REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

How psychopaths control society, and why we don't do anything about it

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, November 23, 2015 21:38
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 14516
PAGE 1 of 2

Sunday, December 14, 2014 12:11 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I got this email from an email group, which I'm very fortunate to be included in. I know we have discussed psychopathy on the forum many times (not so much lately) but I thought this was insightful and well-reasoned and worth passing on. The discussion began with "men are idiots" and "conservatives are stupid" and then wandered in this direction, where the author very much disagrees with the "conservatives are stupid" meme. This is posted with permission of the author:

Quote:

Once a structure beneficial to some is established, those who benefit from it will continue to try and transform everything around them into what is beneficial to them. Conservatives are constantly changing the world they live in in such a way that they gain more and more from it. The US has altered the world massively to make it much easier for them to control it at least in the short term. The world can never remain the same it always changes due to the very action of the elements within it, human or otherwise.

This is the very basis of dialectical reasoning. That which is formed by an environment inevitably changes that very environment. The people in power transform the world in order to not only stay in power but to make it even easier for them to exploit it. This is the same behavior as all of the rest of us. We live in houses, we use cell phones, we have medicine... we are constantly altering the world in a way we think will benefit us, without however considering how we are altering future probable outcomes.

Conservatives behave the same way as the rest of the population. How could the western world have created the holocaust around us without the vast majority of its population disregarding what was happening and disregarding that they in fact were instrumental in enabling their rulers to succeed in this endeavor? The answer is simple and well embodied in XXX's line. "It is difficult to get a person to understand something, when their world-view or salary depends on them not understanding it." The west's world-view of exceptionalism, a view held by the Nazis as well, has justified some of the worst barbarities visited and continuing to be visited on this planet. XXX, the inclusion of world-view into that sentence was a very good inclusion.

ZZZ, your phrase: "So, they [conservatives] block out evidence which doesn't confirm their long held values and beliefs, or disrupt their world." I am afraid I have to disagree with this. I have had the chance to correspond with some people that very much belong to this class and what struck me the most troubling is that they do not block out evidence at all, in fact they make excellent use of it. They use it in order to know how to prevent the controlled population from reacting to it. Also they use it to benefit themselves.

Did you know that London bankers actually screen for psychopaths? They found that most people have ethical reservations that they seem unable to overcome. Psychopaths on the other hand can be counted on to do whatever benefits them and thus they can be counted on to act exactly as desired as long as they benefit. This makes them much better tools, dangerous, but much more predictable. Those controlling, being psychopaths themselves, obviously are not bothered by this but rather welcome it.

One individual I correspond with agrees completely with climate shift and sees opportunities for investment. I pointed out that the future prospects are very bleak and he said, "not for me". In discussing the Ukrainian situation I was struck at just how accurate his knowledge was of what was going on there. No delusional thinking for him. I pointed out that the economy is in total collapse. He agreed. I conjectured that in the long run it will turn out very bad for the EU. He agreed. However as far as he was concerned turmoil always provided profit if you knew how to respond. He shorted the Ukrainian currency, Hryvnia, well before it tanked. According to him he made a "killing". When I brought up the fact that there were a lot of people in dire straights he told me he was still trying to figure out how to capitalize on that but the situation of the Russians supplying the aid made it very difficult. Presently he is buying Rubles since he is pretty sure that it is close to the bottom and it will rebound in at most two years. He did this in the 90s and it paid off handsomely.

I find that many people confuse the propaganda with the beliefs of the people spreading that propaganda. I am not saying that all of them are rational, but I am saying that the ones that succeed very much are. Even in their world those who do not confuse their ideas with reality have a major advantage.

The human environment, like all environments, have predators, parasites and prey. The more energetic the predators the fewer they are since a lot larger population of prey are required to support them. The predator to prey ratio among cold blooded animals is something around 1 in 3. Among warm blooded animals it is closer to 1 in 25 to 1 in 100. The predators among us are very energetic, they tend not to lie to themselves, are true psychopaths, and they are voracious. Do not confuse the lackeys for those who are really in power. The vassals lie to themselves so they can ingratiate themselves to the predators in order to feed on the crumbs passed their way. The top 500 people in the world own as much wealth as the rest of the planet. They did not get their by being delusional or by ignoring evidence. They got their because they paid very close attention to the evidence, understood how to make use of it, are totally ruthless and very much want you to believe that they are delusional and evidence free.

It acts as their camouflage. If everyone understood just how clearly and intentionally they are gutting this world it would be hard for them to continue to operate.

It is delusional of the prey to believe that their predator is delusional. It is even more delusional of the prey to believe that there are no predators but just misguided prey.

// Ignorance is a necessary ingredient for oppression.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 14, 2014 3:27 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So, the advantage of the sociopaths is that they can't have their humanity appealed to, or the need to belong exploited; while the rest of society follows its evolutionary drive to empathy and need to belong.





SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 14, 2014 4:46 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Ignorance is a necessary ingredient for oppression. AKA libtardism breeds libtardism.

There is much in that post to ruminate on. So far, seems concise and well constructed.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 14, 2014 6:37 PM

JONGSSTRAW


It's a necessary ingredient for a lot of things.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 14, 2014 10:55 PM

JONGSSTRAW









NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 15, 2014 5:19 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


You geniuses think you're the only ones that figured that out. Yes, ignorance comes in many forms, not the least of which belongs to the misinformed.

For some it comes in the Giant, Extra Large Family Pack.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
It's a necessary ingredient for a lot of things.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 15, 2014 10:57 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

You geniuses think you're the only ones that figured that out. Yes, ignorance comes in many forms, not the least of which belongs to the misinformed.

For some it comes in the Giant, Extra Large Family Pack.-SGG

I think Obama isn't a psychopath, but he IS one of those willing (high level) vassals. Unable to exert any meaningful influence on the banks excessive printing of money, the health insurances excessive predation on the economy, the wealth gap, and minimum wages, Obama has become enchanted with the one form of control he DOES have: drones. That little "joke" about his girls' boyfriends begin very careful because he has drones??? Sign of a sick mind.

The only thing that bothers me about reichwing criticism of Obama is that it's one sided. They'll criticize Obama for doing exactly what Bush did. It was Bush, as I recall, who blew a big invasion-sized hole in the budget, a big prescription-sized hole in Medicare, and big telcom-sized hole AND body-sized hole in the Constitution (that "god damned piece of paper" which protects our persons and things from unreasonable search and seizure, and which protects us from unreasonable detention.)



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 15, 2014 11:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

So, the advantage of the sociopaths is that they can't have their humanity appealed to, or the need to belong exploited; while the rest of society follows its evolutionary drive to empathy and need to belong.
I directed the author to look at this thread, and author says: Very interesting comment. Care to join the email list? PM me.

Just kind of noddling on the topic, if sociopaths are uninhibited by empathy from certain actions .... and we live (mostly, now) in a human environment .... then sociopaths will tend to gather at the nexuses where they can make use of the most people. This would mean nodes where a single person could draw from the resources of thousands if not millions or billions of people:

Banking and investment: Money flows everywhere. People seeking to make use of others will tend to gravitate towards the concentration of money. This would be Wall Street traders and bankers who see their clients as so much chum, and the entire structure above them: Jamie Dimon. Lord Blankfein. "Dick" Fuld, before he took Lehman down the chute.

Media: Where else do you get to hold sway over millions? Rupert Murdoch and Pierre Omidyar.

Computers, connectivity, and the internet: Bill Gates. Pierre Omidyar. The current heads of Google. Zuckerberg. Steve Jobs, dead thank goodness. And all of the "doing well by doing good" crowd. Sociopaths in shepherd's clothing.

The alphabet-soup agencies. Petty tyrants with delusions of grandeur. Sad little kings of sad little hills.

Most politicians everywhere, although maybe they're in the crumb-licking vassal category.

Most anyone who has the title of President, Chair, or CEO of something large.


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 15, 2014 11:31 AM

THGRRI


Being a member of this firefly fan site I feel obliged to check in once in a while. I like to get updates on what the cast of firefly is up to. Inevitably I find my search wondering at times to the troll dominated section of the site. I call it that because I have witnessed many conversations there that exposed some of you for who you are.

I would behest you who are attacking this country and its president to look into a mirror to witness what sh@t piles you have become.





NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 15, 2014 11:39 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I would behest you who are judging this country and its president to look into a mirror to witness what sh@t piles you have become.
Behest you to look in the mirror once in a while yourself buddy, cause from here all I see is one of the deluded. Yanno, the kind who believes that corporations are his friend, that the military stands for freedom, and that politicians are there to serve you.



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 15, 2014 12:10 PM

THGRRI


Presenting me as a corporate loving person and trying to imprint me with all you hate, is how you depict all that call you out for what you are. The fact that you believe the military in this country acts without the blessing of congress, shows you think like someone who has suffered Russian rule and really understands little else.

By the way I called it at least a month ago. I told you then because Russia is little more than a gas station for the world it would collapse with sanctions and changing oil prices. You showed your ignorance on things global then as well by suggesting Russia had other forms of industry to rely on. Watch what happens now as the Russian people start to cry uncle.

Putin the world isat you.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 15, 2014 1:17 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
.
I love how you create this "other" group, this peasant class "basket," that you try to put everyone into who doesn't think like you no matter how you have to lie or defame or twist the facts. Who's the psychopath??? I definitely know who your vassal is.

There is a Social Dominance Orientation scale where you answer how strongly you agree ( or disagree ) with questions such as:
This country would be better off if we cared less about how equal all people are.
Some groups of people are simply not the equals of others.
Some people are just more worthy than others.

The world isn't strictly sociopaths lording over everyone else. There are other kinds who aren't sick in the head but do very much want to be addressed as His Lordship or Her Ladyship. They will do whatever they must to get the respect they feel they deserve. Get out of their way or be run over beneath the wheels of their chariots.

See chapter 5 (page 160) of The Authoritarians at http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf
The book nicely covers the thinking process of Social Dominators and their followers.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 15, 2014 4:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Care to join the email list? PM me.
Very happy to. You will find this reply first either here or by PM.

This would mean nodes where a single person could draw from the resources of thousands if not millions or billions of people: Banking and investment: Money flows everywhere.
I've read two articles that say that banks actually test people for sociopathy (being one is a recommendation) before they hire them. I may (or may not, depending on time) drag them out of the internet. I've ALSO read an article that says that people who do calculations first about personal monetary gain or loss show far greater sociopathic responses than controls.

Media: Where else do you get to hold sway over millions? Rupert Murdoch and Pierre Omidyar.
Hadn't thought of that.

Computers, connectivity, and the internet: Bill Gates. Pierre Omidyar. The current heads of Google. Zuckerberg. Steve Jobs, dead thank goodness. And all of the "doing well by doing good" crowd. Sociopaths in shepherd's clothing.
Or that.

The alphabet-soup agencies. Petty tyrants with delusions of grandeur. Sad little kings of sad little hills.
My understanding is that mostly they're just twisted fucks. (Confession of an Economic Hitman)

Most politicians everywhere, although maybe they're in the crumb-licking vassal category.
I vote crumb-licking vassal, except for the obvious Cheney's, Feith's etc.

Most anyone who has the title of President, Chair, or CEO of something large.
For these I also vote crumb-licking vassal if they've wormed their way into an existing structure.





SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 15, 2014 4:42 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


G, THUGR, KPO

The only people who want everyone to think they're the good guys who have explicitly disavowed care for actual human beings are you.

THUGR:
Originally posted by Kiki:
So you REALLY DON'T CARE if the vast majority of people live short miserable lives while very few are astronomically wealthy and powerful, or if instead the vast majority have decent lives to look forward to. Well, now we know what you stand for.
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Your a fucking moron: who gives a shit?

G:
Originally posted by Kiki:
And still no criticism of Kiev targeting civilians.
Originally posted by G:
And I'll state again for the thirtieth time: I could give a shit about Kiev.

KPO
Originally posted by Signy:
[Kiev] has deliberately killed thousands of civilians and displaced a million more.
Originally posted by KPO:
Complete nonsense.


You write off people if they're on the wrong 'side'. You may not be sociopathic --- but you sure are their tools.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 15, 2014 4:50 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Have you checked this out yet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Psychopath_Test

Ronson reaches similar conclusions to the author of the article.

I think empathy is an interesting feature of humanity. Most of us practise a kind of selective empathy and a small percentage of the population appear to operate without it all together.

I agree that empathy has given us evolutionary advanatage, so has the capacity to be selective with our empathy to turn it on and off.

We do it every day. Most of us. There are also a small percentage of the population that don't practice selective empathy, or are incapable of it.

I say that we select the use of empathy, same as any other emotion. We may switch it off when we eat meat, or walk past a homeless person (even if we throw a few coins at them, few of us will take them home), when we switch off the news because we can't tolerate what we see, when we have to make tough decisions at work or in our family that may affect many others adversely.

For people in positions of power that have to switch it off more regularly and it may even be in their advantage to not be particularly empathic people. Otherwise how do you retrench half your workforce, displace families to build a dam or a mine. Ever been in a workforce where the management consultants are called in to sweep through the place with a big fiscal broom and wondered where their humanity is?

It's even more evident in times of war, when that switch needs to be well and truly set to off. And they are not by and large psychopaths. An old friend of my dad was involved in the bombing of Dresden, a nicer man you couldn't meet, probably killed or helped kill thousands of civilians. Old people, babies, children....I'm pretty sure he has no regrets.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 15, 2014 5:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


There's an old Italian saying that goes - killing someone should change a man. It was implied that if it didn't, there was already something wrong with you.

I think if we raise a society that writes off individuals, we're training them to be the tools of sociopaths, and write off people for whatever reason is convenient. Wrong side. (Wrong color. Wrong income bracket. Wrong religion.) Or, in the parlance of the 60's - what if they called a war and no one came?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 15, 2014 6:59 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I think most are changed by experiences of war, but still doesn't mean that you are become a psychopath.

I would argue that empathy and the ability to turn off emapthy are both part of the human condition.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 15, 2014 11:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Oh hi Magon's

I didn't want to let this drop off the bottom.

I agree that most people can flexibly attenuate empathy (except the sociopaths who are stuck on zero). I just don't think it's a good thing. If we're living in a society where we have to constantly gear up what we've been told in order to pass people by - what kind of society are we living in? Maybe the plight of people around us, or the things we do in war, should bother us. Maybe we should change the world rather than stifle our empathy.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 16, 2014 3:24 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Well I'm a big fan of empathy, but I do beleive its kind of a survival thing to not be always empathic. Even the news issue, we'd all suffer vicarious trauma if we constantly felt empathy for every dire situation presented to us. It's more than an individual can cope with, because somewhere in the world something shitty is happening to someone. And that's always been the case. The world is a big place with lots of people.

Modern media brings us it all, or lots of it, particularly the horrible bits, trying to encourage people to click on a story because its more shocking than the last. I think we tend to be quite tribal at our basis 'are these our people?' If we say yes, we tend to feel more for the victims than if we can identify. And I think that is how we manage empathy. We feel for our own (mostly) and disassociate from the other.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 16, 2014 10:34 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Presenting me as a corporate loving person

No, you're the military-loving one. You know, the military? That organization that has killed millions of innocent civilians since WWII?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 16, 2014 10:38 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

No one on this site thinks that way.
Then you haven't been reading your own replies. Or G's. Or THUGR's, or JONGSSTRAWS, or RAPPY's.

These people - including you - have at various times explicitly not given two shits for thousands if not millions of innocent people being killed, starved, tortured, or impoverished by the authorities that you (they) support. I'm not reading much empathy for the victims in your casual dismissals. I'm gobsmacked that you even imagine that you're a caring person. It's just amazing.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 16, 2014 12:56 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Good stuff from many uv you.

I dont want to sound like a broken record, but I believ therez an intellijens factor linked to empathy. Stupid peepl tend to be meaner, maybe kuz it takes more intellijens to consider other perspectivez.

A big part uv the problem haz to do with short term advantaj.

Its a big survival disadvantaj to to be nice, jenerous and, to sum degree, visionary. In the short term, the predator who eats the most now winz. Hiz rival, who thot to leav sum prey alive for the future duznt hav the fat to make it thru to spring.

Sivilization iz suppozed to go abuv this. It haz, but it iz constantly at risk uv sliding down the muddy slope back to the rule uv the jungl.

You hav to wonder - if the human speciez wuz just a littl bit smarter on averaj, say 20 or 30 IQ points, the advantaj uv cooperation over 'momentary advantaj for me' woud be obvious to nearly everybody and maybe we woudnt be constantly bogged down in the petty battlz cauzed by greed.

(sorry if this iz not put together very well, but I hav a bunch uv distractionz going on at the moment)



----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 16, 2014 1:06 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, the advantage of the sociopaths is that they can't have their humanity appealed to, or the need to belong exploited; while the rest of society follows its evolutionary drive to empathy and need to belong.b]



I might not be GREAT at parties, but I do have my uses iKiki :)

As smart as you are, isn't it great that we have the Kardashians around to take all the whollpings for us?


Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, December 16, 2014 11:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

*snort* you might as well say "trillions of babies!" You'd think evil that bad would be easy to find cites for - care to?

Ive posted ad nauseum about what the United States has done. Post after post, cite after cite. A whole long laundry list of one democracy after another that we toppled, only to replace it with a tyranny which practiced torture on its people, starting with the genocide that we visited on the natives, and wending our way thru the Philippines, Iran, Indonesia, Vietnam, South Africa, Grenada, and all of Central and South America.

I pointed out Libya, and Syria, and Iraq, and Afghanistan and you asked me why I brought up history?? I tried pointing out what was going on in Ukraine ... yanno, who was REALLY killing most of the people... and you did your damnedest to deny and obfuscate.

Now you're asking me for cites??? What kind of idiot are you? They were there, but you just closed your eyes and pretended they didn't exist. There were lots of good little Germans who just "didn't know" what was going on under Hitler, and you'd fit right in.

Should I have had empathy for them? Should I have empathy for people who support a sadistic and dictatorial regime?


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, December 17, 2014 10:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by Kiki:
And still no criticism of Kiev targeting civilians.
Originally posted by G:
And I'll state again for the thirtieth time: I could give a shit about Kiev.

This is just about Ukraine. It's also VERY clear that you could "give a shit" about Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Panama, Grenada. I've asked you many times to discuss your moral qualms -if any- about US policy in general, and you strenuously avoided it. It was "history", and obviously irrelevant to you. The frosting, though, is you asking for cites now.

Really???

The whole topic of the USA rampaging through the world and killing -literally- millions of people was so uninteresting that you didn't notice all of the cites previously posted? Couldn't care to follow up on it? You're either an amazing hypocrite or a world-class troll. Your lack of moral backbone was evident then and it's even more evident now.

ARE you a Nazi sympathizer?

Well, maybe yes. You seem to be protecting the Nazis in Kiev, and you DO seem to like killing people, as long it's people you don't care about. If the shoe fits, honey, you should wear it.


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 18, 2014 11:40 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I've asked you many times to discuss your moral qualms -if any- about US policy in general, and you strenuously avoided it. -SIGNY
You make up so much shit and then you honestly wonder why I haven't discussed much of anything with you?? Ever??? Really need me to paint a picture?-G

Look, sweetie, if you have a fricking clue -which you don't- you'd realize that the stuff that seems "made up" to you is actually true. I have an advantage .... I remember a lot of this from personal experience. The Vietnam war and the CIA-sponsored fascist coup in Chile were within my teenage memory, and there've been at least .... oh, I dunno .... a dozen destabilizations -if not outright invasions- since then. It may be harder for you to have this information bc its outside of your experience, but all you need to do is look at this list...

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

I've cross-referenced this site against other online sources, (Wikipedia etc) and found it to be factual. Or, if you don't like this list, just search [any nation]+CIA or [any nation]+ United States + intervention + invasion. It doesn't take much to educate yourself. Until you do some learning, whatever you think is "made up" or "real" is just dust-bunnies. Fluff.

Quote:

The whole topic of the USA rampaging through the world and killing -literally- millions of people was so uninteresting that you didn't notice all of the cites previously posted? Couldn't care to follow up on it? You're either an amazing hypocrite or a world-class troll. Your lack of moral backbone was evident then and it's even more evident now.-SIGNY

Which you are funding btw. Unless you think whining on a forum absolves you some how.

At least I don't provide moral support and social cover for atrocities, like you do.

Quote:

ARE you a Nazi sympathizer?- SIGNY

ARE YOU? You fund US involvement in the Ukraine - you should change your username to SigHeil!-

So, since you can't/ didn't answer the question, does that mean "yes"?

Quote:

Well, maybe yes. You seem to be protecting the Nazis in Kiev, and you DO seem to like killing people, as long it's people you don't care about. If the shoe fits, honey, you should wear it. -SIGNY

Wait, you quote me where I say I don't give a shit about Kiev, and then you say I am protecting Kiev... surely even you can see how dumb that is.

In context, it's very clear that you don't give two shits about what the Kiev government DOES to Ukrainian citizens, and are providing moral, political, and social cover for actions that are rising to the level of war crimes and (as in the case of lustration) a restriction of democracy. That is the context of what you've said, and taking your own words out of context and trying to put a different spin on them is just... sad and pathetic.

Quote:

Hmmm... with you living in very expensive Cali, and a 2 income household, & hubby in tech, you are way ahead of me in terms of how many drones you've purchased with your tax dollars to kill innocent civilians. Now THAT is poetical irony! It's always the people that bitch the most...
Yanno, we did look at emigrating but found the laws are very restrictive. It seems that the USA is the only nation that is expected to have open arms to all immigrants!

YOU OTOH seem supportive of sending our drones here, setting up black sites there, setting up prison ships at sea (which btw held 80,000 victims), funding terrorists elsewhere, bombing and invading anywhere. Really, what do you expect to accomplish by killing millions, displacing tens of millions, and torturing hundreds of thousand? Winning the hearts and minds of the world? This might be a time for some quiet reflection - maybe even soul searching - to start asking yourself questions like "If we're not improving the world by our actions, why are we doing what we're doing and who is really benefiting"?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 18, 2014 4:10 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I always thought that getting to be 'number one' took a degree of ruthlessness to get there and then ruthlessness plus some downright nasty stuff to stay there. That goes for individuals as well as countries.

It takes self belief to the point of narcisism and a disregard for others, most of the time.

Sometimes those displays of nationalism around July 4, which probably feel fine when you are there, do look a little nuremburgy from the outside. And that really goes for any country when they are in the throes of ecstatic national pride.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, December 18, 2014 8:25 PM

JONGSSTRAW



NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 19, 2014 12:43 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Really, what do you expect to accomplish by killing millions, displacing tens of millions, and torturing hundreds of thousand?



So yeah, totally bat shit crazy.



I actually made a point- a point, mind you- of adding up the number of innocent civilians that the USA has killed in its various takeovers. A few million in Vietnam, and half-million to a million in Indonesia under Suharto, several hundred thousand in Iraq... yanno, a few hundred thousand here and million there: it adds up!

And compared to incontrovertible historic facts ... the dust bunny speaks??

You are a worm, son. A moral worm, who is incapable of facing facts. A worm who hides his face in a bowl of Lucky Charms breakfast cereal when presented with exactly what he asked for: A CITE. At this point, at least one of us should recognize how woefully and pitifully ignorant you are, and how woefully and pitifully ignorant you wish to remain



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 19, 2014 2:28 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I don't even know who or what you are talking about any more - I honestly wonder if you even do.
As of now, G, probably the only person who claims not to know what I'm talking about is you.

Shall I refresh your memory, in little digestible bits, of what this is all about?

You accused me and KIKI of making shit up. You asked for CITES, more than once, with emphasis!
Quote:

You and Signym - when people don't agree you either insult or make sh*t up or both. Cites?-G

Quote:

*snort* you might as well say "trillions of babies!" You'd think evil that bad would be easy to find cites for - care to?-G

Quote:

You make up so much shit and then you honestly wonder why I haven't discussed much of anything with you?? Ever??? Really need me to paint a picture? -G


I referred to my previous posts, in which I provided cites.
Quote:

Ive posted ad nauseum about what the United States has done. Post after post, cite after cite. A whole long laundry list of one democracy after another that we toppled, only to replace it with a tyranny which practiced torture on its people,- SIGNY


I provided a cite which has historical list of all USA interventions up to 1999, and urged you to do your own research.

Quote:

All you have to do is look at this list
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

I've cross-referenced this site against other online sources, (Wikipedia etc) and found it to be factual. Or, if you don't like this list, just search [any nation]+CIA or [any nation]+ United States + intervention + invasion. It doesn't take much to educate yourself.



Now you claim you "don't know" what I'm talking about?

Did this refresh your memory? Or are you going to continue to claim that I'm just "making shit up" and that you "don't know" what I'm talking about?

Go look at the cites that you yourself asked for. Look into each instance on that list. Do your best to disprove it. Fill in with your own memories since 1999. Educate yourself.

--------------
When the wise man points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 19, 2014 2:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Back to the original post.

What I got out of it is that there are actual winners in this "race of the psychopaths". Not only are there people who exist in our society who have absolutely no empathy, no instinct for fairness (which btw even chimps demonstrate) and no need for inclusion, they are absolutely brilliant at inserting themselves into the arteries of our social and economic existence: anywhere millions or billions of people need to obtain services is where these people position themselves. It's a human-rich environment, and since humans are the prey, that's where they are:

Banking and investment (Lord Blankfein, Jamie Dimon, Dick Fuld - before he drove Lehman off a cliff, Buffet, Soros)
Information and communication services (the current owners of Google, Zuckerberg, Pierre Omidyar, Gates, Jobs- dead, thankfully, Murdoch)
Military and alphabet security (Cheney and the neocons)
Religion

Meanwhile, the rest of society either maintains a state of blissful denial, choosing to believe that each of them is indeed the master of his or her own fate, or they crowd around the sociopaths hoping to lick a few crumbs from the floor. I have to wonder: When does the survival instinct kick in, if ever?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 19, 2014 4:58 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

I don't even know who or what you are talking about any more - I honestly wonder if you even do.
As of now, G, probably the only person who claims not to know what I'm talking about is you.




No, no, no SIG, I too do not see a correlation between the topic and what you and kiki post. I have been saying just that since I started posting on this site.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 19, 2014 5:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Back to the original post.

What I got out of it is that there are actual winners in this "race of the psychopaths". Not only are there people who exist in our society who have absolutely no empathy, no instinct for fairness (which btw even chimps demonstrate) and no need for inclusion, they are absolutely brilliant at inserting themselves into the arteries of our social and economic existence: anywhere millions or billions of people need to obtain services is where these people position themselves. It's a human-rich environment, and since humans are the prey, that's where they are:

Banking and investment (Lord Blankfein, Jamie Dimon, Dick Fuld - before he drove Lehman off a cliff, Buffet, Soros)
Information and communication services (the current owners of Google, Zuckerberg, Pierre Omidyar, Gates, Jobs- dead, thankfully, Murdoch)
Military and alphabet security (Cheney and the neocons)
Religion

Meanwhile, the rest of society either maintains a state of blissful denial, choosing to believe that each of them is indeed the master of his or her own fate, or they crowd around the sociopaths hoping to lick a few crumbs from the floor. I have to wonder: When does the survival instinct kick in, if ever?


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 19, 2014 5:31 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


oh I think sociopaths exist at all levels of society and a lot of those traits we are taught to admire. If you see my earlier post, and you read 'the secret of success' type books, you'll see them threaded with examples. I've noted that one of the key elements of those kinds of books are their focus of cultivating networks - basically faking that you care about others to get ahead.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 19, 2014 8:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I actually cited the devastation and loss of life to civilians ON BOTH SIDES well before you were instructed to use it as a political talking point, and actually several times.



Cites?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 19, 2014 8:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you have absolutely, positively no freaking clue what I was even talking about.
Well, since you WERE talking about me making shit up, and demanding(!) cites (I even quoted you!), YOU don't know what you're talking about. AFA as you "not giving shit" ... well, you were quoted by KIKI. Your direct words.

Sheesh. What a tool.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 20, 2014 1:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh, so your whole beef isn't whether the USA killed millions and tortured hundreds of thousands? Your whole beef is about whether I dissed your fragile ego, and your even more fragile morals????

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

One of these days when I have more time, I'll go back into that Russia Invades Ukraine thread, where you bleated endlessly about some phantom invasion but really couldn't give two shits about thousands of people being killed ... or about the USA's history of doing the same to few million more people in the recent past. It really just encapsulates your whole skewed moral compass.... stacks of bodies a mile high on one side of the ledger and some random photos of Russian tanks on the other. And you pay scant attention to the stacks of bodies. That's how I perceive your priorities. And I'm sure you have all kinds of rationalizations for why you're correct, but I welcome your showing me how I'm wrong.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 20, 2014 2:15 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Back to the OP:

Meanwhile, the rest of society either maintains a state of blissful denial, choosing to believe that each of them is indeed the master of his or her own fate*, or they crowd around the sociopaths hoping to lick a few crumbs from the floor. I have to wonder: When does the survival instinct kick in, if ever?

* And in fact, misappropriating the blame for "when things go wrong", because if one is to blame, then one at least has (or had) the power to make things right. Apparently, nothing makes people more uncomfortable than knowing that they're powerless.... even if they really are.


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 20, 2014 3:47 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



From the first page of the Russia Invades Ukraine thread, dated August 15th - gosh, could it be that long ago?

I've cited that video to you multiple times, my comment:

"The realities of war: civilians suffer the most and deserve it the least. "

Hey look, I even mentioned you by name: "So very sad. (yes Kiki, I know these people were shelled by Ukraine)"

I'm guessing you'll be disappearing back under your rock about now.



Yes, you were SO CONCERNED about it you actually said you couldn't give a shit. Yanno, there's a difference between describing something (the sun is going to rise tomorrow), and having an opinion. Your description - doesn't count as an opinion. Your OPINION - well, that does count as one. And your opinion? You couldn't give a shit. You said so yourself.

So, speaking of slimy things living under rocks - hi to the guy who doesn't give a shit about civilians on the 'wrong side'. Now go ooze back under the one you came out from under.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 21, 2014 2:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


This is not by any means an exhaustive reflection of G's statements indicating his moral code; after all, I have a life beyond responding to FFF.net.

Russia's actions, in comparison to the USA
Quote:

And we killed 100,000+ in Iraq, about 30,000 in Afghanistan, who knows how many in Libya, and helped set up the situation in Syria where 150,000+ were killed. So on your scale of civilian deaths USA >> Russia >> Kiev >> separatists. BTW, when I brought up deaths caused by the USA before, you thought bringing up other wars and other nations was off-topic. I'm glad to see that you're expanding your view. Maybe now you'll start addressing those other nations, including the USA.... And, if these are serious acts of aggression against Ukraine, does that mean that the USA is also committing serious acts of aggression against many other nations? -SIGNY

Truth of the matter is I am much more fascinated by Russia's involvement in all of this - not to the exclusion of everything else - but it is to me, of all the stories, the bigger story.

If I'm cheer-leading for anything it's for Russia to be held accountable for their invasion of a sovereign country. [As opposed to... the USA's invasions?-SIGNY]

Typical obvious weak "but USA, whaaaa..." dodge. 67th time?

This is so completely, blindingly illogical: "If we are "not fighting" all of those nations, then Russia is "not fighting" Ukraine." It's beyond a false parallel. If you want to play the intellectual you can't make those kinds of bonehead statements.


So, hundreds of thousands ... millions, over time .... of civilians killed by the USA, not such an interesting story! Nope, you're totally fixated by a phantom invasion. Like I said.... bodies stacked a mile high on one side of the ledger, an "invasion" that you have to dig really really deep to find any evidence for on the other, and which one is the real problem?

On Russia's actions as compared to Kiev's.

Quote:

Clearly, if one is being honest and only believes some of the reports, Russia is much more aggressive of the 2 and has acted illegally in so far as international law goes.

What Russia is doing is a much more interesting story than Ukraine's.



Because Russia has killed thousands of Ukrainians?


How you feel about civilians being killed by Kiev- not giving a shit ...
Quote:

"And I'll state again for the thirtieth time: I could give a shit about Kiev."

... and blaming the victim
Quote:

So Signy, Kiki. Who is to blame when such a civilian area gets hit by retaliatory fire (not to mention the civilian areas the separatists were firing at)?


Your response to the repeated question Do you support the shelling and killing of civilians to maintain a national boundary? Deflect, deflect, deflect and deflect

Quote:

Do you have any proof Ukrainian troops killed those citizens?
So very sad. (yes Kiki, I know these people were shelled by Ukraine)
We love to try and kill each other because it's fun!
I'VE NEVER OWNED A BORDERS... BESIDES, BORDERS WENT OUT OF BUSINESS YEARS AGO. Keeping dead bodies in a Borders... creepy.
I think they should be brined and roasted before they are shelled.
I am in favor of dead civilians - both sides, and especially innocent ones. Average people should be slaughtered enmass. Frankly, this world would be better without them..



And your view of other posters
Quote:

I respond because it gives me pleasure to tear down conceited types such as you and Signym.


Your moral ground is looking pretty squishy from this angle, G. I think you need to bring some rationality (to ratio properly, fair and objective comparisons) to your process. But first, you have to recognize your own biases.


Emailed to me by a friend:
Quote:

It has become common place for people to describe events and people they know nothing about. Our populace makes claims to knowledge they do not and never did possess. Rather they repeat the speaking points pouring out of their corporate media as if it was indisputable facts even when a cursory examination of what is occurring around them would disprove those very beliefs and arguments. It seems that our population finds it irresistible to lie in the cocoon of the confabulated reality that their masters have spun them. Yet they regurgitate this virtual reality inculcated in their consciousness as if it had sprung full blown from their own observation of facts. Their theories put to even rudimentary examination for logic and factual coherence rarely survive the first pass yet they persist in repeating them. Regardless of all evidence and rational discourse they crawl back into the cocoon and recite their ritualistic mantras.

Intelligence requires judgment. Judgment requires acceptance of error. And above all it requires freedom. Freedom from gain, prejudice, pride, nationalism, exceptionalism and hubris.

Freedom is not a gift, it is a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one.




--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 21, 2014 3:58 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


That about sums up RWED. People speaking as experts about stuff they no little or nothing about.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 21, 2014 4:39 PM

THGRRI


This is the world 1kiki and Sig promote as ideal. Putin Obama


Russia's sole independent TV forced into meager studio

Alexander Zemlianichenko | Posted: Sunday, December 21, 2014 6:31 am






In this photo taken on Wednesday, Dec. 10, 2014, camera assistants prepare equipment for an open air with Dozhd Channel's s anchorman Pavel Lobkov, background cenetr, in their studio-apartment in Moscow, Russia.Russia’s only independent TV channel, Dozhd, faced all sorts of pressure this year and while the government was careful not to shut it down, a Kremlin-instigated smear campaign is causing a slow demise of this rare independent broadcaster. (AP Photo/Alexander Zemlianichenko) http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/world/wire/russia-s-sole-independent
-tv-forced-into-meager-studio/image_1637f976-afc5-5a0d-81b2-4cd9a016120c.html


Vladimir Putin, Raving Psychopath

As many predicted it would do after Russia’s 2008 annexation of Ossetia and Abkhazia, it appears Russian success with aggression in Georgia has induced it to turn its eye toward an even juicier tidbit known, for now, as Ukraine.

http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2010/05/04/editorial-vladimir-putin-
raving-psychopath
/



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 21, 2014 6:59 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hmmm, let's see === a claim that the government is running a 'smear campaign' that's, somehow, causing Dozhd to fail --- no links, evidence or explanation === and an opinion piece that I'm to take a fact.

THUGR, posting from loony land - as always.






SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 21, 2014 11:03 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Vladimir Putin, Raving Psychopath
Yanno, that's interesting because that is EXACTLY why my friend emailed me about ppl not knowing what they're talking about: Putin.

The comment was an introduction to an article on Putin, whom the author had met when Putin was just a small functionary in St Petersburg, obviously long before he became President of Russia. I'll quote you a few excerpts from the article, you can read the whole thing in the provided link:

Quote:

I met Putin years before he ever dreamed of being president of Russia, as did many of us working in St.Petersburg during the 1990s. Since all of the slander started, I've become nearly obsessed with understanding his character. I think I've read every major speech he has given (including the full texts of his annual hours-long telephone "talk-ins" with Russian citizens). I've been trying to ascertain whether he has changed for the worse since being elevated to the presidency, or whether he is a straight character cast into a role he never anticipated––and is using sheer wits to try to do the best he can to deal with Washington under extremely difficult circumstances. If the latter is the case, and I think it is, he should get high marks for his performance over the past 14 years. It's not by accident that Forbes declared him the most Powerful Leader of 2013, replacing Obama who was given the title for 2012. The following is my one personal experience with Putin.

The year was 1992: It was two years after the implosion of communism; the place was St.Petersburg. For years I had been creating programs to open up relations between the two countries and hopefully to help Soviet people to get beyond their entrenched top-down mentalities. A new program possibility emerged in my head. Since I expected it might require a signature from the Marienskii City Hall, an appointment was made. My friend Volodya Shestakov and I showed up at a side door entrance to the Marienskii building. We found ourselves in a small, dull brown office, facing a rather trim nondescript man in a brown suit. He inquired about my reason for coming in. After scanning the proposal I provided he began asking intelligent questions. After each of my answers, he asked the next relevant question. I became aware that this interviewer was different from other Soviet bureaucrats who always seemed to fall into chummy conversations with foreigners with hopes of obtaining bribes in exchange for the Americans' requests. CCI stood on the principle that we would never, never give bribes. This bureaucrat was open, inquiring, and impersonal in demeanor. After more than an hour of careful questions and answers, he quietly explained that he had tried hard to determine if the proposal was legal, then said that unfortunately at the time it was not. A few good words about the proposal were uttered. That was all. He simply and kindly showed us to the door. Out on the sidewalk, I said to my colleague, "Volodya, this is the first time we have ever dealt with a Soviet bureaucrat who didn't ask us for a trip to the US or something valuable!" I remember looking at his business card in the sunlight––it read Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin....

March 2000: I arrived in St.Petersburg. A Russian friend (a psychologist) since 1983 came for our usual visit. My first question was, "Lena what do you think about your new president?" She laughed and retorted, "Volodya! I went to school with him!" She began to describe Putin as a quiet youngster, poor, fond of martial arts, who stood up for kids being bullied on the playgrounds. She remembered him as a patriotic youth who applied for the KGB prematurely after graduating secondary school (they sent him away and told him to get an education). He went to law school, later reapplied and was accepted. I must have grimaced at this, because Lena said, "Sharon in those days we all admired the KGB and believed that those who worked there were patriots and were keeping the country safe. We thought it was natural for Volodya to choose this career. My next question was, "What do you think he will do with Yeltsin's criminals in the Kremlin?" Putting on her psychologist hat, she pondered and replied, "If left to his normal behaviors, he will watch them for a while to be sure what is going on, then he will throw up some flares to let them know that he is watching. If they don't respond, he will address them personally, then if the behaviors don't change–– some will be in prison in a couple of years." I congratulated her via email when her predictions began to show up in real time.


http://www.russiaotherpointsofview.com/2014/04/russia-report-putin-.ht
ml


You, THUGR, are doing exactly what my friend described. The reality is, you don't know shit about Putin. You've never met the man, you've never listened to people who HAVE worked with him (including the US Consul General who is quoted liberally in this article), you haven't listened to his speeches or read anything of his history or what he's done. All you know is what the press had hammered in your head for the past six months: Putin is a bad, bad man, An evil man. A megalomaniac. A tyrant. A despot wanting to take over the world

It would probably help you if actually learned something of which you opine so freely.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 21, 2014 11:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
That about sums up RWED. People speaking as experts about stuff they no little or nothing about.



MAGONS, my PM function isn't working. Would you like to be on the email list? If so, is there some way we can get in touch?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 22, 2014 10:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:

Negative assumption #1
Example: "You have never said you don't eat babies, so I'll assume you do."
Truth is, as I have stated many times, just as you do (though you continue to think you are the only one who knows this) I already know about America's atrocities. It's actually old fucking news. Your stats, and accusations are not private knowledge. This is going to come as a shock to your ego... but people *besides yourself* actually read and comprehend what they are reading.



G, there's no "negative assumption" here. It's not that you neglected to say that you don't agree with USA policy, it's that you positively averred that you're just not interested in talking or thinking about it because it just doesn't have any moral weight with you. Here, you own words, underlined for emphasis:

Quote:

Truth of the matter is I am much more fascinated by Russia's involvement in all of this - not to the exclusion of everything else - but it is to me, of all the stories, the bigger story.
If I'm cheer-leading for anything it's for Russia to be held accountable for their invasion of a sovereign country. [As opposed to... the USA's invasions?-SIGNY]
Typical obvious weak "but USA, whaaaa..." dodge. 67th time?
This is so completely, blindingly illogical: "If we are "not fighting" all of those nations, then Russia is "not fighting" Ukraine." It's beyond a false parallel.



Quote:

Unlike you I realize that bitching endlessly on a forum is not action - it's pandering if anything. You will effect no change posting here. Maybe you don't let yourself understand that to protect your ego?
You "bitching endlessly" about Russia is... what, again?

Quote:

Maybe you think no one should be interested in what Russia is doing? That seems to be what you are advocating. So maybe we should have a forum that only posts about the US atrocities then and nothing eles, nothing about Firefly just All US, All Bad, all the time? Maybe you should start a tv channel?-G

No, I just think that your hyperfocus on proving a particular point reflects your bias.



Quote:

68th time: because I don't know their story very well - it's the freedom to be curious. Maybe we should outlaw certain kinds of curiosity? Please tell me what I can be interested in. Are you sure you aren't Russian? You have certain parallel traits about restricting what people can be interested in.


I'm not telling you that you can't be interested in what Russia is doing. Heck, I'm interested in what Russia is doing. So, did you listen to the international press conference in Valdai? Catch any of Putin's State of the State before the Russian Assembly (Duma)? Listen to a little bit of the press conference that Putin just gave to over 2000 reporters, where he discussed such things as Moscow hospitals and parking? Read any of the link that I posted? Watch the (foreign) news for Russian international business deals?

You see, G, unlike you, I really am interested in what Russia is doing. You're not interested in that, your main goal is to prove a point.

Quote:

And now for the mother of all negative presumptions, the lie that keeps on giving:
How you feel about civilians being killed by Kiev- not giving a shit ... -SIGNY
And I'll state again for the thirtieth time: I could give a shit about Kiev.- G


In context, if you are honest (!) it was clear I didn't give a shit about Kiev propaganda - keep spinning though - it only shows your desperation. Go ahead, find this exchange:
"How you feel about civilians being killed by Kiev- not giving a shit ..."
You can't because it didn't happen, because you made it up. It's not even a good lie.



Here is your original statement in context:

Quote:

I really can't argue or discuss a topic with people that just make shit up as they go along. Your whole "Kiev is killing thousands of civilians" is the only defense you have for Russia's actions. I'll ask again: why are so determined to defend Russia? And I'll state again for the thirtieth time: I could give a shit about Kiev.
We weren't talking about Kiev's press, we were talking about Kiev killing thousands of civilians. You couldn't give a shit. It's very clear.

Quote:

So Signy, Kiki. Who is to blame when such a civilian area gets hit by retaliatory fire (not to mention the civilian areas the separatists were firing at)?-G

A legitimate question. It's war, people shoot at each other. If you put guns next to civilians you endanger them - simple. Keep refusing to believe it though.-G

There are no military HQs or defensive batteries in apartment buildings, stores, bus stops, power substations, water treatment plants etc.

Quote:

Your response to the repeated question "Do you support the shelling and killing of civilians to maintain a national boundary?" Deflect, deflect, deflect and deflect.-SIGNY

No, my response was I had already answered that question. As recently posted, from page one of the thread even, you even quoted me! "So very sad. (yes Kiki, I know these people were shelled by Ukraine)" I can't *make* you understand English better.



Hmmm... the failure of English appears to be yours, I didn't ask you if you KNEW about it, I asked if you SUPPORTED it. And damn, G, I must have asked that question a half-dozen times. It was a question you never could answer one way or another. Heck, you even asked me about slavery as an example of another "irrelevant" question, and even after I answered your question, you still couldn't answer mine.

And I bet you don't answer it here, either. And I'm sure you never will, at least not here. But maybe you should come up with an answer privately.

Quote:

Obvious humor in response to your super inane questions, and a clear dig at you for wishing 3 of us into non-existence (if that's not dead then I don't know what it is)

We love to try and kill each other because it's fun! (ironic comment about man's inhumanity toward man)
I'VE NEVER OWNED A BORDERS... BESIDES, BORDERS WENT OUT OF BUSINESS YEARS AGO. Keeping dead bodies in a Borders... creepy. (play on words, Borders book store going out of business? Hey, you made so much shit up I was bored, took a different tact)
I think they should be brined and roasted before they are shelled. (hilarious play on words!)
I am in favor of dead civilians - both sides, and especially innocent ones. Average people should be slaughtered enmass. Frankly, this world would be better without them.
(deadpan humor lost on the humorless, and a clear dig at you)
Not surprised if you don't understand humor, or just don't want to acknowledge it.


Hey, I know a really funny topic! The soldiers who came home from Iraq and Afghanistan missing legs, arms, eyes, and parts of brains! What a source of humor! I think you should make up a few funny lines about them too! Maybe something about "shake n bake"? Brain buckets? I mean, how funny is that???


Quote:

And your view of other posters
I respond because it gives me pleasure to tear down conceited types such as you and Signym.

Totally true - I've never seen such conceit and such lying by someone who professes to be so intelligent. If you are as smart as you'd like us to believe, you could just be honest and win the day, yes?

And then .... you object when (you think) people treat you badly online? HAHAHAHAHAHA

G, your moral stance came through LOUD AND CLEAR. As did KPO's and THUGR's, by the way:

You don't care about Kiev killing thousands of civilians and displacing a million. You don't care about the USA killing millions of civilians. No, the REAL story is that whatever Russia does is bad. Bad, bad, bad! By comparison, the USA and Kiev are so uninteresting you can hardly be bothered to think about them.


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 22, 2014 11:05 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Vladimir Putin, Raving Psychopath

You, THUGR, are doing exactly what my friend described. The reality is, you don't know shit about Putin. You've never met the man, you've never listened to people who HAVE worked with him (including the US Consul General who is quoted liberally in this article), you haven't listened to his speeches or read anything of his history or what he's done. All you know is what the press had hammered in your head for the past six months: Putin is a bad, bad man, An evil man. A megalomaniac. A tyrant. A despot wanting to take over the world

It would probably help you if actually learned something of which you opine so freely.



Funny how you can state I know nothing about Putin because I have never researched him at all. That's just a convenient assumption written by you to dismiss what I have posted. I only jump into the conversation on occasion to give you a poke in the eye. I enjoy it. I certainly do not expect a reasonable or honest response from you.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 22, 2014 11:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, what IS your knowledge of Putin? The reason why I assume that you don't know anything about him is because you haven't revealed any knowledge of him.

Do you know, for example, WHY Yeltsin appointed him? It's an interesting story that gets even more interesting with research.

You should at least read the link I posted. It will add to whatever store of knowledge that you already have.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 22, 2014 11:25 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, what IS your knowledge of Putin? The reason why I assume that you don't know anything about him is because you haven't revealed any knowledge of him.

Do you know, for example, WHY Yeltsin appointed him? It's an interesting story that gets even more interesting with research.

You should at least read the link I posted. It will add to whatever store of knowledge that you already have.



My knowledge of Putin consists of knowing he overplayed his hand as I stated in a post months ago. There is no way he gets out of the mess he created in the Ukraine without losing face. I am enjoying watching him squirm. As far as the Russian people go, as long as there hate for America at this point in history persists, I will enjoy watching them squirm and cry uncle as well. Besides, I have little respect for a country where the population are slaves to the government and like it.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 22, 2014 11:28 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

My knowledge of Putin consists of knowing he overplayed his hand as I stated in a post months ago. There is no way he gets out of the mess he created in the Ukraine without losing face. I am enjoying watching him squirm. As far as the Russian people go, as long as there hate for America at this point in history persists, I will enjoy watching them squirm and cry uncle as well. Besides, I have little respect for a country where the population are slaves to the government and like it.
Wow, you sure do know a lot, THUGR!


You should at least read the link I posted. It will add to whatever store of knowledge that you already have.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Russian losses in Ukraine
Mon, March 18, 2024 23:45 - 982 posts
Punishing Russia With Sanctions
Mon, March 18, 2024 23:44 - 496 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Mon, March 18, 2024 19:27 - 3338 posts
I'm surprised there's not an inflation thread yet
Mon, March 18, 2024 19:09 - 709 posts
Elections; 2024
Mon, March 18, 2024 19:08 - 1982 posts
Grifter Donald Trump Has Been Indicted And Yes Arrested; Four Times Now And Counting. Hey Jack, I Was Right
Mon, March 18, 2024 19:06 - 753 posts
MO AG Suing Large Nationwide Child Sex-slave Trafficker
Mon, March 18, 2024 15:24 - 2 posts
New Peer-Reviewed Research Finds Evidence of 2020 Voter Fraud
Mon, March 18, 2024 15:21 - 7 posts
RCP's No Toss-Up State Map (3-15-2024)
Mon, March 18, 2024 15:19 - 2 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Mon, March 18, 2024 08:03 - 6091 posts
Israeli War
Mon, March 18, 2024 01:27 - 31 posts
CNN: Is the US on the brink of another civil war?
Mon, March 18, 2024 01:22 - 1 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL