REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Foolish Humanz!

POSTED BY: JO753
UPDATED: Friday, October 3, 2014 19:03
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Saturday, August 30, 2014 10:06 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Therez a subplot in the Simpsonz Hit & Run game about the alienz, Kang and Kodos. Sumthing about a TV show on the galactic network called Foolish Humanz.

Stuff about idiots haz alwayz been popular, so if there iz sum sort uv galactic civilization, It woud make sense that we woud be prolific contributorz.

The human race az a group iz effectively a complete idiot. The only reazon we hav dominated the planet iz bekuz uv the invention uv money, wich functionz az a sort uv artificial cooperation motivator.

Duznt work very well. Everybody iz working for money rather than money working for us. A good idea will go nowhere unless sumwun with money thinks he can make more money with it. But bad ideaz often proliferate rapidly wen rich people think they will make money frum them. The bottom line iz that money itself iz the boss!

Frum an objectiv view, our civilization iz a mindless brute, killing all the other speciez and ruining the world we are completely dependant on to stay alive.

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Saturday, August 30, 2014 1:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Absolutely.

Hubby has taken to comparing human intelligence to termites. When I see a cluster of skyscrapers, I can't help but agree.

However, the REAL driver of our success is our ability to teach and learn, via complex language. That allows a chain of thought to continue and develop through generations.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:17 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Therez a professor (Searle or sumthing like that) who makes a good case for the idea that the ritten word iz the essential cornerstone uv civilization.

But can society az an entity learn?

It seemz to me that our individual negativ cognativ traits are embodied in large groups more than the pozitiv wunz. The bigger the group - a village, a religion, a trade association, a state, a nation - the harder it iz to change it. Bad ideaz get cemented in az tradition.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Violent revolutions are the check/balance for those bad idea traditions. And Wars.

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Saturday, August 30, 2014 6:00 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I dont know, man. That duznt seem to be working out too well in the middle east.

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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Saturday, August 30, 2014 6:24 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
I dont know, man. That duznt seem to be working out too well in the middle east.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com


When they tire of thousands of years of war, they will consider ending thousands of years of bad ideas and devolution.

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Sunday, August 31, 2014 11:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Just to get back to the thread topic....

Language, like money and technology, has become our master. just as we can transmit abstract ideas like "electron" and "evolution", we can also transmit pointless ideas like "purple dragons", and even inimical ideas like "god" and "efficiency".

That is where humans ARE foolish: the tools that we use- use us. We should be wise enough to manipulate our tools for the desired outcome, not to be propelled willy-nilly into the future according to THEIR logical outcomes.

So I agree with you JO753, not only with the specifics of making English a phonetic language, but also with the general idea that we should be consciously reflecting our needs and goals into our language and our other tools (including money), and not just being unconscious carriers of a foreign logic.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, August 31, 2014 4:45 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


"Unconscious careers of a foriegn logic".

Thats a darn good way to fraze it!

Thanks for the akseptans uv Nooalf. Not many literate native speakerz uv English can rize above their orijinal programming.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Monday, September 1, 2014 1:39 AM

OONJERAH



If sense were common, everyone would have it.
Mob mentality & greed vs Wisdom. Conquest vs Cooperation.
If Future reflects our History ... looks like it will,

I think we are @#*& hopeless.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Thursday, September 4, 2014 6:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Just to get back to the thread topic....

Language, like money and technology, has become our master. just as we can transmit abstract ideas like "electron" and "evolution", we can also transmit pointless ideas like "purple dragons", and even inimical ideas like "god" and "efficiency".

That is where humans ARE foolish: the tools that we use- use us. We should be wise enough to manipulate our tools for the desired outcome, not to be propelled willy-nilly into the future according to THEIR logical outcomes.

So I agree with you JO753, not only with the specifics of making English a phonetic language, but also with the general idea that we should be consciously reflecting our needs and goals into our language and our other tools (including money), and not just being unconscious carriers of a foreign logic.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.


Are you requiring the acceptance of the "money is a required evil" part to support your claims, or are you intending your statements to stand without that foundation?
I cannot agree with the portions of the OP regarding the currency, so I'm wondering if you are leaving me out in left field, or are you trying to make sense without that given prerequisite?

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Friday, September 5, 2014 1:02 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

If sense were common, everyone would have it.
Mob mentality & greed vs Wisdom. Conquest vs Cooperation.
If Future reflects our History ... looks like it will,

I think we are @#*& hopeless.



Goverment by rival gangz iz wut we hav.

Can you imajin trying to run a factory like that? Not only woud product rarely get shipped, but wutever did woud be junk kuz the gangz woud alwayz be sabatajing each otherz work!

Wut amazez me iz that its basicly been this way all along, yet America sumhow still manajd to dominate the world.

Wut we need iz a benevolent dictatorship by an AI.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Friday, September 5, 2014 3:15 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Are you requiring the acceptance of the "money is a required evil" part to support your claims, or are you intending your statements to stand without that foundation?
I cannot agree with the portions of the OP regarding the currency, so I'm wondering if you are leaving me out in left field, or are you trying to make sense without that given prerequisite?

I'm not sure I understand your question, if that is a question.

"Money" has a logic to it. It's not immediately useful like food or water or mobile phones. Rather, it's an abstraction of "value" that allows people to engage in complex exchanges of goods without engaging in something as clumsy as multi-party barter.

However, once people accept that money has "value" although it isn't immediately useful, then people can start doing things with "money" besides the exchange of goods: they can save it, lend and borrow it, even print it, and those who save (or print) more of this stuff called "money" can acquire more and more goods than their production justifies, in the case of printing or borrowing can obtain immediate goods in exchange for future (often non-existant) production. Entire cultures are wrapped around "money".

For me, the difference was made clear when I was thinking about "profit" as a form of "savings" ... not an entirely bad concept, not consuming everything you produce. The problem is, there is a difference between unspent money (called "savings") and unconsumed goods (called "surplus"). Surplus.... more water, more wheat, more cotton than you can use today, set aside in consideration of possible lean years tomorrow ... is far more useful than setting aside paper or electronic bits or even gold.

But the physical presence and concept of "money" has decoupled our notion of wealth from the act of production. Like I said, it has its own logic, and it has wrapped THIS society around it.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, September 6, 2014 1:57 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Exellent explanation.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Thursday, September 11, 2014 4:03 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I tried to send you a message, Signym, but the system duznt seem to work.

Woud you be interested in helping with the Nooalf project?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Thursday, September 11, 2014 6:16 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Are you requiring the acceptance of the "money is a required evil" part to support your claims, or are you intending your statements to stand without that foundation?
I cannot agree with the portions of the OP regarding the currency, so I'm wondering if you are leaving me out in left field, or are you trying to make sense without that given prerequisite?

I'm not sure I understand your question, if that is a question.

"Money" has a logic to it. It's not immediately useful like food or water or mobile phones. Rather, it's an abstraction of "value" that allows people to engage in complex exchanges of goods without engaging in something as clumsy as multi-party barter.

However, once people accept that money has "value" although it isn't immediately useful, then people can start doing things with "money" besides the exchange of goods: they can save it, lend and borrow it, even print it, and those who save (or print) more of this stuff called "money" can acquire more and more goods than their production justifies, in the case of printing or borrowing can obtain immediate goods in exchange for future (often non-existant) production. Entire cultures are wrapped around "money".

For me, the difference was made clear when I was thinking about "profit" as a form of "savings" ... not an entirely bad concept, not consuming everything you produce. The problem is, there is a difference between unspent money (called "savings") and unconsumed goods (called "surplus"). Surplus.... more water, more wheat, more cotton than you can use today, set aside in consideration of possible lean years tomorrow ... is far more useful than setting aside paper or electronic bits or even gold.

But the physical presence and concept of "money" has decoupled our notion of wealth from the act of production. Like I said, it has its own logic, and it has wrapped THIS society around it.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.


Are you suggesting that no other society has hoarded gold?

If you are claiming that the rate of earning money is not connected to the amount of productivity or work, then are you disregarding the value and judgement of the consumer, who is the ultimate arbiter of how much products and services are worth, not the producer? The producer merely finds which products or services can be provided to the consumer without going broke, and discards the rest (being non-profitable).

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Friday, September 12, 2014 12:09 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:


If you are claiming that the rate of earning money is not connected to the amount of productivity or work, then are you disregarding the value and judgement of the consumer



I like to watch 3 moviez about money. Wall Street, Glenn Gary Glenn Ross and Boiler Room. From your above sentence, I dont think youv seen them.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Sunday, September 14, 2014 12:58 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Are you suggesting that no other society has hoarded gold?
No, I'm suggesting that the presence of "money" ... i.e. an item which is an abstraction of "value", which represents the items being exchanged but is not the items themselves... twists ANY society that it exists in. All you need to do to see this is the influence that money (gold or currency) had in the Roman empire, in Medieval times, the various monarchies of Europe, the mercantilists, the British Empire, company towns etc. Wherever money exists, there seems to be problems with hoarding, debt, inflation, financialism, greed, inequity, depressions etc.

Quote:

If you are claiming that the rate of earning money is not connected to the amount of productivity or work, then are you disregarding the value and judgement of the consumer, who is the ultimate arbiter of how much products and services are worth, not the producer? The producer merely finds which products or services can be provided to the consumer without going broke, and discards the rest (being non-profitable).
Are you talking about the role of money, or the concept of profit?

AFA money is concerned, when it becomes so abstracted that it no longer represents real goods, then it is twisting the economy. That is where we stand today: Money is being "made" (literally, manufactured) by the banks and used to make bets on future events, or loaned in the promise of future production. The futures market represents something like 10X world production, and debt represents something like 3-4X current production. Clearly, "money" no longer represents tradeable goods. The non-productive uses that "money" is put to can continue for a while, based on common trust and military and political might, but once that trust is broken it's value evaporates faster than frost at sunrise.

AFA "profit" is concerned... Profits depend on sales. Sales depend on demand. Demand depends on customers having money.

If an economy systematically withdraws money from a large group of people, sooner or later demand falls and the economy grinds to a halt.
America's Poor Have Never Been Deeper In Debt
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-13/americas-poor-have-never-been
-deeper-debt


Kohl's And The Rest Of The Retailers Are In Deep Trouble
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-14/kohls-and-rest-retailers-are-
deep-trouble


At that point, those WITH money can seek to "make money" though non-productive bets and games, as outlined above. Hey, do you want to take bets on Sears' bankruptcy?





--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, September 14, 2014 1:01 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Woud you be interested in helping with the Nooalf project?
If I had a crap-ton of time, sure.

But I'm now playing tennis twice a week (for my health), and along with a full-time job and sick/ disabled family members, plus the time I spend musing here on this board which helps me to synthesize my thoughts (which will be less for a while), I really don't have much time to spare.

Sorry. It's an interesting project tho.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, September 14, 2014 6:30 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Interesting articlez. Submitted by Tyler Durden HA! I like that!

The biggest disappointment America shoud hav with Obama iz that he let Wall Street & the big banks get away with crashing the worldz economy. They literally got rewarded for it!

Back in 2008 & 9 there wuz talk uv giving people a break on their morgajez; giving the banks a 'hair cut' on the inflated valuez. Didnt happen.

That woud hav boosted the economy much faster kuz sum uv the money being sucked out uv everybodyz pockets in interest woud be available to buy all the real stuff people had been putting off.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Sunday, September 14, 2014 6:36 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If I had a crap-ton of time, sure.



I know wut youre saying! Even with no full time job, taking care uv my mom
plus all the regular chorez uv a house take up most uv my time.

But there are a few thingz that can be dun with very little time, sum uv wich I simply cant do myself. If you chanje your mind, just email me frum the website.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Tuesday, September 16, 2014 7:14 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


bumpity, for review.

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Sunday, September 21, 2014 3:28 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Idea #1 for the human race: LESS REPRODUCTION!

The self proclaimed 'rite to life' groups are idiots. They are setting the world up for a horrible end by starvation. Most uv them are Christian based, just frum 1 stupid line in the bible - "go forth and multiply". I think whoever rote that woud find the number 1,000,000,000 inconseivable.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Sunday, September 21, 2014 10:47 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The highest birth rates occur in nations of various religions, but the most giant clusterfucks are in India (Hindu), Pakistan (Muslim), and across the continent of Africa as a whole (various religions). It seems to have more to do with the type of economy (agrarian) and the subservience and powerlessness of women than with specific religions.

But I agree with you in that overpopulation is the #1 threat to humans. Foolish humans, indeed.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, September 21, 2014 11:08 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Youre rite. I gess it duznt hav much to do with relijun, or any opinionz on 'rite to life'. Its just gonad gided misslez doing their thing without thinking about the consequensez.

Most uv the idiots on Springer and the other day time trash TV showz hav kidz. We are about haf way to Idiocracy bekuming reality.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Tuesday, September 23, 2014 7:35 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Youre rite. I gess it duznt hav much to do with relijun, or any opinionz on 'rite to life'. Its just gonad gided misslez doing their thing without thinking about the consequensez.

Most uv the idiots on Springer and the other day time trash TV showz hav kidz. We are about haf way to Idiocracy bekuming reality.



I have long thought that many American teen mothers are a result of apartments not allowing pets. These kids just want something which depends upon them for sustenance, life. No pet, tho. But kids are allowed. Lets get some of that.

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Tuesday, September 23, 2014 7:39 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Absolutely.

Hubby has taken to comparing human intelligence to termites. When I see a cluster of skyscrapers, I can't help but agree.

However, the REAL driver of our success is our ability to teach and learn, via complex language. That allows a chain of thought to continue and develop through generations.


Written communication is more pertinent that teach/learn. Then the chain of thought can not only skip generations, but also entire civilizations. The re-education of communist Russians was not as successful as the kernels of ideas which survived for decades DESPITE the Teaching/Learning of the communists/socialists.

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Wednesday, September 24, 2014 4:14 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


No pets allowed = kidz. Interesting theory.

That maternal instinct needz to be satisfied. Makes sens.

Herez the prof who sez sumthing about riting being the foundaation uv civilization: http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~jsearle/

And sumthing he sed about it: http://www.childrenofthecode.org/library/refs/effectwritinglanguage.ht
m


----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Wednesday, September 24, 2014 6:18 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
No pets allowed = kidz. Interesting theory.

That maternal instinct needz to be satisfied. Makes sens.


Keep in mind that is very simplified - but you seem to have the essence. I have not and would not call it "maternal" instinct, because even boys and men enjoy dogs, horses, other pets indoors like snakes, gerbils, parrots, etc.
The Poor - which includes many minority children (having nothing to do with their race, just their financial circumstances) - are the group most affected by these "apartment conditions and restrictions" I referenced.
Quote:


Herez the prof who sez sumthing about riting being the foundaation uv civilization: http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~jsearle/

And sumthing he sed about it: http://www.childrenofthecode.org/library/refs/effectwritinglanguage.ht
m



Are you agreeing with me? Or are you trying to claim these linkys support your "teach/learn" requirement?

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Wednesday, September 24, 2014 11:15 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I'm agreeing with you.

I dont recall how long ago that started to occur to me, but reading that put it into focus.

Without riting, whoever iz in charj now gets to tell everybody wut he wants them to believ. Complex stuff gets oversimplified. Teknolojy can be forgotten.

With riting, it can all potentially be recovered.



----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Thursday, September 25, 2014 6:40 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Without riting, whoever iz in charj now gets to tell everybody wut he wants them to believ. Complex stuff gets oversimplified. Teknolojy can be forgotten.

With riting, it can all potentially be recovered.


Pertinent point.
A few days after 9/11 I got in the mail a magazine I had a subscription to. It had "news" bits from around June or July of 2001. One quip was making fun of folks in Iraq - they were dying from television sets falling on them when the TVs were thrown out of the windows, all around Iraq. The reason was the Imams had required all of the followers to get rid of the TVs.
We knew afterwards that this was so the Imams would have complete control of news content delivered to their flocks, no actual news feeds would be allowed so they could see what they had actually done on 9/11, so they would only be dancing in the streets based upon what their Islamofascist leaders told them, without outside information or reference.
Since they had a literacy rate of about 2-3% before this, chucking the TVs was a master stroke of information control and filtering for the Islamofascists.

Your comment reminded me of this.


Are you aware of how the Maps of Atlantis survived Civilizations? Millenia? The proof Earth was not flat?

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Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:49 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


No. Never heard uv Atlantis maps az a real thing. Flat earth wuz not a global delusion in the dark ajez.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Tuesday, September 30, 2014 7:32 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
No. Never heard uv Atlantis maps az a real thing.


You mean you did not know that there existed any maps of Atlantis? Any descriptions of maps of Atlantis?
hmmm.
Do you know the meaning of "Atlantic"? How about the name of the second Ocean?
Do you know why the U.S. Navy in 1950s unwittingly produced a map which geographically and topographically updated the previous map of Atlantis?
Quote:



Flat earth wuz not a global delusion in the dark ajez.


Not sure I understand your syntax.
Are you saying during the Dark Ages Earth was known to be spherical, or curved, or round, or arced, or not flat? Which society or segment of society believed this?
Or are you saying something else?

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Tuesday, September 30, 2014 8:57 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Thats very interesting! Giv us sum links!

If I hav my history reazonably clear, in the middle ajez, the European countriez including England under the influens uv the Catholic Church 'forgot' wut had been common knowlej for thouzandz uv yirz. The ancient Greeks had even determined the diameter uv the Earth with great accuracy. China, and I think the American civilizationz didnt forget.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:17 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Go to wikipedia. There is a map there. It's old but fictional of course.

Quote:

Atlantis (Ancient Greek: ?t?a?t?? ??s??, "island of Atlas") is the name of a fictional island mentioned within an allegory on the hubris of nations in Plato's works Timaeus and Critias, where it represents the antagonist naval power that besieges "Ancient Athens", the pseudo-historic embodiment of Plato's ideal state (see The Republic). In the story, Athens was able to repel the Atlantean attack, unlike any other nation of the (western) known world,[1] supposedly giving testament to the superiority of Plato's concept of a state.[2][3] At the end of the story, Atlantis eventually falls out of favor with the gods and famously submerges into the Atlantic Ocean.


Atlantis is an allegory

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Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:22 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Teen pregnancy. A mix of possible causes.

Ignorence about sexual activity and contraception and/or lack of access to contraception.

A semse of powerlessness in the world. Reproduction is still free and available to anyone of basic functioning parts. "Look I created a human"

A lack of care about oneself and ones future.

Risk taking and sexual behavioour that is quite normal in adolescents.

A cultural dependance upon welfare.

Sometimes it's just an accident. Not any particular meaning need to be attributed to it.

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Wednesday, October 1, 2014 7:32 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Thats very interesting! Giv us sum links!

If I hav my history reazonably clear, in the middle ajez, the European countriez including England under the influens uv the Catholic Church 'forgot' wut had been common knowlej for thouzandz uv yirz. The ancient Greeks had even determined the diameter uv the Earth with great accuracy. China, and I think the American civilizationz didnt forget.


If you are correct, that is an excellent example.
Thanks.

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Wednesday, October 1, 2014 7:35 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Teen pregnancy. A mix of possible causes.

Ignorence about sexual activity and contraception and/or lack of access to contraception.

A semse of powerlessness in the world. Reproduction is still free and available to anyone of basic functioning parts. "Look I created a human"

A lack of care about oneself and ones future.

Risk taking and sexual behavioour that is quite normal in adolescents.

A cultural dependance upon welfare.

Sometimes it's just an accident. Not any particular meaning need to be attributed to it.


Wow! I was wondering if you were in the right thread, and finally noticed that this thread actually did include this topic. Scrambling my brain.

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Thursday, October 2, 2014 5:42 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Thats very interesting!


See if you can figure something out. Answer any or all of the following questions.

1. Name the second Ocean discovered/named.
2. What was the name of the water surrounding the Earth when it was known to be flat?
3. What is the name of the water which was surrounding Atlantis, according to all maps?

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Thursday, October 2, 2014 6:34 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Thats very interesting! Giv us sum links!

If I hav my history reazonably clear, in the middle ajez, the European countriez including England under the influens uv the Catholic Church 'forgot' wut had been common knowlej for thouzandz uv yirz. The ancient Greeks had even determined the diameter uv the Earth with great accuracy. China, and I think the American civilizationz didnt forget.


These 2 paragraphs actually tie together a bit.
MD mentioned wiki, but missed the pertinent parts and dismissed it all as fiction. One thing, Plato reported that Atlantis anecdote was from about 9,000 BC, which is far more accurate than I had recalled references being. Another, also mentioned in wiki, is that in Plato's time, the world consisted of Yurp, North Africa, and Western Asia.

If you are truly interested in this, always remember that the most important evidence you should consider, explain, dismiss, whatever is the Piri-Reis Map.
http://www.lost-civilizations.net/possible-physical-evidence-atlantis.
html


Other references you might try, I don't know if they will be highly useful, but here goes:

ISBN 0-440-50898-3 The Atlantis Blueprint: Unlocking the Ancient Mysteries of a Long-Lost Civilization.

Earth's Shifting Crust: A Key to Some Basic Problems of Earth Science.


Now, other questions for you to consider:
Of all the world's major religions, how many include the story, or similar, of Noah? Including 40 days and 40 nights of "rain" or deluge?

What is the meaning, or derivation of the name "Mediterranean" and any other name, or phrase, that it goes by?

What are the greatest harbors from the oceans ravaging amok, worldwide?

Where is Magnetic North Pole? Where was Magnetic North Pole 12,000 or 14,000 years ago?

Have you read of the discoveries of Pyramids on Antarctica?

I have not yet found a link to one of the ancient maps of Atlantis, nor can I find a description, but if you find the following description or drawing, that is what I'm looking for: "Atlantis is a body of land, completely surrounded by water, which is then also completely surrounded by a ring of land, with 5 fingers of land pointing mostly toward Atlantis, and that ring of land is then also completely surrounded by water."


Let me know what you think of those. If you want to start another thread, and copy a bunch of this stuff over to it, that would be fine with me.

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Thursday, October 2, 2014 8:54 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
See if you can figure something out. Answer any or all of the following questions.

1. Name the second Ocean discovered/named.



Indian Ocean? I dont know. I'v never taken the time to really study history in general.

Quote:

2. What was the name of the water surrounding the Earth when it was known to be flat?


No idea.

Quote:

3. What is the name of the water which was surrounding Atlantis, according to all maps?


Seemz it woud haf to be Atlantic.

Therez are huje problemz with us laymen trying to unravel the massiv mixture uv fiction, lejend, rumor, and fact surrounding Atlantis.

1. Woo authorz. They are basicly scammerz cashing in on the public's fasination with Atlantis. Slap together a book chock full uv the most sensational claimz they can find. Think up a provocativ a title to paste over the cover 'fotograf'. Get sum suppozed sientist to rite the back cover description. CHA-CHING! NY Timez top 100 best seller list.

You coud spend a yir trying to verify/debunk everything in it. Any golden nuggets uv fact get lost in the noize.

2. Recordz get progressively worse the further back you go. Even real historianz can only get so far back befor they are taking gessez.

3. Cover ups. History iz ritten by the victor, or at least the survivor. {s}Coud there be sumthing that thoze in power at various periodz in history needed to keep hidden?{/s} Why haznt anybody invented the sarcazm text modifier to go along with bold, italic and underline? You may know wut wuz dun about UFOz over the 2nd haf uv the last century. A. Imajin the same fundamental motivationz extended over thouzandz uv yirz. B. Amplify that by the isolated nature uv info prior to printing. C. The sheeple being fooled really were closer to sheep than we are today.

Wun uv the best thingz you can do to keep your brain in order iz to realize that we are very dependent on specialists for our information. Unless you want to dedicate your life to a subject, you will need to trust sumwun who haz. That meanz if you hav a serious interest in knowing 'the truth' you hav to properly vet your expert soursez.

Too many people dont do that. They just believ wut they WANT to believ and lissen to anybody who iz supporting that.



----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Friday, October 3, 2014 7:03 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Have you looked at the Piri-Reis map? Can you explain it?
I did not pick random books. I don't think those were best-sellers. You should consider that not all books are junk.
Titanic was a bestseller, and it was junk, chock full of fabrication, knowingly so. The facts and truth were known, but discarded as inconvenient.

Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
See if you can figure something out. Answer any or all of the following questions.

1. Name the second Ocean discovered/named.



Indian Ocean? I dont know. I'v never taken the time to really study history in general.


Pacific. Prior to the naming of the "new" ocean on the other side of the New World, all the open water of the world was Atlantic.
Quote:


Quote:

2. What was the name of the water surrounding the Earth when it was known to be flat?


No idea.


Atlantic. All maps showed that all open water (not Seas or Lakes) was Atlantic.
Quote:


Quote:

3. What is the name of the water which was surrounding Atlantis, according to all maps?


Seemz it woud haf to be Atlantic.


Atlantic. The Atlantean word for Ocean was Atlantic. Atlantic Ocean was redundant. Many since then, wearing current-day blinders (meaning current as of their lives and times) have assumed that these maps mean that Atlantis was located in the modern day Atlantic Ocean (between the Americas and Yurp/Africa). Their references are backwards - Atlantic was named for the Atlantis which it surrounded. All these maps were derived from the ancient maps of Atlantis, which showed all the continents in great detail and accuracy.
Quote:



Therez are huje problemz with us laymen trying to unravel the massiv mixture uv fiction, lejend, rumor, and fact surrounding Atlantis.

1. Woo authorz. They are basicly scammerz cashing in on the public's fasination with Atlantis. Slap together a book chock full uv the most sensational claimz they can find. Think up a provocativ a title to paste over the cover 'fotograf'. Get sum suppozed sientist to rite the back cover description. CHA-CHING! NY Timez top 100 best seller list.


I didn't hink bestseller lists were around in 1513, the time of the transcription and copying of the Piri-Reis Map, showing lands and waters which were not "known" to exist.
I never thought of Albert Einstein as a scammer before. On second thought, I still don't, although I still wish he had solved the curve formula.
Quote:


You coud spend a yir trying to verify/debunk everything in it. Any golden nuggets uv fact get lost in the noize.

2. Recordz get progressively worse the further back you go. Even real historianz can only get so far back befor they are taking gessez.

3. Cover ups. History iz ritten by the victor, or at least the survivor. {s}Coud there be sumthing that thoze in power at various periodz in history needed to keep hidden?{/s} Why haznt anybody invented the sarcazm text modifier to go along with bold, italic and underline? You may know wut wuz dun about UFOz over the 2nd haf uv the last century. A. Imajin the same fundamental motivationz extended over thouzandz uv yirz. B. Amplify that by the isolated nature uv info prior to printing. C. The sheeple being fooled really were closer to sheep than we are today.

Wun uv the best thingz you can do to keep your brain in order iz to realize that we are very dependent on specialists for our information. Unless you want to dedicate your life to a subject, you will need to trust sumwun who haz. That meanz if you hav a serious interest in knowing 'the truth' you hav to properly vet your expert soursez.

Too many people dont do that. They just believ wut they WANT to believ and lissen to anybody who iz supporting that.


I listen to facts, evidence, reality. I don't consider the geological record to lie, normally.
When you have erased the geological record and fabricated evidence to support whatever you want to believe, then I'll try to delete all knowledge from my mind and follow your preachings.

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