Accident or Not? Malaysian Airliner shot down. by chrisisall

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Accident or Not? Malaysian Airliner shot down.

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Thursday, February 9, 2023 09:43
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VIEWED: 23419
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Sunday, July 27, 2014 10:54 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Sniggy The Piggy and her significant other

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Sunday, July 27, 2014 11:01 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

JONGGSTRAW

Thanks for the bump! (And, for posting like an ass, again.)

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Sunday, July 27, 2014 11:06 AM

JONGSSTRAW

7 pages of Sniggy The Idiot arguing up is down and hot is cold. Biggest, dumbest, most egotistical libtard clusterfuck EVER!

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Thursday, June 20, 2019 7:04 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

International prosecutors announced murder charges Wednesday against four men — three of them Russians with military or intelligence backgrounds — in the missile attack that blew a Malaysia Airlines jet out of the sky over Ukraine five years ago, killing all 298 people aboard.

The case, built with the help of wiretaps, radar images and social media posts, marks the most significant step yet toward tying the tragedy to Moscow, which has backed the pro-Russian separatists fighting to seize control of eastern Ukraine.

In announcing the charges, prosecutors appealed for witnesses to help lead them even further up the chain of command in President Vladimir Putin’s Russia.

Investigators “want to go as far as we can get” because “it’s important to know who can be held responsible for this absolute tragedy,” top Dutch prosecutor Fred Westerbeke said.

More at www.apnews.com/a753d8630f6a46e7872b454ccc0b53ab

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, June 20, 2019 7:16 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Silene Fredriksz-Hoogzand, of the Dutch city of Rotterdam, whose son Bryce was among the dead, expressed relief.

She said she holds Putin responsible for the attack, because: “He made this possible. He created the situation.” As for Russia’s lack of cooperation, she said, “I think it’s disgusting. They deny everything, they don’t cooperate. Nothing.”

More at www.apnews.com/a753d8630f6a46e7872b454ccc0b53ab

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, June 20, 2019 7:58 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

RUSSSSSSSSIIIIIIAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:08 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
RUSSSSSSSSIIIIIIAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Associated Press reporters spotted a Russian Buk, an unusually big and sophisticated type of anti-aircraft weapon, in the Ukrainian town of Snizhne just hours before the jetliner was shot down, raining debris and bodies down onto farms and sunflower fields.

The Russian Buk was used in the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. Evidence included missile fragments found on site including pieces of warhead stuck in the wreckage as well as non-explosive parts of the missile with serial number remnants. Missile fragments were recovered from the bodies of the flight crew.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system

The investigation team said that even if the four defendants may not have actually pushed the button to launch the missile, they had a role in the preparations.

One of those charged was Russian citizen Igor Girkin, a retired colonel in Russia’s main intelligence agency, the FSB. He led Russian and separatist forces in Ukraine’s Donetsk region in 2014.

The three others charged are Russian citizens Sergey Dubinskiy, identified as a former employee of Russia’s military intelligence service, and Oleg Pulatov, described as a former soldier in military intelligence; and Leonid Kharchenko, a Ukrainian citizen who led a combat unit in the Donetsk.

Girkin led a group of Russian men who crossed into Ukraine and occupied the town of Slovyansk, which became the site of major fighting. He wrote on his social media account around the time of the jetliner attack that the rebels had shot down a Ukrainian military plane in the area where the Malaysian aircraft went down. He later deleted that post. I wonder why?

www.apnews.com/a753d8630f6a46e7872b454ccc0b53ab

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, June 20, 2019 9:40 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
7 pages of Sniggy The Idiot arguing up is down and hot is cold. Biggest, dumbest, most egotistical libtard clusterfuck EVER!

Some things never change!

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Saturday, June 22, 2019 8:46 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Some things never change!

The story is always changing: Putin said, according the Kremlin transcript, “We think there is no evidence at all there. Everything that was presented does not prove anything. We have our own version and we have submitted it, but regrettably nobody wants to listen to us.” Putin’s claim about Moscow’s own versions have been debunked:

1) “MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian jet.”

2) “It was blown up by a missile intended for the Russian President’s plane.”

3) “It was already full of dead bodies and deliberately crashed.”

4) “It was shot down by a BUK missile but not one of Russia’s.”

Story 4) is Russia's best yet, but Russia has the wrong ownership details:

“After the BUK missile had been fired, the BUK-TELAR (vehicle) initially drove off under its own power,” the JIT reported. “A short time later it was reloaded onto the Volvo truck and transported back to the Russian border. During the night, the convoy crossed the border into the territory of the Russian Federation.” Dutch police noted at that time: "All the vehicles in a convoy carrying the missile were part of the Russian armed forces.”

www.polygraph.info/a/fact-check-putin-mh17-evidence-responsibility/300
12998.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, June 22, 2019 10:00 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

You would think that Malaysia would have the greatest interest is assigning responsibility for the downing of the airplane, since it was their airplane that was fired on and dozens of Malaysians were killed.

And yet Malaysia has never been an equal partner in the investigation, has never been given the evidence, and Ukraine ... which was significantly conflicted in this event, should have never been allowed as one of the investigating bodies.

As recently as June 20, 2019, the PM of Malaysia has complained about the lack of transparency of the investigation.

Now, as far as what I have been actually posting ... as opposed to what people SAY I've been posting ... I've only been calling for EVIDENCE to be weighed before reaching a conclusion. Look back at my posts, you will NOT find me saying that Russia didn't do this, only saying that people should wait for EVIDENCE to be collected b4 reaching a conclusion.

It is the fucking Achilles heel of almost everyone here .. from RAPPY and JONGSSTRAW to REAVERBOT and TWITCHY and SECONDRATE... that people cannot withhold judgment until they see EVIDENCE.

I don't know what's wrong with you people. Any time someone is accused of something, you JUMP! Smollett accuses a hate crime. The deep state accuses of Russia of hacking. GWB accuses Iraq of WMD. Obama accuses Assad of "gassing his own people". The deep state accuses Trump of collusion* with Russia.

Seriously, folks? Are you THAT stupid?

What kind of EVIDENCE can be collected from a plane shoot-down? (Yanno,like how the USA shot down an Iranian passanger jet in 1988 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 )

Debris field
Radar tracking
Satellite pictures
Metal fracture analysis
Trace metal analysis of penetrations
Eyewitness accounts (least reliable)
Communications intercepts
Now ... social media (but as White Helmets demonstates, can be fabricated)
In this case ... shrapnel fragments

When your emotions are highest, dial them down.

I have had to anlayze reports, MANY reports, generatedby other entities. I know I shocked the refinery industry when, after evaluating a giant table of data, I told them that there were three labs involved and that one of the labs screwed up an analysis (and that I could tell them how). That isn't the only time I put my finger on some fundamental flaw.

The data will speak to you, but only if you listen. And only if you listen with a quiet mind and know what to listen for. If your mind is roiled with emotion ... if you're busy parsing the information based on what you want to hear ... you'll never discover the truth.

I think I know what happened with MH17, but it's not based on what I want to hear, or am afraid to hear. I think I know about Iraq, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Yemen, Israel, Saudi Arabia .... China, Russia ... Russiagate ....

Do you?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Saturday, June 22, 2019 4:07 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You would think that Malaysia would have the greatest interest is assigning responsibility for the downing of the airplane, since it was their airplane that was fired on and dozens of Malaysians were killed.

And yet Malaysia has never been an equal partner in the investigation, has never been given the evidence, and Ukraine ... which was significantly conflicted in this event, should have never been allowed as one of the investigating bodies.

As recently as June 20, 2019, the PM of Malaysia has complained about the lack of transparency of the investigation.

Now, as far as what I have been actually posting ... as opposed to what people SAY I've been posting ... I've only been calling for EVIDENCE to be weighed before reaching a conclusion. Look back at my posts, you will NOT find me saying that Russia didn't do this, only saying that people should wait for EVIDENCE to be collected b4 reaching a conclusion.

It is the fucking Achilles heel of almost everyone here .. from RAPPY and JONGSSTRAW to REAVERBOT and TWITCHY and SECONDRATE... that people cannot withhold judgment until they see EVIDENCE.

I don't know what's wrong with you people. Any time someone is accused of something, you JUMP! Smollett accuses a hate crime. The deep state accuses of Russia of hacking. GWB accuses Iraq of WMD. Obama accuses Assad of "gassing his own people". The deep state accuses Trump of collusion* with Russia.

Seriously, folks? Are you THAT stupid?

What kind of EVIDENCE can be collected from a plane shoot-down? (Yanno,like how the USA shot down an Iranian passanger jet in 1988 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 )

Debris field
Radar tracking
Satellite pictures
Metal fracture analysis
Trace metal analysis of penetrations
Eyewitness accounts (least reliable)
Communications intercepts
Now ... social media (but as White Helmets demonstates, can be fabricated)
In this case ... shrapnel fragments

When your emotions are highest, dial them down.

I have had to anlayze reports, MANY reports, generatedby other entities. I know I shocked the refinery industry when, after evaluating a giant table of data, I told them that there were three labs involved and that one of the labs screwed up an analysis (and that I could tell them how). That isn't the only time I put my finger on some fundamental flaw.

The data will speak to you, but only if you listen. And only if you listen with a quiet mind and know what to listen for. If your mind is roiled with emotion ... if you're busy parsing the information based on what you want to hear ... you'll never discover the truth.

I think I know what happened with MH17, but it's not based on what I want to hear, or am afraid to hear. I think I know about Iraq, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Yemen, Israel, Saudi Arabia .... China, Russia ... Russiagate ....

Do you?

Interesting. I don't recall hearing extensively that Malaysia has been prohibited from participating in the investigation process.

I wonder how far flight routes would need to be distorted to be able to fly around Ukraine. I don't recall - was Ukraine stated to be a War Zone, a Combat Theater at the time?

I'm wondering how much authority the UN or NATO or anybody else had it trying to insert objective investigation into this site.

Most of my experience with commercial aircraft and crashes are from America or it's allies. I must believe the assistance of NTSB was offered, but would not be surprised if it was declined.

Edit: Sorry, reviewing the OP page shows that it was a War Zone, and it was a Boeing 777. From Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

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Saturday, June 22, 2019 4:36 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
A history buff who has zero recollection of America shooting down an airliner full of civilians?

Huh.

My guess is that if a Democrat were president when it happened, you'd still be crying about it. But for some amazing reason, you can't remember it at all now. That selective memory must be very convenient for you.
And still, no citation of any sort where the US KNOWINGLY shot down a civilian airliner.

Color me not surprised, at all.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Knew of that, but that doesn't fit the criteria.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
And, for Rappy to find a way to dismiss:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

(and btw, NO, it was not 'knowingly' shot down as a plane full of civiees, but then I'm guessing this new Malaysian one wasn't either)

Not sure if I commented on this, but refusing to respond to emergency inquiries(x10, 3 of which where on their Civilian frequency), taking off from an attacking and hostile Military base with a low altitude path from a Nation (Iran) which is actively attacking Warships, that is suicidal.
An aircraft in such an attack profile and refusing to identify itself during combat hostilities is NOT a "known civilian" passenger plane.

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Thursday, February 9, 2023 9:40 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Prosecutors: Putin played active role in shooting down flight MH17 | DW News

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, February 9, 2023 9:43 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

International investigators said Wednesday there were "strong indications" that Russian President Vladimir Putin personally approved the supply of the missile that shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over Ukraine in 2014.

But the team said they were halting their probe into the disaster since there was not enough evidence to prosecute more suspects and Putin has immunity as head of state in any case.

All 298 people on board were killed when a Russian-made missile slammed into the plane traveling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, sending it crashing to earth in separatist-held eastern Ukraine.

"There are strong indications that a decision was made at presidential level, by President Putin, to supply... the Buk TELAR" missile system, Dutch prosecutor Digna van Boetzelaer said.

"Although we speak of strong indications, the high bar of complete and conclusive evidence is not reached," she told a news conference in The Hague.

The announcement comes less than three months after a Dutch court convicted two Russians and a Ukrainian in absentia over the downing of MH17.

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said the decision was a "bitter disappointment" but that "we will continue to call the Russian Federation to account."

Russia has denied any involvement in the downing of MH17. It slammed last year's court verdict convicting the three men as "scandalous" and politically motivated.
'President's decision'

But the chain of command was clear, said the Joint Investigation Team into the crash of MH17, which comprised the Netherlands, Malaysia, Australia, Belgium and Ukraine.

Russian officials even postponed a decision to send weapons to Ukrainian separatists because Putin was at a D-Day commemoration in France in June 2014, they said.

They played an intercepted telephone call from an adviser saying the delay was "because there is only one who makes a decision…, the person who is currently at a summit in France."

Putin himself could also be heard speaking about a "military component" in another call with a separatist leader from the Luhansk region.

Other officials such as Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu did not have the necessary decision-making power and "this was ultimately the president's decision," they said.

However, with a lack of cooperation from Moscow and a dearth of witnesses willing to come forward, the case has now ground to a halt.

"All leads have now been exhausted, the investigation is therefore being suspended," van Boetzelaer said.

Putin himself was untouchable — for now at least.

More at https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/02/09/strong-indications-putin-app
roved-mh17-missile-supply-probe-a80178

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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