REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Regarding the mentality about women

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, March 23, 2013 13:03
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1603
PAGE 1 of 1

Monday, March 18, 2013 8:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I read a couple of the responses in the thread about the boys were convicted of rape with a smile--a SAD smile, mind you. Because, well, I'll start here.

Jong wrote:
Quote:

For 50+ years I've been hearing that a woman is raped every few minutes somewhere in the United States. That's millions every year...millions. How can that not be a national emergency? How can this epidemic of rape go on for 50 years? Why are women so vulnerable? Why are so many men so sick and vile? Why are good men so apathetic? The whole thing is a national disgrace.


Kiki wrote:
Quote:

Just - wow. A whole subculture of rape involving police, DAs, coaches, parents, and teens. It boggles my mind, and makes me wonder where you grew up. And how many places are there like that.


What made me smile is that it has nothing to do with America per se, and certainly not "50+ years", it has to do with the entirety of human history. I just caught a movie called "Hysteria" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteria_(2011_film) ), and juxtaposed with those remarks is what caused me to smile. The movie is a comedy, but the subject most certainly is NOT! How many of you know about "Female Hysteria"? It is the perfect example of the fact that the world's mentality (I don't say "men's", because many women believed these asinine things as well) when it comes to women has ALWAYS been so screwed up it's unbelievable.

Try this on for size:
Quote:

Female Hysteria:

Female hysteria was a once-common medical diagnosis, made exclusively in women, which is today no longer recognized by modern medical authorities as a medical disorder. Its diagnosis and treatment were routine for many hundreds of years in Western Europe. Hysteria was widely discussed in the medical literature of the 19th century. Women considered to be suffering from it exhibited a wide array of symptoms including faintness, nervousness, sexual desire, insomnia, fluid retention, heaviness in abdomen, muscle spasm, shortness of breath, irritability, loss of appetite for food or sex, and "a tendency to cause trouble".

The history of the notion of hysteria can be traced to ancient times; in ancient Greece it was described in the gynecological treatises of the Hippocratic corpus, which date from the 5th and 4th centuries BC. Plato's dialogue Timaeus compares a woman's uterus to a living creature that wanders throughout a woman’s body, "blocking passages, obstructing breathing, and causing disease."[2] The concept of a pathological, wandering womb was later viewed as the source of the term hysteria,[2] which stems from the Greek cognate of uterus (hystera).

Another cause was thought to be the retention of female semen, thought to mingle with male semen during intercourse. This was believed to be stored in the womb. Hysteria was referred to as "the widows disease", since the female semen was believed to turn venomous if not released through regular climax or intercourse.Wiki


Think about that for a minute. It was a MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS, and women were regularly "treated" for it. There were several "treatments" for this "condition"; some involved
Quote:

...bland food, bed rest, seclusion, and sensory deprivation. Physicians noticed the number of women who complained of hysteria were disproportionately single, nuns, and unhappily married women. Another prescription was marriage for single women, intercourse if married, or vaginal massage to reach hysterical paroxysm (orgasm) as a last resort.

Yes, VAGINAL MASSAGE--by a DOCTOR, and it was widely practiced, believe it or not. Doctors "diddled" women as a medical treatment to make them more "compliant".

Here's the real kicker. In Victorian times, that oh-so-repressive era, the treatment for "incurable hysteria" was incarceration in an ASYLUM and HYSTERECTOMY!
Quote:

Although there were hysterical males, attributing the condition to the female nature fit the social model of women, and validated the medical integrity of psychiatry by providing a suitable diagnosis. For hysterical women and their families, the asylum offered a convenient and socially acceptable excuse for inappropriate, and potentially scandalous behaviour. Rather than being viewed as a bad and immoral woman, honour and reputation could be maintained by the diagnosis of a medical condition and commitment to an asylum.

At the London Asylum, Dr. R. Maurice Bucke adopted the popular Victorian idea that the female reproductive organs were connected to emotional and physical well-being, and were thus the most likely cause of mental illness. Combined with the accepted theory that curing the body would cure the mind, treatments for female insanity at the London Asylum were grounded in the belief that removal or correction of the afflicted organ would restore sanity. Gynaecological surgery, such as hysterectomies became a regular procedure until the end of the nineteenth century, when advances in mental health care began to turn against it. Despite criticism that referred to his procedures as "meddlesome" and the "mutilation of helpless lunatics," Dr. Bucke continued the practice at the London Asylum until his death in 1902. http://www.lib.uwo.ca/archives/virtualexhibits/londonasylum/hysteria.h
tml



The movie "Hysteria" chronicles a Victorian woman who was unconventional, worked among the poor, was loth to marry and quite vocal about the plight of women in society. She caused a scene and was put on trial for suffering from "incurable hyseria"--if convicted, she would have been put in jail and undergone a hysterectomy. They put it together with a doctor who was giving "hysteria treatments"--and she was quite vocal about what THOSE actually were, too, and eventually he agreed and came to her defense. The doctor was one of a team who invented the vibrator which, yes, WAS used by doctors until home use became available through batteries. The story is fiction, but the facts are real.
Quote:

... vaginal massage could take hours. After massage devices were invented, it became much easier for vaginal massage to obtain the intended result. Until vibrators became used in offices (or even the home since this was during a time when house calls were made), massage was done by hand and later by the use of water. The 1870's brought about the invention of the vibrator and soon doctors used it instead. By the 1890's, this invention was available for home usage and the number of women being treated in that manner at the physician's office drastically declined.

While physicians realized a connection between hysteria and an unhappy sex life, they remained distant enough for the connection between what they were doing and sex to keep this as a practice until fairly modern times (one source that began me on the road to writing about this idea said the 1950's).


The date is correct: The American Psychological Association officially dropped the term hysteria from the books in 1952.

The mentality persisted from Grecian times...how many thousands of years of thinking needed to change on just this ONE issue?
Quote:

A physician in 1859 claimed that a quarter of all women suffered from hysteria. One physician cataloged seventy-five pages of possible symptoms of hysteria and called the list incomplete;[4] almost any ailment could fit the diagnosis. Physicians thought that the stresses associated with modern life caused civilized women to be both more susceptible to nervous disorders and to develop faulty reproductive tracts.[5] In the United States, such disorders in women reaffirmed that the U.S. was on par with Europe; one American physician expressed pleasure that the country was ”catching up” to Europe in the prevalence of hysteria.[4]

It ain't OUR "national disgrace", by a long shot.
Quote:

The 2nd century Roman physician Galen's technique would be cited by physicians for centuries to come: "Following the remedies and arising from the touch of the genital organs required by the treatment, there followed twitchings accompanied at the same time by pain and pleasure after which she emitted turbid and abundant sperm. From that time on she was free of all the evil she felt.”

"Free of all the evil she felt", got that?

There's much, much more, but I think you get where I'm going. Given this sort of mentality regarding just this one aspect of women FROM ANCIENT GREECE FORWARD, it's almost amusing to decry it as something "rampant" in America or that the mentality which let the boys in question abuse a helpless girl is part of "suburbia" or one community. Attitudes toward women, what rights they have, how they should be treated, have come a long way, but still have a very, VERY long way to go in almost every human society.

Women have been seen throughout history as "less than", and everyone here SHOULD know it. Our politicians exhibit some of this mentality today, and what they think and say is quite acceptable to many. Yes, publicly we decry "rape", but when it comes to holding men accountable for it, you all know how that goes. In many, many places women are still regularly beaten and raped by their husbands, and the police do nothing if the husband has friends, is respected in the community, etc., etc. The mentality is THERE, it's not new, it's still quite prevalent, and even the seriousness of what these boys did--you KNOW there are many out there who think it's a big deal about nothing, the penalties were too harsh, it was just "boys being boys", it's the girl's fault for getting drunk--all the things people jumped to the conclusion I was saying, which I was not.

Mal4 made the most important comment in that thread, as far as I'm concerned. She wrote " I don't pity these boys. But I do want to understand them. I think it's important." Pity aside, this is a huge, widespread issue that goes way beyond what a couple of boys did to a girl; we DO need to understand it, EVERYTHING that went into it, but what we really need to do is go way beyond that and keep fighting to change the mentality that still pervades our world where women are concerned.

Rape and things like it won't go away in another 50 years, it will take eons to change the mentality, which is really all we can do. Hold people accountable for the absurdities they harbor about women and for the things they do and are encouraged to do by society. It's the thinking that has to change.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 18, 2013 10:20 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


I love that-- one of the symptoms was " A tendency to cause trouble." That one is really scientifically measurable, like a fever of 102 degrees or a pain in the lower back.

Take that as a symptom, you could lock up ( hospitalize) just about any woman anywhere, ever.

And, of course, they did. My wife, being a 70's Women's Libber, preached this sermon to me MANY MANY times.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 18, 2013 11:11 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


And yet, "women" today wear clothing that would incite their great-grandmothers to be the first to throw a stone and call them a witch......

Sometimes I think it's sad that I'm a civilized person. When I go to the DMV mid-summer and I have to stand for over an hour with a couple of 19 or so year girls in front of me wearing thongs right in front of me for over an hour, I tend to forget what my role in society "should" be.

Good luck to them. If they're smart and use their assets, they'll be able to secure at least for themselves what I have today. To be able to pay the bills on a minimum wage job when their tits are sagging and they got no business wearing those outfits outside of their own back yard.....


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 18, 2013 11:39 AM

AGENTROUKA


Niki,

how dare you post an interesting thread about women in human civilization when you know how uncomfortable it makes 6ix.

You're forcing him to be a troll and remind you that women consist of bodies that he looks at and that are also subject to aging. I mean, seriously, woman. Know your place. Talk about gardening or owning a house or something else he can relate to.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 18, 2013 11:44 AM

BYTEMITE


Hysteria is, regrettably, a familiar concept. As are the "remedies" for the condition.

It's interesting how the culture HAS changed oh so slightly, from the idea that women are so lecherous that they all secretly want to be raped, to men are lecherous and simply can't control themselves.

Ultimately both views enable the problem.

And, frankly, our society is obsessed. There is absolutely no reason that people should consider this body function any more important than popping tendons of the neck or fingers to relieve pressure in them, or that seeing humans in a state of undress should immediately provoke some kind of uncontrollable and irresistible reaction. There is a kind of desperation and gender warfare/resentment and dominance power-trip nonsense involved in all this.

Society has imbued the act with an undue importance that was never intended in nature - most animals only become aroused during the female estrus, with very few exceptions. Reproduction is something that an individual only has to do once if they want to perpetuate their genetic legacy and meet requirements for genetic survival, and that isn't even necessary for individual survival.

But then when individuals would prefer a different partner based on perceptions of genetic compatibility, people get all upset about it and plot revenge. Sometimes they even blame an entire gender for the faults of a few and want to punish all of them. Get over it, happens to most everyone else.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 18, 2013 12:21 PM

AGENTROUKA


Byte,

to be fair, sex is more complex than it is for even our closest relatives (I vote bonobo!) because we are also more complex. It's not just society that makes our relationships with each other multi-leveled and our emotions contradictory and conflict-prone. They are that way because we are capable of being that way. Because we are not INcapable of being that way.

While a lot of our gender-bullshit is entirely society-based, those same societies are also simply a product of our complex history. I'm very certain that our emotional range is not designed to be in balance with our biological needs. We're not designed to be happy, biologically. Evolution didn't make us perfect, it simply made us extremely good at surviving in large enough numbers, in many enough places. That's all. The mere fact that rape is an effective way of creating pregnancy is a testament to that.

Sex, done right, IS dang fantastic and it does trigger hormonal and emotional responses in many people far beyond "I have now copulated." If emotional messes weren't natural, we wouldn't have them.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 18, 2013 12:30 PM

BYTEMITE


Urg. Not fantastic. If it were fantastic it wouldn't be such a vector for disease and death.

Frankly none of it is technically consensual. Arguably there's the duress of natural selection involved, and the influence of hormones. For most of you, it probably doesn't even seem like a choice.

Not to say some forms of it aren't more completely and utterly wrong in both the sense of violence against free will and violence against genetic survival. The impulse to hurt someone that is desired is inherently deviant - not exactly a good approach for the desired end goal. Perverse is the term. Contradictory.

But all of it is terrible, and all of it is overly and unnecessarily emphasized by our society.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 18, 2013 12:34 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Niki,

how dare you post an interesting thread about women in human civilization when you know how uncomfortable it makes 6ix.

You're forcing him to be a troll and remind you that women consist of bodies that he looks at and that are also subject to aging. I mean, seriously, woman. Know your place. Talk about gardening or owning a house or something else he can relate to.





Yup, 6ix comes about *this far* from blaming the rape victim with his bullshit about what girls wear and how scandalous it is.

I wish I could say that surprises me that he thinks that way ( that if a woman is raped for wearing revealing or provocative clothing, it's her fault for making the man rape her by wearing that), but it really doesn't. At all.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 18, 2013 1:35 PM

BYTEMITE


I think there are times and places when say, a wall-street banker who has made his money cheating people, if someone were to steal from him, I wouldn't be very sympathetic. I would blame the victim in certain circumstances and maybe even say that they deserve it. Sometimes I'll even rant if I think someone's own stupidity lead to their misfortunes. I'm not a very nice person that way.

But rape is something else. No. The victim of rape is not to blame. By the basic nature of the crime, they can never be to blame.

And now that I have taken a nice long existential drink here and reminded myself about the sheer horror of everything in the world, I'm going to get the hell out of this thread.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 18, 2013 6:05 PM

FREMDFIRMA



It's all about demonization of people in order to deny thier personhood, their rights.

Before/during/concurrent with Hysteria was Drapetomania.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania

Which IMHO, when you think about it in *THAT* perspective, shines a whole new light on why I feel the way I do about so-called-conduct "disorders" among Youth.

Because it's the same fucking thing, with the same fucking excuses behind it, and they're no more valid now than they ever were.

Also, the constant assault on womens personhood and rights is a push to keep them on the back foot long enough to screw up Roe vs Wade and make abortion a felony - outside of a few "examples" they'd not so much prosecute it cause that ain't how this game works, they'd let em off with probation and such supposedly out of sympathy so long as they can slap the Felony mark of doom on em you see, cause that overturns the one right at the CORE of all this that the GOP wants gone from women.

THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

Ain't any specific right the GOP is after, it's that women HAVE rights, and the ability to enforce them, and all the rest is window dressing to that one single push, to remove that weapon from them and thus strip thier personhood and reduce them back to chattel status.

As a large part of my doings involves trying to pull Youth *out* of that pestilent niche in our society, the notion of tryin to push anyone back in offends me in a guns-blazing-rabid kinda fashion.

Oh, and should by some infinitesimal chance they do manage to pull that shit off, you KNOW they'll follow up by going after minorities the same damn way.

It's really about Power, in the end.

-F

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 18, 2013 7:06 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:


Yup, 6ix comes about *this far* from blaming the rape victim with his bullshit about what girls wear and how scandalous it is.

I wish I could say that surprises me that he thinks that way ( that if a woman is raped for wearing revealing or provocative clothing, it's her fault for making the man rape her by wearing that), but it really doesn't. At all.



Just like a dog in heat. Not in control or responsible for his actions. I wonder if someone follows him around with a pooper scooper.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 19, 2013 12:39 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:


Also, the constant assault on womens personhood and rights is a push to keep them on the back foot long enough to screw up Roe vs Wade and make abortion a felony - outside of a few "examples" they'd not so much prosecute it cause that ain't how this game works, they'd let em off with probation and such supposedly out of sympathy so long as they can slap the Felony mark of doom on em you see, cause that overturns the one right at the CORE of all this that the GOP wants gone from women.

THE RIGHT TO VOTE.
-F




Why fetal personhood bills don't matter:

A fetus isn’t a person, but that doesn’t really matter. I know that sounds crass, but from a constitutional point of view, it's the truth. What does matter is that a fetus isn’t a United States citizen. As we’ve seen and heard ad nauseum from the fringes of the conservative movement, only a person “naturally born” inside the United States or its territories is a citizen, and a fetus, even if it is a person, is a person who hasn’t been born yet, naturally or otherwise.

Some will argue that fetal personhood guarantees a fetus certain human rights. I counter that the fetus has no constitutional protections under the law and the Constitution of the United States, and that this isn’t a human rights issue, it's a constitutional issue dealing with what is legal under the United States Constitution. How can I say such a thing? Don’t we all have human rights? Well, not if you listen to conservatives, who made exactly that argument when they wanted to be legally able to torture people. “They aren’t citizens,” they said, “therefore they have no constitutional rights.”

Well, a fetus isn’t a citizen, even if you legally declare that the fetus is a person, so all your fetal personhood bills mean nothing at all. Unless you can show me that fetus’s papers proving it’s a United States citizen, of course; I’m told that’s the only way to be sure. I’m told that by people who want to be able to illegally search people they suspect aren’t citizens, so they can prove they aren’t citizens and then deport them. If these suspected illegals aren’t citizens, these conservatives say, then you haven’t violated their constitutional rights, because they don’t have any such things.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I like your thinking, whacker! ;o) Sadly, it won't work and wouldn't change anything even if it did, because it's the act of having to CARRY and then support that "non-citizen" which is the issue. But I like your thinking anyway.

Do non-citizens have a "right to life"?


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, March 22, 2013 10:57 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Good god.




-----

Disobedience is not an issue if obedience is not the goal.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, March 23, 2013 7:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


There's that mentality at work, in black and white, as it were.

We have a long, LONG ways to go yet, obviously. I assume many of heard about this one by now:
Quote:

SAN JOSE, Calif. -- A female developer was fired after tweeting about a group of men she said were making sexual comments at a computer programming conference, fueling an already vigorous debate about gender equality and culture in Silicon Valley.

Adria Richards wrote on her blog, butyoureagirl.com, that she was seated in a ballroom at the Santa Clara conference Sunday when the men behind her started talking about "big dongles."

A dongle is a device that plugs into a computer, but Richards tweeted that the men made the comment in a sexual way.

After hearing their remarks, Richards turned around, took a photo of two men and posted it on Twitter with their alleged comments.

Conference organizers said they were concerned by the tweet and quickly met with Richards and the men, who immediately apologized.

"We pulled all the individuals aside. We got all sides of the story. They said she was right, and they were very apologetic," said Jesse Noller, who chaired the conference, PyCon 2013, for people working on Python programming language.

Richards worked for SendGrid, a technology company with offices in Orange County and Colorado. CEO Jim Franklin wrote on the company's website that SendGrid agreed with Richards' right to report the incident to Pycon staff, but not the way she reported it.

"Her decision to tweet the comments and photographs of the people who made the comments crossed the line," Franklin wrote in a blog post on the site. "Publicly shaming the offenders - and bystanders - was not the appropriate way to handle the situation."

Franklin said Richards put the company's business in danger, divided the developer community and could no longer be effective at the company. More at http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/south_bay&id=9
037581
]
She didn't even "report" them; she tweeted PUBLICLY about something that was being said PUBLICLY.

On the other hand,
Quote:

One of the men in the photo Richards posted has also been let go from his job at San Francisco-based mobile game company PlayHaven.

"PlayHaven had an employee who was identified as making inappropriate comments at PyCon, and as a company that is dedicated to gender equality and values honorable behavior, we conducted a thorough investigation. The result of this investigation led to the unfortunate outcome of having to let this employee go," PlayHaven CEO Andy Yang said in a blog posting.


I find that wrong as well. If, as seems to be the case these days, questionable sexual jokes/comments/whatever are treated one of three ways, ignored completely or minimized, the person fired, or the person challenging it fired, do any of those actually IMPROVE the situation?

THE MEN APOLOGIZED. In my opinion, the incident happening, being made public, the men apologizing (and hopefully learning something) was all that ever need happen. I admit firing THE WOMAN incenses me most, and of course she's getting death threats and her ability to be hired elsewhere may well be compromised, while the identities of the two men are being withheld...

And, of course, the volume representing the mentality abounds:
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1296838!
/img/

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1296839!
/img/

(Links broken for spacing purposes)


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, March 23, 2013 7:46 AM

AGENTROUKA


Somehow I don't think I can approve of her decision to do this, though... She did go too far in posting their image online as her first response, and it wasn't really said publicly, it was a private conversation held in public which she overheard.

I think she was right to call attention to it the culture represented by those comments and voice complaints about it. Her twitter account was not the first place to do this. There were several steps to go before taking this all the way public.

That she has been suffering online bullying and even death threats, though, is utterly beyond the pale. Gaaaaaaah.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:47 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


God, I hate twitter. I don't think we're grown up enough as a species to have access to the technology we do.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:47 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


God, I hate twitter. I don't think we're grown up enough as a species to have access to the technology we do.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, March 23, 2013 1:03 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!






Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Sat, February 4, 2023 01:16 - 651 posts
Enjoying that "Green" energy yet?
Sat, February 4, 2023 01:10 - 5 posts
Balloon from China taking pictures of the set of 'Yellowstone'
Fri, February 3, 2023 20:41 - 3 posts
Unemployment Rate Facts
Fri, February 3, 2023 20:37 - 713 posts
Countdown Clock Until Vladimir Putins' Rule Ends
Fri, February 3, 2023 19:50 - 93 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Fri, February 3, 2023 17:50 - 2832 posts
Russian losses in Ukraine and now Russia
Fri, February 3, 2023 16:12 - 701 posts
Another Putin Disaster
Fri, February 3, 2023 14:44 - 1414 posts
A thread for Democrats Only
Fri, February 3, 2023 12:12 - 6626 posts
'Kyle did nothing wrong'? or the crimes of the Kenosha Shooter
Thu, February 2, 2023 23:51 - 250 posts
I'm surprised there's not an inflation thread yet
Thu, February 2, 2023 19:34 - 524 posts
Trudeau and Wilson-Raybould: The scandal that could unseat Canada's PM
Thu, February 2, 2023 13:43 - 38 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL