radicalization " ?

I'm guessing NONE of that registers w/ the standard view of "men" being the brutish, thug animals who just want to slaughter and dominate, while the women are all about caring and nurturing, and if only THEY ran things, there'd be no more war.

Radical Islam is JUST that mind corrupting and depraved.

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 6:11 PM

I'm not so sure SHE did any converting, I'll lay money that he sought out a women that would fit in with him, because HE is the one that signed up on the dating site.

But, we may never know. I think for many people it's just easier to blame her 'cause she's the "ferener" and not home-growed...

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 6:20 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Too many logic fails to try and address them all - so here's the very last one

"I'm not so sure SHE did any converting, I'll lay money that he sought out a women that would fit in with him, because HE is the one that signed up on the dating site."

And, she didn't? Then how did they meet there?

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 6:56 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

And just so you don't feel picked-on Wish, here's a howler that rappy posted:

"The body armor was reported by the media ..."

And you believe EVERYTHING you read? Actually, I guarantee you don't. Here's things 'in the media' I guarantee you won't believe:

http://www.9news.com/story/news/local/2015/12/04/psychological-impact-
of-san-bernardino-shooting/76809858/
"What we know about terrorist organizations is that they are really good at finding vulnerable people to then exploit and radicalize. They do it by developing a sense of community, that they're great with social media, they can connect with people all over the world very easily and make it sound appealing."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/us/syed-farook-tashfeen-malik-mass-shoot
ing-profile/
A law enforcement official said it appeared ISIS may have inspired the attack, but none of the officials said the terror group directed or ordered the attack.
"This is looking more and more like self-radicalization," one law enforcement official said.

So - you only believe what you read - AS LONG AS IT FITS YOUR FANTASIES. That whole "body armor and go-pro cams" thing ... yeah, that fits your fantasies.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 9:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

And, she didn't? Then how did they meet there?

HE went over there and went looking (ONLINE!!!), if he just wanted a girl, I'm sure he coulda found a Muslim gal here, but maybe not a Jihadist...

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 9:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

"This is looking more and more like self-radicalization," one law enforcement official said.

So - you only believe what you read - AS LONG AS IT FITS YOUR FANTASIES. That whole "body armor and go-pro cams" thing ... yeah, that fits your fantasies.

I'm sure at first glance it seems isolated, but when you look closer you see they sought out the radicals.

Also, WHO was fantasizing??? We heard the same rumors everyone else heard, no one was having any FANTASIES...

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 9:23 PM

America loves a winner!

kooki, you're doing it again. I clearly explained WHY the 'body armor' info was " bought ". It was what panicked eye witnesses, untrained in the gear, THOUGHT they saw.

Good grief psycho queen, you really are a full blown nutter.

A REPORTER who only knows what they're told, at the time they interview a scared survivor, rushes what they have to their news outlet, and sends the story off to be picked up. After MANY HOURS, when the jihad couple are found, die in a shoot out, and cops have searched their vehicle for explosives, and THEN checked their bodies, it becomes evident that ammo vests are NOT kevlar gear, and so the correction can be reported.

Seriously, of what value , and to whom , would " making up" a crazy story about armored vests benefit ANYONE ???

NO ONE ! That's who !

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 9:28 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Wish

So, apparently you don't just skip past lots and lots and LOTS of words when I post, you skip past words in news items too:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-syed-farook-had-traveled-t
o-saudi-arabia-married-appeared-to-live-american-dream-co-workers-say-20151202-story.html
... a new wife he had met online.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/12030481/Sy
ed-Farook-what-we-know-about-the-San-Bernardino-gunman.html
Farook, born in Illinois, had met his wife online and in 2013 ...

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/us/syed-farook-tashfeen-malik-mass-shoot
ing-profile/
He got to know Malik through an online dating service ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting-syed-rizw
an-farook.html
Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik met online ...

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 9:37 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"kooki, you're doing it again. I clearly explained WHY the 'body armor' info was " bought ". It was what panicked eye witnesses, untrained in the gear, THOUGHT they saw."

And, little rapey, because it fit your fantasies OF COURSE YOU BELIEVED IT! Without hesitation, without reservation, without consideration, without waiting for more detailed accounts or evidence to come in. Not a single thought passed in your brain between reading and believing.

But the things I posted? You're not even going to consider them. And why not? Because they don't conform to your fantasies.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 10:20 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"kooki, you're doing it again. I clearly explained WHY the 'body armor' info was " bought ". It was what panicked eye witnesses, untrained in the gear, THOUGHT they saw."

And, little rapey, because it fit your fantasies OF COURSE YOU BELIEVED IT! Without hesitation, without reservation, without consideration, without waiting for more detailed accounts or evidence to come in. Not a single thought passed in your brain between reading and believing.

But the things I posted? You're not even going to consider them. And why not? Because they don't conform to your fantasies.

What fantasy ? How does a bullet proof vest in any way fulfill this made up 'fantasy' ??? She was a radical Muslim. That's a fact. It wasn't " stress " that made this guy and his wife murder innocent Americans, as you wanted to believe.

Attack in San Bernadino. Yep , bought that one.
12, and then 14 people shot to death. Yep. Sold me on that.
21 people wounded. Yep, believed that too.

Wanna know what I didn't believe ?

It was work place violence.
It was postpartum depression by the wifey, which apparently was so bad, it affected the husband as well !
It was likely some right wing militia group, waging war on a govt facility.
It was an attack some how related to Planned Parenthood, which was apparently located 1.5 miles away.

Nope. Didn't buy ANY of those lines, even though the MSM ( manily CNN and msnbc ) put those over the airwaves as " news ".

kooki - you're nuts. You're a mental waste case, so of course I don't buy into your inane ramblings.
Few here do.

Quote:
kookie said: I don't think it was primarily driven by radical Islam, or political. I think he's a man who just snapped.

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 11:11 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

What you believe ... you skipped this one: "They wore body armor and go-pro cams."

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, December 5, 2015 11:20 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I see you made a very common mistake. You think when someone shoots their coworkers is when they 'snap'. But that happens long before the final act. Before they pull the trigger, before they walk in, before they get their guns out of the car, before they drive there, before they put their guns in the car, before they load them ... they're already on a course of action. They snap when they choose that course.

And btw, thanks for being the usual lying asshole you always are, little rapey. Because NO ONE said it was JUST workplace violence.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, December 6, 2015 12:08 AM

Something is wrong with her... She's going around in circles and I don't think she knows it...

Little too much

???

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Sunday, December 6, 2015 12:25 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Personal snark and not a hint of topic?

OK.

I can see trying to have a fact-based discussion with you is going to be pointless. When you get back to the topic I might be around. Till then -

Bye.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, December 6, 2015 8:58 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

And btw, thanks for being the usual lying asshole you always are, little rapey. Because NO ONE said it was JUST workplace violence.

How am I 'lying' ?

You're truly working with a dented brain.

They said, early on in the coverage, that it was work place violence.

Yes, they did. They said that because it was being offered, almost exclusively, more than wanting to utter Farooq's name ( remember, they walked that one back, after reporting that it didn't " wash out ", because it didn't match with any watch lists. I heard the name reported first as Sayeed Farooq, which is getting his first and last name reversed, but regardless, they didn't want to release the name for OBVIOUS reasons )

I know, too much for you to follow.

Point is, multiple times it was reported as possibly being work place violence.

Deal w/ it.

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Sunday, December 6, 2015 9:48 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

IN THIS THREAD, ya moroon!

My post, specifically ... I said it was BOTH workplace violence AND terrorism.

Politically/ religiously-motivated terrorists tend to attack symbolic targets .... government buildings (like Timothy McVeigh) or Planned Parenthood clinics (like Robert Dear). Once you weed out the truly crazy, who really can't tell the difference between the voices in their heads and reality, you wind up with unstable people who think it's OK to use violence to push their "ism". In this case, while the shooters felt entirely estranged from their society, the one point of contact that they had with "everyone else" was the husband's workplace, and that seemed to have pushed him over the edge more than helped. So he focused on the people he worked with. It's both.

I don't think that motivations can always be assigned that are so clear-cut anyway. MOST people act from mixed motivations, and I think its something of a fantasy that you can parse a person's motivations into one emotion. "Isms" which represent a small minority and which promote violence have a tendency to attract the deviants/misfits/unstable people who are prone to violence. (The reason why I qualify that so heavily is that entire cultures have promoted either all-against-all random internal violence, or specific violence against a targeted group. In that case, you don't need to be a deviant to be violent and most people will think of you as a "good guy" even if you participate in or tacitly approve of violence every single day. That's because it's socially acceptable.)

The only reason to even think about "why" someone did something bad is to try to figure out how to prevent it. Crazy people tend to be obvious on a day-to-day basis. Organized GROUPS (gangs, drug cartels etc) also tend to be obvious. But what about violence-prone, disaffected individuals?

IMHO there's NO surveillance deep enough to ferret out these loose cannons. It's much easier to detect groups of a dozen people or more, because there is more coordination/communication going on. Detecting one, two, or three people ... people who don't come off as "crazy" ... would require deep and extensive surveillance of everyone, you'd almost have to profile everyone on the internet and EVEN THEN you probably wouldn't find those particular needles in the very large haystack (of needles) that you just created for yourself. If Obama is going to use this particular attack as an excuse for yet more surveillance, I think people really should stop being panicked and put their collective foot down.

As far as gun control is concerned, our gun control laws would have to be a lot more like Germany's in order to be effective.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, December 6, 2015 4:58 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Wish, Rap, Jane

How about we have an agreement?

Wish, you are deeply, deeply vested in the notion that the innocent wife was in thrall to that violent, fanatical brute of a husband.

Rap, what can I say? You have a whole list of beliefs, which you state a things you DON'T accept (beliefs, which, by definition, are ideas you hold to be true despite the lack of supporting facts, or despite existing facts to the contrary.)

And Jane, we already know you think all Muslims are a problem.

So how about we all - me too - agree to shift our ideas to conform to the facts* of this incident, and to which we apply a degree of logic? (* facts are claims for which there exists conclusive evidence) It shouldn't be too much of a stretch to agree to accept all available facts. And it shouldn't be too onerous to change thoughts to align with reality. Both things seem extremely healthy to me. Let's leave the name-calling and snark behind, and tone down the biases, the angst and the rhetoric, and have a reasoned discussion about facts.

How about it?

Wanna know what I didn't believe ?
It was work place violence.
It was postpartum depression by the wifey, which apparently was so bad, it affected the husband as well !
It was likely some right wing militia group, waging war on a govt facility.
It was an attack some how related to Planned Parenthood, which was apparently located 1.5 miles away.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, December 7, 2015 10:25 PM

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Monday, December 7, 2015 11:18 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Rap, what can I say? You have a whole list of beliefs, which you state a things you DON'T accept (beliefs, which, by definition, are ideas you hold to be true despite the lack of supporting facts, or despite existing facts to the contrary.)

You're confusing belief w/ faith. Yes, I BELIEVED the news accounts as they were reported to the nation and world, until such a time when there was a reason given to NO LONGER believe. As more facts came in, a clearer picture of what took place did and continues to develop. And is sometimes the case, it's worse than we thought.

A lot worse.

Trust me when I tell you, I have zero faith.

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Monday, December 7, 2015 11:57 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Looking over the NYTimes, LATimes, BBC, CNN and Reuters, I have to say the reporting is pretty scrambled.

Farook used to go target shooting. And he, or he and his wife (stories vary) went within days of the attack. (For context, a lot of people here in SoCal - and many of the people I work with - like to go target shooting. It's surprisingly common here compared to other places I've lived.)
Marquez who was Farook's friend bought two semi-automatic 'weapons' three years ago but gave them to Farook at some unspecified time.
And Malik attended a religious school but dropped out to get married.
Currently the FBI says they have no indication the attack was ordered by, coordinated with, or involved foreign jihadis; the FBI seems to be leaning toward the idea the two were 'self-radicalized'.

I'm not finding any timeline for the 'quite some time' part of this statement, as most of what's in the news goes back 2 or 3 years at most. "We have learned and believe that both subjects were radicalized and had been for quite some time." For me, 'quite some time' would go back many years, not just a couple.

Rap, does that track with your information?

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, December 8, 2015 6:48 PM

http://pamelageller.com/2015/12/san-bernardino-jihadis-family-facebook
-photos-and-troubling-facts.html/

https://twitter.com/WalidShoebat/status/674339710144135168

http://www.outloudamerica.com/the-face-of-jihad/

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/12/father-of-san-bernardino-shooting-su
spect-says-hes-very-religious-muslim

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/saudi-columnist-calls-
jihad-in-syria-jihad-for-satan-and-calls-for-a-ban-on-muslims-killing-muslims-but-no-mention-of-non-muslims/

Fmr. FBI Counterterrorism Agent: We’ve Received ‘Nearly Zero Help’ from U.S. Muslim Community Since 9/11

Guandolo said he doesn’t necessarily agree with the idea that “we have to work with the Muslim community in order to solve this problem here in the United States,” but “if you are going to work with the Muslim community, the U.S. government” should not be “exclusively working with Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood entities without exception” like it is doing now. Guandolo named the Muslim Public Affairs Council, the Islamic Society of North America, the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), and the Muslim American Society.

“Those are who they’re working with and others that are Muslim Brotherhood or ideologically directly aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood,” he added, pointing out that Attorney General Loretta Lynch spoke at the Muslim Advocates—another such organization—last Thursday.

Guandolo said Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson is speaking about Muslim civil rights on Monday evening at The Adams Center in Sterling, Virginia, which is associated with the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA). He said evidence presented at the Holy Land terrorism-funding trial revealed that ISNA is “the nucleus of the Muslim Brotherhood here” and “directly funds Hamas leaders and organizations overseas.” He also pointed out that the Holy Land Foundation, the largest Islamic charity in America, was a “Hamas organization at the time it was indicted and Hamas is an inherent part of the Muslim Brotherhood.”

He said it will be nearly impossible to so successfully combat terrorists “so long as the U.S. government… emboldens and empowers Muslim Brotherhood organizations here.”

“If you expect FBI and others to aggressively pursue them, it’s not going to happen because our leaders — President, Secretary of State, national security adivsers, generals at the Pentagon—are are turning to their advisers who in fact are Muslim Brotherhood leaders to say what should we and what shouldn’t we do,” he said.

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Tuesday, December 8, 2015 8:20 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

What does that quote have to do with this incident, specifically?

BTW, do you think that all Christians should be targeted because of the actions of the Christian Planned Parenthood shooter Robert Dear?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/robert-lewis-dear-planned-parentho
od_56600928e4b08e945fee21d0
Planned Parenthood Shooting Suspect Reportedly Targeted A Clinic Before

CHARLESTON, S.C. (AP) — The man accused of killing three people at a Colorado Planned Parenthood clinic left a decades-long trail of broken marriages, scant social connections and a reputation for religious zealotry that didn't match his yen for gambling and extramarital affairs.

New court documents and interviews reveal Robert Lewis Dear as an occasionally violent, fundamentalist loner who was known to nurse a grudge. He had one for at least 20 years against abortion providers, going so far as to put glue in the locks of a clinic in Charleston years earlier, a common protest technique among activists trying to shut down abortion clinics.

But still unknown is what caused Dear, 57, to escalate from petty vandalism to the fusillade he is accused of unleashing at the Colorado Springs office, where a law enforcement official said he rambled about "no more baby parts" after his arrest. Colorado Springs police have refused to disclose a motive for Dear's violence, but there's mounting evidence that Dear was deeply concerned about abortion.

If Robert Dear doesn't trigger angst against radical Christians, would it help to include other actions by that group? How about far-right militias?

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-ex
treme-christians-and-far-right-white-men

10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men

1. Wisconsin Sikh Temple massacre, Aug. 5, 2012. The virulent, neocon-fueled Islamophobia that has plagued post-9/11 America has not only posed a threat to Muslims, it has had deadly consequences for people of other faiths, including Sikhs. Sikhs are not Muslims; the traditional Sikh attire, including their turbans, is different from traditional Sunni, Shiite or Sufi attire. But to a racist, a bearded Sikh looks like a Muslim. ... On Aug. 5, 2012, white supremacist Wade Michael Page used a semiautomatic weapon to murder six people during an attack on a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin.

2. The murder of Dr. George Tiller, May 31, 2009. Imagine that a physician had been the victim of an attempted assassination by an Islamic jihadist in 1993, and received numerous death threats from al-Qaeda after that, before being murdered by an al-Qaeda member. Neocons, Fox News and the Christian Right would have had a field day. A physician was the victim of a terrorist killing that day, but neither the terrorist nor the people who inflamed the terrorist were Muslims. Dr. George Tiller, who was shot and killed by anti-abortion terrorist Scott Roeder on May 31, 2009, was a victim of Christian Right terrorism, not al-Qaeda.

Tiller had a long history of being targeted for violence by Christian Right terrorists. In 1986, his clinic was firebombed. Then, in 1993, Tiller was shot five times by female Christian Right terrorist Shelly Shannon (now serving time in a federal prison) but survived that attack. Given that Tiller had been the victim of an attempted murder and received countless death threats after that, Fox News would have done well to avoid fanning the flames of unrest. Instead, Bill O’Reilly repeatedly referred to him as “Tiller the baby killer."

4. The murder of Dr. John Britton, July 29, 1994. To hear the Christian Right tell it, there is no such thing as Christian terrorism. Tell that to the victims of the Army of God, a loose network of radical Christianists with a long history of terrorist attacks on abortion providers. One Christian Right terrorist with ties to the Army of God was Paul Jennings Hill, who was executed by lethal injection on Sept. 3, 2003 for the murders of abortion doctor John Britton and his bodyguard James Barrett. Hill shot both of them in cold blood and expressed no remorse whatsoever; he insisted he was doing’s God’s work and has been exalted as a martyr by the Army of God.

5 The Centennial Olympic Park bombing, July 27, 1996. Paul Jennings Hill is hardly the only Christian terrorist who has been praised by the Army of God; that organization has also praised Eric Rudolph, who is serving life without parole for a long list of terrorist attacks committed in the name of Christianity. Rudolph is best known for carrying out the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta during the 1996 Summer Olympics—a blast that killed spectator Alice Hawthorne and wounded 111 others. Hawthorne wasn’t the only person Rudolph murdered: his bombing of an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama in 1998 caused the death of Robert Sanderson (a Birmingham police officer and part-time security guard) and caused nurse Emily Lyons to lose an eye.

Rudolph’s other acts of Christian terrorism include bombing the Otherwise Lounge (a lesbian bar in Atlanta) in 1997 and an abortion clinic in an Atlanta suburb in 1997. Rudolph was no lone wolf: he was part of a terrorist movement that encouraged his violence. And the Army of God continues to exalt Rudolph as a brave Christian who is doing God’s work.

read more at the link

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, December 9, 2015 2:39 PM

"Comey said they were talking about jihad and martyrdom before they became engaged and started living together."

This in the news today.

They were both self-brainwashed, it WAS Jihad, and I guaran-damn-tee momma knew all about it and we need to send them people packin'.

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Wednesday, December 9, 2015 5:22 PM

America loves a winner!

To in any way try to equivocate Jihadists , who have systematically slaughtered Muslims , Christians, and other non-believers, while enslaving 1000's of women and forcing them to marry and become sex slaves, is the height of lunacy.

In no sane part of the waking world can anyone refer to the lone Colo.Springs shooter as a " Christian " and being on par w/ those who butcher in the name of Allah, and be taken seriously.

It's entirely nonsensical,and not worthy of further response.

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Wednesday, December 9, 2015 11:50 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Comey said they were talking about jihad and martyrdom before they became engaged and started living together."

It just goes to prove there's someone for everyone. And on a non-trivial level, she wasn't an innocent victim either.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, December 9, 2015 11:59 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

To in any way try to equivocate Jihadists ...

I'm not actually sure what you mean here, since the word 'equivocate' doesn't make sense to me in this context.

In no sane part of the waking world can anyone refer to the lone Colo.Springs shooter as a " Christian " ...

He seems to think he is.

... and being on par w/ those who butcher in the name of Allah ...

You didn't see the multiple references to the multiple Christian terrorists who killed multiple people and call themselves 'The Army of God'?

It's entirely nonsensical ...

Why? Radicals, killing people in the name of religion - it seems the same to me. I hope you can tell me specifically what's different, above and beyond the name of the religion.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, December 11, 2015 10:49 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

There seems to be no more new information, just repetition of old items. They were radicalized for 'quite some time' which seems to mean 2 or 3 years. Their friend Marquez seems to have been a half-hearted accomplice, willing to go along - up to a point - but not really interested in carrying anything out, or even being a tag-along to it.

Farook and Malik used some kind of encryption (though the more computer savvy people I know use it all the time just on general principles).

One thing that I found interesting is that the government was able to go back in time and get the text of their communications. Which means the servers aren't merely transit devices, they store and file away ALL communication that goes through them.

I hope it makes everyone feel safe - to know that Uncle Sam is keeping e-tabs on everything you e-do.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, December 11, 2015 10:49 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

There seems to be no more new information, just repetition of old items. They were radicalized for 'quite some time' which seems to mean 2 or 3 years. Their friend Marquez seems to have been a half-hearted accomplice, willing to go along - up to a point - but not really interested in carrying anything out, or even being a tag-along to it.

Farook and Malik used some kind of encryption (though the more computer savvy people I know use it all the time just on general principles).

One thing that I found interesting is that the government was able to go back in time and get the text of their communications. Which means the servers aren't merely transit devices, they store and file away ALL communication that goes through them.

I hope it makes everyone feel safe - to know that private business and Uncle Sam are in cahoots keeping e-tabs on everything you e-do.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, December 12, 2015 12:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

I hope it makes everyone feel safe - to know that Uncle Sam is keeping e-tabs on everything you e-do.

Hope they like that pic I sent hubbs

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Saturday, December 12, 2015 8:34 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

And - self-censorship begins?

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, December 12, 2015 8:40 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

This was in the news a while ago, but it took me a while to get back to it ...

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/opinions/bergen-san-bernardino-terror-at
tack-explain/index.html

An influential study of the radicalization process was published by the New York Police Department in 2007. The report, "Radicalization in the West: The Homegrown Threat" http://www.nypdshield.org/public/SiteFiles/documents/NYPD_Report-Radic
alization_in_the_West.pdf laid out a taxonomy of jihadist terrorists in the West: "unremarkable" male Muslims between the ages of 15 and 35, generally well-educated and middle class, many of whom grew up as nonobservant Muslims or were converts to Islam. Many of the plotters had no links to formal terrorist organizations.

Some kind of personal crisis (the loss of a job, the experience of racism, moral outrage caused by the way Muslims were being treated in international conflicts, or the death of a close family member) provided a "cognitive opening" for a turn to Salafism -- a fundamentalist form of Sunni Islam -- beliefs, demonstrated by wearing traditional Islamic clothing and growing beards.

This was not in itself alarming; these were simply fundamentalist practices. In the next stage of their radicalization, however, as their views became more politicized, the militants separated themselves from society, spending more and more time only with similar, radicalized individuals.

The report describes the final stage before people turn to terrorism as "jihadization": the point at which a militant decides to perform jihad. This often takes the form of travel abroad for training.

After trips he made to Saudi Arabia in 2013 and 2014, Farook seemed to become more devout, according to co-workers who noted he had grown a long beard. In Saudi Arabia, he also married Malik, who presumably shared his fundamentalist religious views to the point that she was willing to effectively commit suicide alongside him. Malik, originally of Pakistani origin, arrived in the United States on a visa as Farook's fiancee. She later became a lawful permanent resident.

Could the trip to Saudi Arabia have been Farook's "jihadization?" We don't know at this point, but his trips there seemed to have turned him in a more fundamentalist direction and it was also where he met and married his future partner-in-crime.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, December 13, 2015 12:51 PM

Quote:

This in the news today.

Turn off your sh1*tty tv, its all about spin and anyways its about 2 weeks behind the times

Here's another one to get you ahead of the curve, read about mohammed's child abuse in the Koran, how muhammed had sex with animals, dead people and his pedophile actions against children.....read their books, the Quran and more and educate yourself on their 'culture'

Muhammad was a violent sexual pervert, who formed a false religion that has more follower than your Jimjones temple, a dumbass billion followers today. Muslims who practice Islam have been prepared and are held in reserve at this hour to serve as God’s servants, instruments of war from His armory, to punish a disobedient world, and in particular, rebellious stiff-necked apostate Jews.

Pervert Muhammad married eleven or thirteen women. Historians sanitize this filth by jabbering about things like “needs of the tribe,” politics, compassion and “affairs of the heart.”

When he was 25, Muhammad married his wealthy employer, a 40-year-old merchant named Khadijah. He was her gigolo; he used her wealth to dally in dreams and pretend he had been told things by God. When he was 40 he claimed to have been visited by the angel Gabriel who revealed to him a verse from the Qur’an, after which he claimed to be a prophet. He spent long hours “meditating” and “speculating” about the creation. He claimed a series of visions occurred while he was hanging out in caves and in the hills and ravines near Mecca.

After Khadijah died, Muhammad married Sawda bint Zam’a, 3rd wife Aisha and 4th wife Umm Salam. Aisha was six when she was betrothed to Muhammed; the marriage was consummated when she was nine or ten. In later years she slipped off to look for an allegedly “lost” wedding necklace, giving rise to claims she was up to mischief with some man. Not to worry; Muhammed got some verses written and out into the public mainstream bespeaking her innocence and condemning anyone who said otherwise as slanderers.

After killing her husband, during the Muslim war with Mecca, Muhammad married Fifth wife Hafsa bint Umar when she was 20 (he was 56). Similarly, after she was widowed at the battle of Badr, Muhammed married Zaynab bint Khuzayma.

When Abu Salamah died in battle, Muhammad married his widow, Umm Salama Hin bitn Abi Umayya. In 626 his eight wife Raihanah bint Zaid was among those enslaved after the defeat of the Banu Quarayza tribe, and she became Muhammad’s concubine or wife.

Later, Muhammad married his cousin, ninth wife Zaynab bint Jahsh, after a lot of conflict related to her marriage and divorce with another man. Muhammad decided in favor of this marriage to break the taboo against incestuous marriages, by informing everyone the Qur’an indicated this marriage was a duty imposed on him by God.

After he took captives from a skirmish with the Banu Mustaliq, he married one named TEN Juwayriya bint al-Harith, which led to his new kinsmen being released from enslavement. Then he signed a peace treaty with his Meccan enemies, the Quraysh, and soon thereafter married the daughter of their leader, Eleventh 'wife' Abu Sufyan ibn Harb, all for reconciling with his opponents of course.

Muhammad sent a proposal for marriage to Ramlah bint Abi-Sufyan when he learned her husband had died. Then in 629, after the Battle of Khaybar, Muhammad freed Safiyya bint Huyayy, a noblewoman of the defeated Jewish tribe Banu Nadir, and proposed marriage. She accepted, so he married her as part of reconciliation with the Jewish tribe and a gesture of goodwill.
If these women got into a cat fight about how Muhammad was treating them – in particular how much time or attention each received from him – he made up new rules that he claimed were revelations from God, to keep them in line. When he died, he left word behind that no one could marry them according to God. He kept these women in little apartments adjacent to the mosque at Medina, and visited them in rounds day and night.

This was in between his warmongering, whereby he built an estate and army, which put in motion military expeditions that have influence still today. The only thing that made Muhammad a “prophet” was his military successes. In a single decade he fought eight major battles, led 18 raids, and planned 38 military operations. He revolutionized Arabian warfare and mobilized an army motivated by an ideology of holy war (jihad) and martyrdom (shahada). This transmitted to the West during the wars between Muslims and Christians in Spain and France, and gave the whore Roman Catholic Church an ideological justification for the Crusades. But for his success as a military commander, Islam would not have gained momentum leading to billion dumbass practitioners today, making it the second largest religion, and the conquest of the Byzantine and Persian empires by Arab armies would not have occurred. Muhammad transformed the armies of Arabia so his successors could use them to defeat the armies of Persia and Byzantium and establish the heartland of the empire of Islam.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/025-muhammads-sex-life.htm

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/10/was-muhammad-a-pedophile-
2808064.html

https://www.facebook.com/EricAllenBell/videos/794852787259378/

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Sunday, December 13, 2015 2:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Husband and wife death team, it seems. They wore body armor and go-pro cams.

Yep. Just your typical work place violence. Nothing to see here.

We also got the narrative blame all guns, blame all whites, blame Christmas, blame islamophobia, blame rednecks, blame all males, blame Bush, blame Europe, blame anti-immigration groups, blame everyone.....everyone except the terrorists with IEDs and guns and pipe bombs and body armor...bla bla, regressive leftism has truly brainwashed some of the masses

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Sunday, December 13, 2015 2:20 PM

And Santa Claus is worse because he EXCLUDES children who have been "naughty" from getting presents. He even has a list he checks TWICE!

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Sunday, December 13, 2015 2:29 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"who formed a false religion"

*ALL* religions demand you accept all of their tenets on faith - from how the universe came to be to what you should eat on which days. To question *ANY* religion is heresy, in its teachings.

The Aztecs believed in mass human sacrifice. The ancient Israelites practiced polygamy, and - oh, yeah - stoned people to death for infractions. And for the modern Jews of today, and the majority of so-called Christian who ignore the new testament in favor of the old, they would have to adhere to the many other things they comfortably ignore:

The only reason our current religion gets along with our capitalist/ mass consumer society is because we ignore what it tells us to do. Give up all you have ... love your neighbor as yourself ... let he who is without sin ...

Why you pick on one particular religion as being 'false' is beyond me. It's not as if any others are based on testable hypothesis. And it's not as if they aren't riddled with things we have to ignore to live they way we prefer.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, December 15, 2015 1:55 AM

The problem is and always has been AGENDA!!

The last few posts here demonstrate that.

Everyone has an agenda for hate, for life, for the children, for the environment...Everyone thinks their ideas are novel and can change the world.

Hate has to be personal for a majority of people to do ANYTHING together.

Unfortunately, when people get together, LORDY do I get scared

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Tuesday, December 15, 2015 10:50 AM

All Los Angeles schools closed over terror threat

you have seen this one?

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Tuesday, December 15, 2015 12:50 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Everyone has an agenda for hate, for life, for the children, for the environment...Everyone thinks their ideas are novel and can change the world."

If I have an agenda it's a very narrow one - for the children in MY family. I'm not sure I think my ideas are novel. And I'm not sure I think I can change the world with them. But change the world we must, if the children in MY family are going to have a reasonable chance at a life that's not pure misery. We NEED to solve global warming. We NEED to solve the insane distribution of wealth and power. We NEED to make the system work for the benefit of ordinary people, and to ensure an infinitely sustainable future. Otherwise the children in MY family will have very dire lives.

ALWAYS HAVE AN EXIT PLAN.

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Friday, December 18, 2015 12:08 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Just noting that no new official - and relevant - information has come out. It's pretty much status quo.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, December 22, 2015 11:50 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

No additional information has emerged. Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik didn't seem to have been either taking orders or getting instruction from international terrorists. They seem to have been 'self-radicalized'. Their friend and half-hearted supporter gave Farook 2 guns and talked about thinking about a terrorist act, but appeared to do nothing to further it. Their history of 'radicalism' seems to go back 3 years.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, January 11, 2016 3:10 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

No new relevant facts in the news.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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