REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Two sides of the ACA

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Monday, February 3, 2014 14:04
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1709
PAGE 1 of 1

Sunday, February 2, 2014 2:06 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


In the same paper.

Quote:

Life after Jan. 1: Kentucky clinic offers early glimpse at realities of health-care law


?Breathitt County, Ky. — The envelopes began arriving in December across eastern Kentucky, one of the sickest and poorest corners of the country.

“Dear member .?.?. We want you to be healthy .?.?.” read the letter to Mary Combs, and with it came a plastic card representing the first insurance she ever had: a Medicaid plan made possible by the nation’s new health-care law, effective Jan. 1.

Nine days into the new year, the 41-year-old call-center worker headed to the health clinic on Highway 15. She saw a doctor about her chronic stomach ulcers, had her blood drawn for tests and collected referrals for all the specialists she had been told she needed but could never afford.

The next week, she saw a neurologist, who found lesions on her brain and prescribed medicine for the cluster headaches, which are also called “suicide headaches” for pain that is far more intense than a migraine and which Combs had been treating with an alcohol-soaked cloth wrapped around her head. She lined up a gynecologist for abnormal uterine bleeding and a hematologist for anemia and an ophthalmologist for an affliction she called “arthritis of the eye,” which was diagnosed on one of the rare occasions she decided to see a specialist, a $250 visit her husband paid for by selling his lawn mower.



More at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/life-after-jan-1-kentucky-clini
c-offers-early-glimpse-at-realities-of-health-care-law/2014/02/01/a25c506a-8ad1-11e3-916e-e01534b1e132_story.html?hpid=z1


And....

Quote:

In rural Georgia, federal health insurance marketplace proves unaffordable to many


If Lee Mullins lived in Pittsburgh, he could buy mid-level health coverage for his family for $940 a month. If he lived in Beverly Hills, he would pay $1,405.

But Mullins, who builds custom swimming pools, lives in southwest Georgia. Here, a similar health plan for his family of four costs $2,654 a month.


This largely agrarian pocket of Georgia, where peanuts and pecans are major crops and hunters bag alligators up to 10 feet long, is one of the most expensive places in the nation to buy health insurance through the new online marketplaces created by the federal health law. The only places with higher premiums are the Colorado mountain resort areas around Aspen and Vail, a high-cost-of-living area unlike Georgia.

“We’re not real happy with the way things are going in our neck of the woods,” said David Hardin, Mullins’s insurance broker.

All the dynamics that drive up health costs have coalesced here in southwestern Georgia, pushing up premiums. Expensive chronic conditions such as obesity and cancer are common among the quarter million people in this region. One hospital system dominates the area, leaving little competition. Only one insurer is offering policies in the online marketplace, and many physicians are not participating, limiting consumer choice.

Until these elements are brought under control, it will be challenging for the Affordable Care Act to fully live up to its name, not just here but in other parts of the country where premiums are high. Other expensive places include rural Nevada, parts of Wisconsin, most of Wyoming, southeastern Mississippi, southwestern Connecticut and Alaska.

In these places, government subsidies are shielding people with low and moderate incomes from the full cost of the premiums. Randy Gray, a flower shop owner in Albany, is paying just $32 a month, with taxpayers picking up the remaining $805.

But for those earning too much to qualify for federal financial help, the premiums can be overwhelming. A 60-year-old making $47,000 in Albany would have to pay a quarter of her income for the least expensive mid-level “silver” policy, the level most consumers are buying.



More at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/in-rural-georgia
-federal-health-insurance-marketplace-proves-unaffordable-to-many/2014/02/01/7a0dd706-8ac6-11e3-916e-e01534b1e132_story.html?hpid=z2



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, February 2, 2014 2:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The problem isn't the ACA. Kentucky expanded Medicaid, Georgia did not. It's a state problem. Maybe you should put the blame where it belongs.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/News/News-Releases/2013/Dec/States-Rej
ecting-Medicaid-Expansion-Costing-Taxpayers.aspx


New State-by-State Analysis: States Rejecting Medicaid Expansion Under the Affordable Care Act Are Costing Their Taxpayers Billions

Commonwealth Fund Study Finds Texas, Florida, Georgia, and Virginia to See Biggest Losses Among States Not Expanding Medicaid

I think we're done here.


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 3, 2014 9:20 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
The problem isn't the ACA. Kentucky expanded Medicaid, Georgia did not. It's a state problem. Maybe you should put the blame where it belongs.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/News/News-Releases/2013/Dec/States-Rej
ecting-Medicaid-Expansion-Costing-Taxpayers.aspx


New State-by-State Analysis: States Rejecting Medicaid Expansion Under the Affordable Care Act Are Costing Their Taxpayers Billions

Commonwealth Fund Study Finds Texas, Florida, Georgia, and Virginia to See Biggest Losses Among States Not Expanding Medicaid

I think we're done here.




Except the story isn't about that. It's about folks who are buying insurance through the exchanges, who don't qualify for subsidies or Medicaid.

Thanks for the red herring.

And back to the ignore list for you.

Bye.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 3, 2014 9:36 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE


Geezer doesnt get it. Or he does get it, and is deliberately shading the truth.

The people who would have otherwise qualified for medicaid, are now forced to buy insurance on their own. This is driving up the total cost of the pool of insured, thereby costing everyone more money.

If those people (at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions) were not part of the risk pool by being already covered, the cost for everyone would be lower.

Just like Chris Christie, (almost) all republican governors feel no compunction against using their constituents misery as a political weapon against their opponents.

In this case, these 20+ governors who refused medicaid would prefer their people pay more for insurance, than allow Obamacare to succeed.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 3, 2014 10:50 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by BlueHandedMenace:
Geezer doesnt get it. Or he does get it, and is deliberately shading the truth.

The people who would have otherwise qualified for medicaid, are now forced to buy insurance on their own. This is driving up the total cost of the pool of insured, thereby costing everyone more money.

If those people (at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions) were not part of the risk pool by being already covered, the cost for everyone would be lower.

Just like Chris Christie, (almost) all republican governors feel no compunction against using their constituents misery as a political weapon against their opponents.

In this case, these 20+ governors who refused medicaid would prefer their people pay more for insurance, than allow Obamacare to succeed.



Not reading the article, I see.

Folks in Pittsburgh, are paying $940 for insurance that folks in South Georgia are paying $2,654 for.

Both states declined to participate in extended Medicaid.

So it's not down to states declining extended Medicaid.

Read the article, and maybe you'll find out the real reason - assuming you actually want to know.

So that's two red herrings so far.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 3, 2014 11:00 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE


OK, so the gist of the article is that a series of macroeconomic conditions have come together in this region and caused health insurance costs to spike.

How are these conditions the fault of the ACA again? Did ACA make people here fat? give them high cancer rates? Cause this one hospital system to drive competition from the marketplace? Obviously the answer is no, and yet...

I dont see one line of text in that article comparing the cost of insurance under the ACA to insurance purchased outside of the ACA marketplace. And yet, your only conclusion is ACA is at fault.

Kinda telling of you, as usual your partisanship is showing.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 3, 2014 11:10 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by BlueHandedMenace:
OK, so the gist of the article is that a series of macroeconomic conditions have come together in this region and caused health insurance costs to spike.

How are these conditions the fault of the ACA again? Did ACA make people here fat? give them high cancer rates? Cause this one hospital system to drive competition from the marketplace? Obviously the answer is no, and yet...

I dont see one line of text in that article comparing the cost of insurance under the ACA to insurance purchased outside of the ACA marketplace. And yet, your only conclusion is ACA is at fault.

Kinda telling of you, as usual your partisanship is showing.



Not my conclusion. I posted both articles without comment.

Take it up with the Washington Post.

They're the ones who said:

Quote:

Until these elements are brought under control, it will be challenging for the Affordable Care Act to fully live up to its name, not just here but in other parts of the country where premiums are high. Other expensive places include rural Nevada, parts of Wisconsin, most of Wyoming, southeastern Mississippi, southwestern Connecticut and Alaska.


Red herring three. Almost enough for a school.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 3, 2014 11:13 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The facts in the second story don't add up, literally. Even at incomes far above the poverty line - I used a family of 4 adults earning a total household income of 75,000 per year ages 52, 51, 22 and 21 the maximum they would have to pay before qualifying for a subsidy is 9.5% of their income. The only break I gave my hypothetical family was they were all non-smokers. which, according to your philosophy is a matter of choice, and the blame for that extra high premium should rest with them.

Here, play around on the website yourself:

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/#state=ga&zip=31701&
amp;locale=Lee&income-type=dollars&income=75000&employer-coverage=0&people=4&alternate-plan-family=individual&adult-count=4&adults
[0][age]=50&adults[0][tobacco]=0&adults[1][age]=52&adults[1][tobacco]=0&adults[2][age]=21&adults[2][tobacco]=0&adults[3][age]=22&adults[3][tobacco]=0&child-count=0&child-tobacco=0

Unless the hypothetical family is making hundreds of thousands of dollars per year - in which case I don't think there should be a lot of hand-wringing over their plight - the numbers - literally - don't add up.


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 3, 2014 11:58 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
The facts in the second story don't add up, literally. Even at incomes far above the poverty line - I used a family of 4 adults earning a total household income of 75,000 per year ages 52, 51, 22 and 21 the maximum they would have to pay before qualifying for a subsidy is 9.5% of their income. The only break I gave my hypothetical family was they were all non-smokers. which, according to your philosophy is a matter of choice, and the blame for that extra high premium should rest with them.

Here, play around on the website yourself:

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/#state=ga&zip=31701&
amp;locale=Lee&income-type=dollars&income=75000&employer-coverage=0&people=4&alternate-plan-family=individual&adult-count=4&adults
[0][age]=50&adults[0][tobacco]=0&adults[1][age]=52&adults[1][tobacco]=0&adults[2][age]=21&adults[2][tobacco]=0&adults[3][age]=22&adults[3][tobacco]=0&child-count=0&child-tobacco=0

Unless the hypothetical family is making hundreds of thousands of dollars per year - in which case I don't think there should be a lot of hand-wringing over their plight - the numbers - literally - don't add up.




Try again.

The family of four, with a 52 year old dad, 51, year old mom, and two kids (all non-smokers) living in Albany, Ga.(Zip 31707)and income of $75,000 pays $22,987 a year ($1,915 a month) with out-of-pocket costs of $12,700. Bump the parent's ages up a few years, and watch the rates go up.

ETA again:
Sorry. I used kids under 20 for the above calculation. if they're 21 and 22, the annual premium is $30,520($2,543 per month).



When I try the 60-year-old woman living in Albany (Zip 31707) making $47,000 per year, it gives me premiums of $12,264 a year for a mid-range Silver plan. That's more than a quarter of her income.

ETA: When I run the same person in Pittsburgh, the annual cost is $4,332.

Red herring #4.






"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 3, 2014 12:06 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


my figures, website result


Household income in 2014:
318% of poverty level
Maximum % of income you have to pay for the premium, if eligible for a subsidy:
9.5%
Health Insurance premium in 2014 (for a silver plan, before tax credit):
$25,536 per year
You could receive a government tax credit subsidy of up to:
$18,411 per year
(which covers 72% of the overall premium)
Amount you pay for the premium:
$7,125 per year
(which equals 9.5% of your household income and covers 28% of the overall premium)
You were saying?

Now even if I bump both theoretical parents up to age 64 (after which they become eligible for Medicare), and one child up to age 44 and the other to 45 (assuming this theoretical couple had their first child at the age of 20), while it bumps up their premiums considerably, the amount they pay out of pocket doesn't increase.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 3, 2014 12:20 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
my figures, website result


Household income in 2014:
318% of poverty level
Maximum % of income you have to pay for the premium, if eligible for a subsidy:
9.5%
Health Insurance premium in 2014 (for a silver plan, before tax credit):
$25,536 per year
You could receive a government tax credit subsidy of up to:
$18,411 per year
(which covers 72% of the overall premium)
Amount you pay for the premium:
$7,125 per year
(which equals 9.5% of your household income and covers 28% of the overall premium)

You were saying?


My goof. Interesting that the calculator let's you show "list number of people in family" as 1 and "Number of adults (21 and older) enrolling in exchange coverage" as 4. Must have been designed by the same folks who did Healthcare.gov.

Then again, set them both at 4 and bump the income up to $95,000.

See what happens.

Also, you didn't mention the figures for a 60 year old woman.


ETA: Should I complain about you editing your post with no note you'd done so?



"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 3, 2014 12:23 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I put those figures in. I was hoping you would be able to click on the link and get the exact same figures I entered to see where the numbers came from. The original website is totally blank.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 3, 2014 12:31 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I put those figures in. I was hoping you would be able to click on the link and get the exact same figures I entered to see where the numbers came from. The original website is totally blank.



What's interesting to me is that for the family of four who are 52, 51, 22, and 21, living in Albany, if their income is $94,200, they are eligible for a $17,337 subsidy. If their income is $94,201, they get no subsidy at all.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 3, 2014 12:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, the numbers don't add up. But Geezer decided to pass along an inaccurate article anyway.

Go figure!


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 3, 2014 2:04 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, the numbers don't add up. But Geezer decided to pass along an inaccurate article anyway.

Go figure!



Actually, the numbers do add up. Try it yourself on the Kaiser subsidy site with:

1. A family of four, with a 52 year old dad, a 51 year old mom, and two kids, 21 and 22. Income of $95,000. Zip code 31707. (Note that they don't mention any ages for the family of four in the article, so these are just the ages Kiki used.)

1. Single woman of 60 with an income of $47,000 also in zip code 31707.

I'm counting this a red herring #5.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Elections; 2024
Thu, March 28, 2024 09:39 - 2070 posts
Salon: NBC's Ronna blunder: A failed attempt to appeal to MAGA voters — except they hate her too
Thu, March 28, 2024 07:04 - 1 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Thu, March 28, 2024 05:27 - 6154 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Thu, March 28, 2024 02:07 - 3408 posts
Russian losses in Ukraine
Wed, March 27, 2024 23:21 - 987 posts
human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Wed, March 27, 2024 15:03 - 824 posts
NBC News: Behind the scenes, Biden has grown angry and anxious about re-election effort
Wed, March 27, 2024 14:58 - 2 posts
BUILD BACK BETTER!
Wed, March 27, 2024 14:45 - 5 posts
RFK Jr. Destroys His Candidacy With VP Pick?
Wed, March 27, 2024 11:59 - 16 posts
Russia says 60 dead, 145 injured in concert hall raid; Islamic State group claims responsibility
Wed, March 27, 2024 10:57 - 49 posts
Ha. Haha! HAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!!
Tue, March 26, 2024 21:26 - 1 posts
You can't take the sky from me, a tribute to Firefly
Tue, March 26, 2024 16:26 - 293 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL