REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Anti Intellectualism is Killing America

POSTED BY: MAGONSDAUGHTER
UPDATED: Monday, October 30, 2023 14:06
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 19622
PAGE 1 of 4

Monday, June 22, 2015 3:20 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


An interesting read. Applies also to Australia and the UK, but perhaps not yet quite as bad. And I got to say, one of the reasons I rarely post on this board is because the majority of people who now post here fit this category as described "motivated by fear, susceptible to tribalism and simplistic explanations, incapable of emotional maturity, and prone to violent solutions. Sound familiar?" Sure does.

Quote:

The tragedy in Charleston last week will no doubt lead to more discussion of several important and recurring issues in American culture—particularly racism and gun violence—but these dialogues are unlikely to bear much fruit until the nation undertakes a serious self-examination. Decrying racism and gun violence is fine, but for too long America’s social dysfunction has continued to intensify as the nation has ignored a key underlying pathology: anti-intellectualism.

America is killing itself through its embrace and exaltation of ignorance, and the evidence is all around us. Dylann Roof, the Charleston shooter who used race as a basis for hate and mass murder, is just the latest horrific example. Many will correctly blame Roof's actions on America's culture of racism and gun violence, but it's time to realize that such phenomena are directly tied to the nation's culture of ignorance.

In a country where a sitting congressman told a crowd that evolution and the Big Bang are “lies straight from the pit of hell,” (link is external) where the chairman of a Senate environmental panel brought a snowball (link is external) into the chamber as evidence that climate change is a hoax, where almost one in three citizens can’t name the vice president (link is external), it is beyond dispute that critical thinking has been abandoned as a cultural value. Our failure as a society to connect the dots, to see that such anti-intellectualism comes with a huge price, could eventually be our downfall.

In considering the senseless loss of nine lives in Charleston, of course racism jumps out as the main issue. But isn’t ignorance at the root of racism? And it’s true that the bloodshed is a reflection of America's violent, gun-crazed culture, but it is only our aversion to reason as a society that has allowed violence to define the culture. Rational public policy, including policies that allow reasonable restraints on gun access, simply isn't possible without an informed, engaged, and rationally thinking public.

Some will point out, correctly, that even educated people can still be racists, but this shouldn’t remove the spotlight from anti-intellectualism. Yes, even intelligent and educated individuals, often due to cultural and institutional influences, can sometimes carry racist biases. But critically thinking individuals recognize racism as wrong and undesirable, even if they aren’t yet able to eliminate every morsel of bias from their own psyches or from social institutions. An anti-intellectual society, however, will have large swaths of people who are motivated by fear, susceptible to tribalism and simplistic explanations, incapable of emotional maturity, and prone to violent solutions. Sound familiar?

And even though it may seem counter-intuitive, anti-intellectualism has little to do with intelligence. We know little about the raw intellectual abilities of Dylann Roof, but we do know that he is an ignorant racist who willfully allowed irrational hatred of an entire demographic to dictate his actions. Whatever his IQ, to some extent he is a product of a culture driven by fear and emotion, not rational thinking, and his actions reflect the paranoid mentality of one who fails to grasp basic notions of what it means to be human.

What Americans rarely acknowledge is that many of their social problems are rooted in the rejection of critical thinking or, conversely, the glorification of the emotional and irrational. What else could explain the hyper-patriotism (link is external) that has many accepting an outlandish notion that America is far superior to the rest of the world? Love of one’s country is fine, but many Americans seem to honestly believe that their country both invented and perfected the idea of freedom, that the quality of life here far surpasses everywhere else in the world.

But it doesn’t. International quality of life rankings (link is external) place America barely in the top ten. America’s rates of murder (link is external) and other violent crime dwarf most of the rest of the developed world, as does its incarceration rate (link is external), while its rates of education and scientific literacy are embarrassingly low (link is external). American schools, claiming to uphold “traditional values,” avoid fact-based sex education, and thus we have the highest rates of teen pregnancy (link is external) in the industrialized world. And those rates are notably highest where so-called “biblical values” are prominent. Go outside the Bible belt, and the rates generally trend downward (link is external).

As this suggests, the impact of fundamentalist religion in driving American anti-intellectualism has been, and continues to be, immense. Old-fashioned notions of sex education may seem like a relatively minor issue to many, but taking old-time religion too seriously can be extremely dangerous in the modern era. High-ranking individuals, even in the military (link is external), see a confrontation between good and evil as biblically predicted and therefore inevitable. They relish the thought of being a righteous part of the final days.

Fundamentalist religion is also a major force in denying human-caused climate change (link is external), a phenomenon that the scientific community has accepted for years. Interestingly, anti-intellectual fundamentalists are joined in their climate change denial with unusual bedfellows: corporate interests (link is external) that stand to gain from the rejection of sound science on climate.

Corporate influence on climate and environmental policy, meanwhile, is simply more evidence of anti-intellectualism in action, for corporate domination of American society is another result of a public that is not thinking critically. Americans have allowed their democracy to slip away, their culture overtaken by enormous corporations that effectively control both the governmental apparatus and the media, thus shaping life around materialism and consumption.

Indeed, these corporate interests encourage anti-intellectualism, conditioning Americans into conformity and passive acceptance of institutional dominance. They are the ones who stand to gain from the absurd levels of fear and nationalism that result in militaristic foreign policy and absurdly high levels of military spending (link is external). They are the ones who stand to gain from consumers who spend money they don’t have on goods and services they don’t need. They are the ones who want a public that is largely uninformed and distracted, thus allowing government policy to be crafted by corporate lawyers and lobbyists. They are the ones who stand to gain from a prison-industrial complex that generates the highest rates of incarceration in the developed world. They are the ones who stand to gain from unregulated securities markets.

Americans can and should denounce the racist and gun-crazed culture that shamefully resulted in nine corpses in Charleston this week, but they also need to dig deeper. At the core of all of this dysfunction is an abandonment of reason.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201506/ant
i-intellectualism-is-killing-america

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 22, 2015 5:05 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


It is the dumbing down of America, which has reached epidemic proportions, and created to keep the ruling class in the land of Status Quo. Man!, that felt good to get off my chest.

With the rise of the Tea Party, it is both part and parcel the pulse of this country to not question or demand change that would benefit us all.
Fuck the poor! As corporations pollute and dilute the masses, that remains their battlecry. And God forbid you or I even suggest or even hint at, a conscious effort by the superrich to control that self-same montra. How else do you convince millions to fork over hundreds of billions to the banks after they caused the near-collapse of the world-wide monetary system. And with nary a whimper in protest.

The Bailout, and it's root cause - the collapse, was all orchestrated. It was so convoluted that hardly anyone could figure it out. Indeed clever, evil!, but clever. The ramping up of basic human emotions has been under fire, especially during the 9/11 crisis, and has been throttled ever since.
The plan is to keep us busy whilst they fleece us. What better than to start a race war. I have been watching this develop very carefully over the last few years and it is indeed obvious. But, I could shout this from the rooftops and no one will listen. Yes, indeed.....a evil clever plan.


SGG


Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
An interesting read. Applies also to Australia and the UK, but perhaps not yet quite as bad. And I got to say, one of the reasons I rarely post on this board is because the majority of people who now post here fit this category as described "motivated by fear, susceptible to tribalism and simplistic explanations, incapable of emotional maturity, and prone to violent solutions. Sound familiar?" Sure does.

Quote:

The tragedy in Charleston last week will no doubt lead to more discussion of several important and recurring issues in American culture—particularly racism and gun violence—but these dialogues are unlikely to bear much fruit until the nation undertakes a serious self-examination. Decrying racism and gun violence is fine, but for too long America’s social dysfunction has continued to intensify as the nation has ignored a key underlying pathology: anti-intellectualism.

America is killing itself through its embrace and exaltation of ignorance, and the evidence is all around us. Dylann Roof, the Charleston shooter who used race as a basis for hate and mass murder, is just the latest horrific example. Many will correctly blame Roof's actions on America's culture of racism and gun violence, but it's time to realize that such phenomena are directly tied to the nation's culture of ignorance.

In a country where a sitting congressman told a crowd that evolution and the Big Bang are “lies straight from the pit of hell,” (link is external) where the chairman of a Senate environmental panel brought a snowball (link is external) into the chamber as evidence that climate change is a hoax, where almost one in three citizens can’t name the vice president (link is external), it is beyond dispute that critical thinking has been abandoned as a cultural value. Our failure as a society to connect the dots, to see that such anti-intellectualism comes with a huge price, could eventually be our downfall.

In considering the senseless loss of nine lives in Charleston, of course racism jumps out as the main issue. But isn’t ignorance at the root of racism? And it’s true that the bloodshed is a reflection of America's violent, gun-crazed culture, but it is only our aversion to reason as a society that has allowed violence to define the culture. Rational public policy, including policies that allow reasonable restraints on gun access, simply isn't possible without an informed, engaged, and rationally thinking public.

Some will point out, correctly, that even educated people can still be racists, but this shouldn’t remove the spotlight from anti-intellectualism. Yes, even intelligent and educated individuals, often due to cultural and institutional influences, can sometimes carry racist biases. But critically thinking individuals recognize racism as wrong and undesirable, even if they aren’t yet able to eliminate every morsel of bias from their own psyches or from social institutions. An anti-intellectual society, however, will have large swaths of people who are motivated by fear, susceptible to tribalism and simplistic explanations, incapable of emotional maturity, and prone to violent solutions. Sound familiar?

And even though it may seem counter-intuitive, anti-intellectualism has little to do with intelligence. We know little about the raw intellectual abilities of Dylann Roof, but we do know that he is an ignorant racist who willfully allowed irrational hatred of an entire demographic to dictate his actions. Whatever his IQ, to some extent he is a product of a culture driven by fear and emotion, not rational thinking, and his actions reflect the paranoid mentality of one who fails to grasp basic notions of what it means to be human.

What Americans rarely acknowledge is that many of their social problems are rooted in the rejection of critical thinking or, conversely, the glorification of the emotional and irrational. What else could explain the hyper-patriotism (link is external) that has many accepting an outlandish notion that America is far superior to the rest of the world? Love of one’s country is fine, but many Americans seem to honestly believe that their country both invented and perfected the idea of freedom, that the quality of life here far surpasses everywhere else in the world.

But it doesn’t. International quality of life rankings (link is external) place America barely in the top ten. America’s rates of murder (link is external) and other violent crime dwarf most of the rest of the developed world, as does its incarceration rate (link is external), while its rates of education and scientific literacy are embarrassingly low (link is external). American schools, claiming to uphold “traditional values,” avoid fact-based sex education, and thus we have the highest rates of teen pregnancy (link is external) in the industrialized world. And those rates are notably highest where so-called “biblical values” are prominent. Go outside the Bible belt, and the rates generally trend downward (link is external).

As this suggests, the impact of fundamentalist religion in driving American anti-intellectualism has been, and continues to be, immense. Old-fashioned notions of sex education may seem like a relatively minor issue to many, but taking old-time religion too seriously can be extremely dangerous in the modern era. High-ranking individuals, even in the military (link is external), see a confrontation between good and evil as biblically predicted and therefore inevitable. They relish the thought of being a righteous part of the final days.

Fundamentalist religion is also a major force in denying human-caused climate change (link is external), a phenomenon that the scientific community has accepted for years. Interestingly, anti-intellectual fundamentalists are joined in their climate change denial with unusual bedfellows: corporate interests (link is external) that stand to gain from the rejection of sound science on climate.

Corporate influence on climate and environmental policy, meanwhile, is simply more evidence of anti-intellectualism in action, for corporate domination of American society is another result of a public that is not thinking critically. Americans have allowed their democracy to slip away, their culture overtaken by enormous corporations that effectively control both the governmental apparatus and the media, thus shaping life around materialism and consumption.

Indeed, these corporate interests encourage anti-intellectualism, conditioning Americans into conformity and passive acceptance of institutional dominance. They are the ones who stand to gain from the absurd levels of fear and nationalism that result in militaristic foreign policy and absurdly high levels of military spending (link is external). They are the ones who stand to gain from consumers who spend money they don’t have on goods and services they don’t need. They are the ones who want a public that is largely uninformed and distracted, thus allowing government policy to be crafted by corporate lawyers and lobbyists. They are the ones who stand to gain from a prison-industrial complex that generates the highest rates of incarceration in the developed world. They are the ones who stand to gain from unregulated securities markets.

Americans can and should denounce the racist and gun-crazed culture that shamefully resulted in nine corpses in Charleston this week, but they also need to dig deeper. At the core of all of this dysfunction is an abandonment of reason.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-humanity-naturally/201506/ant
i-intellectualism-is-killing-america

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 22, 2015 9:09 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Applies also to Australia and the UK, but perhaps not yet quite as bad.
In Australia or America, the key underlying pathology is white supremacy, not anti-intellectualism. Ignorance is not at the root of racism. The root cause has always been about stealing money, property, women, land, even lives. The white supremacists like to beautify their plunder with justifications even they know are only hot air and empty words. Does that realization stop them and make them give back what they stole? Obviously not, because it is too intellectual. They keep what they steal. Malcolm Reynolds type plunderers are few and far between among the thieves of the world. www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/take-down-the-confederate
-flag-now/396290/

Last night, Dylann Roof walked into a Charleston church, sat for a moment, and then killed nine people. Roof’s crime cannot be divorced from the ideology of white supremacy which long animated his state nor from its potent symbol—the Confederate flag. Visitors to Charleston have long been treated to South Carolina’s attempt to clean its history and depict its secession as something other than a war to guarantee the enslavement of the majority of its residents. This notion is belied by any serious interrogation of the Civil War and the primary documents of its instigators. Yet the Confederate battle flag—the flag of Dylann Roof—still flies on the Capitol grounds.

The Confederate flag’s defenders often claim it represents “heritage not hate.” I agree—the heritage of White Supremacy was not so much birthed by hate as by the impulse toward plunder. Dylann Roof plundered nine different bodies last night, plundered nine different families of an original member, plundered nine different communities of a singular member. An entire people are poorer for his action. The flag that Roof embraced, which many South Carolinians embrace, does not stand in opposition this act—it endorses it. That the Confederate flag is the symbol of of white supremacists is evidenced by the very words of those who birthed it:

“Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth...”

This moral truth—“that the negro is not equal to the white man”—is exactly what animated Dylann Roof. More than any individual actor, in recent history, Roof honored his flag in exactly the manner it always demanded—with human sacrifice.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 22, 2015 10:26 AM

WISHIMAY


Unfortunately, black culture is what is doing it's best to ensure blacks remain unequal. My mom married a black guy a few years ago, and he's a pretty smart guy and super nice. Hangs out with white people. Says he feels "more at ease' with whites, because with black culture EVERYTHING is "racis" and overly dramatic and hate filled. He said he can't be in a group of black men because inevitably SOMEONE will start a fight about something. They tend to wear their emotional state on their sleeves.

The problem with white culture is that that white people are paranoid and the vast majority NEED to be led. Most white people can't exist without a hierarchy telling them their place in life. I think white people can be just as hate filled as black culture, but white people are more subdued about it. Then "holding it in" becomes a ticking bomb.




NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 22, 2015 12:29 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
I rarely post on this board is because the majority of people who now post here fit this category as described "motivated by fear, susceptible to tribalism and simplistic explanations, incapable of emotional maturity, and prone to violent solutions. Sound familiar?" Sure does.



I think if this represents your point of view you're too simplistic. It wraps things up nicely in a bow and is lacking in observational information that may help us to understand possible solutions. I have a guy who works for maintenance here and he is locked into global warming being a naturally occurring event. He believes that because his information comes from those who for political and other reasons side with oil and coal. His source is the Republican Party and news outlets like Fox news. We have those types here in RWT. Republican’s and even some Democrats residing in districts where oil or coal creates jobs realize trying to shut these industries down means they are the ones out of a job. Politicians are lobbied with money and that is why they say what they say (mostly) not because they always believe it. The article suggests it is due to anti-intellectualism. People on the left believe that it must be that because the need to take action on global warming and gun control is so obvious. Therefore it must be due to the lack of intellect of the American people.

The fact is that 90 + % of Americans wanted better background checks for gun ownership. 80 + % of American gun owners wanted better background checks and still the bill did not pass. Why, because so many republican districts are gerrymandered and if they voted for better background checks they would be challenged in their next primary. Why, because they have locked themselves into needing the NRA’s stamp of approval or so they believe. The reasons for stupid things being allowed to continue are endless. Many times it is due to very smart and powerful people in the background pulling the strings. Even the Republicans have had to shift their opinions from there is no global warming, to there is but it is natural. This is because of the intellect of the people forcing them to.

More people in the world are graduating from college than ever before and it is not anti-intellectualism that stops things that make sense from getting done. It has more to do with personal gain, greed and power. It would be better described as the human condition than anti-intellectualism. Yes anti-intellectualism exists and can be shown as another possible contributor to the tragedy in Charleston. You could make the argument that it is partially responsible for why there have been no gains in smarter gun laws, and for being a blocking force in global warming. However it is too simplistic to chalk it up to that.

P.S. It is not the confederate flag that flies over the Capital in South Carolina. It is the confederate battle flag and it was first hung there in the 1960's as a way to say F U to the government in Washington during the civil rights movement. So yes it is a symbol of hate that's flying there. The Republican politicians running for President today saying flying that flag is a states issue, should also be asked if it's a states right to practice slavery. This is also the flag that represents the army that tried to destroy and overthrow our government. We have a central government and if they truly believe this is a states rights issue, then they can't possibly represent the entire country if elected.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 22, 2015 1:28 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
An interesting read. Applies also to Australia and the UK, but perhaps not yet quite as bad.


An interesting article, but quite a strech to be strapping it onto a single tanjentially related event, hoping to ride the publisity.

You hav to wonder about the attitude tho. Wen prezented with real solutionz, progressivez suddenly bekum conservativz kuz they dont want to chanj the thingz they grew up believing.

A wize man rote: Given enuf time, everything eventually bekumz a viktim uv its own flawz.






----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 22, 2015 3:16 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Heh!

Well, guilty as charged!

I've been on this board so long .... where everything starts as a bar-fight and real discussions never occur ... that I myself have become somewhat incapable of discussion.

A couple of sideways notes:

HISTORY OF AMERICAN INTELLECTUALISM
My more intellectual friends pointed out to me ... decades ago ... the fundamental anti-intellectualism of Americans. It was justified as "the wisdom of the rough-hewn farmer/frontiersman" being better than the corrupt, dandified, static intellectuals of Europe. During the anti-war movement, it was expressed as disdain for those "effete intellectual snobs" (VP Spiro Agnew, expressing a widely-promoted anti-anti-war sentiment).

Lately, it was expressed right here on this board as
Quote:
So funny... oooooo French! Mon dieu! Such a heavy intellect!
[G: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=59799&p=3]. I'm going to answer that "criticism", if it can be called such, with this:
Well, it's minor intellectualism. And do you have something against intellectualism? (I think the answer is "yes")

There are all kinds of reasons why Americans are particularly ignorant: Most of us are far away from any other nation, protected from foreign ideas by two large oceans on either side and a USA-clone up north. We have a history of disdain for learning anything from history, since our "pioneer" meme is to build everything from scratch. And most of us are English-only, inoculating us against any threat of contamination.

PROMOTERS OF ANTI-INTELLECTUALISM
But NO nation with a strong central government wants intellectuals, because they ask awkward questions. And just as certainly, no CORPORATION wants to foster intellectualism either, since intellectuals are less easily influenced into going into debt to buy shit they don't need, and (again) they ask awkward questions.

There is a lot of deep psychology involved in promoting anti-intellectualism, and I think it's based on the following premise/ paradigm which is embedded in advertising and propaganda, and it's this:

"Emotions", for the most part, are what "motivate" us. (Both the word "emotion" and "motivate" come from the same root word, which means- to cause to move.) So, what causes most people "to move" is what they FEEL. At the basis of all advertising is the idea that YOUR EMOTIONS MATTER. That it's IMPORTANT for you to feel happy, to feel successful, to feel accepted, to feel in control. And that feeling sad, or fearful, or uncertain, or alone, is to be avoided at all costs.

Using that meme, they can cause you to assuage your unhappiness/fear/uncertainty by buying their crossover vehicle (which makes you a confident explorer, because that's how its shown on TV), or their light beer (which makes you part of the fun crowd, because that's how its shown on TV) etc. Politicians do the same thing, of course, by manipulating fear.

The underlying expected mindset is of confidence and self-worth, ready to pick one's self up time after time, hypomania. However, studies show that people who are classified as "mildly depressed" are MORE accurate in their judgment of situational outcomes, so even our psychologists are skewed towards hypomania as being the preferred norm.

EMOTIONS VERSUS THOUGHT
People also avoid thoughts which make them uncomfortable. There is another meme which has gained a lot of currency, and that is the meme of "intuition": Gut reaction is more valuable/true than a thought-out approach. However, in real life head versus heart situations (what you feel versus what you think), thought wins out. But this view that people must be comfortable at all times puts a real barrier to meeting new ideas and confronting difficult truths.



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 22, 2015 3:29 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


It's a concept I came to accept many years ago.

There's a strong - and irrational - strain of mythology about the superiority of the American 'common man' that dates back to the early 1800s. Back then the pool of politicians running for office had become notably shallow. After all, the brilliant thinkers of the American Revolution had passed away. In order to get elected the politicians had to break from comparisons to the past and settle on a theme the population would embrace. The first candidate to use the 'common man' campaign slogan was Andrew Jackson. He was America's first populist candidate, but not the last. And in its way, as a sales pitch that told the market what it wanted to hear, it was so brilliant it's used to this day.



The virus persists in politics, from dumbya as America's worst president but who got re-elected as the guy you want at your barbecue, to the TPers, to the portrayal of liberals, who are presumably educated, as un-American Latte-drinking, prius-driving, and birkenstock-wearing.

But the sales pitch of the common man has been hijacked by many interests. Any time you want to invoke beliefs to avoid a discussion of facts - from global warming, to the 'exceptionalism' of America, to the benefits of capitalism, to 'right to protect' - all you have to do is portray the other side as effete snobs. Or, if you're 'G' and THUGGR, as suspicious, foreign, un-American communists, but certainly NOT the common man.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 22, 2015 3:49 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Nothing says dishonest propaganda and anti intellectualism like reliance on ad hominems to avoid the topic.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, June 22, 2015 5:41 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Nothing says dishonest propaganda and anti intellectualism like reliance on ad hominems to avoid the topic.


I addressed the topic at length - it was the third post, well before yours. Guess you didn't read it.


Don't be goaded G. There are many posts that should go unheeded. Sig and kiki's are two. If the thread dies because there are no posts you to wish to address so be it. Just start or wait for a new one. Of course it's up to you but I hate to see good logic go to waste on those incapable of absorbing it.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 23, 2015 1:39 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Lately, it was expressed right here on this board as
Quote:
So funny... oooooo French! Mon dieu! Such a heavy intellect!
[G: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=59799&p=3]. I'm going to answer that "criticism", if it can be called such, with this:
Well, it's minor intellectualism. And do you have something against intellectualism? (I think the answer is "yes")


I have something against pretenders such as yourself. Nothing says 'wanna be' like dropping pithy phrases in French no less. I thought everyone was aware of that public gaff - guess not.

If speaking French was enough to make one an intellectual then Mitt Romney is your daddy.


First of all, "folie a deux" is, as far as I know, the ONLY term with which to describe a psychiatric condition. There's no substitute, unless you want to suggest one?

Secondly, I guess just I couldn't resist goading you (and THUGR) in a tribal sort of fashion. My bad.

So, aside from that tribal sort of poke, do you have anything ELSE to say about my post? I mean, I packed a lot of stuff in there, about how people are conditioned to into believing that their feelings matter, so that they can be manipulated by their feelings.

And how coddling their feelings leads to all sorts of dysfunctional activity, like buying shit they don't need, and avoiding topics they might really need to address?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 23, 2015 8:38 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:
Originally posted by G:
You get to read about your supposed superiority and how right you are, Magons gets to read about all 300 million people in the US being stupid and dangerous. I don't see much real thought in either of those povs.
Folie à deux or "the theatric of two" is a psychiatric syndrome in which symptoms of a delusional belief are transmitted from one individual to another. The same syndrome shared by more than two people may be called folie à trois, folie à quatre, or even folie à plusieurs ("madness of many"). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_%C3%A0_deux

Before all the great presidents died, Andrew Jackson, the Man of the People in his presidential campaign, made his fortune trading slaves. Such a wholesome profession. Once in power, Jackson signed the Indian Removal Act, the Steal-their-land/Kill-them Act. The common man approved of Jackson, which is the key to understanding the common man's morality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act
Jackson remains on the $20 bill, the most common bill from ATMs, which says everything about today's common man's morality where killing is highly moral so long as the US military does it for the common man. Call it America's folie à plusieurs.

A person cannot be diagnosed as being delusional if the belief in question is one ordinarily accepted by other members of the person's culture or subculture. It is not clear at what point a delusional belief escapes from the folie à plusieurs diagnostic category and becomes legitimate because of the number of people holding it.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 23, 2015 8:40 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I(link is external)coud(link is external)only(link is external)think(link is external)that(link is external)the(link is external)article(link is external)failed(link is external)to(link is external)get(link is external)to(link is external)the(link is external)funda(link is external)mental(link is external)problem.(link is external)Our(link is external)society(link is external)iz(link is external)not(link is external)very(link is external)good(link is external)at(link is external)recognizing(link is external)good(link is external)ideas.(link is external)If(link is external)a(link is external)bum(link is external)on(link is external)skid(link is external)row(link is external)figurez(link is external)out(link is external)the(link is external)perfect(link is external)solution(link is external)to(link is external)a(link is external)problem(link is external),(link is external)to(link is external)bad(link is external),(link is external)it(link is external)will(link is external)never(link is external)rize(link is external)up(link is external)out(link is external)uv(link is external)the(link is external)trash(link is external).(link is external)
(link is external)Mean(link is external)wile(link is external),(link is external)Kim(link is external)Kar(link is external)dash(link is external)ian(link is external)can(link is external)repeat(link is external)the(link is external)standard(link is external)issue(link is external)prop(link is external)a(link is external)gand(link is external)a(link is external)&(link is external)it(link is external)will(link is external)be(link is external)in(link is external)a(link is external)billion(link is external)earz(link is external)within(link is external)24*hourz(link is external).



*(link is external)

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 23, 2015 8:45 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:

*(link is external)
Did you mean to say:
Quote:
I coud only think that the article failed to get to the funda mental problem. Our society iz not very good at recognizing good ideas. If a bum on skid row figurez out the perfect solution to a problem, too bad, it will never rize up out uv the trash.
Meanwile , Kim Kardashian can repeat the standard issue propaganda & it will be in a billion earz within 24*hourz.


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 23, 2015 9:25 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Ye, sumtin like dat!

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 23, 2015 9:38 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Not anti-intellectualism, but white supremacy, better explains America:

www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2015/06/slaverys-long-shadow.html

Slavery’s Long Shadow by Paul Krugman in The New York Times:

My own understanding of the role of race in U.S. exceptionalism was largely shaped by two academic papers. The first, by the political scientist Larry Bartels, analyzed the move of the white working class away from Democrats, a move made famous in Thomas Frank’s “What’s the Matter With Kansas?” Mr. Frank argued that working-class whites were being induced to vote against their own interests by the right’s exploitation of cultural issues. But Mr. Bartels showed that the working-class turn against Democrats wasn’t a national phenomenon — it was entirely restricted to the South, where whites turned overwhelmingly Republican after the passage of the Civil Rights Act and Richard Nixon’s adoption of the so-called Southern strategy. And this party-switching, in turn, was what drove the rightward swing of American politics after 1980. Race made Reaganism possible. And to this day Southern whites overwhelmingly vote Republican, to the tune of 85 or even 90 percent in the deep South.

The second paper, by the economists Alberto Alesina, Edward Glaeser, and Bruce Sacerdote, was titled “Why Doesn’t the United States Have a European-style Welfare State?” Its authors — who are not, by the way, especially liberal — explored a number of hypotheses, but eventually concluded that race is central, because in America programs that help the needy are all too often seen as programs that help Those People: “Within the United States, race is the single most important predictor of support for welfare. America’s troubled race relations are clearly a major reason for the absence of an American welfare state.”

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 23, 2015 9:43 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND

IMHO beliefs are NEVER legitimate unless they're backed up by some sort of consistency with reality. So I can believe all I want that malaria is caused by "bad air" (in the very name itself mal = bad, from the Latin , aria = air) but until I either kill those friggin' mosquitoes which xmit malaria, or kill the parasite which causes the disease, my "beliefs" are pretty much going to be DOA.

There are such things as ethics and a priori assumptions .... goals which we believe to be good, and assumptions which lay the foundation of all of our other reasoning ... which can never be proved, but the philosphical ideal (according to what I've been told) is to reduce as much as possible the scattered individual beliefs, and tie as much as possible together with some sort of logic. And I think that's where most people fail epically- they don't even recognize when one idea or ethic clashes violently and completely with another. If the common man (or the common woman) though thru their existence and predicaments once in a while, and developed an idea of where their real long-term interests lie, they wouldn't be bamboozled into doing so many things that benefited those who are manipulating them. But we, as a whole, remind me of the ladybug which is being controlled by the fungus+larva in its brain: tragically destined to sacrifice itself for something else.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 23, 2015 12:04 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND

And I think that's where most people fail especially - they don't even recognize when one idea or ethic clashes violently and completely with another. If the common man (or the common woman) though thru their existence and predicaments once in a while, and developed an idea of where their real long-term interests lie, they wouldn't be bamboozled into doing so many things that benefited those who are manipulating them.
I really don't think that is what the problem is. More education would solve this anti-intellectualism but I think the real problem is: “It's better not to know.”

It's better not to be educated about evolution, unless you earn your pay as a biologist, then to know and alienate your Baptist relatives. It's better not to know about global warming, unless you're a climatologist, then to know and alienate your neighbors, the oil refinery workers (I live near Exxon-Mobile Baytown Texas).

Going back in history, it's better not to know how Pres. Andrew Jackson was tricking Indians out of their land, especially if you want to own that land cheaply. It's better not to know how the US Army moved the Indians out of Georgia and how many died. You want the land without feeling guilty. If you lived in a slave state, it's better not to know precisely how the 10% of families that owned slaves used the slaves. Look away or else you might have to do the nasty work the slave was doing. It you were in the 9% of families that owned a single slave, it was better not to know how the top 1% of families treated their slaves. If you were the top 1%, you really don't want to know how the slave-overseer in the next plantation disciplined slaves. Your overseer was kind, yet firm, with your slaves, you hoped.

Not knowing, call it anti-intellectualism, has always been very practical for weak people. They avoid some, not all, moral dilemmas and charitable giving by not knowing about problems. That leaves them with more leisure, money and land. Nearly everyone I know wants those things.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 23, 2015 12:29 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Good post, Second.

Sumthing to think about.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 23, 2015 12:55 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by second:

SECOND

I really don't think that is what the problem is. More education would solve this anti-intellectualism but I think the real problem is: “It's better not to know.”

It's better not to be educated about evolution, unless you earn your pay as a biologist, then to know and alienate your Baptist relatives. It's better not to know about global warming, unless you're a climatologist, then to know and alienate your neighbors, the oil refinery workers (I live near Exxon-Mobile Baytown Texas).

Going back in history, it's better not to know how Pres. Andrew Jackson was tricking Indians out of their land, especially if you want to own that land cheaply. It's better not to know how the US Army moved the Indians out of Georgia and how many died. You want the land without feeling guilty. If you lived in a slave state, it's better not to know precisely how the 10% of families that owned slaves used the slaves. Look away or else you might have to do the nasty work the slave was doing. It you were in the 9% of families that owned a single slave, it was better not to know how the top 1% of families treated their slaves. If you were the top 1%, you really don't want to know how the slave-overseer in the next plantation disciplined slaves. Your overseer was kind, yet firm, with your slaves, you hoped.

Not knowing, call it anti-intellectualism, has always been very practical for weak people. They avoid some, not all, moral dilemmas and charitable giving by not knowing about problems. That leaves them with more leisure, money and land. Nearly everyone I know wants those things.


As we go forward into the furture society will answer questions concerning life, law, and human relationships, as we continue with the battle over lordship; who is lord, god or man? The theory of evolution has done far more than just reshape America's biology textbooks, it redefined the nature of the debate.

Most relationships start as either personal or professional and are emotional or intellectual. An emotional connection usually requires significant amounts of time spent with the person. Intellectual ideas are the order of the day. Philosophy and analytic disagreements, industry banter, current affairs, books.

Contact with the person has little bearing on quality of intellectual dialogue. Relationships evolve based on comfort levels and that’s where barriers and boundaries dictate outcomes. Ugly, pretty Black or White. We will continue to evolve but as we do we need to continue to eliminate the different ways we separate ourselves from each other. Hopefully religion will begin to disappear sooner rather than later. Skins colors are changing rapidly too a common middle tone and that will go far in washing away another barrier, although even among blacks lighter skin is preferred. Give it time folks. Look at all the changes in this country that have occurred in the last eighty years or so.




NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 23, 2015 4:15 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Give it time folks. Look at all the changes in this country that have occurred in the last eighty years or so.
The process is slower than that. Most people do what everyone around them do, even when the “everyone” around have been dead 150 years. There is a recent paper called The Political Legacy of American Slavery. It shows a strong relationship, at the county level, between the slave share of the population in 1860 and political attitudes today:

“We show that contemporary differences in political attitudes across counties in the American South in part trace their origins to slavery’s prevalence more than 150 years ago. Whites who currently live in Southern counties that had high shares of slaves in 1860 are more likely to identify as a Republican, oppose affirmative action, and express racial resentment and colder feelings toward blacks.”

Remarkably, the slave share in 1860 is a better predictor of attitudes than the share of African-Americans in the population today. The paper attributes this surprising fact to what happened after the Civil War, when:

“Southern whites faced political and economic incentives to reinforce existing racist norms and institutions to maintain control over the newly free African-American population.”
http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/msen/files/slavery.pdf

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, June 23, 2015 5:48 PM

THGRRI


All this talk of slavery and racism is always the same and deflects from the fact that Blacks only represent 13% of the population. They have very little power and need to center changes from within. The Asian population represents 5% of this country’s residents and look different, but do not suffer the same lack of access to resources. Ask yourself why that is.

The reason a company opens up its doors in a community is because that community provides what the company desires. Would you open a business in these impoverished neighborhoods? Do you consider these people as worth the risk employees? Sounds cold but I am just asking if you feel differently and why.

The slavery debate also defects from the fact that people who are different, differ. I am not saying any form of oppression is acceptable but it is not just about racism. Racism is when someone of a different color skin claims superiority. There are a lot of White people in this country who have witnessed firsthand people from India doing just that once coming to America. It is taught to them in the call centers in India that Americans are very immature. Racism is nothing more than bigotry and bigotry is practiced by all cultures in all forms and venues. Politics and religion to name two. Blacks have problems with Hispanics because they fight for the same resources. Many Whites have problems with Hispanics because by sheer numbers they are changing the American landscape. They feel they and their ancestors worked hard to build this country and the migrants broke the law getting here. Jews and Islamists hate each other. Chinese hate the Japanese and the Japanese still dislike the Koreans.

I had a Japanese professor who sent her children to Japan for their first years of schooling because she, like other Japanese, did not want her children influenced by American culture. In Asian countries everyone looks Asian. There’s a reason for that. The Hispanic and Italian cultures want their children to many others of the same culture just as it was for Catholics. It’s the same for other religious faiths. Its all bigotry and no different from racism.

Look, even Backs portray the Black community as a less than desirable place to live in their movies, and certainly as no place anyone would care to invest. I don’t know about you and I am not saying this to be mean but you all want to quote statistics (which are important) but you forget about the image portrayed by Blacks to the rest of society. I find their behavior abrasive and somewhat anti-social. Now I am willing to admit their history crated this but still it exists, and being white and privy to what many think, it would go a long way if they would make their hate of whites a little less apparent. It couldn’t hurt. It should also be noted that someone who never even tried to fit into society because it is (the White man’s way) has little influence in the conversation because it is not the White man’s way, it is what it takes to gain resources. I think it might help if the discussion were to include the human propensity to do this to each other. To expose how religion and other cultural beliefs are the fuel for all of this.

What is your culture and what faith do you practice?



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 24, 2015 5:47 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I think Signy hits the mark with this

Quote:
My more intellectual friends pointed out to me ... decades ago ... the fundamental anti-intellectualism of Americans. It was justified as "the wisdom of the rough-hewn farmer/frontiersman" being better than the corrupt, dandified, static intellectuals of Europe. During the anti-war movement, it was expressed as disdain for those "effete intellectual snobs" (VP Spiro Agnew, expressing a widely-promoted anti-anti-war sentiment).

........

There are all kinds of reasons why Americans are particularly ignorant: Most of us are far away from any other nation, protected from foreign ideas by two large oceans on either side and a USA-clone up north. We have a history of disdain for learning anything from history, since our "pioneer" meme is to build everything from scratch. And most of us are English-only, inoculating us against any threat of contamination.


Yes, closest observation to how I see my culture and where we are similar. We came from working class, often criminal sub class and that formed our mythology...not intellectuals or thinkers, but doers. People who rolled up their sleeves and worked hard. Plain spoken, stronly egalitarian, common sense valued over wisdom.

We also suffer from 'tall poppy syndrome'. Traditionally, it was considered vulgar for people to do too well, especially if they were perceived as being proud of their achievements. That sort of stuff detracts from the sense of the underdog is someone we should support. I know this stuff is prevelant because I FEEL IT TOO.

Trouble is, disdain also spreads to people who are too clever, who know too much. Academics are viewed with suspicion, philosophers...perlease, who would give them the time of day. people are most comfortable talking crap to one another, Reality TV, holidays, renovations, things they have purchased. SPORT, SPORT and MORE SPORT.

Geez just thinking about it makes me want to bleed from my eyes.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 24, 2015 8:01 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
All this talk of slavery and racism is always the same and deflects from the fact that Blacks only represent 13% of the population. They have very little power and need to center changes from within. The Asian population represents 5% of this country’s residents and look different, but do not suffer the same lack of access to resources. Ask yourself why that is.
. . .
I had a Japanese professor who sent her children to Japan for their first years of schooling because she, like other Japanese, did not want her children influenced by American culture. In Asian countries everyone looks Asian.
I assume you have not been around white Texans with their deranged contempt for Obama. Nigerian engineers I know have asked me, “Why are whites crazy with hate toward this man?” The Nigerians find American racism hard to rationalize. Why can't white people see that blacks are superior, as is Obama to that fool George Bush? But Nigerians were never a minority and nobody in the country of their birth was snidely insinuating they weren't up to white standards. African-Americans do not have the psychological protection that Nigerians have by not being born and raised in America.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 24, 2015 11:22 AM

THGRRI


TWO
Quote:

Nigerian engineers I know have asked me, “Why are whites crazy with hate toward this man?” The Nigerians find American racism hard to rationalize. Why can't white people see that blacks are superior, as is Obama to that fool George Bush?


Benin Nigeria during the slave trade years prevented the depletion of its own population by prohibiting the export of male slaves during the 16th and 17th centuries, and by importing slaves purchased by Europeans elsewhere in West Africa, and resold some of them to the region which is now Ghana.

It boils down to politics and bigotry in this country, what do they call it in theirs?

TWO
Quote:

But Nigerians were never a minority and nobody in the country of their birth was snidely insinuating they weren't up to white standards. African-Americans do not have the psychological protection that Nigerians have by not being born and raised in America.


I have many anecdotal stories of immigrants and they do not understand what the Blacks in this country are crying about. They find jobs and benefit from all the programs that allow them to take advantage of our educational system. They realize not everybody is going to like them and they see the opportunities here as endless.

I do not want to come across as a denier of bigotry and the plight of Blacks in this country. I am just insisting that it works both ways and that needs to be on the table when discussing the problem. Many Blacks see whites as responsible for all their troubles even though they refused to participate in school or try to better themselves in any way. They have their excuse card and they play it to the hilt. Others within their communities have to clean that up.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 24, 2015 11:36 AM

THGRRI


The term anti-intellectualism was coined by an intellectual. This makes it suspect.

Even people who write about the subject appear to not understand the term.

Anti-intellectualism is hostility towards and mistrust of intellect, intellectuals, and intellectual pursuits, usually expressed as the derision of education, philosophy, literature, art, and science, as impractical and contemptible.

It's just the opposite in this country. Americans want the best education their money can buy for them and if not them their kids. Every election voters always place education up at the top of their list of concerns.

People don't have a distaste for education, they just don't like snobs or people who always think they are right looking down on them.

If you want to see a country that matches the definition of anti-intellectual, look to laos in the 70's.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 6:37 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Plenty of well educated bigots, shitbirds, and assholes. I'll go for compassion, selflessness, empathy and other traits that are much harder to teach.

HAHAHAHA!!!!!

*wipes eyes*

Says the man who just wants to bomb people!!!!

You owe me a keyboard, for the coffee that I managed to spray all over it. Son, you don't even KNOW when you're being a psychopath! That's why you can manage to write this with (presumably) a straight face. But that's like most anti-intellectuals: no perspective, no self-reflection.

Quote:
The term anti-intellectualism was coined by an intellectual. This makes it suspect.
Because, of course, you judge ideas by who came up with them, instead of whether they have any merit.


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 6:52 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
"Caveat Emptor" says it pretty well for me ;) Are you going to determine what someone can buy or believe in? Are you going to decide what things people can say? Are you going to be the one that determines who these so-called susceptible people are and what topics they should address to better themselves? Your version of a free society has lots of controls over ""people" with what appears to be you doing the controlling. Can you address that?
Actually, yes, I can. And I have. Did you not read my point about people being MANIPULATED? I'm against people being manipulated, in case you haven't figured that out. YOU'RE being manipulated, in fact. You've been manipulated so long - your whole life- you think it's the truth, that it springs natively from some deep knowledge that you already have. But can you even explain WHAT you believe and WHY you feel so deeply?

No so far.

That's a good indication that you really don't know what you know.

I believe in arming people with enough questioning attitude to make that manipulation impossible. SOME PEOPLE (You, perhaps?) don't want to ask questions, and really hate answers if they lead in unfamiliar directions.

I have many times expressed how I define knowledge and how I define intellectualism. One of the books that really influenced my thinking is Man Against Myth. But, in reality, in order to be an intellectual, one has to stop being defensive about ideas. Turn the emotion dial down, and contemplate with a certain amount of sang froid [literally = "blood frozen"] ideas which are unfamiliar or which lead to discomfort. MOST people's weakness aren't intellectual, they're emotional. Most people are afraid of new ideas.

Quote:
I think like a lot of people you use the word "intellectualism" too casually, definitely without clarity. The way you and others use it is with a heavy dose of, "we have decided we are intellectuals. If you don't believe as we do then you are not intelligent," when objectively, it can simply be a difference of opinion, just one you do not share.


I don't criticize you because you don't "believe as I do". I criticize you because you're incapable of supporting "your" ideas vigorously, on the basis of evidence instead of on the basis of emotion. In fact, I would prefer that people NOT "believe". OTOH, I have thought long AND HARD about my opinions, I've honed them against a lot of years of experience, and I'm not going to roll over just because you're frothing in the mouth about something. If you're going to change my mind, you have to CONVINCE me, something that you're (so far) incapable of doing. (And, no, it's not going to be on the basis of how strongly you "feel" something, that was my point.)

Quote:
I really don't think that is what the problem is. More education would solve this anti-intellectualism but I think the real problem is: “It's better not to know.”

Hmmm ... I don't equate "education" with "intellectualism", so I guess my definition of "intellectualism" and "anti intellectualism" is a bit different.

It's important to be educated. After all, you don't want to have to individually recapitulate the entire history of intellectual achievement by yourself - from discovering fire to E= mC^2 - that would be insane as well as un-doable. The strength of humans (and also our downfall) is the complexity of the information that we can transmit from generation to generation.

But IMHO in order to be a TRUE intellectual - as opposed to a technician who simply absorbs and applies the received knowledge - one must be able to ASK INSIGHTFUL QUESTIONS in order to develop new knowledge.

I know that sounds suspiciously like a PhD program, and the process of defending a thesis and achieving a doctorates degree, but again IMHO anyone can be an intellectual, we simply have forgotten how/don't see the value of.






--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 6:54 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
If you want to see a country that matches the definition of anti-intellectual, look to laos in the 70's.
Thousands of Laotians were dispatched for "re-education" in remote parts of the country, where many died and many more were kept for up to ten years. Many of the professional and intellectual class left Laos. By 1977 10 percent of the population had left the country, including most of the business and educated classes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Laos_since_1945#Start_of_auth
oritarianism

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 9:59 AM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
If you want to see a country that matches the definition of anti-intellectual, look to laos in the 70's.
Thousands of Laotians were dispatched for "re-education" in remote parts of the country, where many died and many more were kept for up to ten years. Many of the professional and intellectual class left Laos. By 1977 10 percent of the population had left the country, including most of the business and educated classes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Laos_since_1945#Start_of_auth
oritarianism


Yeah it was a real mess. I think Magansdaugthers' article misses the mark and stereotypes the American people.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 10:28 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Anti-intellectualizm delt a crippling blow to Poland during WW2.
[url= http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/world-war-two/world-war-two-and-e
astern-europe/the-katyn-wood-massacre/]Katyn Woodz Masacr[/url]
Quote:
It is known that they were taken to three camps in Russia – Kozelsk, Starobelsk and Ostashkov. One of the camps, Kozelsk, contained more than just officers. It contained arrested Polish university lecturers, surgeons, physicians, barristers and lawyers. One woman prisoner was held at Kozelsk – Janina Lewandowski. Her body was found at Katyn clothed in the uniform of the Polish Air Force. Ostashkov held officers – but it also held anybody from Poland who was considered to be ‘bourgeois’. It seems that only Starobelsk held only officers from the Polish military.


(Coud sumbody get the boss to fix the link machinery? finally. gorrammit.)

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 11:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Plenty of well educated bigots, shitbirds, and assholes. I'll go for compassion, selflessness, empathy and other traits that are much harder to teach.- G

HAHAHAHA!!!!!
*wipes eyes*
Says the man who just wants to bomb people!!!!
You owe me a keyboard, for the coffee that I managed to spray all over it. Son, you don't even KNOW when you're being a psychopath! That's why you can manage to write this with (presumably) a straight face. But that's like most anti-intellectuals: no perspective, no self-reflection. -SIGNY

So when I said we should drone strike FIFA you thought I was being serious?-G

No, of course not.
Quote:
You can't make this stuff up folks.
And I'm not!

Quote:
And if not that when did I ever say we should bomb anyone? I'll wait while you ignore that question.
Your reaction to America's history of invasions etc make it pretty clear that you don't mind if we (or our allies) kill people, even millions of people. "America" thrived by committing a continuous act of genocide, slavery, sexism, and imperialism. All those killed ... it just doesn't mean that much to you. If it did, you would object to it.


Quote:
You mean like how you feel about Twitter? ... I am actually emotionally, passionately pro great big new ideas btw - but I guess you knew that.
No, you're not. A REAL new idea - like, that maybe the USA isn't the paragon of virtue that you believe - just bounces off. And Twitter isn't an "idea", it's a technology which is based on a whole set of memes that you already embrace: individualism, the virtualization of experience, convenience, and brevity. I'm not "against" Twitter (except for the fact that it, along with FB, Instagram, Disqus, LinkedIn, Google, and even Amazon are all infested by the NSA) but if you recall our previous conversation about it, YOU used Twitter as an example of how the "new generation" is technologically superior because they use Twitter, and I was pointing out that knowing a set of apps isn't knowing technology.

Quote:
Don't think we missed how you are instructing us on "how to be an intellectual." Class is in session!
Well, in my opinion ... and of course who else's opinion should I be writing? ... you DON'T know how to be an intellectual.

I've told you what I think an intellectual is, and that is a person who can ask insightful questions that take our knowledge in new directions, EVEN IF that knowledge conflicts with previous constructs. And yes, I think I have achieved at least a certain amount of freedom of thought, which allows me to look at events and think/predict things that are NOT pushed by our media. And been correct enough of the time where by now I should have some street cred.

And you?

One of the things that intellectuals HAVE to do is to be able to entertain perceptions, ideas and conclusions that are uncomfortable, at least long and placidly enough to be able to tell if they correspond to reality. REALITY isn't always comfortable. It's not always the story that we want to hear.

The problem that most people have (including me) is that we have been trained to "test" our knowledge by how we feel about it, because we have been taught that our FEELINGS are the most true and the most authentic. But our FEELINGS - what makes us afraid, what we want, what makes us happy, what makes us outraged - have very little correspondence to reality, and in fact it is our FEELINGS that dictators and con artists and advertisers manipulate to their own benefit. I could point out Hitler, who used the German feelings of despair and uncertainty during the Weimar years to wrap the people around him, by providing an explanation and an action that would remove doubt and fear and return the German people to a state of certainty and pride and confidence. Putin, who is using Ukraine and western sanctions to whip the people up into a state of patriotic fervor, giving him license to eliminate the "fifth column" of oligarchs and pro-westerners and slowly re-socialize the economy. Or Bush, who used 9-11 to fill Americans with fear, and convince them to destroy Iraq (which had nothing at all to do with 9-11.)

Did you notice how it is people's EMOTIONS that are getting yanked?

So, stop being yanked and try being more objective.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 11:47 AM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:





The Chinese came to the United States and built your railways. They took some of the most dangerous jobs ie loading the areas for blasting to make the tunnels through the Rockies. It happened in Canada too.


While it's true that the Chinese were involved in the building of our railroads, it is also true that the Irish and other ethnicities took part as well.

It was same then as it is now, who can the exploiters of people exploit. Isn't that what out sourcing jobs to countries that will allow slave labor is all about? Do the exploiters care what color your skin is? I don't think so.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 11:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
They have very little power and need to center changes from within
If they have very little power, they CAN'T center changes from within.

What are blacks supposed to do, if they face unrelenting racism 24/7/365?

EVEN IF they get a good education, they still face difficulties finding jobs. And if they can't get jobs in the larger culture, are they supposed to make their own jobs? If so, who is their market - their own impoverished group?

If they can't find good housing, are they supposed to make their own? With what money?

IF the police are constantly harassing them, are they supposed to kick the official police out and become their own police force?

Unfortunately, blacks have exactly filled the niche that the larger culture has created: a group of people that no matter how much they contribute and how hard they try will never be rewarded commensurately for their efforts. A permanently impoverished group which exists in a culture that ONLY respects money and violence.

-----------

Did you know that at one time the British killed and enslaved more Irish than the American nation did blacks?

Exploiters will exploit, and it can be on the basis of religion, language, skin color, gender, or even hair color. But in THIS culture, we are prejudiced on the basis of skin color. It's plain as day. So all of the lighter-skinned ethnicities got to "blend in" and climb that ladder, but the darker your skin, the more racism you suffer.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 12:06 PM

THGRRI


When we live locally and strengthen our communities, we become stronger and better able to adapt to changes in the economy, climate, and energy availability. Each community is unique and has its own needs, whether it be public transportation, sustainable food resources, strengthening local businesses, reducing carbon emissions, increasing recycling and reducing waste, building community gardens and parks,… the list is varied and lengthy.

The types of groups where you might find local people who are interested in creating community-wide change include: disaster preparedness groups, peak oil, climate change and environmental groups (those working in your local community), gardening outreach organizations, programs that help fight homelessness, food banks, community gardens/allotments, neighborhood associations, block watch programs, neighborhood, city and town councils, city and neighborhood sustainability boards, youth programs, PTA meetings, community center events, earth day and other “green” fairs, city or town Department of Neighborhoods, native planting/invasive species clearing groups, local animal welfare societies, university campus groups,… the list goes on.

1. Help teach a younger child to read.

2. Help cook and/or serve a meal at a homeless shelter.

3. Gather clothing from your neighbors and donate it to a local shelter.

4. Make “I Care” kits with combs, toothbrushes, shampoo, etc. for the homeless.

5. Pack and hand out food at a local food bank.

6. Adopt a “grand friend” and write them letters and visit them.

7. Visit senior citizens at a nursing home.

8. Rake leaves, shovel snow, clean gutters, or wash windows for a senior citizen.

9. Pick up groceries or medicine for an elderly person.

10. Go for a walk with a senior citizen in your community.

11. Deliver meals to homebound individuals.

12. Hold an afternoon dance for your local nursing home.

13. Teach a senior friend how to use a computer and the Internet.

14. Paint a mural over graffiti.

15. Invite local police officers to present a drug awareness or safety program.

16. Tutor a student that needs help learning English or another subject.

17. Organize a canned goods drive.

18. Clean up a vacant lot or park.

19. Organize a campaign to raise money to purchase and install playground equipment.

20. Plant flowers in public areas that could use some color.

21. Volunteer to help at a Special Olympics event.

22. Set up a buddy system for kids with special needs in your community.

23. Raise money for Braille books for visually impaired people.

24. Read books or the newspaper on tape for visually impaired people.

25. Bring toys to children in the cancer ward of a hospital.

26. Contact your local political representative about key issues.

27. Register people to vote.

28. Organize a public issues forum for your neighborhood.

29. Volunteer at a polling booth the day of an election.

30. Take a friend to the polling booths.

31. Vote.

32. Offer to pass out election materials.

33. Plant a garden or tree where the whole neighborhood can enjoy it.

34. Set up a recycling system for your home.

35. Organize a carpooling campaign in your neighborhood.

36. Adopt an acre of a rainforest.

37. Clean up trash along a river, beach, or in a park.

38. Create a habitat for wildlife.

39. Create a campaign to encourage biking and walking.

40. Test the health of the water in your local lakes, rivers, and streams.

41. Contact your local volunteer center for opportunities to serve.

42. Volunteer at your local animal shelter.

43. Help build a home with Habitat for Humanity.

44. Walk a neighbor's dog or pet sit while they are on vacation.

45. Teach Sunday school.

46. Learn to be a peer counselor.

47. Send a letter to one of America's veterans or overseas soldiers.

48. Volunteer at your local youth center.

49. Participate in a marathon for your favorite charity.

50. Become a candy striper at your local hospital.

51. Mentor a young person.

52. Serve your country by joining AmeriCorps.

53. Become a volunteer firefighter or EMT.

54. Donate books to your local library.

55. Donate clothes to the Salvation Army.

56. Start a book club in your area.

57. Adopt a pet from the Humane Society.

58. Hold a door open for someone.

59. Give up your seat on the bus or train to someone.

60. Donate your old computer to a school.

61. Give blood.

62. Coach a children's sports team.

63. Become an organ donor.

64. Teach a dance class.

65. Participate in Job Shadow Day (February 2).

66. Organize a project for National Youth Service Day (visit www.ysa.org/nysd).

67. Volunteer on a hotline.

68. Meet with local representatives from your area.

69. Don't drink and drive.

70. Listen to others.

71. Write a letter to the editor about an issue you care about.

72. Bring others with you when you volunteer.

73. Shop at local, family owned businesses.

74. Become a Big Brother or Big Sister.

75. Take a historical tour of your community.

76. Write a note to a teacher that had a positive effect on you.

77. Get together with some friends to buy holiday presents for a family at a shelter.

78. Recycle.

79. Drive responsibly.

80. Get CPR and First Aid certification.

81. Don't litter.

82. Shop responsibly.

83. Don't spread or start gossip.

84. Tell someone that you appreciate him/her.

85. Hold a teddy bear drive for foster children, fire victims, etc.

86. Make a care package for an elderly or shut-in person.

87. Teach at an adult literacy center.

88. Sing for residents at a nursing home.

89. Befriend a new student or neighbor.

90. Baby sit.

91. Look for the good in all people.

92. Coordinate a book drive.

93. Donate money to your favorite charity.

94. Make quilts or baby clothes for low-income families.

95. Bake cookies and bring them to your local fire or police station.

96. Donate toys or suitcases to foster children.

97. When visiting someone in a hospital, talk to someone that doesn't have many visitors.

98. Around the holidays, visit the Post Office and answer some letters to Santa.

99. Start a neighborhood welcome committee.

100.Visit www.SERVEnet.org to find volunteer opportunities in your area.

A quote from G to Sig confronting Sig because she believes she knows better than most. Well then Sig it's a good thing you're not the one responsible for lifting people in poverty up, because you are a fatalist. Some of us realize that in life you do not have to accept the role of victim.

Quote:
Siggy believes in Siggy knows best. Poor little citizens, Siggy will help you! Regular people are just too stupid to handle their freedom!



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 12:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Basically, THGR, you are telling blacks to build their own alternate economy within a larger one: grow their own food, tend to their own sick and disabled. But when it gets to more complex needs, like MRIs and CT scans and pharmaceutics, or larger projects like building a multistory building, or technologically-advanced purchases like smart phones, or even making glass or cloth or steel, the smaller economy will have to interact with the larger (or go without, and become like the Mennonites or the Amish.)

I'm all about cooperatives, and economies which can be isolated to smaller elements in times of stress and still survive. But there are limitations to that approach because a smaller economy can never achieve the same level of development as a larger one, and as long as it interacts with the larger one (and the larger one continues to prey on the smaller) the semi-independent community will continue to bleed. Ultimately, the smaller economy will need its own source of financing, its own currency, even, and trade with other entities.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 12:21 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Basically, THGR, you are telling blacks to build their own alternate economy within a larger one: grow your own food, tend to your own sick and disabled. But when it gets to more complex needs, like MRIs and CT scans and pharmaceutics, or larger projects like building a multistory building, or technologically-advanced purchases like smart phones, or even making glass or cloth or steel, the smaller economy will have to interact with the larger (or go without, and become like the Mennonites or the Amish.)

The problem is that a smaller economy can never achieve the same level of development as the larger one, and as long as it interacts with the larger one (and the larger one continues to prey on the smaller) the semi-independent community will continue to bleed. Ultimately, the smaller economy will need its own source of financing, its own currency, even.



No asshole, these are things they are already beginning to do for themselves and I say yea for them. I didn't figure out what I posted in reply to you moron. THEY DID and you not recognizing these as positive solutions to the problems of impoverished neighborhoods goes to G's point. You are clueless. And I would add, nothing but a whiner.

If these neighborhoods follow through business will follow. Build it and they will come.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 12:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, I guess we'll see what the results will be. The issue is, I've seen this before, in the 70s. A whole black pride movement, patronize black businesses, black adults teaching black children. Create a self-sufficient community. It didn't work then. Maybe it will work now.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 12:38 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And if "they" already did, why are the results so dismal?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.


This is why I don't respond to you anymore, although on occasion it's great to assist you in showing how much of a moron you are.

These are some of the positive things going on within these neighborhoods as opposed to the negative. Only you would define it as a failing strategy and essentially call these people losers.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 12:50 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, I guess we'll see what the results will be. The issue is, I've seen this before, in the 70s. A whole black pride movement, patronize black businesses, black adults teaching black children. Create a self-sufficient community. It didn't work then. Maybe it will work now.



Again stupid because what you are speaking about is segregation and I am not. I am talking about trying to create a community that others would not mind being a part of. I am talking about making a community attractive to other communities in an attempt to integrate with them. To create, buy and sell.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 1:07 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And if "they" already did, why are the results so dismal?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.


This is why I don't respond to you anymore, although on occasion it's great to assist you in showing how much of a moron you are.

These are some of the positive things going on within these neighborhoods as opposed to the negative. Only you would define it as a failing strategy and essentially call these people losers.



Wow, what happened to the post I quote from you above about the results of positive programs being so dismal in theses neighborhoods?

And Sig the one who Magonsdaugther suggests makes the best argument about anti-intellectualism taking place in America, shows how sometimes the intellectual is clueless. This is why some say the issues cited in the article are complicated, and can't be explained away by saying they are due to anti-intellectualism.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 2:00 PM

THGRRI


G, check it out, silence.





NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 25, 2015 4:00 PM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb


Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Plenty of well educated bigots, shitbirds, and assholes. I'll go for compassion, selflessness, empathy and other traits that are much harder to teach.- G

HAHAHAHA!!!!!
*wipes eyes*
Says the man who just wants to bomb people!!!!
You owe me a keyboard, for the coffee that I managed to spray all over it. Son, you don't even KNOW when you're being a psychopath! That's why you can manage to write this with (presumably) a straight face. But that's like most anti-intellectuals: no perspective, no self-reflection. -SIGNY

So when I said we should drone strike FIFA you thought I was being serious?-G

No, of course not.
Quote:
You can't make this stuff up folks.
And I'm not!

Quote:
And if not that when did I ever say we should bomb anyone? I'll wait while you ignore that question.
Your reaction to America's history of invasions [ what reaction??? The one you made up? } etc make it pretty clear that you don't mind if we (or our allies) kill people, even millions of people [HUH??]. "America" thrived by committing a continuous act of genocide, slavery, sexism, and imperialism. All those killed ... it just doesn't mean that much to you. If it did, you would object to it. [I have, just not to your worthless ass]


Quote:
You mean like how you feel about Twitter? ... I am actually emotionally, passionately pro great big new ideas btw - but I guess you knew that.
No, you're not. [BRAWHAHA! You know what I think.... FACT is you have no clue... ] A REAL new idea - like, that maybe the USA isn't the paragon of virtue that you believe [where did I say that?] - just bounces off. And Twitter isn't an "idea", it's a technology which is based on a whole set of memes that you already embrace: individualism, the virtualization of experience, convenience, and brevity. I'm not "against" Twitter (except for the fact that it, along with FB, Instagram, Disqus, LinkedIn, Google, and even Amazon are all infested by the NSA) but if you recall our previous conversation about it, YOU used Twitter as an example of how the "new generation" is technologically superior because they use Twitter, and I was pointing out that knowing a set of apps isn't knowing technology. [ that's not what you really think - ha! see how it works dipshit? ]

Quote:
Don't think we missed how you are instructing us on "how to be an intellectual." Class is in session!
Well, in my opinion ... and of course who else's opinion should I be writing? ... you DON'T know how to be an intellectual. [ oh no's! ]

I've told you what I think an intellectual is, and that is a person who can ask insightful questions that take our knowledge in new directions, EVEN IF that knowledge conflicts with previous constructs. And yes, I think I have achieved at least a certain amount of freedom of thought, which allows me to look at events and think/predict things that are NOT pushed by our media. And been correct enough of the time where by now I should have some street cred.

And you?

One of the things that intellectuals HAVE to do is to be able to entertain perceptions, ideas and conclusions that are uncomfortable, at least long and placidly enough to be able to tell if they correspond to reality. REALITY isn't always comfortable. It's not always the story that we want to hear.

The problem that most people have (including me) is that we have been trained to "test" our knowledge by how we feel about it, because we have been taught that our FEELINGS are the most true and the most authentic. But our FEELINGS - what makes us afraid, what we want, what makes us happy, what makes us outraged - have very little correspondence to reality, and in fact it is our FEELINGS that dictators and con artists and advertisers manipulate to their own benefit. I could point out Hitler, who used the German feelings of despair and uncertainty during the Weimar years to wrap the people around him, by providing an explanation and an action that would remove doubt and fear and return the German people to a state of certainty and pride and confidence. Putin, who is using Ukraine and western sanctions to whip the people up into a state of patriotic fervor, giving him license to eliminate the "fifth column" of oligarchs and pro-westerners and slowly re-socialize the economy. Or Bush, who used 9-11 to fill Americans with fear, and convince them to destroy Iraq (which had nothing at all to do with 9-11.)

Did you notice how it is people's EMOTIONS that are getting yanked?

So, stop being yanked and try being more objective.



Oh my god... you are so fucking clueless... this is a watershed post from you.

So when I tell you I don't believe in any bombing of anyone ever you tell me I don't really think that?!? That when I say that, what I really mean is I want to bomb people... Huh?!? Why do you ask me any questions when you'll just tell me that's not what I'm thinking? Do you see how f*cked your thinking is? And you want to be considered an Intellectual??

You know, you keep proving THGGRI right.

Back to ignoring your annoying, crazy ass.


I wonder where these mysterious "truth posts" are that show what "G" "really" thinks about the Bush years (Or when the hell else we're bombing things).

I'll wait for links to quotes. You know, evidence.



Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, June 26, 2015 10:15 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



My god, THUGR, you sure get all hot under the collar if anyone even sounds a little doubtful about your POV!


You think because you print a list of things maybe are being done in scattershot fashion in various places across the N American continent [AND BTW, YOUR LINK DOESN'T WORK] that you've presented a case for a "winning strategy"? Those programs that you listed: Did they ...

Reduce crime?
Improve housing?
Raise the level of health?
Increase income?
Improve emergency response?

... anywhere?

If you want to demonstrate that volunteer community programs are a "winning strategy", you have to first of all define your goal(s), and then demonstrate that your approach is meeting those goal(s). If you REALLY want to hit the trifecta, you have to show that your "strategy" is getting to those goals faster, more thoroughly, or with less input than other strategies.

Feel free to make your case!

-----------
So, thinking of community volunteerism being a "winning strategy"...

Jews in concentration camps - they really could have made their little community less hellish if they had only volunteered to help each other out. Correct? If not, what were the constraints that would have made that approach unrealistic and ineffective?

N Koreans can really address their starvation problem by community volunteer programs, right?

Haitians can lift themselves up by their bootstraps. Correct?

And Cubans ....?

I think whether or not a group is able to measurably improve its existence depends on the situation that its in, which is on a spectrum of possibilities. At one end of the spectrum, it can absolutely be done, and on another end of a spectrum it can't. So, in what cases can/does community volunteerism make a difference, and in what cases is it ineffective, and why?

-------------

I want to reiterate my point - one that you sort of slipped past- and that's that I'm all for community volunteer programs and cooperatives. I am. Not because I think they'll make a measurable difference in most communities* (however defined) but simply because they foster a sense of belonging and caring about each other.

*But in order to make a measurable difference, community programs must be fairly wrap-around. Yanno, complete. A volunteer community trash pickup will help pick up trash, but as long as predatory lending, lack of ownership, and low incomes exist, it will not improve property values or housing stock. But if programs are to succeed they need, like I said, to be complete, like the Amish, where one can actually make a living in the community and most aspects of life are defined by the community.

The response of blacks to their continued domination/exploitation by the majority population has swung from demanding integration and equal rights to bootstrapping. The last major bootstrap program WAS black pride, whether you choose to recognize it or not. It failed for a variety of reasons, one of which being its leaders were mostly killed by the police. Nothing has changed. Blacks are STILL getting killed by the police. I also look at the media as being a major problem, because while black pride sought to establish different goals and empower blacks to do for themselves, the white corporate media continued to blast out its message of consumerism, individualism, and helplessness ... all of which are toxic to a community approach.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, June 26, 2015 10:26 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


G, RALPH-

All I have to do is point to the unending "RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE" thread, in which G obsesses ENDLESSLY about a phantom invasion and national boundaries, but can barely be bothered to mention that Kiev killed thousands of people by shelling civilian centers (Oh, and BTW, that's apparently Russia's fault for "hiding among" the civilian population.)

Yanno, frankly, I don't care whether Russia invades Ukraine or whether Ukraine invades Russia.

What I DO look at is who violating people's rights more, starting with that most primary right, which is the right to life. Killing is killing, whether it is starving, bombing, or neglecting people to death.

So start counting the bodies and THEN figure out which side you're on (if any). And stop putting other things ahead of that priority.




--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, June 26, 2015 10:38 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
....the majority of people who now post here fit this category as described "motivated by fear, susceptible to tribalism and simplistic explanations, incapable of emotional maturity, and prone to violent solutions.


It's a lack uv stratejy that keeps the science/skeptic/athiest 'movement' from moving. All they really want to do iz skoff at relijun and woo.

Getting to kidz befor the idea that tradition and authority are more important than lojik formz the foundation uv their thot prosess iz essentail.

The way our early education system works now iz the exact oppozit and viola!, the so called 'civilization' we hav bilt iz chock full uv all sorts uv wakt out nonsens.

If you want to complain about anti-intellectualizm, MD, look at how youv responded to my effort to do sumthing about it. Look how all the suppozed thinkerz here and elswer online hav responded.


----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, June 26, 2015 10:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
The way our early education system works now iz the exact oppozit and viola!, the so called 'civilization' we hav bilt iz chock full uv all sorts uv wakt out nonsens.
Exactly.

I know this is going to start a little far afield but ... I saw a really interesting program that explored the difference between people and {other} animals, and they went through all of the supposed human abilities - language, tool use, culture, self-knowledge (ie when you recognize "self" in a mirror), knowledge of the mind of the other (ie when you have an idea of what the other should know), sense of fairness, grief at death of a loved one, teaching and learning ... and one by one destroyed the notion that humans are qualitatively different from {other} animals.

However, there was ONE measure where humans displayed a vastly different behavior, and that was our youngs' ability to accept a teaching that didn't correspond to reality. In other words, when what was taught (how to open a box with a treat inside) differed from observable reality (stripping away the extra useless steps that the teacher had embedded in the lesson) the children deferred to what they were TAUGHT, not what they OBSERVED. Gorillas and chimps immediately dispensed with the pointless steps.

This is both a "bug" and a "feature" in human mentation. On the one hand, we can teach useful - but complex abstract/not directly observable- concepts like "electrons" and "quarks" and have the next generation build on those concepts.

On the other hand, it also allows the transmission of completely baseless information, like "god" and "purple dragons", which the next generation will continue to operate with.

Its impossible to eliminate that dysfunctional aspect of human thought.


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, June 26, 2015 1:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


G, I'm sure you think you're a caring person, and where it doesn't interfere with your ideologies you probably are. But you seem to care more about which "side" someone is on, not how many people they're killing, and you spend an inordinate amount of time obsessing over it. Some "facts" and "details" and "truth" get magnified (in your mind) until they loom larger than events which are, in reality, of greater concern. (at least, if you're really concerned about human rights.)

So, why don't you decide WHICH ethics are important to you, and be consistent about them, instead of switching from one set to another? If you're going to be pro-American, be pro-American. If you're going to be against violence, be against violence. If you want to seek reality, seek reality. Don't try to make them all mesh together, because they won't.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, June 26, 2015 1:28 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

My god, THUGR, you sure get all hot under the collar if anyone even sounds a little doubtful about your POV!




My harshness towards you is not baseed on a post. It comes from a history of posting with you which is why I stopped. You're a moron and my time with you in this thread is over.

Sig
Quote:

G, I'm sure you think you're a caring person, and where it doesn't interfere with your ideologies you probably are.


Now let me make clear I have watched G show you to be a fool with every engagement he has had with you but I have to address this because it goes to my point. I started a thread about Putin's screw-ups to see how you and kiki would respond. I posted many different stories to see if you would latch onto one.

Nope Sig not a one. I offer it as proof that you are the one who runs off ideologies, certainly not G.

What pathetic losers you and kiki are. And by the way, there are a couple of us in this thread that are waiting for you to back up you statements about G with facts. Not more of your bullshit and lies.

Here's the thread to my Putin thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=59702

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, June 26, 2015 1:30 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

My god, THUGR, you sure get all hot under the collar if anyone even sounds a little doubtful about your POV!




My harshness towards you is not base on a post. It comes from a history of posting with you which is why I stopped. You're a moron and my time with you in this thread is over.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Well, since you're clearly NOT responding to my posts IN THIS THREAD, maybe you shouldn't be posting here at all?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
President Meathead's Uncle Was Not Eaten By Cannibals
Fri, April 19, 2024 17:21 - 1 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Fri, April 19, 2024 17:03 - 3535 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Fri, April 19, 2024 15:17 - 6268 posts
I'm surprised there's not an inflation thread yet
Fri, April 19, 2024 13:10 - 743 posts
Elections; 2024
Fri, April 19, 2024 10:01 - 2274 posts
BREAKING NEWS: Taylor Swift has a lot of ex-boyfriends
Fri, April 19, 2024 09:18 - 1 posts
This is what baseball bats are for, not to mention you're the one in a car...
Thu, April 18, 2024 23:38 - 1 posts
FACTS
Thu, April 18, 2024 19:48 - 548 posts
Biden's a winner, Trumps a loser. Hey Jack, I Was Right
Thu, April 18, 2024 18:38 - 148 posts
QAnons' representatives here
Thu, April 18, 2024 17:58 - 777 posts
Why does THUGR shit up the board by bumping his pointless threads?
Thu, April 18, 2024 12:38 - 9 posts
human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Thu, April 18, 2024 10:21 - 834 posts
 VIEW MORE TOPICS 

FFF.NET SOCIAL