REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

50 years after King, racism lives on

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Friday, November 1, 2013 10:29
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Wednesday, August 28, 2013 5:08 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

By the time he became a parent, Omekongo Dibinga thought he had racism down. He had made a career as a diversity consultant, drawing on his own experiences as a black child who was called names and bullied.

He always imagined he'd save "the birds and the bees of racism" talk with his daughters until they were around 10, old enough to grasp the concept.

That moment came much sooner than expected. One day in 2011, his then 5-year-old daughter Ngolela (pronounced 'go-lay-lah') came home from kindergarten with news that some classmates had called her a monkey. She wasn't hurt, but seemed confused by the nickname.

"It was a strange moment for me," Dibinga remembered. "This is post-Obama. I'm feeling generally good about my prospects as a black man in America, but that comment sent me back."

"Why does this have to be happening now?" he wondered. Dibinga never imagined he'd have to protect his daughters from racist comments so early in life.

Ngolela, who attends a private international school in Washington, wasn't fazed by the remark, he said, partly because she had no idea about the word's history as a racist stereotype for blacks. Chances are, her young classmates also didn't fully understand the power of their words.

As a parent, it was a painful situation to face. "I can protect myself. I put up the necessary shield and barriers to respond to these things," Dibinga said.

"If anything happens to your kid, you want to hug them and hold them and tell them everything's going to be OK. But you can't in these situations," he said. "They're going to happen, whether you're there or not."

Dibinga ultimately tried to take the incident in stride – using it as an opportunity to work with administrators on fostering dialogue about cultural acceptance at the school. "You can become better or bitter," is one of his tried-and-true mantras.

Dibinga and his wife instead focus their efforts on what they can control: building up their daughters' confidence and teaching them to be proud of their Congolese heritage.

It's something they've done for years, prompted by a remark Ngolela made as a toddler. Like many parents, they lovingly called their daughter a princess and were taken aback by her matter-of-fact response that she wasn't one.

It was a wake-up call. At 2, Ngolela couldn't explain why she felt that way, Dibinga said, "but I started looking more closely at the products out there and realized it's all white princesses, nothing else." (This was before "The Princess and the Frog," featuring Disney's first and only black princess, was released in 2009.)

"I started getting frustrated," Dibinga said. He began looking for black dolls and cartoon characters to introduce to his daughter. He and his wife spent weeks reminding their little girl "that she was as beautiful as anyone else."

"If you don't do anything, the roles society puts out for us are reinforced," Dibinga said. "You have to work to build that self-esteem."

Their efforts paid off. Ngolela, now 7, believes she's a princess just like her white friends. Nonetheless, her father acknowledges that she and her 4-year-old sister, Ndeji, will likely face prejudice and ignorant comments over the years.

"It's sad I feel this way, but it's going to be happening for the rest of their lives," Dibinga said. Still, he's optimistic his girls will see progress as they grow older, just as he did growing up. In the meantime, he'll be there to help them confront whatever ignorant comments may come. http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/08/us/everyday-racism/index.html?v
ignette=2&hpt=hp_bn1
]

Omekongo Dibinga's story:
Quote:

“You’re a monkey.” “I can’t play with brown kids.”

If only I was fortunate enough for these to be the only insults I ever heard as a child. If only I had to deal with this instead of white kids wearing KKK masks to school in Boston in 1994 when I ran for class president. If only I had to deal with this instead of seeing my Harvard-PhD recipient mother be thrown in a jail cell because a random white girl told the police my mom tried to sell her drugs and the cop immediately took said white girl’s side (yes, we lost the court case). If only I had to deal with this instead of having police officers drive up to my car, flash the light in to ensure I was black and then pull me over and attempt to convince me that I was drinking even though I’ve never consumed an alcoholic beverage in my life. If only. In reality, the two quotations above are worse than all of the aforementioned experiences because they were said to my toddler daughter 2 years ago when she was 5.

There can’t be anything worse in life than seeing your children experience hardship. By the time I became a parent, I felt like I had dealt with all of my issues of racism. I knew it existed and that it permeated every aspect of American society. I was forced to join the anti-racism movement at a very early age growing up in Boston where my siblings and I were bullied everyday because of our background. Rocks thrown at us. Called all types of names at school. My oldest brother shot in the eye with a metal BB gun. Add this to the fact that between grades 7 & 12, I read one book in school by a black author, which was aptly titled “The Invisible Man.” America didn’t even have to work hard at making feel insignificant. By the time I had my kids though, I felt like I had this racism thing down. That was before my daughter came home and told me what her class[less]mates said to her.

When my daughter came home to tell me that her classmates told her this, it was depressing. I really thought I could shield my girls from issues relating to race until they were at least 7 years old. At that age we could have “the talk” that many black parents hate having with their kids but deem necessary in a world where racism exists. “You have to be two times better than everyone else because people expect less of you,” etc., etc. I was shocked to realize that I actually had to start teaching my daughter to be proud of her heritage at the age of 2 thanks to a little thing we call cartoons.

We didn’t watch much TV with our daughter during her first few years but it is almost impossible to avoid cartoon images when you’re shopping for your kids and they are with you. I remember one day I called my daughter a princess and she said quickly that she wasn’t one. It was easy to figure out why. Every image she saw outside of the house was of a non-black girl as a princess. I couldn’t even find products like pull-ups without these princess images on them. This was years before the movie “The Princess & The Frog.” Before that, not only were the princesses mostly white, their names also suggest that they are the purest girls on the planet. Just think: “Snow White.” “Belle” (“beautiful” in French). “Sleeping Beauty.”

These names plus the images of them hold white girls up as the standard of beauty, even up until this day.
It didn’t take long for my wife & I to build our daughter’s belief that she was a princess too. Within a month or so, she was walking around telling people she was a princess and asking adults if they were kings and queens. It wasn’t that we wanted her to buy into this princess model as some needy woman who always needed to be pampered. It was more about showing her that she can be anything including a princess. When “The Princess & The Frog” movie finally did come out, I’ll never forget seeing my daughter just looking at the pillow set we bought her with Princess Tiana’s image. Though she had believed what we told her, children who watch cartoons have this weird belief that the cartoon images are real and real people on TV are fake. The black princess image on TV meant a lot for us and many other parents who heretofore had to buy “Dora the Explorer” merchandise to have an image as close to brown as possible. That’s just real talk right there.

Living with everyday racism as a father means always being prepared for my 2 daughters to come home with stories like this. Their hair is locked like mine so I have no issues when kids tease them and say “spaghetti hair” because I just tell them to laugh it off or play elsewhere if the kids don’t stop. Calling them a monkey, however, is different from calling them an elephant or a cat because of the racist history of blacks being compared to monkeys and apes in America. For a child to say that to my kids, that child had to learn that from their parents and that’s what is the even scarier—seeing racist behavior be passed down to the next generation.

The author William Cross talks about stages of racialized development. In short, he says that as human beings, we have experiences that take us all across the racial spectrum. For example, I was so happy to be a black man in America when President Obama was elected, but I was brought back down from cloud 9 when I went to do my diversity trainings at the schools I work in and my colleagues were told not to talk about Obama in the trainings because white teachers were still pissed off. As a white person, you may have a high when you see a multicultural rally for unity but then feel low as a white person when you see a racist attack by your neighbor against a non-white person. This is what everyday racism is about in America. Some days we’re up and some days we’re down.

My daughters motivate me to work even harder towards ending racism in America. Even if I cannot do that, my goal in my work as a diversity consultant is to at least give people the tools to analyze their own racist behavior or the behavior of others and be upstanders and not bystanders when they witness it. I don’t have time to dream about racism ending one day. I only have time to do the work and continue on the path set for me by Dr. King, Harriet Tubman, Harry Belafonte, and so many people of all races who fought and fight for peace. I do this work because “deep in my heart, I do believe, we shall overcome some day.” http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1016682



Obviously, according to how Bobby Jindal and Rap think, this little girl's problem was that she calls herself "African-American"; if she'd just stop doing that, there'd be no problem, right? Well, Dibinga should probably have changed his name to "Smith", too, and called his daughter "Sally". THEN there would have been no problem, surely, right?

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Wednesday, August 28, 2013 5:10 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


YES!

And as long as the race hustling industry is still in business, racism is here to stay!

Dream on!

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 28, 2013 6:21 AM

BYTEMITE

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Wednesday, August 28, 2013 9:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Barry's speech a bore. Empty rhetoric laced in w/ extreme,hard core socialist trappings, fit more for a campaign speech than in honoring the late great man, Dr. King.

Michelle looked nice, in her sleeveless black and orange flowered dress.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:16 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Racism has never been more prevalent than in today's society. The rhetoric spewed by the likes of Bill O'Rielly and Limbaugh continue to fan the flames of the ignorant "silent" majority.

That people of color are fat, lazy, stupid and without any redeeming qualities is the catch-phrase of the day. We are all lumped into the "takers" category without so much as a how do you. Imaginer if we were to say that white folk are fat, lazy, stupid people who would steal the gold fillings out of your mouth when you're asleep. And that they worship Hitler and the Devil.

What would you say to that? Hurts doesn't it?


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

By the time he became a parent, Omekongo Dibinga thought he had racism down. He had made a career as a diversity consultant, drawing on his own experiences as a black child who was called names and bullied.

He always imagined he'd save "the birds and the bees of racism" talk with his daughters until they were around 10, old enough to grasp the concept.

That moment came much sooner than expected. One day in 2011, his then 5-year-old daughter Ngolela (pronounced 'go-lay-lah') came home from kindergarten with news that some classmates had called her a monkey. She wasn't hurt, but seemed confused by the nickname.

"It was a strange moment for me," Dibinga remembered. "This is post-Obama. I'm feeling generally good about my prospects as a black man in America, but that comment sent me back."

"Why does this have to be happening now?" he wondered. Dibinga never imagined he'd have to protect his daughters from racist comments so early in life.

Ngolela, who attends a private international school in Washington, wasn't fazed by the remark, he said, partly because she had no idea about the word's history as a racist stereotype for blacks. Chances are, her young classmates also didn't fully understand the power of their words.

As a parent, it was a painful situation to face. "I can protect myself. I put up the necessary shield and barriers to respond to these things," Dibinga said.

"If anything happens to your kid, you want to hug them and hold them and tell them everything's going to be OK. But you can't in these situations," he said. "They're going to happen, whether you're there or not."

Dibinga ultimately tried to take the incident in stride – using it as an opportunity to work with administrators on fostering dialogue about cultural acceptance at the school. "You can become better or bitter," is one of his tried-and-true mantras.

Dibinga and his wife instead focus their efforts on what they can control: building up their daughters' confidence and teaching them to be proud of their Congolese heritage.

It's something they've done for years, prompted by a remark Ngolela made as a toddler. Like many parents, they lovingly called their daughter a princess and were taken aback by her matter-of-fact response that she wasn't one.

It was a wake-up call. At 2, Ngolela couldn't explain why she felt that way, Dibinga said, "but I started looking more closely at the products out there and realized it's all white princesses, nothing else." (This was before "The Princess and the Frog," featuring Disney's first and only black princess, was released in 2009.)

"I started getting frustrated," Dibinga said. He began looking for black dolls and cartoon characters to introduce to his daughter. He and his wife spent weeks reminding their little girl "that she was as beautiful as anyone else."

"If you don't do anything, the roles society puts out for us are reinforced," Dibinga said. "You have to work to build that self-esteem."

Their efforts paid off. Ngolela, now 7, believes she's a princess just like her white friends. Nonetheless, her father acknowledges that she and her 4-year-old sister, Ndeji, will likely face prejudice and ignorant comments over the years.

"It's sad I feel this way, but it's going to be happening for the rest of their lives," Dibinga said. Still, he's optimistic his girls will see progress as they grow older, just as he did growing up. In the meantime, he'll be there to help them confront whatever ignorant comments may come. http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/08/us/everyday-racism/index.html?v
ignette=2&hpt=hp_bn1
]

Omekongo Dibinga's story:
Quote:

“You’re a monkey.” “I can’t play with brown kids.”

If only I was fortunate enough for these to be the only insults I ever heard as a child. If only I had to deal with this instead of white kids wearing KKK masks to school in Boston in 1994 when I ran for class president. If only I had to deal with this instead of seeing my Harvard-PhD recipient mother be thrown in a jail cell because a random white girl told the police my mom tried to sell her drugs and the cop immediately took said white girl’s side (yes, we lost the court case). If only I had to deal with this instead of having police officers drive up to my car, flash the light in to ensure I was black and then pull me over and attempt to convince me that I was drinking even though I’ve never consumed an alcoholic beverage in my life. If only. In reality, the two quotations above are worse than all of the aforementioned experiences because they were said to my toddler daughter 2 years ago when she was 5.

There can’t be anything worse in life than seeing your children experience hardship. By the time I became a parent, I felt like I had dealt with all of my issues of racism. I knew it existed and that it permeated every aspect of American society. I was forced to join the anti-racism movement at a very early age growing up in Boston where my siblings and I were bullied everyday because of our background. Rocks thrown at us. Called all types of names at school. My oldest brother shot in the eye with a metal BB gun. Add this to the fact that between grades 7 & 12, I read one book in school by a black author, which was aptly titled “The Invisible Man.” America didn’t even have to work hard at making feel insignificant. By the time I had my kids though, I felt like I had this racism thing down. That was before my daughter came home and told me what her class[less]mates said to her.

When my daughter came home to tell me that her classmates told her this, it was depressing. I really thought I could shield my girls from issues relating to race until they were at least 7 years old. At that age we could have “the talk” that many black parents hate having with their kids but deem necessary in a world where racism exists. “You have to be two times better than everyone else because people expect less of you,” etc., etc. I was shocked to realize that I actually had to start teaching my daughter to be proud of her heritage at the age of 2 thanks to a little thing we call cartoons.

We didn’t watch much TV with our daughter during her first few years but it is almost impossible to avoid cartoon images when you’re shopping for your kids and they are with you. I remember one day I called my daughter a princess and she said quickly that she wasn’t one. It was easy to figure out why. Every image she saw outside of the house was of a non-black girl as a princess. I couldn’t even find products like pull-ups without these princess images on them. This was years before the movie “The Princess & The Frog.” Before that, not only were the princesses mostly white, their names also suggest that they are the purest girls on the planet. Just think: “Snow White.” “Belle” (“beautiful” in French). “Sleeping Beauty.”

These names plus the images of them hold white girls up as the standard of beauty, even up until this day.
It didn’t take long for my wife & I to build our daughter’s belief that she was a princess too. Within a month or so, she was walking around telling people she was a princess and asking adults if they were kings and queens. It wasn’t that we wanted her to buy into this princess model as some needy woman who always needed to be pampered. It was more about showing her that she can be anything including a princess. When “The Princess & The Frog” movie finally did come out, I’ll never forget seeing my daughter just looking at the pillow set we bought her with Princess Tiana’s image. Though she had believed what we told her, children who watch cartoons have this weird belief that the cartoon images are real and real people on TV are fake. The black princess image on TV meant a lot for us and many other parents who heretofore had to buy “Dora the Explorer” merchandise to have an image as close to brown as possible. That’s just real talk right there.

Living with everyday racism as a father means always being prepared for my 2 daughters to come home with stories like this. Their hair is locked like mine so I have no issues when kids tease them and say “spaghetti hair” because I just tell them to laugh it off or play elsewhere if the kids don’t stop. Calling them a monkey, however, is different from calling them an elephant or a cat because of the racist history of blacks being compared to monkeys and apes in America. For a child to say that to my kids, that child had to learn that from their parents and that’s what is the even scarier—seeing racist behavior be passed down to the next generation.

The author William Cross talks about stages of racialized development. In short, he says that as human beings, we have experiences that take us all across the racial spectrum. For example, I was so happy to be a black man in America when President Obama was elected, but I was brought back down from cloud 9 when I went to do my diversity trainings at the schools I work in and my colleagues were told not to talk about Obama in the trainings because white teachers were still pissed off. As a white person, you may have a high when you see a multicultural rally for unity but then feel low as a white person when you see a racist attack by your neighbor against a non-white person. This is what everyday racism is about in America. Some days we’re up and some days we’re down.

My daughters motivate me to work even harder towards ending racism in America. Even if I cannot do that, my goal in my work as a diversity consultant is to at least give people the tools to analyze their own racist behavior or the behavior of others and be upstanders and not bystanders when they witness it. I don’t have time to dream about racism ending one day. I only have time to do the work and continue on the path set for me by Dr. King, Harriet Tubman, Harry Belafonte, and so many people of all races who fought and fight for peace. I do this work because “deep in my heart, I do believe, we shall overcome some day.” http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1016682



Obviously, according to how Bobby Jindal and Rap think, this little girl's problem was that she calls herself "African-American"; if she'd just stop doing that, there'd be no problem, right? Well, Dibinga should probably have changed his name to "Smith", too, and called his daughter "Sally". THEN there would have been no problem, surely, right?


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Wednesday, August 28, 2013 1:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Quote:


Racism has never been more prevalent than in today's society. The rhetoric spewed by the likes of Bill O'Rielly and Limbaugh continue to fan the flames of the ignorant "silent" majority.



Wrong on both counts. It's been much, much worse, and Limbaugh and O'Reilly spout exactly ZERO racism. But hey, if you have any evidence of said 'rhetoric', please do share.

Quote:



That people of color are fat, lazy, stupid and without any redeeming qualities is the catch-phrase of the day. We are all lumped into the "takers" category without so much as a how do you. Imaginer if we were to say that white folk are fat, lazy, stupid people who would steal the gold fillings out of your mouth when you're asleep. And that they worship Hitler and the Devil.

What would you say to that? Hurts doesn't it?




You mean fat, lazy and stupid like Honey Boo Boo's mama ?

But seriously, I don't know what you're going on about here. It sounds like you're getting 2nd or 3rd hand info on what others are allegedly saying, and then going off on false claims which were never said in the first place.


"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, August 31, 2013 12:50 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Wow, and Rush didn't even move his lips!

Now that's impressive!


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
YES!

And as long as the race hustling industry is still in business, racism is here to stay!

Dream on!

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall


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Saturday, August 31, 2013 12:52 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Rap, you actually complimented the first lady.........................
Turn in your "Rush is my Lover" button, lol

I kill me!


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Barry's speech a bore. Empty rhetoric laced in w/ extreme,hard core socialist trappings, fit more for a campaign speech than in honoring the late great man, Dr. King.

Michelle looked nice, in her sleeveless black and orange flowered dress.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall


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Saturday, August 31, 2013 1:49 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Let's see. How do I answer this.

Every single person in the United States is an immigrant. There that should do it. That anyone one group is considered superior over another is false. The fact that cave men still walk the Earth does not make it right to assume that they are any less important than those of us who actually chew our food and comb our hair before we step out into the world.

If that's not satisfactory. In a few short years, people of color will be the majority in the United States. Now, what do you say to that? Think carefully about your answer. Just think, gone will be the need for Immigration Reform. We don't need no stinking Reform.

It reminds me of a story. There once was this white man, who lived next door to a Hispanic family who had moved into the neighborhood, the Sanchez family. Each day, Mr. White would mumble and grumble to himself, he was not happy that those spics moved in next door. Mr. Sanchez worked for Brooklyn College and the Mrs. worked as a grade school teacher. Mr. White's daughter and Mr. Sanchez's son were the same age, 10, when they moved in. Mr. Sanchez would work on his house just about every weekend, go to church on Sunday, and would scold the children who would make dents in his car parked out on the street.
Yet almost daily, Mr. White would curse and shoot dirty looks at Mr. Sanchez. And even though his son was well behaved, he would constantly admonish him for any thing, including walking on the sidewalk. Yeah, it was like that. One day Mr. Sanchez asked Mr. White to go half and half for a chain link fence on a shared driveway. Mr. White refused. About a year later, Mr. White replaced his chain link fence and it cost him twice as much.
Steven, Mr. Sanchez's son, grew to a young man of 16, and was totally in love with Amanda, Mr. White's daughter. Mr. White caught them walking home from school holding hands, as kids do, and he nearly beat his daughter and chased Steven. Mr. Sanchez was not happy. He confronted Mr. White who called him the S word. Fast forward 2 years later, as soon as the kids were 18 years old. They got married. Mr. White disowned his daughter. For 3 years, they did not speak. Then one day, he saw his granddaughter, who melted his heart. His wife had passed and he lived lonely and bitter, until that fateful day when a little girl made him see, the simple truth.

Mr. Sanchez and he never spoke about the day he used the S word to his face, but they both accepted a tenuous truce. To this day, Steven and Amanda are together and have 5 kids. Mr. White even babysits every once in a while, a proud grandpa, the oldest, is headed off to college - paid for by Mr. & Mrs. Sanchez. Yes, the little one who melted his heart went off to college. And now he smiles from across the way, over the chain link fence.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:


Racism has never been more prevalent than in today's society. The rhetoric spewed by the likes of Bill O'Rielly and Limbaugh continue to fan the flames of the ignorant "silent" majority.



Wrong on both counts. It's been much, much worse, and Limbaugh and O'Reilly spout exactly ZERO racism. But hey, if you have any evidence of said 'rhetoric', please do share.

Quote:



That people of color are fat, lazy, stupid and without any redeeming qualities is the catch-phrase of the day. We are all lumped into the "takers" category without so much as a how do you. Imaginer if we were to say that white folk are fat, lazy, stupid people who would steal the gold fillings out of your mouth when you're asleep. And that they worship Hitler and the Devil.

What would you say to that? Hurts doesn't it?




You mean fat, lazy and stupid like Honey Boo Boo's mama ?

But seriously, I don't know what you're going on about here. It sounds like you're getting 2nd or 3rd hand info on what others are allegedly saying, and then going off on false claims which were never said in the first place.


"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "


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Saturday, August 31, 2013 6:59 AM

WHOZIT


The title of this thread should be;

50 years after King, race baiting lives on

FYI, he liked to bang white women.

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Saturday, August 31, 2013 7:54 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Ngolela, who attends a private international school in Washington, wasn't fazed by the remark, he said, partly because she had no idea about the word's history as a racist stereotype for blacks. Chances are, her young classmates also didn't fully understand the power of their words.



Being an international school, the chance of it being American kids who called her a monkey are lessened, both because of the international nature of the student body, and because American parents who send their kids to international schools generally do so, in part, to help their kids adapt to multi-racial culture. I note that the article doesn't say.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, August 31, 2013 10:42 AM

BYTEMITE


Some family on my dad's side comes from the south. I have some second cousins who were disowned for marrying Latina women. Even after they had kids, the grandpa refused to see them because they were "half-bloods."

Old bitter guy with no one left, disowns his only family. My grandmother and the rest of us think that was just foolish. Racism hurts everyone, even the racists.

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Sunday, September 1, 2013 6:54 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Some family on my dad's side comes from the south. I have some second cousins who were disowned for marrying Latina women. Even after they had kids, the grandpa refused to see them because they were "half-bloods."

Old bitter guy with no one left, disowns his only family. My grandmother and the rest of us think that was just foolish. Racism hurts everyone, even the racists.



My family has a similar issue when one of my cousins came out as gay, and some of the older family members griped about it. The rest of us, including folks in their seventies, politely (being Southern) told them to shut up and deal. I have relatives who are Latino, Asian, and even (gasp!) Yankees, and if anyone has a problem, they keep it to themselves for fear of familial disapproval.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, September 2, 2013 4:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Rap, you actually complimented the first lady.........................
Turn in your "Rush is my Lover" button, lol

I kill me!


SGG




I can dislike her politics and loathe her America hating views, but still compliment her on how she looks, can't I ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, September 3, 2013 8:18 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Sort'a on the racism theme.

Quote:

NY case puts N-word use among blacks on trial

NEW YORK (AP) -- A federal jury has rejected the argument that use of the N-word among blacks can be a culturally acceptable term of love and endearment, deciding its use in the workplace is hostile and discriminatory no matter what.

Jurors last week awarded $250,000 in compensatory damages to a black employment agency worker who was the target of an N-word-laced rant by her black boss, and they return to a Manhattan federal court Tuesday to decide on punitive damages.

The case against Rob Carmona and the employment agency he founded, STRIVE East Harlem, gave legal airing to what some see as a complex double standard surrounding the word: It's a degrading slur when uttered by whites but can be used at times with impunity among blacks.

But 38-year-old Brandi Johnson told jurors that being black didn't make it any less hurtful to be the target of what her attorney called Carmona's "four-minute nigger tirade" about inappropriate workplace attire and unprofessional behavior.

Johnson, who taped the March 2012 remarks after her complaints about his verbal abuse were disregarded, said she fled to the restroom and cried for 45 minutes.

"I was offended. I was hurt. I felt degraded. I felt disrespected. I was embarrassed," Johnson testified.

In closing arguments, Johnson's attorney Marjorie M. Sharpe said Carmona's use of the word was intended to offend "and any evidence that defendants put forth to the contrary is simply ridiculous."

"When you use the word nigger to an African-American, no matter how many alternative definitions that you may try to substitute with the word nigger, that is no different than calling a Hispanic by the worst possible word you can call a Hispanic, calling a homosexual male the worst possible word that you can call a homosexual male," Sharpe told jurors.

But defense lawyers said the 61-year-old Carmona, a black man of Puerto Rican descent, had a much different experience with the word. Raised by a single mother in a New York City public housing project, he became addicted to heroin in his teens and broke it with the help of drug counselors who employed tough love and tough language.

Carmona went on to earn a master's degree from Columbia University before co-founding STRIVE in the 1980s. Now, most of STRIVE's employees are black women, defense attorney Diane Krebs told jurors in her opening statement.

"And Mr. Carmona is himself black, as you yourselves can see," Krebs said.

In his testimony, Carmona defended his use of the word, saying he used it with Johnson to convey that she was "too emotional, wrapped up in her, at least the negative aspects of human nature."

Then he explained that the word has "multiple contexts" in the black and Latino communities, sometimes indicating anger, sometimes love.

Carmona said he might put his arm around a longtime friend in the company of another and say: "This is my nigger for 30 years."

"That means my boy, I love him, or whatever," he said.

He was asked if he meant to indicate love when he called Johnson the word.

"Yes, I did," he responded.

The controversy is a blemish on STRIVE, which has been heralded for helping people with troubled backgrounds get into the workforce. Its employment model, which was described in a CBS' "60 Minutes" piece as "part boot camp, part group therapy," claims to have helped nearly 50,000 people find work since 1984.

Sharpe told jurors that STRIVE's tough-love program cannot excuse Carmona's behavior.

"Well, if calling a person a nigger and subjecting them to a hostile work environment is part of STRIVE's tough love, then STRIVE needs to be reminded that this type of behavior is illegal and cannot be tolerated," she said.



http://www.wtop.com/209/3439996/N-word-use-among-blacks-put-on-trial


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:48 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Wow, and Rush didn't even move his lips!

Now that's impressive!


Prize for first guffaw of the day goes to SGG...Shiny! ;o) And thanx for the story, most excellent. I appreciated both; have had a tough ten days (one of my dogs went through surgery). This is my first day back; I'd bookmarked FFF and lost it when things changed, just found it again, and boy, did I miss you guys! I see Rap is still spewing the usual idiocy, so no surprise there...

Brenda, my Jim's family comes from Idaho. His younger brother lived with us on and off for about twenty years, and I was shocked and amazed to hear come out of his mouth regarding Native Americans the same kind of filth I read about people saying about African Americans. I learned for the first time from him that that kind of mentality exists in Idaho. Here, we honor our local Miwok tribes, few as there are left of them, and all our Native American tribes run the only legal casinos in California. I realized from Curt that some people just seem to NEED to have an "other" to hate; I will never understand it, it sickens me, and tho' I know I'll not live to see it, I hope SOME DAY it lessens enough to the point where humans in this country can mostly get along.

There's a lot about my species that embarrasses me; all in all, I prefer my dogs...


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Wednesday, September 4, 2013 5:07 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, the only "good" thing I can say about any of that is that at least we've moved away from the old mentality of TV and movies, thankfully, to a more realistic viewpoint of what happened in our own Wild West. Or at least those of us who've been paying attention have...

As younger generations come along, and as we become ever more of a melting pot, it will keep going that direction, surely. It just HAS to (or maybe I just HAVE to believe it HAS to...).


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Wednesday, September 4, 2013 9:10 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I can't believe otherwise, actually, 'cuz it's all around us at work. We HAVE moved forward, haltingly, agonizingly, but we have. Younger generations of Republicans are starting to stand up and say "Hey, that's crazy!" even, and the younger generations of all kinds aren't as head up about same-sex marriage as the old folk...the world has improved where this stuff is concerned. Just never fast enough, and there are always still those who gain power and keep it from moving forward faster. Just the way our species operates, unfortunately.
Quote:

Young Republicans Want More Minority Candidates

A large majority of young Republicans think their party would do better in national elections if it nominated more minority and women candidates, according to Pew Research Center data released Friday, but older Republicans aren't so sure. Pew finds that 68 percent of young Republicans think the GOP should nominate more minorities to win more elections, and 64 percent think it would do better if it nominated more women. But older Republicans (aged 40 and up), are less convinced. Only 49 percent think nominating minorities would help, and 46 percent think nominating women would help.

The numbers illustrate the GOP's outreach problem and its members' conflicting ideas on what to do about it. At a summit in Mobile, Alabama at the end of July, young GOP-ers met to discuss the future of the party (and how it can do better in 2014 and 2016). Most think the GOP needs to tolerate a "range of views" on social issues like immigration and abortion. More at http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/08/young-republicans-want
-more-female-minority-candidates/68664/
]

Quote:

In Tennessee, Gay Marriage Has Young Doubting Republicans

In his intentionally wrinkled button-down shirt, with trimmed hair and eager poise, Sam Adkisson is the kind of young Republican his party needs.

Adkisson, 20, a rising junior at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee, says he believes in the Republican creed of limited government and lower taxes. At the same time, he says, his party is wrong to oppose same-sex marriage.

He is part of the shift toward near-majority support for the right of gays to marry in the U.S., a change propelled by adults ages 18 to 29 -- a group that outnumbers the Baby Boom generation -- according to polling at Harvard University’s Institute of Politics. The move will have political consequences, especially for a Republican Party that already has lost ground among Hispanics and women as the gay-marriage issue tests the loyalties of younger voters.

“For my generation, the ship has sailed,” Adkisson said in an interview. “With my generation especially, equality under the law, we are going to support it almost everywhere.”

Even in Tennessee, which banned gay marriage by constitutional amendment in 2006 with the support of 81 percent of voters, there are signs of change. Vanderbilt University released a poll May 12 showing 49 percent of those surveyed favored either same-sex marriage or civil unions. Among those under 30, support ran at 69 percent.

And young adults are driving the change. John Della Volpe, director of polling at Harvard’s Institute of Politics, said surveys of millenials -- people born between 1980 and 2000 -- showed they either favored recognizing same-sex marriage or said they didn’t care by a ratio of 3-to-1. More at http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-03/tennessee-gays-can-t-marry-ma
king-young-doubt-republicans.html
]

Quote:

What’s driving the rise in support for same-sex marriage?

It might be too much to say “young Republicans.” But they’re at least part of the story. The opinions of people over 35 have barely budged on the issue, but support for same-sex marriage has surged among younger voters.

There’s one group that definitely isn’t surprised by the rise in youth support -- the national Log Cabin Republicans.

“Anecdotally, you’re seeing young Republicans at the point where they’re either neutral on the issue or in support,” said Christian Berle, the groups deputy executive director.

Among respondents between 18 and 34, the numbers have changed far more dramatically. Support was only 49 percent in March of 2009, surged to 66 percent a year later, and now stands at 69 percent.

One way to view these tables: Among new voters turning 18 over the past two-to-three years, support for same-sex marriage has reached an all-time high. Meanwhile, the fact that the surge has come among Republicans, independents and young people suggests that a lot of young people who aren’t Democrats support same-sex marriage. More at http://www.capitolweekly.net/article.php?xid=1011ebh9qbe1lsq



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Thursday, October 31, 2013 12:58 AM

OONJERAH


New York protesters target Barneys after black shoppers claim bias
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/31/us-usa-newyork-barneys-macys
-idUSBRE99S0P920131031


"A small group of demonstrators shouting "no shop and frisk"
gathered at the Manhattan storefront of Barneys New York Inc
on Wednesday to express outrage over black customers' complaints
they were stopped by police after making luxury purchases."

This crappy treatment may warrent its own thread.
As usual, I'm too lazy to start one.

So ... they want to buy luxury items, do they? *tsk-tsk*

P.S.
If they will do it to Oprah, they'll do it to anyone!

====================== :>

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Thursday, October 31, 2013 6:15 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
P.S.
If they will do it to Oprah, they'll do it to anyone!



I didn't notice Oprah mentioned in the story.

Are you referring to her faked story about being denied service in a hand bag shoppe ?

Profiling is perfectly fine, btw. It's only being spun as negative by the media, and the non thinking public blindly laps that point of view up.

Get over it.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:29 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Profiling is perfectly fine, btw. It's only being spun as negative by the media, and the non thinking public blindly laps that point of view up.

Get over it.



That one goes into the file.

Judging people by their race is okay, says rappy. They should just "get over it".

But he's not racist, he keeps insisting... And he wonders why no one believes him.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, October 31, 2013 12:03 PM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb


Heredity is not probable cause.



Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Thursday, October 31, 2013 12:53 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Yah, my family and even my kindergarten teacher tried to shove that bolus on me when I was like FIVE, and I wasn't having none of it.
I thought it was stupid then, and it's even stupider now.

In case you didn't notice, you're on the INTERNET, yess ?
Can you SEE the people you're discussing with, do you even KNOW what race, color, creed or whatnot they are - and even if they tell you how would you even know its true, hmmmm ?

That someone would even much care in this day and age still boggles me, of all the reasons to dislike someone else, they can't find better ones than that ?

Fuckin morons.

-Frem

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Thursday, October 31, 2013 4:45 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Profiling is perfectly fine, btw. It's only being spun as negative by the media, and the non thinking public blindly laps that point of view up.

Get over it.



That one goes into the file.

Judging people by their race is okay, says rappy. They should just "get over it".

But he's not racist, he keeps insisting... And he wonders why no one believes him.




Again, you see ONLY that which you wish to see.

I simply said 'profiling'. YOU turned that into "judging people by their race" , which isn't what I said.

Profiling is nothing but a legitimate, statistical analysis method. It can be done poorly, with mal intent, or not. Just like pretty much anything in science.

Dude, my quote is RIGHT THERE! How do you frak up something so simple?

The agenda in you runs DEEP.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, October 31, 2013 4:53 PM

STORYMARK


Okay, anyone who believes him, raise your hand.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, October 31, 2013 5:18 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Okay, anyone who believes him, raise your hand.



Believe what ? That you're a moron ?

*Raises hand*

But hell, that's self evident.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:42 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup, that one's a keeper...right alongside the on he insists doesn't mean he hates "all" Muslims OR Islam:
Quote:

Raptor, 7/7/2013: "They're @ war with us, and are spiking the ball , whether we admit it or not.

(Nickerson: "The folks who built that center are not a war with us you moron")

Yeah, they are.

And while they likely didn't clap their hands with joy and toss candy into the air for the happy children on 9/11, they'll gladly take the opportunity to put a trophy mosque @ the site of the biggest Islamic victory vs the West since the fall of Constantinople.

Make no mistake. Islam seeks to bring the entire world under its dominion and bind us all. Some are going about it in a violent, more direct method, while others are content to take things a bit slower. The end result, however, is the same. http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=55910



Just to say, according to Mirriam Webster:
Quote:

Profiling: the act or practice of regarding particular people as more likely to commit crimes because of their appearance, race, etc.


We all "get" what Rap is trying to claim, that there's a difference between "profiling" and "racial profiling", ergo he's not racist. Nobody buys it. The article is about "BLACK customers' complaints
they were stopped by police after making luxury purchases", not about "customers' complaints...". I know he's love to ignore the fact that it was JUST Black customers who were profiled, but that's not the case.


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Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:54 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


To further clarify, from the article:
Quote:

The protest, organized by Brooklyn pastor Clinton Miller, coincided with an investigation by the state attorney general into security practices at Barneys and fellow retailer Macy's Inc.

Four black shoppers have said they were detained in separate incidents at the two stores and later released without charges, touching off the latest racial controversy....

In a deposition of former Macy's security guard Brenda Howard taken in June in connection with a lawsuit, the former guard said that security staffers at the department store are expected to make five shoplifting arrests a week.



And further,
Quote:

New York’s Attorney General has given department stores Barneys and Macy's M -0.62% until Friday to hand over their policies on stopping, detaining and questioning customers after a spate of headline-grabbing racism allegations.

State AG Eric Schneiderman’s decision to probe the two retailers follows a series of complaints about racial profiling in their Manhattan flagship stores, with African-American shoppers alleging they were unfairly questioned for credit card fraud after making pricey purchases.

- Trayon Christian, a 19-year-old Queens college student, is suing Barneys and the NYPD after being cuffed by plainclothes detectives at the luxury Fifth Avenue designer outpost, where he’d tried to buy a $350 Salvatore Ferragamo belt. His lawsuit, filed last Tuesday, claims a Barneys clerk called the cops on him in April, concerned that the young man’s purchase was fraudulent. Christian was able to produce ID at the precinct, and no charges were filed. Barneys disputes that any of their employees were involved, releasing a statement affirming the store’s “zero tolerance for any form of discrimination.”

- Kayla Phillips, a 21-year-old Brooklyn nursing student, came forward the day after Christian’s case made the news. She claims she was swarmed by four plainclothes cops in February after buying a $2,500 orange suede Céline purse at Barneys. She told the New York Daily News that she was surrounded and manhandled at a nearby subway station after spending her tax return on the luxe bag. She was never charged with a crime and intends to sue both the NYPD and Barneys. The day after her revelations hit the press, the store’s CEO Mark Lee offered his “sincere regret and deepest apologies” for the alleged incidents and announced Barneys’ retention of civil rights expert Michael Yaki, a San Francisco attorney, to lead a review of its policies.

- Actor Rob Brown of HBO’s Treme told the New York Daily News on Friday that he’d been a victim of racial discrimination at Macy’s in New York’s Herald Square back in June. He claims he was handcuffed and detained while trying on a pair of Prada shoes, having just bought a $1,350 Movado watch for his mother. He was released without charges after showing multiple forms of ID.

- Art Palmer, a 56-year-old Brooklyn fitness trainer, claims he was stopped by police after leaving Macy’s, having bought $320 worth of dress shirts and ties on his American Express and Macy’s platinum cards. He told the Daily News that the cops pursued him on his way to a nearby gym, telling him he’d disappeared from view on the store’s surveillance cameras. He produced receipts and no charges were made. http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2013/10/29/new-york-ag-to-bar
neys-macys-turn-over-shop-and-frisk-racial-profiling-policies-by-friday/



One might ask Rap what exactly about these people he thinks would make it "appropriate" to profile them, aside from their race, since there's no mention of any non-Black shoppers purchasing high-end items who were "profiled".


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Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:26 PM

OONJERAH


Quote Rappy: "Profiling is perfectly fine, btw.
... Get over it."


After careful rereading of the post, I think Rap is saying that it's OK
to profile people.

Not sure what the "Get over it" part means.

1. We should accept it?
2. We should not react to it?
3. It's not worth discussing?

BUT, if it happened to ME, I'd sure as hell react to it!


======================
A man's gotta know his hypocrisies.

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Friday, November 1, 2013 4:07 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


That's what fascinates me about this site, we are all here because of our love for Firefly, yet we argue, fuss and fight. We haven't got a clue about skin color or anything, and it doesn't matter, it shouldn't matter.

The assumptions people make, God I'm glad I was born a democrat (hey, how did that get in there?)

Thanks Frem.


SGG

quote]Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Yah, my family and even my kindergarten teacher tried to shove that bolus on me when I was like FIVE, and I wasn't having none of it.
I thought it was stupid then, and it's even stupider now.

In case you didn't notice, you're on the INTERNET, yess ?
Can you SEE the people you're discussing with, do you even KNOW what race, color, creed or whatnot they are - and even if they tell you how would you even know its true, hmmmm ?

That someone would even much care in this day and age still boggles me, of all the reasons to dislike someone else, they can't find better ones than that ?

Fuckin morons.

-Frem


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Friday, November 1, 2013 8:42 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

One might ask Rap what exactly about these people he thinks would make it "appropriate" to profile them, aside from their race, since there's no mention of any non-Black shoppers purchasing high-end items who were "profiled".




I didn't comment on " these people" , Niki. I was talking bout the topic of profiling, in general. Those doing the profiling very well could be racist, *OR* they could be following up on the problem of shop lifting , and taking a closer look at those who have ALREADY been caught in the past. If Gypsies have repeatedly caused problems, you look at Gypsies. If Amish folk are a problem, you focus more on the Amish.

Seriously, you folks really are getting stuck on stupid here.

Quote:


Not sure what the "Get over it" part means.

1. We should accept it?
2. We should not react to it?
3. It's not worth discussing?



Yes. Accept it.

React to the fact that there are those who are actually causing a problem, and to profiling is only a RESPONSE to the problem.

I suppose some still need to have it explained to them , though I'm not real sure why.





Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, November 1, 2013 9:29 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, Oonj. Rap is essentially "standing up for" profiling and totally ignoring that the topic of this thread is RACIAL profiling which has happened and is wrong. The discussion is about one thing, he's talking about something else and by inference saying that the people who complained about being profiled because of their race should "get over it". That's the only inference possible, since there's no indication the people involved were behaving in any way or appeared in any way to be worthy of profile, unless it was their skin color.

And I agree with what Frem said, as well; it boggles my mind how people still see color first (and sometimes only) nowadays, but then it always has. It's a sad mentality, but still exists.

Would be interesting if they publicize what the "criteria" are in those stores' policies and how, if at all, the people in question fit the criteria. That might tell us more...or give us an idea how much that "five arrests" thing might have come into it. What exactly do they look for in a place like Barney's or Macy's to indicate someone who should be detained...?


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Friday, November 1, 2013 10:29 AM

STORYMARK


Look at all the folks not buying rappy's bullshit.

Its okay to profile... but it's not about race, just because the profiling is based *entirely* on race (or faith - we cannot forget his hatred for Muslims).

Suuuuure. You just keep trying to sell that one.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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