REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Biden says a shotgun will scare off intruders

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 06:49
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Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:42 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

If so, then I haven't been "backed into a corner" in what? Five or six years?




Oh, it's been much more recent than that. Is your mind going? You know this, and continue to play dumb.






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, February 27, 2013 11:42 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

This gets back to the "need" argument. Does anyone "need" an AR-15? Does anyone "need" a Porterhouse steak? Does anyone "need" a car that goes over 70mph? Does anyone "need" alcoholic drinks? Should all these things be banned, along with anything that might hurt someone?

Does anyone need Stinger missiles, RPGs, anthrax spores, nerve gas, hydrogen bombs...? Why ban some things that people may want Geezer, but not others? Reasonable, non-ideological people recognise that we have to draw the line somewhere and say which potentially dangerous items should be kept out of public hands. And the calculation, of course, is a trade off between how much benefit the item gives people, and how much harm it can potentially do them. It's less about freedom than you would like to think. Hence this discussion is a debate over how much benefit AR-15s give to people. We all know how much harm it can do.

Quote:

Given that there's several million AR-15 type weapons in the U.S., I'd say more than a FEW.

I meant a relative few, of course. What % of gun owners would reach for an AR-15 type weapon to confront a house-intruder do YOU think Geezer?

Quote:

Apparently a number of folks who oppose banning such weapons think so, else you wouldn't be having this conversation.

This assumes that people who buy AR-15s do so to protect themselves in their homes.

Quote:

And once again, ARs are generally lightweight, being made largely of aluminum and plastic

I don't recall you or anyone saying that in this thread before, so I don't really understand your exasperation. But ok, I'll take your word for it.

Quote:

If not, on what do you base your suspicion? The word of Joe Biden?

Well listening to you one would think that the AR-15 is the ultimate tool for home-defense. I have lingering suspicions otherwise (despite no personal experience to draw on) for a few reasons, including:

1) You haven't said that you would reach for that particular type of gun YOURSELF, in the situation I put to you - confronting a home invader at 3am. This makes me think that in your mind shotguns/handguns trump AR-15s in some way, that you refuse to actually come out and say, and probably still won't.
2) I haven't heard of many cases of homeowners confronting home-intruders with assault rifles - in news stories, or in film/TV. If they are relied upon to the extent you imply, I was honestly unaware.

I could go on. Basically I'm reading a lot between the lines, and wondering about the things you're NOT saying, including not answering questions put to you.

Quote:

I'm also kind of disturbed by your acceptance, if your assumptions were correct, of a 'negligible' increase in deaths if people didn't have AR-15 type weapons for protection.

I never said increase. Negligible can be zero, or negative. However assuming a number of people die because they were denied their weapon of choice under an assault weapons ban, and a shotgun/handgun wasn't enough to protect themselves... I think that number would be dwarfed by the number of FEWER people killed in wider gun violence, including mass shootings.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:09 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
I'm not saying that the AR is THE self-defense gun, but that it can be the proper choice for some people.


It all depends on the circumstances. Some guns are better then others in different situation or when used by people whose age, build, and (most importantly) experiance is a factor.

Remember Clint Eastwood pulling that old Korean era M1 on those guys in Gran Torino, then later a old 1911, then just his finger. In every one of those situations he used the weapon of choice to resolve the situation exactly the way he intended.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Wednesday, February 27, 2013 3:04 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

I'm also kind of disturbed by your acceptance, if your assumptions were correct, of a 'negligible' increase in deaths if people didn't have AR-15 type weapons for protection.Don't know how the innocent folks who would presumably be sacrificed for your greater good would feel about that.




You don't seem nearly so disturbed by your own acceptance of the increase in deaths due to people using AR-15-type weapons for mass shootings. Certainly you don't seem concerned enough to want to do anything about it, and you seem quite happy enough to continue sacrificing innocent folks for your "greater good".



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 27, 2013 3:05 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
I'm not saying that the AR is THE self-defense gun, but that it can be the proper choice for some people.


It all depends on the circumstances. Some guns are better then others in different situation or when used by people whose age, build, and (most importantly) experiance is a factor.

Remember Clint Eastwood pulling that old Korean era M1 on those guys in Gran Torino, then later a old 1911, then just his finger. In every one of those situations he used the weapon of choice to resolve the situation exactly the way he intended.





Gosh. If only real life came with a screenwriter. And a wizened old geriatric who talks to empty furniture...



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, February 28, 2013 6:00 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Does anyone need Stinger missiles, RPGs, anthrax spores, nerve gas, hydrogen bombs...? Why ban some things that people may want Geezer, but not others? Reasonable, non-ideological people recognise that we have to draw the line somewhere and say which potentially dangerous items should be kept out of public hands. And the calculation, of course, is a trade off between how much benefit the item gives people, and how much harm it can potentially do them. It's less about freedom than you would like to think. Hence this discussion is a debate over how much benefit AR-15s give to people. We all know how much harm it can do.



Apparently we don't.

You're more likely to be killed by a person wielding a knife, or a blunt object, or just their hands and feet, than to be killed by someone with ANY type of rifle.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jan/18/faceboo
k-posts/facebook-post-says-more-people-were-murdered-knive
/

And I'd propose that you're way more likely to die in an automobile accident, or as a result of eating too much fatty food (a Porterhouse comes to mind) or consuming too much alcohol.

Then again there's the fact that millions of folks who own AR-15 type rifles use them for legal recreational shooting and hunting without harming anyone else. Not thinking that folks use anthrax or Stinger missles for legal and harmless purposes much.

Quote:

Quote:

Given that there's several million AR-15 type weapons in the U.S., I'd say more than a FEW.

I meant a relative few, of course. What % of gun owners would reach for an AR-15 type weapon to confront a house-intruder do YOU think Geezer?


Hard to say. if there are 5 million folks who own AR-15 types and just 10% would reach for them in a defensive situation, thats half a million.

Quote:

Quote:

Apparently a number of folks who oppose banning such weapons think so, else you wouldn't be having this conversation.

This assumes that people who buy AR-15s do so to protect themselves in their homes.


Only if you base the discussion on the erroneous premises that AR-15s are inherently more dangerous to people than other weapons, which they aren't (see above); or that the only reason to own one is for self-defense, which ignores use in legal sport shooting.

Quote:

Quote:

If not, on what do you base your suspicion? The word of Joe Biden?

Well listening to you one would think that the AR-15 is the ultimate tool for home-defense. I have lingering suspicions otherwise (despite no personal experience to draw on) for a few reasons, including:

1) You haven't said that you would reach for that particular type of gun YOURSELF, in the situation I put to you - confronting a home invader at 3am. This makes me think that in your mind shotguns/handguns trump AR-15s in some way, that you refuse to actually come out and say, and probably still won't.



I'm pretty much like Mike in this regard. I have been shooting pistols in competition, and for recreation, for about 40 years. I owned pistols long before I even purchased a rifle, and am comfortable with them. When they were the only weapons in the house they were what I would have gone for in a self-defense situation, and still would. I also know where I can, and can't shoot in my house without worrying about overpenetration.

Also, like I told Mike, if I were advising a 5 foot, 100 pound woman who had no experience with firearms, I'd suggest that she consider an AR type rifle.

Quote:

2) I haven't heard of many cases of homeowners confronting home-intruders with assault rifles - in news stories, or in film/TV. If they are relied upon to the extent you imply, I was honestly unaware


I'd ask how often you hear or ANY instance of a homeowner confronting intruders with ANY types of firearms. Even in the few published, it's mostly "homeowner grabbed a gun" without specifying type. See here for examples. http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen.aspx

Quote:

Quote:

I'm also kind of disturbed by your acceptance, if your assumptions were correct, of a 'negligible' increase in deaths if people didn't have AR-15 type weapons for protection.

I never said increase.



"banning guns like the AR-15 would NOT lead to a sizeable increase in people being killed in their homes, and/or burglary."

Quote:

I think that number would be dwarfed by the number of FEWER people killed in wider gun violence, including mass shootings.


So are you going to have this same discussion about knives, blunt objects, and hands and feet, each of which are used to kill more people than rifles?

How about auto accidents, falls, and accidental poisoning, which each kill about 100 times as many folks as rifles yearly?


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, February 28, 2013 6:16 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
You don't seem nearly so disturbed by your own acceptance of the increase in deaths due to people using AR-15-type weapons for mass shootings. Certainly you don't seem concerned enough to want to do anything about it, and you seem quite happy enough to continue sacrificing innocent folks for your "greater good".



Well, aside from my proposals to increase prosecutions for straw purchases, ownership of guns by felons, and lying on NICS forms; get all state records of involuntary committments into the NICS database; encourage reporting of folks with possibly dangerous mental problems by counselers and other mental health professionals; increase efforts to reduce bullying in school; increase physical security of school buildings; etc.

I'm even up for the recent proposal to call for background checks of private sales (excepting witin families) - as long as the procedure isn't designed purposely to be too onerous to use.

So what's your suggestion?


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:32 AM

JAYNEZTOWN



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Wednesday, August 28, 2013 8:55 AM

BYTEMITE


Old but:

Quote:

Also, its likely illegal. Most Cities and towns have ordinances against things like 'Discharging a Firearm Within City Limits'.


:o????

Quote:

Many States also have the Castle Doctrine (which requires you to be inside your home and bars premptive action or pursuit).


Know that one at least...

Quote:

Self defense is a pretty good defense, but it requires an actual threat, not the percieved threat the Vice President suggested. In effect the Vice President has advised millions of Americans to commit a crime if they feel nervous.


*blink*

*blink blink blink*

*Florida*

*swearing*

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Saturday, November 27, 2021 6:50 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

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Sunday, July 23, 2023 5:58 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

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Monday, August 7, 2023 5:04 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Federal Court Rules on Biden's Pistol Brace Crackdown: 'Huge Win for Peaceable Gun Owners'
https://ijr.com/federal-court-rules-bidens-pistol-brace-crackdown/

FBI told Twitter Hunter Biden laptop was real on day of Post scoop, official says
https://nypost.com/2023/07/20/fbi-told-twitter-hunter-biden-laptop-was
-real-day-of-post-scoop-official-says
/

Hunter Biden Shouldn't Go to Prison for Violating an Arbitrary Gun Law
https://reason.com/2023/07/26/hunter-biden-shouldnt-go-to-prison-for-v
iolating-an-arbitrary-gun-law
/

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Tuesday, August 8, 2023 6:49 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Shotguns can scare off Will Smith Slaps?


Trotwood drug bust nets ‘substantial’ amount of fentanyl, heroin, meth; 2 arrested

https://www.daytondailynews.com/crime/trotwood-drug-bust-nets-substant
ial-amount-of-fentanyl-heroin-meth-2-arrested/4O2TZFWVKFH6BMLJFO22SBRNEI
/

US made Shotgun to reach Ukraine for fighting Putin / Ruskies ?

https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/273913211/us-tanks-to-reach-ukrain
e-in-september---politico




Wicki-wild wild Wickididdy-wicki-wild Wicki-wildy Wicki-wicki Weeeez goin straig to da Whi Wild West




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