REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Kiev Neo-Nazis shoot and club people escaping from burning building...and INSIDE ... raped, shot, doused with flammables and set on fire. Pictures (WARNING) and proof.

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 09:00
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 6530
PAGE 1 of 2

Tuesday, May 6, 2014 3:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


At times, the linked website (below) posts pictures of grisly or horrific events of political significance, with analysis. To spare some of you the pictures, you need look no further than these words:

Pro-Kiev neo-Nazis shot people as they fell out of the burning building. Those that survived the fall were clubbed.


http://rt.com/news/156664-odessa-fire-radicals-shoot/

In the building: Charred bodies in areas where the building had not been on fire. Some of them doused with chemical extinguisher powder. People partially burned ... heads and hands only. The evidence speaks to the fact that these people were doused with flammable liquid and set on fire, because if you had been in a burning building your feet and legs would be burned too.

People killed with head shots. People killed by having their neck broken. One woman raped then burned, one pregnant woman strangled.

The FB comment from the Governor of Odessa (appointed by Kiev): I support these actions. The response from a Kiev member of Parliament: Job well done!

PICTURES - GRAPHIC WARNING

Charred bodies, but no building fire at that location


Woman's body, dragged, doused with fire extinguisher powder. Man shot through head


Curious pattern of burns... down to the bone on wrists, and head. Feet and legs untouched. Fire extinguisher powder.


Killed (see blood stains) then burned


Raped, then burned


Multiple gunshots to the head


Strangled



Neo-Nazis, celebrating the killings


MORE AT
http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-neo-nazi-thugs-supported-by-kiev-regi
me-killed-odessa-inhabitants-photographic-evidence/5380504


So, when JONGSSTRAW posted
Quote:


Ooh ooh that smell
Can't you smell that smell
The smell that's around you?


http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57955
he slipped into the "sick, delusional, and not even human" category, along with rappy. And MIKER is heading in that direction.

Aintcha, honey?

You betcha!




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Tuesday, May 6, 2014 12:30 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Your tax dollars at work, folks - and without even the pretense of authorizationm, thanks in large part to Obama not wanting to offend the fucking Neocons.

Frankly, whom they have chosen to support in this shows their true colors at last, I call em neo-feudo-FASCISTS for a reason, and it's not hyperbole, it's what they *are*, and have always been from the moment that punkass bitch Hamilton wanted to establish a new aristocracy with himself at the head of it, and party be damned, the real fight is over who gets to hold the leash, with no one but us Anarchists wanting to cut it.

That said, Oligarchy, whether it be here, or there, has but only one future, because no population is infinitely abuseable, and in the end the only legacy it ever leaves is one of misery and horror.

You think it's bad now ?
Just wait till them blackshirt motherfuckers figure out they'll be the first ones thrown under the bus and shipped off to the camps when the elite finally secure their power, cause they're too fucking stupid and gullible to leave laying around for someone else to wind up - then it's REALLY gonna get ugly, cause Russian blackshirt scum are maybe a little smarter than the red white and blue brand - Rappy and his ilk still haven't figured out or admitted what WILL happen to em the very instant they ever get what they *think* they want.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DayOfTheJackboot

-Frem

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 8:19 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


SIGNYM is starting to go the way of Pirate News.

Funny that both sites you linked to ties to one side of this crisis. RT stands for Russia Today, which has Michel Chossudovsky on as commentator all the time. Chossudavsky runs Centre for Research on Globalisation.



I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 9:15 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


WSJ radio said today the fire was started by pro Russian forces. This wasn't FOX, just to reiterate .

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:29 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Your tax dollars at work, folks - and without even the pretense of authorizationm, thanks in large part to Obama not wanting to offend the fucking Neocons.

Frankly, whom they have chosen to support in this shows their true colors at last, I call em neo-feudo-FASCISTS for a reason, and it's not hyperbole, it's what they *are*, and have always been from the moment that punkass bitch Hamilton wanted to establish a new aristocracy with himself at the head of it, and party be damned, the real fight is over who gets to hold the leash, with no one but us Anarchists wanting to cut it.

That said, Oligarchy, whether it be here, or there, has but only one future, because no population is infinitely abuseable, and in the end the only legacy it ever leaves is one of misery and horror.

You think it's bad now ?
Just wait till them blackshirt motherfuckers figure out they'll be the first ones thrown under the bus and shipped off to the camps when the elite finally secure their power, cause they're too fucking stupid and gullible to leave laying around for someone else to wind up - then it's REALLY gonna get ugly, cause Russian blackshirt scum are maybe a little smarter than the red white and blue brand - Rappy and his ilk still haven't figured out or admitted what WILL happen to em the very instant they ever get what they *think* they want.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DayOfTheJackboot

-Frem




Jackboots and truncheons and black shirts on fascists
Bloody brass knuckles and newly drawn death lists
Brown paper mail bombs tied up with strings
These are a few of my favorite things

Drowning kids with ponies and gassing old ladies
Steel hammers and blow torches that send townsfolk to Hades
Goon squads that rape with the moon on their wings
These are a few of my favorite things

When the sun shines
When the birds sing
When I'm feeling sad
I simply remember my favorite things
And then I don't feel so bad

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:44 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity




-Frem

JONGSSTRAW

Jackboots and truncheons and black shirts on fascists
Bloody brass knuckles and newly drawn death lists
Brown paper mail bombs tied up with strings
These are a few of my favorite things

Drowning kids with ponies and gassing old ladies
Steel hammers and blow torches that send townsfolk to Hades
Goon squads that rape with the moon on their wings
These are a few of my favorite things

When the sun shines
When the birds sing
When I'm feeling sad
I simply remember my favorite things
And then I don't feel so bad



I love the humor and wit behind your use of the Julie Andrews song, but I keep seeing this ugly thread revived by those who find It Ludacris. Imagine then a protest no one showed up to watch. It would be over in a minute and would be the better way to go don't ya think?

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


M52
Quote:

SIGNYM is starting to go the way of Pirate News.
When PirateNews posted about something I didn't know about, I looked it up. And he actually posted about quite a few real things, like MKUltra, and pointed to a few other things (like the story about gay prostitute Jeff Gannon/Talon News, who got to do an "overnighter" at the Bush White House.) which still smell fishy even today, but have no good explanation.

The reason why I posted pictures, M52, is that they're undeniable. Unless you want to claim they were retouched. Are you? Claiming thet they're re-touched? If you're not claiming that they've been photoshopped, then what do you have to say about the story that they tell you? Oh, that's right- it might mean you'd have to change your mind about who the "the good guys" are in the fight. And THAT you would never do, no matter what the evidence. So much for rationality!

And, you want a bit of PN? How about THIS?
Quote:

WSJ radio said today the fire was started by pro Russian forces-Rappy.
Once again, rappy jumps on the bandwagon of whatever hobby-horse he's riding this week.
RAPPY- Anybody can say it was started by anybody. Just like the news said that Russian forces were in Ukraine (retracted) and that Federalist Ukrainians were trying to registers Jews (false flag). Where is the evidence? Show me evidence, and I'll consider it.

KPO-
Don't you find it curious that when people were sniped in Kiev it was instantly laid at the feet of Yanukovych by the western press, but now that Yanukovich isn't there to catch the blame, the press is suddenly clueless about where to land it?

JONGSSTRAW has finally revealed itself as the sociopath I always thought. At least a bit of honesty, without the tedious rationalizations.




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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 10:52 AM

JONGSSTRAW





like Sniggy

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:22 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52
Quote:

SIGNYM is starting to go the way of Pirate News.
When PirateNews posted about something I didn't know about, I looked it up. And he actually posted about quite a few real things, like MKUltra, and pointed to a few other things (like the story about gay prostitute Jeff Gannon/Talon News, who got to do an "overnighter" at the Bush White House.) which still smell fishy even today, but have no good explanation.

The reason why I posted pictures, M52, is that they're undeniable. Unless you want to claim they were retouched. Are you? Claiming thet they're re-touched? If you're not claiming that they've been photoshopped, then what do you have to say about the story that they tell you? Oh, that's right- it might mean you'd have to change your mind about who the "the good guys" are in the fight. And THAT you would never do, no matter what the evidence. So much for rationality!

And, you want a bit of PN? How about THIS?
Quote:

WSJ radio said today the fire was started by pro Russian forces-Rappy.
Once again, rappy jumps on the bandwagon of whatever hobby-horse he's riding this week.
RAPPY- Anybody can say it was started by anybody. Just like the news said that Russian forces were in Ukraine (retracted) and that Federalist Ukrainians were trying to registers Jews (false flag). Where is the evidence? Show me evidence, and I'll consider it.

KPO-
Don't you find it curious that when people were sniped in Kiev it was instantly laid at the feet of Yanukovych by the western press, but now that Yanukovich isn't there to catch the blame, the press is suddenly clueless about where to land it?

JONGSSTRAW has finally revealed itself as the sociopath I always thought. At least a bit of honesty, without the tedious rationalizations.



I'm not going to claim the pictures were retouched. They however do not prove what you claim. We know people died in that fire, however how it started and how thos people dies is not proven by those pictures. If it was that clear no one would have have to add arrows and circles and captions to them.

As for good guys in this crisis...I don't see any. I do see a Russian leader looking to take back lad which is feels is rightfully Russia's. Putin at one time claimed there were no Russian troops Crimea, now he is saying there was. Also the real numbers from the vote have come out as well and it was not the landslide that was claimed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/putin-changes-course-admits-russia
n-troops-were-in-crimea-before-vote/2014/04/17/b3300a54-c617-11e3-bf7a-be01a9b69cf1_story.html


http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/05/05/putins-huma
n-rights-council-accidentally-posts-real-crimean-election-results-only-15-voted-for-annexation
/

You also want to say that the West was blaming Yanukovich but forget that the Ukrainian parlement, still with a amjority of Yanukovich's own party, was the one blaming him.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/03/us-ukraine-crisis-killings-i
dUSBREA320QO20140403


Futhermore I will take a report from the Wall Street Journal over that of Russia Today anytime.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 12:02 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Siggy - I jumped on no band wagon. I simply passed along info which I heard 1st hand, as it was reported by the wsj radio show this morning.

I've made NO claim beyond what I've heard. Take it as you like.

* Just askin' that Siggy acknowledge that much, is all *

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 12:06 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Siggy - I jumped on no band wagon. I simply passed along info which I I heard 1st hand, as it was reported by the wsj radio show this morning.

I've made NO claim beyond what I've heard. Take it as you like.



I do not understand anyones attraction to this thread. let it die. It is sick and revolting.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 8:22 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

KPO-
Don't you find it curious that when people were sniped in Kiev it was instantly laid at the feet of Yanukovych by the western press, but now that Yanukovich isn't there to catch the blame, the press is suddenly clueless about where to land it?


I do.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 9:17 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

KPO-
Don't you find it curious that when people were sniped in Kiev it was instantly laid at the feet of Yanukovych by the western press, but now that Yanukovich isn't there to catch the blame, the press is suddenly clueless about where to land it?



This fire was a very sad and tragic incident, and I hope the full truth comes out, and the people to blame on both sides are punished for their actions on this day. But at the end of the day this was two violent mobs facing off, leading to a situation escalating in an unforeseen, unplanned way. It's not equivalent to a government ordering its security services to shoot protesters using SNIPERS, which is almost certainly what happened in Kiev.



It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:17 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I do not understand anyones attraction to this thread. let it die. It is sick and revolting.
Uh... MIKER... has anyone told you lately that YOU'RE sick and revolting?

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:



like Sniggy



Never underestimate the noxiousness of sick fucks, like JONGSSTRAW.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


KPO
Quote:

This fire was a very sad and tragic incident, and I hope the full truth comes out, and the people to blame on both sides are punished for their actions
You assume that there were people on "both sides" to blame. Are you perhaps doing the equivalent of blaming the rape victim? Why don't you try approaching this situation with fewer assumptions.

Quote:

But at the end of the day this was two violent mobs facing off, leading to a situation escalating in an unforeseen, unplanned way.
Except for the fact that killers were either in the Trade Unions building to begin with, or they followed their kettled victims in.

Quote:

It's not equivalent to a government ordering its security services to shoot protesters using SNIPERS, which is almost certainly what happened in Kiev.
You're right. And if that's what happened, then you would surely have a point. But even the Kiev government is backing away from blaming Yanukovch now, as you would have noticed if you didn't have such an idee fixe on this point. But you have SUCH a fixed idea that it's just tragically immovable.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:30 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You all - wouldn't be able to recognize the sun was shining if you went outside on a bright sunny day with your eyes open.

You see OBVIOUS civilian deaths - a grandmotherly looking women without a trace of fire on her, a woman with her crotch open to the world, people with blood trails out of their heads - and say gee, it's not at all clear to me what happened to these people. And it's all the fault of the website for publishing these misleading photos that I can't make heads or tails out of. And it's Signy's fault for posting them.

And you see people celebrating their 'victory' in the building and say - well, who knows which side did this. It must be equally everyone's fault. The dead grandma. The raped woman. The executed men. Or no one's.


You are sick fucks.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:33 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Hey Sniggy, make me some ham n eggs.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:35 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Example #1



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:38 AM

JONGSSTRAW



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Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


What I find so curious is that nobody is except you, me, Frem, and Chris are saying that Jongsstraw is a sick fuck.

KPO, what about you? Your irony and detached cynicism desert you?

M52, what happened to your "reasonableness"?

Yanno, when did it become acceptable to riff on burning bodies and horrific deaths, but unacceptable to bring it to attention?

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:43 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I do have to say ONE thing, tho... JONGSSTRAW is doing a great job bumping this thread!


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Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:45 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Get back to stirring my eggs you fat heffer.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


And another bump!

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:52 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Thanks for a great laugh! Jongs - not exactly the crazy person you want on your side. His foot. Your foot. Somewhere else. You just never know where that gun is gonna aim.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 7:22 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52, what happened to your "reasonableness"?



It is still here. You seem to have taken a side in this and are unable to move from it. Don't you get that you are posting a pro-Russian naritive from pro-Russian websites? Does that seem a litte off to you?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 8:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Hey Sniggy, make me some ham n eggs.



Lol . Reminds me of the anti feminazi protester at The Masters , carrying signs "make me a sandwich !", and " iron my shirts ! ".


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Thursday, May 8, 2014 9:44 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


M52
Quote:

It is still here. You seem to have taken a side in this and are unable to move from it. Don't you get that you are posting a pro-Russian naritive from pro-Russian websites? Does that seem a litte off to you?
Don't you get that I posted actual pictures which tell a real story, and that the person who's taken a side is you? You've been denying evidence which is right in front of your face, while believing (for example) the pro-Kiev narrative that Yanukovych was responsible for the sniping deaths... for which there is no evidence at all. (And to demonstrate how weak that story is, even Kiev is backing away from it.)

The truth is where you find it. Sometimes it's on Al Jazeera, sometimes its on zerohdege, sometimes it's in the western mainstream press, and sometimes it's on RT. By rejecting significant data because of WHERE it comes from, you're really limiting yourself to seeing (and taking) one side, one viewpoint. That's not being reasonable or objective.

You should be applying the same standards of proof, the same standards of morality, no matter who or which "side" you're looking at. That's what rappy consistently fails to do... it's his side, no matter WHICH way the facts point. Correct? So, don't you want to be doing the objective thing, and not the rappy-thing?

When did it become acceptable to riff on burning bodies and horrific deaths, but unacceptable to bring it to attention?

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:57 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Truth is where you find it... Including FOX news?

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:04 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
M52
Quote:

It is still here. You seem to have taken a side in this and are unable to move from it. Don't you get that you are posting a pro-Russian naritive from pro-Russian websites? Does that seem a litte off to you?
Don't you get that I posted actual pictures which tell a real story, and that the person who's taken a side is you? You've been denying evidence which is right in front of your face, while believing (for example) the pro-Kiev narrative that Yanukovych was responsible for the sniping deaths... for which there is no evidence at all. (And to demonstrate how weak that story is, even Kiev is backing away from it.)

The truth is where you find it. Sometimes it's on Al Jazeera, sometimes its on zerohdege, sometimes it's in the western mainstream press, and sometimes it's on RT. By rejecting significant data because of WHERE it comes from, you're really limiting yourself to seeing (and taking) one side, one viewpoint. That's not being reasonable or objective.

You should be applying the same standards of proof, the same standards of morality, no matter who or which "side" you're looking at. That's what rappy consistently fails to do... it's his side, no matter WHICH way the facts point. Correct? So, don't you want to be doing the objective thing, and not the rappy-thing?

When did it become acceptable to riff on burning bodies and horrific deaths, but unacceptable to bring it to attention?



The pictures can tell different stories depending on who is telling them. There was no doubt a fire and those people died. Those pictures tell us that, but they don't tell us a great many of the other things RT and you are claiming they do.

You keep harping on the snipers when there were more deaths during those inital protest than just people who got hit by sniper fire. It is known that the special police force opened fire some with machine guns, that force was commanded by a person close to Yanukovych. They were basicly under his command. So it is not just about the snipers. You say Kiev is backing away from blaming Yanukovych but you post one snipet with no link. I have post article that says Kiev still does hold Yanukovych to blame.

You talk about the truth as if the things you post are without a doubt that. You trust RT which is a pro Russian outlet but will not believe other outlets that do not have such clear ties. Sorry, you are not looking for the truth you are looking for things that support what you want to be the truth.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:29 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by M52NICKERSON:
You talk about the truth as if the things you post are without a doubt that. You trust RT which is a pro Russian outlet but will not believe other outlets that do not have such clear ties. Sorry, you are not looking for the truth you are looking for things that support what you want to be the truth.



I agree. Sig, you've gone over some kind of edge with this issue. Those pictures are horrible, for sure. Somebody did some really bad stuff. You act as if posters who disagree with you at all are denying the crimes, which is disingenuous of you. No one is arguing that crimes weren't committed, or that those crimes were not abominable.

What is highly suspect is how you assume you know who committed the crimes based on a website even you have admitted to be biased. You will not stand for anyone to doubt the biased and unproven conclusion that RT is pushing, which speaks a lot about your own bias.

"Horrible crimes were committed therefore Kiev did it!" is nowhere near sound logic. The pictures do NOT prove anything about who the guilty party is or why they did this.



*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*



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Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:09 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Truth is where you find it... Including FOX news?



Trust but verify!



I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 3:31 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I find so curious is that nobody is except you, me, Frem, and Chris are saying that Jongsstraw is a sick fuck.

KPO, what about you? Your irony and detached cynicism desert you?

M52, what happened to your "reasonableness"?

Yanno, when did it become acceptable to riff on burning bodies and horrific deaths, but unacceptable to bring it to attention?



Her full quote was:

"Ooh ooh that smell
Can't you smell that smell
The smell that's around you?


It's a smell they've proven throughout their history to be able to get used to pretty quickly."

It's pretty dark, but I read it as a criticism of the Ukrainian nation/people, referencing the pro-Nazi atrocities committed there. She's said other anti-Ukrainian remarks previously. I was going to ask her about it.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 3:40 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

You assume that there were people on "both sides" to blame.

The narrative I've heard is that a pro-Russian mob attacked a pro-Ukrainian protest (as we've seen happen elsewhere in the country), and that a number of pro-Ukrainians were shot and killed by the pro-Russian side. The Ukrainians fought back, burnt the pro-Russian camp, and pushed them back into the building that was the pro-Russian HQ. Then both sides threw Molotov cocktails and the building ended up on fire.

Common sense tells me that some of the pro-Ukrainians probably intended to set the building on fire, while the pro-Russians surely didn't. But common sense also tells me that people on the Ukrainian side probably didn't storm into the burning building and rape people.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 5:49 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I find so curious is that nobody is except you, me, Frem, and Chris are saying that Jongsstraw is a sick fuck.

KPO, what about you? Your irony and detached cynicism desert you?

M52, what happened to your "reasonableness"?

Yanno, when did it become acceptable to riff on burning bodies and horrific deaths, but unacceptable to bring it to attention?



Her full quote was:

"Ooh ooh that smell
Can't you smell that smell
The smell that's around you?


It's a smell they've proven throughout their history to be able to get used to pretty quickly."

It's pretty dark, but I read it as a criticism of the Ukrainian nation/people, referencing the pro-Nazi atrocities committed there. She's said other anti-Ukrainian remarks previously. I was going to ask her about it.

It's not personal. It's just war.


Bubble-headed, know-nothing libtards never heard of Lynyrd Skynyrd's classic song "That Smell". Pathetic.

Now focus real hard on the chorus:





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Thursday, May 8, 2014 6:54 PM

OLDENGLANDDRY


A related bump;



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Thursday, May 8, 2014 7:01 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I find so curious is that nobody is except you, me, Frem, and Chris are saying that Jongsstraw is a sick fuck.

KPO, what about you? Your irony and detached cynicism desert you?

M52, what happened to your "reasonableness"?

Yanno, when did it become acceptable to riff on burning bodies and horrific deaths, but unacceptable to bring it to attention?



Her full quote was:

"Ooh ooh that smell
Can't you smell that smell
The smell that's around you?


It's a smell they've proven throughout their history to be able to get used to pretty quickly."

It's pretty dark, but I read it as a criticism of the Ukrainian nation/people, referencing the pro-Nazi atrocities committed there. She's said other anti-Ukrainian remarks previously. I was going to ask her about it.

It's not personal. It's just war.


Bubble-headed, know-nothing libtards never heard of Lynyrd Skynyrd's classic song "That Smell". Pathetic.

Now focus real hard on the chorus:





Before my time, and still pretty dark to quote those lyrics...

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:11 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


G
Do you really think either side is above any of this?
Yet when we look at the atrocities committed we can't at all imagine they belong to the victorious side celebrating at the windows. Because surely they don't care about their comrades.
M52
SIGNYM is starting to go the way of Pirate News.
Funny that both sites you linked to ties to one side of this crisis. RT stands for Russia Today, which has Michel Chossudovsky on as commentator all the time. Chossudavsky runs Centre for Research on Globalisation.
Because when faced with photographs that tell an OBVIOUS story, it's just easier to claim they're uninterpretable and pointless and biased.
rappy
WSJ radio said today the fire was started by pro Russian forces. This wasn't FOX, just to reiterate .
MY source is RIGHT! Because --- it's not FOX!
miker
I love the humor and wit behind your use of the Julie Andrews song, but I keep seeing this ugly thread revived
And have absolutely NOTHING negative to say about the barbarity in the photos. Gaelic shrug - whatcha gonna do?
G
PN also posted pictures with red arrows and lines ... They look the same as these.
Because a dead woman with her crotch exposed and legs spread, and men with blood coming out of their heads, and a dead grandmothers bent backwards over a desk - are just too obscure to figure out.
M52
how thos people dies is not proven by those pictures
see above
G
PN stuff
see above
kpo
this was two violent mobs facing off
Except one was security forces sent by Kiev
M52
you are posting a pro-Russian naritive from pro-Russian websites
Because the photos are completely meaningless, I'll criticize the source.




OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:25 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.






OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:30 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by MIKER:

I love the humor and wit behind your use of the Julie Andrews song,


Thanks. Good to see someone on your side besides Chris who isn't a dim-witted tool.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:37 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Just so we're all clear here, if you're a county is being invaded, by a vastly superior military, and said country ( or what's left of it ) was told to basically give up its military, and the EU will protect you, is it suppose to surprise anyone that some who don't wish to see the rest of said country taken over might use violent means to confront and repel an actual invading force ?


Just musing, hypothetical here.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:38 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

kpo
this was two violent mobs facing off

Kiki
Except one was security forces sent by Kiev


Evidence?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:40 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Except one was security forces sent by Kiev...


And the other was sent by the other side. Duh. How do you ignore that there are two sides, and assume all blame goes one way? Where is the proof? It certainly has not been shown in this thread. FYI: I know little of the truth of this story, right now I'm just judging on what I see posted here. And it's wicked biased.

"Because the photos are completely meaningless, I'll criticize the source."

You are being just as disingenuous as Sig. The photos are absolutely NOT meaningless, but they do nothing to identify the evil fuckers who did the crime. You can't assume a guilty party just because the crime scene photos made you SO VERY UPSET that you should just assume the party you don't like must be guilty, and the extremity of your upset-ness proves it...

I mean, WTF here? How are you otherwise reasonable seeming people claiming that a photo of horribly dead people, with nothing else shown in the photo, a 100% certain ID of the killer? You have shown NOTHING in this thread that actually relates to the killer.

In fact, you fuckers are being 100% just like GWB, who was so horrified by the criminality of 9/11 that he HAD to go after Iraq. It was based on the emotional reaction to the crime, rather than any actual evidence of the guilty party.

Please do explain. If you can.






*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*



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Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:41 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Just so we're all clear here, if you're a county is being invaded, by a vastly superior military, and said country ( or what's left of it ) was told to basically give up its military, and the EU will protect you, is it suppose to surprise anyone that some who don't wish to see the rest of said country taken over might use violent means to confront and repel an actual invading force?.


Not surprising at all.

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Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:17 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"And the other was sent by the other side."

Well Kiev sent 'security' forces into this - admittedly and officially. I think it's a proven fact at this point. Did Russia send forces into this? I haven't seen any indication that they were involved here. It was a bunch of people defending their home turf from the forces of a distant and unwelcome government. If you can show me reasonable information - besides government claims or media reports of rumors - I'll be happy to track it down.

"The photos are absolutely NOT meaningless, but they do nothing to identify the evil fuckers who did the crime."

Please note I made no strong claims about who did what to whom - though I would think that if the winning side did lose their members in the building they would be more attentive to the bodies rather than celebrating at the windows. My issue is that the people here are more concerned about the source, about the 'fringe' element they think it is, about the inscrutability of said photos - and seem to have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING BAD TO SAY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED. That's why I posted short quotes that I think summarize each response. That what I've been repeatedly addressing. A willful blindness that seems to exist because (as I posit) they think it COULD actually belong to 'their' side (pro Kiev and more importantly anti-Russian). And so they do this:

ETA: the video I posted was just a repost of a video already here, that errored-out.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Friday, May 9, 2014 12:26 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

"And the other was sent by the other side."

Well Kiev sent 'security' forces into this - admittedly and officially. I think it's a proven fact at this point.


So no evidence that the violence against the pro-Russians was committed by Kiev's security forces?

You and Signy are just spouting Russian propaganda and rarely backing any of it up.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, May 9, 2014 3:30 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


MAL4-

It might help if you knew a little of what I go thru when I look at the news. I usually try to make my posts much shorter than this, because there is only so much of my time and your patience to go around. But this long detailed post reflects only a LITTLE of the detail that I've gone through.

I have in my inet favorites a couple-dozen news sources that I've collected over the years, which I've bookmarked because they've been very good at exposing various issues or POVs.

The list includes

MSNBC -which I can count on to pretty much spin the Democratic -liberal line
NPR -ditto
BBC
Guardian
Reuters
Counterparties -a Reuters spinoff for financial scandal
RT -for the Russian view
Xinhua - for the Chinese POV
Zerohedge - an ultra-libertarian site contributed to by up to 40 Wall Street traders who all submit under the name of Tyler Durden (Fight Club). And I gotta say, they get the news FAST, and they're pretty catholic about their sources
Global Research- a Canadian site which does in-depth analysis of news events, which is where I got these photos
Statfor- an "analysis" site with ties to intelligence
Al Jazeera- a Qatar-financed website which is always taking digs at Saudi Arabia
Currently, I also have a western-bloc Kiev newspaper and a pro-business site from Caracas.

I take a few minutes almost every morning to scan the headlines, just, yanno, to see who's talking about what. For example, Xinhua barely mentions the Ukraine, which is featured nonstop on RT.

So one of the reasons why I said that there's no evidence for Yanukovych having ordered the sniping in Kiev was because there is some evidence against that idea.

From Business News Europe, which took this discussion from the German paper ARD's investigation ...
Quote:

Who were the snipers that shot and killed the so-called "Heavenly Hundred" on Kyiv's Independence Square, known as Maidan, on February 20? An investigation by Germany's leading broadcaster ARD TV lends weight to the allegations that some section of the Ukrainian opposition was involved...

Fresh doubts surfaced on April 10 when ARD (the BBC of Germany) on its primetime policy special programme "Monitor", produced by the ARD subsidiary station WDR-magazin, aired an in-depth investigation into the shootings, under the title, "Deathshot in Kyiv: who is to blame for the Maidan bloodbath?" The questions raised in their investigation directly contradict the Maidan government's version of events.

... The German team from ARD interviewed a senior member of the investigation team who told Monitor: "My findings disagree with the official position of the [Ukrainian] government and the Prosecutor General."

Monitor went on to play a tapped phone communications among Berkut officers on February 20 just after the shooting started on Maidan that was supplied by a Ukrainian amateur radio expert. The recording suggests the Berkut were taken by surprise when the shooing started. One Berkut officer is heard asking his colleagues: "Who fired there? Our people do not fire on unarmed people." Another says a bit later: "He was shot by someone, but not by us... are there more snipers? And who are they?"

While there is plentiful video footage on YouTube showing snipers in uniform firing on protestors as well as protestors hiding behind wooden shields being gunned down by police automatic weapon's fire, there is also footage that appears to show protestors being killed by shots fired from the Hotel Ukraina, which sits atop the hill at the back of the square and was fully controlled by the opposition on that day.


... one video that shows a person killed by sniper fire who was standing on the terrace that is across the road from the hotel (clearly visible in almost all the footage) and overlooks Maidan; the direction of the shot seems to come from the hotel, while the government forces were at the bottom of the hill with no clear line of fire onto the terrace. When confronted with the claims of shots from the Hotel Ukraina, new Prosecutor General Oleg Machnitzki only told Monitor: "We are investigating this."


http://www.bne.eu/content/snipergate-who-ordered-shootings-kyivs-maida
n


Now, as far as the Trade Unions fire, the Kiev government claims it was started - possibly by accident- by separatist demonstrators in the building. However, there was video (which I didn't link) clearly showing Molotov cocktails being thrown from outside towards the building, a person with yellow/blue armband shooting at survivors and people beating to death the victims who survived the fall.

The pictures of the bodies inside, along with testimony from survivors who said that people in the building were strangled to death, indicate that there were active killers in the building. If those killers were separatists... or Russians, according to the latest blamestorm from Kiev.... they would have to be convinced that these deaths would spark a revolution in Odessa. But, there was no revolution. And there is Putin, letting air out of THAT balloon by recommending that eastern Ukraine delay its Crimea-style referendum. Seems too contradictory to be a real plan, so I'm back to a small goup of neo-Nazis being at the heart of this.

Yanno, MAL4, I've brought a lot of valuable information and analysis to this website- the tie between our government, Bandar "Bush", and al Qaida; the arms smuggling fomr Behghazi to Syria; the (at the time) upcoming financial meltdown; the improbability of Assad launching a chemical attack and the evidence against it; and the foreknowledge that (1) Saddam didn't have WMD and (2) that our invasion was never going to produce a unified, secular, democratic Iraq.

I do this based on detailed research, and discussion with people from all over the world who also bring information to the table. I don't just pore over one website and grab whatever matches some obsession or another.

Give me a little credit, based on my track record, of being a realist and not a fantasist. I haven't had the time to fully explain how I got to my conclusions, and even if I did I very much doubt that you'd read it. But I'm not rappy or PN. I AM, however, telling a story that cuts deeply across the grain of what just about everyone on this website wants to believe. Or, don't give me credit for past insights. Blow off everything I post as being delusional.

KPO-
Quote:

So no evidence that the violence against the pro-Russians was committed by Kiev's security forces?
So now you're putting words in my mouth, again? Is THAT what you do when you can't come up with a better argument? I never said that it was "Kiev's security forces" in or at the Trade Unions building in Odessa. Please learn to read. But there is video evidence, some of which I linked, and a clear timeline made up of various youtube posts.

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Friday, May 9, 2014 6:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Just so we're all clear here, if you're a county is being invaded, by a vastly superior military, and said country ( or what's left of it ) was told to basically give up its military, and the EU will protect you, is it suppose to surprise anyone that some who don't wish to see the rest of said country taken over might use violent means to confront and repel an actual invading force?.


Not surprising at all.



Not absolving any horrific acts that take place, by either side, but what exactly is a country to do here ?

How is one suppose to 'fight fair' when you're country is slowly being annexed ?

I really am asking.

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Friday, May 9, 2014 8:58 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


The findings of the German investigation does cast some doubt on who the shooters in Kiev were working for. That however does not change what the Ukraine Parliment thought or what the in Keiv were demanding.

If it does turn out that a small group of Neo Nazi's did kill protesters during the fire they should be found and punished. That situation is a far cry from it leading back to the current government in Kiev.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, May 9, 2014 11:33 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


In my very first post, I laid the Odessa fire at the feet of Pro-Kiev neo-Nazis, not at the feet of the Kiev security forces. But riddle me this, Batman- If Ukraine's internal security bureaucracies are headed by neo-Nazis (which they are; I posted about that several weeks ago, so I'm not gonna re-post it. Look it up yourself.) what kind of job do you think they will do investigating and prosecuting neo-Nazi groups? And remember that we already have an example of their investigatory zeal- the sniping incident.

There ARE points where the authorities seem to have gotten involved. The police in Odessa protected the separatists, while the firefighters failed to respond to the fire. So two separate local authorities appeared to be sympathizing in two separate directions. At this point Kiev is, of course, investigating the police for their apparent pro-separatist sympathies, but not the firefighters for their failure to respond.

As I said in my post to MAL4, I wade through a lot of information. I post less than 10% of it here, because quite frankly I don't have the time and you wouldn't read it anyway.

And I agree with MAL4 that when events happen which are bound to rile you up, and are made a Big Deal in the press, one has to be especially careful to look in detail and from a lot of sources to find out what's really going on.

So, for example, when everyone (including Obama) was all hot about Assad having gassed his people, I said AT THE TIME* that there would be physical evidence to look at to decide one way or another. Assad would have used a formulation with known stabilizers, and that the shells would be mass-produced, not handfuls of different parts put together. Shortly thereafter, the website that I referenced posted pictures of the child victims, in which SOME of the "dead" are being injected (Why? What kind of injection does a dead body need?) and others of the dead children are seen over and over in different locations mixed with other "victims". Clearly the photos were posed and staged by rebels. Not that it didn't happen, but that the rebels puffed up the 'outrage index' for the photoshoot.

Seymour Hirsch first questions the "intelligence" which blames Assad
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n24/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarin


Now it appears that it was a false flag operation by Turkey.
Quote:

Obama’s change of mind had its origins at Porton Down, the defence laboratory in Wiltshire. British intelligence had obtained a sample of the sarin used in the 21 August attack and analysis demonstrated that the gas used didn’t match the batches known to exist in the Syrian army’s chemical weapons arsenal. The message that the case against Syria wouldn’t hold up was quickly relayed to the US joint chiefs of staff...

Last May, more than ten members of the al-Nusra Front were arrested in southern Turkey with what local police told the press were two kilograms of sarin. In a 130-page indictment the group was accused of attempting to purchase fuses, piping for the construction of mortars, and chemical precursors for sarin. Five of those arrested were freed after a brief detention. The others, including the ringleader, Haytham Qassab, for whom the prosecutor requested a prison sentence of 25 years, were released pending trial....

The American decision to end CIA support of the weapons shipments [FROM LIBYA-Signy] into Syria left Erdogan exposed politically and militarily. ‘One of the issues at that May summit was the fact that Turkey is the only avenue to supply the rebels in Syria,’ the former intelligence official said... the[re was] acute anxiety’ of the Erdogan administration about the rebels’ dwindling prospects. The analysis warned that the Turkish leadership had expressed ‘the need to do something that would precipitate a US military response’.

As intercepts and other data related to the 21 August attacks were gathered, the intelligence community saw evidence to support its suspicions. ‘We now know it was a covert action planned by Erdogan’s people to push Obama over the red line,’ the former intelligence official said. ‘They had to escalate to a gas attack in or near Damascus when the UN inspectors’ – who arrived in Damascus on 18 August to investigate the earlier use of gas – ‘were there. The deal was to do something spectacular



This is an extremely long article - not directly related to Ukraine- but worth the read.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-
line


The point is that I'm old, and I've seen a lot of false narratives from our government, both Democrats and Republicans-

The Gulf of Tonkin incident (false) which got us into Vietnam and the domino theory which kept us there

The claim that Noreiga (Panama) was a major drug runner,

That the island of Grenada was a major geopolitical threat and that the American medical students there were hostages (In reality, they had no idea that anything was "wrong" until American soldiers arrived to "rescue" them),

That Afghanistan was somehow responsible for 9-11 (The perpetrators were almost all Saudi, and got their funding from Saudi Arabia)

That Saddam had WMD and was training terrorists and was involved in 9-11.

That Assad used chemical weapons on his people.
-------------------------------

Americans have been duped so many times, you'd think we'd have learned by now that when it comes to war, the Administration N.E.V.E.R tells the truth. The hx leaves me a little dyspeptic and a whole lot cynical about our government's ability to tell a straight story. In my view, significant facts have been with held from the Ukraine narrative, and nearly everything we've been told about the Ukraine is distorted.

NO, Putin did NOT present Ukraine with an exclusive trade agreement- that was the EU that insisted on it.

YES, there were peaceful pro-western protesters in Maidan. And YES, there were phalanxes of neo-Nazis to push the violence forward.

YES, people were shot by snipers, but NO, it is not clear that Yanukovych ordered it. And it would change the narrative significantly if it was found that the neo-Nazis... currently in government... were involved.

YES, there were "little green men" in Crimea, and YES... the people voted freely and overwhelmingly to secede.

YES, there are real, authentic Russian-speaking Ukrainians who want to secede, most of them have had former military service in places like Chechnya. NO, there do NOT appear to be any Russian regulars in Eastern Ukraine, so all of that noise about Ukraine being "invaded" by Russia seems to be so much hogwash.

YES, I DID predict an authenic civil war in Ukraine, particularly as many of the east and south either feel threatened by Kiev, love Russia more, or are disgusted by the IMF agreement signed by Kiev.

* Once upon a time, we had a contract with one of the DOD's chemical weapons units, and I learned a lot about their manufacture, use and storage.



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