REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

How psychopaths control society, and why we don't do anything about it

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, November 23, 2015 21:38
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 14542
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Monday, December 22, 2014 11:54 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

My knowledge of Putin consists of knowing he overplayed his hand as I stated in a post months ago. There is no way he gets out of the mess he created in the Ukraine without losing face. I am enjoying watching him squirm. As far as the Russian people go, as long as there hate for America at this point in history persists, I will enjoy watching them squirm and cry uncle as well. Besides, I have little respect for a country where the population are slaves to the government and like it.
Wow, you sure do know a lot, THUGR!


You should at least read the link I posted. It will add to whatever store of knowledge that you already have.

--------------



What, you thought by asking I would waste my time giving a comprehensive and thorough report on Putin, just for you to dismiss it as nonsense? Have you learned nothing about me yet?

Here is my report, fuck you comrade. Here is a history lesson. After World War 11 there was a place called the Soviet Union. All that is left 65 years later is a place called Russia which is still being criticized and sanctioned by the rest of the world. In another forty or so years Russia will have a free and democratic government and the bullshit will end.

Comrade


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Monday, December 22, 2014 1:02 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Saw the press conferences or read about them - naturally you assume otherwise - because *only Signym* knows or cares - what a pure ego f*ck you are.




I too watched Putin's 3 hr. press conference. It was not unexpected for him to blame America for all their woes and to play to the countries patriotism to fall in line with what he is doing. I saw people from Russia interviewed and the problem is not that they really believe Putin, it is more that they think every government does nothing but lie. Hence why Sig is the way she is. Any doubt she is Russian?

It was also not unexpected that Facebook caved and will not allow Russians who support Putin's nemesis to view a page dedicated to him. The guy who owns Facebook is a real creep. Someone else I would like to see go away.


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Monday, December 22, 2014 1:34 PM

THGRRI


A sociopath started this thread about psychopaths.

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others. In the case of Sig, we all see what is desired by her. To support her beloved Russia at all costs. One way in which she does this is to cast aspersions and spew slanderous remarks about other persons and countries.


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Monday, December 22, 2014 1:38 PM

THGRRI


1 2 3 4..


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Tuesday, December 23, 2014 12:24 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:


Saw the press conferences or read about them - naturally you assume otherwise - because *only Signym* knows or cares - what a pure ego f*ck you are.-G

Well, they were very long! So, did you see them, or just read "about" them?

Quote:

You don't care about Kiev killing thousands of civilians and displacing a million. -SIGNY

I care more than you do. I was the first to post about it.-G

To quote Geezer: Cites please? Because, yanno, everything that you wrote that I could find says the opposite.

Quote:

You don't care about the USA killing millions of civilians.-SIGNY

I care way, way more than you do on that one.-G

Well, you sure have a funny way of showing it! You don't write about it, you don't complain about it, and every time I bring it up, you dismiss it. I point to your quotes as evidence. But, if you have posted to the contrary, I again quote Geezer: Cites please?

Quote:

No, the REAL story is that whatever Russia does is bad. Bad, bad, bad! By comparison, the USA and Kiev are so uninteresting you can hardly be bothered to think about them.-SIGNY

Signym likes to tell other people what they are thinking - how does she do it? Oh, she makes shit up!

No, you nitwit, I quoted you. Just like you asked for. ("I'll wait patently while you Make Shit Up Again, er, I mean check. Go on - find it!")

In your own words. I thought you expressed yourself quite well pretty much all the way around!


No interpretation on my part needed.


Right now, all you're doing is blah-blah-blah. And more blah-blah-blah. What a waste of time.

Anyway, I think it's time we closed this particular line in the thread with a Merry Xmas, and I hope you have a wonderful holiday.

If anyone has anything to post on the ORIGINAL TOPIC, I would be very happy to read about if after Xmas.
--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, December 26, 2014 7:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Post Christmas bump.

Musta' been some x-mas




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, December 26, 2014 7:16 PM

THGRRI


Originally posted by THGRRI:

A sociopath started this thread about psychopaths.

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others. In the case of Sig, we all see what is desired by her. To support her beloved Russia at all costs. One way in which she does this is to cast aspersions and spew slanderous remarks about other persons and countries.




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Friday, December 26, 2014 8:18 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Are you not ashamed to be so publicly ignorant about so many topics?

https://www.google.com/#q=sociopath




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, December 26, 2014 8:46 PM

THGRRI



Originally posted by THGRRI:

A sociopath started this thread about psychopaths.

Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others. In the case of Sig, we all see what is desired by her. To support her beloved Russia at all costs. One way in which she does this is to cast aspersions and spew slanderous remarks about other persons and countries.


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Saturday, December 27, 2014 12:06 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Are you not ashamed to be so publicly ignorant about so many topics?

https://www.google.com/#q=sociopath




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, December 27, 2014 12:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

What I don't get is why you are so anti-gay. I understand you being against free speech, but hatin' on the LGBT community just doesn't make sense - unless going backwards is the plan. Revisiting the Soviet past maybe?


Well, I hate to quote myself, but I will ...

Quote:

Anyway, I think it's time we closed this particular line in the thread with a Merry Xmas, and I hope you have a wonderful holiday.

If anyone has anything to post on the ORIGINAL TOPIC, I would be very happy to read about if after Xmas.

G, whatever I said about you was based on what you said. I don't intend to rehash your quotes as nauseum because, yanno, it only reinforces what I said. But if you have something to say on the original topic, I'd be interested in discussing it.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, December 27, 2014 12:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

One way in which she does this is to cast aspersions and spew slanderous remarks about other persons and countries.
Oh, you mean like ....
Quote:

What I don't get is why you are so anti-gay. I understand you being against free speech, but hatin' on the LGBT community just doesn't make sense - unless going backwards is the plan. Revisiting the Soviet past maybe? -G


OR...
Quote:

A sociopath started this thread about psychopaths.-THUGR


The funny thing is, the person who whined the loudest about me "making shit up" (and who seems terribly invested in running away from what he wrote) ... makes shit up. The person who whinges the most about me casting aspersions... casts aspersions.

That's all I'm going to say on that topic to you.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, December 27, 2014 9:58 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


" Many sociopaths are delusional to the point where they believe that their lies are the truth."

1kiki to a T

Nailed it !

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Saturday, December 27, 2014 3:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Looks like he publicly nailed it to me - from your link:

"...manipulative behavior, unchecked egocentricity, and the ability to lie in order to achieve one's goals."


I had MANY potential sources for people to educate themselves. Did you cherry pick just one? And also - Who 'he'? You? KPO? THUGR? Rappy? Obama? Limbaugh? Bush (Jr and Sr)?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, December 27, 2014 3:45 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:


I had MANY potential sources for people to educate themselves. Did you cherry pick just one? And also - Who 'he'? You? KPO? THUGR? Rappy? Obama? Limbaugh? Bush (Jr and Sr)?



You posted one link 1kiki to the definition of what a sociopath is. So now you turn to subjective posting. You really are fucked up.


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Saturday, December 27, 2014 4:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You are so fucking stupid it's not even funny. I posted the link to a google search. https://www.google.com/#q=sociopath That result has 'About 4,980,000 results (0.16 seconds)'. And out of ALL THAT, you says there's only one result. That makes you about (4,980,000 - 1) (0.16 seconds) times stupid.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, December 27, 2014 4:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Oh, and rappy - aside from being a perv and a liar, I'm sure this isn't the first time you've heard 'there's something seriously wrong with that boy'.

Your mother knew. Sadness in her when she waved goodbye, but she's relieved. Saw
darkness in you. You're not well.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, December 27, 2014 4:40 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
You are so fucking stupid it's not even funny. I posted the link to a google search. https://www.google.com/#q=sociopath That result has 'About 4,980,000 results (0.16 seconds)'. And out of ALL THAT, you says there's only one result. That makes you about (4,980,000 - 1) (0.16 seconds) times stupid.



Unlike you I realize that once someone follows the link one definition will be chosen and read. Anyone(you)who thinks more than one definition or dictionary needs to be read explaining what a sociopath is, is a moron. Or in your case, someone who is covering their tracks by suggesting that if others looked further somehow the meaning would change, favoring your assumption that it does not apply to you and SIG. Again nothing but subjective posting.

The first one is what I chose the first time and again this time. In other words you led me right back to where I got my definition in the first place, STUPID.

Here it is again.

"Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others".


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Sunday, December 28, 2014 1:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Imagine - if you can - not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken.

And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.

Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless.

You are not held back from any of your desires by guilt or shame, and you are never confronted by others for your cold-bloodedness. The ice water in your veins is so bizarre, so completely outside of their personal experience, that they seldom even guess at your condition.

In other words, you are completely free of internal restraints, and your unhampered liberty to do just as you please, with no pangs of conscience, is conveniently invisible to the world.

You can do anything at all, and still your strange advantage over the majority of people, who are kept in line by their consciences will most likely remain undiscovered.

How will you live your life?


http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, December 28, 2014 1:52 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Unlike you I realize that once someone follows the link one definition will be chosen and read. Anyone(you)who thinks more than one definition or dictionary needs to be read explaining what a sociopath is, is a moron.



That's strange, because whole books have been written about the topic, that populate whole sections of libraries, and I've read roughly a dozen of them. brain function. brain structure. genetics. tests for. behavior. sociology of. prison population.

If you want an intro, read Hare. He literally wrote the book on the topic.

But yeah - you? Nearly 5 million results and you claimed: "You posted one link 1kiki to the definition ..." And then you doubled down on your own stupidity by saying well ANYbody would only read one. No - YOU would only read one out of 5 million. So you? Still a fucking moron. And so damn stupid you can't even admit you were wrong saying there was the definition when the were many definitions and literally millions of facts. Something obvious to everyone else - but you.

Apologies to morons for having to be included with you.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, December 28, 2014 1:54 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


How will you live your life?



snark removed




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, December 28, 2014 3:25 PM

THGRRI


Speaking with the two of you is like speaking to a

Anyone who waists time trying to change your perspective on an issue is not to bright themselves. No, I just like to pop in and state the obvious then move on.


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Sunday, December 28, 2014 3:29 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Unlike you I realize that once someone follows the link one definition will be chosen and read. Anyone(you)who thinks more than one definition or dictionary needs to be read explaining what a sociopath is, is a moron.



That's strange, because whole books have been written about the topic, that populate whole sections of libraries, and I've read roughly a dozen of them. brain function. brain structure. genetics. tests for. behavior. sociology of. prison population.

If you want an intro, read Hare. He literally wrote the book on the topic.

But yeah - you? Nearly 5 million results and you claimed: "You posted one link 1kiki to the definition ..." And then you doubled down on your own stupidity by saying well ANYbody would only read one. No - YOU would only read one out of 5 million. So you? Still a fucking moron. And so damn stupid you can't even admit you were wrong saying there was the definition when the were many definitions and literally millions of facts. Something obvious to everyone else - but you.

Apologies to morons for having to be included with you.


From the thread title, who could have foreseen that it would devolve into quibbling and bickering between resident psychopaths?

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Sunday, December 28, 2014 4:48 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


And you've learned so little you don't understand the difference in terms.

Great. Another opining village idiot.

Get in line with THUGR as one more useless piece of flesh.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, December 30, 2014 6:07 PM

BYTEMITE


Holy cripes on toast, this thread is a clusterfuck.

So I'm going to pour more fuel on the fire. And be surprisingly on topic.

Would it surprise any of you if I said that technically I don't think anyone who has posted before now in this thread qualifies under definitions of sociopathy? Some of you might be extreme in terms of ideology, some of you I might disagree with in terms of moral choices you've made or might be going to make. But I view all of YOU as fundamentally human.

Having a desire for control over one's surroundings and having a personalized perspective on what people are or what they are saying doesn't make someone a sociopath.

Hell, even not necessarily caring about strangers doesn't make someone a sociopath - sometimes you just don't have any money or any way to help a begger, and sometimes you just want to curl up with your cat for a while at home instead of deal with people. Sometimes you want to feel safe. That's fairly standard human behaviour. Most people can't be always on 100% of the time.

"I'm right, I'm justified, you're WRONG" is not sociopathy. However, it might be black and white thinking or splitting - which it seems a lot of you have been doing lately. Disagreeing on one thing suddenly changes whether or not someone is a bad or good person in your estimation.

Hey, it happens. In the heat of the moment, everyone does that. *I*'ve done that. And when I got especially ticked off, I turned self-destructive and started burning bridges - much like what we're seeing here in this thread from two people who except for Russia aren't that different in their beliefs.

Sociopathy is when you're willing to exploit or betray even people who are close to you, who you've known for years who have helped you and been kind to you, friends and family. Getting ahead at their severe detriment and your benefit and all the justifications about how you're right to do so. Whether for short-term gains, long-term gains, or the hell of it, the sociopath is ALWAYS thinking about themselves or how they can benefit themselves. Not sometimes when they're too tired or sick to do otherwise. Always.

Yes, they can care about people, yes they can have feelings for people (a scorned and rejected sociopath is terrifying to behold), sometimes, despite what most of the literature says, they can even regret what they are and what they do, even if they can't change.

But when they care about other people? They're thinking of it as a reciprocal exchange. They think of it as the other person owing them, and they see it as consequently that they OWN the other person.

Some of them become so bad (and are usually in such a high social position) that they start to think the whole WORLD owes them, and so they OWN the world. That's where you start to get problems.

Yes, our society feeds it a little by dividing people so strongly on political and ideological bases. When a person gives themselves up to a cause, they start seeing people on the other side as less human, and give up some of their own humanity in the process. But that is still not sociopathy. A person can still recover from that - provided they stop thinking about how right they are, and stop thinking about how the ends justify the means or about how this is all for the greater good, and stop thinking about how they've been hurt by others, and start thinking about how they're affecting other people. To do otherwise is to enable the REAL sociopaths.

Source: Your friendly neighborhood psycho nutjob.

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Tuesday, December 30, 2014 7:31 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


FWIW Byte -

the only people throwing around the 'sociopath' accusation are JSF, G and THUGR.

And - welcome back to the cesspool! How ya doing?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, December 30, 2014 9:47 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Holy cripes on toast, this thread is a clusterfuck.

So I'm going to pour more fuel on the fire. And be surprisingly on topic.

Would it surprise any of you if I said that technically I don't think anyone who has posted before now in this thread qualifies under definitions of sociopathy? Some of you might be extreme in terms of ideology, some of you I might disagree with in terms of moral choices you've made or might be going to make. But I view all of YOU as fundamentally human.

Having a desire for control over one's surroundings and having a personalized perspective on what people are or what they are saying doesn't make someone a sociopath.

Hell, even not necessarily caring about strangers doesn't make someone a sociopath - sometimes you just don't have any money or any way to help a begger, and sometimes you just want to curl up with your cat for a while at home instead of deal with people. Sometimes you want to feel safe. That's fairly standard human behaviour. Most people can't be always on 100% of the time.

"I'm right, I'm justified, you're WRONG" is not sociopathy. However, it might be black and white thinking or splitting - which it seems a lot of you have been doing lately. Disagreeing on one thing suddenly changes whether or not someone is a bad or good person in your estimation.

Hey, it happens. In the heat of the moment, everyone does that. *I*'ve done that. And when I got especially ticked off, I turned self-destructive and started burning bridges - much like what we're seeing here in this thread from two people who except for Russia aren't that different in their beliefs.

Sociopathy is when you're willing to exploit or betray even people who are close to you, who you've known for years who have helped you and been kind to you, friends and family. Getting ahead at their severe detriment and your benefit and all the justifications about how you're right to do so. Whether for short-term gains, long-term gains, or the hell of it, the sociopath is ALWAYS thinking about themselves or how they can benefit themselves. Not sometimes when they're too tired or sick to do otherwise. Always.

Yes, they can care about people, yes they can have feelings for people (a scorned and rejected sociopath is terrifying to behold), sometimes, despite what most of the literature says, they can even regret what they are and what they do, even if they can't change.

But when they care about other people? They're thinking of it as a reciprocal exchange. They think of it as the other person owing them, and they see it as consequently that they OWN the other person.

Some of them become so bad (and are usually in such a high social position) that they start to think the whole WORLD owes them, and so they OWN the world. That's where you start to get problems.

Yes, our society feeds it a little by dividing people so strongly on political and ideological bases. When a person gives themselves up to a cause, they start seeing people on the other side as less human, and give up some of their own humanity in the process. But that is still not sociopathy. A person can still recover from that - provided they stop thinking about how right they are, and stop thinking about how the ends justify the means or about how this is all for the greater good, and stop thinking about how they've been hurt by others, and start thinking about how they're affecting other people. To do otherwise is to enable the REAL sociopaths.

Source: Your friendly neighborhood psycho nutjob.



Yes to all of the above.

Internet trolls seem to have some of the sociopathic tendancies, and by trolls i mean the kind of people who torment parents who have lost children by posting obscenities on memorial pages, not some of the nuff nuffs on this board who quote shock jock lines verbatim.

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Tuesday, December 30, 2014 11:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


"nuff nuffs"?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Tuesday, December 30, 2014 11:35 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


"Used in a derogatory way to describe idiots who behave as if they never received an education or to decribe a person who behaves in a way that contradicts their IQ level."

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Wednesday, December 31, 2014 12:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


What I've read is about psychopaths is not that they seem to be especially adept, it's more like they have something missing.

They're probably not very common ... 1:100 is the generally quoted figure ... but in a world of 7 billion people, that's 70 million psychopaths. In the USA, that's 3.4 million. On this board, there may be one.

Out of 3.4 million psychopaths in the USA, most will only be capable of bringing chaos to their family and co-workers, the people immediately around them. But out of that many, there are probably a few who are capable of much more grandiose plans, who have special talents for specific things. I read an interesting study about the psychological makeup of robber barons (Carnegie etc.) derived from personal observations by the people around them. I wish I could find it now because it was a detailed description of what motivates people to extreme acquisition. They were cold, unmotivated by human connection, unfeeling towards family and society but extremely motivated by the "game" aspects of what they were doing. To them, money wasn't a goal, it was a marker. They had a visceral connection to what they're doing: George Soros, he just gets feelings in his stomach about currencies. Ayn Rand wrote lovesick stories about psychopaths because she was in love with one. Bill Gates' behavior was abnormal ... didn't wash, didn't look at people, rocked so violently at times that he would bang his head on table. So it's as if they exist on two axes: disconnection from people, and talent for acquisition.

Also, our society rewards psychopathy and "attenuation of empathy". And in some cases, I believe that the children of the ultra-wealthy, and those who attain some power are deliberately conditioned towards psychopathy.

The problem is that it's a positive feedback situation: Rewards put more power into the hands of the psychopath (or the truly conditioned), who then gear the society to provide even more power and more rewards. It's the source of the concept that I've been saying for years: Power concentrates But, it only concentrates because some people are geared to concentrate it: they have the intention, lack of restraint, and capability to snowball a small advantage into an unimaginable one.

Just one more thing: People can do some truly awful things because of what is called "the division of responsibility". I think that's how we wind up in a truly psychopathic system.

Anyway, I think it's probably very hard for us to get into the brainspace of a true psychopath - like it's very difficult to truly understand a schizophrenic or a person on the autistic spectrum - which is one of the reasons we don't do anything about their influence on our lives. It's almost impossible to credit that there really are people "like that", particularly as psychopaths are usually good at presenting the appearance of normalcy (most of the time).

Do you think it would help if we TAUGHT, as part of a curriculum, that some people think and behave very differently, and perhaps also teach some effective responses? It might work to reduce bullying, and it might also reduce the conflict and confusion that psychopaths tend to inject into other people's lives.

Oh, and sorry for the fight that crossed this thread. As you probably figured, it was really a continuation from several other threads. I have this cartoon image of two characters rolling around in a ball of fight, rolling across one room, bursting through a door into another room, rolling across THAT floor, and exiting thru another door while the remaining (uninvolved) characters look on in bemusement. I've been on this board long enough; you'd think I'd know enough by now not to get baited into an off-topic fight.


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Wednesday, December 31, 2014 12:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Fwiw, there's been lots of baiting going on lately amigo.



You mean like this?



No one on this site thinks that way.
I love how you create this "other" group, this peasant class "basket," that you try to put everyone into who doesn't think like you no matter how you have to lie or defame or twist the facts. Who's the psychopath??? I definitely know who your vassal is.



This?



You're showing the typical sociopath tendency to not recognize individuals.



This?



As your 12 year old self would say: "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"



This?



Pssst... Signym...she (Magons) could easily be talking about you.



Just a VERY small example of your very LARGE contribution to that whole 'baiting' thing. So when you say there's been a lot of baiting going on lately - I hope you're looking in the mirror - buddy.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.



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Wednesday, December 31, 2014 12:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


FWIW Magon's, the only person I consider a sociopath here is rappy. He's not a fool but he's certainly willing to play one for the sole purpose of manipulating a response.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, December 31, 2014 4:56 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Just a VERY small example of your very LARGE contribution to that whole 'baiting' thing. So when you say there's been a lot of baiting going on lately - I hope you're looking in the mirror - buddy.


I think he was. That's speaking for him, but I took that as a tongue in cheek jab at himself and an effort to mend things a little.

That's the reason I started posting as well. I wandered back here out of curiosity, and lo and behold - a thread about psychopathy, something I find interesting and something that, yes, I still kind of think I have. But when I get in here I was kinda shocked by just how heated the board had gotten. It's been serious in the past before, but wow.

I just thought I should say something and try to help things around here a little, just out of the memory of the place I used to post so much. It was kinda hard watching two people who I thought used to get along pretty well just tear into each other.

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Wednesday, December 31, 2014 5:05 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I think you are throwing that word around too loosely. I mean, seriously - "I believe that the children of the ultra-wealthy, and those who attain some power are deliberately conditioned towards psychopathy." Really? Who's manipulating these people toward that?


Their private (somewhat abusive) schools and their parents to be honest... There is a sort of win/get ahead at any cost attitude that seems to be common among the privileged. They're told they're the best of the best, and that they have to COMPETE with the best of the best.

It's not JUST contained to them, it happens at all levels of society, of course, and competition and ambition aren't always bad things. But there's a certain application of a competitive ambitious drive that can make a person act more self-interested and less compassionate, even willing to make horrible sacrifices, and it can take a while for some of them to snap out of it, if they ever do. That's why you end up with so many former business cutthroat multi-billionaire philanthropists in their 50s and 60s, they feel compelled to make up for some of what they did I think.

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Thursday, January 1, 2015 10:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It's funny, because I was just scanning thru headlines (as I usually do in the AM) and found this example on BBC of a person who was trained to be a sociopath and then rejected that training:

Quote:

We can learn a lot about the art of living from Tolstoy's War and Peace - a 10-hour dramatisation of which is airing on BBC Radio 4 on Thursday. It acutely observes vanity and folly, sexual jealousy and family relationships. But we can also learn from the life of the master novelist himself, writes Roman Krznaric.

Tolstoy, who was born in 1828 and died in 1910, was a member of the Russian nobility, from a family that owned an estate and hundreds of serfs. The early life of the young count was raucous, debauched and violent.

"I killed men in wars and challenged men to duels in order to kill them," he wrote. "I lost at cards, consumed the labour of the peasants, sentenced them to punishments, lived loosely, and deceived people … so I lived for ten years."



However, he changed himself ....

Quote:

But he gradually weaned himself off his decadent, racy lifestyle and rejected the received beliefs of his aristocratic background, adopting a radical, unconventional worldview that shocked his peers. So how exactly might his personal journey help us rethink our own philosophies of life?

1. Keep an open mind

One of Tolstoy's greatest gifts was his ability and willingness to change his mind based on new experiences. The horrific bloodshed he witnessed while fighting in the Crimean War in the 1850s turned him into a lifelong pacifist. In 1857, after seeing a public execution by guillotine in Paris - he never forgot the thump of the severed head as it fell into the box below - he became a convinced opponent of the state and its laws, believing that governments were not only brutal, but essentially served the interests of the rich and powerful. "The State is a conspiracy," he wrote to a friend. "Henceforth, I shall never serve any government anywhere." Tolstoy was on the road to becoming an anarchist. He would be the first to encourage us to question the fundamental beliefs and dogmas we have been brought up with.
line

2. Practise empathy
Tolstoy displayed an unusual capacity to empathise by stepping into the shoes of people whose lives were vastly different from his own. In the 1860s, he not only adopted peasant dress but began working alongside the newly emancipated labourers on his estate, ploughing the fields and repairing their homes with his own hands. For a blue-blooded count, such actions were nothing short of remarkable. Although no doubt tinged with paternalism, he enjoyed the company of peasants and consciously shunned the literary and aristocratic elite in the cities. Tolstoy believed you could never understand the reality of other people's lives unless you had a taste of it yourself.

3. Make a difference
He also distinguished himself from his upper class peers by taking practical action to alleviate other people's suffering, most evident in his famine relief work. After the crop failure of 1873, Tolstoy stopped writing Anna Karenina for a year to organise aid for the starving, remarking to a relative: "I cannot tear myself away from living creatures to bother about imaginary ones." His friends and family thought it was crazy for one of the world's finest novelists to put one of his works of genius on the backburner. He did it again following the famine in 1891, spending two years working in soup kitchens and fundraising. Can you imagine a bestselling author today setting aside their latest book to do humanitarian relief work for two years?

4. Master the art of simple living
Following a mental breakdown in the late 1870s, Tolstoy rejected all organised religion, including the Orthodox Church he had grown up in. He adopted a revolutionary brand of Christianity based on spiritual and material austerity. He gave up drinking, smoking, and became a vegetarian. He also inspired the creation of utopian communities of simple, self-sufficient living, where property was held in common. These "Tolstoyan" communities spread around the world and lead Gandhi to found an ashram in 1910 named the Tolstoy Farm.
Leo Tolstoy

5. Beware your contradictions
This new, simpler life was not without its struggles and contradictions. Tolstoy famously preached universal love yet was constantly fighting with his wife. Moreover, the apostle of equality was never able to fully abandon his wealth and privileged lifestyle. He lived until old age in a grand house with servants. But in the early 1890s he managed - against his family's wishes - to relinquish copyright to a huge portion of his literary works, in effect sacrificing a fortune. Given the privileged position in which Tolstoy started his life, his personal transformation, if not complete, still deserves our admiration.

6. Become a craftsman
Tolstoy recognised that striking a balance between mind and body was an essential part of his creative process. He not only regularly put down his pen to guide a horse-drawn plough across the fields, but kept a scythe and saw leaning up against the wall next to his writing desk. In his last years, when writers and journalists came to pay homage to the bearded sage, they were always surprised to find one of the world's most famous authors huddled over his cobbling tools making a pair of boots. If Tolstoy were here today he would no doubt suggest we get some craft into our lives rather than grant so much of our leisure time to tweeting and texting.

7. Expand your social circle
circa 1880: The Russian ladies at a Nobles' Ball in Moscow gasp at the foreign court dress of a visiting Englishman

The most essential life lesson to take away from Tolstoy is to follow his lead and recognise that the best way to challenge our assumptions and prejudices, and develop new ways of looking at the world, is to surround ourselves with people whose views and lifestyles differ from our own. In Resurrection, he pointed out that most people - whether they are politicians, businessmen or thieves - "instinctively keep to the circle of those people who share their views of life and their own place in it". Cosseted within our peer group, we may think it perfectly normal and justifiable to own two homes, or to oppose same-sex marriage, or to bomb countries in the Middle East. We cannot see that such views may be perverse, unjust, or untrue, because we are inside circles of our own making. The challenge is to spread our conversational wings and spend time with those whose values and experiences contrast with our own. Our ultimate task, Tolstoy would advise us, is to journey beyond the perimeters of the circle.


http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30536963

That is the philosophy behind the book Nickel and Dimed; On (Not) Getting by in America by Barbara Ehrenreich. It's easy to become entranced in your own bubble, and to assume that everyone should be able to live like you do because you deserve it, and they would too if they only tried harder. Well, I don't know any homeless people, but I know far too many people who work hard and are just barely scraping by.

But I think it would also be vastly instructive if we, the hoi polloi, "the masses", "the great unwashed" (according to upper-ups) could also penetrate the upper crust as a kind of educational adventure.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, January 2, 2015 1:13 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Pity there were not more of his ilk in Russia. Faster social change may have prevented later bloodshed, or at least reduced its scale.

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Friday, January 2, 2015 11:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The funny thing is, I forced myself to read Anna Karenina when I was in college and it was excruciatingly boring. Awful. I just couldn't make my way through the book.

None of Tolstoy's apparent genuine good spirit came through: he was writing about some Russian nobility who lived pointless uninteresting lives (as far as I can tell) who were tortured by the conflict between their authentic desires and their social function- in Anna's case apparently it was to walk with "light, quick steps" (that phrase must have been repeated once every six or seven pages! I wanted to shoot the translator. Didn't he or she have access to a thesaurus?) and to remain a lightly cynical conversationalist for the amusement of the rest of her class. Maybe if I read it all the way to the end, I would appreciate it more.

We used to have a poster here, DREAMTROVE, who had many interesting things to say. It was kind of hard to pin down his background- according to him he was a tomato farmer with connections to some very old-money family somewhere on the Hudson River, and he had been "treated" in Europe for some unspecified mental illness. (I always thought that his thinking was a bit looser than most. Many of the connections that he made were kind of "out there", but he would hit on some genuinely brilliant insights that have stood the test of time.)

In any case, we were talking about "the wealthy" then, and how they're different from everyone else, and DREAMTROVE made the very definite point that "the wealthy" really are raised very differently from everyone else. To RAPPY's point that "the wealthy" have earned their wealth, DREAMTROVE responded that most of the wealthy got their wealth the old-fashioned way: They inherited it. And even if they have less money than the rest of their class, they have connections, through schools, families, and associations ... connections that the average person simply doesn't have.

The other point that he made is that the wealthy are bored, and that in order to be an appreciated member of the upper crust, one must be amusing. I wish I could remember the rest of what he posted, it was an interesting take and it seemed to describe a milieu that none of us would have any insight on.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, January 3, 2015 7:12 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I remember him. The last post he made was that his sister had died of cancer and he was dreadfully upset, feeling she had been killed by the doctors.

He certainly was out there, but we had some interesting conversations. I seem to remember he was obsessed with eugenics.

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Saturday, January 3, 2015 7:18 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I have to admit to never reading Tolstoy, the size and the patronymics were something of a deterrence.

I do love Chekov though, who wrote about the same class and the same ennui.

The idea that great wealth is available to anyone who wants it enough is the modern equivelent of an after life paradise being available to anyone who wants it enough. It keeps people in hope, who otherwise probably should be rioting in the street over their circumstances. Or at least plotting the overthrow of the overlords.

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Monday, November 23, 2015 9:38 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:


You should at least read the link I posted. It will add to whatever store of knowledge that you already have.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.



some good points in this thread

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