REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

And now the snow job: Snowden delusional, says ex-CIA chief

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, July 12, 2013 13:45
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Friday, June 14, 2013 4:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

A former CIA chief of staff says U.S. officials are concerned that NSA leaker Edward Snowden could be “aiding our enemies” by handing over sensitive U.S. intelligence to the Chinese government.

Jeremy Bash told Politics Confidential that Snowden had access to “very sensitive information” in his job as a government contractor and could do “tremendous damage.” He said the government’s concern goes beyond the documents that were leaked - extending to the knowledge that Snowden still stores in his head.

“If a foreign government learned everything that was in Edward Snowden's brain, they would have a good window into the way we collect signals intelligence,” Bash said.

“He has information in his head, he's making threats, he's on the loose," Bash added. "We don't know what other documents he copied, and we don't know who else he's talking to."

While Bash said that Snowden is “very dangerous,” he also describes him as “delusional.”

Bash said some of Snowden’s allegations are almost certainly wrong, taking particular aim at his claim that he has the names of everyone in the U.S. intelligence community.

“I didn’t have access to that when I was working for a head of an agency,” Bash said of his time as the chief of staff to then-CIA Director Leon Panetta. “And the head of the agency didn’t have it. It's highly compartmented for exactly this reason, so that that information cannot fall into the hands of any one single individual.”

As for Snowden’s claim that he could intercept any ordinary American citizen’s emails, passwords, phone records and credit cards, Bash said it was “totally wrong.”

“It's almost impossible for me to contemplate that he could,” Bash said. “The requests have to be documented. You can't just turn on a switch and start surveilling any American that you want to. You've got to go through a lot of legal process.”

Hmmm... so Snowden is "delusional" because he didn't have the access to sensitive information as he portrayed, but he's "dangerous" because he DID have access to sensitive information??

In detail:

Quote:

taking particular aim at his claim that he has the names of everyone in the U.S. intelligence community. “I didn’t have access to that when I was working for a head of an agency,” Bash said of his time as the chief of staff to then-CIA Director Leon Panetta. “And the head of the agency didn’t have it. It's highly compartmented for exactly this reason, so that that information cannot fall into the hands of any one single individual.”
This wouldn't be the first time that upper managment didn't know how their underlings were accomplishing a job. Specifically, as a "sys admin" (systems administrator), Snowden may have been given access to ALL of the lists by Booz Allen as a matter of convenience.

Quote:

As for Snowden’s claim that he could intercept any ordinary American citizen’s emails, passwords, phone records and credit cards, Bash said it was “totally wrong.”
“It's almost impossible for me to contemplate that he could,” Bash said. “The requests have to be documented. You can't just turn on a switch and start surveilling any American that you want to. You've got to go through a lot of legal process.”

No, you don't "have" to go through a lot of legal process, you "should" go through a lot of legal process. It's the difference between "can I" and "may I". Again, as sys admin, Snowden may have been given far more access than upper managment realized, in order to make his job more convenient.

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Friday, June 14, 2013 4:24 AM

BYTEMITE


Ugh, this is so stupid. Of course he's telling the truth because he basically told everyone something that was already public information! How dumb do they think we are?!

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Friday, June 14, 2013 11:44 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


The other fun claims I've heard is that Snowden:

1. isn't a hero because everyone (except apparently the terrorists) already knew what the NSA was doing, so he revealed nothing new. And yet,

2. he should be tried for treason because he gave away this secret program (which everyone except the stupid old terrorists knew about).

I figure pretty much everyone in Congress and the news media DID know pretty much what was going on, in kind of a "Wink, wink, nudge, nudge" way. What Snowden did was force them to acknowledge it publicly.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, June 14, 2013 11:55 AM

WHOZIT


....meanwhile Daniel Ellsburg is a hero, and according to Oliver Stone's movie "Nixon", he used to have sex with his wife in front his kids. Maybe Snowden should do a sex tape?

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Friday, June 14, 2013 7:13 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




NSA records Sheia LeBuff bangin Megan Fox
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=55366


In Firefly the Alliance merged the US flag with the flag of Communist China

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Friday, June 14, 2013 7:27 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


Truth or no, I'm suspicious of his timing. Why now? What does he get out of this? So he's simply a patriot, that's it!


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

A former CIA chief of staff says U.S. officials are concerned that NSA leaker Edward Snowden could be “aiding our enemies” by handing over sensitive U.S. intelligence to the Chinese government.

Jeremy Bash told Politics Confidential that Snowden had access to “very sensitive information” in his job as a government contractor and could do “tremendous damage.” He said the government’s concern goes beyond the documents that were leaked - extending to the knowledge that Snowden still stores in his head.

“If a foreign government learned everything that was in Edward Snowden's brain, they would have a good window into the way we collect signals intelligence,” Bash said.

“He has information in his head, he's making threats, he's on the loose," Bash added. "We don't know what other documents he copied, and we don't know who else he's talking to."

While Bash said that Snowden is “very dangerous,” he also describes him as “delusional.”

Bash said some of Snowden’s allegations are almost certainly wrong, taking particular aim at his claim that he has the names of everyone in the U.S. intelligence community.

“I didn’t have access to that when I was working for a head of an agency,” Bash said of his time as the chief of staff to then-CIA Director Leon Panetta. “And the head of the agency didn’t have it. It's highly compartmented for exactly this reason, so that that information cannot fall into the hands of any one single individual.”

As for Snowden’s claim that he could intercept any ordinary American citizen’s emails, passwords, phone records and credit cards, Bash said it was “totally wrong.”

“It's almost impossible for me to contemplate that he could,” Bash said. “The requests have to be documented. You can't just turn on a switch and start surveilling any American that you want to. You've got to go through a lot of legal process.”

Hmmm... so Snowden is "delusional" because he didn't have the access to sensitive information as he portrayed, but he's "dangerous" because he DID have access to sensitive information??

In detail:

Quote:

taking particular aim at his claim that he has the names of everyone in the U.S. intelligence community. “I didn’t have access to that when I was working for a head of an agency,” Bash said of his time as the chief of staff to then-CIA Director Leon Panetta. “And the head of the agency didn’t have it. It's highly compartmented for exactly this reason, so that that information cannot fall into the hands of any one single individual.”
This wouldn't be the first time that upper managment didn't know how their underlings were accomplishing a job. Specifically, as a "sys admin" (systems administrator), Snowden may have been given access to ALL of the lists by Booz Allen as a matter of convenience.

Quote:

As for Snowden’s claim that he could intercept any ordinary American citizen’s emails, passwords, phone records and credit cards, Bash said it was “totally wrong.”
“It's almost impossible for me to contemplate that he could,” Bash said. “The requests have to be documented. You can't just turn on a switch and start surveilling any American that you want to. You've got to go through a lot of legal process.”

No, you don't "have" to go through a lot of legal process, you "should" go through a lot of legal process. It's the difference between "can I" and "may I". Again, as sys admin, Snowden may have been given far more access than upper managment realized, in order to make his job more convenient.


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Friday, June 14, 2013 7:29 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


This is like a bad episode of Chuck.


SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Ugh, this is so stupid. Of course he's telling the truth because he basically told everyone something that was already public information! How dumb do they think we are?!


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Saturday, June 15, 2013 6:06 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

I figure pretty much everyone in Congress and the news media DID know pretty much what was going on, in kind of a "Wink, wink, nudge, nudge" way. What Snowden did was force them to acknowledge it publicly.





Basically.

And he is a hero, because bringing it to the attention of the average goldfish long enough for some outrage is one hell of an effort. Most people don't bother reading so much as the Wikipedia article on various acts passed by congress. Even ones like the Patriot Act which, as I said, made what was leaked public information.

It is unbelievably pathetic and kind of SAD that what congress passes one day they think is GOVERNMENT SECRETS the next. That's a great system of democracy/representative government you guys have there.

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Saturday, June 15, 2013 3:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I always find it interesting to watch stories for contradictions and to see how they shift over time - for example, the new federal computer facility in Utah. WAAAaayy back when, when people were writing about it being installed they were calling it a data gathering and analysis center - even in the semi-official publication GCN (Government Computing News). After the NSA flap it's now being called a data storage facility. Yep, just a dusty warehouse, no activity, no spying, nothing to see here, move along.

They must think we’re really stupid.

And 'yanno, for the most part - we are. All this seems to get just a big shoulder shrug even by, and ESPECIALLY from, the 'small government' republicans.

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Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:19 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
They must think we’re really stupid.


Or not payin attention.

What made ME laugh my ass off was them digging up Snowdens entire freakin internet history to try to demonize him, showing all and sundry that he was....

What, a typically obnoxious, slightly self-absorbed young person ?
*snicker* oh yeah, what a traaagedy (/sarcasm), that'll learn em, and damn fools the lot in the meantime since *BY* doing so they tipped their hand at how much shit they really collect and how damn worthless the great majority of it is.

When you go lookin for a needle in a haystack, adding more hay is a stupid fucking idea any way you slice it, and anyone with even half a brain isn't going to USE forms of C3 the US Gov has access to, which unfortunately does include many bad actors and seems to exclude most of the so-called "intelligence" community these days, as after the mass exodus of personnel any kind of good at it in response to that shit they pulled on Valerie Plame, they really are a pack of just-following-orders dregs without an ounce of original thought in their heads, so there's that as well.
Add in ideology and our so-called-protectors amount to downright morons.

Of course, truth of it is, the powers that be don't consider the primary threat to them to be coming from a foreign actor or power, do they now ?
Nope, their real fear... is US, you know, the people they supposedly serve and protect (/sneer) - and I say about now is a good time to remind them WHY they fear us, by using what's left of the system to give em the old Frank Church treatment.

-Frem

PS. Levin is a dick, and I told him so.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/us/politics/proposed-measure-to-curb
-sexual-assault-in-military-to-be-cut-from-bill.html


Not gonna go over well with the constituents, that one, I can't for the life of me figure out what he was thinking there.

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Sunday, June 16, 2013 11:19 AM

BYTEMITE


Heard a guy today on the radio, you can probably guess which, discussing the current invasions of privacy and how the court orders are allowed because of Frank Church introducing "responses to stuff going on during vietnam." And how Frank Church was bad because he tied the hands of the intelligence community but isn't the current stuff just so awful and it was never what was intended under the Patriot Act?

1) It was totally what the Patriot Act intended and the provisions are right there to read in the damn thing.
2) Way spin the history about a guy who brought forward previous abuses from the intelligence agencies.
3) So guys, is hamstringing the intelligence agencies who want to invade our privacy good or bad? C'mon, this is an easy one.

In short:

I hate radio news commentators almost as much as politicians. -_-

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Friday, July 12, 2013 1:45 PM

OONJERAH



What are the odds of a Snowden getaway? - By Tom Foreman, CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/12/us/snowden-getaway-options/index.html

"... Indeed, even as Snowden appears to be pursuing an extension on
his stay in Russia or an asylum run to Latin America; even as he issues
a written statement saying, "I announce today my formal acceptance of
all offers of support or asylum," John Pike with GlobalSecurity.org
is not convinced that U.S. agents can stop him. ..."


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