REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

New Trend - Shoot the Unarmed Black Man

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Friday, August 4, 2023 10:32
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Friday, September 26, 2014 5:41 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


It started with Trayvon Martin, then it was a another teen in Florida over loud music, there's the young father who was shot in an Ohio Walmart, John Crawford. Brown in Ferguson, then there's the latest a black man was shot in a gas station in South Carolina. Yes, you guessed it, by a white cop.

In that incident, the black man, Levar Jones, stopped at a gas station but was followed by State Trooper Sean Groubert because of a supposed seat belt violation.
The officer asked to see the driver's I.D. (the video from the Trooper's dash cam clearly shows) and Jones, in complying with the officer's request, reached into his car for his I.D. When the officer yells at him to "get out the car" but as Jones emerges from his car, Groubert begins to shoot him. Jones clearly puts up his hands and the trooper keeps shooting.

Take a look at the video, you'll see for yourself. The trooper was charged with aggravated assault. Now, the only reason why charges were levied was that it was all captured on tape, from the officer's dash cam. Otherwise, he would go free.

What the hell is going on with these cops today? It must be improper training, or is it?

I know some of you will have inappropriate comments to make, so let O' Festival begin...................


SGG

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Friday, September 26, 2014 7:21 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Rightly charged and rightly will face the music for this one.

However... , the suspect DID suddenly turn around and reach into his car, hands completely out of view. The cop had no idea what the suspect was reaching for, and the quick jittery way in which he did it, could be viewed as suspicious.

The cop barking orders caused the suspect to get nervous, and then he acted out in a nervous manner.


Far from any 'trend' as you suggest, though.

Just another isolated incident, as seen through the lens of a bit of hysteria.


( was that the inappropriate comment you were looking for ? )

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Friday, September 26, 2014 7:35 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Just another isolated incident ...

Another and isolated. Now those are two words that contradict each other.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, September 26, 2014 7:54 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Just another isolated incident ...

Another and isolated. Now those are two words that contradict each other.




One having nothing to do w/ the other... isolated.

But continue to see shapes in the clouds which really aren't there.

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Friday, September 26, 2014 7:58 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Just another isolated incident ...

Another and isolated. Now those are two words that contradict each other.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, September 26, 2014 8:43 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


And that sums up your ability to carry on a conversation .

Kiki want a cracker ?

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Friday, September 26, 2014 10:59 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
And that sums up your ability to carry on a conversation .

Kiki want a cracker ?

AURaptor just can't help being AURaptor.

Time for the video:



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, September 26, 2014 11:32 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


2nd want a cracker too? Vid already posted & seen.

Point ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, September 26, 2014 12:16 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Nothing "new" about it, it's always been this way, tis just by way of turning their intended surveillence society back around on them, it can no longer be swept under the rug as a "few bad apples" or "isolated incidents" no matter how hard jackboot lickers try.

I also wouldn't put too much faith in prosecution given the factual data in hand regarding how prosecutors softball the charges, often with some really bizarre legal contortions, since police-prosecutor collusion is part and parcel of the systematic corruption which allows this malaise to fester.
http://www.policemisconduct.net/
Have a look for yourself if you don't believe me.

As for the situation in question, the poor bastard never stood a chance, if he DOESN'T instantly obey, he gets shot or tased, and if he does, he gets shot or tased, how does he have an "out", I ask you ?

And of course, if the meteoric rise of reporting police abuse and catching them in the act (because, again, it's ALWAYS been this bad, it's what they are.) another problem now coming into the public eye is just how long and how often police see the occasional rape as a "perk of the work", and don't you just love what the suggested "defense" is...

Cop's Tip For Not Getting Raped By A Cop: 'Don't Get Pulled Over'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/23/oklahoma-police-rape_n_587075
2.html


This following on the heels of that ridiculous obey-or-else editorial, there's a certain undercurrent here of backhanded admission that the police are bad actors with malicious intent, and while our corrupt and degraded justice system would never in a million years admit it, there is some legal grounds for shooting first as a direct result of these discoveries and admissions.

Remember, the Supreme Court itself has stated that due to police conduct, immediate flight from their presence does not constitute probable cause because people might have good reason to fear and flee the police.

So, disturbing precedents are being set, most recent of which is a guy who fired on a no-knock raid because they failed to effectively identify themselves before going all hoo-rah.

Actions have consequences.
For maximum irony, would be a case where a black man shoots an off duty cop who belligerently threatened him and cites stand-your-ground.

-Frem

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Friday, September 26, 2014 10:52 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Don't forget a 22 year old unarmed black man gunned down in an Ohio Walmart. He was carrying a BB gun that he'd picked up in the store when he was killed. Actually, he'd already put the BB gun down when he was murdered by police.

This happened inside a Walmart, America's largest gun retailer, in Ohio, an open-carry state. Had he been carrying an actual loaded AR-15, he'd still have been committing no crime - except for being black, it seems.

Just another "isolated" incident, though. Just because a thing happens five or seven thousand times a year doesn't make it a trend. I mean, it's not like there were scary brown people beheading them or anything.

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Saturday, September 27, 2014 4:13 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Exactly! The video doesn't lie, it just records what's in front of it. This man was shot seemingly without warning or any type of SWAT strategy except shoot to kill.

Here's the thing: He was seen walking throughout the store with the gun, talking on his cell phone, passing by other shoppers who didn't give it a second thought as he passed.

The video was shown to the 911 caller who then changed his story. Curious.
(for those not familiar with the 911 call, the caller reported that he was pointing the gun at people. It is obvious from the video that was not the case).

Right on Point: In an OPEN CARRY state a man is shot because he was openly carrying A GUN. This just drips, no OVERFLOWS, with irony.

(Notice I said a man. He just so happens to be black, and we all know what that implies. Everyone else in creation in the state of Ohio can openly carry except...)

Of course, that 911 call set him up for disaster.

The police claim that they yelled for him to drop his weapon. There's no sound in this video, but it's clear to see that he was shot immediately upon the police entering the scene. So when and where did they issue the command to "Drop your weapon!"

What I would love to see is if others in the store were carrying a weapon. That would complete the ironic part to a T. Of course, that shouldn't matter.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Don't forget a 22 year old unarmed black man gunned down in an Ohio Walmart. He was carrying a BB gun that he'd picked up in the store when he was killed. Actually, he'd already put the BB gun down when he was murdered by police.

This happened inside a Walmart, America's largest gun retailer, in Ohio, an open-carry state. Had he been carrying an actual loaded AR-15, he'd still have been committing no crime - except for being black, it seems.

Just another "isolated" incident, though. Just because a thing happens five or seven thousand times a year doesn't make it a trend. I mean, it's not like there were scary brown people beheading them or anything.


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Saturday, September 27, 2014 4:33 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Oh that point did not escape me. Yes, you are right, this has been happening throughout history of this country. You can replace the word shoot with hang, beat, mutilate, incarcerate, drug and rape.

Video evidence is undeniable, but people will still LIE. The fact that the police showed the video to the 911 caller is proof of that. He changed his story. That's a bit late for Ooops.

Of course, our resident smarty, Mr. Auraptor, calls it an "isolated incident,"
actually he said "another isolated" incident. Irony of all ironies, that these words are spoken by him, about an "incident" - however "isolated" - that occurs again, in the capitol of GUN CENTRAL - WALMART - in an Open Carry state. Even Hollywood would say, "Not believable enough" send it back for rewrite.

Justice has turned it's vision elsewhere, the shooting has been deemed "justified."

Right on point Frem, which doesn't surprise me.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Nothing "new" about it, it's always been this way, tis just by way of turning their intended surveillence society back around on them, it can no longer be swept under the rug as a "few bad apples" or "isolated incidents" no matter how hard jackboot lickers try.

I also wouldn't put too much faith in prosecution given the factual data in hand regarding how prosecutors softball the charges, often with some really bizarre legal contortions, since police-prosecutor collusion is part and parcel of the systematic corruption which allows this malaise to fester.
http://www.policemisconduct.net/
Have a look for yourself if you don't believe me.

As for the situation in question, the poor bastard never stood a chance, if he DOESN'T instantly obey, he gets shot or tased, and if he does, he gets shot or tased, how does he have an "out", I ask you ?

And of course, if the meteoric rise of reporting police abuse and catching them in the act (because, again, it's ALWAYS been this bad, it's what they are.) another problem now coming into the public eye is just how long and how often police see the occasional rape as a "perk of the work", and don't you just love what the suggested "defense" is...

Cop's Tip For Not Getting Raped By A Cop: 'Don't Get Pulled Over'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/23/oklahoma-police-rape_n_587075
2.html


This following on the heels of that ridiculous obey-or-else editorial, there's a certain undercurrent here of backhanded admission that the police are bad actors with malicious intent, and while our corrupt and degraded justice system would never in a million years admit it, there is some legal grounds for shooting first as a direct result of these discoveries and admissions.

Remember, the Supreme Court itself has stated that due to police conduct, immediate flight from their presence does not constitute probable cause because people might have good reason to fear and flee the police.

So, disturbing precedents are being set, most recent of which is a guy who fired on a no-knock raid because they failed to effectively identify themselves before going all hoo-rah.

Actions have consequences.
For maximum irony, would be a case where a black man shoots an off duty cop who belligerently threatened him and cites stand-your-ground.

-Frem


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Saturday, September 27, 2014 4:40 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Frem has pointed out the error of my title to this thread, and which you have, ironically, confirmed in your statement.

Please, by all means, feel free to remove the words in the title "New" and "Trend"

I thank you!


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Rightly charged and rightly will face the music for this one.

However... , the suspect DID suddenly turn around and reach into his car, hands completely out of view. The cop had no idea what the suspect was reaching for, and the quick jittery way in which he did it, could be viewed as suspicious.

The cop barking orders caused the suspect to get nervous, and then he acted out in a nervous manner.


Far from any 'trend' as you suggest, though.

Just another isolated incident, as seen through the lens of a bit of hysteria.


( was that the inappropriate comment you were looking for ? )


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Saturday, September 27, 2014 5:09 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Just to satisfy my own feeling of self worth, i decided to track down the meaning of "another isolated incident"...................

Another: doesn't need exposition, we all know what "another" means; but here it is - being one more or more of the same

Isolated: here's one of it's meanings; "having minimal contact or little in common with others"

Incident: an event or occurrence

So, to bring it full circle: An event that has little in common with other events has taken place once more, in other words more of the same.

How can an event have both little in common with others and happen again, more of the same? In the world of Auraptor, anything is possible.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Rightly charged and rightly will face the music for this one.

However... , the suspect DID suddenly turn around and reach into his car, hands completely out of view. The cop had no idea what the suspect was reaching for, and the quick jittery way in which he did it, could be viewed as suspicious.

The cop barking orders caused the suspect to get nervous, and then he acted out in a nervous manner.


Far from any 'trend' as you suggest, though.

Just another isolated incident, as seen through the lens of a bit of hysteria.


( was that the inappropriate comment you were looking for ? )


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Saturday, September 27, 2014 8:37 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Random , unrelated incidents which have nothing to do with each other happen all the time.

Pretty self explanatory.





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Saturday, September 27, 2014 9:58 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Random , unrelated incidents which have nothing to do with each other happen all the time.

Pretty self explanatory.





Unless they're perpetrated by Muslims or progressives. Then they're part of a grand conspiracy.

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Saturday, September 27, 2014 10:21 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


No, Muslims flat out tell us what they're going to do. There is a common , clearly defined tie in with their actions, in contrast to the rare, unrelated incidents of shootings by cops. Most cops aren't looking to draw their weapon, while the actions of radical Muslims are overt & intentional. No radical Muslim regrets murdering an infidel. Every cop wishes he could avoid having to shoot.

Colossal difference there.

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Sunday, September 28, 2014 1:03 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


These "random" incidents have a common thread, it is a semi-coordinated effort to shoot any "dangerous" suspects of a certain persuasion.

Remember Ohio is a gun-toting state, Open Carry rules the day.

Let me say it straight out: I haven't heard of a single case whereby a man, of a certain persuasion, has been shot while toting his Open Carry Assault AR-15.
But a man with a BB Gun is shot on site without so much as a how-do-you-do!

There has been no report of a white male carrying a weapon out in public being shot by a law enforcement official. NONE!


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Random , unrelated incidents which have nothing to do with each other happen all the time.

Pretty self explanatory.






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Sunday, September 28, 2014 1:06 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Folks, Auraptor has gone to La-La Land


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
No, Muslims flat out tell us what they're going to do. There is a common , clearly defined tie in with their actions, in contrast to the rare, unrelated incidents of shootings by cops. Most cops aren't looking to draw their weapon, while the actions of radical Muslims are overt & intentional. No radical Muslim regrets murdering an infidel. Every cop wishes he could avoid having to shoot.

Colossal difference there.


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Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


La-la land ? Because I simply state the facts ?

Me thinks yo doth project too much, SGG.


And CWP ( conceal weapons permit ) is issued to those who have applied and who have passed a more intense background check, as I understand it. Why would any white, black, yellow, brown, red, man, or woman, be shot simply because they have a CWP and are carrying ?

Talk about trips to la-la land!


Quote:

Let me say it straight out: I haven't heard of a single case whereby a man, of a certain persuasion, has been shot while toting his Open Carry Assault AR-15.







Merely carrying this doesn't pose an imminent threat. Oh, and it's legal.


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Sunday, September 28, 2014 9:46 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
And that sums up your ability to carry on a conversation .

Kiki want a cracker ?

AURaptor just can't help being AURaptor.

Time for the video:



The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



Seatbelt violation? Good thing that stop was recorded, you can tell by listening to that cop that he knew he fucked up. He'll likely be a Mall cop very soon.

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Sunday, September 28, 2014 10:07 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by AURAPTOR:
La-la land ? Because I simply state the facts ?

Me thinks yo doth project too much, SGG.


And CWP ( conceal weapons permit ) is issued to those who have applied and who have passed a more intense background check, as I understand it. Why would any white, black, yellow, brown, red, man, or woman, be shot simply because they have a CWP and are carrying ?

Talk about trips to la-la land!


Quote:

Let me say it straight out: I haven't heard of a single case whereby a man, of a certain persuasion, has been shot while toting his Open Carry Assault AR-15.







Merely carrying this doesn't pose an imminent threat. Oh, and it's legal.






You don't know the difference between open-carry and concealed-carry, do you?

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Sunday, September 28, 2014 1:53 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Firstoff, a note on the Walmart shooting, the cops killed TWO people in that incident, one directly, the other indirectly.

Angela Williams: Woman’s Death Following Walmart Shooting Ruled Homicide
http://atlantadailyworld.com/2014/09/27/angela-williams-womans-death-f
ollowing-walmart-shooting-ruled-homicide
/
Quote:

Sharrett attributes the cause of her death to acute ventricular dysrhythmia due to hypertensive and arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Described otherwise, Williams had an irregular heartbeat causing a cardiac arrest as a consequence of heart disease. The report makes no note of drugs or alcohol in Williams’ system.

The manner of Williams’ death is officially listed as homicide because of the chaotic circumstances inside the Beavercreek Walmart, according William Harden, the Greene County Coroner’s Office chief investigator.


And of course, since the cops seem to operate on RappyLogic, no doubt they'll try to shovel this one off on the dead guy to deny their own negligence, because by listing cause of death as homicide, legally SOMEONE has to be held responsible for it.

Speaking of responsibility, I would lay some of the blame for both deaths also at the feet of the 911 caller, given that his/her actions lead directly to them and involved claims shown to be false.
This in particular gets my back up because this entire horrible chain of events was sparked and escalated by what I call a panicwhiner.
OMG, a GUN, aaaaieeeee, a terrifying inanimate object with an evil will of it's own which turns anyone who picks it up into a murderer, aieeeee, and it's carried by someone darker than me, aieeeee!"
Fact: I TOLD YOU that such disasters spring from this fucking attitude, that it all of itself results in death and destruction, and was as usual dismissed out-of-hand for it, and yet... here we are, again.

Speaking also of ridiculous panic over peoples skintone, en route to somewhere in Wayne County yesterday I spotted a trio of police vehicles, a cruiser and two SUVs, covering the margin and part of the road all lights a flashing - I figured an accident or maybe they found a body or something, but nope, as I carefully maneuvered around them what do I see in the middle of a thugscrum of five cops and a K9 ?
A young black CHILD, of no more than twelve, probably younger, sitting on a bicycle with a goddamn lollipop in his mouth, oh so scary...
*eyeroll*
Okay sure, for the sake of argument no matter how ludicrous maybe the kid was a suspect or something, for cryin out loud ONE cop would have been sufficient, and since it was a two man cruiser in the first place that's all the response necessary, ain't no damn excuse for that kind of excessive response - and yes this is all too typical.
Further along I noted a very angry and distressed white guy walking up the street with a hacksaw, and wondered if he'd get the same response (probably not) although for mine own I didn't find either one of em in the slightest bit suspicious, especially given that the latter was speckled with plaster or drywall or something, and on the block behind him was a hardware store, ergo an obvious conclusion there which of course tends to escape cops because rather than actually believing in probable cause they have this notion that nothing they see could ever be innocent.
And THAT, in and of itself is a problem, both a failure of training and speaking of institutional attitudes which are unacceptable.

And finally,
Video is just the first step, and there's implementation as well.
Firstoff, this equipment doesn't come cheap (although in the long run much cheaper than paying out lawsuits, sure) and so those demanding accountability are going to have to accept there's a short term rise in costs associated with that demand.

Second, those cameras HAVE to be tamperproof, with consequences for screwing with or damaging them.
http://www.dailytech.com/Cops+at+Historically+Troubled+LAPD+are+Sabota
ging+Digital+Recording+Devices/article34692.htm

Quote:

The officers already have a good deal of high tech equipment in an attempt to cut down on the rampant rates of officer abuse. But a critical flaw in that scheme has come to light in the past few months -- police officers appear to be sabotaging and vandalizing that taxpayer funded equipment in what appears to be a concerted effort to avoid accountability monitoring.

And legal precedent should be that if a cop disables their camera prior to an "incident" it should be taken as premeditation and any testimony from said cop should be considered dubious hearsay at best.

Third, you CAN NOT put the cops in charge of storing and releasing such footage for evidence purposes, the pattern of their conduct shows beyond doubt that tends to cause footage to suddenly disappear or become unusable.
Instead what we need to do is create a civilian review board drawn at random from the community itself randomly from the voter registration in the same way jury pools are formed, for 1 year terms, with appropriate reimbursement (basically this could be run off the jury system software without noteable cost-increase).
Reason for this method is that any other opens the process to corruption and regulatory capture by the police, police unions, FOP and the rest of their little mafia, which has rendered most civilian review boards so far useless at best, and collaborators at worst.

But the footage itself is not enough, as I said the boom needs to come down on prosecutors who refuse to hold them accountable by sabotaging their own investigation/prosecutions and/or softballing charges and sentencing, which is every bit as epidemic as the abuses by the boys in blue.
The Problem with Prosecuting Police in Washington State
http://www.policemisconduct.net/the-problem-with-prosecuting-police-in
-washington-state
/
Quote:

What does this mean?

An examination of the numbers indicates that, while law enforcement officers generally enjoy favorable treatment when facing criminal charges in the US generally, the problem appears significantly pronounced in Washington State. When we examine the data in combination with the history of criminal cases involving police officers in Washington it begins to appear as though the reason why police officers are so infrequently prosecuted is a combination of laws that prevent officers from being held accountable, juries who consistently refuse to convict police officers accused of criminal acts even when there is compelling testimony and evidence in favor of conviction, and prosecutors who appear risk averse when it comes to the prospects of prosecuting police officers for any reason.

It also becomes clear that, while it is generally difficult to prosecute law enforcement officers in the US in general, the ability to do so in Washington State is greatly hampered by a perfect storm of all these factors combined together in a way that forms a feedback loop of sorts which discourages prosecutors from prosecuting police officers with the same vigor as other members of the general population.

Because of this complex dynamic at play, bringing the prosecution and conviction rates back towards the norm in Washington would require more than just changing the law, it would also require a sea change of public perception, better training for prosecutors who need to use tactics than usual when prosecuting officer-involved cases against lawyers who specialize in defending police officers along with efforts to provide incentives to prosecutors who decide whether prosecuting a cop is worth the political risk of angering police unions that represent the officers they depend upon to do their jobs.


(emphasis mine)
Which is where the problem lies.
Because even if you have the footage, and the abuses are obvious, when a threatened and intimidated jury and prosecutor can't get it up you've still not moved the bar on accountability - and this at two levels because even if you get a prosecutor willing to all but selfdestruct their career there's also the matter of appeal so even having "one good man" isn't enough.

And so forth and so on.
Although this does remind me of a bit from a naval history I am reading.
Captain: "Well if we can get five minutes on them we can then.."
Bosun: "SIR!"
Captain: "Yes Boson ?"
Bosum: "First, get the five minutes, sir!"


Good advice, that - so, we need to get the cameras functional and in play wholesale before any of the rest would become viable anyways, so we needs "get the five minutes" here, for the moment.

-Frem

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Sunday, September 28, 2014 1:58 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Oh, and a final aside, in reference to some of the posted images above and the whole panic-factor I mentioned earlier.

I have on occasion run across someone lugging around that kind of hardware, the last of which I just eyeballed his stuff and commented "Bit excessive, that." to which his amused response was "Well, you never know." and there is that - I consider it impolite to lug around ranged weapons openly but given that I wouldn't want someone imposing their standards on me, I sure hell don't intend to impose mine on anyone else beyond mere commentary.

-Frem

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Sunday, September 28, 2014 2:39 PM

ELVISCHRIST





Meanwhile, here's some more "isolated incidents" that don't at all, in any way, point to any kind of culture of racism among the police:

Quote:

Los Angeles police officers removed antennas from police cars in several predominantly Black neighborhoods to disable the recording equipment and avoid being monitored while on duty, according to an inspection by LAPD investigators.
The department review found about half of the 80 cars in the Southeast division—which includes Watts and the Jordan Downs and Nickerson Gardens housing projects—were missing the antennas that help capture what officers say in the field. The review discovered at least 10 more cars in nearby divisions also had antennas removed.
Members of the Police Commission, which oversees the department, said they were alarmed by both the actions of the officers and the failure of the department to reveal their actions when they were first detected.



http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/04/08/lapd-officers-removed-antennas-
police-cars-disable-recording-devices
/


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Sunday, September 28, 2014 4:02 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Speaking of "isolated incidents" - remember what I said earlier, keep this fixed in your mind, as I go over this.
Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Remember, the Supreme Court itself has stated that due to police conduct, immediate flight from their presence does not constitute probable cause because people might have good reason to fear and flee the police.


(additional emphasis on salient point)

Search Is On For Two Suspects Wanted In Shooting Of Ferguson Police Officer
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/28/ferguson-officer-shooting_n_5
895494.html

Quote:

Although there were two separate protests about the Aug. 9 shooting of Michael Brown happening around the time the officer was shot Saturday night, St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said he didn't think they were related in any way to the attack on the officer.

The men fled when the officer approached them at around 9 p.m. because the community center they were standing outside of was closed, Belmar said at a news conference early Sunday. When the officer gave chase, one of the men turned and shot him in the arm, he said.

Belmar said the officer is expected to survive, but he didn't identify the officer or give further details about his condition. He said the officer returned fire, but that police have no indication that either suspect was shot.


So, a cop from a department formed from the tatters of one closed down for abuses, and itself under investigation for some really outrageous conduct they keep doubling down on...
Approaches two men for no particular reason other than that they are standing in front of a closed building (probably watching the protests) who have EVERY REASON IN THE WORLD to be afraid of him.

Said people then run from him, again, see above.
Now said officer, sans probable cause, gives chase to a pair of persons probably at this point in fear for their lives as they have someone they suspect means them harm chasing them.

One of said persons then, in fear for their life, opens fire on the officer, who returns fire, and in the chaos of the shootout successfully escape without being beaten, tased, choked to death or shot.
You know what that sounds like to me ?
SELF DEFENSE.

And of course the police are throwing a hissy, despite that the officer in question created by his own actions the very situation which endangered him, in much the same fashion police officers step in front of moving car in order to provide the excuse that they were in danger so they can shoot.

Of course, as also mentioned above, given the officers lack of legal justification, and interpretation of stand-your-ground laws (not sure if MO is SYD or not) by that assessment of events those folks the cop was chasing had EVERY LEGAL RIGHT to open fire on him.

Irony: Thy name is Ferguson.

Also from the article above.
Quote:

Also early Sunday, not far from Ferguson, an off-duty St. Louis city police officer was injured on Interstate 70 when three suspects fired shots into his personal vehicle, a police spokeswoman said.

Schron Jackson said the officer, who has nearly 20 years of experience, was being treated at a hospital for a minor injury to his arm from broken glass. She said there is no reason to believe the two shootings were related.


Other than related to the abuses of the police against the community, that is.
Again, you keep doin shit to people, eventually they're gonna do shit to YOU, simple logic here.
Which also, again, explains WHY the cops want those damn MRAPs so fucking much, they know damn well that if they continue, and continue to escalate this conduct (which they completely intend to do) that it's not going to stop with just assassination attempts, it *WILL* come to boobytraps and IEDs just like I keep saying.

-Frem


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Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:23 PM

ELVISCHRIST


A sobering fact: Far more Americans have been killed by police since 9/11 than by terrorists.

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Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:


You don't know the difference between open-carry and concealed-carry, do you?



Sure I do, but it doesn't matter.

Those w/ permits aren't the problem. In fact, they're often the solution.

Quote:

A sobering fact: Far more Americans have been killed by police since 9/11 than by terrorists.



How is that suppose to be " sobering " ?? How do you even arrive at that number ? And what difference does it make? You're comparing apples to orange, for nothing but shock value.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:49 PM

ELVISCHRIST


What permits do you need to open-carry?


Since 9/11, roughly 100 times more Americans have been killed by the police than by terrorists. In fact, the number of Americans killed by police is now about the same as the number of Americans killed in Iraq.


But please, don't ever let the facts get in the way of your grandstanding and panic-mongering.

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Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:54 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

How is that suppose to be " sobering " ?? How do you even arrive at that number ? And what difference does it make? You're comparing apples to orange, for nothing but shock value.




How is that supposed to be sobering? Well, if you're worried about the threat of radical Islam, you really should be worried more about the threat of militarized thugs we call "police."

How do I arrive at that number? Through research, and through looking up the stats. You should really try it sometime.

What difference does it make? You don't think it makes a difference if you're 100 times more likely to be murdered by a cop than by a terrorist? If you're not worried about cops, why are you worried about terrorists?

"Shock value." Why was it you posted about someone cutting off a person's head, if not for shock value? You find that shocking, but find the routine murder of unarmed black men by police "isolated" and no big deal.

If you think it's for shock value, maybe that's because you should be shocked.

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Monday, September 29, 2014 1:53 PM

ELVISCHRIST

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Monday, September 29, 2014 6:31 PM

ELVISCHRIST





And of course this guy's now on paid vacation. I mean "administrative leave."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/boston-cop-with-racist-homophobic-p
ro-rape-facebook-page-busted-by-local-tv
/

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Wednesday, October 1, 2014 7:49 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
A sobering fact: Far more Americans have been killed by police since 9/11 than by terrorists.


And far, far more have been killed by black men who were not killed by police in time. Probably many of them unarmed black men, as well.

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Thursday, October 2, 2014 2:13 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Thank you very much Captain Obvious, you just proved my point. "Open Carry" I said nothing about "concealed" weapon..........that would mean that someone had a hidden weapon on their person.

Let me type this slowly so you understand.......Open Carry is not concealed weapon.

Ok, now let's see. What's in the pictures? People are OPENLY carrying weapons of mass destruction and no one is lying down bleeding with Policemen standing over their corpses.

All the people in your pictures are standing upright without any holes in them (other than the type God intended). That's normal!

Do you consider what they are doing as threatening? No, right. So then why, in their infinite wisdom, did they shoot on site a man OPENLY carrying a weapon?


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by AURAPTOR:
La-la land ? Because I simply state the facts ?

Me thinks yo doth project too much, SGG.


And CWP ( conceal weapons permit ) is issued to those who have applied and who have passed a more intense background check, as I understand it. Why would any white, black, yellow, brown, red, man, or woman, be shot simply because they have a CWP and are carrying ?

Talk about trips to la-la land!


Quote:

Let me say it straight out: I haven't heard of a single case whereby a man, of a certain persuasion, has been shot while toting his Open Carry Assault AR-15.







Merely carrying this doesn't pose an imminent threat. Oh, and it's legal.



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Thursday, October 2, 2014 11:09 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Folks, Auraptor has gone to La-La Land


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
No, Muslims flat out tell us what they're going to do. There is a common , clearly defined tie in with their actions, in contrast to the rare, unrelated incidents of shootings by cops. Most cops aren't looking to draw their weapon, while the actions of radical Muslims are overt & intentional. No radical Muslim regrets murdering an infidel. Every cop wishes he could avoid having to shoot.

Colossal difference there.




Gone to? He's been the president there for years.



“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

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Thursday, October 2, 2014 11:10 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
A sobering fact: Far more Americans have been killed by police since 9/11 than by terrorists.


And far, far more have been killed by black men who were not killed by police in time. Probably many of them unarmed black men, as well.



Flaunt that racism. Might as well, since you don't actually posses any redeeming qualities.



“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

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Thursday, October 2, 2014 5:26 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Folks, Auraptor has gone to La-La Land

SGG
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
No, Muslims flat out tell us what they're going to do. There is a common , clearly defined tie in with their actions, in contrast to the rare, unrelated incidents of shootings by cops. Most cops aren't looking to draw their weapon, while the actions of radical Muslims are overt & intentional. No radical Muslim regrets murdering an infidel. Every cop wishes he could avoid having to shoot.

Colossal difference there.



Gone to? He's been the president there for years.


Which delusions are you suffering now? It is so hard to keep track of your fantasies, they blur into each other so.

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Thursday, October 2, 2014 5:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
A sobering fact: Far more Americans have been killed by police since 9/11 than by terrorists.


And far, far more have been killed by black men who were not killed by police in time. Probably many of them unarmed black men, as well.


Speaking of which, what are the statistics on people killed by unarmed black men? And maybe unarmed black teens? However many, each of them should have been shot.

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Thursday, October 2, 2014 6:23 PM

FREMDFIRMA



And it seems a thing, now - demand compliance in an angry, threatening manner and then when the poor bastard hops to comply, shoot/tase/beat them anyway.

Florida Officer Tases 62-Year-Old Woman In the Back Just for the Hell of It
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/florida-officer-tases-62-year-
old-woman-back-just-hell-it

Quote:

October 1, 2014

After police arrived on the scene of her Tallahassee, Florida, neighborhood, 62-year-old Viola Young asked them why they were there. Told to turn around, Young did so and walked away.

While walking away, at just about 2:31 in this video shot by a local resident, the officer brutally uses his stun gun to tase Young in the back. Immediately, she falls flat on her face. It's brutal.

No charges have been brought and the officer is currently on paid leave.



So, in light of all the incidents mentioned here, look at the options.

1. Don't comply, get shot/tased/beaten.
2. Comply, get shot/tased/beaten.
OR..
(and this in reference to the above Ferguson incident)
3. Shoot first, shoot fast and flee - GET HOME SAFE AND SOUND.

Sure looks to me that police conduct is directly influencing their own safety in a really negative way here - what's it say when of all these incidents the ONLY ones who came out of it unscathed and unmolested were those who opened fire on a cop, and all the ones who didn't were treated to various levels of abuse up to and including death ?

I think via preponderance of evidence that there is some degree of legal justification to be "in fear for ones life" and initiate hostilities with a cop, up to and including lethal force, because the instant you so much as don't supplicate yourself fast enough for their liking (and maybe even if you do) that *IS* the reaction you'll face - and the legal question of Tasers has been settled on that already, if it's a lethal weapon (for purpose of law) when pointed by a civilian, it's still a lethal weapon (for purpose of law) when a cop points one at you.
Ergo ANY confrontation with an abusive officer *MUST* go into lethal force immediately because the officers training and reaction leaves utterly no alternative.

The courts will no doubt twist and squirm as long as possible to avoid this ugly reality in order to protect the pets that feed them and their corrupted system, but just as the meteoric rise in reporting has finally brought home beyond dispute that police conduct as a whole is downright monstrous, so too will demands for self-defense clauses and accountability until they are also undeniable.

And the badges have no one to blame for that but themselves.

-Frem

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Saturday, October 4, 2014 3:54 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
A sobering fact: Far more Americans have been killed by police since 9/11 than by terrorists.


And far, far more have been killed by black men who were not killed by police in time. Probably many of them unarmed black men, as well.


Speaking of which, what are the statistics on people killed by unarmed black men? And maybe unarmed black teens? However many, each of them should have been shot.


Found some stats, should look for more.

From 2010, 5.8% of murders were commited by unarmed offenders.
42% of robberies were commited by unarmed offenders.
27.4% of assaults were committed by unarmed offenders.

Apparently, exposing the number of unarmed black men committing these crimes is taboo.

Fortunately, George Zimmerman and Brian Wilson did not allow themselves to become statistics, and saved the rest of our civilization from the same.

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Sunday, October 5, 2014 9:06 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
A sobering fact: Far more Americans have been killed by police since 9/11 than by terrorists.


And far, far more have been killed by black men who were not killed by police in time. Probably many of them unarmed black men, as well.




And far, far more than that have been killed by white men - many of them unarmed women, since those are usually the only people white dudes think they can take in a fight, and they still have to bring a gun to compensate for their lack of manhood.

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Sunday, October 5, 2014 9:09 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Thank you very much Captain Obvious, you just proved my point. "Open Carry" I said nothing about "concealed" weapon..........that would mean that someone had a hidden weapon on their person.

Let me type this slowly so you understand.......Open Carry is not concealed weapon.

Ok, now let's see. What's in the pictures? People are OPENLY carrying weapons of mass destruction and no one is lying down bleeding with Policemen standing over their corpses.

All the people in your pictures are standing upright without any holes in them (other than the type God intended). That's normal!

Do you consider what they are doing as threatening? No, right. So then why, in their infinite wisdom, did they shoot on site a man OPENLY carrying a weapon?


SGG





It's only threatening behavior if a black man is doing it. Concealed carry? If it's a black dude, he's obviously a thug or a gangster. Open carry? He's brandishing and threatening.

For white America, just the act of being black in public is seen as threatening behavior.


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Sunday, October 5, 2014 8:17 PM

OONJERAH


Quote ElvisChrist: "For white America, just the act of being black in public is seen as threatening behavior."

Yes.
Last few years, I've read 2 or 3 times that "young black male" is, by far, the
most dangerous demographic to be. Even with many of them off the streets
in prison according to stats, YBMs know that their chances of being killed on
purpose by another human being before the age of 30 are pretty darn high.

Should they move to the Bahamas, Barbados, Haiti or Jamaica til they look older?



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Part of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at.

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Sunday, October 5, 2014 11:14 PM

ELVISCHRIST

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Sunday, October 5, 2014 11:17 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Quote ElvisChrist: "For white America, just the act of being black in public is seen as threatening behavior."

Yes.
Last few years, I've read 2 or 3 times that "young black male" is, by far, the
most dangerous demographic to be. Even with many of them off the streets
in prison according to stats, YBMs know that their chances of being killed on
purpose by another human being before the age of 30 are pretty darn high.

Should they move to the Bahamas, Barbados, Haiti or Jamaica til they look older?



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Part of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at.




No, they should video it and call it out.


Actor Wendell Pierce on "Real Time:" (Jump to 6:25 for a real eye-opener)


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Sunday, October 5, 2014 11:42 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.







SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, October 6, 2014 3:15 AM

OONJERAH


The link: youtube.com/watch?v=1g_Zvak2QBw ... put http://www. in front.

Apparently, the poster of the video does not allow it to be played
from other sites than YouTube. So copy the link above. Paste it into
your browser address, &... Does it work?
Title of video:
Wendell Pierce on white violence, entitlement and racial messaging

Bravo, Wendell Pierce! Very sensible, very informative. Sobering &
terrible.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Part of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at.

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Monday, October 6, 2014 6:39 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Quote ElvisChrist: "For white America, just the act of being black in public is seen as threatening behavior."

Yes.
Last few years, I've read 2 or 3 times that "young black male" is, by far, the
most dangerous demographic to be.


Yep. That's what Jesse Jackson said - that he is so relieved to find that the person walking behind him is not a black man. Does that mean he is racist? Or that he is developing a modicum of sense?

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Wednesday, October 8, 2014 10:19 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Now here's an interesting take on the problem.

White woman defends black man from US police
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-29544145
Quote:

Two Washington Metro Police officers - both black - were responding to a household burglary alarm in a posh District of Columbia neighbourhood and encountered a 64-year-old black man carrying two bags. When they questioned him, they say he became "loud and boisterous". They ordered him to the ground.

At that point, a local resident - a middle-aged white woman named Jody Westby - came out from her house and confronted the police.

She instructed her housekeeper to record the events. She said she knew the man - a local worker - and that the police had no right to detain him. She told the officers that she was a lawyer and, upon learning the address of the burglary report, that they weren't even on the right street.

She grabbed the detained man's hand and said she was leaving, telling the police to "please leave our neighbourhood".

The officer reluctantly let Ms Westby and the man go.

As she walked away, Ms Westby said: "Just because he's black doesn't mean he's here to rob a house. He works for us. He's been in this neighbourhood for 30 years."

Yates writes that the situation likely would have been much different if the incident had occurred in a less affluent neighbourhood or Ms Westby hadn't been white.

"The level of comfort with which she communicates with the officers due to her knowledge of the law and lack of fear of retribution offers a lesson about how the intersection of race, class and privilege can impact the interactions between police officers and some residents," he says.


It does raise a bit of a point, this - muchlike how I pointed out that in cases of sexual abuse or assault, one of the problems is how none of the guys step up and speak out... I wonder if perhaps there isn't a corrolation with us palefaces not stepping up when the cops are shaking down some person of color - sure you can pull out a camera, but as courts and prosecutors have been shown willing to ignore even incontrivertable evidence, how much good does that do, long after the fact, after lives have been lost or destroyed, and all it amounts to is a slap on the wrist if even that ?

So why not USE "white privledge" in a positive way ?
And yes I am well aware one risks obstruction charges or a flat out ass kicking, I've been told as much myself previously by a cop who threatened to "kick your cracker ass too!" when I stepped in on behalf of one of our residents he was giving crap for a damn curfew violation.

Mind you, this is private fucking property, and it's my JOB to enforce our property rights, so their stupid curfew does not apply HERE - said cop spotted the youth from across the street, as he was taking trash to the dumpster and then came onto our property and started hassling him, at which point I came round the dumpster and called him on this, and after said threat pointed out that he was about to engage in the unwarranted assault of a uniformed security officer in performance of his duties within the view of two nightvision security cameras.
Which caused him to immediately shut up and LEAVE.
So I walked the resident back to his unit without further incident, poor kid was scared about witless, especially as being a new resident he'd assumed I was coming to back the cop up...

Sometimes being willing/prepared to do a thing means not having to do that thing, certainly it's not the first time a badge threatened to rough me up, and as I've said before "Oh you probably could kick my ass, point is that you'll HAVE to.."
I wonder that if more white people were willing to risk a beating to stop one, if that might not have some deterrent effect on the situation.

-Frem

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Thursday, October 9, 2014 3:51 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


You bring up an interesting point Frem. I think that both her being white and affluent had a lot to do with their reaction, or lack thereof. Of course, it didn't hurt that she was an attorney. It all depends on the circumstances...........

I just saw on the news this evening that a NY cop was caught robbing a black man of his money, all on video, but because it was in one of the poorer neighborhoods, he got away with it........so far.

The video shows the cop frisking the black man, reaching into his pocket, pulling out a wad of cash and putting it in his (cop's) pocket. When the man protested and asked for the money to be returned, the cop sprayed Pepper Spray into the black man's face. When a companion complained the cop sprayed her face as well. The video also showed about 2 or 3 cops standing by and watching this take place.

The PBA, in their infinite wisdom, put out a statement saying that a 30 second video doesn't tell the whole story of what took place and that people should stop interfering with the police in the execution of their duties. You could see, plain as day, that the cop pulled out the money, looked at it, and then stuffed it into his pocket. The man had proof it was his and obtained through his job.

Oh, it gets better Frem. Neither the black man or his companion were arrested, and the cops claim there was no money..........it wasn't reported into evidence by the cop. Of course, the man is suing.

Then there's the Indiana cops who busted a driver's window following a traffic stop because of no seat belt. The minivan had a woman driving with her family in the car, including 2 kids, and the passenger was asked to show his ID. And it escalated from there.

The family were on their way to visit a sick relative. There is a video.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Now here's an interesting take on the problem.

White woman defends black man from US police
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-29544145
Quote:

Two Washington Metro Police officers - both black - were responding to a household burglary alarm in a posh District of Columbia neighbourhood and encountered a 64-year-old black man carrying two bags. When they questioned him, they say he became "loud and boisterous". They ordered him to the ground.

At that point, a local resident - a middle-aged white woman named Jody Westby - came out from her house and confronted the police.

She instructed her housekeeper to record the events. She said she knew the man - a local worker - and that the police had no right to detain him. She told the officers that she was a lawyer and, upon learning the address of the burglary report, that they weren't even on the right street.

She grabbed the detained man's hand and said she was leaving, telling the police to "please leave our neighbourhood".

The officer reluctantly let Ms Westby and the man go.

As she walked away, Ms Westby said: "Just because he's black doesn't mean he's here to rob a house. He works for us. He's been in this neighbourhood for 30 years."

Yates writes that the situation likely would have been much different if the incident had occurred in a less affluent neighbourhood or Ms Westby hadn't been white.

"The level of comfort with which she communicates with the officers due to her knowledge of the law and lack of fear of retribution offers a lesson about how the intersection of race, class and privilege can impact the interactions between police officers and some residents," he says.


It does raise a bit of a point, this - muchlike how I pointed out that in cases of sexual abuse or assault, one of the problems is how none of the guys step up and speak out... I wonder if perhaps there isn't a corrolation with us palefaces not stepping up when the cops are shaking down some person of color - sure you can pull out a camera, but as courts and prosecutors have been shown willing to ignore even incontrivertable evidence, how much good does that do, long after the fact, after lives have been lost or destroyed, and all it amounts to is a slap on the wrist if even that ?

So why not USE "white privledge" in a positive way ?
And yes I am well aware one risks obstruction charges or a flat out ass kicking, I've been told as much myself previously by a cop who threatened to "kick your cracker ass too!" when I stepped in on behalf of one of our residents he was giving crap for a damn curfew violation.

Mind you, this is private fucking property, and it's my JOB to enforce our property rights, so their stupid curfew does not apply HERE - said cop spotted the youth from across the street, as he was taking trash to the dumpster and then came onto our property and started hassling him, at which point I came round the dumpster and called him on this, and after said threat pointed out that he was about to engage in the unwarranted assault of a uniformed security officer in performance of his duties within the view of two nightvision security cameras.
Which caused him to immediately shut up and LEAVE.
So I walked the resident back to his unit without further incident, poor kid was scared about witless, especially as being a new resident he'd assumed I was coming to back the cop up...

Sometimes being willing/prepared to do a thing means not having to do that thing, certainly it's not the first time a badge threatened to rough me up, and as I've said before "Oh you probably could kick my ass, point is that you'll HAVE to.."
I wonder that if more white people were willing to risk a beating to stop one, if that might not have some deterrent effect on the situation.

-Frem


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