REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A Republican talking sense?

POSTED BY: JO753
UPDATED: Monday, November 30, 2015 09:50
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Friday, August 14, 2015 9:34 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr

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Friday, August 14, 2015 10:22 PM

ELVISCHRIST





And he will be roundly attacked and dismissed by the wing-nut neo-conservatives here. Mark my words.

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Saturday, August 15, 2015 9:20 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The Republicans need to explain a chart showing the average rate of economic growth under each president since the Second World War.
www.princeton.edu/~mwatson/papers/Presidents_Blinder_Watson_Nov2013.pd
f



Princeton University economists Alan Blinder and Mark Watson note that when a Democrat was in the Oval Office, the average rate of growth was 4.4 percent. Under Republicans, the average rate was just 2.5 percent.

It's not just broad measures of economic growth, either, Blinder and Watson observe. Industrial production increased at an average rate of 5.6 percent under Democrats, compared to 1.8 percent under Republicans. The unemployment rate under Republicans averaged 6 percent, compared to just 5.6 percent under Democrats. The average return on the stock market has been 8.1 percent under Democrats, and 2.7 percent under Republicans.

You might be thinking that even if the economy as a whole does worse under Republican presidents, the wealthy do better, since Republicans tend to favor low-tax policies on the wealthy. That's not true either, though. As the political scientist Larry Bartels shows in this chart, things have been better for Americans under Democrats, no matter how much money you make.
www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/07/24/obamas-uphill-s
truggle-against-economic-inequality
/

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Saturday, August 15, 2015 10:32 AM

WHOZIT


Spare me YOUR LIES! Over 93 million able body people are unemployed in Obama's America, FACT! People on food stamps have doubled under Obama to over 40 million, FACT! The unemployment rate has dropped because fewer people are looking for jobs, FACT! So spare me your bullshit charts are story's from pinko websites and MSNBC, no one believes your lies and phoney propaganda anymore. Just admit you have to lie to pass you job killing programs.

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Saturday, August 15, 2015 12:18 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Thats a great impression uv a frothing at the mouth Fox eko chamber rezident! I had to back away from my screen to avoid the spittle!

You were doing an impression, rite?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Saturday, August 15, 2015 1:28 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
Spare me YOUR LIES!

Republicans are such good sports -- always telling jokes. Now let's get serious. Consider the track of unemployment under two presidents. One is lauded as the ultimate economic hero and savior; the other reviled as an economic failure, who killed jobs by being nice to poor people and insulting job creators. The chart compares their records.


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, August 15, 2015 1:53 PM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
Spare me YOUR LIES!

Republicans are such good sports -- always telling jokes. Now let's get serious. Consider the track of unemployment under two presidents. One is lauded as the ultimate economic hero and savior; the other reviled as an economic failure, who killed jobs by being nice to poor people and insulting job creators. The chart compares their records.


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



The "numbers" for unemployment are down because people have stopped looking for work, over 93 million able body people are unemployed in Obamas America. Believe it or not (I don't care what you believe) the trucking industry needs drivers, there is a shortage of office workers and they are begging for people to work at seafood processing plants in Alaska. These are good paying jobs, but you instead of filling those jobs, you libs want to pay burger flippers $15 dollars an hour. Spare me your filth lies.

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Saturday, August 15, 2015 2:18 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

The "numbers" for unemployment are down because people have stopped looking for work, over 93 million able body people are unemployed in Obamas America. Believe it or not (I don't care what you believe) the trucking industry needs drivers, there is a shortage of office workers and they are begging for people to work at seafood processing plants in Alaska. These are good paying jobs, but you instead of filling those jobs, you libs want to pay burger flippers $15 dollars an hour.



That 93 million number is quite misleading, even if it's technically true. That includes, I'd wager, all students, all retirees, all disabled folks, all those laid off by the "job creators" who "created" jobs overseas and pocketed the bonus for being such great CEOs.

As well, libs don't want to pay burger flippers $15 an hour. We want to pay EVERYBODY a minimum of $15 an hour.

Instead of worrying why a "burger flipper" could be paid so much, maybe you should start asking why you're willing to work for so little.

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Saturday, August 15, 2015 2:43 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
These are good paying jobs, but you instead of filling those jobs, you libs want to pay burger flippers $15 dollars an hour. Spare me your filth lies.

whozit is sensitive. It might be the thin skin of a tightwad.

The Washington Post informed me of yet another looming labor shortage to blame on Obama:
Quote:

There's a growing problem that chefs and restaurateurs are talking about more these days.

Good cooks are getting harder to come by. Not the head kitchen honchos, depicted in Food Network reality shows, who fine-tune menus, and orchestrate the dinner rush, but the men and women who are fresh out of culinary school and eager to earn their chops. The shortage of able kitchen hands is affecting chefs in Chicago....It's an issue in New York as well....And it extends to restaurants out West, where a similar pinch is being felt. Seattle is coping with the same dilemma. San Francisco, too.

....One of the clearest obstacles to hiring a good cook, let alone someone willing to work the kitchen these days, is that living in this country's biggest cities is increasingly unaffordable. In New York, for instance, where an average cook can expect to make somewhere between $10 and $12 per hour....

www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/08/12/the-crippling-probl
em-people-who-eat-at-restaurants-havent-noticed-but-chefs-are-freaking-out-about
/

Let's just stop right there. We've seen this movie before. What's really happening, apparently, is that there's a shortage of skilled people willing to work lousy hours and face long commutes in return for $10 to $12 per hour.

Offer them, say, $15 per hour, and who knows? Maybe there are plenty of good entry-level cooks available. This would raise your total cost of running the restaurant by, oh, 2 percent or so. (Back-of-envelope guess based on kitchen labor cost of 15 percent and entry-level cooks making up a third of that. If 5 percent of your cost base gets a 40 percent raise, that's about a 2 percent total increase.) But it's not like restaurants are competing with China. They're competing with other restaurants nearby that have the same problem. If the price of a good cook is going up, it's going to affect everyone.

I tire of reading stories like this. Tell me what happens when employers offer more money. If they still can't find qualified workers, then maybe there's a real problem. If they haven't even tried it, then maybe the problem isn't quite as dire as they're making it out to be.

Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:

Believe it or not (I don't care what you believe) the trucking industry needs drivers . . . Spare me your filth lies.

And the trucker shortage is Obama's fault? I don't see why when truckers have others to blame:
Quote:

Just last week it took me 13 hours to get loaded at a certain shipper in Yuma, Arizona. This is totally uncalled for. Right now, as I type this, I've been waiting for 18 hours to get loaded. This customer does not pay detention time, so I am sitting here for free. Many customers, because of their poor practices, end up indirectly making me stay awake for 24 hours or more. I never expected to have so many 24hr days. There are a lot of things that are unfair in this industry.

It is not a glamorous life and we are vastly underpaid for what we do. As an OTR truck driver, I am away from home 4 to 6 weeks or more at a time. I then go home for 4 days before I get back on the road for another 4 to 6 weeks. It's a tough life, both mentally and physically. The standard of living we have is much lower than most Americans.

www.truckingtruth.com/trucking_blogs/Article-2406/my-first-year-as-a-t
ruck-driver

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Saturday, August 15, 2015 3:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
A Bush administration guy no less!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/14/1412044/-George-HW-Bush-econo
mist-shocked-Chris-Hayes-when-he-said-this-about-his-Republican-Party?detail=email


Careful.
A thread title like that will make people suspect you are not really actually deluded. You might lose your Libtard Card.

But your link proves that you have found an elitist who is critical of reasonable voters and candidates, doesn't like voters being allowed to vote for the best candidate, critical of leaders of the party he previously worked for, and somehow we should be surprised that you label him a Republican and also consider him reasonable. Shocking, I say, shocking.

Next you will explain that your favorite Republican is Richard Dreyfus.

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Saturday, August 15, 2015 3:49 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Next you will explain that your favorite Republican is Richard Dreyfus.

Richard Nixon is my favorite Republican, partly because he was exemplary of all the party believes in and partly because he is dead. Now it is your turn to say he was Republican in name only. A Rino, dare I say, a libtard compared to Trump.

Bush II is another of my favorite Republicans. Another Rino, another libtard compared to Trump. If only he were dead, he'd surpass Nixon in my heart.

Miss Piggy Ogles Nathan Fillion


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Saturday, August 15, 2015 5:06 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Zit - I hope you understand that unemployment has always been calculated that way and that every president takes advantage of that, both democrat and republican. It's not like it was changed just to make Obama look good. So you would be a lot less silly if you didn't point your finger at Obama specifically.

The figure you're looking for, btw is the 'labor force participation rate'.

Now, there are many different ways people estimate this number:





But you'll notice that the number really dropped in 2008 due to the global depression that started under, and was due in part to, Bush II.

Has Obama reversed the damage Bush II (and global leaders with similar policies) did? Only very slightly. But Bush II was one direct cause. Obama is merely the continuation of Bushy-Bushy.






SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 15, 2015 11:44 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER



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Sunday, August 16, 2015 7:47 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
One comment on that picture of Piggy and Nathan. Nathan needs a diet.

He absolutely needs that tummy to play a writer of mysteries and to do "research" for his celebrity diet and exercise book, which will be his first non-fiction "Richard Castle" book. www.amazon.com/Richard-Castle/e/B001HD1RBU/

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Sunday, August 16, 2015 3:09 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
A Bush administration guy no less!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/14/1412044/-George-HW-Bush-econo
mist-shocked-Chris-Hayes-when-he-said-this-about-his-Republican-Party?detail=email


Careful.
A thread title like that will make people suspect you are not really actually deluded. You might lose your Libtard Card.

But your link proves that you have found an elitist who is critical of reasonable voters and candidates, doesn't like voters being allowed to vote for the best candidate, critical of leaders of the party he previously worked for, and somehow we should be surprised that you label him a Republican and also consider him reasonable. Shocking, I say, shocking.

Next you will explain that your favorite Republican is Richard Dreyfus.





What did I say?

"And he will be roundly attacked and dismissed by the wing-nut neo-conservatives here. Mark my words."



You couldn't have played your part any better.



Are voters allowed to vote for the best candidate? The nation at large isn't. The voters at the national level are allowed to vote for the candidate who managed to get on the party'd nominating ticket, usually by winning a few non-representative outlier early-vote states that rarely choose the "best" candidate.

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Sunday, August 16, 2015 3:55 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Here's How to Talk Like Donald Trump

Back in 1996, Newt Gingrich wrote a memo that explained how to talk like Newt Gingrich. "That takes years of practice," he conceded up front, but he revealed that you could come close just by studying a list of his favorite words. Unfortunately, that was two decades ago and Gingrich is now a has-been. So what if you want to speak like Donald Trump? Well, that takes years of practice too. Still, you can come close just by studying a list of his go-to talking points.

So here's the list. Study it. And remember: it doesn't really matter what question you're asked. Whatever it is, just say a few words and then switch to any of these topics at random. There's no need to be subtle, either. Just switch gears. And don't worry if you've already said it. Just say it again. Telling people you're leading in the polls never gets old!

1) Our national debt is $19 trillion. We're going to be Greece on steroids! I want to get rid of this deficit.
2) I'd send Carl Icahn to China. He's a great negotiator.
3) I'll build a huge wall, the greatest wall ever, and Mexico will pay for it.
4) The Mexicans/Chinese/South Koreans are killing us. They're taking away all our jobs. Our leaders are so stupid.
5) I get along very well with Mexicans/Chinese/Putin/foreign leaders.
6) I'm leading in all the polls. All of them.
7) I cherish women. I have such respect for women.
8) We have to kick the hell out of ISIS and take all their oil.
9) Iran is getting $150 billion. That's ridiculous. Also: 24 days is ridiculous too.
10) I want a simpler tax plan. I want to make it great for the middle class.
11) Saudi Arabia makes a billion dollars a day.
12) We have to treat our vets better.
13) I would be so tough. You wouldn't believe how tough I would be.
14) I give money to everyone. And then they owe me favors. All the politicians are like that. It's a totally corrupt system.
15) We don't have time for political correctness.

Here's an example: What do you think about Planned Parenthood?

A Donald Trumpish reply: "Well, I hate abortion. And....you know, I cherish women. I have such respect for women. But if you really want to see poor treatment of women, just go to Iraq. They're beheading women! We have to kick the hell out of ISIS and take all their oil. It's the only way. You know, Saudi Arabia makes a billion dollars a day. They should be helping us fight ISIS. We can't afford to do it by ourselves. Our national debt is $19 trillion. We're going to be Greece on steroids! I want to get rid of this deficit."

The sad thing is that this isn't really a joke. It looks like one, I know. But if you read actual Trump answers to actual Trump questions, this is pretty much what they're like.

In any case, this is not an exhaustive list. And if you can't find something you think you can use, don't panic. Just attack. It doesn't really matter who. Megyn Kelly, Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush, Barack Obama, whatever. The more outrageous the better. Alternatively, do just the opposite: say that you love the people/organization in question and will support them totally. You'll be great to them!

Now you can talk like Donald Trump. You're welcome
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/08/heres-how-talk-donald-trump

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Sunday, August 16, 2015 11:58 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


OK, let me try it:

"Mr. 753, wut woud you do about ISIS?"

"Take away their money. You wont believ how fast I'll take their money and crush them! I'll hav investigatorz crawling all over middle-eastern banks looking for every penny. If we spent haf az much time doing that az Kerry spent giving away our tax dollarz to Iran, nobody will remember ISIS in a yir."

Any good?



----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Monday, August 17, 2015 4:18 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
How is he suppose to play Mal on line with that gut? I know it is 12 years or so later but with all the running and such. Not right.

Nathan can suck in his gut and look like Mal, but how can Trump suck his gut in enough to stop being a blowhard? And the way Trump acts in business is fundamentally wrong.

Trump actually thinks he has a moral obligation to spend his days finding ways to engage in profit-maximizing, rent-seeking, and loophole exploiting. This kind of “you should make as much money as possible through any legal means necessary” spirit is toxic to the kind of ethos that’s made capitalism successful. To have a culture that valorizes hard work you need to actually valorize hard work, not just money-making.

When I look at Trump or America today, what I see is a kind of run-amok ethic of moneymaking. The way Trump goes in and out of bankruptcy should make people pause. The old Calvinist idea about money was that hard work, discipline, and prudence were moral virtues. They also lead to personal prosperity. So prosperity should be seen as something likely to flow from virtuous behavior. What matters is the hard work, the discipline, and the prudence. Cutting corners and lying to make a buck is not virtuous. Earning a multi-million dollar salary to deliver below-average performance as the CEO is not virtuous. Spending your days and nights dreaming up smart regulatory arbitrage schemes is not virtuous. In terms of what it says about your personal virtue, if you’re going to earn your keep identifying and exploiting loopholes in the legal framework, Trump may as well just go out and break the law.

http://kastep.deviantart.com/art/Firefly-554277451

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Monday, August 17, 2015 8:26 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Aw, my heart missed a beat

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Monday, August 17, 2015 9:04 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Aw, my heart missed a beat

What are you excited about? That bombastic Trump, with his shady business deals & ethics, would be better than full time criminal Mal for President? I'd be happier with Summer Glau for President.
www.fireflyfans.net/bluesun.aspx?bid=20996

http://www.fireflyfans.net/bluesun.aspx?bid=20472

http://www.fireflyfans.net/bluesun.aspx?bid=20473

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Monday, August 17, 2015 1:21 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:

And for Trump, I knew that guy was an idiot years ago but if you all in the States want to do something stupid again the rest of the world can't stop you. But do a little thinking before and maybe golly gee whiz, you WON'T.

They have thought about it. Trump is the only Republican running who actually agrees with the GOP base. "They're gonna cut Social Security. They're gonna cut Medicare. They're gonna cut Medicaid," he said on Fox & Friends. "I'm the one saying that's saying I'm not gonna do that!"

And that's what makes a candidate like Trump potentially dangerous. On immigration, Trump holds a hard-line position that the Republican Party establishment has tried to mute, and so far Republican voters are loving it. On Social Security and Medicare, Trump — who opposes cuts — is closer to Republican voters than the party establishment is. On free trade deals, Trump shares a skepticism held by about half of Republican voters, but that's usually suppressed by the party's powerful business wing.

Most candidates who tried to stack this many heterodoxies would be quickly squelched by the party establishment. But Trump isn't beholden to the GOP for money, staff, power, or press attention. That frees him to take positions that Republican voters like but Republican Party elites loathe.

That's going to put the rest of the Republican field — all those candidates who were playing by the establishment's rules — in a very tough position. - www.vox.com/2015/8/17/9164241/donald-trump-issues

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Monday, August 17, 2015 11:53 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I think you are rite, 2nd. Its a little scary.

I like the comic!

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Sunday, August 23, 2015 4:51 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I rote a Daily Kos 'dairy' about Trump:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/23/1414804/-President-Trump?show
All=yes


You'll like it! I did it in old fashioned english! Only needed to look up 'sabotage'!

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Monday, November 30, 2015 8:50 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
about Trump:



here's one

possible that all of these people, as Kim LaCapria suggests, are suffering from false memory syndrome??

Memories?

Quote:


Memory loss site
It may be true that seeing is believing, but we can be dead wrong about what we think we remember seeing-sometimes with tragic consequences. Just ask one of the more-than 100 people who have been freed from prison after the minutest trace of DNA evidence totally refuted the "iron-clad" eyewitness evidence that led to the prison sentence in the first place.

Eyewitness identification, in which witnesses to a crime pick potential perpetrators out of a lineup, is a widely accepted form of evidence. In police work, eyewitness ID's are critical to solving many crimes. But psychologists have amassed powerful evidence that eyewitness identifications are far less reliable than many people may think. And they believe that changes can and should be made in police lineup procedures to reduce the number of false identifications-especially those leading to long prison sentences for rape and murder.

Ted talks
So what's wrong? Straightforward, fair trial, full investigation. Oh yes, no gun was ever found. No vehicle was ever identified as being the one in which the shooter had extended his arm, and no person was ever charged with being the driver of the shooter's vehicle. And Mr. Carrillo's alibi? Which of those parents here in the room might not lie concerning the whereabouts of your son or daughter in an investigation of a killing?

03:41
Sent to prison, adamantly insisting on his innocence, which he has consistently for 21 years.

03:52
So what's the problem? The problems, actually, for this kind of case come manyfold from decades of scientific research involving human memory. First of all, we have all the statistical analyses from the Innocence Project work, where we know that we have, what, 250, 280 documented cases now where people have been wrongfully convicted and subsequently exonerated, some from death row, on the basis of later DNA analysis, and you know that over three quarters of all of those cases of exoneration involved only eyewitness identification testimony during the trial that convicted them. We know that eyewitness identifications are fallible.

Scientific America
IN 1984 KIRK BLOODSWORTH was convicted of the rape and murder of a nine-year-old girl and sentenced to the gas chamber—an outcome that rested largely on the testimony of five eyewitnesses. After Bloodsworth served nine years in prison, DNA testing proved him to be innocent. Such devastating mistakes by eyewitnesses are not rare, according to a report by the Innocence Project, an organization affiliated with the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law at Yeshiva University that uses DNA testing to exonerate those wrongfully convicted of crimes. Since the 1990s, when DNA testing was first introduced, Innocence Project researchers have reported that 73 percent of the 239 convictions overturned through DNA testing were based on eyewitness testimony. One third of these overturned cases rested on the testimony of two or more mistaken eyewitnesses. How could so many eyewitnesses be wrong?

visual expert website

Australian eyewitness expert Donald Thomson appeared on a live TV discussion about the unreliability of eyewitness memory. He was later arrested, placed in a lineup and identified by a victim as the man who had raped her. The police charged Thomson although the rape had occurred at the time he was on TV. They dismissed his alibi that he was in plain view of a TV audience and in the company of the other discussants, including an assistant commissioner of police. The policeman taking his statement sneered, "Yes, I suppose you've got Jesus Christ, and the Queen of England, too." Eventually, the investigators discovered that the rapist had attacked the woman as she was watching TV - the very program on which Thompson had appeared. Authorities eventually cleared Thomson. The woman had confused the rapist's face with the face that she had seen on TV. (Baddeley, 2004).

Memory is "blurred"

There are several reasons for this. One is that images in our mind's eye are never as clear as an actual perception. If you try to recall your bedroom, you can get a general image of the location of large and significant objects, their shapes, colors, etc. But the image is not nearly as detailed as what you would see if you were actually viewing the room.

People are much better at discriminating between two objects when they are physically present than when one is present and the other is in memory. Two colors which are easily distinguishable when presented side by side may be confused when one or both must be recalled in memory. In fact, while humans can distinguish thousands (some say millions) of physically present colors, one study suggests that they can identify only 17 in memory.

Color is a particular good example of memory's low resolution. While there are thousands of discriminable colors, color memory is very limited. Research suggests that people group colors into about 11 categories: white, black, red, green, blue, yellow, brown, orange, purple, pink and gray. Memory will easily distinguish between colors of different categories (red vs. blue) but will have a very difficult time distinguishing shades within a category (blue-green vs. blue-violet.)

Color memory also has some biases. People typically remember colors as being closer to a purer color category, so an orange-red will be remembered as a more perfect red. For example, people often think of tomatoes as being red, but check them the next time you go to the supermarket: they are usually very orangey. People also remember colors as being brighter than they actually were. I have a gray Toyota Camry, similar to the one shown on the left. After shopping when I return to the parking lot, I often mistakenly head toward a "silver" Camry like the one shown on the right in the belief that it must be my car. Viewed next to each other, gray and silver cars are quite distinct. In memory, they are not.

Another problem is that memory often stores perceptual information in verbal form rather than as an image. That is, a person might see a blue car. This information is stored in memory as the words "blue" and "car." Later, the person will not be able to identify the shade of blue because memory has only stored the fact that the car was blue. Worse, the car perception may have been stored as "dark" and the person will not be able to distinguish among dark colors - dark blue, black, etc. This process of converting images to word-like forms is automatic and people are unaware when they do it.

Several authors have concluded that memory simply encodes the general gist of a scene. For example, memory may code a memory of a person as short, tall, young, fat, thin, old, white, black, rugged, etc. or some combination. If coded as "tall" and "fat", the person will have difficulty discriminating among different tall, fat people. Moreover, the witness might well characterize the person as being jolly, since fat people are often stereotyped as being jolly. Memory reconstruction (see below) often uses general knowledge and expectations to fill in blanks of specific memories. In short, the eyewitness confuses information stored in semantic and autobiographical memories.

Eyewitness misidentification is the greatest contributing factor to wrongful convictions proven by DNA testing, playing a role in more than 70% of convictions overturned through DNA testing nationwide. - See more at: http://www.innocenceproject.org/

Lining up suspects in front of a one-way mirror and allowing eyewitnesses to choose which one is the perpetrator is standard police procedure. Yet DNA evidence has repeatedly revealed the limitations of this technique: Many prison inmates whose convictions hinged on eyewitness identification were later proven innocent by DNA testing.
http://www.apa.org/




from the righters

Quote:



Trump and Carson on 9/11 cheers


The former mayor of New York City admitted on Morning Joe that he recalled hearing reports of cheers in New Jersey and New York on Sept. 11, 2001, but stressed that he never saw any footage.

Rudy Giuliani, who served as NYC’s mayor during the terrorist attacks on 9/11, was asked by co-host Mika Brzezinski about Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump‘s claim that he witnesses people cheering in Jersey City that day. Before she could finish her question, Giuliani immediately jumped in with an answer.

“I was, as you know, deeply involved in it. I heard reports of such things in New Jersey [and] in New York. I didn’t see it.”
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rudy-giuliani-i-heard-but-didnt-see-reports
-of-911-cheers-in-new-jersey
/

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump defended claims that he witnessed Muslims celebrating in New Jersey following the 9/11 attacks, citing a Washington Post article that described one rooftop...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1231443/Trump-defends-clai
ms-saw-Jersey-Muslims-celebrating-9-11.html


digital journal writes about the Jewish conspiracy

..

There was, however, a group of Middle Eastern men seen smiling and, allegedly, even dancing while recording video footage of the burning and collapsing World Trade Center on 9/11. But they weren't Muslims. According to ABC News, a New Jersey woman who could see the twin towers from her apartment called police on 9/11 after witnessing suspicious men on the roof of a van in her building's parking lot who looked "happy." The neighbor told police she saw the men "dancing" as the horrific scene unfolded before them. She wrote down the van's license plate and called police.
The FBI was soon alerted and a statewide bulletin was issued for the van, which was traced to a company called Urban Moving. Hours later, police stopped the van near Giants Stadium in East Rutherford. Five men, ages 22-27, were removed from the vehicle at gunpoint after failing to obey officers' orders and arrested (read police report here). Officers said their suspicions were heightened by what they found in the van: in addition to box cutters and $4,700 in cash, one of the men had two foreign passports.
"We are Israeli. We are not your problem," the van's driver, Sivan Kurzberg, told arresting officers. "Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem."
The Atlanta Journal Constitution reported that the Israeli Foreign Ministry counted 90-100 Israeli nationals arrested on or after 9/11. While the majority were picked up for immigration violations, there were suspicions that some of them were more than just tourists.
All five of the men arrested in the van identified themselves as Israelis. With the five suspects in custody, investigators turned their attention to Urban Moving, but found the company had shuttered in a hurry, with owner Dominick Suter clearing out his New Jersey home and hastily fleeing back to Israel. Meanwhile, the five arrested men were imprisoned for more than two months. Some of them were held in solitary confinement—which is widely recognized as a form of torture—for more than 40 days. Some were given at least seven lie detector tests. One of the men confessed to working for Israeli intelligence, but in another country.
The Jewish Daily Forward reported in a March 2002 article titled "Spy Rumors Fly on Gusts of Truth" that the FBI concluded that at least two of the five men were Mossad agents spying on a common enemy of both Israel and the United States: radical Islamists.
"The assessment was that Urban Moving Systems was a front for the Mossad and operatives employed by it," an unnamed former US official told the Forward. "The conclusion of the FBI was that they were spying on local Arabs but that they could leave because they did not know anything about 9/11."
The Israeli government denied that the five men arrested in the Urban Moving van were Israeli agents. But many US officials have insisted that the men were, in fact, Israeli spies. The FBI concluded the five prisoners did not have any pre-knowledge of the tragic events of 9/11, and the men were eventually released.
In 2004, four of the Israelis filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against Attorney General John Ashcroft and wardens of the Federal Bureau of Prisons, alleging they were tortured with solitary confinement, sleep deprivation and other physical violence and rough interrogations. The "dancing Israelis" were not successful in court, but their suit was a reminder of documented events on 9/11 when Middle Easterners were indeed arrested after witnesses said they saw them celebrating—only they were Israelis, not Muslims as spuriously claimed by Trump.
Digital Journal is a Canadian Internet news service that blends professional contributions with user-submitted content.
Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/politics




Trump and Carson on 9/11 'celebrations'

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/11/29/chuck-todd-donald-trump-batt
le-over-nj-muslims-celebrating-911-youre-running-for-president-truthfulness-matters
/
Trump said, “Take it easy, Chuck. Just play cool. This is people in this country that love our country that saw this by the hundreds they’re calling and they’re tweeting and there’s a lot of people in Sarasota, people were telling me yesterday they used to live in New Jersey, they remember it vividly. They thought it was disgusting. So these are people that saw it, too. The Washington Post reported it. other people — many, many people have seen it. So I believe that — I have a very good memory, Chuck, I’ll tell you, I have a very good memory. I saw it somewhere on television many years ago and I never forgot it and it was on television, too.”





New Jersey radio station 101.5 quotes some of these accounts here. A sampling:
Walter Emiliantsev: “I lived in NJ at the time on Demott Ave., Clifton! When I tried to go to Paterson to my brother in laws shop, I usually took Main Ave. There were so many people dancing on Main, I couldn’t get through! I KNOW what I saw!”



Remember What Happened. WHO DID IT. & WHO CELEBRATED
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/41898/911-muslim-attacks-on-us-remember
-what-happened-who-did-it-who-celebrated
/





William Hugelmeyer: "I was working in the jail when the attacks occurred. Once it was clear it was a terrorist attack, we had inmates celebrating. This instantly caused a lockdown. As you could imagine, many other inmates and officers didn't share their jubilation."

John Pezzino: "They were in the streets banging on the cars trying to drive through the crowd in the street. The Muslims were shouting death to Americans and Allah is great other crap I didn't understand. We were amused until a car with 3 young women mistakenly turned on to main st. The muslims were banging on their windows and screaming, thats when we came out of our car and pushed the muslims off their car helped them back out and get back to the Parkway."

Walter Emiliantsev: "I lived in NJ at the time on Demott Ave., Clifton! When I tried to go to Paterson to my brother in laws shop, I usually took Main Ave. There were so many people dancing on Main, I couldn't get through! I KNOW what I saw!"

Occam's Razor suggests that when numerous people, using their first and last names in a public forum, and providing concrete details that can be checked, all provide similar accounts of public behavior, chances are they are telling the truth. It is possible that all of these people, as Kim LaCapria suggests, are suffering from false memory syndrome, or are all attempting to whip up murderous hatred against Muslims, as Benjamin Wittes accuses, but neither LaCapria nor Wittes provides any support for their smears.

Cui bono directs us to consider "who benefits" from a statement. New Jersey has one of the largest Muslim populations in the US, after Michigan. New Jersey's Muslim population constitutes the second highest, by percent, in the US, after Illinois and above Michigan. New Jersey Muslims wield political clout. Note Republican Governor Chris Christie's nomination of Sohail Mohammed for the New Jersey Superior Court in spite of intense pressure, and Christie's dismissal as "crap" any concerns that New Jerseyans might have about sharia law. Note also that a New Jersey judge ruled that a Muslim man had the basis to beat, torture, and rape his 17-year-old wife because he believed that Islam granted him this right. Muslim political clout may explain why so many empowered voices insist that the 9-11 celebrations never happened.
https://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/mcs/case_law/sd_v_mjr.pdf

Too, no decent New Jerseyan wanted to see retaliatory attacks against Muslims in our state. Many speculate, and some report as fact, that police, journalists and local officials downplayed or denied Muslim celebrations to protect Muslims from retaliatory attacks.

In contrast, those who insist that they witnessed Muslim celebrations have nothing to gain by making these statements publicly, and everything to lose. First, many of those speaking out now have no public record of making these statements previous to this controversy. They saw what they saw and they kept it to themselves, or told only those closest to them, for the past fourteen years. It is only the attempt to expunge this historical fact from public memory, and to smear and disgrace anyone who speaks this truth, that caused witnesses to come forward. They are average New Jerseyans simply telling the truth in the face of a wave of censorship and demonization that could cost them their friends or their jobs.

Are accounts of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating 9-11 consistent with other verified data? Indeed they are.

Palestinians make up a large percentage of Paterson's Muslim population, so much so that the neighborhood where the 9-11 celebration is alleged to have taken place is sometimes nicknamed "Little Ramallah." Local businesses are often named for Palestinian landmarks, for example the Al-Quds restaurant, Al-Quds Halal meat and the Al-Quds bakery. Paterson has a large Hispanic population; there are businesses with the provocative and irredentist name of El Andalus Discount Store and Andalus Islamic Fashion. Paterson Palestinians are not shy about expressing their opposition to Israel, see here. Indeed, Paterson's City Hall famously flew the Palestinian flag. http://www.northjersey.com/news/palestinian-flag-raising-is-highlight-
of-heritage-week-in-paterson-1.1324680
One Paterson resident, Moneer Simreen, is quoted referring to Palestine, not the US, as "our country." Americans, Tariq Elsamma said, "need to obey our needs because we are a large community." Paterson's mayor, Jose Torres, wore a kaffiyeh and supported making Ramallah Paterson's sister city.

Even those who deny that any American Muslims celebrated 9-11 acknowledge that Palestinians overseas did celebrate the attacks. Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are familially related to Palestinians in Paterson.

Further, polling data indicate that there is not inconsiderable support for terror among some Muslims, with support varying by group. In a 2005 FAFO Foundation poll, a significant percentage of Palestinian respondents supported "Al Qaeda's actions like bombings in USA and Europe." A 2013 Pew Poll found that 40% of Palestinians support suicide bombing in defense of Islam. In the same poll, only one percent of Muslims in Azerbaijan voiced support for suicide bombing.

Finally, we know that six of the 9-11 hijackers lived in Paterson, NJ, and they used the computers of a nearby campus in planning their attacks.

There are all too many non-Muslims who voice support for terror as well. One notorious example: Ward Churchill, a white American university professor of European, Christian descent called the 9-11 victims "little Eichmanns." Other non-Muslims say that poverty or injustice justifies terrorism.

Good people of all beliefs need to say, without ambiguity or apology, that Western Civilization is worth maintaining, and that terrorism is both immoral and a tactical dead-end. If Muslims don't like an aspect of public life, they can change it through organizing and hard work. But we aren't having that conversation to the extent that we should. Instead too many of our cultural elites are apologetic about Western Civilization, and too eager to make excuses for terrorism.

No, Ms. LaCapria, there is no evidence that the people who witnessed New Jersey Muslims celebrating 9-11 suffer from false memory syndrome. No, Benjamin Wittes, those who witnessed the celebrations are not "lying delusional murderous mobs." Rather, the real bigots and racists are those who demonize the honest New Jerseyans who risk censure by simply stating what they saw. From universities, newspaper suites and think tanks, the erasers of history look down on average Americans and sneer. They believe the worst of the American people. They are convinced that if Americans know one small fact - that some New Jersey Muslims celebrated on 9-11 - we will rise up with our pitchforks and torches and erupt into slaughter. They are the delusional ones.

Americans are nice people. We are not especially bigoted. We know that 9-11 happened. Most Americans probably suspect that some minority of Muslims celebrated, openly or in secret. It's been fourteen years, and the pogrom that some have been perversely hoping for and trying to foment never happened.

What we need is frank speech. We need to talk to our Muslim fellow citizens about why some of them celebrated on 9-11. And we need to - through speech - convince those who celebrated 9-11 that they are mistaken. The day that we do so will be a good day. We delay that day by denying that these celebrations ever happened.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260952/did-new-jersey-muslims-celebrat
e-911-danusha-v-goska


The Washington Post confirmed Donald Trump’s remarks about seeing Muslims in NJ celebrating 9/11
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2015/11/23/the-washington-post-confirmed
-donald-trumps-remarks-about-seeing-muslims-in-nj-celebrating-911
/


mediaite comments
I did see videos of small pockets of people celebrating,at Rutgers and in Paterson NJ
Maybe 20 or 30 people.
It was all over news 12 new jersey,the local outlet.
It was never thousands.


In a phone interview on NBC's "Meet the Press," Trump said he has heard from "hundreds of people that agree" that there were televised Muslim celebrations of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, which he used as evidence to show his remarks were true.

"I saw it. So many people saw it," said Trump, who, in the race for the November 2016 election, has been among the most vocal of the Republican candidates in expressing skepticism about Muslims in the United States. "So, why would I take it back? I'm not going to take it back."

When NBC anchor Chuck Todd suggested the people Trump heard from are supporters and might want to agree with him, Trump interrupted to note the "huge Muslim population" New Jersey has.

"Why wouldn't it have taken place?" he said of a celebration there. "I've had hundreds of people call in and tweet in on Twitter, saying that they saw it and I was 100 percent right."

...
...
"It did happen in New Jersey," Trump said.

"I have a very good memory, I'll tell you," he said. "I saw it somewhere on television many years ago. And I never forgot it."


http://newjersey.news12.com/news/there-were-no-mass-celebration-of-mus
lims-in-nj-after-9-11-officials-say-1.11157443

54 Comments


Trump reframes claim that Muslims cheered 9/11
Read more at Reutershttp:// www.reuters.com/

someonline thoughts from right and left
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1908153-REVEALED-Trump-Was-Right-%
E2%80%93-Muslims-DID-Celebrate-in-New-Jersey-on-9-11

http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=451056
http://www.lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=852913
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?p=42650530
http://www.city-data.com/forum/elections/2486838-i-saw-american-muslim
s-celebrate-9-a-2.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/trump-is-right-us-muslims-did-ce
lebrate-9-11.458481
/
http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/184432-more-evidence-new-
jersey-muslims-celebrating-911
/
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?485730-Trump-Carson-repeat
-disputed-9-11-celebration-claim-CNNPolitics

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message3016937/pg1?disclaimer
=1

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027388106
http://theerant.yuku.com/reply/837428/Re-Trump-told-truth-Media-erasin
g-evidence#.VlxfdbW8qg0

from 2009 online posts
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/THJTAJ62CEJQDKQ2V





Trump sticks by claim that Muslims were celebrating Sept. 11 attacks in New Jersey: ‘I’m not going to take it back’
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-sticks-story-n-muslims-
cheering-sept-11-article-1.2449684







Human memories are a funny thing, the memory is not something set in stone memories are different they are less accurate than a DVD their human biological recordings inside the head of man change more than an old cassettte tape, these human recorded thoughts and memory can distort, the memory can re-shape, and become influenced over time....an accurate memory one day can become foggy, the memory can shrink, get ballooned or memory can become muddy and exaggerated in the mists of time
Some sites claim the celebrations happened, others say not at all, some websites of lefts like democraticunderground say it was Jews not Muslim Arabs celebrating, others websites say there is documented evidence but on a much smaller scale....
...whatever the real event Trump has made controversial waves once more


Kim LaCapria suggests, false memory syndrome??

Are their memories wrong? Are they war mongers? Are they getting old and senile?



Or is their any truth to this?


Memory? false or true

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Monday, November 30, 2015 9:11 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I think muzlemz dansing in American streets on or after 9/11 iz very unlikely, but I dont KNOW.

To me, it soundz like sumthing from Dont Mess With The Zohan.

Think about it: If you were living in Iran and the USAF bomd a major bilding there, do you think you or any uv your Cristian buddyz woud be brave enuf to publicly cheer about it? Do you think thered by a meeting in wich everybody votes and if, lets say at least 500 were going to do it, then its on, but any less & youd be afraid uv getting mobbed?




----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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